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Poll: Cross Ange: Tenshi to Ryuu no Rondo Episode 22 Discussion


Mar 8, 2015 12:55 PM

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So I guess Momoka is an indestructible maid getting hit by a car and making breakfast the next morning. Best waifu material.
And I guess we got Tusk pulling Houdini shit, somehow surviving suicide bombing without explanation.
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Mar 8, 2015 1:04 PM

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Mormegil said:
LMAO this show.

At least those two finally had sex. Now I'm waiting for Hilda x Tusk x Ange END. If Hilda is all alone in the end, I'm going to be pissed.


doesn't she got like a mini harem going on.
"Yo, Buddy. Still alive?" -Solo Wing Pixy, AC:Zero (best game ever)
 
Mar 8, 2015 1:10 PM
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kickmesign said:
So I guess Momoka is an indestructible maid getting hit by a car and making breakfast the next morning. Best waifu material.
And I guess we got Tusk pulling Houdini shit, somehow surviving suicide bombing without explanation.


Earlier in this thread, there were some explanations from Fukuda. They're rather lame in my opinion though.
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Mar 8, 2015 1:11 PM

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Stupid, Ange is really stupid, just the 1st guy that showed up in her life and she sleeps with him, she is so easy...and it's stupid that they all are alive, really, f*ck...At least Ersha is opening her eyes.
 
Mar 8, 2015 1:12 PM
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Accelelolita said:
Barion-Zara said:
Dat Spanking XD Even though it was obvious, what a copout...A frying pan?! Really? LOL

Top Maid alright ROFL...And Ange went straight for the D :3...Damn that was a hot straddle she did there.

Lucky bastard Tusk :P...How the hell did he survive though and does Embryo know I wonder?

Liking the outfits they have at the end, esp Tusk's black and red suit.

I agreed with you, that suit looks good, but Ange's purple/pink suit is not that good to me...


I created an account to reply to you. Isn't it Tusk's mom's suit?

 
Mar 8, 2015 1:20 PM

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????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Thats pretty much my reaction to this episode.
I would have been fine if they EXPLAINED how Tusk and Momoka came back. Like was it the ring that called them back from the dead? IS it an illusion? Cause we know that Embryo makes REALLY convincing illusions. Or did they just simply have plot armor?

Other than that, the rest of the episode was really good. I had a feeling Ersha would defect when Embryo would inevitably tell her he cant/wont bring the girls back. I did not expect Salia to STILL serve Embryo.

I'm really curious though... the ring and that song were said to be the rules of the universe. And singing that song would allow you to bend the rules. I'm wondering if Ange can in fact bring people back from the dead with that power? That would be a nice way to end the series. She brings everyone back to start all over.
Not going to happen I am well aware. But still, its a nice thought.

Mormegil said:
LMAO this show.

At least those two finally had sex. Now I'm waiting for Hilda x Tusk x Ange END. If Hilda is all alone in the end, I'm going to be pissed.


I agree! Hilda deserves some damn happiness!
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Mar 8, 2015 1:27 PM

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PhoenixGurl said:
Accelelolita said:

I agreed with you, that suit looks good, but Ange's purple/pink suit is not that good to me...


I created an account to reply to you. Isn't it Tusk's mom's suit?



his father...... I'm trying not to compare
"Yo, Buddy. Still alive?" -Solo Wing Pixy, AC:Zero (best game ever)
 
Mar 8, 2015 1:31 PM

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Well... not be annoying but this was probably the worst episode of the show. They did a horrible, and very forced Deus ex Machina here and they didn't even explain what actually happened; my theory is that they aren't actually Momoka and Tusk because how the hell can they be unharmed after all that stuff... only Embryo can heal people in that manner, and I doubt he would heal those two unless he found them useful. Also what was all the meaning behind last week's episode after this? Almost all of which was achieved and made important (emotionally) on episode 21 was highlighted at the start of this episode just to send it to the thrash with that end. Saddening.

Also, I do know that sex it's a representation of love, like it's the final form of giving yourself to another person and it has a lot of meaning... but the way Ange just "Oh he's alive... and I'm pretty depressed right now so let's fuck. That way I can get to have a positive look on the world who I saw as completely shitty seconds ago"... Am I the only one who saw it like this?

The whole scene was rushed, a bit forced and personally I couldn't grasp genuine feelings from both sides; Ange just wanted anything to prove her that the guy was still alive and there was still time to give herself to him. And damn Tusk just basically let her have her way with him. Seeing her broken like that I would have expected more fluff from his part; trying to calm her down, soothe her, make her know he is there. I kind of saw him as that type of guy who doesn't want to see her sad not just "Lol in the wrong moment i'm acting dumb and not serious as in other emotional moments where i finally got my shit together... but well we're talking about sex so... whatever she wants the D".
Bad... just bad.

Also why isn't it shown how was Momoka saved from that fall and getting hit by that damn car but instead they say "Look frying pan ftw". ... Please at least be more clever... Deus ex Machina get annoying when they're totally unrealistic...

Anyways, good things about today's episode; Ersha... she finally got her shit together once she saw just how elitist is Embryo, Salia... girl you and Chris need to calm down and notice what's happening around you or else you'll get even more mad and lose yourself. It's interesting how the emotional scars of feeling rejected/pushed away keep on affecting them even after they separated from the origin of that "trauma". Another interesting thing was how Jill/Alektra felt a little of guilt and remorse from the way Salia is acting on behalf of Embryo since she needs someone to acknowledge her and that someone was never her even though the poor girl always did her best.
Rosalie's conflicting feelings towards Chris, whom she loves, after killing one of her kouhai was also a good way to spice what will happen once both of them have to clash in battle in the future.
Hilda well... sorry... Ange probably won't be yours. Well, I doubt it. But you may... long for her? ... Just do your best, you seem happy on the preview so let's hope you stay happy until you get to know she's no longer a virgin lol.

