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Feb 1, 2015 6:14 AM
#1

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Heh, a fun episode to watch with the connection between the trio. until the second half.

We also get a bit of onsen for them to relax. Even adventurers needs a break every now and then right? Still, it didn't look like they got a break before some troops decided to interrupt it. Oh well can't be helped but then again, we have our heroes. Doronjo's laugh may seem like the usual 'ha, ha ha,' but even she seems to be taking it hard after what happened. Kinda curious to see where else this show's adventure will take them from here.
Stark700Feb 1, 2015 6:29 AM
Feb 1, 2015 8:17 AM
#2

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So Oda introduced himself as honorable!

The beginning provided a great contrast to when the Yatterman came. Cheering out of fear and intimidation, having to cheer no matter the length and situation :/
35 years of heavy labour just like that, just a split moment can shows its consequences already.

I felt bad for Mitchan as they agreed to betray Dorombo in the light of not having to see her husband to go into labour to only having to witness it a second time. It was nice to see some of the branches of the Yatterman kingdom and just how unchanging they are.
Feb 1, 2015 8:54 AM
#3
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Boy they even put the Meka-no-Moto (mecha matter/tonic) in the story. The younger audience should really watch a couple of the original Yatterman episodes.

We see a first named enemy among the Yatter Kingdom, also a cool dog mecha...
Feb 1, 2015 8:59 AM
#4

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Oda-sama can talk :O And he's got grandiosity issues spitting like that XD

Wow they actually couldn't save the family. This world is messed up indeed. I really wonder what Doronjo and co can do to change it?

And now we see that the Yatterman have generals like Goro too. Makes things interesting I guess. Dat fight with him was BA. Dat animation :O
Feb 1, 2015 9:08 AM
#5
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Nice episode. I didn't feel anything for the family though :/

And i could understand them betraying the group given the situation.
Feb 1, 2015 9:18 AM
#6

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Sucks that the guy had to go despite telling Goro where Doronjo and the others were. I knew that was gonna happen, but it still sucks.
Feb 1, 2015 9:26 AM
#7

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I liked the ep and there was a lot of references to the old Yatterman here too. Like Doronjo's gang trying to rip off money, and we even got a Yatter-wan-like mecha. This series might be really underrated if someone would only go by the first episode.
Feb 1, 2015 9:29 AM
#8
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Did that guy really think he could make a fair deal with someone like General Goro by betraying Doronjo and pals? People of Yatter kingdom may as well be fools.

Tonzra vs. Goro was awesome though. Much better than the mecha battle between the dog and monkey. Our protagonists need better equipment to go up against Yatterman. They really haven't been able to make any progress so far, other than making it to Yatter kingdom.

Average episode. Doronjo reminds me of Hoshimiya Kate from Sekai Seifuku a little.

Feb 1, 2015 9:34 AM
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Shaniyaz said:
Did that guy really think he could make a fair deal with someone like General Goro by betraying Doronjo and pals? People of Yatter kingdom may as well be fools.


At worst (which happened), he will go to Forced Labor. At best, he would get what he wanted.

There was no way to save the couple, really. Even Doronjo had to make herself believe that there was hope by rejecting the opinions of the rest of the group and blindly believe that she can do SOMETHING.
After all, even if they led them out of the Yatter Kingdom, there would be no hope: the soldiers would just go out of the Kingdom, grab him and take him back because there is no force to stand against them.
As a matter of fact, allying with the rebels brings the risk of labor for life or, even worse, the wife would be forced to come with him. Or maybe they would both get executed.
Feb 1, 2015 9:46 AM

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I'm mesmerized... At one side we have a funny, silly, old style battle anime, on the other life drama. I especially love Doronjo character development, she's still an innocent and naive child, but from episode to episode she learns more about brutality of real world. Despite that she still hold her head high.

Also I love this quote:
"A cool woman always laughs no matter what situation she's in!"
Doronjo 2015;

This anime is quite rapidly climbing up to the top of this season.
Feb 1, 2015 11:45 AM

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This is probably one of the best episodes since the first one. It has comedy, but also has some genuinely sad moments, such as when the woman was crying while praising Yatterman. It''s coming together quite nicely. Plus, we have a villain now who has a face and isn't simply an unseen enemy.

