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Poll: Death Parade Episode 4 Discussion


Jan 30, 2015 8:06 PM

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willierocks said:


http://youtu.be/QnTGplXv8Gw?t=19m12s


Notice no horns


That's true. Whoa. I didn't know they could do that. I mean I know they're judging, but I didn't get they could sent both people to hell/both to heaven. Thank you.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:06 PM

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I tend to believe that in final episodes a solid individual will somehow disrupt the system.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:08 PM

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deadoptimist said:

I dunno, maybe because I know a bit about depression from personal experience, I find it difficult to empathise with him. Maybe that's becasue of the writing - they showed his decision as spontaneous and his situation as pretty good.
That's another shortcoming of this anime - the lack of context.


I see your point.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:10 PM

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Great episode as always
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:10 PM

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Oddyeus said:
Vellamo said:


I was talking about the other woman from the first episode. :)

You're wrong about that, it explicitly stated that she DID cheat.


Well I don't think it did, she was obviously acting to save her husband who was extremely jealous and the new employee also expressed that later on.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:16 PM
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This anime never ceases to amaze me. I am really happy I picked this show up. Just now, I watched Death Billiards, and I found that this episode was extremely similar to it. Still, great episode and great movie. Looking forward to new characters to be introduced~

(Ugh I wish this anime would be more than 12 episodes ;o; It's too good! Madhouse stop making amazing anime xD)
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:20 PM

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I wasn't sure how I felt about this episode initially, but by the end, I was in tears again. I really like how this anime is capable of creating truly emotional stories in the span of 20 minutes. Great job.

I was slightly concerned that they didn't seem to really be advancing the overall plot in terms of Quindecim and the other characters in it, but it looks like next week's episode will get to it, so I'm content and very excited for then!
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:34 PM

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deadoptimist said:
I think that the beauty of the designs and animation in this show is seriously wasted on showing people that are in indecently broken state.

The conflict between a wolfmother and a closed-off child could've been good, but here their situations are of such a great difference in weight, that it's hard to compare, and they didn't really communicate enough to cover for it. I mean, she lived a low life, had several unhappy marriages and fought to raise five childeren. No wonder she is wild, though it is ugly. His story wasn't explained in details. His family collapsed, but he got a step-mother, who cared about him. And I don't think that we've been shown, why he commited suicide. Anyway, he seems to have had better chances in life. He, probably, was a better person, but, on the other hand, sporadic suicide is lame and wasteful.
And in the end the series chooses to give its judgement. More and more I think that it would be better to not show the outcome.

Also, Decim seems to have doubts. I hope that they mean it as a metaphor for human suffering or something, because I can't say that as of now I am terribly interested in learning the shortcomings of a completely fictional judgement system.


Well fucking said.

The women did the best she could to both live and happy life, and raise five children on her own.

A woman, whose, suffered thru multiple abusive relationships still managed to find the drive to continue living, be successful, and raise her children alone. Yes, perhaps she, after being treated like a worthless piece of shit for much of her life, became obsessed with making something of herself, and probably neglected the true feelings of her children. Her slapping her assistant looked like a defense mechanism: she saw her assistant failing as an obstacle to her now successful life. It wasn't right, it's very likely that she didn't treat her assistant very well, but that doesn't excuse said assistant murdering her as she was calling to check on her children.

This woman was physically and mentally abused for years, but she didn't give up, like her assistant, or this otaku/neet.

Yosuke WASTED his life, and neglected a father, and step-mother, who loved him and provided him with everything he wanted to enable his selfish desires. He didn't have to struggle for what he wanted.

Also, this game was presented as a game for their lives.....but why would a person, who didn't care about whether he lived, or died, fight as hard as he could to live? This woman had a HUGE chip on her shoulder, and five kids to raise.

I wanted her to reincarnated, so that maybe she could get a second chance at a happy life. Why give it to the guy who just sat there and gave his up, when he had all the support he needed?
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:35 PM

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MaahHeim said:
willierocks said:


http://youtu.be/QnTGplXv8Gw?t=19m12s


Notice no horns


That's true. Whoa. I didn't know they could do that. I mean I know they're judging, but I didn't get they could sent both people to hell/both to heaven. Thank you.


No problem! They never said explicitly who goes where (like even if they win, that doesn't matter) and if both could go to the same place. Of course if the people figured that out it wouldn't make a good show.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:38 PM

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Brynhildr said:
konatachan80 said:
Based on what was shown, the meaning of "those" in that context do seem closer to
how she's treated them (and just about everyone else) so far.
In other words, the kids isn't really important, but what they can do/provide for her is.

Btw, his eye seemed to react to that sentence.


Still not sure. I'm sorry, I seem stubborn on this point and am not able to change idea so far. Also the complete quote was: *I'll do anything* - *Send me back to those children.*

http://i.imgur.com/WwulMya.png

I dunno why I seem to interpret this as the desperate attempt of a mother to get back to her childrem. :/

Though, there's a term for her *wolfmother* [ don't know if it's correct in english ], which kinda explains her extreme attitude, both when she slap her manager and when she's on the verge of killing the guy [ without justifying it, nonetheless ]


She said "my children" earlier...

http://i.imgur.com/Z0oFa6e.png
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:40 PM

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I won't go deep into the discussion itself, but just a note to the people arguing about the "those children"/"my children" expression:

- She did say at the end "ano ko tachi", which is lit. "those children", but in Japanese it's not unusual to use that expression even for someone you have a deep bond with (for example, saying "ano ko"/lit."that girl" when referring to a girlfriend, best friend or even a daughter)

- Before, when she mentions that she has her children... she originally said literally "I have children." Not "my children", but "I have children".

