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Jan 29, 2016 12:45 PM
#151
umashikaneko said: someone said 'ai takahashi mentioned k-pop international popularity in 2011 even before Psy and before international recognition ' My point is kpop peak is early 2011 in Japan and when psy was popular it has passed peak so that remark doesn't make sense to Japanese Oh well when I said international popularity I meant in Asia and other part of the world. K-pop did get popular even before PSY's Gangnam Style. I mean I don't think you read this: 2006 article-South Korean Culture Wave Spreads Across Asia 2010 CNN article-'Korean Wave' of pop culture sweeps across Asia There was also this article from April 2012 (this was before Gangnam Style went viral) that explain how K-pop got popular in Singapore. K-pop was already gaining popularity in Latin/South America thanks to Korean dramas: 2007 article-Hallyu Reaches Other Side of the World 2005 article-Mexican fans ask Korean President Roh to send hallyu stars 2007 report-Mexico Hallyu (Korean Wave), already on the rise 2011 article-K-Pop in South America. Why so Famous? K-pop got a bit big in Europe somewhere in 2010 I believe according to these reports, again K-dramas was the cause of this: 2006 article-Korean Broadcasts to Be Exported to Eastern Europe K-drama Queen Seon Deok to air in Hungary following the success of Jewel in the Palace/Dae Jang Geum 2011 article-Hallyu wave hit Romania So yes even before Gangnam Style, K-pop was gaining a lot of fanbases it took time. It wasn't until PSY's Gangnam Style that fuel the flame K-pop has gotten around the world. I mean after Gangnam Style K-pop viewership outside of Asia exceed the views it got in Asia. I hope that help you understand better. Even before Gangnam Style, K-pop fanbases was already growing, Psy just add the "gasoline into the flame" and this is where we are now. |
Jan 29, 2016 12:50 PM
#152
mdo7 said: I just quoted someone's opinion that that psy is breakthorough for kpop it is not my opinion in the first place MY point is the remark "takahashi mentioned kpop international popularity even before kpop international breakthrough by Psy"doesn't make sense because when Psy appeared kpop was on the decline in Japan and Whether Japanese care its international popularity or not is solely depending on popularity in Japan |
umashikanekoJan 29, 2016 12:56 PM
Jan 29, 2016 1:01 PM
#153
umashikaneko said: I just quoted someone's opinion that that psy is breakthorough for kpop it is not my opinion in the first place MY point is "takahashi mention kpop international popularity even before kpop international breakthrough by Psy"doesn't make sense because when kpop appeared kpop was on the decline in Japan and Whether Japanese care its international popularity or not is solely depending on popularity in Japan Well as I said, even before PSY's Gangnam Style went viral. K-pop was already gaining popularity around the world. Maybe Ai Takahashi knew about K-pop global breakthrough hence why she made that statement. K-pop got popular because K-dramas's soundtrack and idol actor/actresses help made K-pop gain an international audiences. Does that help? |
Jan 29, 2016 1:07 PM
#154
mdo7 said: umashikaneko said: I just quoted someone's opinion that that psy is breakthorough for kpop it is not my opinion in the first place MY point is "takahashi mention kpop international popularity even before kpop international breakthrough by Psy"doesn't make sense because when psy appeared kpop was on the decline in Japan and Whether Japanese care its international popularity or not is solely depending on popularity in Japan Well as I said, even before PSY's Gangnam Style went viral. K-pop was already gaining popularity around the world. Maybe Ai Takahashi knew about K-pop global breakthrough hence why she made that statement. K-pop got popular because K-dramas's soundtrack and idol actor/actresses help made K-pop gain an international audiences. Does that help? Are you still can not understand my point? i repeated 3-4 times and your reply is always off.It has nothing to do with kpop.It is matter of language and logic If kpop replaced by some other word it is still same. If that example was "m-fro taku mentioned kpop international popularity even after 2015" it very make sense |
umashikanekoJan 29, 2016 1:29 PM
Jan 29, 2016 1:33 PM
#155
umashikaneko said: Are you still can not understand my point? i repeated 3-4 times and your reply is always off.It has nothing to do with kpop.It is matter of language and logic If kpop replaced by some other word it is still same. Oh sorry, well the way you worded it out kind of confuse me. I sort of understand what you're saying. If not, don't worry about it. We're getting a bit off topic here. semss said: i think u have missed my point there, my point is japan already "established" their bad stereotypes for this weirdness (i'm kind of tired repeated this term), unconsciously it already been setup in many ppl mindset, they're cool but also sort of alienated from another nation for s.korea they came from "nothingness"(don't take it's as offense ^^) and that a bad stereotypes?? to not be recognized between s.korea and north korea??? it's just ppl don't know about them don't mean it have bad stigma, most ppl known japan long before Well yes that what people used to describe about South Korea before K-pop and K-dramas help alter their negative views. Even I used to thought this too long time ago (along with no standout pop culture), this was before K-dramas and K-pop changed that for me. semss said: that's why i don't get it clearly in many fan mindset about winning or lossing in this dog eat dog industry, i'm being fan and put my fave acts as top priority, then came time they didn't delivered quality that i prefer, i stick with their old work as my precious, and seek alternative in other act or movement, simple as that, You may not be, but there are rabid J-pop fans that are not happy with K-pop getting more attention. I've seen some fans that attack K-pop and even downright using racist insult at Korean. I hope no rabid J-pop fans will not do any form of terrorism like shoot up Koreatowns or doing heinous because he/she think South Korea is "robbing" Japan's coolness. |
Jan 29, 2016 5:30 PM
#156
| While true most K-pop don't always relies on sexy dancing vibe music, their most well know music are and that is how people will look at it. Same like Hip-hop/Rap, most would think that it is always about violence/drugs and women but some song are actually meaningful. For me I always love the cute side of J-pop idol but that don't mean I have hatred on K-pop. |
Jan 29, 2016 6:32 PM
#157
zetsubousei_hero said: While true most K-pop don't always relies on sexy dancing vibe music, their most well know music are and that is how people will look at it. Same like Hip-hop/Rap, most would think that it is always about violence/drugs and women but some song are actually meaningful. For me I always love the cute side of J-pop idol but that don't mean I have hatred on K-pop. But it still doesn't answer or explain why J-pop fans don't get accepted despite semss's answer. But there still bunch of stuff and questions that I can't let go why J-pop fandom didn't raise hell when accessibility become next to impossible. |
Jan 29, 2016 10:59 PM
#158
semss said: mdo7 said: You may not be, but there are rabid J-pop fans that are not happy with K-pop getting more attention. I've seen some fans that attack K-pop and even downright using racist insult at Korean. I hope no rabid J-pop fans will not do any form of terrorism like shoot up Koreatowns or doing heinous because he/she think South Korea is "robbing" Japan's coolness. haha, u're exaggerated too much there about that "shooting" stuff, i'm not seen any coward otaku(wannabe) will do that xD really, and from what i've seen many hatred came toward onlne basis and i'm aware about it, that's just part of modern culture nowaday which is annoying, yeah, but as i don't care so much , it's not so big problem in my own... There's already a hate group against K-pop done by J-pop fans on Facebook. Also I have seen skirmishes online (Youtube, several online forums) where J-pop fans attacking K-pop fans, and the idols. I've seen some rabid J-pop fans attacked South Korea because they're jealous K-pop idols get more international fame then their beloved J-pop idols. I'm not making this up, I've seen it online. I get a little worried about if K-pop popularity increase, will there be a chance a rabid J-pop fan may not take it anymore because K-pop idols are getting more fame and international recognition. |
Jan 29, 2016 11:22 PM
#159
| Because... most of them have pretty face like manga. kewl music video. Maybe because of that. |
Jan 31, 2016 5:29 PM
#160
