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Poll: Has this adaptation shattered your faith in ufotable X type moon being amazing?

Apr 7, 2015 2:22 PM
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ijuka said:
Personally I disliked F/Z's art in comparison to KnK as well. Not as much as this, though. F/Z lacked in the atmosphere department as well, however.

It is also the style used for Mirai Fukuin.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:22 PM

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Grey-Zone said:
I am actually a little bit sad that they didn't include the scene where Rin says that on the rooftop to Shirou. It would have been hilarious... instead we got "Archer-class really is made out of Archers".
Lol. And that quote is also a bad translation, but from Crunchyroll. Rin meant to compliment the Archer class, but this phrase just sounds wrong.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:23 PM

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chaosflame5 said:
Grey-Zone said:
I am actually a little bit sad that they didn't include the scene where Rin says that on the rooftop to Shirou. It would have been hilarious... instead we got "Archer-class really is made out of Archers".
Lol. And that quote is also a bad translation, but from Crunchyroll. Rin meant to compliment the Archer class, but this phrase just sounds wrong.


Sounded like her being sarcastic and teasing him to me. I don't know how people took it any other way, bad translation or not. It's equivalent to saying "Wow, you really are an Archer!"
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:24 PM

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Grey-Zone said:

That's a fair point. Still if he REALLY was as incompetent as people say, why would ufotable risk using the "incompetent" guy in such a large-scale project? You would have to blame Kondo on that one, since he appearantly is the guy to decided to have Miura be the director according to the interview. From a business standpoint it makes no sense to use someone who's ability you cannot trust.

I honestly have no idea why they chose Miura for it, and anyone claiming they do are just bullshitting.

If i had to guess, personally, I'd say that Miura wasn't really proven to not be trust worthy.
The modifications he made in KnK 6 were always justified by the need of having a lighthearted movie in between the 5th and 7th movie. Not to mention that he also directed an excellent episode in F/Z and the highly regarded PSVITA openings.

They had no reason to think less of his abilities.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:25 PM

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nocorras said:
>Also you talk about "end product", but I don't think it can be seen as an "end product" until one sees at the very least all the TV episodes.


Already said I'm waiting till the end to fully judge, I just don't like how Shirou's characterized.

The changes that have been listed really don't impose on time constraints. Add context to fights, don't butcher the monologue in episode 9, don't alter scenes to make him look like a goofball or to take away from his character.

Don't put in lines like "I didn't think" when it's not true and directly contradicts an (important imo) aspect of his character.

They waste time in this anime anyway. Showing Saber sleeping for 20 seconds instead of having the monologue about Rin that perfectly explains her to the viewer.


I see. I only agree with some of that (wasn't "moe-Saber" Nasu's idea? Never mind mind it's better not to discuss this endlessly), but I can at least understand your view on the matter now. I guess endlessly arguing will just involve the trolls again.


Should do what I planned to do, staying in the background until next episode. OK, attempt no. 2 here we go.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:26 PM

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nocorras said:
Sounded like her being sarcastic and teasing him to me. I don't know how people took it any other way, bad translation or not. It's equivalent to saying "Wow, you really are an Archer!"
I think she was teasing Archer. And even that quote you mentioned sounds better than Archer is made of Archers.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:27 PM
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nocorras said:

Don't put in lines like "I didn't think" when it's not true and directly contradicts an (important imo) aspect of his character.


That was actually a line of the novel.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:28 PM

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Grey-Zone said:
nocorras said:
>Also you talk about "end product", but I don't think it can be seen as an "end product" until one sees at the very least all the TV episodes.


Already said I'm waiting till the end to fully judge, I just don't like how Shirou's characterized.

The changes that have been listed really don't impose on time constraints. Add context to fights, don't butcher the monologue in episode 9, don't alter scenes to make him look like a goofball or to take away from his character.

Don't put in lines like "I didn't think" when it's not true and directly contradicts an (important imo) aspect of his character.

They waste time in this anime anyway. Showing Saber sleeping for 20 seconds instead of having the monologue about Rin that perfectly explains her to the viewer.


