Im disappointed in the development of Shirou

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Jan 2015

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tsudecimo said:
He didn't have development yet, for you to be disappointed.

Unless you are one of those people, who don't know what character development means, and confuse it with ''characterization'' and ''Fleshing out'' .

Yeah thats my complaint. Because there's relatively no development, it only leads for you to go off of what we've seen him do, which is make mistakes.

Theres nothing to flesh out yet, because nothings really happened. Well, there has been some characterization - we know what kind of person he is, but nothing really more than that. we've seen him argue with Archer on occassion and know what he stands for.

But we dont get those deeper thoughts when he engages in romance, fun, or battle. theres no strategy, no contemplation, no emotions - its just a blank slate.

Mar 28, 2015 12:48 PM

#6

Mickdrew

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Shirou's image has been improved to anime only viewers, but it definitely could be better.

The thing is, there was always going to be a large group that doesn't like him - whether it's for the VN or the anime.
It's not specifically what Shirou does, but what he represents to some people that causes so much hate.

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Mar 28, 2015 12:48 PM

#7

tsudecimo

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Grapekiwi said:

But we dont get those deeper thoughts when he engages in romance

Thank god for that.

Can you give examples, of a scenes where they didn't show his inner thoughts, and they were important?

I do agree that he is kinda bland. Only scenes I found interesting, was his conversation with the female character from the Archery club, when he freaked out a bit, and remembered the fire, he also proved to think quickly, like how he protected himself against lancer.

Mar 28, 2015 12:54 PM

#8

laidellent

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Feb 2015

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tsudecimo said:

Grapekiwi said:

But we dont get those deeper thoughts when he engages in romance

Thank god for that.

Can you give examples, of a scenes where they didn't show his inner thoughts, and they were important?

I do agree that he is kinda bland. Only scenes I found interesting, was his conversation with the female character from the Archery club, when he freaked out a bit, and remembered the fire, he also proved to think quickly, like how he protected himself against lancer.

1.The date part was basically shown to make us realize that he feels he doesn't deserve to feel happy....

2.In ep 7,when he said to Archer ,"leave me alone I can deal with this" when Caster initially attacked them-it basically meant Shirou was worrying for Archer and he was hoping Archer would leave him there and deal with caster there at that moment-the anime portrayed him as a pighead.

3.The Rider scene-he knew something was off that's why he was baiting Rider by calling her weak to find out what was her intention-in the anime,he looked like a doofus.
There are couple of more instances...

Mar 28, 2015 12:55 PM

#9

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362

tsudecimo said:

Grapekiwi said:

But we dont get those deeper thoughts when he engages in romance

Thank god for that.

Can you give examples, of a scenes where they didn't show his inner thoughts, and they were important?

I do agree that he is kinda bland. Only scenes I found interesting, was his conversation with the female character from the Archery club, when he freaked out a bit, and remembered the fire, he also proved to think quickly, like how he protected himself against lancer.

Have you read the VN? I dont wanna speak freely and spoil anything, but there were certain key things like when he took on Lancer:

He planned to get to the shed because he could better defend himself there. he wasnt just beaten like a dog and accidently made it there.

The date with Rin and Saber. He internally felt disgusted with himself for feeling enjoyment from the event, something not touched on in the anime. His fight with Rin, he goes over his strategy and what he plans to do in his mind literally in and before every fight, but in the anime the fights make it seem like he's just reacting and hoping for the best/ lucky. It doesn't show that he actually has intent or is trying to get something done, which a few seconds of thought would accomplish.

What I meant by romance is what I touched on above, he actually feels certain things amidst his enjoyment that contradicts joy and pleasure. Those are just a few off hand, I'd need to go look at the VN - but just those thoughts and things would show a different side of him.

Mar 28, 2015 1:00 PM

#10

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chat77 said:
3.The Rider scene-he knew something was off that's why he was baiting Rider by calling her weak to find out what was her intention-in the anime,he looked like a doofus.
There are couple of more instances...

Not true.

He knew something was off after the initial attack (who wouldn't, dagger targeted at Rin specifically that disappears soon after it stabs the target?), but the part where he calls Rider weak is him getting over-confident.

Mar 28, 2015 1:02 PM

#11

tsudecimo

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chat77 said:

1.The date part was basically shown to make us realize that he feels he doesn't deserve to feel happy.

I already know that. Doesn't change, how most of it, is pure fanservice (especially Saber scenes). They don't need to shows 11 minutes of them having fun, to get that across. It also doesn't make those 11 minutes any less cringeworthy, I found them abysmal.

