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Poll: Death Parade Episode 4 Discussion


Jan 30, 2015 5:59 PM

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> [i]True in that she should have not slap her. Though, I was talking with the guy above me, who stated she didn't care about her children :

She effectively tried to use her children (whom she neglected to an extent) to save herself.


> [i]Actually, in that scene, which is the same that happened afterward with the guy and his stepmother, the ultimate ability or whatever consisted in the protection given by the loved ones [ i.e. children / stepmother ]. In both cases they were deeply moved to see their loved ones defend them in the game.


She was happy, but she was also mad about how weak they were, but with the otaku, he finally called his stepmom momma. Her kids resented her or at least the eldeset, and thus her move was weaker compared to the stepmom, that cared for her stepson without his acknowledgement.




> She said "send me back to those children", unless there was a mistranslation, it would seem that she was saying that as a last hope of getting to live.

> [i]Also, no. That was the instinctive reaction of a mother which did not know how could her children live without her. She seemed terrified by the thought of them being completely alone. You can also notice that were true intentions / emotions by the fact that Quindecim tries to comfort both contestants while they are crying.




If English is your native tongue, then there is a BIG difference between "those children" and "my children". Those would imply that she cared more about herself than the children. It gives off a tone of discontent about the children, where if she used "my" it would have a more endearing tone.

During the flashbacks you can see the contempt in the childrens faces towards their mother, because she gained fame by using their situation. It might have started out with good intention, but her actions throughout the show made it easy to see that the fame had gone to her head. She was even surprised when the otaku didn't recognize her. Most people probably wouldn't give a crap about her show and not know, but in her head she's a super star.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:01 PM

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GoMarcia said:
Why has the woman been sent to hell? I don't get it


She tried to kill him. She also shows that she is insane and during her life she wasn't a very caring or good person. It's pretty obvious that she didn't deserve to be reincarnated. I'm not even sure that she cares for her children and even so, that doesn't entitle her to another life.
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Jan 30, 2015 6:09 PM
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DeadlyTreasure said:
She tried to kill him.


This is of hardly any importance at all, imo. The human instinct for life is a strong one. If you think you're going to die if you don't win, you'll probably do some horrible things. I mean, if that were really the case (which it wasn't, but that doesn't matter), it wouldn't matter whether she tried to kill him or just stop him from being able to play. She'd still end up winning and being the survivor (and thus indirectly killing him).

What I mean to say is that people are indirectly killing others all the time just by deciding to save themselves above others. Is that bad? Your indoctrinised morals might tell you so, but I am seriously not sure. All lives are equal(-ly useful/useless).

If you think about it in another way. If you were to donate all your well-functioning organs to 4 different people (of your own age) who need them and can't get them otherwise who would then end up living a long and healthy life. Does that make you a good person? I think it's a ridiculous decision to make, even if it were actually to work out like that (p.s. they should allow people who wish to commit suicide to give up their organs to save others this way, but that'll never happen because of strange ethics)
Modified by Narendur, Jan 30, 2015 6:14 PM
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:10 PM

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Dictator said:
The system is flawed because life is not fair.

willierocks said:
I don't understand... Are you saying that there is no meaning behind the story?
It has humans that are being judged. It can relate to the evil in mankind's souls. You don't have to include the reincarnation or void in that, yet you still have a message that starts conversation.

Then why made a anime telling us only that? That human can be evil? or selfless? It's not like we've never seen that before. It's not thought-provoking or inspiring, it's actually like what the lady said: it's a ドッキリreality show. The only purpose is to entertain your viewers by putting your characters in a strange setting and setting up some startling or shocking events to shock them and watch their reactions, except the judement part. But at the same time you are telling me why this kind of show is cruel to the people unknowingly participated when you are the one making all this up? It would be fine if the show don't go too deep into critizising the judement system but forcusing on the characters, like their thoughts about the people they judged, just make a character-centric story. You already made a troll OP, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:12 PM

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vodall said:
Oh. I thought this show would become more interesting after last week, but I guess we're back to the melodrama! It's sad, sure, but that's the whole point. Hopefully it can strive for more than an emotional response.