Still enjoying this show quite a bit!
Feb 1, 2015 11:45 AM

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Banzai! Banzai! Banzai! I didn't think I'd like this anime as much as I have.

NecroMac said:

Also I love this quote:
"A cool woman always laughs no matter what situation she's in!"
Doronjo 2015;


Me too! That line was great,
Feb 1, 2015 11:51 AM
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It seems we won't always have happy endings. The first part of the episode was very funny and positive, the comedy was great. The fight in the second half was really cool. But man, that ending was harsh. I think Doronbow finally realizes how bad it really is. Hopefully they'll be able to make things right.
Feb 1, 2015 12:49 PM
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Too bad. that they can't saved the family.

The Yatterman have generals too.
Feb 1, 2015 1:01 PM

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the banzai while she was crying was kinda disturbing.

the monkey... haha

http://i.imgur.com/3eWnSaf.png

good episode, cannot wait for the next one
xSanoxFeb 1, 2015 1:05 PM
Feb 1, 2015 1:14 PM
The Komori

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I don't feel bad for the couple at all

Leopard and the gang not only helped them out in regards to getting clothes for their baby but they also risked their lives to save the husband and protect them

And with all of this they selfishly back stabbed them showing how ungrateful they are...Serves them right

The General dude impressed me a lot, I'm glad that we have more antagonists....Still this country is messed up and these Yatterman freaks need to be stopped

Brilliant episode overall
Feb 1, 2015 1:20 PM
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The general guy is voiced by Nobuyuki Hiyama.
Can't be anything but awesome.
Feb 1, 2015 3:33 PM
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Just a note about the "Banzai!" shouts when the husband went off to work for the Yatter capital; the same happened during the World War 2 conscriptions in Japan - grown men and fit male children were lead away (dragged if required, shot if refused) to fight in the army, while all the citizens had to be seen to support it, by shouting "Banzai!" and waving them off as they were forced away.

People that didn't comply with the army, or who weren't shown as willing to go and join the army were often persecuted and segregated by other town's folk, looked on as traitors and cowards. People would stop trading with them, talking to them or even acknowledging them and their children would also be subject to the same prejudices, though they may not have understood why.

I'm just left wondering how dark this show is going to get. Loved the Yatter-wan replacement in Yatter-pug, with the same meta-material bones that let him create mini-bots.

The show's easily in my top 3 of this season.
Feb 1, 2015 4:37 PM

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This episode is slightly trashy and badly drawn at (most) parts, but, damn, do they show totalitarian society well. Deliciously heavy, and without the usual pretentiousness, that many "adult" anime display, at that.
I find the way the general speaks annoying, but he is a truly intimidating foe. Who could think that a man half composed of toy parts with a giant robot dog, that retches flying noses, can be seriously scary.

All in all, the setting is very interesting, and the subversion of the genre works out marvellously. A pity it isn't too popular, but, I guess, it takes a certain type of person to truly enjoy something like this. You should have a couple of children stories you'd like to see deconstructed, be able to symapthise with villains, understand how grotesque works and know a bit about the way totalitarism affects people. I don't want to sound elitist or anything, but I believe it usually comes together in an older, more or less educated viewer.
Feb 1, 2015 5:26 PM
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wait, that monkey who talked in the mecha-monkey ... was that Tomokazu Sugita ? Oo
sounded a lot like him.
STOP SLEEPING ON ODD TAXI

Feb 1, 2015 6:18 PM

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I'm loving this anime so far. Does anyone know if this is going to be a long series, as in more than two cours?
[center]
Feb 1, 2015 6:24 PM
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Dark_Kain said:

We see a first named enemy among the Yatter Kingdom, also a cool dog mecha...


Dog-like mecha... Is it Yatterwan or Yatterbull? Because what Goro gave to it was hotdog.
If you pay attention, at the older series, food for Wan was bones, while for Bull was hotdog.

Dark_Kain said:
The general guy is voiced by Nobuyuki Hiyama.
Can't be anything but awesome.


Seems Hiyama play as bad guys more after Brave series ended.