Grapekiwi said:

Have you read the VN? I dont wanna speak freely and spoil anything, but there were certain key things like when he took on Lancer:

He planned to get to the shed because he could better defend himself there. he wasnt just beaten like a dog and accidently made it there.

The date with Rin and Saber. He internally felt disgusted with himself for feeling enjoyment from the event, something not touched on in the anime. His fight with Rin, he goes over his strategy and what he plans to do in his mind literally in and before every fight, but in the anime the fights make it seem like he's just reacting and hoping for the best/ lucky. It doesn't show that he actually has intent or is trying to get something done, which a few seconds of thought would accomplish.

What I meant by romance is what I touched on above, he actually feels certain things amidst his enjoyment that contradicts joy and pleasure. Those are just a few off hand, I'd need to go look at the VN - but just those thoughts and things would show a different side of him.

I didn't read the VN, but I don't mind reading stuff about it, as long as it doesn't spoil future events on the 2nd cour.

Your first point, doesn't seem big. But if what you saying it's true, your second point is right, that would have been important to show, I never felt he was particularly smart, outside of defending himself against Lancer, and maybe his fall with Archer.

Thanks for the examples.

Mar 28, 2015 1:02 PM

#12

Insertanamehere

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tsudecimo said:

Grapekiwi said:

But we dont get those deeper thoughts when he engages in romance

Thank god for that.

Can you give examples, of a scenes where they didn't show his inner thoughts, and they were important?

And a few others though I can't really list them all.

InsertanamehereMar 28, 2015 1:06 PM

Mar 28, 2015 1:15 PM

#13

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Grapekiwi said:
His fight with Rin, he goes over his strategy and what he plans to do in his mind literally in and before every fight, but in the anime the fights make it seem like he's just reacting and hoping for the best/ lucky. It doesn't show that he actually has intent or is trying to get something done, which a few seconds of thought would accomplish.

Wouldn't work that well in anime form. Having monologues describing exactly what he will do the next second will make it look silly.
Reading something =/= watching something.

Furthermore, I disagree that it made him look like he got by luck; he didn't show any signs that things were happening conveniently for him. His jump down the stairs might have needed a monologue to make it clearer, but it is still hinted that it was a calculated move.

The first Gandr shot he dodges, also definitely wasn't luck, but his quick reflexes at work. The fact that he recognized Rin's bounded field and tried to escape through the window before he gets trapped, also wasn't luck. That he realized he needs a shield, also wasn't luck.

You don't need to be spoonfed his thoughts, if they can be shown and/or hinted at with visuals. There weren't any monologues that were too important in this fight, if you had used the temple fight as an example, then I would agree, but Rin vs. Shirou is fine as it is.

Mar 28, 2015 1:20 PM

#14

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GARBrotato said:

Grapekiwi said:
His fight with Rin, he goes over his strategy and what he plans to do in his mind literally in and before every fight, but in the anime the fights make it seem like he's just reacting and hoping for the best/ lucky. It doesn't show that he actually has intent or is trying to get something done, which a few seconds of thought would accomplish.

Wouldn't work that well in anime form. Having monologues describing exactly what he will do the next second will make it look silly.
Reading something =/= watching something.

Furthermore, I disagree that it made him look like he got by luck; he didn't show any signs that things were happening conveniently for him. His jump down the stairs might have needed a monologue to make it clearer, but it is still hinted that it was a calculated move.

The first Gandr shot he dodges, also definitely wasn't luck, but his quick reflexes at work. The fact that he recognized Rin's bounded field and tried to escape through the window before he gets trapped, also wasn't luck. That he realized he needs a shield, also wasn't luck.

You don't need to be spoonfed his thoughts, if they can be shown and/or hinted at with visuals. There weren't any monologues that were too important in this fight, if you had used the temple fight as an example, then I would agree, but Rin vs. Shirou is fine as it is.

Yeah youre right here. this fight isnt bad.

Mar 28, 2015 1:22 PM

#15

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GARBrotato said:

Grapekiwi said:
His fight with Rin, he goes over his strategy and what he plans to do in his mind literally in and before every fight, but in the anime the fights make it seem like he's just reacting and hoping for the best/ lucky. It doesn't show that he actually has intent or is trying to get something done, which a few seconds of thought would accomplish.

Wouldn't work that well in anime form. Having monologues describing exactly what he will do the next second will make it look silly.
Reading something =/= watching something.

Furthermore, I disagree that it made him look like he got by luck; he didn't show any signs that things were happening conveniently for him. His jump down the stairs might have needed a monologue to make it clearer, but it is still hinted that it was a calculated move.