HiNT74 said:
And yeah it doesn't really make sense to split people into "good" and "bad" tbh
That's the point. There's recently been 1-2 anime every year that revolve around this boring "fundamentally wrong" concept, and people eat it up each time. The problem is that Death Parade is not setting itself apart from the majority.
Except if you payed attention you'd notice how the dark haired woman (that's what she's actually named as) is there to show how ridiculous it is to judge people in such black and white terms. Hell it was spelled out clearly in Death Billiards. You'll notice Decim shows signs of being unsure of the system too.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:20 PM
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ReaperCreeper said:
vodall said:
Oh. I thought this show would become more interesting after last week, but I guess we're back to the melodrama! It's sad, sure, but that's the whole point. Hopefully it can strive for more than an emotional response.

That's the point. There's recently been 1-2 anime every year that revolve around this boring "fundamentally wrong" concept, and people eat it up each time. The problem is that Death Parade is not setting itself apart from the majority.
Except if you payed attention you'd notice how the dark haired woman (that's what she's actually named as) is there to show how ridiculous it is to judge people in such black and white terms. Hell it was spelled out clearly in Death Billiards. You'll notice Decim shows signs of being unsure of the system too.


It takes some energy to dig through to the many hidden layers of meaning behind this series, but everyone will probably realise it all by the end. Let's hope people are able to draw some lessons about this concering their own lives by then:)
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:22 PM

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The woman should deserve to be reincarnated..she was just doing her best for the children and she was just lead in evil because of the unfairness of life.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:27 PM
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Definitely the most emotional episode by far. It really leaves you wondering who went where. I personally believe that both Yousuke and Misaki went to heaven, or they both went to the void. Yousuke didn't make the right choice, but he really didn't do anything. Misaki might have been a bitch, but she was obviously driven to that point due to her terrible marriage. It also seemed that Decim noticed that he might be making the wrong decision in some of these games.

Maybe I'm thinking too hard, but man I love shows that make me think about stuff, even after an episode ends.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:27 PM
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Narendur said:
DeadlyTreasure said:
She tried to kill him.


This is of hardly any importance at all, imo. The human instinct for life is a strong one. If you think you're going to die if you don't win, you'll probably do some horrible things. I mean, if that were really the case (which it wasn't, but that doesn't matter), it wouldn't matter whether she tried to kill him or just stop him from being able to play. She'd still end up winning and being the survivor (and thus indirectly killing him).

Considering how you argued, I assume you would defend him if he did exactly the same towards her?
If not, look up "double standard".

hellogarry said:
The woman should deserve to be reincarnated..she was just doing her best for the children and she was just lead in evil because of the unfairness of life.

Yeah, as if she cared more about them than what they could do for her.
Modified by konatachan80, Jan 30, 2015 6:31 PM
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:27 PM

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AaaaaaKun said:
Dictator said:
The system is flawed because life is not fair.

willierocks said:
I don't understand... Are you saying that there is no meaning behind the story?
It has humans that are being judged. It can relate to the evil in mankind's souls. You don't have to include the reincarnation or void in that, yet you still have a message that starts conversation.

Then why made a anime telling us only that? That human can be evil? or selfless? It's not like we've never seen that before. It's not thought-provoking or inspiring, it's actually like what the lady said: it's a ドッキリreality show. The only purpose is to entertain your viewers by putting your characters in a strange setting and setting up some startling or shocking events to shock them and watch their reactions, except the judement part. But at the same time you are telling me why this kind of show is cruel to the people unknowingly participated when you are the one making all this up? It would be fine if the show don't go too deep into critizising the judement system but forcusing on the characters, like their thoughts about the people they judged, just make a character-centric story. You already made a troll OP, don't expect anyone to take you seriously.



