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Apr 2, 2015 4:23 AM

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Lets ignore every scene where someone challenges/addresses his way of life/ideal be it classmate, ally Master or a Servant that tried to kill him.

Lets focus on one scene that was changed although the original doesnt add anything important to the character.Lets Shirouwank and forget all other scenes in the Vn where Rin has the upper hand.

Surely the "chemistry" would magically fix any problems casuals have with the chars as if that is what separates from from generic shounen chars

Oh and he runs and screams in the VN...

As for him being an idiot.
If the viewer cant see how many of his choices make sense then the problem isnt that they dont like the char, it's that they dont get the situation.
Shirou has supported Rin,helped her,saved her,acted when she couldnt,acted before she could to avoid problems((Issei) etc.
If you, Fai ,still see Rin dominating their relationship then you have the problem ,not the casuals.
Modified by ssjokg, Apr 2, 2015 4:31 AM
 
Apr 2, 2015 4:59 AM

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I think its better than the DEEN Movie.

and really, thats all I was looking for, lol.
 
Apr 2, 2015 5:04 AM

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Delicious tears

 
Apr 2, 2015 5:31 AM

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Grapekiwi said:
I think its better than the DEEN Movie.

and really, thats all I was looking for, lol.


Exactly, Infinitely better than the Movie.

Give it a rest and call it a win.
 
Apr 2, 2015 5:32 AM

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Grapekiwi said:
I think its better than the DEEN Movie AMV.

and really, thats all I was looking for, lol.


fix'ed
 
Apr 2, 2015 5:35 AM

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Takiya_Oomine said:
Grapekiwi said:
It's the first UBW anime.

and really, thats all I was looking for, lol.


fix'ed


You missed a spot.
 
Apr 2, 2015 5:47 AM

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Takiya_Oomine said:
Grapekiwi said:
I think its better than the DEEN Movie AMV.

and really, thats all I was looking for, lol.


fix'ed


haha gg
 
Apr 2, 2015 6:25 AM

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Grapekiwi said:
I think its better than the DEEN Movie.

and really, thats all I was looking for, lol.


Well its certainly LONGER, flashier and does not juggle the scenes as much...

Otherwise...
 
Apr 2, 2015 7:29 AM

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In terms of adaptating specific scenes where Shirou is not involved, Ufotable did a great job.

In terms of stuff involving Shirou (most of the content)? Miura should be fired.
 
Apr 2, 2015 7:36 AM

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The graphics were pretty.
 
Apr 2, 2015 7:45 AM

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j0x said:
fans always say that the source material is superior to the anime adaptation, so get use to it


This is the only true answer in this thread. It makes literally ZERO difference how a book, VN or manga is adapted, there will always be a vocal subset of fans who think it's shitty. I've learned to accept that as a secondary source of entertainment after enjoying the anime.
 
Apr 2, 2015 7:52 AM

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slkrr said:
j0x said:
fans always say that the source material is superior to the anime adaptation, so get use to it


This is the only true answer in this thread. It makes literally ZERO difference how a book, VN or manga is adapted, there will always be a vocal subset of fans who think it's shitty. I've learned to accept that as a secondary source of entertainment after enjoying the anime.
the thing is that the first ahlf is only a few lines short of being a perfect adaptation. fuck having 20 min of monologues or whatever bullshit you guys like to project onto the fans. these are more or less seemingly minor complaints but it's characterisation in a character driven series. some of the complaints before werent too big a problem because they would have more than likely been rectified in the second half. now with the new episode blogs out it looks like the characters are deliberately getting shitted on in exchange for fanservice and this is whats pissing fans off. but by all means i do hope this adaptation makes me eat my words. but until then i'm holding my skepticism.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:00 AM

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Maloghurst said:
slkrr said:


This is the only true answer in this thread. It makes literally ZERO difference how a book, VN or manga is adapted, there will always be a vocal subset of fans who think it's shitty. I've learned to accept that as a secondary source of entertainment after enjoying the anime.
the thing is that the first ahlf is only a few lines short of being a perfect adaptation. fuck having 20 min of monologues or whatever bullshit you guys like to project onto the fans. these are more or less seemingly minor complaints but it's characterisation in a character driven series. some of the complaints before werent too big a problem because they would have more than likely been rectified in the second half. now with the new episode blogs out it looks like the characters are deliberately getting shitted on in exchange for fanservice and this is whats pissing fans off. but by all means i do hope this adaptation makes me eat my words. but until then i'm holding my skepticism.