Yet some other shows(hehehehe) manage to do perfect slomos for that to showcase how character things.

In anime it look slike he just was lucky Rin missed while in VN there's barely any moments when he does not have preplanned something few steps in advance.

Frankly I don't have too much problems with that fight although it would really have helped if they left in Shirou's "flab" insult repeat there, but alas, the show has way more problems every fucking where else.

There's shitload of moments that could have been solved by both better choreography(implying his monologues) and cut down parts of monologues.

As it stands anime only managed to portray maybe 20% of his character that should have been portrayed in first half, that being the part that he is broken psychologically and that his saving people intent is unhealthy, but that is clear in second half too and first half in VN is ALL ABOUT making him likeable and showcasing that he IS competent and capable.

All of that is missing.
So yeah. VN readers, most of them, the ones who are not blinded by hype, are angry.

Shirou is front and center of UBW and without proper representation of him as a person and his personality the whole show will fall apart, because a LOT of second half is all about:
- Viewers/readers liking Shirou as character and cheering for him.
- The story putting the things set up both lore and character wise, into action.
- Viewers/Readers understanding the dynamics of Shirou/Rin(Which show got entirely wrong)

None of that is possible with how Miura handled the first half.

Mar 28, 2015 1:23 PM

#16

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I remember attack on titan (not saying these were perfect) had like, 5 minutes of slowmo where Eren literally was talking to himself deciding what to do lmao

Mar 28, 2015 1:25 PM

#17

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CookingPriest said:
In anime it look slike he just was lucky Rin missed

That's just fucking wrong.

As I said, the first shot clearly wasn't luck. You'd have to be blind to think otherwise.

He quickly realizes the Gandr shot at him is different than what he knows, and makes a run for it, because standing still would be retarded (for slowpokes: Standing still makes you an easy target).

Mar 28, 2015 1:26 PM

#18

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Grapekiwi said:
I remember attack on titan (not saying these were perfect) had like, 5 minutes of slowmo where Eren literally was talking to himself deciding what to do lmao

Still better than how Ufo handled the lancer fight(where it just looks like he is getting kicked around aimlessly now) or The temple assasination(where it just looks he got lucky)

Honestly the biggest insult for me with this adaptation is how they generic-ized Shirou/Rin. In VN it was VERY dynamic pairing of back-and-forth with them taking turns trolling each other and being embarassed. Anime turned it into "generic tsundere teases and dominates a passive clueless guy" shit.

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:
In anime it look slike he just was lucky Rin missed

That's just fucking wrong.

I am talking about hallway run. It does not show his reflexes well enough barring his stair-jump-dodge thing he did.

Then again the show has absolutely no exposition at what kind of physical training Shirou does every fucking day so oh fucking well.

For FIrst shot:
- In VN he was executing a plan to where to run by that time.
- In ANime he looks like "Oh shit she shoots me gotta dodge".

Way more clueless and less intelligent.t

Mar 28, 2015 1:30 PM

#19

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CookingPriest said:

Grapekiwi said:
I remember attack on titan (not saying these were perfect) had like, 5 minutes of slowmo where Eren literally was talking to himself deciding what to do lmao

Still better than how Ufo handled the lancer fight(where it just looks like he is getting kicked around aimlessly now) or The temple assasination(where it just looks he got lucky)

Honestly the biggest insult for me with this adaptation is how they generic-ized Shirou/Rin. In VN it was VERY dynamic pairing of back-and-forth with them taking turns trolling each other and being embarassed. Anime turned it into "generic tsundere teases and dominates a passive clueless guy" shit.

GARBrotato said:

That's just fucking wrong.

I am talking about hallway run. It does not show his reflexes well enough barring his stair-jump-dodge thing he did.

Then again the show has absolutely no exposition at what kind of physical training Shirou does every fucking day so oh fucking well.

Way more clueless and less intelligent.t

Well, I guess standing up and being able to move milli seconds after breaking the sound barrier due to being kicked by a Servant CLEARLY doesn't show his body is built for combat or that he has high physical ability. My bad.

For FIrst shot:
- In VN he was executing a plan to where to run by that time.
- In ANime he looks like "Oh shit she shoots me gotta dodge".

Fucking wrong again, in the VN he goes "oh shit no time to think" then the player picks either jumping down the stairs (bad end) or running through the hallway.

