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Jun 11, 2015 4:50 AM

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How exactly is a gender's dominance in anime (or any other fiction) sexist?
And why is that people call anime where men dominate sexist towards women, while I have yet to see one complaint about magical girls shows (or any other anime where women play bigger roles than guys) being sexist towards men? Isn't it, in a sense, being sexist yourself?
Jun 11, 2015 5:15 AM

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Keep senseless and moronic SJW culture out of anime pls...


Jun 11, 2015 10:21 AM

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What medium of entertainment doesn't have gender roles? This is far from an anime specific problem, its a societal one. Anyways whether they're bad or good is depended on your opinion, I'm also not a fan of shows that try too hard to do reverse gender roles, to me people should just be people in anime and have a multitude of differences from character to character.
EpicenterJun 11, 2015 11:21 AM
Jaywalker.
Jun 11, 2015 10:45 AM

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Epicenter said:
I'm also not a fan of shows that try too hard to do reverse gender roles
True. That's even contradictory to the notion of "equality."
Jun 11, 2015 12:05 PM
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Crimefridge said:
It sucks, but there's parts of American culture that sucks ass too. Worship corporations, fuck the poor, prison system, bad elections, war machine, religious control, etc...

arthurhahm said:

What do you mean by "American progressiveness" is really bugging you? I honestly don't understand that statement at all. So essentially you're saying that it's okay that there are extremely poor folks and extremely rich folks who continue to get richer (http://www.epi.org/publication/unequal-states/)? It's okay that Detroit is a ghost town and ordinary citizens are getting their water shut off? It's okay that people aren't being provided with fair and equal opportunity? It's okay that education is being cut? It's okay that we incarcerate communities rather than working to rehabilitate them? It's okay that the USA supports terrorism around the globe, most undeniably in the Gaza Strip (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/gaza-under-seige-naming-dead-2014710105846549528.html)? It's okay that America is a prison-industrial complex AND a military-industrial complex? It's okay that America exploits foreign labor and utilizes sweatshops around the globe? It's okay that the CIA tortures people without proper trial? It's okay that the United States is utterly falling apart as a country? Is that what you're trying to say? What, exactly, do you mean when you say "American progressiveness" is bugging you?

Please read the things I have actually said before you accuse me of being some brainwashed, ultra nationalistic, corporate pig. Numerous times have I talked about issues with the west too, which are included in Japan, as both are first world countries.
Jun 11, 2015 2:26 PM

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arthurhahm said:

Please read the things I have actually said before you accuse me of being some brainwashed, ultra nationalistic, corporate pig. Numerous times have I talked about issues with the west too, which are included in Japan, as both are first world countries.


Why did you quote me this way? It makes it look like you're responding to me for some reason...
How do people get to 2000 hours when I'm already this bored?
Jun 11, 2015 10:16 PM
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Nihilfist said:
ImmaMuggleYou said:
And yet your throwing the classic "SJW" insult, doesn't it get tiring?


Kind of like calling everyone who disagrees with you a racist or a sexist? Yeah, it does get tiring. I'll stop when you stop.


Did I call you that though? No I didn't so you should stop :)
Jun 11, 2015 10:17 PM

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Shrabster said:
Keep senseless and moronic SJW culture out of anime pls...
^or anything really
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕
Jun 11, 2015 10:18 PM
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Well the anime industry is sexist, its clear as day.
Jun 11, 2015 10:21 PM

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everyone is sexist
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕
Jun 11, 2015 10:21 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
Well the anime industry is sexist, its clear as day.


No, it's not. It's clear as day.

It's just people who forgot what sexism is and keep expanding the term beyond reason, calling everything they don't like sexism.
Jun 11, 2015 10:23 PM
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Nihilfist said:
ImmaMuggleYou said:
Well the anime industry is sexist, its clear as day.


And you're a social justice warrior. It's clear as day.


... This discussion goes no where when you're being immature like that and just label me as a SJW lol. Like you dont have anything better/productive to say? Name calling never goes anywhere lol. Anyways if you dont have anything productive to add to the topic at hand then there is nothing much for me to say to you
Jun 11, 2015 10:25 PM

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At least the other thread was nuked. Hopefully this can be the master thread for this shit. If people are gonna unironically use the word "patriarchy" it's best that it all stays in one place.