^Same here except that I do not believe 2nd half has the time to rectify th problems as it would look very drastically different from first cour characterization.

And first half was the part where the characterization was supposed to be.

Not Butts.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:04 AM

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Salt
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:05 AM

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CookingPriest said:
Maloghurst said:
the thing is that the first ahlf is only a few lines short of being a perfect adaptation. fuck having 20 min of monologues or whatever bullshit you guys like to project onto the fans. these are more or less seemingly minor complaints but it's characterisation in a character driven series. some of the complaints before werent too big a problem because they would have more than likely been rectified in the second half. now with the new episode blogs out it looks like the characters are deliberately getting shitted on in exchange for fanservice and this is whats pissing fans off. but by all means i do hope this adaptation makes me eat my words. but until then i'm holding my skepticism.


^Same here except that I do not believe 2nd half has the time to rectify th problems as it would look very drastically different from first cour characterization.

And first half was the part where the characterization was supposed to be.

Not Butts.


You know, Fate Zero didnt have kiritsugu characterization until like, the last 3/4ths of the show, like eps 17-19 or whatever - when they finally delved into his backstory.

Not saying its going to pan out like that, but im not judging it until I see it all.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:10 AM

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Grapekiwi said:
CookingPriest said:


^Same here except that I do not believe 2nd half has the time to rectify th problems as it would look very drastically different from first cour characterization.

And first half was the part where the characterization was supposed to be.

Not Butts.


You know, Fate Zero didnt have kiritsugu characterization until like, the last 3/4ths of the show, like eps 17-19 or whatever - when they finally delved into his backstory.

Not saying its going to pan out like that, but im not judging it until I see it all.
well sure after the not-winter forest scene we should be getting at least an all-shirou episode.....at least with the way this is going...either that or it's more likely the dircter is gonna reduce that shit to like two lines because it's confusing and useless for anime.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:22 AM

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Grapekiwi said:
CookingPriest said:


^Same here except that I do not believe 2nd half has the time to rectify th problems as it would look very drastically different from first cour characterization.

And first half was the part where the characterization was supposed to be.

Not Butts.


You know, Fate Zero didnt have kiritsugu characterization until like, the last 3/4ths of the show, like eps 17-19 or whatever - when they finally delved into his backstory.

Not saying its going to pan out like that, but im not judging it until I see it all.


Kerry's full character is like, what, 2% OF SHIROU'S COMPLEXITY(NOT joking)

Backstory can't help CHARACTERIZATION.

Characterization =/= Backstory

Imagine if Kerry was running around falling on his but and accidentally shooting people with no planning.

The problems is not backstory or WHY he does shit he does.
The problem is WHAT he does and HOW he behaves and HOW it is presented.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:23 AM
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Maloghurst said:
well sure after the not-winter forest scene we should be getting at least an all-shirou episode.....at least with the way this is going...either that or it's more likely the dircter is gonna reduce that shit to like two lines because it's confusing and useless for anime.


The rumors are pretty worrying.

It will be even more funny even we get a whole episode of caster X saber crap.............knowing Miura that might actually happen.

 
Apr 2, 2015 8:35 AM

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June93 said:
Dragon_Slayer_X said:


They really wouldn't have any problems if people hated him after some actual CHARACTERIZATION.