Also, Goro looks like Berg Katze, while he has a black dog mecha that looks like Friender.
removed-userFeb 1, 2015 6:27 PM
Feb 1, 2015 8:42 PM

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this show keeps getting better and better
Feb 1, 2015 8:50 PM

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I don't understand this show. What exactly is it trying to accomplish by making this story about the Yatterman being evil and the Doronjo being good? It's not really thinking it can just coast on that gimmick throughout the entire runtime, is it? Because this whole role reversal thing has been milked dry by the comic industry before the 90s even ended.

Seriously, if this show is just going to be a straightforward good vs. evil thing with no moral complexity on either side, I'm going to be even more disappointed with the show than I already am.
I Write About Anime (and other stuff) At Standing On My Neck
Feb 1, 2015 10:17 PM

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When the real Yatterman appear he will be called
Feb 1, 2015 11:49 PM
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Flawfinder said:
I don't understand this show. What exactly is it trying to accomplish by making this story about the Yatterman being evil and the Doronjo being good? It's not really thinking it can just coast on that gimmick throughout the entire runtime, is it? Because this whole role reversal thing has been milked dry by the comic industry before the 90s even ended.

Seriously, if this show is just going to be a straightforward good vs. evil thing with no moral complexity on either side, I'm going to be even more disappointed with the show than I already am.

I respectufully disagree.
The show already pointed (and this episode underlined) that Leopard's ideals are naive and that she easily jumps into rebellious antics that are basically a tantrum and obviously damned to failure from the adult characters point of view.

Her rebellion is still important because otherwise no one would be rebelling, but up to this point the show has been more about how her rebellion is childish and painfully ineffective.

banpreiomaster said:
Dark_Kain said:

We see a first named enemy among the Yatter Kingdom, also a cool dog mecha...


Dog-like mecha... Is it Yatterwan or Yatterbull? Because what Goro gave to it was hotdog.
If you pay attention, at the older series, food for Wan was bones, while for Bull was hotdog.

It is called yatterpug, so it is a new mech. (unless the subs failed hard with the name and I didn't noticed it)
Thoug it shares obvious similiarities with yatterbull.
Dark_KainFeb 1, 2015 11:57 PM
Feb 2, 2015 1:20 AM

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Hmm, well that was fun. However I have to admit the show doesn't exactly excel at anything.

When it wants to be funny and fun, it's funny and fun and when it wants to be dramatic, it's okay at that too but it's not particularly amazing at either of them and it just comes off as decent overall.

They are going a bit overboard with the totalitarian, controlled society stuff because they are making all people of power out to be 1-note assholes with no redeeming qualities or even demented justification for what they are doing. It comes off as a bit shallow and just makes the whole role-reversal aspect rather pointless.

What's the point of switching the roles of the villains to heroes if the good guys are just 1-dimensional bad guys now? It doesn't contrast well with Leopard's gang who seem to always be good guys and the only thing that stops them from being 1-dimensional is their naivety leading them to make mistakes(Which I do like). I need to see a bit more I guess.

I also was a bit disturbed by the fact that they were trying to peep on... Leopard...? She's 9 guys.

I also don't really get what this series is about... Is it about growing up and realizing the things you once thought were sweet and innocent are actually strange, harsh and cruel? I'd say that's pretty interesting but it doesn't really do much with it. At least, not in any subtle way. It's like it shows you a cute puppy and then goes, "REMEMBER HOW PUPPIES WERE CUTE? WELL NOW THEY JUST SMASHED A CAT'S HEAD WITH A ROCK! HAHAHA!". That's how it comes off to me and despite it's message being mature, it's portrayed in a fairly childish way. Remember your memories of your favorite comic book heroes? Well they just kidnapped a pregnant woman's husband and forced him into hard labor for 35 years! HAHAHA! I didn't know anything about the guy who was taken away and I barely knew the pregnant lady so it's hard to care when I see them split apart. Plus everything was so happy and silly in the beginning(and still was later on) so it was hard to take anything seriously.

I do like Leopard's character development. Even if it's a tad heavy handed. The characters are fun to watch and the villains are enjoyably goofy even if they are supposed to be disturbing. The fight choreography was fairly basic but still well done even if the art overall was fairly choppy. The pacing this week was better than the last 3 episodes too. The tone shifted from goofy to dark too fast again though so I didn't really get any emotional impact from the bad things that happened.
Feb 2, 2015 3:06 AM
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Keten said:

I also was a bit disturbed by the fact that they were trying to peep on... Leopard...? She's 9 guys.