| I did found an article from 2012, and it looks like J-pop was accepted long time ago (well in Asia) at one point: 2012 article-The reign of K-pop and I'll quote from the article: Before Hallyu, or the Korean Wave, washed over Singapore, there was Japanese mania. It hit Singapore hard in the 1980s and 1990s, first with singers and actors such as Seiko Matsuda and Momoe Yamaguchi, followed by the likes of SMAP, X-Japan, Speed and Namie Amuro. Their posters and laminated photos sold briskly at retail outlets catering to idol-loving hormonal teens and young adults. Oshin, about the travail and triumphs of a Japanese woman from childhood through motherhood, was among the first huge Japanese drama successes in Singapore when it aired here in the 1980s, long before Korean matinee idol Bae Yong Joon was a twinkle in the eyes of his housewife fans here. Subsequently, Japanese drama serials such as Beach Boys (1997) and GTO: Great Teacher Onizuka (1999) fired up the small screen, even if it was in a language most Singaporeans could not understand. These days, from Girls' Generation to Lee Min Ho and Kim Hyun Joong, it is almost all about Korean pop culture with Singaporeans - and it has taken only a decade for K-pop to not only erase Japanese pop culture's 20-year headstart, but surpass it considerably. What happened? This article was used to explain at another reliable source where it explain how J-pop and it's fandom just decline for the last few years: K-Pop Beats Out J-Pop On the popularity of Korean Pop (K-Pop), Takamasa Sakurai wrote in the Daily Yomiuri: Japan's cultural reach through pop culture such as anime and fashion have intensified globally. But another recent globe-circling trend I can't overlook is the surge of so-called Hanryu power--South Korean entertainment. K-pop has made a breakthrough in the global music market and many South Korean artists and groups frequently hold shows overseas and appear on TV. The South Korean music market is smaller than the one in Japan, so there's no choice for artists there but to venture into the global market. From there, K-pop has influenced a variety of fields, helping to boost the image of South Korean products.I've heard K-pop idols are used in Thai TV commercials for Japanese products. [Source: Takamasa Sakurai, Daily Yomiuri, November 23, 2012] Over the last couple of years, K-pop idols from the South Korean music industry are making drastic breakthroughs, leaving Japanese idols far behind.For example, last year, when I stopped by a shop selling idol-related goods in Taipei, where live performances by Japanese artists are held year-round, the amount of goods on offer was about 70 percent South Korean versus 30 percent Japanese. But this autumn, the ratio widened to 9-to-1, based on my observations. On top of that, half of the Japanese goods were those from the two-dimensional world, or anime characters. (Source: Takamasa Sakurai, Daily Yomiuri, October 28, 2011) A similar trend is seen in China and Southeast Asian countries including Vietnam and Thailand. Additionally, at a number of cultural events abroad such as Japan Expo, whenever I seek the source of girlish squeals, I almost always find my way to a booth showing music video clips of South Korean idols. On why K-Pop groups are so popular, Ai Takahashi of the pop group Morning Musume: "Relatively speaking, South Korean idols have a stronger desire than Japanese idols to make their groups eternal, I think," Takahashi said. "A Hanryu star's passion for global success is stronger [than that of Japanese stars]. That's something Japanese idols don't care about enough." Takahashi's comments can be applied to the current Japanese economy, enterprises and the attitude that Japanese people have toward overseas markets. Whenever I go abroad, I feel the respect and adoration that people overseas have for Japan. Such feelings seem to have been sparked by anime and then spread to have taken root before Japanese even noticed them.I'm frustrated Japan has not fully taken advantage of the situation because of its inflexible approach toward international markets. This inflexibility seems to reflect the nature of Japanese as a whole--they frequently travel abroad but, in reality, cannot adapt themselves. Takahashi said: "I want more people overseas to know about Japan's appeal and music. I believe there's a sound unique to our music. If there's a unique appeal of our music, we should exploit it overseas. "There must be many things that can only be created in the atmosphere of the Asian or Japanese [pop culture industry]. For example, the fact member's heights in a Japanese idol group vary can be seen as unique to Japan," Takahashi said. Japanese culture can stay as it is. What's important is how to disseminate it globally. When I ask young people in China why Hanryu idols are so popular in there, I always get the simple reply: "Because they come here." K-Pop Outclasses J-Pop Warner Music marketing director James Kang told the Strait Times: “J-pop has been slow in its growth to produce fresh sounds and superstar idols. Ever since the peak popularity of Ayumi Hamasaki and Utada Hikaru in the early 2000s, we have not seen bigger stars with 'idol influence' emerge from the land of the rising sun." “Japanese content 'was getting stagnant' while K-pop 'was starting to evolve with a fresher young pop sound'. Korean material seems more attractive, says Kang."Their music videos started to be striking and creative, and the stars are more exciting in image and music." Indeed, the Korean stars do not just perform watered-down versions of their concerts back home. When Girls' Generation and Super Junior staged their concerts here at the Indoor Stadium, they were grand, lengthy affairs with elaborate stage designs - even if the bigger stages meant selling fewer tickets. “Even J-pop fans have become K-pop converts. Operations associate William Neo, 30, a J-pop fan since his teens, really got into Korean girl groups After School and T-ara last October. He says: "Their music is nice, performances are very good and all the girls are quite pretty - the whole packaging is good. "I used to listen to Namie Amuro, Ayumi Hamasaki, but then I lost track of them. In Singapore, they never promote their albums and you seldom hear about them on the Internet unless you really go and search for their songs." “Jason Ng, 31, a relationship manager in an investment bank, says he prefers the idols from Korea to Japan in recent years because of the 'difference in quality', which he attributes to more money and time being spent on grooming Korean idols.He thinks that a Japanese girl would be able to debut in a girl group such as AKB48 almost immediately "if she met the basic criteria of age and looks". "But the girls in Girls' Generation, I believe, spent about five years training their vocals and dancing after they had placed highly in a talent competition." “But die-hard J-pop fans such as National University of Singapore law student Alan Koh, 22, is optimistic that J-mania will survive the test of time. He says: "The interest in K-pop is just a passing phase. I think K-pop will always have its devotees, and the J-pop fan base has relatively lost its strength, but it's okay when everyone's not fighting with you for tickets to a J-pop concert." Why K-Pop Outclasses J-Pop According to Warner Music marketing director James Kang, the fact that J-pop stars have always been more 'distant' and insular compared to K-pop stars played a part in the Korean takeover. He says even at the height of their popularity, girl group Speed, boyband SMAP, pop queen Namie Amuro, visual rock group Glay and current hot group Arashi gave Singapore shores a miss - so no fan meets, no concerts, no showcases. “In contrast, K-pop stars are less shy about stepping out of their country. To be frank, they are all too eager to promote themselves. Sometimes, it seems they are willing to go anywhere in the world for even the opening of an envelope, as long as it is an opportunity for more publicity and the price is right. Indeed, K-pop acts tour Singapore more often than the Japanese, with popular groups such as Girls' Generation, FTIsland and Beast having recently performed here. “Assistant professor Liew Kai Khiun of Nanyang Technological University, whose research areas include television dramas and popular music in Southeast Asia, partly attributes the Hallyu revolution to the Korean government's push to promote all things Korean abroad.He says: "Unlike their Japanese counterparts, the Korean government and the media industry invest significantly in promoting the K-wave in the world as part of the efforts in strengthening the republic's soft power." In Singapore, the Korean government has previously organized and co-funded Korean pop concerts, and has supported the Korean Film Festival, which has been held here annually for the last five years. So not taking the international fanbases and accessibility is the big issue for J-pop. It does explain something, but it doesn't explain how this lead to J-pop fans being stigmatized and not accepted when K-pop got it. The article didn't say anything about J-pop being too weird is turning off people from becoming J-pop fans. the article from 2012 did managed to explain why J-pop fandom just decline but there's still more question then answer even despite the 2012 article has reported. |
Feb 1, 2016 8:22 AM
#161