I see. I only agree with some of that, but I can at least understand your view on the matter now. I guess endlessly arguing will just involve the trolls again.


Should do what I planned to do, staying in the background until next episode. OK, attempt no. 2 here we go.


I mean... I've literally been saying the same things for two weeks now :(

YggdrasilTM said:
nocorras said:

Don't put in lines like "I didn't think" when it's not true and directly contradicts an (important imo) aspect of his character.


That was actually a line of the novel.


I went back and read the scene. He said "before I realized" and he did think the situation through and even thought he would die if he jumped. I addressed this in the episode discussion thread. It comes across as different and makes him look idiotic rather than highlighting a 'mental flaw' (don't know how to describe it proplerly). When he thinks about the situation and does it anyway knowing he will die it directly ties into a monologue from the common route where he pretty much admits he would go into a situation and basically suicide trying to save people.

In the anime, the idiot jumps without thinking to save waifu.
Modified by nocorras, Apr 7, 2015 2:31 PM
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:31 PM

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astroprogs said:
Grey-Zone said:

That's a fair point. Still if he REALLY was as incompetent as people say, why would ufotable risk using the "incompetent" guy in such a large-scale project? You would have to blame Kondo on that one, since he appearantly is the guy to decided to have Miura be the director according to the interview. From a business standpoint it makes no sense to use someone who's ability you cannot trust.

I honestly have no idea why they chose Miura for it, and anyone claiming they do are just bullshitting.

If i had to guess, personally, I'd say that Miura wasn't really proven to not be trust worthy.
The modifications he made in KnK 6 were always justified by the need of having a lighthearted movie in between the 5th and 7th movie. Not to mention that he also directed an excellent episode in F/Z and the highly regarded PSVITA openings.

They had no reason to think less of his abilities.


TBH it is obvious that Ufo is treating UBW as a cheap cash in.

The WHOLE TEAM is newbies. There has even been the interview before show airing on how "This will give chance for less known ufotable employees to get experience".

They are using this as cheap cash in so they can marked HF as "Tr00 zero sequel"
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:31 PM
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nocorras said:
I went back and read the scene. He said "before I realized" and he did think the situation through and even thought he would die if he jumped. I addressed this in the episode discussion thread. It comes across as different and makes him look idiotic rather than highlighting a 'mental flaw' (don't know how to describe it proplerly)


The japanese is the same. It's just a matter of translation. Even the CR version is correct.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:32 PM

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YggdrasilTM said:
nocorras said:
I went back and read the scene. He said "before I realized" and he did think the situation through and even thought he would die if he jumped. I addressed this in the episode discussion thread. It comes across as different and makes him look idiotic rather than highlighting a 'mental flaw' (don't know how to describe it proplerly)


The japanese is the same. It's just a matter of translation. Even the CR version is correct.


Except I can quote the VN where he did think. The script/scenario being changed in the anime doesn't justify it.

Since I edit it in the other post, I'll post this here too:

When he thinks about the situation and does it anyway knowing he will die it directly ties into a monologue from the common route where he pretty much admits he would go into a situation and basically suicide trying to save people.

In the anime, the idiot jumps without thinking to save waifu.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:34 PM
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nocorras said:
YggdrasilTM said:


The japanese is the same. It's just a matter of translation. Even the CR version is correct.


Except I can quote the VN where he did think. The script/scenario being changed in the anime doesn't justify it.


I repeat: IT'S A TRANSLATION PROBLEM, NOT A SCRIPT ONE.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:34 PM

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CookingPriest said:
They are using this as cheap cash in so they can marked HF as "Tr00 zero sequel"
that's fine
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Apr 7, 2015 2:35 PM

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YggdrasilTM said:
nocorras said:


Except I can quote the VN where he did think. The script/scenario being changed in the anime doesn't justify it.


I repeat: IT'S A TRANSLATION PROBLEM, NOT A SCRIPT ONE.



Sorry I misinterpreted what you said. When you say 'the Japanese is the same' I thought you were referring to it as being the same as what was said in English.

