How did you feel about the use of Narration in the chimera ant arc?
| So I just wanted to continue a discussion from another thread but thought it'd be better to just create a thread since we can discuss without fear of spoilers in the subforum. How do you feel about the narration? Do you believe it's a bad/good story telling device or was just badly used in this case? Did it affect your viewing experience? Would you like the arc less/more if it wasn't present? To those who dislike it, don't sugarcoat your statements(but don't bait either), to the fans of it, explain why as if your lives depended on it (but don't resort to ad hominems), to everyone, be civil. Relevant Now discuss. tsudecimo said: Agafin said: But yeah the "it explains what I already know" mentality couldn't be further from the truth and actually shows that narration (or said explanation) is required. http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/44/26-271.0/compressed/12.jpg?v=11204346652 http://z.mhcdn.net/store/manga/44/26-271.0/compressed/11.jpg?v=11204346652 http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/08/10/h/read4e42662575f8d/18.jpg http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/08/10/h/read4e4265fd3c89e/05.jpg Image + inner monologue + narration is more than overkill. Only the first two are needed. Not really, the narration adds an additional layer of depth to the scenes. Rather than just interpreting the scene from the visual data and inner monologues provided, you now have in addition to those, an ambiguous description from the author through the omnisciesnt narrator. All that just makes the scenes more intense/dramatic to me thanks to the choice of words and timing. And what I meant by what you quoted is that the narration's purpose when it came to stating things we already knew wasn't to spoonfeed the viewers BUT when they feel that way then it can only be that to them. If the narrator really didn't leave anything out for interpretation then there wouldn't have been the thousands of diverging interpretations on the questions raised by the arc by the HxH fans. Basically,being spoonfed by the narration is a choice made by the viewers rather than the narrator. This is my opinion. |
| It sucked ,it was ham-fisted,unnecessarily obstructive and almost made me want to drop the series entirely.That's all there is to it. |
| There were a few scenes that it fit the whole situation. However, most of the times it was unnecessary and ruined the mood. Some intense parts could have a far better atmosphere without the narration, which could be substituted by inner monologues (like the part where Gon was thinking about Kite). So the parts where the narrator was making simple statements with no intensity like ''Ikalgo was confused'' for example, were disturbing to me. |
| Will agree with the popular opinion that it's unnecessary and killed the pacing. CA Arc is already goddamn long, why did they have to make it even longer? |
[right] "The big secret to breaking the rules is to make it look as though you're following them." |
hakuyu said: Will agree with the popular opinion that it's unnecessary and killed the pacing. CA Arc is already goddamn long, why did they have to make it even longer? Judging from the poll, it's not really a popular opinion... |
| Hated it enough to consider dropping the show and I don't like dropping shows. |
Feaor said: Hated it enough to consider dropping the show and I don't like dropping shows. Oh, you're just at episode 114? Then I'd say the best is still to come. |
| I watched CA as a anime only viewer, so I avoided as much as I could the forums, consequently I was rather surprised after the arc was finished that there was a reasonable amount of controversy surrounding the narration. Not even once it crossed my mind that it took away from the enjoyment of the series, if anything it felt satisfying that for the most part everything was explained in such a rich amount of details, different strokes for different folks, I guess. |
R- said: I watched CA as a anime only viewer, so I avoided as much as I could the forums, consequently I was rather surprised after the arc was finished that there was a reasonable amount of controversy surrounding the narration. Not even once it crossed my mind that it took away from the enjoyment of the series, if anything it felt satisfying that for the most part everything was explained in such a rich amount of details, different strokes for different folks, I guess. Well that pretty much settles it. Thing is, people think of the narration as an obvious "villain explaining powers" in the same vein as the shonen shows' trope of doing so (DBZ mainly, also the big 3) |
| End Zionazism |
Agafin said: Yes but I have almost no interest in continuing, I've stalled for 3+ months now because each episode around there felt like an eternity and I almost snap dropped the show in episode 111 when I thought Netero and Zeno were going to fight Pitou and then it just info dumped for like 5-10 minutes, first about Zeno and then about Netero. It was really jarring and felt extremely out of place.Oh, you're just at episode 114? Then I'd say the best is still to come. |