- When she says "happy together with my children", she actually uses the same expression as in the end: "ano ko tachi" (lit. "those children").

The translator just chose to word it differently in each case, because it really doesn't make all that much difference, but since it seems like the exact phrase she used matters to your discussion, I thought I'd help clarify that.
Not sure if changes anything.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:43 PM

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Ehllychan said:
I won't go deep into the discussion itself, but just a note to the people arguing about the "those children"/"my children" expression:

- She did say at the end "ano ko tachi", which is lit. "those children", but in Japanese it's not unusual to use that expression even for someone you have a deep bond with (for example, saying "ano ko"/lit."that girl" when referring to a girlfriend, best friend or even a daughter)

- Before, when she mentions that she has her children... she originally said literally "I have children." Not "my children", but "I have children".

- When she says "happy together with my children", she actually uses the same expression as in the end: "ano ko tachi" (lit. "those children").

The translator just chose to word it differently in each case, because it really doesn't make all that much difference, but since it seems like the exact phrase she used matters to your discussion, I thought I'd help clarify that.
Not sure if changes anything.


It solidifies that she did care about her children, and that what she did, she did it for them; even if she did end up neglecting their feelings in the end.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:45 PM

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Makaze_no_Moujuu said:
deadoptimist said:
I think that the beauty of the designs and animation in this show is seriously wasted on showing people that are in indecently broken state.

The conflict between a wolfmother and a closed-off child could've been good, but here their situations are of such a great difference in weight, that it's hard to compare, and they didn't really communicate enough to cover for it. I mean, she lived a low life, had several unhappy marriages and fought to raise five childeren. No wonder she is wild, though it is ugly. His story wasn't explained in details. His family collapsed, but he got a step-mother, who cared about him. And I don't think that we've been shown, why he commited suicide. Anyway, he seems to have had better chances in life. He, probably, was a better person, but, on the other hand, sporadic suicide is lame and wasteful.
And in the end the series chooses to give its judgement. More and more I think that it would be better to not show the outcome.

Also, Decim seems to have doubts. I hope that they mean it as a metaphor for human suffering or something, because I can't say that as of now I am terribly interested in learning the shortcomings of a completely fictional judgement system.


Well fucking said.

The women did the best she could to both live and happy life, and raise five children on her own.

A woman, whose, suffered thru multiple abusive relationships still managed to find the drive to continue living, be successful, and raise her children alone. Yes, perhaps she, after being treated like a worthless piece of shit for much of her life, became obsessed with making something of herself, and probably neglected the true feelings of her children. Her slapping her assistant looked like a defense mechanism: she saw her assistant failing as an obstacle to her now successful life. It wasn't right, it's very likely that she didn't treat her assistant very well, but that doesn't excuse said assistant murdering her as she was calling to check on her children.

This woman was physically and mentally abused for years, but she didn't give up, like her assistant, or this otaku/neet.

Yosuke WASTED his life, and neglected a father, and step-mother, who loved him and provided him with everything he wanted to enable his selfish desires. He didn't have to struggle for what he wanted.

Also, this game was presented as a game for their lives.....but why would a person, who didn't care about whether he lived, or died, fight as hard as he could to live? This woman had a HUGE chip on her shoulder, and five kids to raise.

I wanted her to reincarnated, so that maybe she could get a second chance at a happy life. Why give it to the guy who just sat there and gave his up, when he had all the support he needed?


He was scared by his biological mother. Depression is a serious illness. Trapped in a mental hell doesn't sound fun to me. He needed treatment (therapy/meds). While the woman didn't ask for the first abusive relationship, her actions kept leading her to abusive relationships. Yosuke didn't ask for depression, but his actions were less consequential than hers. He just stayed depressed and didn't try to use anyone. Yosuke had something called remorse. If you're having suicidal ideations, usually you are glad you don't go through with them, because you have better days. But on the bad days those thoughts are there and you forget about the better parts of life. I don't think anyone that commits suicide would feel glad they did it, they'd be remorseful.... its a one time thing that can't be reversed.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:47 PM

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Ehllychan said:
I won't go deep into the discussion itself, but just a note to the people arguing about the "those children"/"my children" expression:

- She did say at the end "ano ko tachi", which is lit. "those children", but in Japanese it's not unusual to use that expression even for someone you have a deep bond with (for example, saying "ano ko"/lit."that girl" when referring to a girlfriend, best friend or even a daughter)

- Before, when she mentions that she has her children... she originally said literally "I have children." Not "my children", but "I have children".

- When she says "happy together with my children", she actually uses the same expression as in the end: "ano ko tachi" (lit. "those children").

The translator just chose to word it differently in each case, because it really doesn't make all that much difference, but since it seems like the exact phrase she used matters to your discussion, I thought I'd help clarify that.
Not sure if changes anything.



Ah thank you, I thought it might be a cultural/language type thing. She still used them, but at least that makes her last few moments better in my eyes.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:49 PM

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Makaze_no_Moujuu said:
deadoptimist said:
I think that the beauty of the designs and animation in this show is seriously wasted on showing people that are in indecently broken state.

The conflict between a wolfmother and a closed-off child could've been good, but here their situations are of such a great difference in weight, that it's hard to compare, and they didn't really communicate enough to cover for it. I mean, she lived a low life, had several unhappy marriages and fought to raise five childeren. No wonder she is wild, though it is ugly. His story wasn't explained in details. His family collapsed, but he got a step-mother, who cared about him. And I don't think that we've been shown, why he commited suicide. Anyway, he seems to have had better chances in life. He, probably, was a better person, but, on the other hand, sporadic suicide is lame and wasteful.
And in the end the series chooses to give its judgement. More and more I think that it would be better to not show the outcome.