And I always blamed Aniplex for this, I figured it was mistranslated...
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:37 PM

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nocorras said:
YggdrasilTM said:


I repeat: IT'S A TRANSLATION PROBLEM, NOT A SCRIPT ONE.



Sorry I misinterpreted what you said. When you say 'the japanese is the same' I thought you were referring to it as being the same as what was said in English.

And I always blamed Aniplex for this, I figured it was mistranslation...


That still does not change that we have a proof in VN that he DID think and simply disregarded the threat, while in animewedo not.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:39 PM

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CookingPriest said:
nocorras said:



Sorry I misinterpreted what you said. When you say 'the japanese is the same' I thought you were referring to it as being the same as what was said in English.

And I always blamed Aniplex for this, I figured it was mistranslation...


That still does not change that we have a proof in VN that he DID think and simply disregarded the threat, while in animewedo not.


True is still doesn't highlight that character trait. He just comes across as an idiot that only wants to save his waifu.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:41 PM

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nocorras said:
CookingPriest said:


That still does not change that we have a proof in VN that he DID think and simply disregarded the threat, while in animewedo not.


True is still doesn't highlight that character trait. He just comes across as an idiot that only wants to save his waifu.


IT even feels pointless because for all we know archer would have still said his whole"let her go" part.

In VN tho the way betrayal was framed you would not even expect that to happen


Let'snot forget removinganother case of Shirou's perceptiveness by taking away the part where he realizes whatArchesr is about to do way before he does it.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:42 PM

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YggdrasilTM said:

But it is basically the same style they used on F/Z.


Not exactly, I think. Differences might be subtle, but the sharpness of the line can really make a big difference: also the faces on this screenshot are only partially turned away, not fully from the side. But I do agree that between F/Z and KnK there already was a visible downgrade in artstyle.
Anyway, still waiting for this Rin to come back:
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Kellhus said:
GuusWayne said:
there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief

And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:44 PM

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The' smart' people haven't voted yet.
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:46 PM

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Canon-Rin, Canon-Shirou and CanonShirou/CanonRin will sadly stay in the VN....
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:47 PM

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MyNameIsJeff said:
CookingPriest said:
They are using this as cheap cash in so they can marked HF as "Tr00 zero sequel"
that's fine


this. totally fine with me, considering HF is the best arc

edit: and please dont spew that bulshit that a good HF is reliant on a good UBW.

But who was fate arc?
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:52 PM
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GangstaPriest said:
YggdrasilTM said:

But it is basically the same style they used on F/Z.


Not exactly, I think. Differences might be subtle, but the sharpness of the line can really make a big difference: also the faces on this screenshot are only partially turned away, not fully from the side. But I do agree that between F/Z and KnK there already was a visible downgrade in artstyle.
Anyway, still waiting for this Rin to come back:


This isn't a movie, or a 2 minutes opening, after all. They have no time work in the same way of the KNK movies.
I actually think that the charadesign of UBW is smarter than the one used for zero. The zero one is too much rigid and bulky, and this may create problems during the animations of action scenes, (see the Kiritsugu/Kirei duel).
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:55 PM

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Grapekiwi said:
MyNameIsJeff said:
that's fine


this. totally fine with me, considering HF is the best arc

edit: and please dont spew that bulshit that a good HF is reliant on a good UBW.

But who was fate arc?


Yeah no.

UBW is the best arc.

HF needs good fate route adaptation for Shirou's character contrast to work and both fate and UBW to even be comprehended it absolutely can't stand on its own
 
Apr 7, 2015 2:57 PM

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CookingPriest said:
Grapekiwi said:


this. totally fine with me, considering HF is the best arc

edit: and please dont spew that bulshit that a good HF is reliant on a good UBW.

But who was fate arc?


Yeah no.

UBW is the best arc.

HF needs good fate route adaptation for Shirou's character contrast to work and both fate and UBW to even be comprehended it absolutely can't stand on its own
ubw a shit
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Apr 7, 2015 3:00 PM
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nocorras said:
The' smart' people haven't voted yet.


