| There is a sentence in 21:37 i didn't understand it.. Emiya said to Archer : "Just because you are correct doesn't mean that you are Right" Can anybody explains ..؟؟ |
snowboyMay 24, 2015 6:42 AM
| "People die if they are killed" - Emiya Shirou |
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| Basically: Insertanamehere said: Correct in the normal sense of the term. Right in the moral sense. |
| Because the archer class really is made up of archers! |
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Praland said: Because the archer class really is made up of archers! ...or so she thought... |
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| It means Archer doesn't use arrows all the time. |
| Isayama Hajime should be awarded The Manga with The Highest Inconsistencies of Characters' Appearances. He keeps performing multiple plastic surgeries on those Shingeki No Kyojin characters in a SINGLE chapter. Yes, I've read up to the latest chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin manga. Forced myself to read through the kidsketching chapters after the anime's ended. At least from now on, I only have to go through the hell once a month. Patiently awaiting SNK TV/movie/OVA anime-sequel. The 2015 SNK live-action movie would probably suck. |
mew said: The great part is that Shirou didn’t actually use different words for “correct” and “right” lol Literally he said, “Your correctness is only correct.” Which would also be bad sounding in English, but the gist is “What you say is correct but not just,” or something like that. |
| "Just because you are correct doesn't mean that you are Right" logically speaking he is correct. morally speaking he isnt right. "correct" implies an absolute "right" is more of a concept" "correct" is more of the thought process of a machine. "right" is the harder decision, "right" is entailing that you should at least try regardless if ultimately the end result is truly unreachable. "vash the stampede vs knives" |
| yes archer is right that emiya shirou's ideals are fake, impossible and hypocritical but it doesn't mean that such a path is meaningless and not worth pursuing. |
| all other archers pale in comparison. |
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| A guy posted the answer in the episode discussion thread. Basically, correct is the logical thing to do- a very objective feature for many, especially from a neutral standpoint. But the right thing is something highly subjective, and for Shirou it is becoming a hero of justice and trying to do it better than Archer. |
Kittenpotpie said: [img]http://i.imgur.com/Jnxa5hB.png[/ img] That difference in graphics and lighting...based ufo~ |
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nsa23x said: Which doesn't make sense, because Shirou doesn't use two different words for correct and right.A guy posted the answer in the episode discussion thread. Basically, correct is the logical thing to do- a very objective feature for many, especially from a neutral standpoint. But the right thing is something highly subjective, and for Shirou it is becoming a hero of justice and trying to do it better than Archer. |
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| Jaywalker. |
| At your school you saw a $1 and $100, what would you do? A. Get the $1. B. Get the $100. Correct Answer : Pick up both. Right Answer : Give it to teacher so they can return it to the owner. |
CapsuleCore said: nsa23x said: Which doesn't make sense, because Shirou doesn't use two different words for correct and right.A guy posted the answer in the episode discussion thread. Basically, correct is the logical thing to do- a very objective feature for many, especially from a neutral standpoint. But the right thing is something highly subjective, and for Shirou it is becoming a hero of justice and trying to do it better than Archer. Don't know about that as I just read off of the subtitles. But that is the main point- correct may seem like the best thing to do but the right thing to do will vary for different people. |
| You know whats funny, the subs i watched dint said that. The subs i watched said "The path you followed consisted of being correct, i dont need that" Of course, it was a diferent language (spanish) so i could have missed it, but i really dint saw him saying those line anywhere in the subs i watched. |
| no |
Epicenter said: Lol. Pretty accurate. |
| In other words, "You may be right, but you aren't right." |
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donmc987654 said: At your school you saw a $1 and $100, what would you do? A. Get the $1. B. Get the $100. Correct Answer : Pick up both. Right Answer : Give it to teacher so they can return it to the owner. (Trollface, though very possible): Please, the teacher would cop the money and the subject would never come up again. Wrong answer. |
| Jaywalker. |
OneTrueEmiya said: Kittenpotpie said: [img]http://i.imgur.com/Jnxa5hB.png[/ img] That difference in graphics and lighting...based ufo~ based ufo? where's my caladbolg, durandal and long sword? why am i casting UBW for scenery? |
| all other archers pale in comparison. |
Epicenter said: that's pretty much what happened to archer time and time again, though he wasnt mad because at tIME he did the right thing.donmc987654 said: At your school you saw a $1 and $100, what would you do? A. Get the $1. B. Get the $100. Correct Answer : Pick up both. Right Answer : Give it to teacher so they can return it to the owner. (Trollface, though very possible): Please, the teacher would cop the money and the subject would never come up again. Wrong answer. |