Also, Decim seems to have doubts. I hope that they mean it as a metaphor for human suffering or something, because I can't say that as of now I am terribly interested in learning the shortcomings of a completely fictional judgement system.


Well fucking said.

The women did the best she could to both live and happy life, and raise five children on her own.

A woman, whose, suffered thru multiple abusive relationships still managed to find the drive to continue living, be successful, and raise her children alone. Yes, perhaps she, after being treated like a worthless piece of shit for much of her life, became obsessed with making something of herself, and probably neglected the true feelings of her children. Her slapping her assistant looked like a defense mechanism: she saw her assistant failing as an obstacle to her now successful life. It wasn't right, it's very likely that she didn't treat her assistant very well, but that doesn't excuse said assistant murdering her as she was calling to check on her children.

This woman was physically and mentally abused for years, but she didn't give up, like her assistant, or this otaku/neet.

Yosuke WASTED his life, and neglected a father, and step-mother, who loved him and provided him with everything he wanted to enable his selfish desires. He didn't have to struggle for what he wanted.

Also, this game was presented as a game for their lives.....but why would a person, who didn't care about whether he lived, or died, fight as hard as he could to live? This woman had a HUGE chip on her shoulder, and five kids to raise.

I wanted her to reincarnated, so that maybe she could get a second chance at a happy life. Why give it to the guy who just sat there and gave his up, when he had all the support he needed?


Utterly ridiculous to say she deserved to be reincarnated.

All you have done in this post is paint this rosy picture of a woman who is a sociopath and an attempted murder as a victim.

You even go as far as saying her slapping her assistant was what did call it a 'defense mechanism"? So you even have accuses for her slapping down the assistant. The assistant killed her because she was being abused by her employer for what I am assuming is for a while. She is being abused by the person you are victimizing and yet you wonder why the assistant snapped and killed her? Kinda the same reason how Misaki snapped and tried to kill Misaki.

The hypocrisy is hilarious.
Modified by Eylandos, Jan 30, 2015 8:58 PM
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Jan 30, 2015 8:57 PM

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bitch thinks shes important or something.
strange... no part of the game was connected to their body parts this time.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:02 PM

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willierocks said:


He was scared by his biological mother. Depression is a serious illness. Trapped in a mental hell doesn't sound fun to me. He needed treatment (therapy/meds). While the woman didn't ask for the first abusive relationship, her actions kept leading her to abusive relationships. Yosuke didn't ask for depression, but his actions were less consequential than hers. He just stayed depressed and didn't try to use anyone. Yosuke had something called remorse. If you're having suicidal ideations, usually you are glad you don't go through with them, because you have better days. But on the bad days those thoughts are there and you forget about the better parts of life. I don't think anyone that commits suicide would feel glad they did it, they'd be remorseful.... its a one time thing that can't be reversed.


He remorse, but so did she for doing what she did to him.

Still, she fought to provide a good life for her kids.

I get it, "life isn't fair", but it this case it REALLY wasn't fair. The game is presented as a trial of life, or death. Decim did something he didn't do before: HE FORCED THE COMPETITOR'S DARK-SIDE OUT. It's already a given that human instinct is to survive, but as we could see, Masiko was the only one that had anything to live for, or wanted to live period. Just look at the reactions when their joysticks "broke": Yosuke barely reacted, while Masiko acted like her life was on the line. Given the way the lived their lives, it was obvious from the jump that she would be the one to show her worst side, as she lived a life where she's been slapped back to rock bottom so much, and had just managed to live a life worth living.

I get that he was depressed, but that doesn't negate the fact that she lived the harder life, and had more reason to be depressed, yet she did what she could to make it better; even if she made some bad decisions on the way. She was the stronger person, she was the one with the will to live.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:02 PM

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When you see the "almost" final scene of the Episode, I mean when Decim the "Arbiter" became Decim the "Father-like" figure and hug them both. That's deep, so deep I almost can't hold out my tears.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:07 PM

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Makaze_no_Moujuu said:


He remorse, but so did she for doing what she did to him.

Still, she fought to provide a good life for her kids.

I get it, "life isn't fair", but it this case it REALLY wasn't fair. The game is presented as a trial of life, or death. Decim did something he didn't do before: HE FORCED THE COMPETITOR'S DARK-SIDE OUT. It's already a given that human instinct is to survive, but as we could see, Masiko was the only one that had anything to live for, or wanted to live period. Just look at the reactions when their joysticks "broke": Yosuke barely reacted, while Masiko acted like her life was on the line. Given the way the lived their lives, it was obvious from the jump that she would be the one to show her worst side, as she lived a life where she's been slapped back to rock bottom so much, and had just managed to live a life worth living.

I get that he was depressed, but that doesn't negate the fact that she lived the harder life, and had more reason to be depressed, yet she did what she could to make it better; even if she made some bad decisions on the way. She was the stronger person, she was the one with the will to live.


This entirely...

 
Jan 30, 2015 9:08 PM
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Makaze_no_Moujuu said:

I put the quotes in a spoiler.

In other words, she should be reincarnated because she isn't responsible for her own actions, while
he shouldn't because he IS responsible for his own lack of action?
What was it called again? Infantilization, was it?
Modified by konatachan80, Jan 30, 2015 9:14 PM
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:09 PM

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Landos said:
Makaze_no_Moujuu said:


Well fucking said.

The women did the best she could to both live and happy life, and raise five children on her own.