I expect they do a better work on the next episode :/
Modified by Asria_Y, Mar 8, 2015 1:34 PM
x3
 
Mar 8, 2015 2:06 PM

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It was good to see Tusk and Momoko are alive.
 
Mar 8, 2015 2:30 PM
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This series never fails to entertain me. This is one of the reason why I watch anime. Not because of series that raise deep philosophical questions or brilliant plots (mediums such as books are often better for those) but because of the illogical crazy mess that comes with the medium.
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
Mar 8, 2015 2:42 PM

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I am curious... How many bra sizes will you gain by using a frying pan to stuff these places?
 
Mar 8, 2015 2:47 PM

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This episode was fucking stupid lol.

They had sex,meh.

Maid alive,don't care (like anyone really thought she was dead).

This show really went full autistic when it started to attempt to have plot (especially in the last 4-5 episodes),just want Embryo to die now and for this to end.

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Mar 8, 2015 3:58 PM
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LOL F' it. Just go with it and enjoy the sweet Sunrise mecha battles.

I do love how the writers basically said we figured out explanations in the writing room but didn't want to waste time with boring stuff so, meh, plot armor (literally), ninja skills, and a frying pan FTW! Troll, baby, troll.

You want clever plot and rational explanations? Go watch Steins;gate.

10/10 episode for the show embracing what it is. A hot mess of stupid mecha battles and ecchi.
 
Mar 8, 2015 4:22 PM

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LOL this show went deeper into the rabbit hole for what it really is.
 
Mar 8, 2015 4:34 PM

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What a train wreck, and I had such high expectations for this show before. I expected Tusk and Momoka to be alive, but seriously, this sort of deus ex is not even trying.

Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol.
 
Mar 8, 2015 4:42 PM
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(kinda new to forums) I think in the end,it would have been counterproductive to the anime to not have tusk(perhaps momoka was too much but still) come back to live since it would have meant a more rushed ending product at the end,since it still has just 3 episodes after this to wrap things up, it could have meant even more depth to the character but i think with this episode they wanted to finally give the character of ange a sense of determination lacking before, and that explainign their comming back would have meant ading extra drama and hence just rushing things even more than they already are. Of course it could have been a better episode but the way it went was the most inteligent production-wise,if this wasn't a 25 episode anime then i would have been way pissed off but i understand the directors and producers intent with this episode and so i think it's a good episode,just good. sorry if it was too long for a forum post, anyone reading this have a nice day/night.
 
Mar 8, 2015 5:07 PM

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Rebelhero said:

Mormegil said:

At least those two finally had sex. Now I'm waiting for Hilda x Tusk x Ange END. If Hilda is all alone in the end, I'm going to be pissed.


I agree! Hilda deserves some damn happiness!


I do agree, but that end it's not the happiness that she deserve! She deserve someone better than Ange and the hell with Tusk...

Asria_Y said:
Also, I do know that sex it's a representation of love, like it's the final form of giving yourself to another person and it has a lot of meaning... but the way Ange just "Oh he's alive... and I'm pretty depressed right now so let's fuck. That way I can get to have a positive look on the world who I saw as completely shitty seconds ago"... Am I the only one who saw it like this?

The whole scene was rushed, a bit forced and personally I couldn't grasp genuine feelings from both sides; Ange just wanted anything to prove her that the guy was still alive and there was still time to give herself to him. And damn Tusk just basically let her have her way with him. Seeing her broken like that I would have expected more fluff from his part; trying to calm her down, soothe her, make her know he is there. I kind of saw him as that type of guy who doesn't want to see her sad not just "Lol in the wrong moment i'm acting dumb and not serious as in other emotional moments where i finally got my shit together... but well we're talking about sex so... whatever she wants the D".
Bad... just bad.
/


I agree with almost everything you said Asria_Y, specially about the sex part, that's why I think it was so stupid, I mean, Murano and Shinichi (Kiseijuu) sex scene was lovely! It was sweet, you could see their feelings in it, now Ange was just stupid: "Oh if I knew he would die I could have left him do all the way" WTF! Stupid, this was like many people said here the worst episode, and like you I agree that Ersha was the only good thing in the whole episode.
 
Mar 8, 2015 5:17 PM

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Jesus, Ange was Horny .-.
 
Mar 8, 2015 5:23 PM

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A lot of people disliked this episode because of the sex scene, like grow up there are plenty of those in many shows (I'm pointing towards american shows specifically) like you guys need to simmer down.

Although Tusk and Momoka being alive shouldn't have happened imo, the two of them clearly loved each other from their previous encounters (KEEP IN MIND THEY ALMOST HAD SEX A GOOD FEW EPISODES AGO BEFORE THEY WERE INTERRUPTED)

So in defense of Ange's action of having sex with Tusk upon seeing him isn't too surprising or bad in the least.
 
Mar 8, 2015 5:52 PM

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EverydaySoCloudy said:
A lot of people disliked this episode because of the sex scene, like grow up there are plenty of those in many shows (I'm pointing towards american shows specifically) like you guys need to simmer down.

Really?

I'm sure just like the other 95% of people that watched this episode didn't really care that much that they had sex but because of the BS reasons that lead to them having it.
 
Mar 8, 2015 5:56 PM

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Man, the episode was so good up till right at the end lol, things were getting serious and hype and then it just went right back to lulztown

At least the sex made more sense than a certain other show this week, lol.

Local knight and maid are FUCKING INVINCIBLE
 
Mar 8, 2015 6:01 PM

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Cross Ange gets Cross ange-ier every week. and lewdier.
 
Mar 8, 2015 6:02 PM

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EverydaySoCloudy said:
A lot of people disliked this episode because of the sex scene, like grow up there are plenty of those in many shows (I'm pointing towards american shows specifically) like you guys need to simmer down.

Although Tusk and Momoka being alive shouldn't have happened imo, the two of them clearly loved each other from their previous encounters (KEEP IN MIND THEY ALMOST HAD SEX A GOOD FEW EPISODES AGO BEFORE THEY WERE INTERRUPTED)

So in defense of Ange's action of having sex with Tusk upon seeing him isn't too surprising or bad in the least.