MostRealArcher said: would have been neat of they started picking up swords and clashing with them.OneTrueEmiya said: That difference in graphics and lighting...based ufo~ based ufo? where's my caladbolg, durandal and long sword? why am i casting UBW for scenery? |
MostRealArcher said: OneTrueEmiya said: That difference in graphics and lighting...based ufo~ based ufo? where's my caladbolg, durandal and long sword? why am i casting UBW for scenery? There's a big chance they're saving all of this for the next episode. |
Maloghurst said: MostRealArcher said: would have been neat of they started picking up swords and clashing with them.based ufo? where's my caladbolg, durandal and long sword? why am i casting UBW for scenery? Probably next ep if they're ever going to do that. Shirou The Caladbolg/Durandal in the VN were used once and then discarded by Archer, which is quite wasteful like UBW in the anime. I'd rather UBW than the swords tbh, since it's cooler, and the anime runs on rule of cool anyway. |
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Maloghurst said: Epicenter said: that's pretty much what happened to archer time and time again, though he wasnt mad because at tIME he did the right thing.(Trollface, though very possible): Please, the teacher would cop the money and the subject would never come up again. Wrong answer. Damn Taiga, always taking advantage of him, should of stopped giving her the money he found and it would of all been avoided. |
| Jaywalker. |
OneTrueEmiya said: Kittenpotpie said: [img]http://i.imgur.com/Jnxa5hB.png[/ img] That difference in graphics and lighting...based ufo~ DEEN Shirou looked like such a fool no offence, Emiya =P |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I thought this was pretty clear. Most of the things Archer said are facts, but that doesn't make Shirou's decision - to fight for what he believes in - wrong. Needless to say, the ones to blame here are the translators, who did a terrible job with that sentence. But the message is still easy to understand given the context. |
Mickdrew said: OneTrueEmiya said: That difference in graphics and lighting...based ufo~ DEEN Shirou looked like such a fool no offence, Emiya =P none taken, since that's totally not me :D For all the faults Ufo's adaptation may have, I will be eternally grateful that they made Shirou look like Shirou~ |
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FlamepriesT said: I thought this was pretty clear. Most of the things Archer said are facts, but that doesn't make Shirou's decision - to fight for what he believes in - wrong. Needless to say, the ones to blame here are the translators, who did a terrible job with that sentence. But the message is still easy to understand given the context. (Back to serious.) I don't think it's needless to say it's the translators fault, even you said you thought it was pretty clear. |
| Jaywalker. |
Epicenter said: FlamepriesT said: I thought this was pretty clear. Most of the things Archer said are facts, but that doesn't make Shirou's decision - to fight for what he believes in - wrong. Needless to say, the ones to blame here are the translators, who did a terrible job with that sentence. But the message is still easy to understand given the context. (Back to serious.) I don't think it's needless to say it's the translators fault, even you said you thought it was pretty clear. I honestly don't trust the translators, after they thought "I am the bone of my sword/My body is made of blades" = "Steel is my body and fire is my blood/Iron is my body and glass is my heart" |
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OneTrueEmiya said: Epicenter said: (Back to serious.) I don't think it's needless to say it's the translators fault, even you said you thought it was pretty clear. I honestly don't trust the translators, after they thought "I am the bone of my sword/My body is made of blades" = "Steel is my body and fire is my blood/Iron is my body and glass is my heart" Lol WTH, I don't remember anything about glass is my heart, and I'd remember something like that for sure, though perhaps whatever translation I watched fixed it. Regardless, the correct and right thing was still understandable if you thought about it. |
| Jaywalker. |
Maloghurst said: ]would have been neat of they started picking up swords and clashing with them. Archer: hey, that's my thing Shirou: your things are my things! OneTrueEmiya said: Probably next ep if they're ever going to do that. Shirou The Caladbolg/Durandal in the VN were used once and then discarded by Archer, which is quite wasteful like UBW in the anime. I'd rather UBW than the swords tbh, since it's cooler, and the anime runs on rule of cool anyway. idk about the long swords since shirou projected K & B again after "my body is made of swords" when only kanshou was suposse to regain it's image, but,who knows it's ufo. |
| all other archers pale in comparison. |
Epicenter said: OneTrueEmiya said: I honestly don't trust the translators, after they thought "I am the bone of my sword/My body is made of blades" = "Steel is my body and fire is my blood/Iron is my body and glass is my heart" Lol WTH, I don't remember anything about glass is my heart, and I'd remember something like that for sure, though perhaps whatever translation I watched fixed it. Regardless, the correct and right thing was still understandable if you thought about it. The "Body is made of blades/Glass is my heart" is the Japanese version of the chant. I think you saw "Steel is my body" - Archer says 'you wouldn't-!", then Shirou says "and fire is my blood". It should be "I am the bone of my sword", which is the first line of Emiya/EMIYA's chants. |