BotatoMar 28, 2015 1:35 PM

Mar 28, 2015 1:31 PM

#20

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are you the one known as Fai ^ @ cooking

Mar 28, 2015 1:31 PM

#21

laidellent

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Grapekiwi said:
are you the one known as Fai ^ @ cooking

Yes ;)

Mar 28, 2015 1:33 PM

#22

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GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

Still better than how Ufo handled the lancer fight(where it just looks like he is getting kicked around aimlessly now) or The temple assasination(where it just looks he got lucky)

Honestly the biggest insult for me with this adaptation is how they generic-ized Shirou/Rin. In VN it was VERY dynamic pairing of back-and-forth with them taking turns trolling each other and being embarassed. Anime turned it into "generic tsundere teases and dominates a passive clueless guy" shit.

I am talking about hallway run. It does not show his reflexes well enough barring his stair-jump-dodge thing he did.

Then again the show has absolutely no exposition at what kind of physical training Shirou does every fucking day so oh fucking well.

For FIrst shot:
- In VN he was executing a plan to where to run by that time.
- In ANime he looks like "Oh shit she shoots me gotta dodge".

Way more clueless and less intelligent.t

Well, I guess standing up and being able to move milli seconds after breaking the sound barrier due to being kicked by a Servant CLEARLY doesn't show his body is built for combat or that he has high physical ability. My bad.

Without the actual explanations that he fucking trains, sadly most of anime onlies took it as LUCK and there are comments everywhere on how "Shirou needs to train".

THen Ufo removed the LINE where Saber outright states that Shirou's body is in top physical condition and the only training it needs is knowledge.

Mar 28, 2015 1:38 PM

#23

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CookingPriest said:

GARBrotato said:

Well, I guess standing up and being able to move milli seconds after breaking the sound barrier due to being kicked by a Servant CLEARLY doesn't show his body is built for combat or that he has high physical ability. My bad.

Without the actual explanations that he fucking trains, sadly most of anime onlies took it as LUCK and there are comments everywhere on how "Shirou needs to train".

THen Ufo removed the LINE where Saber outright states that Shirou's body is in top physical condition and the only training it needs is knowledge.

How do you count that as "luck" is beyond me.

They showed what Servants are capable of.
They showed that he broke the sound barrier.
He was still able to move and get to the shed despite the powerful hit he took. Not only that but he also followed that with a move that surprised Lancer, who also commented on it in case someone was slow enough to not get it.

Physical ability =/= luck.

And Saber's line isn't removed, it's still there in episode 7.

Mar 28, 2015 1:47 PM

#24

Mickdrew

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Grapekiwi said:
are you the one known as Fai ^ @ cooking

Behold, the anomaly that is Fai in the flesh!

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Mar 28, 2015 1:50 PM

#25

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GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

Without the actual explanations that he fucking trains, sadly most of anime onlies took it as LUCK and there are comments everywhere on how "Shirou needs to train".

THen Ufo removed the LINE where Saber outright states that Shirou's body is in top physical condition and the only training it needs is knowledge.

How do you count that as "luck" is beyond me.

They showed what Servants are capable of.
They showed that he broke the sound barrier.
He was still able to move and get to the shed despite the powerful hit he took. Not only that but he also followed that with a move that surprised Lancer, who also commented on it in case someone was slow enough to not get it.

Physical ability =/= luck.

And Saber's line isn't removed, it's still there in episode 7.

Plot armor. Then again the personality aspect is more misrepresented.

Mickdrew said:

Grapekiwi said:
are you the one known as Fai ^ @ cooking

Behold, the anomaly that is Fai in the flesh!

Not an anomaly. Plenty of VN readers feel the way I do.

Mar 28, 2015 1:53 PM

#26

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Nov 2013

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CookingPriest said:

GARBrotato said:

How do you count that as "luck" is beyond me.

They showed what Servants are capable of.
They showed that he broke the sound barrier.
He was still able to move and get to the shed despite the powerful hit he took. Not only that but he also followed that with a move that surprised Lancer, who also commented on it in case someone was slow enough to not get it.

Physical ability =/= luck.

And Saber's line isn't removed, it's still there in episode 7.

Plot armor. Then again the personality aspect is more misrepresented.

Yeah right, how could I forget, but somehow True End isn't.

Mar 28, 2015 2:00 PM

#27

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Jul 2007

23708

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

Grapekiwi said:
I remember attack on titan (not saying these were perfect) had like, 5 minutes of slowmo where Eren literally was talking to himself deciding what to do lmao

Still better than how Ufo handled the lancer fight(where it just looks like he is getting kicked around aimlessly now) or The temple assasination(where it just looks he got lucky)

Honestly the biggest insult for me with this adaptation is how they generic-ized Shirou/Rin. In VN it was VERY dynamic pairing of back-and-forth with them taking turns trolling each other and being embarassed. Anime turned it into "generic tsundere teases and dominates a passive clueless guy" shit.