ImmaMuggleYou said:
Well the anime industry is sexist, its clear as day.


http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1392859&show=100#msg40297520
Jun 11, 2015 10:29 PM
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Well, it's obvious what anyone who wishes to change the anime industry has to do.
Learn Japanese or hire a translator and go to Japan and preach like a religious extremist would do and try to convince all of Japan sexism is wrong and hopefully that will work. Who knows? maybe someone might actually do it. We already have plenty extremists here in America.
Jun 11, 2015 10:31 PM

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I'm sure they'll get a good laugh out of that
☕ Truth be told, I'm quite proud of my house blend. To attain my flavor and fragrance, I use five different types of coffee beans. ☕
Jun 11, 2015 10:36 PM

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shounenotaku said:
Well, it's obvious what anyone who wishes to change the anime industry has to do.
Learn Japanese or hire a translator and go to Japan and preach like a religious extremist would do and try to convince all of Japan sexism is wrong and hopefully that will work. Who knows? maybe someone might actually do it. We already have plenty extremists here in America.


If they're successful maybe we'll see more guys beat the shit out of girls for no reason in anime. It's unfair female masochists get the short end of the stick. :( It's always guys in anime getting beat up for no reason. I wish someone would think of those poor, ignored female masochists. Hopefully a gallant white knight in shining armor goes over to Japan and convinces them that this is discriminatory, and in the future we see both genders beating each-other up for no reason, 50/50 split. :)
Jun 12, 2015 6:50 AM
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tsudecimo said:

How....

Do people just drop common sense when it comes to HxH?

Any other shounen thats popular with low female number would have been called sexist and shit. Whatever..


I was surprised to see people praise HxH for how it handles gender. HxH actually does it pretty poorly although its still a solid show which I enjoyed.
Jun 12, 2015 10:15 AM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
I was surprised to see people praise HxH for how it handles gender. HxH actually does it pretty poorly although its still a solid show which I enjoyed.

Examples please?
Jun 12, 2015 10:21 AM
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AttackOnTetris said:
ImmaMuggleYou said:
I was surprised to see people praise HxH for how it handles gender. HxH actually does it pretty poorly although its still a solid show which I enjoyed.

Examples please?


After talking about it with other people, I guess the main one would be how there are a lot less female hunters than male hunters. When I first started the show, I remember thinking how everyone attending the hunter exams were guys except for like 1-3 females? However, when female characters do appear in the show they often make up for the lack of females so thats a plus. I take back what I said, HxH doesn't do it poorly, although they could have more female representation
Jun 12, 2015 10:25 AM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
AttackOnTetris said:

Examples please?


After talking about it with other people, I guess the main one would be how there are a lot less female hunters than male hunters.


Ohhh, so the numbers must be equal for the genders to be handled properly and for it not to be sexist? total bs
Jun 12, 2015 10:53 AM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
After talking about it with other people, I guess the main one would be how there are a lot less female hunters than male hunters. When I first started the show, I remember thinking how everyone attending the hunter exams were guys except for like 1-3 females? However, when female characters do appear in the show they often make up for the lack of females so thats a plus. I take back what I said, HxH doesn't do it poorly, although they could have more female representation


How about the "possibility" that the mangaka simply has no interest in writing female characters? Or perhaps he just lacks the skill or confidence to write a wide variety of female characters? Those are things you should consider before anything else, really.

It's like calling an author racist for not depicting an equal amount of afro-american generals in a movie about generals in the 2nd WW as there are Caucasian ones. The very premise of the "criticism" would make no sense.

Please note "artistic freedom" as well. Any author could write as many characters of a gender as he/she wants. Calling them sexist because they don't follow some kind of "political correctness" while writing their fiction is ridiculous. I cannot stand when authors are forced to consider such things, escpacially if it interferes with what they want to write. Or do you support censoring?
Grey-ZoneJun 12, 2015 10:57 AM
Jun 12, 2015 11:00 AM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
AttackOnTetris said:

Examples please?