Almost anything can be interpreted as having a message. That message doesn't need to be new or old, large or small, just something of meaning. They also can illustrate the complexity of the human soul, a la ep.2. She loved him so much that she put on an act to sacrifice herself to save her husband from his grief. She'd rather him 100% hate her than keep him questioning for eternity. She fooled Decim, thus showing that while the arbiters get their memories and test them, they are no were close to omnipotent. And from next weeks teaser it seems we will get some character development, as it showed a few more members from the opening scene.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:29 PM
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What an intense episode this show just keeps getting better hoping it stays that way. Felt sad for both characters. Arbiter job isn't for the weak hearted.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:30 PM

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r0ykun said:
Definitely the most emotional episode by far. It really leaves you wondering who went where. I personally believe that both Yousuke and Misaki went to heaven, or they both went to the void. Yousuke didn't make the right choice, but he really didn't do anything. Misaki might have been a bitch, but she was obviously driven to that point due to her terrible marriage. It also seemed that Decim noticed that he might be making the wrong decision in some of these games.

Maybe I'm thinking too hard, but man I love shows that make me think about stuff, even after an episode ends.


There are masks at the top of the elevator that indicate were they go. Blue = reincarnation Red devil=void
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:32 PM

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Damn that was a heavy episode. Makes you realize the value of a life and how much of an impact one person (either good or bad) can effect others.

The teary scene reminded me of a quote (I forgot which anime it was from)
"People don't cry because they are weak but because they have been strong for too long."

Just a random quote that came to mind
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:34 PM
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how can you tell who goes to heaven or hell?
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:34 PM

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willierocks said:
She was happy, but she was also mad about how weak they were, but with the otaku, he finally called his stepmom momma. Her kids resented her or at least the eldeset, and thus her move was weaker compared to the stepmom, that cared for her stepson without his acknowledgement.


Yeah, I got that point. But I don't wanna go further in this because it would mean talking about the difference between being the parent of someone and being the child of someone.
The eldest children were resentful to a certain extent toward the behaviour of their mother [ the whole *exploit their personal situation for profit* ]. The little kid, being still oblivious to the world, was more attached to his mom, so even when the other went he remained to finish the attack.
I don't think she was mad because of them, but because of the mechanics of the game. Tbh, her reaction was more natural, given they thought they were playing their lives in there at that moment.


willierocks said:
If English is your native tongue, then there is a BIG difference between "those children" and "my children". Those would imply that she cared more about herself than the children. It gives off a tone of discontent about the children, where if she used "my" it would have a more endearing tone.

During the flashbacks you can see the contempt in the childrens faces towards their mother, because she gained fame by using their situation. It might have started out with good intention, but her actions throughout the show made it easy to see that the fame had gone to her head. She was even surprised when the otaku didn't recognize her. Most people probably wouldn't give a crap about her show and not know, but in her head she's a super star.


No it's not and I apologize for that mistake, but my statement remains. She calls them *my* children all the time.

http://i.imgur.com/FQ7S7jg.png
http://i.imgur.com/Z0oFa6e.png

And then, there's that final moment in which she states:

http://i.imgur.com/WwulMya.png


Honestly I didn't perceive it as an attempt to use *those* children as a tool to get her life back. I'll repeat it, in all her desperate attitude / behaviour I saw her concern as a mother about the destiny of her children.

By any rate, she got what she deserved, I didn't defend her general attitude during the game [ heck! she even tried to kill the otaku guy ], but what I think were her true feelings toward her children.
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Jan 30, 2015 6:36 PM

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What are you people smoking to say Misaki should have been reincarnated? Have you not watched the episode and seen what had happened?

A sociopathic attempted murderer does not get to be reincarnated. If a women cheating on her husband and being a compulsive liar can land you in hell, then why are you people so surprised Misaki is going to hell?
Modified by Eylandos, Jan 30, 2015 6:43 PM
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Jan 30, 2015 6:36 PM
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ycy94z said:
how can you tell who goes to heaven or hell?

The masks above the doors. devil with horns= void/hell, white(ish) face mask = reincarnation.