semss said: long time to check articles xD, so why we are too depend on that, the articles could be bias as we are, as we talk perspective, when u can make ur own deduction by ur own(everyday life), i build that my opinion by my experienced no BS, so it was true story, and i bet there others j-music fan got stigmated like now and at the old time(when J-pop has sort of popularity) You're basing that on small sample (people you talked to), we don't have enough information to make a conclusion to why J-pop fans got stigmatized and led to decline in fandom. did popularity reach a big market??? there are competitior as huge as k pop?? nope it's still ceratin cult from what i've seen, the situation lot different, the variable not simply as k-pop nowaday Well Taiwan and other Asian countries that isn't Japan or Mainland China are trying to replicate their own Hallyu Wave. Why do you think Taiwan has already invested money to revitalized their pop music industry. Why are many artists and idols from other part of Asia like Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, and Singapore are going to South Korea to get training? One thing I do bring up, I can't find any report about J-pop idols going to South Korea for training. semss said: the question of TS was: why j-pop Fan didn't get accepted??widely as k-pop fan?? because it's not so popular right now+there are many bad stigma or weirdness already implied there, some harsh example, - are you ever heard comment like this ^^ ?? "why d f*** this idol akb38, they all look porn actress(talk JAV), nope i'm enough with this weirdo", well i'm not fan of akb48, but it's make me laugh to hear that, and there are lot ppl that i know stereotypes lady/females in japan as AV actress - there many occasion when i hang out with my friend, when time came i pull out some japanese song, and there are no "warm" welcome, "why did you still heard this weirdo, akh you're so weird to still heard this", that's sort of response i've got, yeah in frendly way of course, but when some one pull k-pop, nobody protested , and why?? yeah talk taste, but i'd been laugh long as weirdo in taste because of heard some of j-music so if that small sample in my everyday life didn't work as general argument, then it's still valid in sort way, and yeah i still bet many ppl experienced that Yes true but it still doesn't explain why long time ago why J-pop was accepted and now today it's no longer not. I mean let me show you these, these are from a once active J-pop forum: Where did the j-pop community go? What happened to Jpop community? So you see this is evidences that J-pop was accepted long time ago at one time and it had a big fanbases long time ago like almost on the same level as K-pop is now. Something in J-pop or I don't know what in K-pop made many former fans of J-pop to suddenly drop J-pop and just stick to K-pop. Many of the older fans that no longer are J-pop fans are converted to K-pop fans, a lot of the older K-pop fans that are former J-pop fans aren't helping the new younger generation of K-pop fans to branch out to J-pop like I mentioned. So could you answer these questions: Why are former J-pop fans that are now K-pop fans aren't introducing J-pop to the current young fans of K-pop? How come these J-pop fans are not "raising hell" like their K-pop counterpart? semss said: the one that positive usually are anime fan, weaboo, or other ppl that's alread got touched by japansese culture, in number of "cult" , but talk ppl in general(non fan), it could be different case even if japan already established long before, as they was once the most advanced nation in asia(at their time) but that was long history, lot of thing happen in japan itself(especially in their economic life), and because lack of popularity nowaday, the stigma risen up as hell popularity didn't hold long, especially for certain pop music, if they can't escalated the quality(and accesibility for j-pop), it will get sunk apparently, like j-pop, many ppl already "forgot" it on the way, talk k-pop, maybe it can last long as their supported in many way how huge their popularity nowaday. Some part of it still doesn't make sense. I do agree with the article I linked about how J-pop community/fanbases decline but it doesn't explain why former J-pop fans aren't helping K-pop fans to branch out to J-pop, many will speculate accessibility. If J-pop was accepted long time ago, then what factor could've made it turn it into a stigma and made the J-pop fandom no longer accepted. When K-pop "outweird" J-pop in MVs, or concept it got accepted amongst the mainstream that aren't familiar with K-pop. However, when J-pop does something similar, it doesn't get accepted at all. So that's why this led to more questions then answers on why J-pop suddenly went from popular at one time to completely stigmatized. |
Feb 1, 2016 12:48 PM
#162
| Neither are accepted nor rejected in society unless you're a complete loser with no common decency. Actions count, not taste. It's just like anime, but I guess that's too special to you guys because you watch it either for the memes or for pseudointellectualism. /thread |
Feb 1, 2016 1:03 PM
#163
semss said: I don't get it, why u're so problematic that, to think why japan not replicate s. korea?? Because the fans of Japanese pop culture and even the weeaboo will develop a big resentment against South Korea and it's pop culture for stigmatizing Japanese culture, you said this: semss said: i'll quoted the TS himself: Remv_quevav said: i wish that case was the same here as well coz most people here can identify their difference easily. there was one time a classmate of mine was singing some EXO song and she was praised by the whole class. when I was singing Waltz (H&C ED1) they have this weird look to me and said "Are u Otaku"? It was partly humiliating Remv_quevav said: and if we here talk japan, they go ultra kawaii harem hentai with a little pokemon, voltes 5, voltron, and some masked rider with ultaman stuff damn this stigma on anime rly hurts they even concluded that anime has bug bulgy eyes bcoz "they say" of the americanization of japan/ japanese wants to be americans there are many ppl like us that kinda "suffered" by many kind of stigma in j culture, and that's fact(for us), to lead our taste judge as weird by society/ppl in general. Those that love or like Japanese culture and don't open their mind to Korean pop culture are going to be the one that'll probably resent Korean pop culture (that's what happened to me one time online). I've already encountered people that love Japanese pop culture but hate Korean pop culture because they claim that South Korea rob Japan of it's coolness. So it's going create more haters of K-pop and people that faced discrimination because of their love of Japanese pop culture will develop a hate for South Korea and Korean pop culture. the answer itself lied in your, K-Pop overwhelmed J-Pop, by popularity, accessibility, sound, etc , and pop music usually is always about something new/trendy, so talk fandom just BS, once k-pop explode ppl forget about their past And these same former J-pop fans never bothered to introduce J-pop to a wider K-pop audiences? The J-pop fandom could've grown if these former J-pop fandom had just introduced the genre. Well that and had J-pop been more accessible (including not blocking MVs on Youtube, and made all of J-music available on Itunes). As I said, any current J-pop fans that aren't fans of K-pop are going to develop resentment against K-pop. and like i said up there, the situation kinda different, j-pop at their "big popularity", still look like a "cult" compared to k-pop nowaday, i mean many ppl that's non fan of k-pop heard couples of song snsd or psy, did that j-pop at that time have that kind of variable?? nope, the listener is just on their own circle i bet, so the influence of k-pop nowaday>>j-pop that time Well it's true they didn't have Youtube back in early 2000's and J-pop didn't go "mainstream" outside of Asia like K-pop is getting right now. But the fact that J-pop was at one time wasn't stigmatized and was accepted kinda made me wonder a lot. j-pop accepted long ago, but from what i've seen(my opinion) and said again and again the popularity of those old j-pop isn't the same as k-pop nowaday, that time j-pop is just on their own circle or on certain nation in asia, i bet many ppl out of their circle call them as weirdo or otaku it could be many factor about risen the stigma, talk internet culture etc, but the main thing is the stigma is there, always there, but the one that "executed" those stigma not fan but society/ppl in general, and it's not help if it not so popular As that article stated, there were J-dramas played in other countries long time ago. I mean how does one watching J-dramas are called otaku? As a matter of fact, we don't get a lot of J-dramas on streaming sites. So that means a lot of the soundtrack for J-dramas back then would've made J-pop back then acceptable. I'll agreed there were many factors, but there still a lot of unanswered questions on why J-pop which was once accepted just fell despite J-dramas at one time was popular. How could former J-pop fans couldn't introduce J-pop to a wider K-pop audiences when K-pop fans are branching out to other Asian pop like Taiwanese pop. How did K-pop weirdness get accepted yet when J-pop does something similar, it's not accepted? Now this make me and other people wonder if J-pop idols/artists should crossover to K-pop in order to be "accepted"? |