However, when female characters do appear in the show they often make up for the lack of females so thats a plus. I take back what I said, HxH doesn't do it poorly, although they could have more female representation


Exactly. Pakunoda, Shizuku, Bisky, Komugi and Machi are all really prominent female characters written no different from males as far as I can tell. But it could have been interesting if Kurapika was a girl though but not absolutely necessary.

The same is true for Jojo, it has relatively few females but just like HxH, it's hardly ever considered sexist because of the way the few females are handled. That's more important than numbers (like Imaishi pointed out).
AgafinJun 12, 2015 11:05 AM
Jun 12, 2015 11:04 AM

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Agafin said:
But it could have been interesting have if Kurapika was a girl.


+100000000
Jun 12, 2015 11:13 AM

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Tenshi_Shura said:
Agafin said:
But it could have been interesting have if Kurapika was a girl.


+100000000
Yeah ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Jun 12, 2015 11:15 AM

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this thread become funny because gintama doing Genderbender arc.
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on."
Jun 12, 2015 11:47 AM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
AttackOnTetris said:

Examples please?


After talking about it with other people, I guess the main one would be how there are a lot less female hunters than male hunters. When I first started the show, I remember thinking how everyone attending the hunter exams were guys except for like 1-3 females? However, when female characters do appear in the show they often make up for the lack of females so thats a plus. I take back what I said, HxH doesn't do it poorly, although they could have more female representation

Lol

They are all terrible except for Pakunda.
Jun 12, 2015 12:17 PM
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tsudecimo said:

They are all terrible except for Pakunda.


Hmm I think Bisky is decent. Palm is okay and the dog woman is pretty cool though. Haven't read the manga though.

EDIT: Yeah I was hoping Kurapika was a girl at first since he is one of the most interesting characters :)
Jun 12, 2015 12:19 PM
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Nihilfist said:

Do you seriously lack self-awareness this badly? You're projecting so hard it hurts. If you think that calling someone a SJW is immature and unproductive, how is calling someone a sexist or racist any god damn different?


Except I never called anyone here sexist or racist...?

Imaishi said:


Ohhh, so the numbers must be equal for the genders to be handled properly and for it not to be sexist? total bs


Numbers don't have to be equal, but its very lopsided? I personally thought that this sent a message that males are more capable than females to become hunter but thats just me. Otherwise, I think the show has some strong female characters when they do appear which helps.

Grey-Zone said:

How about the "possibility" that the mangaka simply has no interest in writing female characters? Or perhaps he just lacks the skill or confidence to write a wide variety of female characters? Those are things you should consider before anything else, really.

It's like calling an author racist for not depicting an equal amount of afro-american generals in a movie about generals in the 2nd WW as there are Caucasian ones. The very premise of the "criticism" would make no sense.

Please note "artistic freedom" as well. Any author could write as many characters of a gender as he/she wants. Calling them sexist because they don't follow some kind of "political correctness" while writing their fiction is ridiculous. I cannot stand when authors are forced to consider such things, escpacially if it interferes with what they want to write. Or do you support censoring?


Fair points. I'll just jump straight to the last point you made about artistic freedom. Yes the person can create whatever story they want, that doesn't mean there is no room for constructive criticism. Or are you saying I should shut up? I'm not saying HxH is horrible and should be banned, I'm simply critiquing it from a critical perspective. I enjoyed HxH I gave it a 9/10 after finishing the show, that doesn't mean I mindlessly agree with everything the show has to offer
ImmaMuggleYouJun 12, 2015 12:25 PM
Jun 12, 2015 12:39 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
Hmm I think Bisky is decent. Palm is okay and the dog woman is pretty cool though. Haven't read the manga though.

Oh yeah, I forgot Cheadle, hope we see more of her.
ImmaMuggleYou said:
I personally thought that this sent a message that males are more capable than females to become hunter but thats just me.

I guess that Bisky debunked this. She's among the best hunters in the show.
Jun 12, 2015 12:44 PM
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Agafin said:

I guess that Bisky debunked this. She's among the best hunters in the show and frankly better than most of the males in the show.


Hmm when it comes to important characters females characters have good representation. Bisky is one, and I like Pitou for the Chimera Arc despite that arc kinda being dragged out way too much. Too bad about the hiatus anyways :(
Jun 12, 2015 12:50 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
Agafin said:

I guess that Bisky debunked this. She's among the best hunters in the show and frankly better than most of the males in the show.