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:
In anime it look slike he just was lucky Rin missed

That's just fucking wrong.

I am talking about hallway run. It does not show his reflexes well enough barring his stair-jump-dodge thing he did.

Then again the show has absolutely no exposition at what kind of physical training Shirou does every fucking day so oh fucking well.

For FIrst shot:
- In VN he was executing a plan to where to run by that time.
- In ANime he looks like "Oh shit she shoots me gotta dodge".

Way more clueless and less intelligent.t

Well, I guess standing up and being able to move milli seconds after breaking the sound barrier due to being kicked by a Servant CLEARLY doesn't show his body is built for combat or that he has high physical ability. My bad.

Without the actual explanations that he fucking trains, sadly most of anime onlies took it as LUCK and there are comments everywhere on how "Shirou needs to train".

THen Ufo removed the LINE where Saber outright states that Shirou's body is in top physical condition and the only training it needs is knowledge.

How do you count that as "luck" is beyond me.

They showed what Servants are capable of.
They showed that he broke the sound barrier.
He was still able to move and get to the shed despite the powerful hit he took. Not only that but he also followed that with a move that surprised Lancer, who also commented on it in case someone was slow enough to not get it.

Physical ability =/= luck.

And Saber's line isn't removed, it's still there in episode 7.

Plot armor. Then again the personality aspect is more misrepresented.

Yeah right, how could I forget, but somehow True End isn't.

An opponent praising a shonen protagonist for no reason at all is done often.

The thing is - viewers do not get to get impressed just because someone tells them they should
SHOWING him actually do shit as in VN would achieve it.

Mar 28, 2015 2:10 PM

#28

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Nov 2013

22765

CookingPriest said:

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:

Grapekiwi said:
I remember attack on titan (not saying these were perfect) had like, 5 minutes of slowmo where Eren literally was talking to himself deciding what to do lmao

Still better than how Ufo handled the lancer fight(where it just looks like he is getting kicked around aimlessly now) or The temple assasination(where it just looks he got lucky)

Honestly the biggest insult for me with this adaptation is how they generic-ized Shirou/Rin. In VN it was VERY dynamic pairing of back-and-forth with them taking turns trolling each other and being embarassed. Anime turned it into "generic tsundere teases and dominates a passive clueless guy" shit.

GARBrotato said:

CookingPriest said:
In anime it look slike he just was lucky Rin missed

That's just fucking wrong.

I am talking about hallway run. It does not show his reflexes well enough barring his stair-jump-dodge thing he did.

Then again the show has absolutely no exposition at what kind of physical training Shirou does every fucking day so oh fucking well.

For FIrst shot:
- In VN he was executing a plan to where to run by that time.
- In ANime he looks like "Oh shit she shoots me gotta dodge".

Way more clueless and less intelligent.t

Well, I guess standing up and being able to move milli seconds after breaking the sound barrier due to being kicked by a Servant CLEARLY doesn't show his body is built for combat or that he has high physical ability. My bad.

Without the actual explanations that he fucking trains, sadly most of anime onlies took it as LUCK and there are comments everywhere on how "Shirou needs to train".

THen Ufo removed the LINE where Saber outright states that Shirou's body is in top physical condition and the only training it needs is knowledge.

How do you count that as "luck" is beyond me.

They showed what Servants are capable of.
They showed that he broke the sound barrier.
He was still able to move and get to the shed despite the powerful hit he took. Not only that but he also followed that with a move that surprised Lancer, who also commented on it in case someone was slow enough to not get it.

Physical ability =/= luck.

And Saber's line isn't removed, it's still there in episode 7.

Plot armor. Then again the personality aspect is more misrepresented.

Yeah right, how could I forget, but somehow True End isn't.

An opponent praising a shonen protagonist for no reason at all is done often.

The thing is - viewers do not get to get impressed just because someone tells them they should
SHOWING him actually do shit as in VN would achieve it.

How is this relevant?

No they don't, but as I said it was clear that Shirou was competent in that scene, what Lancer said only points that out.
The show DID show him do shit. It doesn't need to go all "OH LOOK! SHIROU IS DOING SHIT!! HE IS SO SMART LOOK AT HIM" which is exactly how it would be if we got every single monologue like you want.