It doesn't make this much better but they were actually peeping on Alouette.
Feb 2, 2015 3:18 AM

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Dark_Kain said:
Keten said:

I also was a bit disturbed by the fact that they were trying to peep on... Leopard...? She's 9 guys.

It doesn't make this much better but they were actually peeping on Alouette.


I guess fair is fair. I am pretty sure she is young too though. lol
Feb 2, 2015 4:26 AM
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Keten said:
Dark_Kain said:

It doesn't make this much better but they were actually peeping on Alouette.


I guess fair is fair. I am pretty sure she is young too though. lol

I'm 90% sure that she is 13. As I said it isn't much better.

About your doubts on the series direction... I think i could explain it with ease.
But only by delving in heavy spoilers if I'm correct. (And possibly heavy spoilers even if i'm wrong)
Feb 2, 2015 4:39 AM

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Dark_Kain said:
About your doubts on the series direction... I think i could explain it with ease.
But only by delving in heavy spoilers if I'm correct. (And possibly heavy spoilers even if i'm wrong)


Is it really a spoiler if you aren't even sure it's going to happen? Isn't that more so theorizing? I'm okay with theories but not spoilers.
Feb 2, 2015 4:56 AM

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Dark_Kain said:
Flawfinder said:
I don't understand this show. What exactly is it trying to accomplish by making this story about the Yatterman being evil and the Doronjo being good? It's not really thinking it can just coast on that gimmick throughout the entire runtime, is it? Because this whole role reversal thing has been milked dry by the comic industry before the 90s even ended.

Seriously, if this show is just going to be a straightforward good vs. evil thing with no moral complexity on either side, I'm going to be even more disappointed with the show than I already am.

I respectufully disagree.
The show already pointed (and this episode underlined) that Leopard's ideals are naive and that she easily jumps into rebellious antics that are basically a tantrum and obviously damned to failure from the adult characters point of view.

Her rebellion is still important because otherwise no one would be rebelling, but up to this point the show has been more about how her rebellion is childish and painfully ineffective.


Oh great. It's a kiddie version of Now and Then, Here and There. Just what I always wanted. *Sigh*
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Feb 2, 2015 5:13 AM

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This show is getting more & more bizarre with its mix between the serious/dark tone & the over the top comedy. Why in the world they thought the mix between them would be the best thing ever? I just . . . They need to learn a thing or two from Noragami about how to mix between dark tone & comedy, because this anime is just the most jarring thing I have ever watched.
I like anime.
Feb 2, 2015 5:15 AM
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This is my favourite anime of the season. God, this is amazing, I hope a good and extremely strong forehead flick as an ending.
Feb 2, 2015 7:07 AM
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Dark_Kain said:
Keten said:


I guess fair is fair. I am pretty sure she is young too though. lol

I'm 90% sure that she is 13. As I said it isn't much better.

About your doubts on the series direction... I think i could explain it with ease.
But only by delving in heavy spoilers if I'm correct. (And possibly heavy spoilers even if i'm wrong)

Alouette's 17.
Feb 2, 2015 7:12 AM

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Keten said:
Hmm, well that was fun. However I have to admit the show doesn't exactly excel at anything.

They are going a bit overboard with the totalitarian, controlled society stuff because they are making all people of power out to be 1-note assholes with no redeeming qualities or even demented justification for what they are doing. It comes off as a bit shallow and just makes the whole role-reversal aspect rather pointless.


We've seen only one person of authority though. The others were lowly goons. Only now the more powerful forces start to notice the team, and it's pretty logical that the first one is someone who is a free-moving agent bent on hunting. It remains to be seen what the others will be, if there are any. Frankly though I am not sure that many villains will show complexity - their world seems to be past that stage.

I think that the point is in the subversion. They show well how a heroic tale and once good symbols become basis of oppression and totalitarianism. That's even realistic in a way.
Thankfully in this episode they also showed that Doronjo's rebellion is desperate and (almost) hopeless.
Since they are not blazing through the country, destroying enemies left and right, I, frankly, don't see the problem.

And yeah, they planned to peep on Alouette (she is really big busted, so I kind of can understand it). They had seen Doronjo naked many times before.