What the hell? 1 negative vote each minute? Who sent in the clones?
 
Apr 7, 2015 3:08 PM

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nocorras said:
The' smart' people haven't voted yet.

No, not really. It's not smart to lose all faith in a studio after a single failure.

The smart people voted No.
 
Apr 7, 2015 3:09 PM

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YggdrasilTM said:
nocorras said:
The' smart' people haven't voted yet.


What the hell? 1 negative vote each minute? Who sent in the clones?


The same ones that vote for Saber I guess :)

I don't if it's bots in either case though, if it is fake votes then it doesn't help whoever's cause it is.

astroprogs said:
nocorras said:
The' smart' people haven't voted yet.

No, not really. It's not smart to lose all faith in a studio after a single failure.

The smart people voted No.


I haven't lost faith in them and probably won't. Lost faith in Miura, and if they put him on something like a Tsukihime route(if he totally fucks UBW) then I will lose faith in them completely
 
Apr 7, 2015 3:10 PM

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astroprogs said:
nocorras said:
The' smart' people haven't voted yet.

No, not really. It's not smart to lose all faith in a studio after a single failure.

The smart people voted No.
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Apr 7, 2015 3:12 PM

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nocorras said:

I haven't lost faith in them and probably won't. Lost faith in Miura, and if they put him on something like a Tsukihime route(if he totally fucks UBW) then I will lose faith in them completely


I believeUfo COULD redeemthemselves whenthey adapt mahoyo or something IF they make the right choices.

But it is certainly no longer the "Ufo can do no wrong, their adaptations are great, savior studio" attitude.
 
Apr 7, 2015 3:18 PM

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With this adaptation Ufo has become even more amazing for me. Can't say the same about their new art style. It's such a goddamn failure.
 
Apr 7, 2015 3:31 PM

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Toei > Ufotable

That's the only truth.

Deal with it.
 
Apr 7, 2015 3:31 PM
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Grapekiwi said:
MyNameIsJeff said:
that's fine


this. totally fine with me, considering HF is the best arc

edit: and please dont spew that bulshit that a good HF is reliant on a good UBW.

But who was fate arc?


HF can't be best route because of Sakura (not a fan) she really got on my nerves
But it does have lots of awesome Kirei and Illya moments no doubt

I would say UBW is the most balanced and best route

Fate is just boring though
 
Apr 7, 2015 3:35 PM

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Journey_95 said:
Grapekiwi said:


this. totally fine with me, considering HF is the best arc

edit: and please dont spew that bulshit that a good HF is reliant on a good UBW.

But who was fate arc?


HF can't be best route because of Sakura
hey it's not the route's fault that you have shit taste
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Apr 7, 2015 3:39 PM

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Mikedrew said:
75% of voters are smart people.

It's good to be sceptical, but this battle cry of "BETRAYAL!" is ridiculous.


Agreed. Also why is it you cant change votes? Its so easy to misclick on this sight sometimes.
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Apr 7, 2015 3:45 PM

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Completely lost faith. Even DEEN knows how to make people land when they jump from great heights.

 
Apr 7, 2015 3:48 PM

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antonn said:
Completely lost faith. Even DEEN knows how to make people land when they jump from great heights.



AS fucking awful as that looks at least they both got equal treatment instead one getting to stumble on his own feet while other gets true magic level gandrs.
 
Apr 7, 2015 4:01 PM

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CookingPriest said:
astroprogs said:

I honestly have no idea why they chose Miura for it, and anyone claiming they do are just bullshitting.

If i had to guess, personally, I'd say that Miura wasn't really proven to not be trust worthy.
The modifications he made in KnK 6 were always justified by the need of having a lighthearted movie in between the 5th and 7th movie. Not to mention that he also directed an excellent episode in F/Z and the highly regarded PSVITA openings.

They had no reason to think less of his abilities.


TBH it is obvious that Ufo is treating UBW as a cheap cash in.

The WHOLE TEAM is newbies. There has even been the interview before show airing on how "This will give chance for less known ufotable employees to get experience".