Just because it is Shirou monologue-ing about it instead of a character commenting on his action, doesn't make it any different. In both cases the viewer is spoonfed information by the show.

Let me make it clear that I am not saying monologues are bad, or that the show is perfect without them, I am simply saying most of your examples are nitpicks at best.

Mickdrew said:
Shirou's image has been improved to anime only viewers, but it definitely could be better.

The thing is, there was always going to be a large group that doesn't like him - whether it's for the VN or the anime.
It's not specifically what Shirou does, but what he represents to some people that causes so much hate.

I just saw this.

Yes his image could definitely be better.

And yes people would still hate him even if the adaptation was a perfect replica of the VN. And I am not only talking about prejudice from some people, which it definitely exists, but a lot of VN readers don't think he's that amazing either.

Let's not kid ourselves, sure 99% of VN readers appreciate his character, but not all of them consider Shirou to be the best character ever and that it's a crime to not like him. There are quite a few that prefer Archer, some even prefer Kotomine and find him a hell of a lot more interesting than Shirou, and some prefer Kiritsugu over him any day.

BotatoMar 28, 2015 2:20 PM

Mar 28, 2015 4:15 PM

#29

BloodRequiem

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Apr 2012

3643

Agreed. I've been waiting for 13 episodes already for him to turn into the dual wielding alpha misogynist.

As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.

Mar 29, 2015 4:29 AM

#30

Sephcloud

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May 2011

653

objectively means nowaday: being a nitpick and thiniking like a secondaries would, expecting viewers to not make some effort to get the show.

Right

Well i objectively thought that after having played the VN 4 years ago, that Shirou was a Badass and not a Dumbass in this new adaptation because you see, he have done shit and all, because i am not objectively biased in thinking that the Hero of this show must of course be a dumbass at his core. And that Rin is so cool !

Grapekiwi said:
The lack of monologues, the lack of his reasoning behind decisions, even a few seconds, just a few of him thinking would change the scene entirely.

99% of my friends who haven't read the VN think the same thing: Shirou is an idiot and they all want Rin to kill him or some strange combination of some dishonorable death and sorrow to befall Shirou.

Im just sad that even Rin gets monologues and is shown in a relatively intelligent light on the battlefield, via her strategy or even quick decisions.

Probably going to get bashed, but whatever, Im enjoying the show and am very much looking forward to cour 2. I just wish Shirou could of been fleshed out a bit more. He honestly doesnt talk much (about important things) and all the major things non-vn readers have seen so far has been mistakes and failures.

I just think the above character development wouldve changed perspective on a lot of these scenes, instead of making him look stupid and weak.

guess what 99% of mine think Shirou is clear wits and that he is strong, and they haven't played the VN, they don't even think of killing the character, because they GET him.

oh but Fai will comme in and say: they are objectively saying shit. cause you know, only the bad counts, and the good doesn't.

Mar 29, 2015 4:37 AM

#31

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Feb 2009

1195

They got him? They got his lack of sense of self? His disgust with himself ever feeling happy? They got his inner conflict about what it really means to be a hero? They got that he is a person that doesn't blindly charge without actually carefully thinking and is in fact quite intelligent and a quick study?

Without you saying anything? Without you giving any indication before, during or after watching about the nature of his character and what to expect?

Is that what you're saying?

Well I guess you must be hanging out with some sort of espers.

Stev said:
ayy lmao

Mar 29, 2015 4:39 AM

#32

OneTrueEmiya

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Mar 2015

5453

BloodRequiem said:
Agreed. I've been waiting for 13 episodes already for him to turn into the dual wielding alpha misogynist.

Oh don't worry, he's getting there.
Next stop: Jackhammer time~

Mar 29, 2015 4:58 AM

#33

Offline

Jul 2007

23708

HungryPriest said:
They got him? They got his lack of sense of self? His disgust with himself ever feeling happy? They got his inner conflict about what it really means to be a hero? They got that he is a person that doesn't blindly charge without actually carefully thinking and is in fact quite intelligent and a quick study?

Without you saying anything? Without you giving any indication before, during or after watching about the nature of his character and what to expect?

Is that what you're saying?

Well I guess you must be hanging out with some sort of espers.

Special kind of friends.
The ones who always get it and understand
The imaginary kind of friends.

Mar 29, 2015 5:02 AM

#34

AirConditioner

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Jan 2014

5648

My friends think Shirou is bad, too. I have to explain his actions and reasonings every time anime messes up.

Mar 29, 2015 5:16 AM

#35

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Jul 2007

23708

WormPriest said:
My friends think Shirou is bad, too. I have to explain his actions and reasonings every time anime messes up.