Seriously what's a point of changing scenes that just to make the MC look stupid..........and this is done in several LN or VN adaptations.
To add, getting Shirou's character wrong is the biggest mistake one can make regarding the writing since the narrative as a whole hinges on his character and without it the whole affair is merely one vapid mess, as we have now. People seem to think that just getting the sequence of events right equals a proper adaptation but that's simply wrong, considering the intent of the original work is largely absent.
^This

AS some secondary said to me "I understand SHirou has some tragic backstory but that does not change him being boring generic shonen protagonist who keeps essing things up for everyone".

Backstory without characterization is worth jack shit.

When someone writes the narrative, the first half is usually spent setting up the plot lines AND adding the bits that make you LIKE the character, where he is established as someone whom the viewers can root for.
You know shit like

Or


Or
What's with those eyes? What, are you going to stand up for Issei?
Heh, fine. If you're going to ignore the obvious, I'll go and solve things myself!"
But our school idol is the only one who does not realize the situation.
"……Tohsaka, come over here."
"What, are you going to run away!?"
"I won't run away. Just come this way."
I drag Tohsaka by her hand.
"HHey, Emiya-kun…!?"
She can complain later.
Just let me get away from here as fast as I can.

and etc etc etc.

No to mention scenes where the lead is shown capable and competent like
"…All right, let's do it."
Enough thinking.
Right now, I just have to counter the intruder.

"…First of all, I need a weapon."
Even though I'm a magus, all I can do is "strengthen" something that could be a weapon.
To fight, I need a weapon.
The shed has lots of things that could become weapons, but it's too far away.
If I'm attacked when I leave the living room, it will just be a repeat of what happened earlier.

and


The man hesitates a moment, as I deflected his lance thrust.
As I expected.
If I jumped out the window, he would definitely come after me.
And he would kill me even before I could get up.

That's why I expected the fatal blow and swung at it.
It was a bold plan. I would have died if it was a second too late or a second too early. But considering the difference in our skill, I could never have been too early.

So all I had to do was get up as fast as possible and swing at what was coming behind me.
The result was perfect. I won my bet and deflected the man's lance…!


So by the time stuff like The Taiganapping hapens we can UNDERSTAND te character and LIKE him and ROOTfor him and CARE about backstory and pay off.



This adaptation has absolutely no characterization for Shirou .In fact it goes out of its way to paint him as an idiot and pin the blame on him..


And for a story that has his character, personality and HIM himself as the central focus and our window into the world not getting that right makes everything fall apart.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:39 AM

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damastah said:
The graphics were pretty.



That's kinda all that matters. Anime = Animation. The animation needs to be flashy and stuff. 'Plot' 'plot' and Plot come after.
Praland said:
The sun is a deadly laser
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:40 AM

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June93 said:
To add, getting Shirou's character wrong is the biggest mistake one can make regarding the writing since the narrative as a whole hinges on his character and without it the whole affair is merely one vapid mess, as we have now. People seem to think that just getting the sequence of events right equals a proper adaptation but that's simply wrong, considering that the finer details that develop the themes of the original work is largely absent.


I agree with this to a point.

Although I do think they did a lot right, they did kind of miss the point of FSN with what could almost be called a POV switch. As much as I love Rin, giving Shirou the short stick really isn't going to do this story any favors in the long run.

This isn't even just about Monologues.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:43 AM
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Also one has to be concerned about Miura's comment regarding the message of UBW when looking at the first season with that as context. it gives me the impression that Miura sees this story being largely about Shirou fixing a problem he has, which is simply completely off the mark from what message(s) that the story is trying to relay and will only lead to contradictions when we finally see Answer animated.
Modified by ahncgj21, Apr 2, 2015 8:47 AM
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:43 AM

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WrongPriest said:
June93 said:
To add, getting Shirou's character wrong is the biggest mistake one can make regarding the writing since the narrative as a whole hinges on his character and without it the whole affair is merely one vapid mess, as we have now. People seem to think that just getting the sequence of events right equals a proper adaptation but that's simply wrong, considering that the finer details that develop the themes of the original work is largely absent.


I agree with this to a point.

Although I do think they did a lot right, they did kind of miss the point of FSN with what could almost be called a POV switch. As much as I love Rin, giving Shirou the short stick really isn't going to do this story any favors in the long run.