Feb 1, 2016 1:05 PM
#164
Rinshansan said: Neither are accepted nor rejected in society unless you're a complete loser with no common decency. Actions count, not taste. It's just like anime, but I guess that's too special to you guys because you watch it either for the memes or for pseudointellectualism. It sill doesn't explain why many former J-pop fans aren't helping current K-pop fans branching out to J-pop. I agree it could be accessibility, but why didn't J-pop fans raise hell when J-pop MVs are being blocked is the one that'll baffle me. |
Feb 2, 2016 2:54 AM
#165
mdo7 said: Rinshansan said: Neither are accepted nor rejected in society unless you're a complete loser with no common decency. Actions count, not taste. It's just like anime, but I guess that's too special to you guys because you watch it either for the memes or for pseudointellectualism. It sill doesn't explain why many former J-pop fans aren't helping current K-pop fans branching out to J-pop. I agree it could be accessibility, but why didn't J-pop fans raise hell when J-pop MVs are being blocked is the one that'll baffle me. Because you're not the one to tell other people what they're to do. It's that simple. |
Feb 2, 2016 6:32 AM
#166
Rinshansan said: Because you're not the one to tell other people what they're to do. It's that simple. That's not really a sufficient answer and not really helping me there. |
Feb 2, 2016 7:26 AM
#167
mdo7 said: Rinshansan said: Because you're not the one to tell other people what they're to do. It's that simple. That's not really a sufficient answer and not really helping me there. how is it not a sufficient answer? pardon my language, but your question was kind of pointless to begin with. why many former J-pop fans aren't helping current K-pop fans branching out to J-pop Because the traditional idol j pop sucks. I had friends in high school who were obsessed with k pop bands like tvxq and big bang, but when I tried to show them some j pop, they didn't like it. Well, of course they didn't like it. If there had been an equivalent on the japanese market, then tvxq would never have been so successful there. That's the long and short of it: j pop generally sucks. That, or it appeals only to people with nontraditional music tastes. as for the second part of your question, why nobody protested when MV's are blocked on youtube, well, j pop mvs are have never been on youtube. i remember downloading PVs illegally just to look at them, or searching on korean Naver. so yeah. another example of the japanese being really bad at global trade. |
Feb 2, 2016 8:53 AM
#168
| kpop is probably accepted because of kdrama, same reason jpop is more popular towards those who enjoy watching anime (and yes, i can already see the elitists claiming otherwise, telling me about their "superior" taste or whatever) korean dramas became popular in the west, and since korean songs are used in kdramas for obvious reaons, kpop also became popular abroad. another reason is that some kpop songs are "sexy" and "party-friendly", two qualities most valued among the western audience (there's a reason Gangnam Style became so popular when it was shown in the US). now, some would try and claim their "superior" taste and how kpop "sounds better", but then singers like Cyrus are very popular despite the average at best singing voice and not-so-great lyrics. jpop is not popular because it's often associated with anime, which in itself is already stigmatized as "shows for kids". and the fact that seldom a person will willingly expand their music taste to include songs completely different from what he/she is used to. jdramas could help promote jpop, but it remains obscure, shadowed by the popularity of kpop (and those who already watch kpop see no reason to watch something that probably looks very similar, but without subs available). anime promotes jpop, but since anime is already seen as "for kids", it doesn't really help jpop grow in fanbase outside of those who already like jpop songs. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
Feb 3, 2016 9:10 AM
#169
Moniisek said: mdo7 said: Rinshansan said: Because you're not the one to tell other people what they're to do. It's that simple. That's not really a sufficient answer and not really helping me there. how is it not a sufficient answer? pardon my language, but your question was kind of pointless to begin with. The problem is the other person response didn't really add to the answer why J-pop fandom decline. My question wasn't pointless, a lot of us want to know why J-pop fandom just suddenly decline and ended up being stigmatized by non-fans. Also I agreed with some common factors why J-pop fandom decline, but there are other issues that need to be resolved and addressed. Why? Because I don't want whatever caused J-pop popularity and fandom/community decline to do the same to K-pop and Taiwanese pop in the future. That's why I (and other people) want to get to the bottom of the answer to find out why J-pop decline so the K-pop fandom/community can learn from it so K-pop will not face this similar crisis in the future, the same can be said for Taiwanese pop in the future. Moniisek said: Because the traditional idol j pop sucks. I had friends in high school who were obsessed with k pop bands like tvxq and big bang, but when I tried to show them some j pop, they didn't like it. Well, of course they didn't like it. If there had been an equivalent on the japanese market, then tvxq would never have been so successful there. That's the long and short of it: j pop generally sucks. That, or it appeals only to people with nontraditional music tastes. Taiwanese Pop doesn't have a lot and yet fans of K-pop are branching out to Taiwanese pop, can you explain why? I mean how are there K-pop fans branching out to Taiwanese pop but not J-pop. What is in J-pop which is turning off K-pop fans when "J-pop is crap", yet when Taiwanese pop doesn't offer a lot it still get a small growth from fans of K-pop while J-pop see little to no growth. I think some may attributed to Taiwanese dramas, but why K-pop fans aren't branching out to J-pop really mystified me. Moniisek said: as for the second part of your question, why nobody protested when MV's are blocked on youtube, well, j pop mvs are have never been on youtube. i remember downloading PVs illegally just to look at them, or searching on korean Naver. so yeah. another example of the japanese being really bad at global trade. Uh, that's not correct. There were J-pop MVs (both official and fan-uploaded ones) on Youtube long time ago, I can back this up: This J-pop fans said this on another forum in 2012: think jpop would be bigger if it were more accessible. Six years ago I had no issues finding my Japanese music. It was so easy. I could search for KAT-TUN on YouTube of all places. Now Japanese music gets taken down so quickly. It's ridiculous. I feel like I'm stuck listening to the music of the past and I can't find any new Japanese artists to follow because they're so hard to find. And I know one user that used to had a YT channel where he uploaded J-pop MVs long time ago (and some of his MVs he uploaded get over a million views before it was taken down): I think the restriction on copyright killed the scene in part. I had 2 YouTube channels killed, one by Avex and one by Sony. I had a number of videos on there with nearly a million views. This was like in 2007 and 2008 I believe. Another user wrote this on the same thread: The first three pages of 'my favorites video' on YT which contained hundreds of j-pop(related) videos of 2007 and prior, with a lot of fansubbed material as well, were all fckn deleted. Ugh Japan and copyright. So there was J-pop on Youtube long time ago and it was all taken down. Why J-pop fans didn't raise hell over this like K-pop fandom did in 2013 just make me scratch my head. So explain that? DreamingBeats said: kpop is probably accepted because of kdrama, same reason jpop is more popular towards those who enjoy watching anime (and yes, i can already see the elitists claiming otherwise, telling me about their "superior" taste or whatever) korean dramas became popular in the west, and since korean songs are used in kdramas for obvious reaons, kpop also became popular abroad. another reason is that some kpop songs are "sexy" and "party-friendly", two qualities most valued among the western audience (there's a reason Gangnam Style became so popular when it was shown in the US). now, some would try and claim their "superior" taste and how kpop "sounds better", but then singers like Cyrus are very popular despite the average at best singing voice and not-so-great lyrics. jpop is not popular because it's often associated with anime, which in itself is already stigmatized as "shows for kids". and the fact that seldom a person will willingly expand their music taste to include songs completely different from what he/she is used to. jdramas could help promote jpop, but it remains obscure, shadowed by the popularity of kpop (and those who already watch kpop see no reason to watch something that probably looks very similar, but