Sad thing it usually just takes ONE FUCKING SCRENESHOT of one or two lines from VN for them to go "OH!".

Fucking miura.

Explaining taiganapping and why shirou was like that there took longer, but I just posted shirou's thoughts about caster at the temple as reasoning on why he things they can't win against her.

Mar 29, 2015 5:19 AM

#36

Grey-Zone

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Oct 2014

6937

normalpriest said:
objectively means nowaday: being a nitpick and thiniking like a secondaries would, expecting viewers to not make some effort to get the show.

Right

Well i objectively thought that after having played the VN 4 years ago, that Shirou was a Badass and not a Dumbass in this new adaptation because you see, he have done shit and all, because i am not objectively biased in thinking that the Hero of this show must of course be a dumbass at his core. And that Rin is so cool !

Grapekiwi said:
The lack of monologues, the lack of his reasoning behind decisions, even a few seconds, just a few of him thinking would change the scene entirely.

99% of my friends who haven't read the VN think the same thing: Shirou is an idiot and they all want Rin to kill him or some strange combination of some dishonorable death and sorrow to befall Shirou.

Im just sad that even Rin gets monologues and is shown in a relatively intelligent light on the battlefield, via her strategy or even quick decisions.

Probably going to get bashed, but whatever, Im enjoying the show and am very much looking forward to cour 2. I just wish Shirou could of been fleshed out a bit more. He honestly doesnt talk much (about important things) and all the major things non-vn readers have seen so far has been mistakes and failures.

I just think the above character development wouldve changed perspective on a lot of these scenes, instead of making him look stupid and weak.

guess what 99% of mine think Shirou is clear wits and that he is strong, and they haven't played the VN, they don't even think of killing the character, because they GET him.

oh but Fai will comme in and say: they are objectively saying shit. cause you know, only the bad counts, and the good doesn't.

He will not. Seems he set both of us on his ignore list script.

I made a post earlier where I demonstrated in another thread how I was able to recognise most tracks by the first time I listened to the OST. Obviously no one dared to react to it, aside from you.

Mar 29, 2015 6:35 AM

#37

Sephcloud

Offline

May 2011

653

HungryPriest said:
They got him? They got his lack of sense of self? His disgust with himself ever feeling happy? They got his inner conflict about what it really means to be a hero? They got that he is a person that doesn't blindly charge without actually carefully thinking and is in fact quite intelligent and a quick study?

Without you saying anything? Without you giving any indication before, during or after watching about the nature of his character and what to expect?

Is that what you're saying?

Well I guess you must be hanging out with some sort of espers.

Lack of sense ?
Checked
Disgust with himself ? Checked
inner conflict of what is to be a hero: well unless you are a secondary which is not my friends case: Checked
They got that he was fast thinking, and clear wits so i'm pretty sure it's checked

And i didn't need to give them some freaking indication -_- because: ITS IN THE FREAKING ANIME ! Wants me to point the scene for you ?! Why should i because you know as mush as me that those scenes ARE in it... Yeah true, we didn't get monologues, instead the character had to interact with each other and talk so that we get the information.

But apparently my friend are ESP or imaginary because they are not like Fai and his followers.

Well damn it sorry to tell you that they are not only secondaries watching this show wo want to put it in the garbage can ! Maybe if you would not spend your effing time trying to find some comments on whatever you find them, you wouldn't be OBJECTIVELY biased on this show.

The only 2 points even myself didn't get was: the retreat from Kuzuki and Sensei. Which we clearly can get by rewatching the damn scene where tohsaka said saber was taken by surprise.

and the taiga thread, at the time i was like: wait what, but then

i did some thing very incredible

I ACTUALLY HAD A THOUGHT ABOUT IT yeah, some thing very rare on this day.

Like: Why did he do that, what would really happen if he didn't and what was the extent of caster grasp.

And we all know he had to do the command spell thing.

But of course, for M fai great thinker of every one here, people has to be basically fucking negative on a show and try to see all the damn problem instead of trying to sort by themselves what's really going on.

Grey-Zone said:

normalpriest said:
objectively means nowaday: being a nitpick and thiniking like a secondaries would, expecting viewers to not make some effort to get the show.

Right

Well i objectively thought that after having played the VN 4 years ago, that Shirou was a Badass and not a Dumbass in this new adaptation because you see, he have done shit and all, because i am not objectively biased in thinking that the Hero of this show must of course be a dumbass at his core. And that Rin is so cool !

guess what 99% of mine think Shirou is clear wits and that he is strong, and they haven't played the VN, they don't even think of killing the character, because they GET him.

oh but Fai will comme in and say: they are objectively saying shit. cause you know, only the bad counts, and the good doesn't.