A woman, whose, suffered thru multiple abusive relationships still managed to find the drive to continue living, be successful, and raise her children alone. Yes, perhaps she, after being treated like a worthless piece of shit for much of her life, became obsessed with making something of herself, and probably neglected the true feelings of her children. Her slapping her assistant looked like a defense mechanism: she saw her assistant failing as an obstacle to her now successful life. It wasn't right, it's very likely that she didn't treat her assistant very well, but that doesn't excuse said assistant murdering her as she was calling to check on her children.

This woman was physically and mentally abused for years, but she didn't give up, like her assistant, or this otaku/neet.

Yosuke WASTED his life, and neglected a father, and step-mother, who loved him and provided him with everything he wanted to enable his selfish desires. He didn't have to struggle for what he wanted.

Also, this game was presented as a game for their lives.....but why would a person, who didn't care about whether he lived, or died, fight as hard as he could to live? This woman had a HUGE chip on her shoulder, and five kids to raise.

I wanted her to reincarnated, so that maybe she could get a second chance at a happy life. Why give it to the guy who just sat there and gave his up, when he had all the support he needed?


Utterly ridiculous to say she deserved to be reincarnated.

All you have done in this post is paint this rosy picture of a woman who is a sociopath and an attempted murder as a victim.

You even go as far as saying her slapping her assistant was what did call it a 'defense mechanism"? So you even have accuses for her slapping down the assistant. The assistant killed her because she was being abused by her employer for what I am assuming is for a while. She is being abused by the person you are victimizing and yet you wonder why the assistant snapped and killed her? Kinda the same reason how Misaki snapped and tried to kill Misaki.

The hypocrisy is hilarious.


How is she a sociopath?

Also, I never excused her slapping her assistant. I said the slap, as well as the way she treated her assistant, was a defense mechanism against anything, or anyone, that was to keep her from living a good life, after being treated like shit for a lot of her life. I said that it wasn't right, but that doesn't excuse the assistant murdering her, KNOWING she had children that depended on her, and WHILE she was checking on said children.

Misaki tried to kill Yosuke, in fit of adrenaline, because she was under the assumption that losing = death. She had finally made something of her life, and had five kids to raise. It's not a shock that she'd do anything in her power to fight for her right to live.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:14 PM

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Finally two people who doesn't have a connection with each other.
That was heartbreaking especially the part when Decim was hugging them, ugh my feels. I was expecting the woman to be reincarnated as well tho but..
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:14 PM

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This episode was deep with emotions. I teared up towards the end because of how they both reflected on their life and hoping to go back. Really glad the guy got sent back because overall the woman had more darkness throughout her life while the guy just couldn't accept his new mother and secluded himself. Really loving this anime more as each episode goes by though, can't wait till next week.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:15 PM

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Even though I loathe otakus and weebs, I sort of felt for the guy. Whatever, cool episode, though it's starting to get somewhat repetitive.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:16 PM

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Makaze_no_Moujuu said:
Landos said:


Utterly ridiculous to say she deserved to be reincarnated.

All you have done in this post is paint this rosy picture of a woman who is a sociopath and an attempted murder as a victim.

You even go as far as saying her slapping her assistant was what did call it a 'defense mechanism"? So you even have accuses for her slapping down the assistant. The assistant killed her because she was being abused by her employer for what I am assuming is for a while. She is being abused by the person you are victimizing and yet you wonder why the assistant snapped and killed her? Kinda the same reason how Misaki snapped and tried to kill Misaki.

The hypocrisy is hilarious.


How is she a sociopath?

Also, I never excused her slapping her assistant. I said the slap, as well as the way she treated her assistant, was a defense mechanism against anything, or anyone, that was to keep her from living a good life, after being treated like shit for a lot of her life. I said that it wasn't right, but that doesn't excuse the assistant murdering her, KNOWING she had children that depended on her, and WHILE she was checking on said children.

Misaki tried to kill Yosuke, in fit of adrenaline, because she was under the assumption that losing = death. She had finally made something of her life, and had five kids to raise. It's not a shock that she'd do anything in her power to fight for her right to live.


Huh? Do you not understand the concept of abuse? You don't choke someone to death over one slap, no you do it after repeated intenses. This poor assistant who was doing her job, was getting abused by Misaki because she using her as punching bag as an outlet from the abuse she was getting at home. After so much punishment, she snapped and did the deed. This is could be said about abused housewives who after so much, they finally kill their husband in an act of rage.

You are once again victim blaming an attempted murderer. Try using that line in court and see how fast your defense attorney would advise you to not say it.
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Jan 30, 2015 9:17 PM

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Best episode yet. It's extremely well directed, well written and very emotional. Seriously I was feeling their emotions at the end. The show did well to tug at the heartstrings even though the flashbacks weren't very well fleshed out. That's a testament to the writing, acting, and direction.

If I were the arbiter, no one would be sent to the void yet. I could go on a lengthy verbiage about how we are a product of our genes, environment and circumstances, but then if we were to consider all these contributing factors and downplay the notion of free will, no one but the worst degenerates would end up in the void, and then the show wouldn't be very interesting.

Ironically, as a show about judging people, I think it doesn't want us to judge people (at least not in a "he or she got their just desserts" way). I think instead the show wants us to feel sorry for the people sent to the void, to feel the cruelty of the judgement. It wants us to consider their circumstances and backgrounds. It wants to educate us of the fact that terrible people are often a product of equally terrible circumstances. Abusers are often victims of abuse themselves. Case in point, Misako was abused by her husband and went on to abuse her assistant.