Hmm when it comes to important characters females characters have good representation. Bisky is one, and I like Pitou for the Chimera Arc despite that arc kinda being dragged out way too much. Too bad about the hiatus anyways :(


Pitou's gender isn't known. I agree with the rest though.
Jun 12, 2015 12:51 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
tsudecimo said:

They are all terrible except for Pakunda.


Hmm I think Bisky is decent. Palm is okay and the dog woman is pretty cool though. Haven't read the manga though.

EDIT: Yeah I was hoping Kurapika was a girl at first since he is one of the most interesting characters :)

Decent in what way? Her whole role in the show was teach gon and killua which wasnt particularly interesting, otherwise there is nothing to her character because thr the author didnt bother.

You mean the dog character that only became chariman because partison didnt want to (honestly dont remember how it haopened, I just remeber she played a passive role in the battle of wits between parinston and ging, and was handed the position not earned it)

I stand by my initial statement.
Jun 12, 2015 1:19 PM
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tsudecimo said:

Decent in what way? Her whole role in the show was teach gon and killua which wasnt particularly interesting, otherwise there is nothing to her character because thr the author didnt bother.

You mean the dog character that only became chariman because partison didnt want to (honestly dont remember how it haopened, I just remeber she played a passive role in the battle of wits between parinston and ging, and was handed the position not earned it)

I stand by my initial statement.


Bisky is a strong hunter who helped guide Gon and especially Killua. I think it was a strong moment when she told Killua that he should leave Gon if he can't change.

The Dog Character has potential for growth.

Anyways is your point that HxH doesn't have much strong female characters?
Jun 12, 2015 1:35 PM

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Gender roles are applied in daily life as well, it's just the way society views things.
Jun 12, 2015 1:44 PM
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Neesi said:
Gender roles are applied in daily life as well, it's just the way society views things.


True this is an issue that goes beyond anime of course
Jun 12, 2015 1:51 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
Neesi said:
Gender roles are applied in daily life as well, it's just the way society views things.


True this is an issue that goes beyond anime of course

Is it an issue though? To me, gender roles are often in place because it's usually the best way to do things, like say, a father does the work and a mother looks after the baby. It's when these gender roles are locked in place and we are unable to break the mold without criticism it becomes an issue.
Jun 12, 2015 2:42 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:

Anyways is your point that HxH doesn't have much strong female characters?

.-.

''They are all terrible except for Pakunda''
Jun 12, 2015 2:46 PM
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tsudecimo said:

''They are all terrible except for Pakunda''


Okay, although I think Bisky is a good character I can agree that HxH is too male dominated.
Jun 12, 2015 5:55 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
Okay, although I think Bisky is a good character I can agree that HxH is too male dominated.


Yea! We must absolutely not give a single damn about things like "artistic freedom"! Some "political correctness" is much more important!

Next on the list: Have as many black people as there are white people so it isn't racist. After that there must be an equal amount of characters who each are Atheists, Agnocists and those who are part of the greatest beliefs like Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hinduists, and maybe a few more. Then the whole series has to be re-written once some other religion like scientology (did I spell that right?) hands in a complain about not being included. There is NOTHING we wouldn't do for political correctness, right?


Excuse my sarcasm, but I couldn't hold myself back after reading the bolded text.


No seriously. Something "not being represented" and even more so "not being represented enough" is not an argument. It's simply DRAWING A LINE. You can say the author wrote something that you don't agree with or goes against some kind of moral standards or something if it's part of the content itself (but not the lack of such), however an author should never be forced to write things (when it comes to RAW story and characters) he doesn't want to. PEROID. Anything else would effectively be censoring. The story has to go through an editor anyway, so that is already the most "change" that can be accepted here.


With all that said, that is only applies if you critisize the work itself. It's a different matter if you talk about about your own subjective, personal enjoyment. In that case you are free to say what you dislike as much as you want, as long as you clearly seperate that from "criticism". Because if the content itself does not suit you, you may have to rethink if you are part of the target audience in the first place.
Grey-ZoneJun 12, 2015 6:15 PM
Jun 12, 2015 5:57 PM

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Grey-Zone said:
ImmaMuggleYou said:
Okay, although I think Bisky is a good character I can agree that HxH is too male dominated.