without subs available). anime promotes jpop, but since anime is already seen as "for kids", it doesn't really help jpop grow in fanbase outside of those who already like jpop songs. I agreed and am fully aware that K-dramas were the one that help K-pop became more well-known. I know about the lack of J-dramas on legal streaming sites. I would agree it's one factor. I do agree there are factors that cause J-pop fandom/community decline like accessibility, lack of J-dramas, and not taking the international fandom/market seriously like how South Korea is doing (Taiwan maybe able to replicate this in the future). But there are other factors in J-pop fandom decline that need to be addressed: Why didn't J-pop fandom unified and raise hell when YT block J-pop and when J-pop accessbility became a big issue? Why are K-pop fans are former J-pop fans, yet K-pop fans aren't branching out to J-pop? Why are K-pop fans branching out to Taiwanese pop despite Taiwanese pop is not as entertaining as J-pop? Was Taiwanese dramas the factor behind this? Of J-pop was too weird to be accepted by people outside of Asia, then why did K-pop get accepted when their weird concept, and MVs "out-weird" J-pop and yet those get accepted? When J-pop does something similar, it's not accepted? They have to be addressed so in the future it won't happened to K-pop and Taiwanese pop in the future. A lot of J-pop fans would want to know why and how did J-pop fandom just fell. |
Feb 3, 2016 10:13 AM
#170
| @mdo7 uhm. yeah. LONG time ago. it's 2016 not 2007 (i listened to j pop in 2011/12). why do you even care lol jpop (here I mean exclusively idols) is just not popular now. I don't know why others don't like it. I personally think the songs sound dated and not enough effort/money is put into production. it may be popular again in the forthcoming decade. that's how trends go. indie/vocaloid scene is awesome though. |
fadesFeb 3, 2016 10:24 AM
Feb 3, 2016 10:25 AM
#171
Moniisek said: it may be popular again in the forthcoming decade. that's how trends go. indie/vocaloid scene is awesome though. Because many J-pop fans want to know what led to the decline. There's already fans of J-pop that resent K-pop (even going as far as to develop racist tendency against Korean). |
Feb 3, 2016 10:28 AM
#172
mdo7 said: There's already fans of J-pop that resent K-pop (even going as far as to develop racist tendency against Korean). well, that's very stupid and not helping the image of j-pop AT ALL. |
fadesFeb 3, 2016 11:42 AM
Feb 3, 2016 10:41 AM
#173
Moniisek said: mdo7 said: There's already fans of J-pop that resent K-pop (even going as far as to develop racist tendency against Korean). well, that's very stupid and not helping the image of j-pop AT ALL. I know, and I'm afraid they may also take it out on Taiwanese pop (and Taiwan in general) if that ever become popular worldwide in the future. I'm afraid for one rabid J-pop fans may commit a hate crime against Korean or the K-pop fandom/community because this person was mad that K-pop got more attention and recognition then J-pop. As I said, the reason I want to investigate this is because I want to know why are J-pop fans not being vocal over the accessibility issues when K-pop fandom were able to do this in 2013. I want to know what is turning off K-pop fans from becoming J-pop fans too, I want to know why Taiwanese pop despite not being impressive like J-pop were able to get K-pop fans to branch out to Taiwanese pop/entertainment when this is not happening in J-pop. We know it's accessibility, and lack of interaction between idols and international fans. But there are still unanswered questions that need to be answered. If those can be answered, then we can prevent another similar incident in K-pop and Taiwanese pop in the future. K-pop maybe at it's prime, but it's going to face a possible rival, I know it'll be Taiwan in the future. So if we know what caused J-pop fandom/community decline then we can learn from it so it doesn't happen to K-pop and Taiwanese pop in the future. Don't you want to know how J-pop really just fell? I don't know if it's only trend that cause J-pop fandom/community to decline, there were other factors. |
Feb 3, 2016 11:38 AM
#174
Jun 3, 2016 6:12 PM
#175
Moniisek said: probably lots of reasons at once. I don't care, to me it's just fashion trends changing. waste my time digging around on the internetz? No. @AIDSKrillex I found some critical evidence that shed some light about K-pop and J-pop in early 2000's. Today, K-pop would be the dominant, and J-pop today is now stigmatized. But back in early 2000's, it was the opposite. Read this thread from Onehallyu: Remember when a lot Jpop fans were in denial when Kpop was rising in 2000s? So yes long time ago, J-pop was gaining a lot of international fandom and K-pop was stigmatized amongst western fanbases and J-pop fans look down on it back then. I mean I'm going to quote it here: user1 said: Back in the 00s many jpop fans were mocking kpop as a jpop knockoff and claimed it would never take off saying the music was bland, the aesthetics were weird, and lots of criticisms (some jpop fans were discovering kpop in trickles thanks to BoA back then). Jpop had a huge international fandom back then too without Youtube and people hung out more in Livejournals and stuff... user2 said: me being one of them, tho i only thought Kpop would never out do Jpop popularity wise but of course this was the time when Ayumi Hamasaki was still the supreme queen, BoA couldnt be stopped from having a no.1 album, and TVXQ were the odd men out as the only Korean boyband who could get a significant amount of attention. NOW not only do you got a number of nugus and respected groups snatching wigs on the weekly charts out of nowhere, and a Korean only imported album making the Oricon year end charts but im pretty sure in a popularity poll around Asia Jpop would lose, badly. user3 said: I definitely remember those days. I would try to get JPop fans to listen to KPop like a decade ago, and they were not having it. They saw it as cheap, trashy, dated, and too Western. Things started to change around 2009 / 2010. Like I said in another thread, I saw that KPop was going to rise. Around 2008 things started to change. I mean if you look at SNSD's "Into The New World" video and Shinee's "Replay" video, they look and sound like they were made in different decades even though they are less than a year apart. KPop had stepped its pussy game up. On the other hand, it was around this time that JPop started to change. A lot of the international JPop fandom was based around female soloists, and a number of them had either gone to shit or disappeared around that time. And then the idol boom happened, which completely changed the landscape. A lot of people either switched to KPop because it was giving them that fresh mainstream pop they wanted, or just dropped out of the scene completely. And then there is the increasing withdraw of Japan from the rest of the world, while Korea is trying to make a name for itself now. The countries are in 2 completely different places as far as notoriety goes, and this is reflected in the international fandom of its music. Japan is kinda in a "been there, done that" mode, as are a lot of international JPop fans. Korea is busting out on the scene, trying to make itself known, and international KPop fans are exactly the same way. People complain about how Japanese things aren't subbed, but this is where that "been there, done that" thing comes in. Korea is just getting to the place where Japan was years ago. Things are changing in JPop again now, and there are some fans complaining about it. The idol boom has died, and now indie is the thing. People were tired of the larger than life qualities of the female soloists and wanted acts that were more like regular people, so the idol boom happened. And then people grew tired of manufactured acts and wanted something more authentic, so now we have the band boom. Maybe in a few years, the people will want something more fun, and mainstream pop will be a thing again. But maybe this won't happen due to the decline of the youth population and their bleak economic outlook. And there's also the fragmentation of the market, where nothing is super huge like it was a decade ago. This has led to more and more niches popping up and gaining support. user4 said: Tbh at that era Kpop weren't as good as they are now, you know how they dressed up HOT and DBSK back then... And kpop was beginning to stop lip syncing at Boa era I think At that era Jpop was huge with Ayu, Hikki, Larc, XJapan, etc, I never liked their boy/girlgroups But in between my school friends they open to Kpop more, they said it sounds a lot more like western song, so at 2000s I did see more Kpop fans rather than Jpop (I was JRock fan and its like the rarest group ever...) SNSD and Big Bang came around 2006-7ish where Kpop already pretty much establish their identity Jpop did lose a lot of international relevancy after Japan being so petty by blocking a lot of Jpop content at youtube ._. But their domestic sales are huge, top groups can easily sell million copies. user5 said: I didn't see many Jpop fans back then, but I remember some saying SNSD was a knockoff of Morning Musume. Also, I had a friend that put down TVXQ's achievements because they weren't as famous News and Kat-tun. (She also said Koreans shouldn't sing in Japan) So that means J-pop long time ago was accepted and K-pop didn't. But it still doesn't answer my questions why J-pop just suddenly lost it's global relevence and why former J-pop fans that became K-pop fans never went back to J-pop. But the evidence of J-pop being accepted by international audiences and K-pop being demonized/stigmatized did really happened. |