I think it's not so much the sex scene that people are angry with, but with the practically non-existent plot and overly-generous helpings of plot armor being thrown in and around everywhere.

Consider this, Tusk comes back completely free of any injuries or scars after being shot, cut, and blown to pieces in front of everyone's face. Worse than that, Momoka gets shot and somehow still manages to reach the island with Tusk. Consider Ange only arrived at the island in the middle of nowhere maybe a day or two ahead of them, how the heck did they recover so quickly, regroup so quickly, FIND AND STEAL non-mana usable transport (in a Country which is based with Mana-users ONLY) without being detected by Embryo (who pretty much owns the entire Country and it's puppet-like people), to reach the island just days, if not hours behind Ange???

The inconsistency of the plot just blows ones mind, and only those who are in to watch this show for the mindless eye-candy would be able to enjoy what this show has become. They started the show off so seriously, but once Tusk's character was introduced, this shows tag as a story/plot-driven show was pretty much thrown out the window.

It wasn't so bad when they threw in the spanner about the alternate-world, but once they throw in all this deus ex machina of "Oh yeah I got blown up so hard that all my injuries healed up instantly and I miraculously found some nice and clean new clothes, and a way to get to you almost immediately after sending you off so that I could arrive, with Momoka in tow, who got saved by a frying pan, to save you from your wallowing despairing self, despite me being in a hostile city where everyone else was a puppet under Embryo and still trying to shoot my ass up. Now lets have happy sex on a beach" bullshit.

They could have made this show great, but now this is pretty much a softcore porn with no consistent plot and next to nothing on coherence. The show just doesn't make sense anymore.
HESTIAAPPROVES
 
Mar 8, 2015 6:27 PM

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HE FINALLY HIT THAT SHIT YEAH

s/o to the frying pan for saving best maid
 
Mar 8, 2015 6:56 PM
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For me this is the first time that a anime acted adult. The last one to do that for me was roboteck back in the 80. By the by what is up with all of the sex now? Did something happened to change story's?
 
Mar 8, 2015 7:35 PM
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JhysenTheAsian said:
HE FINALLY HIT THAT SHIT YEAH

s/o to the frying pan for saving best maid


She used her trusty Frying Pan as a Not-Dying Pan.
 
Mar 8, 2015 7:41 PM

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that when Momoka got shot, there was no blood. And it was constantly pointed out that the explosion came after she fell and from a different location. Nothing surprising there.

Tusk surviving, regardless of what they showed, is not surprising.

Ersha not getting her precious children revived was expected. Defection slightly less so.


But my favorite part in this episode was the next episode "preview," where they poked fun at how they had Tusk and Momoka miraculously survive. At least the asspull was intentional.
 
Mar 8, 2015 7:49 PM

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hpulley said:
The more I think about it, I think Ange is like Embryo, she just doesn't know it. She can manipulate reality, bring people back to life. I think she is a bit like Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu in this way, she has this power but isn't aware of it. She thought, "I can't live without Tusk and Momoka" ...almost killed herself, remembered what Tusk said so decided not to and behold, they're alive! I think she subconsciously brought them back to life. Angelise Ikaruga Misurugi no Yuuutsu.


This is a good theory.
I think Ange wanted them to be alive so much, she made it happen. I've been sort of ignoring all the bullshit stuff that Vylkiss can do that no other mech can do, but if all that was to lead up to showing that Ange is also a tuner, I wont be surprised.

Zahylon said:
TL;DR Bulletproof vests actually stop bullets.

Best Episode.
-Embryo is a Sith Lord...I mean, He almost kills Ersha with the FORCE.
-Tusk is Kira Yamato, and their relationship is just wonderful. Now Tusk unveils this Red Mech (It's the Infinite Justice)
-Ersha makes up her mind

All I can say is: I truly love this show, Worth watching it each week for this six months, it had all the stuff that I like seeing in an anime.

The only sad thing...it's that it will end in a few weeks.


Lol, I completely agree. All the character interactions are nice to watch, and the facial expressions are great too. Definitely the first show I watch every week.

L-Ryoshi said:
EverydaySoCloudy said:
...
So in defense of Ange's action of having sex with Tusk upon seeing him isn't too surprising or bad in the least.


I think it's not so much the sex scene that people are angry with, but with the practically non-existent plot and overly-generous helpings of plot armor being thrown in and around everywhere.

...They started the show off so seriously, but once Tusk's character was introduced, this shows tag as a story/plot-driven show was pretty ...
...deus ex machina...
They could have made this show great, but now this is pretty much a softcore porn with no consistent plot and next to nothing on coherence. The show just doesn't make sense anymore.


The show started off seriously, I wont deny that. But episodes 2-5(the episodes not involving tusk) were the most painful to watch. Not because, ange was still angelise, but because the character dynamics were strained, the plot wasn't moving besides character introductions, and there was no forseeable change in the dynamic of the show.

Then boom, ange get's knocked off onto an island. They introduce a non-mana using male, show dragon's being taken and Ange softens up to the point of conversing with other Mail Riders (THAT'S FREGIN HUGE!) I agree, that the Tusk crotch scenes were groan inducing, but this show only got better when he was introduced.

Deus ex machina... is that another word for Vylkiss? Jokes aside, Vylkiss can teleport to other worlds without the need of a gate, can turn gold and fucking heal. This show has been doing ASSPULL'S FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. They haven't explained so many elements... Like

Why did the dragon lady betray the dragon's in the first place? (Embryo didn't abduct her from dragonland)
How come Chris is as strong as 4 mail riders combined, and was so easily defeated when she was at Arzenal?
How did Tusk catch up to Ange, when Embryo killed himself to teleport to Ange? (That didn't bother you because it resulted in his death though)

The reason why Ange, and Tusk having sex bothers you so much is because it's not your ship. You're just looking for ways to rationalize that it doesn't make sense when in this show, they've basically thrown rationale out of the window from basically the beginning.

bittersweetlove said:
Rebelhero said:



I agree! Hilda deserves some damn happiness!