Side note: I think Decim felt her desire to be with her children at the end, but he also understood that the desire was ultimately tinged with selfishness. It was more about her wanting to be happy rather than wanting her children to be happy.
Modified by Torrible, Jan 30, 2015 9:54 PM
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:17 PM

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Makaze_no_Moujuu said:
willierocks said:


He was scared by his biological mother. Depression is a serious illness. Trapped in a mental hell doesn't sound fun to me. He needed treatment (therapy/meds). While the woman didn't ask for the first abusive relationship, her actions kept leading her to abusive relationships. Yosuke didn't ask for depression, but his actions were less consequential than hers. He just stayed depressed and didn't try to use anyone. Yosuke had something called remorse. If you're having suicidal ideations, usually you are glad you don't go through with them, because you have better days. But on the bad days those thoughts are there and you forget about the better parts of life. I don't think anyone that commits suicide would feel glad they did it, they'd be remorseful.... its a one time thing that can't be reversed.


He remorse, but so did she for doing what she did to him.

Still, she fought to provide a good life for her kids.

I get it, "life isn't fair", but it this case it REALLY wasn't fair. The game is presented as a trial of life, or death. Decim did something he didn't do before: HE FORCED THE COMPETITOR'S DARK-SIDE OUT. It's already a given that human instinct is to survive, but as we could see, Masiko was the only one that had anything to live for, or wanted to live period. Just look at the reactions when their joysticks "broke": Yosuke barely reacted, while Masiko acted like her life was on the line. Given the way the lived their lives, it was obvious from the jump that she would be the one to show her worst side, as she lived a life where she's been slapped back to rock bottom so much, and had just managed to live a life worth living.

I get that he was depressed, but that doesn't negate the fact that she lived the harder life, and had more reason to be depressed, yet she did what she could to make it better; even if she made some bad decisions on the way. She was the stronger person, she was the one with the will to live.



Really in the end you can't quantify someones total suffering. Its especially hard to quantify emotional suffering. I don't think we got enough details to know who actually suffered worse in total. Yes he was never physically abused, but he could have been in a worse mental state than she was. He had something to live for, he probably just hadn't found it yet. Being depressed makes you lethargic... You don't want to do anything, but given time he may have found a career, had a family,etc. But once again we don't have enough background to assess clearly, so most are assumptions.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:21 PM

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konatachan80 said:
Makaze_no_Moujuu said:

I put the quotes in a spoiler.

In other words, she should be reincarnated because she isn't responsible for her own actions, while
he should because he IS responsible for his own lack of action?
What was it called again? Infantilisomething, was it?


Actually, I wanted both to get reincarnated.

Never said she wasn't responsible, all I'm saying is that if I had to choose one to reincarnate I'd choose the one that that had the will to live, and fought against all the odds stacked against her to make a life worth living.

Yosuke was scared by his mother at a young age, but he still had the support of his father, and step-mother, that provided him with love, food, clothing and all his otaku stuff. At the end of the day, he could get over himself enough to realize what he had, or make something of himself.

Misako was a flawed person, and was cursed to be abusive relationships, and be forced to raise 5 children on her own. Her experiences changed her to women who did anything to bring something of value to her life. It doesn't justify her treatment of her assistant, but it adds context. Also, do you know how many women in her situation would've given up? Looking at Yosuke, he would've committed suicide, leaving those five children to raise themselves! She fought to earn living to build a happy life for her, and her children.

http://i.imgur.com/Z0oFa6e.png

That is why I'd let her get a second chance. Her will to live give me hope that she'd use it to the fullest, unlike Yosuke.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:26 PM

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This episode was alright. I kinda wish they went into more depth about why he committed suicide. I understand the whole thing about his parent's divorce and him being depressed but I feel like some more scenes were needed to "wrap it up" or something idk.

I'm starting to have doubts about the show. Now that I've seen the game play out 4 times I really don't like how the winner of the game is pointless. I get that he uses the game to create extreme conditions to judge them both but it just takes out a lot of the excitement. I'm not liking the direction this show is going in and I can see it getting really repetitive unless we get some really unique characters or games in the upcoming episodes. Hopefully it turns around.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:28 PM
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I just love how everyone is focusing on "past" even though it was explicitly stated that "past" is NOT basis for judgment and whole game stuff wouldn't be needed if souls could be judged by "past".

It was explained how system works in episode 2 — they put two souls without memories of past in extreme stress and see how they behave. THIS is what is used for judgment. And result for woman doesn't leave any space for pardon — she tried to manipulate male to make him lose, then when it didn't work as she intended, lashed out with verbal abuse, and then when it didn't work either, she just tried to kill him.
Its very clear that her soul is wicked, and why it is in this state doesn't even matter. You don't send wicked souls to reincarnate.

Besides, petty excuses like "but she had 5 children and was abused in the past" wouldn't work even in real world courts.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:32 PM

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willierocks said:
Makaze_no_Moujuu said:


He remorse, but so did she for doing what she did to him.

Still, she fought to provide a good life for her kids.

I get it, "life isn't fair", but it this case it REALLY wasn't fair. The game is presented as a trial of life, or death. Decim did something he didn't do before: HE FORCED THE COMPETITOR'S DARK-SIDE OUT. It's already a given that human instinct is to survive, but as we could see, Masiko was the only one that had anything to live for, or wanted to live period. Just look at the reactions when their joysticks "broke": Yosuke barely reacted, while Masiko acted like her life was on the line. Given the way the lived their lives, it was obvious from the jump that she would be the one to show her worst side, as she lived a life where she's been slapped back to rock bottom so much, and had just managed to live a life worth living.