mdo7Jun 3, 2016 6:24 PM
Jun 5, 2016 1:09 AM
#176
mdo7 said: So that means J-pop long time ago was accepted and K-pop didn't. But it still doesn't answer my questions why J-pop just suddenly lost it's global relevence and why former J-pop fans that became K-pop fans never went back to J-pop. But the evidence of J-pop being accepted by international audiences and K-pop being demonized/stigmatized did really happened. I don't know why J-pop suddenly fell but I think one of the factors why former J-pop fans that became K-pop fans never went back to J-pop is availability of resources. K-pop compared to J-pop has their music videos on Youtube in full length. While J-pop channels only upload half the song and strictly give copyright strikes for leaks/copies. Even when K-pop idols perform on music shows, they perform and promote their whole song 4 times a week on 4 different shows for on average 3-4 weeks. There's also quite an abundance of people who are willing to translate and subtitle these idols on variety shows. Through what the K-pop fans are given, they are exposed to K-pop more and see the appeal of it. On my personal anecdote, I got hooked onto K-pop through its music first and then the variety shows the idols appeared on. This all happened around 2008. |
Jun 5, 2016 6:40 AM
#177
| Kpop is very similar to mainstream western music except . they sing in korean! A lot of groups have also adapted to hiphop genres which is v popular |
Jun 5, 2016 7:30 AM
#178
yajuns said: I don't know why J-pop suddenly fell but I think one of the factors why former J-pop fans that became K-pop fans never went back to J-pop is availability of resources. K-pop compared to J-pop has their music videos on Youtube in full length. While J-pop channels only upload half the song and strictly give copyright strikes for leaks/copies. Even when K-pop idols perform on music shows, they perform and promote their whole song 4 times a week on 4 different shows for on average 3-4 weeks. There's also quite an abundance of people who are willing to translate and subtitle these idols on variety shows. Through what the K-pop fans are given, they are exposed to K-pop more and see the appeal of it. Accessibility is one of the issue, we've brought this up before. But as I said it in my previous posts: Why didn't J-pop fans raise hell like their K-pop counterpart did when it comes to accessibility? Also it doesn't explain why back in early 2000's, J-pop was accepted and K-pop was demonized/stigmatized and then many years later now it's J-pop being demonized and K-pop treated like a gift from god. yajuns said: On my personal anecdote, I got hooked onto K-pop through its music first and then the variety shows the idols appeared on. This all happened around 2008. I have a question for you: before K-pop, were you a fan of J-pop? raibs said: Kpop is very similar to mainstream western music except . they sing in korean! A lot of groups have also adapted to hiphop genres which is v popular Although this is true. But back in early 2000's (as evidence back up), K-pop was hated by westerners because K-pop sounded too western at the time when J-pop was getting more international audiences. So why did K-pop get a 180 turn from hating to being accepted in early 2000's, and why did J-pop went from accepted to demonized today? That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. If J-pop was accepted long time ago why is it hated/demonized by the same people that used to hate K-pop long time ago? Why did many former J-pop fans that became K-pop fans never went back to J-pop? I had a talk with @miimuutan who by the way is probably the only J-pop expert on MAL and she told me this: miimuutan said: Reason three: they get turned away from JPOP because of groups like AKB48, which are at the front of mainstream JPOP and therefore are usually the first result to pop up when someone googles JPOP or whatnot. But the one I bolded doesn't make sense to me. How do people get turned away from AKB48 yet they accept their K-pop counterpart like I.O.I and WJSN/Cosmic Girls and they accept 8-9 member girl groups like Girls Generation/SNSD, Twice, Lovelyz, and Oh My Girl yet they don't accept AKB48. That part make me scratch my head. |
Jun 7, 2016 8:02 PM
#179
| In a follow up to the previous OH thread I posted, I found another evidence that J-pop did used to be very popular amongst western fans in early 2000's before K-pop took over. Again there was evidence that K-pop was demonized and stigmatized in early 2000's before it became what it is now. International K-Pop fandom 2016 reminds me of Jpop fandom in 2006 And I'll quote these from the forum: user1 said: Back then if you go to tumblr, Livejournal. forums (Youtube still wasnt very big so people usually download videos so we dont really have a count of views but if comments are to be relied upon there were a lot) people were all about Japanese boy groups (Johnnies) and Jpop queens (especially the Avex ones like Ayumi, Koda, BoA and crooners like Utada) Stans proving to other stans why their faves are more relevant because oricon sales = everything back then it's all about how many millions of CDs can your faves sell imho tho jpop 2006 had more translators and a lot of stans were self-sufficient when it came to info because a lot of fans learned Japanese while current kpop stans rely a bit too much with translators in their fandom which is why only groups with a sizeable following have a huge trove of info kpop was also rising at this point but was far from huge yet (it will be in a two years or so) and jpop fans were so defensive that kpop 'will never be a thing' boy they were wrong user2 said: can see some similarities between JPop fans in 2006 and KPop fans now, but not a whole lot. KPop fans are a lot more... messy and childish. And I did think that KPop could be a thing back then. I would post KPop in the JPop section of the forum I was on back then, and I would get so much hate for it, because KPop was seen as cheap and trashy, which it was in a lot of cases. The JPop fans I talked to back then started coming around in like 2009 / 2010 once the idol boom took off in Japan and pretty much killed off all their faves from the previous decade. I think we're still in that stage now, simply because more contemporary pop music, like that of last decade, hasn't become a thing again in Japan. Indie, adult contemporary, and idols are what's big now, and this isn't for everybody. user3 said: YouTube was huge for jpop fans. There were tons of translated music videos and variety shows before it was taken down. But yes the popularity of kpop is similar to the popularity of jpop with the international crowd but it has lasted way longer. Also jpop fans called kpop cheap cuz it was in the 00s. They were literally ripping off other country's popular songs and trying to get away with it. It happened with mandopop too. oh and kpop companies would churn out like a doppelganger of whatever popular artist was doing at the time. So that means J-pop's international fandom was accepted long time ago and K-pop at that time was demonized. These are the evidences that back it up. So judging from reading the 2 threads from Onehallyu and using other information I gathered, somewhere between 2009-2010, something in J-pop turned off many J-pop fans into becoming K-pop fans and they never went back to J-pop after that, and J-pop's international fandom never recovered after that. What was the factor that caused many international J-pop fandom to just go downhill like that, we know so far that...: 1. accessibility (as people said, after J-pop on Youtube started to be removed, that was one factor) 2. ? (the 2nd factor is the mystery. Whatever it was in J-pop that caused many international/western J-pop fans to be turned off and became K-pop fans and never look back at J-pop after that) But the question about what cause J-pop's international fandom to greatly decline is still a mystery to this day. I'm still investigating this myself. I wish someone who was a J-pop fans since 2000 can probably tell me what event in 2009/2010 caused many international J-pop fans to no longer become J-pop fans. |
Jun 10, 2016 6:22 PM
#180
| Where I come from, you're a weirdo if you listen to Asian music, whatever it is. |
Jun 12, 2016 12:00 PM
#181
Kotoneko-chan said: Where I come from, you're a weirdo if you listen to Asian music, whatever it is. I thought Korean stuff was popular in Spain (yes your MAL profile said you're from Spain). |
Jun 12, 2016 1:32 PM
#182