I do agree, but that end it's not the happiness that she deserve! She deserve someone better than Ange and the hell with Tusk...

Asria_Y said:
... "Oh he's alive... and I'm pretty depressed right now so let's fuck. That way I can get to have a positive look on the world who I saw as completely shitty seconds ago"... Am I the only one who saw it like this?
...


I agree with almost everything you said Asria_Y, specially about the sex part, that's why I think it was so stupid, I mean, Murano and Shinichi (Kiseijuu) sex scene was lovely! It was sweet, you could see their feelings in it, now Ange was just stupid: "Oh if I knew he would die I could have left him do all the way" WTF! Stupid, this was like many people said here the worst episode, and like you I agree that Ersha was the only good thing in the whole episode.


I don't see how "Oh if I knew he would die I could have left him do all the way" is stupid... at all (especially if she loves him and never explicitly stated it). It makes a lot of sense. Like... a lot. That's like the plot of most romance in movies with military elements (he goes to war and surprisingly comes back after an empty time of no letters or something). Didn't black lagoon do something like that as well?

Also, Arisa_Y you forgot the whole.... Are you real bit. I think there was sufficient buildup to the sexual encounter.
1.Ange crying saying she misses him and regrets not going all the way because she loves him.
2.They meet and Ange questions whether he's really there or not.
3.She missed him, they reunite... she regrets not having sex (means she wanted to.) So they have sex.

About the whole soothing thing. They cut out at the sex part and Ange's much calmer afterwards, so that probably happened too. Ange's an aggressive heroine so she took the lead in the act. Nothing wrong with that.

Kirigaro92 said:
... Yuri shippers's shitstorm is coming.

I didn't expect this to be right.
Modified by TitanAnteus, Mar 8, 2015 8:01 PM
 
Mar 8, 2015 7:53 PM

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ErwinJA said:
I'm sure I'm not the only one who noticed that when Momoka got shot, there was no blood.

Give this guy a medal "claps"
Momoka's survival was foreshadowed, GG.

Tusk?
He had bullet and fire proof FUTURE clothing, it could probably tank a nuke.
And miracles do exist.

Ange had SEX with Tusk because SHE LOVES HIM! :O
It's also a nice take back to that ep where they almost did it :'(
Beautiful how it all comes together :'(
 
Mar 8, 2015 7:59 PM
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You know what's really ironic? Ange met Tusk thanks to Hilda's bullying, she arranged her own suffering
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:02 PM

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How people enjoy this I don't know. There is literally nothing to praise.

Show continues to shit on itself. Who the hell cares if they finally connected. This plot and characters are laughably bad. Momo dying last week as a bummer bc I only watch for Momo and Vivian. But they bring back Momo AND Tusk with a "don't ask don't tell" approach. So Momo didn't get shot in the chest but she hurdled down into an explosion. Whatevs...shouldn't look into it. She's too cute to care anyway. It's almost over and I can give it the rating it deserves, crap.

ichii_1 said:
Absolutely AMAZINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why does this only have 25 ep. while other sh!t gets hundreds of ep?! F*CK!!!

And the haters are funny LOL
"they came back to life, DERDERPDERP"
They were never dead in the first place you idiots.
Everyone is in tip top shape and regular humans have suvived worse.
What don't you get?! this is why there should be a IQ level to watch anime.
Cause people are too stupid to comprehend anything.

The emotion from Ange was PHENOMENAL!!!
Truly real and heartfelt :'(
I cried the whole ep. so good :'(


You just made my night...you effing idiot. Ahhh : '( please keep up the stupidity so I can come across it from time to time and get a laugh.
Modified by IZEROII, Mar 8, 2015 8:06 PM
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:09 PM

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He had bullet and fire proof FUTURE clothing, it could probably tank a nuke.
'(


Yes because fire is what really kills people in explosions amrite?

TitanAnteus said:


Kirigaro92 said:
... Yuri shippers's shitstorm is coming.

I didn't expect this to be right.

yep anyone who had a problem with the hi we back is a yuri shipper lol the defense is cute you guys are cute I'm done lol[/quote]
Modified by VPedge, Mar 8, 2015 8:23 PM
"Yo, Buddy. Still alive?" -Solo Wing Pixy, AC:Zero (best game ever)
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:10 PM

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IZEROII said:
How people enjoy this I don't know. There is literally nothing to praise.

Show continues to shit on itself. Who the hell cares if they finally connected. This plot and characters are laughably bad. Momo dying last week as a bummer bc I only watch for Momo and Vivian. But they bring back Momo AND Tusk with a "don't ask don't tell" approach. So Momo didn't get shot in the chest but she hurdled down into an explosion. Whatevs...shouldn't look into it. She's too cute to care anyway. It's almost over and I can give it the rating it deserves, crap.

What don't you like about the plot?
There's 3 factions. Dragons, Non-mana humans, and embryo.

They all have their goals, and try to obtain it in the best way they can. Ange gets acquainted with all 3 in a very sensible manner. It doesn't feel like she's being forced to see every side to the story but she eventually does. All the characters have goals and unique aspects about their pasts that influence their judgement. A lot of shows don't go into showing why and how characters come to make their judgements. While most people don't like Salia right now, everyone understands how and why she's making her decisions.

Even some of my alltime favorite shows don't do that.

Wait... you're watching this show because of Momoka and Viviane... really? Viviane does nothing... she's the loli character... that's it. (is that why?)
Momoka is a pretty one-dimensional character. While she show's a lot of emotion her character's so defined she's predictable.

You... really need to reanalyze what makes a show good. Plus you're still watching it at episode 22. You wouldn't do that unless you liked it.
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:17 PM

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I'm laughing my ass off at how many people are surprised at Tusk & Momoka being alive, AND making a hard case of it too, considering that many of you were claiming it might happen last week. I didn't even watch the Seed series yet(much to my shame, but I'll get to it this spring/summer...) and expected this from Fukuda, or from Cross Ange as a whole.