Though I agree that the pacing is choppy and the animation wasn't too good this time.
Feb 2, 2015 7:13 AM
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Alouette's 17.


Nice to know: is there some official profile somewhere?
Feb 2, 2015 7:23 AM
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Dark_Kain said:
Alouette's 17.


Nice to know: is there some official profile somewhere?

Yeah, the official site. As this is an original work, I expect a book containing more info to get released sometime in the future...they always do, don't they?
4shikiFeb 2, 2015 7:29 AM
Feb 2, 2015 8:59 AM

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deadoptimist said:

We've seen only one person of authority though. The others were lowly goons. Only now the more powerful forces start to notice the team, and it's pretty logical that the first one is someone who is a free-moving agent bent on hunting. It remains to be seen what the others will be, if there are any. Frankly though I am not sure that many villains will show complexity - their world seems to be past that stage.

I think that the point is in the subversion. They show well how a heroic tale and once good symbols become basis of oppression and totalitarianism. That's even realistic in a way.
Thankfully in this episode they also showed that Doronjo's rebellion is desperate and (almost) hopeless.
Since they are not blazing through the country, destroying enemies left and right, I, frankly, don't see the problem.

And yeah, they planned to peep on Alouette (she is really big busted, so I kind of can understand it). They had seen Doronjo naked many times before.

Though I agree that the pacing is choppy and the animation wasn't too good this time.


Hmm... It's only going to be 12 episodes so yeah, I doubt the villains will be that complex considering 4 episodes are already done.

Also, okay, symbols of good being used later as a basis for oppression and totalitarianism. That is more or less the premise of the theme. My question is what are they doing with it? Pretty much nothing so far. All they've done so far is portray that at some point, the Utopia turned into a Totalitarian place filled with psycho-bots that go around forcing people into hard labor and will kill anyone who resists their ways of life. The rest of it is a very basic action adventure. The pacing is erratic and the tone shifts make it difficult to get engaged properly when serious stuff starts to happen, especially when we have stuff like giant dog-bots eating hog dogs and spitting out nose-bots.

If the show wanted to really be interesting with it's themes, it would go into what exactly turns a Utopia into a Totalitarian government. It hasn't done that yet. It would portray the reasons as to why people go along with a Totalitarian government. It hasn't done that yet or what they did portray so far is that the robots and single bad guy we met are 0-1 dimensional evil.

Nothing in the series yet is praiseworthy is what I am saying. The characters are fun and I do really like that they aren't just OP superheroes but most of the draw of this series is our wanting the answers as to why the Utopia turned into such a crappy place. Everything leading up to that so far has been pretty basic action adventure with the themes being explored in rather shallow and silly ways. I'd like to see more of the world before I start talking about the interesting side of the show, so far I am not all that impressed. It's fun yes and has some enjoyable characters but I don't really see it as a deep anime yet.
Feb 2, 2015 9:37 AM
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Flawfinder said:
That's like having a gritty Pokemon reboot where Team Rocket was oppressed by self-serious Pikachu and his army of Ash robots.


That would be awesome. I have fun just imagining it.
Feb 2, 2015 9:50 AM

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Keten said:


I guess, I can see your point, though I don't share the opinion. I like the feel of discarded playground, where toy robot dogs hunt people. In my opinion, it ties nicely the adult horror and the scary nature of children's games, the manifistation of human psyche. I am not sure that it is controlled, but the contrast between fun, right out of the kids shows, and the stuff for older audience creates a truly disturbing, but addictive atmosphere. The fact that the writer is ok also helps. I mean, half of t he shows have some totalitarian people as enemies, but not that many demostrate how such societies work on low level.

It's not that I am so sure in this show, that I want to defend it or wish to argue, but I really don't understand, why anybody would want a sob story for the killing bastard general. It would be not terribly relevant for their current situation and sadistic bastards do sadly exist and become especially visible in bad times.
I hope that they'll show why it has become like this, but I am sure it won't be an entirely social problem, and it's ok, since in real life, as it seems to me, the reason is usually the mundane thirst for power. And anime is not the best medium to study the finer points of the concsiousness of a would-be dictator or a secret police officer. Considering that the bad guys here are like KGB in 1937, but also inhuman, I am not sure, what good sides to expect from them. Also it seems to me that it is a subversed fairytale, but still a fairytale, since it is the normal state of their world, or should be, and Doronjo returns it to them.