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OneTrueEmiya said: Epicenter said: Lol WTH, I don't remember anything about glass is my heart, and I'd remember something like that for sure, though perhaps whatever translation I watched fixed it. Regardless, the correct and right thing was still understandable if you thought about it. The "Body is made of blades/Glass is my heart" is the Japanese version of the chant. I think you saw "Steel is my body" - Archer says 'you wouldn't-!", then Shirou says "and fire is my blood". It should be "I am the bone of my sword", which is the first line of Emiya/EMIYA's chants. Ah, I see. Oh well, anything sounds cooler than glass is my heart. |
| Jaywalker. |
| The original text was "omae no tadashisa wa tada tadashii dake no mono da" "sonna mono watashi wa iranai" "お前の正しさはただ正しいだけのものだ。そんなもの、私は要らない" Literal Translation: Your "correctness" only means that you're "correct", nothing more. I don't need anything of that sort. It was not stated that he felt that Archer was morally wrong. He merely acknowledged the fact that Archer was right, but had no need to be right. Therefore I would disagree with the translation "Just because you're correct doesn't mean you're right". Logic and Morality aren't even relevant. If you study Philosophy, you'll know that that there is, in fact, a missing implicit conclusion. This means that it either has to be inferred, or can be found through anaphoric or cataphoric referencing. Hence My Translation/Inference: You are correct/right, but I dont give a damn. The most accurate representation would be Epicenter's meme. |
simbeeMay 23, 2015 11:31 PM
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| English: I am the bone of my sword Steel is my body and fire is my blood I have created over a thousand blades Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life Have withstood pain to create many weapons Yet, those hands will never hold anything So as I pray, unlimited blade works. ruby text or literal English: His body is made out of swords His blood is of iron and his heart of glass He survived through countless battles Not even once retreating Not even once being understood He was always alone Intoxicated with victory in a hill of swords Thus, his life has no meaning That body was certainly made out of swords i feel like the literal english speaks more directly about archer's life compared to the english one where it talks about how archer has given up and "prays" that it will all end. |
| all other archers pale in comparison. |
| Yes and I'm pretty sure that the line that Shirou said was supposed to be translated as "I am the bone of my sword", not "Steel is my body". Lmao translator pls |
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simbee said: Yes and I'm pretty sure that the line that Shirou said was supposed to be translated as "I am the bone of my sword", not "Steel is my body". Lmao translator pls I'll wait patiently for UTW's subs ^_^ |
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| It's twist on the classic "is/ought problem" in philosophy. To state it more plainly: just because something is a certain way, that doesn't mean it ought to be that way. It's also known as the "Naturalistic fallacy". Really annoying to see people jump on this bandwagon, when they're only showing their own ignorance. |
MickdrewMay 24, 2015 12:25 AM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Mickdrew said: It's twist on the classic "is/ought problem" in philosophy. To state it more plainly: just because something is a certain way, that doesn't mean it ought to be that way. It's also known as the "Naturalistic fallacy". Really annoying to see people jump on this bandwagon, when they're only showing their own ignorance. Except that there was barely any sign of the Naturalistic Fallacy in their argument. You cannot be sure that Shirou was pointing out a fallacy in Archer's argument, especially when he followed up with "そんなもの、私は要らない". It was more of a baseless rejection without the use of logic. He just didn't want to accept what Archer was saying, despite acknowledging it was true. Further displayed when he said that his "Spirit" lost, because he believed what Archer was saying, but his Limbs could still work, hence he would defeat Archer. He meant that though he lost the argument, and that Archer was right, he would still fight because he didn't want to lose to himself. He tossed away all logic, admitting that Archer was right. In fact, if you read the original Japanese version, there was no "is/ought problem" at all. It was created by the translator. Funny how you didn't explain how this was a "is/ought problem". |
simbeeMay 24, 2015 1:39 AM
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MostRealArcher said: yes archer is right that emiya shirou's ideals are fake, impossible and hypocritical but it doesn't mean that such a path is meaningless and not worth pursuing. |
 All credit goes to Sacred. |
| Just because killing the criminal is the correct thing to do logically to rid the world of evil, it isn't right to take someone else's life. ^^^The logic used in that, answers OP's question. |