Admittedly I was kind of hoping for a half-assed 10 second explanation or something(although I in typical Cross Ange fashion I got just that in the preview, along with more of that self-awareness that I'm so fond of :P).

However, I found the episode quite stellar, mostly on an emotional level, on par with episode 9, or heck, better. The way it presented that reminder of everything's Ange's been through and how that influenced her decision to 1st attempt to suicide because she two closest people to her were no longer, then stop because as she most likely considered that suicide would make their sacrifices pointless, as well as simply not wanting to die(like she didn't the 1st time when she was in her self-denial state, eps 1-3) was nothing short of awesome, IMHO. Of course, this depends on whether you've been interested in Ange's character development, which you kind of should since it's um, you know, the show's strongest & most important aspect.

Then the complaints about the sex...like, seriously? One would think people got used to it by now. It's something you'd expect from the show AND from our main character.

"Oh noes, hardened, rather violent & horny female MC wants to have sex here & there and she INITIATES it too! How dare you have Ange stay in-character Fukuda?" Just lol.

Good for Ange I say. A little(or more) sexy time during downtime before chopping off the serpent's head is most-welcome. More to come afterwards you two ^_^ Maybe invite Hilda too...

Also, I'm glad that Sunrise seems to have decided to put a little more budged in these final episodes(at the very least t was certainly noticeable this ep). It gives me hope that they intend to end on a strong note.
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:17 PM

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Show has gone full retard... 10/10. Waiting for 2nd OST to release.
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:27 PM

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MgMaster said:
I'm laughing my ass off at how many people are surprised at Tusk & Momoka being alive, AND making a hard case of it too, considering that many of you were claiming it might happen last week. I didn't even watch the Seed series yet(much to my shame, but I'll get to it this spring/summer...) and expected this from Fukuda, or from Cross Ange as a whole.

Admittedly I was kind of hoping for a half-assed 10 second explanation or something(although I in typical Cross Ange fashion I got just that in the preview, along with more of that self-awareness that I'm so fond of :P).

However, I found the episode quite stellar, mostly on an emotional level, on par with episode 9, or heck, better. The way it presented that reminder of everything's Ange's been through and how that influenced her decision to 1st attempt to suicide because she two closest people to her were no longer, then stop because as she most likely considered that suicide would make their sacrifices pointless, as well as simply not wanting to die(like she didn't the 1st time when she was in her self-denial state, eps 1-3) was nothing short of awesome, IMHO. Of course, this depends on whether you've been interested in Ange's character development, which you kind of should since it's um, you know, the show's strongest & most important aspect.

Then the complaints about the sex...like, seriously? One would think people got used to it by now. It's something you'd expect from the show AND from our main character.

"Oh noes, hardened, rather violent & horny female MC wants to have sex here & there and she INITIATES it too! How dare you have Ange stay in-character Fukuda?" Just lol.

Good for Ange I say. A little(or more) sexy time during downtime before chopping off the serpent's head is most-welcome. More to come afterwards you two ^_^ Maybe invite Hilda too...

Also, I'm glad that Sunrise seems to have decided to put a little more budged in these final episodes(at the very least t was certainly noticeable this ep). It gives me hope that they intend to end on a strong note.


Lol you know what you are honestly kinda right here I really shouldn't be upset I mean its fukuda and I did watch gundam SEED/Destiny lol but I guess I should go with the flow since he honestly doesn't want to improve in his own hamfisted writing. Also you are more or less going to be alright with SEED to atleast the second half or so
"Yo, Buddy. Still alive?" -Solo Wing Pixy, AC:Zero (best game ever)
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:28 PM
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[quote=VPedge]
ichii_1 said:
ErwinJA said:



He had bullet and fire proof FUTURE clothing, it could probably tank a nuke.
'(


Yes because fire is what really kills people in explosions amrite?

TitanAnteus said:



I didn't expect this to be right.

yep anyone who had a problem with the hi we back is a yuri shipper lol the defense is cute you guys are cute I'm done lol


I never said that dude, hold your horses. I was talking about the Tuskhaters and Hildafags complaining every episode about Tusk and wanting him dead every time they commented. I also think the comeback was a huge asspull but meh, I wasn't expecting a masterpiece when I started watching this so I just sit, watch it and enjoy it with my brain turn off. Why bother getting so pissed?
 
Mar 8, 2015 8:40 PM

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Kirigaro92 said:


I never said that dude, hold your horses. I was talking about the Tuskhaters and Hildafags complaining every episode about Tusk and wanting him dead every time they commented. I also think the comeback was a huge asspull but meh, I wasn't expecting a masterpiece when I started watching this so I just sit, watch it and enjoy it with my brain turn off. Why bother getting so pissed?


Well like i said I am just going to just finish watching this and see what happens in terms of SEED/Destiny this show is abit above it but I still wounder why fukuda hasn't even once tried to improve but yeah sorry I just don't like the whole lolhater defense because its a weak one at best sometimes.

Don't worry all good vibes
"Yo, Buddy. Still alive?" -Solo Wing Pixy, AC:Zero (best game ever)
 
Mar 8, 2015 9:54 PM

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Bow chicka bow wow. Tusk gettin' it IN with Ange. Finally. He da man.

And I liked the bit of sobbing and feeling down. They didn't drag it on too long. This was definitely a lighter transition episode for the final conclusion. My body is ready.
 
Mar 8, 2015 9:55 PM

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Kirigaro92 said:
You know what's really ironic? Ange met Tusk thanks to Hilda's bullying, she arranged her own suffering

Oh man, this is the first time I'll make a post on this forum. Damn you got it 100% right, oh Hilda I pity you now. But thanks to you my ship met.

Truly you are 2nd best girl :33

As for the episode. I agree that it was an obvious asspull, but they admit it in the preview and it was intentional. How can I be mad at such boldness. This show never took itself so seriously, neither did I.