Well, it's not that important, but I really wouldn't like to see heavy social criticism forced on this. For me this episode had too much of it already.
deadoptimistFeb 2, 2015 9:54 AM
Feb 2, 2015 9:53 AM

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Kolnikov said:
Flawfinder said:
That's like having a gritty Pokemon reboot where Team Rocket was oppressed by self-serious Pikachu and his army of Ash robots.


That would be awesome. I have fun just imagining it.


Oh, yeah, I've been imagining the same situation in the Pockemon world for a while now. It would be awesome indeed. We'd have a cute purple haired kid with kitten companion as protags and mad pockemon trainers hunting people for meat with packs of huge carnivorous pikchus.
Feb 2, 2015 10:21 AM

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deadoptimist said:

I guess, I can see your point, though I don't share the opinion. I like the feel of discarded playground, where toy robot dogs hunt people. In my opinion, it ties nicely the adult horror and the scary nature of children's games, the manifistation of human psyche. I am not sure that it is controlled, but the contrast between fun, right out of the kids shows, and the stuff for older audience creates a truly disturbing, but addictive atmosphere. The fact that the writer is ok also helps. I mean, half of t he shows have some totalitarian people as enemies, but not that many demostrate how such societies work on low level.

It's not that I am so sure in this show, that I want to defend it or wish to argue, but I really don't understand, why anybody would want a sob story for the killing bastard general. It would be not terribly relevant for their current situation and sadistic bastards do sadly exist and become especially visible in bad times.
I hope that they'll show why it has become like this, but I am sure it won't be an entirely social problem, and it's ok, since in real life, as it seems to me, the reason is usually the mundane thirst for power. And anime is not the best medium to study the finer points of the concsiousness of a would-be dictator or a secret police officer. Considering that the bad guys here are like KGB in 1937, but also inhuman, I am not sure, what good sides to expect from them. Also it seems to me that it is a subversed fairytale, but still a fairytale, since it is the normal state of their world, or should be, and Doronjo returns it to them.

Well, it's not that important, but I really wouldn't like to see heavy social criticism forced on this. For me this episode had too much of it already.


Even pure evil characters need characterization to be considered complex or even good. Pure evil people don't really exist at all as much as we like to think they do, everyone has a reason for behaving how they do, even the scum of humanity and I'm not just talking about a thirst for power, it ends up that way sometimes yes but there's usually a reason for that thirst for power in the first place.

Also, I agree that it has some sort of atmosphere to it but I am never really creep'd out by it personally since some things are just too obviously silly and not drawn in any sort of ways that imply creepy(For example, the Yatterman-bots in the OP look like strange zombie creatures with freaky faces but in the actual series they are just silly looking robots). It does appear as though it's inside the head of a little kid or something which as I said before, is sort of like they are exploring the idea of what we once thought was good and innocent are actually cruel and disturbing. Again though, it doesn't really explore it much as a theme and doesn't use much subtlety.

Still, the series could pick up. I just don't want to praise it yet when I don't really think it's done anything yet worthy of praise. It's done enough that I think it's decent so far and it's enjoyable to watch but that's about it.
Feb 2, 2015 10:23 AM

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deadoptimist said:
Kolnikov said:


That would be awesome. I have fun just imagining it.


Oh, yeah, I've been imagining the same situation in the Pockemon world for a while now. It would be awesome indeed. We'd have a cute purple haired kid with kitten companion as protags and mad pockemon trainers hunting people for meat with packs of huge carnivorous pikchus.


Well I deleted that post because I decided "why bother", but I think in practice, a gritty Pokemon reboot would be ridiculous.

As for your other points, we differ in very key ways. For one, I don't think the contrast between kiddy humor and adult atmosphere is working. Rather than make it more haunting, it makes it harder to take seriously. It's not blended in nearly as well as something like Gurren Lagann.

Second, you seem to think that this episode had heavy social criticism. I don't. Here's something you said earlier:

deadoptimist said:

"I think that the point is in the subversion. They show well how a heroic tale and once good symbols become basis of oppression and totalitarianism. That's even realistic in a way.
Thankfully in this episode they also showed that Doronjo's rebellion is desperate and (almost) hopeless.
Since they are not blazing through the country, destroying enemies left and right, I, frankly, don't see the problem.