I get that he was depressed, but that doesn't negate the fact that she lived the harder life, and had more reason to be depressed, yet she did what she could to make it better; even if she made some bad decisions on the way. She was the stronger person, she was the one with the will to live.



Really in the end you can't quantify someones total suffering. Its especially hard to quantify emotional suffering. I don't think we got enough details to know who actually suffered worse in total. Yes he was never physically abused, but he could have been in a worse mental state than she was. He had something to live for, he probably just hadn't found it yet. Being depressed makes you lethargic... You don't want to do anything, but given time he may have found a career, had a family,etc. But once again we don't have enough background to assess clearly, so most are assumptions.


You can say "most are assumptions", but I'm basing what I'm saying off of what I see. Also, you think that being in multiple abusive relationships, being rejected multiple times and being forced to raise 5 kids alone, wouldn't yield toward her also having a terrible mental state, if not worse than his?

Yeah, people take things better than others
willierocks said:
Makaze_no_Moujuu said:


He remorse, but so did she for doing what she did to him.

Still, she fought to provide a good life for her kids.

I get it, "life isn't fair", but it this case it REALLY wasn't fair. The game is presented as a trial of life, or death. Decim did something he didn't do before: HE FORCED THE COMPETITOR'S DARK-SIDE OUT. It's already a given that human instinct is to survive, but as we could see, Masiko was the only one that had anything to live for, or wanted to live period. Just look at the reactions when their joysticks "broke": Yosuke barely reacted, while Masiko acted like her life was on the line. Given the way the lived their lives, it was obvious from the jump that she would be the one to show her worst side, as she lived a life where she's been slapped back to rock bottom so much, and had just managed to live a life worth living.

I get that he was depressed, but that doesn't negate the fact that she lived the harder life, and had more reason to be depressed, yet she did what she could to make it better; even if she made some bad decisions on the way. She was the stronger person, she was the one with the will to live.



Really in the end you can't quantify someones total suffering. Its especially hard to quantify emotional suffering. I don't think we got enough details to know who actually suffered worse in total. Yes he was never physically abused, but he could have been in a worse mental state than she was. He had something to live for, he probably just hadn't found it yet. Being depressed makes you lethargic... You don't want to do anything, but given time he may have found a career, had a family,etc. But once again we don't have enough background to assess clearly, so most are assumptions.


You can say that, but, based off what we've seen, she had more reason to be depressed and suicidal. Being in one abusive relationship is enough to ruin people's minds, but being in at least two? AND being abandoned to raise five children on her own? That's more than enough to break a person, due to the stress alone.

Yeah, some people can take shit better than others, but at some point you gotta help yourself. Misako did, while Yosuke sat on his ass.
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:32 PM
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Makaze_no_Moujuu said:
konatachan80 said:

In other words, she should be reincarnated because she isn't responsible for her own actions, while
he should because he IS responsible for his own lack of action?
What was it called again? Infantilisomething, was it?


Actually, I wanted both to get reincarnated.

Never said she wasn't responsible, all I'm saying is that if I had to choose one to reincarnate I'd choose the one that that had the will to live, and fought against all the odds stacked against her to make a life worth living.

Yosuke was scared by his mother at a young age, but he still had the support of his father, and step-mother, that provided him with love, food, clothing and all his otaku stuff. At the end of the day, he could get over himself enough to realize what he had, or make something of himself.

Misako was a flawed person, and was cursed to be abusive relationships, and be forced to raise 5 children on her own. Her experiences changed her to women who did anything to bring something of value to her life. It doesn't justify her treatment of her assistant, but it adds context. Also, do you know how many women in her situation would've given up? Looking at Yosuke, he would've committed suicide, leaving those five children to raise themselves! She fought to earn living to build a happy life for her, and her children.
...
That is why I'd let her get a second chance. Her will to live give me hope that she'd use it to the fullest, unlike Yosuke.

It was so many excuses that it sounded like she wasn't responsible for her own actions.
It isn't very different from other situations where one (at least partially) excuses a female
for just about anything, while throwing the book at a male for doing the exact same.

Her will to live at the cost of everyone else, just as she has done so far, compared to him
regretting both the suicide and not fulfilling his step-mom's wish.

Before the game I would've said to reincarnate both, but afterwards, no to her.
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:35 PM
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WAD1992 said:
koolvid said:

"but he didn't harm anyone" Yeah he didn't harm anyone with his suicide right? I'm sure his father and step mother are just fine!


he did regret his suicide for the "right reasons" unlike the woman who regretted her death because she only wanted another shot on life.

Well you could spin it that way for him wasting his life at an age where he has full control of it and ability to make it a better life or seek help but didn't that woman want to return to life for her children?
blaze it
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:38 PM
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Landos said:
Makaze_no_Moujuu said:


How is she a sociopath?

Also, I never excused her slapping her assistant. I said the slap, as well as the way she treated her assistant, was a defense mechanism against anything, or anyone, that was to keep her from living a good life, after being treated like shit for a lot of her life. I said that it wasn't right, but that doesn't excuse the assistant murdering her, KNOWING she had children that depended on her, and WHILE she was checking on said children.

Misaki tried to kill Yosuke, in fit of adrenaline, because she was under the assumption that losing = death. She had finally made something of her life, and had five kids to raise. It's not a shock that she'd do anything in her power to fight for her right to live.


Huh? Do you not understand the concept of abuse? You don't choke someone to death over one slap, no you do it after repeated intenses. This poor assistant who was doing her job, was getting abused by Misaki because she using her as punching bag as an outlet from the abuse she was getting at home. After so much punishment, she snapped and did the deed. This is could be said about abused housewives who after so much, they finally kill their husband in an act of rage.