I freaking love it though. Seriously, this is my favorite show of this and last season. Only second to that based Parasyte.

Such wonderful anime, look forward to next week :-)

I also think Ange is one of the best heroines I've ever seen. Her development has been fantastic, just really awesome and emotionally investing.

Can't wait for Ange Cafe and their four children. This show better end up with that, or I'll be seriously mad/sad.
Modified by VegettoBanchi, Mar 8, 2015 10:05 PM
 
Mar 8, 2015 10:39 PM

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TitanAnteus said:
TL:dr
snip snip snip. Read the original post if you want.

The show started off seriously, I wont deny that. But episodes 2-5(the episodes not involving tusk) were the most painful to watch. Not because, ange was still angelise, but because the character dynamics were strained, the plot wasn't moving besides character introductions, and there was no forseeable change in the dynamic of the show.

Then boom, ange get's knocked off onto an island. They introduce a non-mana using male, show dragon's being taken and Ange softens up to the point of conversing with other Mail Riders (THAT'S FREGIN HUGE!) I agree, that the Tusk crotch scenes were groan inducing, but this show only got better when he was introduced.

Deus ex machina... is that another word for Vylkiss? Jokes aside, Vylkiss can teleport to other worlds without the need of a gate, can turn gold and fucking heal. This show has been doing ASSPULL'S FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. They haven't explained so many elements... Like

Why did the dragon lady betray the dragon's in the first place? (Embryo didn't abduct her from dragonland)
How come Chris is as strong as 4 mail riders combined, and was so easily defeated when she was at Arzenal?
How did Tusk catch up to Ange, when Embryo killed himself to teleport to Ange? (That didn't bother you because it resulted in his death though)

The reason why Ange, and Tusk having sex bothers you so much is because it's not your ship. You're just looking for ways to rationalize that it doesn't make sense when in this show, they've basically thrown rationale out of the window from basically the beginning.


The reason why I continued watching from the off was because of how serious the show was. I was watching the show for the process of Ange changing from a stereotypical snob princess to a hardened young woman who doesn't take shit from no one. The first few episodes set the tone and was friggin epic in setting that plot.

The introduction of Tusk did nothing to help this, all it did was make Ange into a meeker, weaker character. The fact that she regressed to the point that having this guy die leads her to contemplate suicide just goes to show how far this show has fallen. Ange didn't need Tusk, she never did. She was stronger and more independent for it. Tusk was a liability to the story, as proven in this very episode. THAT is why I didn't like him. Had he been a respectable, reliable manly guy like Guts of Berserk, Yuuji of Grisaia, or even Yomo of Tokyo Ghoul, I wouldn't have any cause to complain, because that sort of character would compliment Ange as a tough character. Tusk can best be described as Yuuki Rito of To-Love-Ru. He has no place in this war-torn universe.

Tusk is basically the directors wish fulfillment of a male with beta characteristics getting together with the Alpha Female, simply because the Alpha Female regressed so much to let him in (pun intended). It's not about the Yuri, its about regression from the plot, PLUS the impossible asspulls to achieve it.

As for your questions:

1. Why did the dragon lady betray the dragon's in the first place? (Embryo didn't abduct her from dragonland)
- The Dragon Lady was trying to kill off Ange's royal family, ie. mana users. She was never betraying her kin then. She betrayed them after Embryo captured and tortured her for information, I'm pretty sure you've seen how effective that torture is the past few episodes.

2. How come Chris is as strong as 4 mail riders combined, and was so easily defeated when she was at Arzenal?
- By the same count, how did Salia and Ersha get an upgrade? Obviously by acquiring better Ragna-Mail AND Embryo's powers in reviving her. Remember, her fellow mail riders aren't exactly shooting to kill her here, but she IS. That makes a huge difference. Edit: Oh right, she was fighting one trained pilot and three new Trainees. Wow, such a hard battle.


3. How did Tusk catch up to Ange, when Embryo killed himself to teleport to Ange? (That didn't bother you because it resulted in his death though)
- Never commented on the farce of a last episode, but yes that was a total asspull as well, in fact the last few episodes have been one asspull after another. I think I've said enough of that in my previous episode comments.


Tusk is a character that has been shown to be good with machines, but has no other special skills apart from that. Coming back from an explosion that basically heals you of all wounds is asspull, arriving so quickly to a deserted island is an asspull, the fact that he's alive in itself is a major asspull. There's no two ways about it.

So yeah, I watched this to see Ange toughen up and kick ass, this episode and the past few asspulls have been nothing like the nitty-gritty serious tone as the first 12 or so episodes (Tusk episode in between non-withstanding, that episode was ridiculous). Ange's character has taken a turn for the worse, because of Tusk.
Modified by L-Ryoshi, Mar 8, 2015 10:44 PM
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Mar 8, 2015 11:03 PM

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VegettoBanchi said:
Kirigaro92 said:
You know what's really ironic? Ange met Tusk thanks to Hilda's bullying, she arranged her own suffering

Oh man, this is the first time I'll make a post on this forum. Damn you got it 100% right, oh Hilda I pity you now. But thanks to you my ship met.

Truly you are 2nd best girl :33

As for the episode. I agree that it was an obvious asspull, but they admit it in the preview and it was intentional. How can I be mad at such boldness. This show never took itself so seriously, neither did I.

I freaking love it though. Seriously, this is my favorite show of this and last season. Only second to that based Parasyte.

Such wonderful anime, look forward to next week :-)

I also think Ange is one of the best heroines I've ever seen. Her development has been fantastic, just really awesome and emotionally investing.

Can't wait for Ange Cafe and their four children. This show better end up with that, or I'll be seriously mad/sad.


A glorious, highly entertaining mess and a genuinely good anime is what I'd call it. Asspulls like Tusk & Momoka being alive are part of the former(the self-awareness is also great) whereas Ange's development as well as several of the side characters' is when the show takes itself more seriously. For those of us who can enjoy both, the show's quite a treat!
 
Mar 8, 2015 11:37 PM

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Every one who drope this just for this episode is meh...