He will not. Seems he set both of us on his ignore list script.

I made a post earlier where I demonstrated in another thread how I was able to recognise most tracks by the first time I listened to the OST. Obviously no one dared to react to it, aside from you.

well in the end he respond and think my friend are imaginary, damn, so that would mean i am continuously on crack since i'm still seeing them.

well guesst what: i think the comments you find are imaginary and that all the people saying shit on this show are delusionnal and possessed by Satan.

SephcloudMar 29, 2015 6:45 AM

Mar 29, 2015 6:59 AM

#38

Offline

Feb 2009

1195

Sephcloud said:
Wants me to point the scene for you ?! Why should i because you know as mush as me that those scenes ARE in it...

Wow. Such argument. Much amaze. You can read my mind now? Guess you and your friends really are espers.

The only thing that the anime shows is how Shirou is fucked up in some way. We're not told or shown anything more than that. Except maybe a bit with Rider a bit. But that's only one scene.

Stev said:
ayy lmao

Mar 29, 2015 10:09 AM

#39

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Aug 2009

20024

HungryPriest said:

Sephcloud said:
Wants me to point the scene for you ?! Why should i because you know as mush as me that those scenes ARE in it...

Wow. Such argument. Much amaze. You can read my mind now? Guess you and your friends really are espers.

The only thing that the anime shows is how Shirou is fucked up in some way. We're not told or shown anything more than that. Except maybe a bit with Rider a bit. But that's only one scene.

Why do we need more scenes?

Mar 29, 2015 10:23 AM

#40

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Feb 2009

1195

Othi-tan said:

HungryPriest said:

Wow. Such argument. Much amaze. You can read my mind now? Guess you and your friends really are espers.

The only thing that the anime shows is how Shirou is fucked up in some way. We're not told or shown anything more than that. Except maybe a bit with Rider a bit. But that's only one scene.

Why do we need more scenes?

Did I say we do?

Stev said:
ayy lmao

Mar 29, 2015 10:53 AM

#41

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Aug 2009

20024

HungryPriest said:

Othi-tan said:

Why do we need more scenes?

Did I say we do?

Bolded.

I took it as not being enough.

Mar 29, 2015 11:11 AM

#42

Offline

Feb 2009

1195

Ah, that. One scene does not establish a character. Bit of one side of him, maybe. If you think it's enough, well...

kek

Stev said:
ayy lmao

Mar 29, 2015 11:22 AM

#43

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Aug 2009

20024

HungryPriest said:
Ah, that. One scene does not establish a character. Bit of one side of him, maybe. If you think it's enough, well...

kek

Subjective.You dont need to repeat stuff over and over again to pass a message(VN style).If people can connect the dots is another thing.

Mar 29, 2015 11:34 AM

#44

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Feb 2009

1195

Of course. You shouldn't repeat stuff. But you should show various parts of him. Not only one. Once. You can't make a picture (or even a single line) from one dot.

Stev said:
ayy lmao

Mar 29, 2015 11:43 AM

#45

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Aug 2009

20024

HungryPriest said:
Of course. You shouldn't repeat stuff. But you should show various parts of him. Not only one. Once. You can't make a picture (or even a single line) from one dot.

Can you tell me how many parts Shirou has?

Mar 29, 2015 11:58 AM

#46

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Feb 2009

1195

As much as any other human. Guess you never heard about the Big Five.

You should work on that trolling. This was a really bad one.

Stev said:
ayy lmao

Mar 29, 2015 11:58 AM

#47

Sephcloud

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May 2011

653

people just wants this show being a continuous monologue apparently so

Mar 29, 2015 12:05 PM

#48

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Feb 2009

1195

Is it a strawman sales day?

Stev said:
ayy lmao

Mar 29, 2015 12:23 PM

#49

Read this if you want to start the Fate/ series but don't know from where.

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Aug 2009

20024

HungryPriest said:
As much as any other human. Guess you never heard about the Big Five.

You should work on that trolling. This was a really bad one.

It isnt trolling.
I am wondering how many parts you people see in him.

I see him in the anime as:
capable
quick at adapting on the situation
traumatized from the fire
adopted Kerry's ideal and dream
knows that it is impossible but wants to deny it

What else of GREAT IMPORTANCE is there?

Mar 29, 2015 1:51 PM

#50