They are using this as cheap cash in so they can marked HF as "Tr00 zero sequel"

I still can't buy this theory. What kind of a cheap cash in would have FOUR double length episodes with a budget like this one?
And if i were ufo I'd indeed value HF much more than UBW. It's the route that was never adapted, and with the most ties with their most successful work ever. It'll undoubtedly make more money than UBW ever will.
 
Apr 7, 2015 4:01 PM

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Well, I'm not a pro jumper or anything but when I jump pretty far down(like 3 meters), I intentionally first fall on my knees, then on my stomach, hoping I could resist enough with my legs for it to not be completely horrible. Trying to land properly is just asking for injury.

astroprogs said:
CookingPriest said:


TBH it is obvious that Ufo is treating UBW as a cheap cash in.

The WHOLE TEAM is newbies. There has even been the interview before show airing on how "This will give chance for less known ufotable employees to get experience".

They are using this as cheap cash in so they can marked HF as "Tr00 zero sequel"

I still can't buy this theory. What kind of a cheap cash in would have FOUR double length episodes with a budget like this one?
And if i were ufo I'd indeed value HF much more than UBW. It's the route that was never adapted, and with the most ties with their most successful work ever. It'll undoubtedly make more money than UBW ever will.

Well it makes quite a bit of sense to me to value H/F much more than UBW. As far as I'm concerned, UBW's sort of a sidestory that just enables you to understand H/F better(Similar role with the Fate route). Hence, as long as they introduce the parts necessary for understanding H/F better, I'll be perfectly happy with the adaptation.
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Apr 7, 2015 4:08 PM

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astroprogs said:
CookingPriest said:


TBH it is obvious that Ufo is treating UBW as a cheap cash in.

The WHOLE TEAM is newbies. There has even been the interview before show airing on how "This will give chance for less known ufotable employees to get experience".

They are using this as cheap cash in so they can marked HF as "Tr00 zero sequel"

I still can't buy this theory. What kind of a cheap cash in would have FOUR double length episodes with a budget like this one?
And if i were ufo I'd indeed value HF much more than UBW. It's the route that was never adapted, and with the most ties with their most successful work ever. It'll undoubtedly make more money than UBW ever will.


None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero.

SO no.

HF will simply appeal to all the edgelord fans while UBW gets shafted again.

Sure they threw money at UBW adaptation, but not the talent. And they are confident they willmake more than they threw in with BDs especially whaat a rip off they are.
 
Apr 7, 2015 4:10 PM

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CookingPriest said:
astroprogs said:

I still can't buy this theory. What kind of a cheap cash in would have FOUR double length episodes with a budget like this one?
And if i were ufo I'd indeed value HF much more than UBW. It's the route that was never adapted, and with the most ties with their most successful work ever. It'll undoubtedly make more money than UBW ever will.


None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero.

SO no.

HF will simply appeal to all the edgelord fans while UBW gets shafted again.

Sure they threw money at UBW adaptation, but not the talent. And they are confident they willmake more than they threw in with BDs especially whaat a rip off they are.

"None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero."

This simply is objectively false. The final sentence, that is. Zero started something, one route brings it to a conclusion. One. Others barely scape by it.
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Apr 7, 2015 4:13 PM

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ijuka said:
CookingPriest said:


None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero.

SO no.

HF will simply appeal to all the edgelord fans while UBW gets shafted again.

Sure they threw money at UBW adaptation, but not the talent. And they are confident they willmake more than they threw in with BDs especially whaat a rip off they are.

"None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero."

This simply is objectively false. The final sentence, that is. Zero started something, one route brings it to a conclusion. One. Others barely scape by it.


Um sure.......
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Apr 7, 2015 4:13 PM
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Zombiepie said:
Mikedrew said:
75% of voters are smart people.

It's good to be sceptical, but this battle cry of "BETRAYAL!" is ridiculous.


Agreed. Also why is it you cant change votes? Its so easy to misclick on this sight sometimes.