I know it's very asspulss and i doN't like this episode but i actually like the characters (especially Hilda and Embryo) and the main story. Not everything is perfect...

Hate this so much. We have so many overated shit anime that hase million problem and no body care. But an anime like this have 1 problem and than it "suck"...
 
Mar 8, 2015 11:54 PM
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iDont get why drop it now, the show doesn't even take itself serious so why are yall, dumbasses, smh I'm loving this anime, plus iHope tbe redhead chick get Ange once, Yuri for the win
 
Mar 9, 2015 12:16 AM

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L-Ryoshi said:

The reason why I continued watching from the off was because of how serious the show was. I was watching the show for the process of Ange changing from a stereotypical snob princess to a hardened young woman who doesn't take shit from no one.

I mean... it's not like Ange's base character is different now. She fell into depression on her own, not because someone put her there.

L-Ryoshi said:

The introduction of Tusk did nothing to help this, all it did was make Ange into a meeker, weaker character. The fact that she regressed to the point that having this guy die leads her to contemplate suicide just goes to show how far this show has fallen.

Wait really? The Ange who's a badass ragnamail pilot, the Ange who takes a stand against authority and the Ange that is in love with tusk are all Ange. Those are all a part of her. Ange isn't meek when she's with Tusk, she's just... normal. Tusk dying wasn't the first time she thought of just completely giving up. She said it in the episode. When I came back, home is where Momoka was. Home is where Tusk was, and now they're both gone.

It sounds to me like you wanted Ange to be asexual throughout the show, or take her relationships completely lightly. So that she can be badass Ange all the time.

L-Ryoshi said:
Ange didn't need Tusk, she never did. She was stronger and more independent for it. Tusk was a liability to the story, as proven in this very episode. THAT is why I didn't like him. Had he been a respectable, reliable manly guy like Guts of Berserk, Yuuji of Grisaia, or even Yomo of Tokyo Ghoul, I wouldn't have any cause to complain, because that sort of character would compliment Ange as a tough character. Tusk can best be described as Yuuki Rito of To-Love-Ru. He has no place in this war-torn universe.

He saved her. TWICE! If he wasn't in the land of dragons with her... she might've died as well. She doesn't need him to live technically which is the theme of this episode.

"People aren't meant to live alone."

Guts and Yuji are lead protagonist. Tusk is a supporting protagonist. He never took the spotlight, and he's quite literally Ange's emotional support when she needs him. If you reversed the gender it'd probably make more sense in your head.

L-Ryoshi said:

Tusk is basically the directors wish fulfillment of a male with beta characteristics getting together with the Alpha Female, simply because the Alpha Female regressed so much to let him in (pun intended). It's not about the Yuri, its about regression from the plot, PLUS the impossible asspulls to achieve it.

I thought we got over the asspulls thing as just an everyday thing with Cross Ange.
Beta characteristics eh. I can sort of see that, but he says lines that no other male protagonist says. Like... "I love you." "We'll have 4 children and make a cafe." "You're the only one for me." Also, he's pretty baller in his actions. Invading Misurugi on his own, and keeping calm in the land of the dragons when Ange's freaking out.

A beta protagonist is one that does nothing and swarms of girls come to him for no reason. Tusk worked hard.

So what if he doesn't actively pursue the relationships. More important things are happening.

btw, Ange hasn't "regressed" as a character. She's not saving the world because of Tusk. It's her own decision. She can't suddenly not pilot giant robots without tusk. Next episode she'll probably be in an amazing fight, and make world-altering decisions without him. I don't even see how you can say she regressed as a character. She didn't go back to being the weak girl in episode 1.
L-Ryoshi said:

...
So yeah, I watched this to see Ange toughen up and kick ass, this episode and the past few asspulls have been nothing like the nitty-gritty serious tone as the first 12 or so episodes (Tusk episode in between non-withstanding, that episode was ridiculous). Ange's character has taken a turn for the worse, because of Tusk.
...

You got me on those answers. A lot of it's so obvious I'm kicking myself for not seeing it. This show might deserve 2 watchthroughs.

She's still tough and she still kicks ass. What would you have her do instead? Not be emotionally traumatized that the ONLY 2 people she was close with are now dead? Even if it wasn't Tusk but was only Momoka, her behavior this episode would make sense. Her parent's are dead and there's no one in Misurugi she can consider a friend.

Also, Ange would have behaved in a softer way with ANY romantic interest. Male or Female because it's romance... Doesn't change her outlying character.
 
Mar 9, 2015 1:17 AM

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TitanAnteus said:


Go back and read what you wrote. You still haven't explained why having Tusk there does anything for the plot, that Momoka couldn't do as her support.

She was the one doing all the saving and battling in the Other-Earth. Her and Vivian would have done perfectly fine exploring without the whole Love Hotel scene. If anything, Ange was carrying Tusk over there, not the other way around.

Also, yes she isn't saving the world because of Tusk, but when the loss of Tusk induces her to throw away all pretense of reasoning and point a gun to her chin, that IS regression. Regression from a hard-lined individual who's taken too much shit in the first few episodes and hardened into a bad-ass individual, who suddenly needs the support from some whiny ass beta who manages to save her by falling onto an execution platform and ending up with his head in her crotch anyways. Someone who simply didn't give a two shits about comrades dying left and right whilst being fabulously respectably kick-ass fighting Dragons on her own, to someone who simply cannot live with the thought of no Tusk or Momoka in her life. Pfft... sure.

In fact, take out Tusk from this show, keep everything else as is, and the whole story would flow even better than this asspull we have right now of him suddenly coming back from the dead and getting lucky on the beach.

That is my point. He is an unnecessary and unneeded character to drive the plot. Ange's conflicts with the other girls and with Embryo served way better to develop her as a bad-ass character. He just renders her defenseless and useless. If you wanted her to develop a softer tone, Momoka could have already done the job as the devoted Maid/sister figure (even though I'd still probably be complaining about the frying pan as well, but hey still more believable than sky-diving ancient ninjitsu with flame-proof vest and a bomb strapped to your chest).
Modified by L-Ryoshi, Mar 9, 2015 1:23 AM
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Mar 9, 2015 3:56 AM

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I don't usually comment here on episodes watched, but I felt the necessity to do it this time.