Feaor said: Agafin said: Yes but I have almost no interest in continuing, I've stalled for 3+ months now because each episode around there felt like an eternity and I almost snap dropped the show in episode 111 when I thought Netero and Zeno were going to fight Pitou and then it just info dumped for like 5-10 minutes, first about Zeno and then about Netero. It was really jarring and felt extremely out of place.Oh, you're just at episode 114? Then I'd say the best is still to come. I can see how it can be off putting since the other arcs didn't use narration. Well, it didn't bother me at all. I think the narration reduces around episode 120 or so. Episode 116 is narration-heavy and yet I believe it's one of the best in the entire series so there's that I guess. But episode 115 is not really all that good though... R- said: I watched CA as a anime only viewer, so I avoided as much as I could the forums, consequently I was rather surprised after the arc was finished that there was a reasonable amount of controversy surrounding the narration. Not even once it crossed my mind that it took away from the enjoyment of the series, if anything it felt satisfying that for the most part everything was explained in such a rich amount of details, different strokes for different folks, I guess. I'm almost in the same situation except that I did know that it could create controversy. It's kind of an innovation for battle shonen and they(changes) rarely are ever universally accepted (although it seems like those who dislike it are in the minority in this case). |
| I think everything from both sides, have been already said. For me personally, it was one of the biggest issues I have with the arc, so I would have dislike the arc less if it wasn't present. An old post:- tsudecimo said: Episode 116 is a perfect example of why not having a lot of narration is better. Some of the problems I have with the narration, is that it completely kills subtlety. Having inner monologues and narration at the same time, make the character feel shallow. I liked how episode 116 made me think about Gon, and go back through the series to make sense of his actions. If the narration explained Gon's anger at that episode, I wouldn't have wondered or tried to interpret Gon character deeper. Later on Gon's anger is explained through a lot of little inner monologues speeches, that I liked a lot. Inner monologues give more of personal touch to the characters, compared to the omniscient narrator. @Your reply to the pics Whether it adds a layer of depth or not, doesn't change that what's happening is already obvious and easy to understand, hence why ''it explains what I already know'' is a correct view. |
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| Well, then there's nothing I can really add. And I thought you dislike episode 116 :o |
AgafinFeb 22, 2015 11:15 AM
| First of all the narration was necessary because... I quote here cause this guy says it better. Now as for why I loved the narration. Basically what you point out, we kinda see the author's perspective and it creates another layer of depth to it and makes the scenes more artistic(because of timing and the words used) and dramatic if you will. |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Feaor said: I almost snap dropped the show in episode 111 when I thought Netero and Zeno were going to fight Pitou and then it just info dumped for like 5-10 minutes, first about Zeno and then about Netero. It was really jarring and felt extremely out of place. Haha, this is literally the episode where I first started disliking the arc. My rant at the episode discussion, explaining my disappointment: Agafin said: Well, then there's nothing I can really add. And I thought you dislike episode 116 :o I liked it! |
tsudecimoFeb 22, 2015 11:17 AM
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R- said: I watched CA as a anime only viewer, so I avoided as much as I could the forums, consequently I was rather surprised after the arc was finished that there was a reasonable amount of controversy surrounding the narration. Not even once it crossed my mind that it took away from the enjoyment of the series, if anything it felt satisfying that for the most part everything was explained in such a rich amount of details, different strokes for different folks, I guess. This too. Although I did think ep113 and 115 could be handled better. |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
tsudecimo said: Episode 116 is a perfect example of why not having a lot of narration is better. Some of the problems I have with the narration, is that it completely kills subtlety. Having inner monologues and narration at the same time, make the character feel shallow. I liked how episode 116 made me think about Gon, and go back through the series to make sense of his actions. If the narration explained Gon's anger at that episode, I wouldn't have wondered or tried to interpret Gon character deeper. Later on Gon's anger is explained through a lot of little inner monologues speeches, that I liked a lot. Inner monologues give more of personal touch to the characters, compared to the omniscient narrator. ^this exactly, that's the episode I was referring to. I believe if all the characters had such inner monologues in this arc, they would be more relatable and the whole arc would be way better. |