In the image below, left = reincarnation, right = void.
http://i.imgur.com/gjVIsGN.jpg
Modified by konatachan80, Jan 30, 2015 6:45 PM
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:42 PM

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That was intense. Must be so hard to decide who goes to hell. But you have to choose one of them. I mean, damn. Poor her. She was changing, but she died. Well she snaped a girl before dying, but she was taking care of her kids now, and she was beaten several times... I mean she really commited "sins", but her life was messed up. She suffered so much. It's hard not to lose your mind sometimes. Right after almost "killing" the guy, she regret it and freak out completely. Between the two, yea, she should go to hell. Her actions, everything. And I found it REALLY interesting that they didn't send the guy who commited suicide to hell. Like two days ago this girl killed herself and people kept saying "poor her, she died to meet her father, but she killed herself, so she won't meet him". I mean, what? Why? Srsly this anime is really good. In the last episode I asked like "why that guy went to hell? I mean he wasn't that bad at all" and that was it. Didn't think much about it. But this one really got me. They were sent there together, so one of them should go to hell. But did she REALLY deserve it? She deserved more than the guy, if you put it in a sins balance, but she didn't deserve it at all. As she said "Who do you think you are to judge me?" And yea, who the hell people think they are to say "Aw, she's going to hell because she killed herself"
I MEAN I DON'T KNOW I'M JUST WONDERING BUT BUT YOU KNOW?
"Oh but it's religion stuff" well I don't know about that. I respect people religions but IDK THIS IS JUST SO UGHUAIFHFSJOIDCKX.
And now this anime has done it. He killed himself, and he was reborn. She was murdered, and went to "hell". It's their work to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't, so they have to do it, but I can only think "Can you really judge a person only by seeing all their life?" Like, if you commit sins you go to hell and if you don't you go to heaven. Right. Then if you were "good" in a part of your life and "bad" in the other, you go to hell anyway, even if you're changing? The answer in the anime seems to be yes, but we can only see in the next episodes.
And... Okay, I might be truly in love with this anime.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:42 PM

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I think that the beauty of the designs and animation in this show is seriously wasted on showing people that are in indecently broken state.

The conflict between a wolfmother and a closed-off child could've been good, but here their situations are of such a great difference in weight, that it's hard to compare, and they didn't really communicate enough to cover for it. I mean, she lived a low life, had several unhappy marriages and fought to raise five childeren. No wonder she is wild, though it is ugly. His story wasn't explained in details. His family collapsed, but he got a step-mother, who cared about him. And I don't think that we've been shown, why he commited suicide. Anyway, he seems to have had better chances in life. He, probably, was a better person, but, on the other hand, sporadic suicide is lame and wasteful.
And in the end the series chooses to give its judgement. More and more I think that it would be better to not show the outcome.

Also, Decim seems to have doubts. I hope that they mean it as a metaphor for human suffering or something, because I can't say that as of now I am terribly interested in learning the shortcomings of a completely fictional judgement system.
Modified by deadoptimist, Jan 30, 2015 6:47 PM
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:43 PM

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Brynhildr said:
willierocks said:
She was happy, but she was also mad about how weak they were, but with the otaku, he finally called his stepmom momma. Her kids resented her or at least the eldeset, and thus her move was weaker compared to the stepmom, that cared for her stepson without his acknowledgement.


Yeah, I got that point. But I don't wanna go further in this because it would mean talking about the difference between being the parent of someone and being the child of someone.
The eldest children were resentful to a certain extent toward the behaviour of their mother [ the whole *exploit their personal situation for profit* ]. The little kid, being still oblivious to the world, was more attached to his mom, so even when the other went he remained to finish the attack.
I don't think she was mad because of them, but because of the mechanics of the game. Tbh, her reaction was more natural, given they thought they were playing their lives in there at that moment.


willierocks said:
If English is your native tongue, then there is a BIG difference between "those children" and "my children". Those would imply that she cared more about herself than the children. It gives off a tone of discontent about the children, where if she used "my" it would have a more endearing tone.

During the flashbacks you can see the contempt in the childrens faces towards their mother, because she gained fame by using their situation. It might have started out with good intention, but her actions throughout the show made it easy to see that the fame had gone to her head. She was even surprised when the otaku didn't recognize her. Most people probably wouldn't give a crap about her show and not know, but in her head she's a super star.