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MostRealArcher said: English: I am the bone of my sword Steel is my body and fire is my blood I have created over a thousand blades Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life Have withstood pain to create many weapons Yet, those hands will never hold anything So as I pray, unlimited blade works. ruby text or literal English: His body is made out of swords His blood is of iron and his heart of glass He survived through countless battles Not even once retreating Not even once being understood He was always alone Intoxicated with victory in a hill of swords Thus, his life has no meaning That body was certainly made out of swords i feel like the literal english speaks more directly about archer's life compared to the english one where it talks about how archer has given up and "prays" that it will all end. I read on a forum somewhere where they were debating the actual translations that it was (if I remember correctly) neither of those translations, that it was bit of a mix and it told the story of Archer's life. I'll try and find it again, but I don't have my hopes up :(. Edit: I actually found it xD. They seemed to each have different interpretations, that the original Engrish version is better simply because it sounded more like an actual spell. But my favourite direct translation was this one that they posted: My body is made of swords Iron is my blood, glass my heart I have overcome countless battlefields undefeated. Without once retreating. Nor once being understood. Always alone, intoxicated with victory on a hill of swords. Therefore there is no meaning to that life. Perhaps this body is nothing but a sword itself http://forums.mirrormoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3181 |
SaintEmiyaMay 24, 2015 7:14 AM
Epicenter said: I don't think it's needless to say it's the translators fault, even you said you thought it was pretty clear. You are right. It looks like it was the translator´s fault, i dint saw that line in the version i watched. |
| no |
simbee said: Mickdrew said: It's twist on the classic "is/ought problem" in philosophy. To state it more plainly: just because something is a certain way, that doesn't mean it ought to be that way. It's also known as the "Naturalistic fallacy". Really annoying to see people jump on this bandwagon, when they're only showing their own ignorance. Except that there was barely any sign of the Naturalistic Fallacy in their argument. You cannot be sure that Shirou was pointing out a fallacy in Archer's argument, especially when he followed up with "そんなもの、私は要らない". It was more of a baseless rejection without the use of logic. He just didn't want to accept what Archer was saying, despite acknowledging it was true. Further displayed when he said that his "Spirit" lost, because he believed what Archer was saying, but his Limbs could still work, hence he would defeat Archer. He meant that though he lost the argument, and that Archer was right, he would still fight because he didn't want to lose to himself. He tossed away all logic, admitting that Archer was right. In fact, if you read the original Japanese version, there was no "is/ought problem" at all. It was created by the translator. Funny how you didn't explain how this was a "is/ought problem". During his monologue, Shirou said that his ideals are also based on the wish to undo the hell of those around him. He could very well just be rejecting Archer's logic, but don't pretend like the is/ought problem is irrelevant to what was being argued over. |
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| Lol, Shirou said nothing about rightness/correctness. The whole line is completely random translator's thoughts and has nothing to do with what Shirou said. Let me quote myself Zulkir said: astroprogs said: 21:36 Shirou said: 手も足もまだ動く 負けていたのは俺の心だ お前を正しいだと受け入れていた 俺の心が弱かった お前の正しさはただ正しいだけのものだ そんなもの、俺は要らない 俺は正義の味方になる Literally, Shirou said: My arms and legs are still working The one that lost [to you] was my heart It accepted you as being right My heart was weak Your rightfulness is just a thing of being right I don't need such a thing I will become a champion of justice What he meant is "You are completely right, but being right or not has nothing to do with my ideal." |
ZulkirMay 24, 2015 1:28 PM
Mickdrew said: simbee said: Except that there was barely any sign of the Naturalistic Fallacy in their argument. You cannot be sure that Shirou was pointing out a fallacy in Archer's argument, especially when he followed up with "そんなもの、私は要らない". It was more of a baseless rejection without the use of logic. He just didn't want to accept what Archer was saying, despite acknowledging it was true. Further displayed when he said that his "Spirit" lost, because he believed what Archer was saying, but his Limbs could still work, hence he would defeat Archer. He meant that though he lost the argument, and that Archer was right, he would still fight because he didn't want to lose to himself. He tossed away all logic, admitting that Archer was right. In fact, if you read the original Japanese version, there was no "is/ought problem" at all. It was created by the translator. Funny how you didn't explain how this was a "is/ought problem". During his monologue, Shirou said that his ideals are also based on the wish to undo the hell of those around him. He could very well just be rejecting Archer's logic, but don't pretend like the is/ought problem is irrelevant to what was being argued over. If he was just rejecting Archer's logic, then the is/ought problem is COMPLETELY irrelevant. That would mean that his statement wouldn't have the vaguest sense of logicality in it, rendering any fallacy invalid. Please refer to the original post. In case you forgot, this thread is about the meaning behind the sentence that Shirou said. Stop trying so hard to derail the topic at hand. |
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| Pretty sure his meaning is that Archer is right in that he didn't originally sign up for it. Shirou is just stating that he knows what will happen...and is STILL going to sign up for it. It's at this moment when the person who would be Archer disappears and the man who will become Shirou is set on a path that is his own |
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