danae17 said: tsudecimo said: Episode 116 is a perfect example of why not having a lot of narration is better. Some of the problems I have with the narration, is that it completely kills subtlety. Having inner monologues and narration at the same time, make the character feel shallow. I liked how episode 116 made me think about Gon, and go back through the series to make sense of his actions. If the narration explained Gon's anger at that episode, I wouldn't have wondered or tried to interpret Gon character deeper. Later on Gon's anger is explained through a lot of little inner monologues speeches, that I liked a lot. Inner monologues give more of personal touch to the characters, compared to the omniscient narrator. ^this exactly, that's the episode I was referring to. I believe if all the characters had such inner monologues in this arc, they would be more relatable and the whole arc would be way better. Not at all. Inner monologues are really bad for what the narration was trying to do. It goes against the purpose of what they wanted in the first place. This is why I keep saying people never understood the point of narration. |
| End Zionazism |
| You know what's a real shame? the narrator's voice is actually really great, so +1 for Madhouse. I also like to add, that it's not really a problem in the manga, at least for me, since I can choose by myself what narration is necessary and worth reading so -1 for Madhouse. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ oh well |
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| I'm more indifferent to it. Sure it adds little to nothing, but it wasn't really distracting when the events taking place were pretty standard already. The narration basically came in when what was already done was done. Redundant in some cases, but well done in others. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| I'll give another example of how the narration created more depth solely speaking for myself here. In ep 116 When Gon asks Pitou why she wants to save Komugi. Narrator says "What Pitou chose to say was......" *Pitou talks* ".....the truth". Now of course this is obvious, we just saw it, but in my mind it creates another layer of thought. The word "chose" instantly makes me think what if Pitou chose other words, not to mention the whole "choice" dilemma can get you even deeper into the rabbit hole.But maybe I am just overthinking things. Just wanted to post a small example how I perceived the narration. |
| "Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone". Ella Wheeler Wilcox |
Mikasa said: Not at all. Inner monologues are really bad for what the narration was trying to do. It goes against the purpose of what they wanted in the first place. This is why I keep saying people never understood the point of narration. I understand why it was used, it just didn't work for me, simple as that. I see most people liked it though so yeah maybe it's not my cup of tea. |
danae17 said: Mikasa said: Not at all. Inner monologues are really bad for what the narration was trying to do. It goes against the purpose of what they wanted in the first place. This is why I keep saying people never understood the point of narration. I see most people liked it though so yeah maybe it's not my cup of tea. I wouldn't take that so quickly considering the location and size of the poll and the reality of alt accounts. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| it was necessary because it was in the manga 2. we need to understand why the character took that decision 3. we need to understand how works their abilities 4. we need to understand the personalities 5. we need to understand the context for example: why gon decides to fight against yupi when his target was Pitou - why shoot was smiling - why killua attacks a chimera ant (saving to ikalgo) when he said that each one was reponsible of his own part of the plan... |
| Gintama: "The blade is not to cut down your enemies Nor is it to cut away your own weakness A sword isnt meant to protect your body A sword is meant for protecting your soul" |
Agafin said: hakuyu said: Will agree with the popular opinion that it's unnecessary and killed the pacing. CA Arc is already goddamn long, why did they have to make it even longer? Judging from the poll, it's not really a popular opinion... No, I mean in general. People voting in this thread liked the show probably. And looking at the poll, it definitely is a mixed opinion. |
| [right] "The big secret to breaking the rules is to make it look as though you're following them." |
hakuyu said: Agafin said: Judging from the poll, it's not really a popular opinion... No, I mean in general. People voting in this thread liked the show probably. And looking at the poll, it definitely is a mixed opinion. Not really, being in the HxH subforum doesn't mean that everybody will like everything about it. http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1351888&show=0 (Don't check the comments, they might have spoilers, only check the poll results) Both of these are in the One Piece subforum and yet they still have more negative votes than positive. I think what you are confusing this with is a situation where a show or an aspect of it is being compared to another. For example, asking "what is your favourite shonen" in the HxH subforum or asking "who is the better character between Naruto and Luffy" in the One Piece subforum will obviously get skewed results. However when there's no comparison with another series, results can be anyhow (as evidenced by the links I provided. Well, at the moment I'm writing this, there are more than two times more positive than negative opinions on it so saying that "popular opinion" is wrong either way. soundscape said: I'll give another example of how the