No it's not and I apologize for that mistake, but my statement remains. She calls them *my* children all the time.

http://i.imgur.com/FQ7S7jg.png
http://i.imgur.com/Z0oFa6e.png

And then, there's that final moment in which she states:

http://i.imgur.com/WwulMya.png


Honestly I didn't perceive it as an attempt to use *those* children as a tool to get her life back. I'll repeat it, in all her desperate attitude / behaviour I saw her concern as a mother about the destiny of her children.

By any rate, she got what she deserved, I didn't defend her general attitude during the game [ heck! she even tried to kill the otaku guy ], but what I think were her true feelings toward her children.


Well lets just agree to disagree :) Everyone can interpret the same thing in a multitude of ways, like how Christians interpret the Bible and how many denomination there are. Each denomination has a different interpretation of the Bible, some are vastly different, some only disagree on a couple verses. (Just using this as an example in the real world that I know)
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:48 PM

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Another emotional episode. She deserved another chance.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:48 PM

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MaahHeim said:
That was intense. Must be so hard to decide who goes to hell. But you have to choose one of them. I mean, damn. Poor her. She was changing, but she died. Well she snaped a girl before dying, but she was taking care of her kids now, and she was beaten several times... I mean she really commited "sins", but her life was messed up. She suffered so much. It's hard not to lose your mind sometimes. Right after almost "killing" the guy, she regret it and freak out completely. Between the two, yea, she should go to hell. Her actions, everything. And I found it REALLY interesting that they didn't send the guy who commited suicide to hell. Like two days ago this girl killed herself and people kept saying "poor her, she died to meet her father, but she killed herself, so she won't meet him". I mean, what? Why? Srsly this anime is really good. In the last episode I asked like "why that guy went to hell? I mean he wasn't that bad at all" and that was it. Didn't think much about it. But this one really got me. They were sent there together, so one of them should go to hell. But did she REALLY deserve it? She deserved more than the guy, if you put it in a sins balance, but she didn't deserve it at all. As she said "Who do you think you are to judge me?" And yea, who the hell people think they are to say "Aw, she's going to hell because she killed herself"
I MEAN I DON'T KNOW I'M JUST WONDERING BUT BUT YOU KNOW?
"Oh but it's religion stuff" well I don't know about that. I respect people religions but IDK THIS IS JUST SO UGHUAIFHFSJOIDCKX.
And now this anime has done it. He killed himself, and he was reborn. She was murdered, and went to "hell". It's their work to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't, so they have to do it, but I can only think "Can you really judge a person only by seeing all their life?" Like, if you commit sins you go to hell and if you don't you go to heaven. Right. Then if you were "good" in a part of your life and "bad" in the other, you go to hell anyway, even if you're changing? The answer in the anime seems to be yes, but we can only see in the next episodes.
And... Okay, I might be truly in love with this anime.


The guy in episode 3 was reincarnated and not sent to the void. Both him and the girl showed their pure hearts (not perfect of course ) and sent for reincarnation.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:50 PM

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This really tells us about life. We're judged by our actions when alive, after death nothing really matters, no matter how we beg or cry for forgiveness or another chance, it's over. We can't change the crappy way we lived :(
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Jan 30, 2015 6:50 PM

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deadoptimist said:
I think that the beauty of the designs and animation in this show is seriously wasted on showing people that are in indecently broken state.

The conflict between a wolfmother and a closed-off child could've been good, but here their situations are of such a great difference in weight, that it's hard to compare, and they didn't really communicate enough to cover for it. I mean, she lived a low life, had several unhappy marriages and fought to raise five childeren. No wonder she is wild, though it is ugly. His story wasn't explained in details. His family collapsed, but he got a step-mother, who cared about him. Amd I don't think that we've been shown, why he did commit suicide. Anyway, he seems to have had better chances in life. He, probably, was a better person, but, on the other hand, sporadic suicide is lame and wasteful.
And in the end the series chooses to give its judgement. Mora and more I think that it would be better to not show the outcome.