My problem is that all of these points you praise are very basic themes in the action adventure genre, the superhero genre, and other sorts of genres. It's pretty damn expected that heroes can't save everyone so I don't see why that should be praise. The subversion of heroic beliefs is a a pretty damn cliched premise by itself (it was rampant during the comic industry in the 90s alone, and anime itself has done its fair share of milking that cow as well) and is only good when you use it for something new.

I don't see what's new about the way this show is utilizing these familiar elements, and if it's just aiming to be mindless fun, then why are you making this show so "grim" in the first place?

Edit: As Keten said, the idea of tearing down a child's view of the world "could" be interesting. The problem is the show isn't telling me that story in a way that makes me care. I don't mind the lack of subtlety, but it's how repetitive the show is in saying "Yatterman are actually not heroes" that gets to me. All the antagonists have been very 1-D so far, and if they're not creative, how am I supposed to believe that the overall message the show is trying to convey is creative?
FlawfinderFeb 2, 2015 10:34 AM
I Write About Anime (and other stuff) At Standing On My Neck
Feb 2, 2015 12:14 PM

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Jul 2014
2556
Er, as I've said before, I don't plan on calling this show a masterpiece. But I think that I can't agree with some points of the criticism.

One thing both of you (Keten and Flawfinder) mention is that the antagonists are one-dimensional. I can't really agree that it's time to address it, simply since we haven't seen many of them. There were a ton of cloned or robot goons - and these don't get backstories, and exactly one evil hunter, who has been present for half of an episode.
Secondly, I think that if a person has gone over the edge and kills people, and the said person tries to kill heroes because of his general malice, we can very well in some cases skip the psychological aspect, since it is irrelevant. The heroes, whose pov we are following won't know his backstory, nor will it affect anything.

Keten said:
Also, I agree that it has some sort of atmosphere to it but I am never really creep'd out by it personally since some things are just too obviously silly and not drawn in any sort of ways that imply creepy(For example, the Yatterman-bots in the OP look like strange zombie creatures with freaky faces but in the actual series they are just silly looking robots). ... Again though, it doesn't really explore it much as a theme and doesn't use much subtlety.

They go back to it sometimes. When the yattermen bots were interrogating Galina they drew their eyes in creepy manner - with pallid flesh, lenses and shining. I was talking about aesthetics of it though, not theme. (If you remember, we've already had a conversation about the meaning of visuals.)
Subtlety is a big word for such a show, but I think they do fine in some scenes. I like the wall with a stamp instead of sky, people eatig leaves even in Yatter kingdom, wild animals that live their own lives even in all this madness, the snow that started to fall when they reached the hell - stuff like that.

Oh, and they definitely tried to play with the kid perception as the main pov, but I am not sure they manage.

Keten said:
I just don't want to praise it yet when I don't really think it's done anything yet worthy of praise. It's done enough that I think it's decent so far and it's enjoyable to watch but that's about it.

That's a lot now. There is so much unwatchable stuff. At least it is visually interesting and not too pretentious.

Flawfinder said:
My problem is that all of these points you praise are very basic themes in the action adventure genre, the superhero genre, and other sorts of genres. It's pretty damn expected that heroes can't save everyone so I don't see why that should be praise. The subversion of heroic beliefs is a a pretty damn cliched premise by itself (it was rampant during the comic industry in the 90s alone, and anime itself has done its fair share of milking that cow as well) and is only good when you use it for something new.

I definitely can't say that we haven't seen this before, but I like how they do it. I think that's the main difference, and it's highly subjective, so our discussion won't get anywhere. It's just that I feel that in more traditional story the heroes would've already started to rally the discontent under their flag and we would've seen the main dictator laughing maniacally a couple of times. But here it is mostly grim life still going on and good people selling their compassion. When watching about fictional totalitarian societies, you often can't understand how anyone still lives there, but people do live in totalitarian countries and even have some fun. And here we see how these small lives go, the show functions on their level.
Feb 2, 2015 12:52 PM

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613
deadoptimist said:

One thing both of you (Keten and Flawfinder) mention is that the antagonists are one-dimensional. I can't really agree that it's time to address it, simply since we haven't seen many of them. There were a ton of cloned or robot goons - and these don't get backstories, and exactly one evil hunter, who has been present for half of an episode.
Secondly, I think that if a person has gone over the edge and kills people, and the said person tries to kill heroes because of his general malice, we can very well in some cases skip the psychological aspect, since it is irrelevant. The heroes, whose pov we are following won't know his backstory, nor will it affect anything.