mdo7 said: Kotoneko-chan said: Where I come from, you're a weirdo if you listen to Asian music, whatever it is. I thought Korean stuff was popular in Spain (yes your MAL profile said you're from Spain). Really? I think I've never met people here who were into Korean stuff xD I think that in my country Japanese things (specially anime, there is a good amount of anime fans here xD) are far more popular. Even so, I don't see a lot of people listening to Asian music. I might be wrong, but I would say that Korean stuff is more popular in countries of South America than here. PS: I almost forgot to see the link you posted xD Well, 2,000 don't seem a lot of K-pop fans to me, to be honest xD |
Jun 12, 2016 2:46 PM
#183
Kotoneko-chan said: Really? I think I've never met people here who were into Korean stuff xD I think that in my country Japanese things (specially anime, there is a good amount of anime fans here xD) are far more popular. Even so, I don't see a lot of people listening to Asian music. I might be wrong, but I would say that Korean stuff is more popular in countries of South America than here. PS: I almost forgot to see the link you posted xD Well, 2,000 don't seem a lot of K-pop fans to me, to be honest xD Well if Korean stuff isn't popular, then how do you explain this: University Students Host Hallyu Events In Spain And Portugal 2008 article-Spain discovers Korea and cries out for more Also this iconic K-drama was shown in Spain, and it was the first to be shown in western Europe. So you don't know how many K-pop fans there could be in Spain. |
Jun 12, 2016 3:07 PM
#184
mdo7 said: Kotoneko-chan said: Really? I think I've never met people here who were into Korean stuff xD I think that in my country Japanese things (specially anime, there is a good amount of anime fans here xD) are far more popular. Even so, I don't see a lot of people listening to Asian music. I might be wrong, but I would say that Korean stuff is more popular in countries of South America than here. PS: I almost forgot to see the link you posted xD Well, 2,000 don't seem a lot of K-pop fans to me, to be honest xD Well if Korean stuff isn't popular, then how do you explain this: University Students Host Hallyu Events In Spain And Portugal 2008 article-Spain discovers Korea and cries out for more Also this iconic K-drama was shown in Spain, and it was the first to be shown in western Europe. So you don't know how many K-pop fans there could be in Spain. Oh, those links were really interesting, thanks for posting them :) As I said before, I might be wrong. I don't see or know a lot of Spaniard K-pop fans, so I got used to the idea that they were really rare here. Also, living in a small city reinforces that idea xD But hey, I guess that every day you learn something new :) |
Jun 12, 2016 3:20 PM
#185
Kotoneko-chan said: Oh, those links were really interesting, thanks for posting them :) As I said before, I might be wrong. I don't see or know a lot of Spaniard K-pop fans, so I got used to the idea that they were really rare here. Also, living in a small city reinforces that idea xD But hey, I guess that every day you learn something new :) I want you to meet this K-pop idol/actor, Kim Hyun Joong he's the star from 2 K-dramas that were based on manga, he has a lot of fans in Spain when he came there in 2010: |
Jun 13, 2016 7:13 AM
#186
I want you to meet this K-pop idol/actor, Kim Hyun Joong he's the star from 2 K-dramas that were based on manga, he has a lot of fans in Spain when he came there in 2010: Oh, I see. It's a shame that I can't see that kind of things happening in my area >w< |
Jul 8, 2016 3:02 PM
#187
Kotoneko-chan said: Oh, I see. It's a shame that I can't see that kind of things happening in my area >w< Well back on topic, even to this day. We don't know why these former J-pop fans never went back to J-pop. I don't know why J-pop and K-pop back then just suddenly "changed role" and now it's J-pop being demonized and K-pop is the "it"/popular Asian pop genre. It still a mystery even to this day, and no J-pop fans not have a single idea what cause that much decline for J-pop international audiences. |
Jul 13, 2016 8:03 AM
#188
| I recall an article from 2014 and I remember this little passage which confirmed that K-pop wasn't accepted back then in early 2000's amongst western audiences: I first became interested in Kpop with the release of DBSK’s Hug in 2004. Like any young fangirl, I blew up my social media sites with pictures and videos of my newfound love. However, I received an overwhelming amount of criticism from friends: “But you’re not Korean?” “Why are you into this? You don’t even speak Korean.” “Korean music is really weird.” “But you don’t understand what they’re saying.” Fast forward 9 years and the rise of Kpop has become a world-wide phenomenon. The very same people who questioned my interest in Kpop are now jamming to Big Bang and criticizing me yet again, but this time for not hearing the latest Kpop song. So you see, if K-pop wasn't accepted back then and J-pop had more global/international audiences. Then what happened in 2009/2010 (other then accessbility) for the sudden "about face" for J-pop and K-pop? |
Jul 13, 2016 8:07 AM
#189
| Kpop is still backlashed in my country as incomprehensible, repetitive music. Jpop fans are practically none existent to where I live. Or rather, not that "loud" because Jpop itself has little promotion outside the anime community. |
Jul 13, 2016 8:15 AM
#190
Calypso said: Kpop is still backlashed in my country as incomprehensible, repetitive music. Jpop fans are practically none existent to where I live. Or rather, not that "loud" because Jpop itself has little promotion outside the anime community. What country do you live in? |
Jul 13, 2016 8:27 AM
#191
Calypso said: Kpop is still backlashed in my country as incomprehensible, repetitive music. Jpop fans are practically none existent to where I live. Or rather, not that "loud" because Jpop itself has little promotion outside the anime community. Philippines. Sure, OOR had a concert here once but only because people petitioned and not because OOR was recognized immediately by the country as a group they could invite because Jpop is mostly associated with anime here. And yes, Kpop is popular but only die hard fans would say that they are really accepted. They are accepted because there is a large number of us and so we are actually just accepting ourselves because we're that huge. And because it's really popular here that people that are still unware of it shy away from Kpop just because of lack of understanding of lyrics rather than appreciation of music. |
Jul 13, 2016 8:31 AM
#192
Calypso said: Philippines. Sure, OOR had a concert here once but only because people petitioned and not because OOR was recognized immediately by the country as a group they could invite because Jpop is mostly associated with anime here. And yes, Kpop is popular but only die hard fans would say that they are really accepted. They are accepted because there is a large number of us and so we are actually just accepting ourselves because we're that huge. And because it's really popular here that people that are still unware of it shy away from Kpop just because of lack of understanding of lyrics rather than appreciation of music. I thought Korean stuff was popular, isn't Sandara Park aka Dara of 2NE1 a big celebrity in your country? and I recall a lot of hit K-dramas get Fillipino remake. So if K-pop if you say face backlash, then how do you explain your country keep remaking K-dramas and the fact that Dara of 2NE1 being a big celebrity over there? |
Jul 13, 2016 8:35 AM
#193
mdo7 said: Calypso said: Philippines. Sure, OOR had a concert here once but only because people petitioned and not because OOR was recognized immediately by the country as a group they could invite because Jpop is mostly associated with anime here. And yes, Kpop is popular but only die hard fans would say that they are really accepted. They are accepted because there is a large number of us and so we are actually just accepting ourselves because we're that huge. And because it's really popular here that people that are still unware of it shy away from Kpop just because of lack of understanding of lyrics rather than appreciation of music. I thought Korean stuff was popular, isn't Sandara Park aka Dara of 2NE1 a big celebrity in your country? and I recall a lot of hit K-dramas get Fillipino remake. So if K-pop if you say face backlash, then how do you explain your country keep remaking K-dramas and the fact that Dara of 2NE1 being a big celebrity over there? simply because it sells and engages people to watch shows (that's why the keep inviting Dara to talk shows). The Kpop community itself when talked about isn't taken as seriously. |
Jul 13, 2016 8:37 AM
#194
Calypso said: simply because it sells and engages people to watch shows (that's why the keep inviting Dara to talk shows). The Kpop community itself when talked about isn't taken as seriously. So what about K-dramas? If K-pop isn't popular, then how the hell does your country keep remaking K-dramas and from what I read, K-dramas is super popular in your country? Don't tell me that people in your country that watch K-dramas don't branch out to K-pop? |
Jul 13, 2016 8:43 AM
#195