Also, Decim seems to have doubts. I hope that they mean it as a metaphor on human suffering or something, because I can't say that as of now I am terribly interested in learning the shortcomings of a completely fictional judgement system.


Well, he was depressed. When he was about to jump, his eyes were blurred and he said "A-ah, this sucks". He was out of his mind because of sadness, I guess. Then he jumped. Those things that happened when he was a kid probably influenced it. Even with a really nice stepmother, he couldn't be happy. He couldn't trust people because of his mom, I imagine. His life at school seemed miserable as well.
Anyway, it doesn't really need a reason. It was enough reason for him.
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:52 PM

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willierocks said:
MaahHeim said:
That was intense. Must be so hard to decide who goes to hell. But you have to choose one of them. I mean, damn. Poor her. She was changing, but she died. Well she snaped a girl before dying, but she was taking care of her kids now, and she was beaten several times... I mean she really commited "sins", but her life was messed up. She suffered so much. It's hard not to lose your mind sometimes. Right after almost "killing" the guy, she regret it and freak out completely. Between the two, yea, she should go to hell. Her actions, everything. And I found it REALLY interesting that they didn't send the guy who commited suicide to hell. Like two days ago this girl killed herself and people kept saying "poor her, she died to meet her father, but she killed herself, so she won't meet him". I mean, what? Why? Srsly this anime is really good. In the last episode I asked like "why that guy went to hell? I mean he wasn't that bad at all" and that was it. Didn't think much about it. But this one really got me. They were sent there together, so one of them should go to hell. But did she REALLY deserve it? She deserved more than the guy, if you put it in a sins balance, but she didn't deserve it at all. As she said "Who do you think you are to judge me?" And yea, who the hell people think they are to say "Aw, she's going to hell because she killed herself"
I MEAN I DON'T KNOW I'M JUST WONDERING BUT BUT YOU KNOW?
"Oh but it's religion stuff" well I don't know about that. I respect people religions but IDK THIS IS JUST SO UGHUAIFHFSJOIDCKX.
And now this anime has done it. He killed himself, and he was reborn. She was murdered, and went to "hell". It's their work to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't, so they have to do it, but I can only think "Can you really judge a person only by seeing all their life?" Like, if you commit sins you go to hell and if you don't you go to heaven. Right. Then if you were "good" in a part of your life and "bad" in the other, you go to hell anyway, even if you're changing? The answer in the anime seems to be yes, but we can only see in the next episodes.
And... Okay, I might be truly in love with this anime.


The guy in episode 3 was reincarnated and not sent to the void. Both him and the girl showed their pure hearts (not perfect of course ) and sent for reincarnation.


REALLY? Then almost everything I said was out of context. I didn't see they mentioning anything, but I thought there was a normal face and a demon one in the elevators, nope? Did they say that? I really didn't see
 
Jan 30, 2015 6:54 PM

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willierocks said:
Well lets just agree to disagree :) Everyone can interpret the same thing in a multitude of ways, like how Christians interpret the Bible and how many denomination there are. Each denomination has a different interpretation of the Bible, some are vastly different, some only disagree on a couple verses. (Just using this as an example in the real world that I know)


Sure. ^^ Though, it's an interesting point, nonetheless. I would like to see if the japanese term used was indeed *those* and if they included that in the ep with the exact purpose of distancing herself from her children and to emphasize its real intentions. :)
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Jan 30, 2015 7:00 PM

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MaahHeim said:
Well, he was depressed. When he was about to jump, his eyes were blurred and he said "A-ah, this sucks". He was out of his mind because of sadness, I guess. Then he jumped. Those things that happened when he was a kid probably influenced it. Even with a really nice stepmother, he couldn't be happy. He couldn't trust people because of his mom, I imagine. His life at school seemed miserable as well.
Anyway, it doesn't really need a reason. It was enough reason for him.