I can agree that it's too soon to write off the villains as 1-dimensional. I was just saying that so far they haven't given me any reason to think this show is "interesting" or anything. Also, I appreciate it when a series not only fleshes out the good guys but also the bad guys. I don't care how evil they are, I want to know more about them otherwise I feel the conflict is too simple and shallow. It's especially bad when a series wants me to take it seriously, though this series only has a serious tone half the time. A good villain is a villain that is enjoyable even if they do despicable things. As you said though and I agree, it IS too soon to write them off and you are right that there really haven't been that many villains yet so I was jumping the gun a bit on that criticism, sorry.

deadoptimist said:

They go back to it sometimes. When the yattermen bots were interrogating Galina they drew their eyes in creepy manner - with pallid flesh, lenses and shining. I was talking about aesthetics of it though, not theme. (If you remember, we've already had a conversation about the meaning of visuals.)
Subtlety is a big word for such a show, but I think they do fine in some scenes. I like the wall with a stamp instead of sky, people eatig leaves even in Yatter kingdom, wild animals that live their own lives even in all this madness, the snow that started to fall when they reached the hell - stuff like that.

Oh, and they definitely tried to play with the kid perception as the main pov, but I am not sure they manage.


I'd like to see them play with the idea more. They do a good job occasionally but when they mix it in with the silly slapstick and stuff, at least to me, it loses some of it's effect. I get that it's trying to balance itself out by being more charming and to an extent it succeeds at that but I feel like it's trying too hard to mix the tones to the point where it screws up both of them to some extent, they don't go far enough with one or the other because they are afraid if they do, the other side will be effected harshly(as though it is trying too hard to appeal to the fans of the original which was extremely goofy). When trying to balance tones, a series has to know what it wants to be and even then the writer has to be exceptionally good to balance them correctly. Going from light to dark to light to dark is very difficult to do without it feeling messy. It also doesn't help when the pacing is a bit all over the place.

I do think that using an abundance of silly and cute stuff can appear creepy but it all depends on cinematography at that point, using unsettling angles, creepy visual effects, interesting settings, stuff like that. Unfortunately I don't think the series really stands out in the art department, at least for the most part. Everything looks fairly basic with the exception of the occasionally deadish looking areas and some of the robot designs which I like more for their sillyness and not for their creepiness. I feel like the series does it's comedy far better than it's drama, which is why it's hard for me to view it as anything more than a silly action adventure with super heroes. Maybe if it took it's time more and fleshed out the situations better. It still has time to correct this but so far I am not impressed by it.

deadoptimist said:

That's a lot now. There is so much unwatchable stuff. At least it is visually interesting and not too pretentious.


I very much agree. Is why I am watching it. Even if I think it hasn't done anything particularly "interesting", it's still fun and charming in it's own way. :)
Feb 2, 2015 3:39 PM

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Apr 2012
1409
Dark_Kain said:
The general guy is voiced by Nobuyuki Hiyama.
Can't be anything but awesome.


I knew it, that voice sounded familiar!
Hope we see more of him.
Tonzra VS Goro totally awesome.
"Fortress Maximus has come himself. Okay! Then I shall get Fortress Maximus to fight me, huh huh huh!"

Feb 2, 2015 5:14 PM
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Feb 2014
88
3/5, not sure why i havent dropped it yet
Feb 2, 2015 9:52 PM
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Sep 2014
279
Definitely, this anime is the best of this season. We saw it coming that they would not save after the betrayal, however, was sad
Feb 3, 2015 1:44 AM

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Mar 2009
8123
Strong episode. And the tone was actually pitch-perfect this time around. I also liked how this episode didn't have a happy ending. The couple was screwed either way. A shame they sold out the gang, but I can understand why they did it. Some fluid animation in this episode too.

So far, this is one of my favorite shows of the season.
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