mdo7 said: Calypso said: simply because it sells and engages people to watch shows (that's why the keep inviting Dara to talk shows). The Kpop community itself when talked about isn't taken as seriously. So what about K-dramas? If K-pop isn't popular, then how the hell does your country keep remaking K-dramas and from what I read, K-dramas is super popular in your country? Don't tell me that people in your country that watch K-dramas don't branch out to K-pop? A lot dont. I know a lot who watch Kdramas but really aren't into Kpop. Many housewives watch Kdramas too and I doubt they'd jam to something like Call Me Baby. IMO, Kdramas have good plot that's why many people watch it I may have come off the wrong way though. I'm not generalizing really the country anymore since I cant speak for that. But I know a lot of people in my region mocking some of my friends and I for listening to "Chinese Music". We live in a sorta not so industrialized but still populated area so we go to the capital often just so we could be free to love Kpop~ (because you know, conventions and stuff) |
Jul 13, 2016 8:44 AM
#196
| @Calypso I found an article from 2014 from your country regarding K-pop, and I'll quote this: Is KPop killing OPM? With Hallyu sweeping through young Filipinos, KPop has drawn flak from some Pinoy music fans who point to it as one reason the local music industry is underperforming. Is OPM dead? “Maybe we are just waiting for another Eraserheads or Rivermaya,” Deen said when asked about OPM’s lackluster sales. “I think we have to learn from how Korea train their artists, [and how they] package them... in terms of talent, we have that, but in terms of [packaging], kulang. I think we have to sell our talent.” While Kpop is huge globally, a bigger wave than Hallyu is hitting our shores: globalization. Hallyuwave is just one part of it. We are a nation still hungry for identity. Foreign trends keep coming to our shores and we welcome them, but in order to make our own impact, we must find our edge, sharpen it, and let it grow. The Philippines has a wealth of skill and talent; if we learn how to utilize these, maybe someday we will not only be fans, but the subject of adoration ourselves. Could that be the reason why in your area you're living in is why K-pop is getting backlash? |
Jul 13, 2016 8:52 AM
#197
mdo7 said: @Calypso I found an article from 2014 from your country regarding K-pop, and I'll quote this: Is KPop killing OPM? With Hallyu sweeping through young Filipinos, KPop has drawn flak from some Pinoy music fans who point to it as one reason the local music industry is underperforming. Is OPM dead? “Maybe we are just waiting for another Eraserheads or Rivermaya,” Deen said when asked about OPM’s lackluster sales. “I think we have to learn from how Korea train their artists, [and how they] package them... in terms of talent, we have that, but in terms of [packaging], kulang. I think we have to sell our talent.” While Kpop is huge globally, a bigger wave than Hallyu is hitting our shores: globalization. Hallyuwave is just one part of it. We are a nation still hungry for identity. Foreign trends keep coming to our shores and we welcome them, but in order to make our own impact, we must find our edge, sharpen it, and let it grow. The Philippines has a wealth of skill and talent; if we learn how to utilize these, maybe someday we will not only be fans, but the subject of adoration ourselves. Could that be the reason why in your area you're living in is why K-pop is getting backlash? Wow great find! This could be one of the reasons. My country is slowly losing its culture because of colonial mentality. We keep engaging in so many foreign things that we dont really know ourselves anymore. So I guess some of the backlash may come from OPM enthusiasts. Cant blame them though. so I understand where the hate is coming from. You've actually researched a lot O_O But back on topic: I can say in general (like the whole world now) that Kpop is accepted now because of the different korean trends (Kdramas, cosmetics, etc ride on Kpop) but Jpop is demonized because it seems to mostly ride on anime? |
Jul 13, 2016 8:57 AM
#198
Calypso said: But back on topic: I can say in general (like the whole world now) that Kpop is accepted now because of the different korean trends (Kdramas, cosmetics, etc ride on Kpop) but Jpop is demonized because it seems to mostly ride on anime? As I said, it wasn't always like that. J-pop was accepted in early 2000's while K-pop was demonized. After 2009/2010, something definitely changed and even to this day no J-pop fans I talked to online can't explain what happened or are baffled when I showed them my evidence of J-pop used to be accepted back in early 2000's. |
Jul 13, 2016 9:11 AM
#199
mdo7 said: Calypso said: But back on topic: I can say in general (like the whole world now) that Kpop is accepted now because of the different korean trends (Kdramas, cosmetics, etc ride on Kpop) but Jpop is demonized because it seems to mostly ride on anime? As I said, it wasn't always like that. J-pop was accepted in early 2000's while K-pop was demonized. After 2009/2010, something definitely changed and even to this day no J-pop fans I talked to online can't explain what happened or are baffled when I showed them my evidence of J-pop used to be accepted back in early 2000's. It's the hallyu i guess. 2009/10-2012 was like the era of Kpop, a lot of groups promoted good or "catchy" songs that era. Maybe Jpop isn't really demonized, its just that Kpop just got more popular than Jpop because of the sudden explosion of boy/girl groups' music? You can say people dont wanna "go back" to Jpop so I'm thinking of a scenario: I am 12 years old interested in anime and spazz over my bishonen and listen to Jpop. I turned 14 and Kpop was becoming more known so I listened and saw cute guys dancing and singing. I realized that it's more fun to spazz over real guys than 2D guys so I continue watching Kpop and have forgotten my interests in Jpop. I can constantly follow a group of guys in twitter, instagram etc. and my friends can do the same because they;re also into cute guys dancing and have social media accounts. TL;DR people who got into Jpop through anime grow old and stop fangirling cartoons thereby also not listening anymore to Jpop? or they just ride the hype train as to whatever's trendy? not saying jpop artists are ugly tho (OOR and SPYAIR are also my baes) |
Jul 13, 2016 9:31 AM
#200
Calypso said: Maybe Jpop isn't really demonized, its just that Kpop just got more popular than Jpop because of the sudden explosion of boy/girl groups' music? I hate to say this, but it seem to be demonized judging from the conversation I had with several J-pop fans I talked to online. You can say people dont wanna "go back" to Jpop so I'm thinking of a scenario: I am 12 years old interested in anime and spazz over my bishonen and listen to Jpop. I turned 14 and Kpop was becoming more known so I listened and saw cute guys dancing and singing. I realized that it's more fun to spazz over real guys than 2D guys so I continue watching Kpop and have forgotten my interests in Jpop. I can constantly follow a group of guys in twitter, instagram etc. and my friends can do the same because they;re also into cute guys dancing and have social media accounts. So how come theses former J-pop fans that become K-pop fans don't just still follow J-pop. I mean I became a K-pop fans in 2013, but I don't forget anime or abandon my anime fandom. To describe J-pop international fandom, I came up with a analogy when I talk to one on Quora: Imagine an anime fan who is a hardcore sub fan and said he’ll never watch dub ever, then suddenly decided to watch anime in dub and insult the Japanese language and say they sound inferior and no longer watch subtitled anime. That's how I describe former J-pop fans that never went back to J-pop after they became K-pop fans. To be honest, that's how I describe J-pop's international fanbases, it seem like they suffer from bipolar disorders or something. You see, that's the mystery about J-pop's international fanbases decline. people who got into Jpop through anime grow old and stop fangirling cartoons thereby also not listening anymore to Jpop? or they just ride the hype train as to whatever's trendy? So it's an odd coincidence that after several K-dramas adaptation of anime/manga like Boys over Flowers, and Itazura Na Kiss which are both hit dramas that made K-pop gain a big international audiences and win many fans of anime/manga around the world, they just drop anime for no reason. Also it's a bit odd that K-pop fans has older fans (as in fans in their 30's) according to these articles: Kpop is my guilty pleasure…and I’m old The Changing Culture Of Fandom - Adult Fans Changing The Landscape Of Idol Fandom So what are the chances these older K-pop fans in their 30's and 40's could be former J-pop fans that were around in 2000's when J-pop used to had a big international fanbases? I mean how could they abandon J-pop like that? That just doesn't make sense. If they're so hardcore loyalty to K-pop, which didn't they show this same hardcore loyalty to J-pop? Could you explain that? |
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