This isn't even just about Monologues.

^

Actually it is about proper characterization in a certain anime (j/k)

Even Rin I would not say they got right. They got her TSUN side right, but everything else? nOPE

June93 said:
Also one has to worry about Miura's comment about the message of this story as when using the first season as context it gives me the impression that Miura sees this story about Shirou fixing a problem he has, which is simply completely off the mark from what the story is actually trying to relay and will only lead to contradictions when we finally see Answer animated.


It was obvious from the start tbh we just interpreted his quotes about shirou wrong back then.

Miura called Shirou "an talentless dumb idiot who does stupid things because he is broken inside" back then.
 
Apr 2, 2015 8:46 AM

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mira-nyan said:
damastah said:
The graphics were pretty.



That's kinda all that matters. Anime = Animation. The animation needs to be flashy and stuff. 'Plot' 'plot' and Plot come after.

You and I are gonna be friends.
 
Apr 2, 2015 9:18 AM
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June93 said:
To add, getting Shirou's character wrong is the biggest mistake one can make regarding the writing since the narrative as a whole hinges on his character and without it the whole affair is merely one vapid mess, as we have now. People seem to think that just getting the sequence of events right equals a proper adaptation but that's simply wrong, considering that the finer details that develop the themes of the original work are largely absent.


Nicely said.

All some of us wanted from this adaptation was Shirou's proper characterization so we wouldn't have to go around arguing with several people that "Shirou is the biggest idiot of all times" because of DEENSHIT.

Also why does the secondary main character gets more monologues than the MC? It's not really hard unless the retarded directors don't even get the point of the story. I am getting tired of seeing this in adaptations. The MC's are mostly made to look like idiots and characterization is cut off.

Seriously why can't scenes be the same and why can't some monologues be added to Temple and Rider scenes? Scratch taiganapping, that can still be somewhat argued and most people complaining about scene falls to "My waifu Seiba could vaporize Caster" or "Emiya let my waifu get captured because was a idiot for wanting to save his sister". But the previous two scenes needed monologues or some kind of indication.

Sigh the rumors are really getting me down.

 
Apr 2, 2015 9:22 AM

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:


Sigh the rumors are really getting me down.


Pretty much, Lets just wait till it Airs lol

The rumors are way too shit to be true.
 
Apr 2, 2015 9:26 AM
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WrongPriest said:
Dragon_Slayer_X said:


Sigh the rumors are really getting me down.


Pretty much, Lets just wait till it Airs lol

The rumors are way too shit to be true.


Yeah i am sincerely hoping it's just some April Fool's joke........

 
Apr 2, 2015 9:29 AM
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I heard that animu event happening tomorrow is screening the first three episodes, so we should be getting some easier to understand spoilers.
 
Apr 2, 2015 9:29 AM

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:
WrongPriest said:


Pretty much, Lets just wait till it Airs lol

The rumors are way too shit to be true.


Yeah i am sincerely hoping it's just some April Fool's joke........

By....seven or ten different bloggers, one of whom is a fucking korean?
 
Apr 2, 2015 9:29 AM

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June93 said:
I heard that animu event happening tomorrow is screening the first three episodes, so we should be getting some easier to understand spoilers.


If I check tumblr or twitter and find a loto f"OMG SHIROU THE WORST" bullshit I will knwo the spoilers were true
 
Apr 2, 2015 9:41 AM
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CookingPriest said:
Dragon_Slayer_X said:


Yeah i am sincerely hoping it's just some April Fool's joke........

By....seven or ten different bloggers, one of whom is a fucking korean?


Oi don't kill my hope so soon (or at least until tomorrow) and calm down a bit yourself man.

 
Apr 2, 2015 9:53 AM

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You guys see Shirou like some God MC of fiction that needs SCENES AND SCENES in order to be understood or liked.SCREW all those that got it and liked him.Lets focus on those that didnt and shit on the anime.

And FFS Fai those scenes would hardly change the perception of him by casuals since they missed the point of many sce-.......