Yea! We must absolutely not give a single damn about things like "artistic freedom"! Some "political correctness" is much more important!


It's just so wrong. This domination. There are MORE of them, that means they are SUPERIOR XD

I demand magical girl anime to have just as many magical boys. Why are the girls more capable to be magical? That's so unfair. This misandry. Terrible.

NO TO SEXISM.
Jun 12, 2015 7:09 PM
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Hmm then I'll go with what my personal taste are in animes and stories in general. I like to see good quality characters for both males and females. HxH's creator doesn't need to do anything by what I'm saying, he can do what ever he pleases with his creation. I'm simply saying what my personal tastes are in when it comes to story telling. Thus I am saying what I think would personally improve HxH as a show which you can agree/disagree with and thats fine :)
Jun 12, 2015 8:20 PM

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ImmaMuggleYou said:
Hmm then I'll go with what my personal taste are in animes and stories in general. I like to see good quality characters for both males and females. HxH's creator doesn't need to do anything by what I'm saying, he can do what ever he pleases with his creation. I'm simply saying what my personal tastes are in when it comes to story telling. Thus I am saying what I think would personally improve HxH as a show which you can agree/disagree with and thats fine :)

I have a little question then. Is your problem in HxH sexism or the lack of female characters (or maybe you consider the latter as part of the former)? Because it seems like that's not what you mean.
Jun 12, 2015 9:09 PM

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Sorry to change the subject from hxh (is it really necessary to criticize hxh in terms of sexism?) but I agree there is a lot of blatant sexism even in modern anime. I think I'm pretty open-minded, I enjoy clever gore and violence, Shigurui, Berserk, Tarantino etc but even I find a lot of the stuff in today's anime offensive.

Two recent examples that come to mind:
That girl in Btooom who kept insisting every episode that she'd "rather die pure" than be raped. Only silly, shallow men would ever come up with such an idea. it was offensive and intolerable, and I dropped the show at ep 3.

That girl in Gantz in ep 1 or 2 who appeared in the room naked with her wrists slit only to be ogled by a bunch of men and eaten out by a dog a few minutes later. This level of sexual objectification is just depressing. I couldn't bear to watch the show a second longer and immediately dropped it.
Jun 12, 2015 9:27 PM

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Imaishi said:
Grey-Zone said:


Yea! We must absolutely not give a single damn about things like "artistic freedom"! Some "political correctness" is much more important!


It's just so wrong. This domination. There are MORE of them, that means they are SUPERIOR XD

I demand magical girl anime to have just as many magical boys. Why are the girls more capable to be magical? That's so unfair. This misandry. Terrible.

NO TO SEXISM.


Then, all the males in mahou shoujo anime would be like Ayumu Aikawa from kore wa zombie? That actually sounds like an improvement!
Jun 12, 2015 9:28 PM

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hanamichi1031 said:
Two recent examples that come to mind:
That girl in Btooom who kept insisting every episode that she'd "rather die pure" than be raped. Only silly, shallow men would ever come up with such an idea. it was offensive and intolerable, and I dropped the show at ep 3.

That girl in Gantz in ep 1 or 2 who appeared in the room naked with her wrists slit only to be ogled by a bunch of men and eaten out by a dog a few minutes later. This level of sexual objectification is just depressing. I couldn't bear to watch the show a second longer and immediately dropped it.


The first one is really dumb and sexist.

But the second one (I haven't watched Gantz and don't know the context so take this with a grain of salt) seems plot revelant? Except if it was played for shock value, that scene imo just tries to show that those dudes are assholes (and probably sexist) but in no way does it make the series or author sexist, at least not anymore than writing a psychopath makes an author one.
Jun 12, 2015 10:08 PM

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Agafin said:
hanamichi1031 said:
Two recent examples that come to mind:
That girl in Btooom who kept insisting every episode that she'd "rather die pure" than be raped. Only silly, shallow men would ever come up with such an idea. it was offensive and intolerable, and I dropped the show at ep 3.