You are once again victim blaming an attempted murderer. Try using that line in court and see how fast your defense attorney would advise you to not say it.

Even though we have to proof she abusing her assistant at least once we don't actually know if it was routine kind of thing. you think being hit every now and then at work is going to spare her in court as to why she killed woman let alone a celebrity (who by the way seemed to show signs of being abused herself). Nonetheless neither would be saved in court.
Modified by koolvid, Jan 30, 2015 9:55 PM
blaze it
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:41 PM
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More, more, and even more questions still can catch it totally wich ones are going to hell wich ones not, and what about that "judgement device" thing, but well this episode in particular I felted pretty hard and deep, diferent from the third one this one represents completly the entire lives from total strangers than only specific events from chlidhood friends.
Really liked the idea of two strangers, cause i was wondering about it , now waiting for man/man, woman/woman, or something like father/son, will see how it develops.
About the "dead ones" I think that first of all, although it sound dark and stuff, I agree with Decim that lifes is unfair, and If yoiu cannt afront the reality or try to adapt to it or simply try move forward, you'll ended up in a crisis, i that was what happen to them, I mean in one hand we got the boy that their parents got divorce he only refuse it and refuse the idea of having a new mom, he get into a depression and commited suicide, and the other we got the woman that, okey she had a terrible inhuman time, an ended up with like five kids, but once she starts a new oportunity in life she acts like a selfish mother and complete b#%&h, so come.
just wondering here what surprises will come to us next episode...
 
Jan 30, 2015 9:41 PM
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Wow.
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Jan 30, 2015 9:43 PM

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RusAnon said:
I just love how everyone is focusing on "past" even though it was explicitly stated that "past" is NOT basis for judgment and whole game stuff wouldn't be needed if souls could be judged by "past".

It was explained how system works in episode 2 — they put two souls without memories of past in extreme stress and see how they behave. THIS is what is used for judgment. And result for woman doesn't leave any space for pardon — she tried to manipulate male to make him lose, then when it didn't work as she intended, lashed out with verbal abuse, and then when it didn't work either, she just tried to kill him.
Its very clear that her soul is wicked, and why it is in this state doesn't even matter. You don't send wicked souls to reincarnate.

Besides, petty excuses like "but she had 5 children and was abused in the past" wouldn't work even in real world courts.


Actually, the past does matter, because, as shown in the other two games, these people are still the same people they were before they died. Their life experiences paint us a picture of of how far a person is willing to go. Let's also not forget that they still think that they are alive, and that losing means death; what they leave behind when they die can also have am effect on the person's emotional state, and then the reaction they have when faced with what they see as DEATH.

I get it, "life isn't fair", but it this case it REALLY wasn't fair. The game is presented as a trial of life, or death. Decim did something he didn't do before: HE FORCED THE COMPETITOR'S DARK-SIDE OUT. It's already a given that human instinct is to survive, but as we could see, Masiko was the only one that had anything to live for, or wanted to live period. Just look at the reactions when their joysticks "broke": Yosuke barely reacted, while Masiko acted like her life was on the line. Given the way the lived their lives, it was obvious from the jump that she would be the one to show her worst side, as she lived a life where she's been slapped back to rock bottom so much, and had just managed to live a life worth living.

I get that he was depressed, but that doesn't negate the fact that she lived the harder life, and had more reason to be depressed, yet she did what she could to make it better; even if she made some bad decisions on the way. She was the stronger person, she was the one with the will to live.


Also, while I get the system, it's still wholly based on circumstance, and thus BS.

What if a person, who died while trying to save someone he loved, gets paired with a person who lived a rather fulfilled life? In these extreme circumstance, the person who was desperate to save the life a loved one will do whatever it takes to survive to save the person who was in danger, because he/she still thinks they're alive, and thus has time to complete their task.

Misako had much more to lose than Yosuke, thus the result we got, was the result we were always going to get. Decim knows this, yet still forced Misako's hand. It's fucked up.

Both should've got reincarnated, but If I had to choose one I'd choose Misako.
 
Jan 30, 2015 10:04 PM

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These Episodes are really well Directed. I just hope that the other Side characters you see in the opening and the w/e is going on with Nona don't interfere nor deter from the shows strong point. Which is the struggle of whomever is playing the game...

Also I would totally main yosuke in Death Street Fighter
 
Jan 30, 2015 10:21 PM

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Good episode, definitely not the happy feels of last week.

I guess this was the episode that was supposed to introduce controversy. Like each episode adds a different element (ep.1-2 seemingly wrong decision, later proved wrong. ep3. both characters were clearly good. ep.4 character that lies in the grey area. Also introduced the idea that maybe forcing the darkness out of people is a bad thing and changes what the outcome could have/should have been).

And I'm sure that there are some people that are immediately like, yup she should go to hell, and others that are like, no way she should be redeemed.

But when you weigh everything:
+ She was treated like absolute shit her entire life. Married to at least 2 men, maybe more. Ended up having 5 kids. Every single husband beat the living shit out of her before leaving her.
- On that note, they also made it seem like she cheated on her husbands and slept around a lot in between marriages (somewhat understandable).

+ She did seem to have a love for her kids
- Though in times of bad physical abuse, financial troubles, work problems piling up etc, she probably took them for granted and probably even saw them as a burden at times
(Like same thing with the guy and his stepmom. Didn't hate her, but took her presence for granted).

- didn't treat her employees well
+ Though in hard times its understandable to get angry. Doesn't mean she should slap her around, but the bitch did murder her with a scarf for god sakes.