narration created more depth solely speaking for myself here. In ep 116 When Gon asks Pitou why she wants to save Komugi. Narrator says "What Pitou chose to say was......" *Pitou talks* ".....the truth". Now of course this is obvious, we just saw it, but in my mind it creates another layer of thought. The word "chose" instantly makes me think what if Pitou chose other words, not to mention the whole "choice" dilemma can get you even deeper into the rabbit hole.But maybe I am just overthinking things. Just wanted to post a small example how I perceived the narration. Yeah, scenes like this as well as pretty much the whole of episodes 126 and 131 had spectacular use of narration imo. Corporal_Atlas said: On one hand, it provided a deeper perspective with rich detail expected of HxH. Despite the omniscience there was still doubt and suspense when the narrator suddenly stopped detailing internal thoughts of characters like Gon once he gets angry. This brings us closer to every character except Gon, in a way now seeing him in a new and fearsome light. On the other hand, it extended things well past reason and at times because what was likely unintentionally hilarious with characters repeating the narrator or doing the incredibly minute action he said right after he said it. I think this amount of narration was more suited to the manga, where dialogue often links panels with fast explanations or characters shouting what they're doing. This transitions awkwardly into anime when it isn't needed, though. Characters saying what they're doing just as they do it in high frequency is a common manga adaptation folly, and the narration could at times be an example of this. Keep in mind I'm not referring to that old schtick where something happens and an onlooker thinks or explains what happened in further detail. tl;dr they should've cut his more superfluous remarks and sped up the pace to make it more impactful. Still a good arc but awkwardly slow for 2011 standards. Hmmm, this is a very interesting viewpoint. Especially the part about the difference in medium. I could see this not working as well in the anime as int did in the manga for some. But I personally think it worked and sometimes even better. |
| 1/5 of the viewers disliked/hated the narration. 1/5 were indifferent to it. 3/5 liked/loved it. Good, good. tsudecimo said: Agafin said: Well, then there's nothing I can really add. And I thought you dislike episode 116 :o I liked it! I'm watching Kaiji currently. It seems like it also has some decent amount of narration (and I like it). How did you find it there? |
Agafin said: I'm watching Kaiji currently. It seems like it also has some decent amount of narration (and I like it). How did you find it there? I freaking loved it. The voice actor was great, and I already know him before watching Kaiji (Mado in Gintama, Youpi, etc). Key difference, is that HxH's narrator is monotone and omniscient, and is used to only add details, while Kaiji's made me pumped up and added passion to scenes, even when some of the narration was not needed, it still felt fun, and exciting. |
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| i don't see the problem is having the narrator say it worse then the characters saying it in their heads? i did have a problem with it the first time i watched episode 111 but after i re-watched it the next day it was by far my favorite episode ive seen up until that point |
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StefanHere said: Sometimes it wasn't even something the characters would say in their heads, it was something that you were seeing.i don't see the problem is having the narrator say it worse then the characters saying it in their heads? i did have a problem with it the first time i watched episode 111 but after i re-watched it the next day it was by far my favorite episode ive seen up until that point |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
| I'm kind of indifferent. While at times I thought it felt appropriate there were others when I felt it was pointless and almost insulting telling me as if I couldn't figure it out by myself. |
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boredxxx said: Completely ruining the atmosphere and intensity. I mean narration is ok when it doesnt take over the episode and done in small ammounts but this is ridiculous. Does it tone down after 115 (currently on that)? I think it tones down. The worst parts were episode 111 and Killua's entrance with Gon, if I remember right. |
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StefanHere said: Haha, same here. And it's one of the reasons why that arc has such a high rewatchability for me.i don't see the problem is having the narrator say it worse then the characters saying it in their heads? i did have a problem with it the first time i watched episode 111 but after i re-watched it the next day it was by far my favorite episode ive seen up until that point boredxxx said: Completely ruining the atmosphere and intensity. I mean narration is ok when it doesnt take over the episode and done in small ammounts but this is ridiculous. Does it tone down after 115 (currently on that)? Not by much. I'd say the whole of the invasion part of the arc is narration-heavy. Episodes 116 and 126 in particular both have copious amounts of narration (probably more than any other) so get ready. |