That girl in Gantz in ep 1 or 2 who appeared in the room naked with her wrists slit only to be ogled by a bunch of men and eaten out by a dog a few minutes later. This level of sexual objectification is just depressing. I couldn't bear to watch the show a second longer and immediately dropped it.


The first one is really dumb and sexist.

But the second one (I haven't watched Gantz and don't know the context so take this with a grain of salt) seems plot revelant? Except if it was played for shock value, that scene imo just tries to show that those dudes are assholes (and probably sexist) but in no way does it make the series or author sexist, at least not anymore than writing a psychopath makes an author one.


Since I didn't watch the whole show I can't say for sure either but a lot of the violence and nudity in that show seemed really gratuitous, and this is coming from someone who has no problem with guts spilling all over the place. I was disgusted at the lack of sympathy for this character who'd just killed herself, not just from the men in the room (including the two male protagonists btw) but from the author who gave her no personality or special attributes besides being weak and naked. And a dog licking a (giggling) naked girl's vag minutes after she's slitted her wrists, come on what could be more gratuitous and tasteless than that.

Great favorites btw, I love rose of versailles too.
Jun 12, 2015 10:24 PM

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Why do idol and moe/ecchi shows have so many girls?
Where are all the hot, cute guys who can sing and dance?

Feminists are ruining the world.
Jun 12, 2015 10:41 PM
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It's one of the reasons I would like to visit Japan. I realize that anime is by no means a way to learn about Japan, but media generally will portray and mimic the culture and values of it's country of origin. Otherwise, it wouldn't be relatable or popular with the audience it's intended for. I want to experience the culture of Japan firsthand because, from what I can see, the gender roles do seem to be more defined within society than where I live An example being that almost all girls in anime wear skirts, even in winter, but that isn't really a common thing where I live.

That being said, I watched an insightful anime earlier this year that directly addresses gender role issues through the struggles of a couple of transgender kids going through puberty. It's called Hourou Musuko; its English title is Wandering Son.
Jun 12, 2015 11:04 PM

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Fundorable said:
It's one of the reasons I would like to visit Japan. I realize that anime is by no means a way to learn about Japan, but media generally will portray and mimic the culture and values of it's country of origin. Otherwise, it wouldn't be relatable or popular with the audience it's intended for. I want to experience the culture of Japan firsthand because, from what I can see, the gender roles do seem to be more defined within society than where I live An example being that almost all girls in anime wear skirts, even in winter, but that isn't really a common thing where I live.

That being said, I watched an insightful anime earlier this year that directly addresses gender role issues through the struggles of a couple of transgender kids going through puberty. It's called Hourou Musuko; its English title is Wandering Son.


I'm Japanese, living in Tokyo, and no it definitely isn't uncommon to see girls in short skirts in the middle of winter. In Japan we would refer to such efforts as "joshi-ryoku" a popular modern term which literally translated means "girl power" but ironically is used to mean "girl's efforts to attract or be attractive to men". I think this idea is hilarious and so Japanese. Not just the men but women here have skewed notions of feminism, it's a very interesting subject to explore.
Jun 12, 2015 11:25 PM
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hanamichi1031 said:
Fundorable said:
It's one of the reasons I would like to visit Japan. I realize that anime is by no means a way to learn about Japan, but media generally will portray and mimic the culture and values of it's country of origin. Otherwise, it wouldn't be relatable or popular with the audience it's intended for. I want to experience the culture of Japan firsthand because, from what I can see, the gender roles do seem to be more defined within society than where I live An example being that almost all girls in anime wear skirts, even in winter, but that isn't really a common thing where I live.

That being said, I watched an insightful anime earlier this year that directly addresses gender role issues through the struggles of a couple of transgender kids going through puberty. It's called Hourou Musuko; its English title is Wandering Son.


I'm Japanese, living in Tokyo, and no it definitely isn't uncommon to see girls in short skirts in the middle of winter. In Japan we would refer to such efforts as "joshi-ryoku" a popular modern term which literally translated means "girl power" but ironically is used to mean "girl's efforts to attract or be attractive to men". I think this idea is hilarious and so Japanese. Not just the men but women here have skewed notions of feminism, it's a very interesting subject to explore.

That's so interesting. The various ways feminism is expressed in various countries, as well as within a single country, can get fascinatingly weird.
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