Oh what the hell you guys are just butthurt why do I even bother.

 
Apr 2, 2015 9:58 AM
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Excellent dismissal of the show's problems.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:02 AM
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Othi-tan said:
You guys see Shirou like some God MC of fiction that needs SCENES AND SCENES in order to be understood or liked.SCREW all those that got it and liked him.Lets focus on those that didnt and shit on the anime.


I am sorry but how is this related to wanting to see the actual characterization? I don't want to see people sprouting bs because of wrong characterization aka DEENNight. Seeing Shirou as some God MC isn't isn't the actual problem here so stop with your nonsense.


Othi-tan said:

And FFS Fai those scenes would hardly change the perception of him by casuals since they missed the point of many sce-.......


At least Fai and some of us won't have to scream 24/7 that those scenes were wrongly presented and not everyone is a casual who gets scenes wrong or doesn't understand.


Othi-tan said:

Oh what the hell you guys are just butthurt why do I even bother.


Are you any different? You are butthurt about people being butthurt right?

 
Apr 2, 2015 10:03 AM

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Okay so Cour 1 and Cour 2 subforums are now warzones? Okay.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:06 AM

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damastah said:
Okay so Cour 1 and Cour 2 subforums are now warzones? Okay.


Only because people keep antagonizing others. For all the complaining a certain user does here about another, he likes to poke the hornets nest.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:07 AM
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damastah said:
Okay so Cour 1 and Cour 2 subforums are now warzones? Okay.


They weren't?

I miss Fake(Ssjokg) vs Fai though.

 
Apr 2, 2015 10:09 AM
something here

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:
damastah said:
Okay so Cour 1 and Cour 2 subforums are now warzones? Okay.


They weren't?

I miss Fake(Ssjokg) vs Fai though.

Othi-tan is Fake/Ssjokg, so we actually still get that.

Also these subforums are hilarious af right now.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:11 AM

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Insertanamehere said:
Dragon_Slayer_X said:


They weren't?

I miss Fake(Ssjokg) vs Fai though.

Othi-tan is Fake/Ssjokg, so we actually still get that.

Exactly. It's now Othinus vs the Ambassador of Mapo Tofu these days.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:14 AM

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June93 said:
Excellent dismissal of the show's problems.
Excellent dismissal of the scenes that fix that and the viewers who are fine with it.

You are projecting your own issues as if it is the problem of every single causal, based on few posts over the internet as if people that dislike Shirou even after reading the VN dont exist.
You act as if some changes in scenes that dont matter will make a difference.OR that characterization that happened multiple times in the anime(being capable) doesn't exist for one missing monologue.

Yeah I am gonna leave again and enjoy the fuck out of the extra stuff we get in season
2 while you guys are still hung up on the opinions of the minority of casuals.


Well truth be told,you June at least had an issue with the anime from the early eps.Unlike Fai that just goes with the flow and now sees plotholes in places that were PERFECT before.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:14 AM

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I swear to chair Damastah, I will punch that little stickman in his almost perfectly round face if you don't put him away.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:15 AM
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Insertanamehere said:
Dragon_Slayer_X said:


They weren't?

I miss Fake(Ssjokg) vs Fai though.

Othi-tan is Fake/Ssjokg, so we actually still get that.


Really??? Really????

Did he change class or something other than username since he wasn't like this before.........as least i don't remember. Or is he matching Fai on the aggressive department?

I must have been away from FSN forums for a long time it seems.

 
Apr 2, 2015 10:16 AM

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WrongPriest said:
I swear to chair Damastah, I will punch that little stickman in his almost perfectly round face if you don't put him away.

 
Apr 2, 2015 10:17 AM

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Othi-tan said:
June93 said:
Excellent dismissal of the show's problems.
Excellent dismissal of the scenes that fix that and the viewers who are fine with it.

You are projecting your own issues as if it is the problem of every single causal, based on few posts over the internet as if people that dislike Shirou even after reading the VN dont exist.
You act as if some changes in scenes that dont matter will make a difference.OR that characterization that happened multiple times in the anime(being capable) doesn't exist for one missing monologue.