Agafin said: StefanHere said: Haha, same here. And it's one of the reasons why that arc has such a high rewatchability for me.i don't see the problem is having the narrator say it worse then the characters saying it in their heads? i did have a problem with it the first time i watched episode 111 but after i re-watched it the next day it was by far my favorite episode ive seen up until that point boredxxx said: Completely ruining the atmosphere and intensity. I mean narration is ok when it doesnt take over the episode and done in small ammounts but this is ridiculous. Does it tone down after 115 (currently on that)? Not by much. I'd say the whole of the invasion part of the arc is narration-heavy. Episodes 116 and 126 in particular both have copious amounts of narration (probably more than any other) so get ready. Episode 126 didn't have that much narration imo, it was mostly inner monologues. OT: I'm indifferent, sometimes the narrator would make a scene even more epic (the ending of ep 112) but sometimes it wasn't necessary. But since I didn't watch the show while it was airing & didn't have to wait for a new episode weekly I don't find the pacing that bad. |
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babymimi said: It had the perfect combination of both actually.Episode 126 didn't have that much narration imo, it was mostly inner monologues. OT: I'm indifferent, sometimes the narrator would make a scene even more epic (the ending of ep 112) but sometimes it wasn't necessary. But since I didn't watch the show while it was airing & didn't have to wait for a new episode weekly I don't find the pacing that bad. |
AgafinFeb 27, 2015 11:10 AM
Agafin said: babymimi said: It had the perfect combination of both actually.Episode 126 didn't have that much narration imo, it was mostly inner monologues. OT: I'm indifferent, sometimes the narrator would make a scene even more epic (the ending of ep 112) but sometimes it wasn't necessary. But since I didn't watch the show while it was airing & didn't have to wait for a new episode weekly I don't find the pacing that bad. Et voila. |
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| The narration in the CA arc is objectively awful. It's not about opinion. People who think differently are delusional. Shounen anime would be unwatchable if this was a regular thing. |
| I've hear so many people complain about the narration in Hunter x Hunter, and I never really understood why. It might sound weird to many, but I thought that narrator was goddamn awesome- he had some of the best lines in the series, with this one being my favorite: "The countless dragons that rained down were less significant threats than the humans in the sky." It also did a great job simplifying a story which was anything but when you scrape beyond the surface. I felt like a lot of the actions characters took in the arc were simple- Gon taking revenge on Pitou, Killua trying to "save" his friend Gon, a "hero" taking out the "villain" of the arc, some redemption here and there etc. etc. All of those seem like typical Shounen fare when you just describe the action without real context- which is what the narrator does a lot of the time. But the in-between bits were anything but and- because of how 'human' all the characters are, things become so much more complicated- the things those actions represent aren't simple. For me, the narration did a great job at juxtaposing all of that in a way that a more mature or audience or someone in an introspective mood can look beyond, and that a younger audience, or those who aren't necessarily looking to analyze what they're watching can overlook if they so choose. It was done just right, and with the perfect amount of exposition, I'd say. Especially with the narrator telling us so much but still having the characters and their actions shock the hell out of us! Plus, the narrator's voice gave me that sort of epic adventure vibe- the sort of voice you hear in old fables or sagas and I thought that fit with the overall vibe of HxH, especially so in the Chimera Ant art which affected the series' world and characters so much. I think I'm about done with my mini rant now ^^" Narrator's like Marmite, I guess. |
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| In my opinion, put a narrator in Hunter x Hunter completely destroys the anime! Especially in the Chimera Ant Arc, more precisely the fight between Netero and Meruem... The fight was already rushed and didn't showed us much but put the narrator there completely kill the fight (3/10)... Other thing is, people often say that Hunter x Hunter is well writen anime but I don't think so! - First, the arcs feel stretched!; - Second, the autor doesn't know the difference between an anime (manga) of G - All ages classification and a R+ - Violance classification! It mix both and sometimes doesn't work well (especially in the Quimera Ant Arc) - repair that HxH (2011) is a PG-13; - Third, the narrator! When the autor decides to change something or introduce something he forgot, he always uses the narrtor! With sucks... As I said before, Netero x Meruem was destroyed by it. Use a narrator in Hunter x Hunter makes no sense and corrupts the plot that lives the watcher scratching is head! -.- |
azertz99Jun 21, 2017 2:39 PM
| it was necessary but annoying. it felt like an exposition dumb, i would have preferred if they found a way to deliver the exposition without constant narration. |
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