- Smashed the guy's face into the machine like 30 times
+ Though she thought she was going to die, plus when she snapped out of I she did try to stop the game to save him.

If you look at it from just her getting incredibly angry and freaking out during the game, yea that could be considered dark. But when you factor in how incredibly fucked over her entire life was, and she believed she was playing a death game, most people would probably freak out. It was also pretty justifiable for her to flip shit when she realized she died just as her life was starting to be less shitty.

Gotta say, Decim is kind of a pussy. Too scared to take one punch from a girl. C'mon, sack up mister tough guy arbiter.

EDIT: Saw a couple people mentioning how intense two best friends in the bar together would be. And I definitely agree. Another intense one would be family. Like a parent & child together, or siblings.
Modified by Jonesy974, Jan 30, 2015 10:29 PM
 
Jan 30, 2015 10:22 PM

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I prefer the guy went to void.. suicide is worst than being a mother trying to raise her child.. He was sent to reincarnate and now in the next life he will take suicide again, better put the chance to Misaki,..

 
Jan 30, 2015 10:36 PM
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Jonesy974 said:
- didn't treat her employees well
+ Though in hard times its understandable to get angry. Doesn't mean she should slap her around, but the bitch did murder her with a scarf for god sakes.

So when she gets mistreated, you blame ones who abused her. Yet, when she abuses others and turns them in murderers, its now reversed, abused ones are to be blamed for not keeping up with abuse and snapping.

Basically, with that employee, it just shows how she didn't only ruin her own life, but she also kept this "abused and abuse" cycle repeated, forcing it on innocent bystanders who got unlucky to get affiliated with her.
 
Jan 30, 2015 10:44 PM

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Hidden-camera show? Lol. This time we have an arcade game!
It's Yousuke vs Misaki! Yousuke wins first, then Misaki, then a draw.

Someone always gets stringed, but everyone gets Decim hugs. (^_^)
That judgment device though really brings out the darkness.

Seems like we'll be seeing new characters next episode.
And the next game seems interesting.
I’m always searching for something, for someone. This feeling has possessed me I think, from that day… That day when the stars came falling.
 
Jan 30, 2015 10:47 PM

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That ended as I would have expected it to. Suicide might be unsightly, but it was a result of depression that spawned from a divorce that Yousuke had no ability to control, exacerbated by low self-esteem resulting from being told continuously how worthless he was. People who are depressed cannot be considered to have full autonomy over their judgment, and thus the sin of suicide is lessened, if not entirely reprieved.

Misaki, on the other hand, showed a clear lack of morals by her own choice (starting from teenage pregnancy), worsened with an amusing level of continual indulgence in the carnal desire that originally led to her misfortune, and persisted with hooking onto a new guy despite being beaten to a pulp each time. To top it off, she vented her mistreatment in violent and brutal ways against others. Her smashing Yousuke's head against the screen was hardly necessary to prove this point and potentially overbearing, but if anything it was the "必殺技" to her sealed fate.
 
Jan 30, 2015 11:03 PM

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dem feels in this episode ;____;
 
Jan 30, 2015 11:04 PM

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I almost, almost cried.
 
Jan 30, 2015 11:10 PM
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If you do not understand why the lady was sent to hell, listen/read.

The woman is manipulative. Think about the entire episode. She was manipulating the him the entire time. (We're on a game show. Go along with me and I'll tell you what to do. Lose this game. You need to let me free because of 'whatever excuse to save my skin'.) Then her behavior toward the guy where she beat his face into the machine showed her true colors.

You can say it was for the kids, but that doesn't excuse her personality. She's a manipulative person and I have no doubt it was a lie.

If you believed she deserved to go to heaven after all that, then she was manipulating you too.
 
Jan 30, 2015 11:19 PM

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TheKnox said:
If you do not understand why the lady was sent to hell, listen/read.

The woman is manipulative. Think about the entire episode. She was manipulating the him the entire time. (We're on a game show. Go along with me and I'll tell you what to do. Lose this game. You need to let me free because of 'whatever excuse to save my skin'.) Then her behavior toward the guy where she beat his face into the machine showed her true colors.

You can say it was for the kids, but that doesn't excuse her personality. She's a manipulative person and I have no doubt it was a lie.

If you believed she deserved to go to heaven after all that, then she was manipulating you too.
Not heaven but reincarnation. Because she got pregnant early on and was abused by multiple men she was forced to do whatever she had to in order to survive. The otaku on the other hand took his own life instead of trying to live. Why does he deserve to be reincarnated. If the women was in a different situation things might have been different.
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Jan 31, 2015 12:07 AM
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BossTheKid said:
If the women was in a different situation things might have been different.


The same can be said for the man, if he had been in a different situation he most likely would not have killed himself.
In any case, they were both put through the same situation with the same knowledge in the game, she chose to manipulate and use violence to try and get her way while he didnt. It's pretty easy to see who should go up and who should go down, even if your moral compass doesn't point north.
 
Jan 31, 2015 12:15 AM

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The woman has certainly done well. Although, her final actions while playing the game, as well as life, were bathed in hurting others. Admitting wrong actions sometimes saves from difficult outcomes, but not this one.

I felt a little sad as I watched the final moments of the two. A caring mother and a thoughtful son.
 
Jan 31, 2015 12:33 AM
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From what was shown from his flash back they both seemed to be victims of abuse. The otaku's mother was abusive to him growing up so he distanced himself from others. His dad remarried but he so use to keeping everyone away he never opened up and built a relationship with his step mom. So after years of being alone he got sick of it and decided on whim to kill himself. Way I see it is what he needed before he got to that point was counseling.
 
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