Hilarious episode.

I'm honestly having a blast with Ange; not in the best of ways, but I'm definitely having fun with how ridiculous this series is and wondering what they'll pull from their ass next.

I mean, they don't even try to hide it by this point. 5 seconds into the episode, you already have that scene with Embryo and Salia (oh god, this character), and then thing just keeps escalating with the pink haired girl, and, of course, Tusk suddenly being alive again and ready for a good night of sex, Momoka and the freaking frying pan, to finally get to the bra as a white flag. I mean, it's stupid, doesn't make any sense... but it's hilarious.

I don't even know what to expect from the few episodes left, and that's just the way I want it.

Oh, and maybe it makes it even more stupid, but the OST is actually excellent.

People need societies, but they don't necessarily need nations. - Yang Wen-li
 
Mar 9, 2015 4:22 AM
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L-Ryoshi said:
.....


I pretty much agree with most of your assessment.

Tusk did not make Ange a stronger character in which fits her original character design profile. The developers have tripped themselves in the writing for her, one prime example was Ange jumped and hug Tusk in the destroyed base when Momoka in the diving suit show up. Ange's character whom went up used to fight dragons should not be scare of ghost looking creatures, she should have seen worst, hence her character reaction is pure writers tip to weaken her. If i am writing the plot, she should have hop towards Momoka with knife or gun ready in hand aimed. Tusk is never the Alpha male type Ange can instinctively depend on, Tusk should be her counter point to provide cooler head advice and analysis that compensate her weakness, therefore make her attraction to him more grounded and solid.

What is a better written plot between these two characters should be Tusk given better battle plan advise to Ange but Ange dont listen and she made a big mess ended up captured and need to be rescued, and in the process people close to her died. If that happened, Ange no matter how strong, would have to face her guilt and sin and ponder whether she is worthy of being alive (survivor's guilt). This is the sort of outcome that will lift the character's development progression to a new level, simple cause and effect payoff plot type.

Though out this show, there were small well done payoff plot devices and those were mainly in the first fifteen or so episodes: On establishing Ange's capacity to pilot machines and being sporty and active, we saw her driving those hover bikes playing a sport. That became an acceptable payoff when she become good at the pilot seat.

The biggest payoff Tusk's interaction effectively planted after he retreated her from the brother and no other character can replace him for was the kiss in love hotel that became useful in snapping Ange out of brain control. Tusk was more often a comic relief than a useful and developed character.

The two did not complement each other in personality, in fact, the Mary Sue Lacus and Jesus Kira of Seed series has better chemistry at times than Ange and Tusk beyond the need for the plot to have a male lead. Any good writer would suggest Ange likes Tusk because he is the only guy that is in among the Norma type than he has meaningful positive character and personality beyond harem show/game male lead.

Less and less developed characters in recent shows (of ALL forms from Anime to movie to novels) is a trend planted by us audiences that managed to accept worst and worst / thinner and thinner character development and take things at surface value of looks first. [Just the politicians if we put off with jerks, we will get more jerks.]

I always believe a science fiction show should check itself with the world setting logic framework developed (likes of Attack of Titan, Claymore and Berserker were good examples). Audience is willing to accept once or twice the outrage illogical outcome scattered across a long show, but when these events came in doubles or more, they will felt a sense of being cheated. What we got in ep 22 is exactly that: Two characters cheated death and cheated on the world logic on their ability to get from point A to B in no time...

Still there are 3 more episodes to go, Fukuda has one hour to pull some rabbit out of the hat to make this show a cult hit, but I am not putting my money on he can!

Hilda and Ersha was the two best developed character apart from Ange, primary Hilda because we get to see a good personal back story develop for her that help reveal the issue of the world and how she has to grow up, shatter her dream. It makes her character well developed. Ersha is a simple easy to get character, primary because almost every one can relate to motherly figures with a big heart.

Modified by jackaus, Mar 9, 2015 4:34 AM
 
Mar 9, 2015 4:24 AM

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YES. YES. IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS TIME: Love making associated by Ange :D

Anyways, even though yeah Tusk and Momoka is alive (thanks to its convenient plot), that was fun. And Ersha, speaking of her. She's far intelligent than you think, Embryo, haha.

I still can't believe that Cross Ange is worth waiting for my week. Nice.
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Mar 9, 2015 4:28 AM

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L-Ryoshi said:

The introduction of Tusk did nothing to help this, all it did was make Ange into a meeker, weaker character. The fact that she regressed to the point that having this guy die leads her to contemplate suicide just goes to show how far this show has fallen. Ange didn't need Tusk, she never did. She was stronger and more independent for it. Tusk was a liability to the story, as proven in this very episode. THAT is why I didn't like him. Had he been a respectable, reliable manly guy like Guts of Berserk, Yuuji of Grisaia, or even Yomo of Tokyo Ghoul, I wouldn't have any cause to complain, because that sort of character would compliment Ange as a tough character. Tusk can best be described as Yuuki Rito of To-Love-Ru. He has no place in this war-torn universe.

Tusk is basically the directors wish fulfillment of a male with beta characteristics getting together with the Alpha Female, simply because the Alpha Female regressed so much to let him in (pun intended). It's not about the Yuri, its about regression from the plot, PLUS the impossible asspulls to achieve it.


You are so right, I could never like Tusk, and it was stupid that she could ever think about killing herself, I mean, she barely knew him! Like you said, characters like Guts from Berserk and others are other thing, I like to see how Guts stay by Casca's side and try his best for her. Tusk is just a stupid MC! Ange is the strong one, she does not need him at all!
I like yuri, but I love many straight couples as well, Ange and Tusk for me did not feel right, he is just one of those stupid harem MC.
 
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