I know exactly how you feel. Since the title of the topic is 'Faith in ufotable', I clicked 'Yes' without thinking. Sigh.
 
Apr 7, 2015 4:19 PM
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CookingPriest said:



None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero.



I fail to see how UBW is equally as connected with Zero as Fate and HF. The only thing they have in common is ideals wanking.
 
Apr 7, 2015 4:24 PM

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Man I never get tired of reading the same shit over 7 different threads.

Ufotable is fine, you'd have to be insane to throw it to anyone else. Type-moon's best adaptations come from Ufotable, and Ufotable's best works come from Type-moon.
 
Apr 7, 2015 4:25 PM

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CookingPriest said:

None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero.

SO no.

1. The quality of said adaptations doesn't factor here. Fate and UBW were adapted, and Nasu avoiding to mention them doesn't negate that fact.
2. True, and wasn't not really my point.
3. No, not all routes have "equal" amount of ties to Zero. Fate deals with Saber's conclusion and one possibility for Shirou. UBW deals with another Shirou possibility. HF deals with literally every thing else (The grail's nature - Angra Mainyu - The Matous plot - Illya - More on Kerry) and one more possibility for Shirou (2 if you count MoS, which ties into F/Z itself).

CookingPriest said:

HF will simply appeal to all the edgelord fans while UBW gets shafted again.

That's subjective. If HF appeals to more people, then that's that. And it doesn't really make it OBJECTIVELY worse than UBW.

CookingPriest said:

Sure they threw money at UBW adaptation, but not the talent. And they are confident they willmake more than they threw in with BDs especially whaat a rip off they are.

Well, the opposite of what you're saying is what actually happened, didn't it? ufoUBW sold less than F/Z.
And the BDs weren't a ripoff. I thought we already discussed this.
Modified by astroprogs, Apr 7, 2015 4:31 PM
 
Apr 7, 2015 4:27 PM

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WrongPriest said:
Man I never get tired of reading the same shit over 7 different threads.

Ufotable is fine, you'd have to be insane to throw it to anyone else. Type-moon's best adaptations come from Ufotable, and Ufotable's best works come from Type-moon.


Its an endless cycle which will never end. Doomed to repeat itself time and time again. It shall go on for many threads and the Salt levels will rise swallowing everything around it.
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Apr 7, 2015 4:35 PM

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Jtiger987 said:
CookingPriest said:



None of routes were adapted
none of routes can stand on their own
all of routes have equal amount of ties to Zero.



I fail to see how UBW is equally as connected with Zero as Fate and HF. The only thing they have in common is ideals wanking.


UBW's resolution Kiritsugu's struggle of ideals in a positive and empowering way plays into Zero's negative resolution of the same ideals.
 
Apr 7, 2015 5:05 PM
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CookingPriest said:
Jtiger987 said:


I fail to see how UBW is equally as connected with Zero as Fate and HF. The only thing they have in common is ideals wanking.


UBW's resolution Kiritsugu's struggle of ideals in a positive and empowering way plays into Zero's negative resolution of the same ideals.


Yes, this is what I meant by 'ideals wanking' in the first place. However, the route is not directly focused on Kiritsugu, as opposed to having Saber come to terms with her own problems in Fate, or all of the things that happened in HF that were directly connected with Zero.

The ideals in UBW are shown through Shirou's perspective and are inherently different from Kiritsugu's because of that. It's true that the bulk of it is the same, but Kerry and Shirou are pretty different people, and as such they go about those ideals in a completely different way.

Most of Kerry's characterization in the novel comes from HF, and UBW's themes are fairly independent from his character. It's true that somewhat of a parallel could be drawn between Archer in UBW and Kerry, but that's about it.
 
Apr 7, 2015 5:09 PM

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Kiritsugu is nothing more than an extension of Shirou's dilemma anyway. He is not his own character.
 
Apr 7, 2015 11:28 PM

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June93 said:
CookingPriest said:


IDK man, the plot and characters seem to be just an excuse for buttshots and fights.
This is pretty much my opinion of this adaptation.

Valid. Still ain't straight out porno though lol.
 
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