Yeah I am gonna leave again and enjoy the fuck out of the extra stuff we get in season
2 while you guys are still hung up on the opinions of the minority of casuals.


Well truth be told,you June at least had an issue with the anime from the early eps.Unlike Fai that just goes with the flow and now sees plotholes in places that were PERFECT before.


Stop projecting Fai's shit arguments onto the rest of us. We (I'm sure June included) don't give a rats ass what the "casuals" think.

We have problems with the adaptation personally.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:17 AM

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:
Insertanamehere said:

Othi-tan is Fake/Ssjokg, so we actually still get that.


Really??? Really????

Did he change class or something other than username since he wasn't like this before.........as least i don't remember. Or is he matching Fai on the aggressive department?

I must have been away from FSN forums for a long time it seems.


Welcome back to Unlimited Salt Works...hope you enjoy your stay in the MAL equivalent of Dead Sea.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:17 AM

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:
Insertanamehere said:

Othi-tan is Fake/Ssjokg, so we actually still get that.


Really??? Really????

Did he change class or something other than username since he wasn't like this before.........as least i don't remember. Or is he matching Fai on the aggressive department?

I must have been away from FSN forums for a long time it seems.


Apparently he likes provoking Fai, then he complains about Fai complaining. It's getting pretty old. This thing had died down until he came back provoking.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:18 AM

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nocorras said:
Dragon_Slayer_X said:


Really??? Really????

Did he change class or something other than username since he wasn't like this before.........as least i don't remember. Or is he matching Fai on the aggressive department?

I must have been away from FSN forums for a long time it seems.


Apparently he likes provoking Fai, then he complains about Fai complaining. It's getting pretty old. This thing had died down until he came back provoking.

This is all good for the grail.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:19 AM

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:
Insertanamehere said:

Othi-tan is Fake/Ssjokg, so we actually still get that.


Really??? Really????

Did he change class or something other than username since he wasn't like this before.........as least i don't remember. Or is he matching Fai on the aggressive department?

I must have been away from FSN forums for a long time it seems.


Yeah, something happened after he was away for a while and now he's as bad as Fai.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:21 AM

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Dragon_Slayer_X said:
Othi-tan said:
You guys see Shirou like some God MC of fiction that needs SCENES AND SCENES in order to be understood or liked.SCREW all those that got it and liked him.Lets focus on those that didnt and shit on the anime.


I am sorry but how is this related to wanting to see the actual characterization? I don't want to see people sprouting bs because of wrong characterization aka DEENNight. Seeing Shirou as some God MC isn't isn't the actual problem here so stop with your nonsense.


Othi-tan said:

And FFS Fai those scenes would hardly change the perception of him by casuals since they missed the point of many sce-.......


At least Fai and some of us won't have to scream 24/7 that those scenes were wrongly presented and not everyone is a casual who gets scenes wrong or doesn't understand.


Othi-tan said:

Oh what the hell you guys are just butthurt why do I even bother.


Are you any different? You are butthurt about people being butthurt right?
We do have characterization.In case you didnt notice it isnt the lack of that that makes some people talk bs.
With Rider for them it makes more sense to just stay there and get all 3 of them,Rin teh girl and Shirou, killed.
With Caster when Taiga is kidnapped it makes more sense for them to abandon Taiga.
With Shinji it makes more sense to them to beat the shit out of him in every scene they meet.
With Archer they side with the idea of killing people to get stronger and get mad at Shirou for disagreeing.

It isnt lack of characterization.Some people are dumb as fuck and some people dont care.

I am butthurt because I cant have fun in the forums anymore.
 
Apr 2, 2015 10:22 AM
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nocorras said:

Apparently he likes provoking Fai, then he complains about Fai complaining. It's getting pretty old. This thing had died down until he came back provoking.


So Fake vs Fai has leveled up quite a lot. Sigh and i really did enjoy seeing those two bicker before.

 
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