But that is a wasted life. Maybe the biggest contrast between them was the amount of effort put into living the best way. I'd say that the woman is a beast to make herself believe that her life only starts in her situation. That's the complete opposite from the guy.
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:01 PM
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Brynhildr said:
willierocks said:
Well lets just agree to disagree :) Everyone can interpret the same thing in a multitude of ways, like how Christians interpret the Bible and how many denomination there are. Each denomination has a different interpretation of the Bible, some are vastly different, some only disagree on a couple verses. (Just using this as an example in the real world that I know)


Sure. ^^ Though, it's an interesting point, nonetheless. I would like to see if the japanese term used was indeed *those* and if they included that in the ep with the exact purpose of distancing herself from her children and to emphasize its real intentions. :)

Based on what was shown, the meaning of "those" in that context do seem closer to
how she's treated them (and just about everyone else) so far.
In other words, the kids isn't really important, but what they can do/provide for her is.

Btw, his eye seemed to react to that sentence.
Modified by konatachan80, Jan 30, 2015 7:14 PM
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:08 PM
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Antearion said:
Dat head smashing.

Another great episode of depicting that humans are truly monsters. One I got to give it up to Decim this episode. I think he has got better at judging since the woman came along. The way I see it was the woman deserve to go to hell and here's why. During the game when her kids came she was happy they helped out, but when she saw how weak they were she got angry at them. Now I'm now mother, but I think she should have at least been happy they even helped. Then while she was alive yes she was abused, but then she turned around and abused others. Then lastly I think she only cared about herself more then her kids. If she did I would think she would have said my children instead of those. And let's not talk about that head smashing. Just my take on it.

Anyway great episode. 5/5.


See I don't take it as showing humans as monsters. I think it shows a person that is even bad, has a story behind it. Clearly the mom was a bitch but they showed you why she was a bitch. They have yet to have a character that is evil just for the sake of evil*cough Akame ga Kill cough* I think this shows the exact opposite, that humans, even the bad ones, are not evil incarnate.
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:15 PM

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deadoptimist said:


But that is a wasted life. Maybe the biggest contrast between them was the amount of effort put into living the best way. I'd say that the woman is a beast to make herself believe that her life only starts in her situation. That's the complete opposite from the guy.


Well, I think it looked like a wasted life for him too. But I guess he didn't know how to change it, then he killed himself. He was messed up. It's hard to think clearly when you're like living it, I guess. Both of their situations show this. Both regret dying. Even with all the shit she did she still asked to see her kids again and that was only what she cared about in the moment of truly despair. And he cried thinking that he had a real mother that actually cared for him (and he simply couldn't see it when he was alive). Which comes to that thing "We only appreciate things when we lose them" for both.
That's sad.
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:21 PM

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I went through the thread I must say that people have very good points.
It is true that he had selfless regrets, while she was at least partially selfish in her final plea. And it is, unfortunately, true that any system that judges souls would discard the reasons for a person to become dark. As Decim says, life is unfair and the temptations that people face are different.

The big question that remains is why they should face each other in such case. The other person becomes a factor that affects their behavior.

Anyways their system doesn't seem logical. It's like simply more unfairness in already unfair world. The systems of judgement from major religions seem more logcial in comparision.

MaahHeim said:
Well, I think it looked like a wasted life for him too.

I dunno, maybe because I know a bit about depression from personal experience, I find it difficult to empathise with him. Maybe that's becasue of the writing - they showed his decision as spontaneous and his situation as pretty good.
That's another shortcoming of this anime - the lack of context.
Modified by deadoptimist, Jan 30, 2015 7:26 PM
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:24 PM

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MaahHeim said:
willierocks said:


The guy in episode 3 was reincarnated and not sent to the void. Both him and the girl showed their pure hearts (not perfect of course ) and sent for reincarnation.


REALLY? Then almost everything I said was out of context. I didn't see they mentioning anything, but I thought there was a normal face and a demon one in the elevators, nope? Did they say that? I really didn't see



http://youtu.be/QnTGplXv8Gw?t=19m12s


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Jan 30, 2015 7:25 PM
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Well I didn't expect this episode to hit me this much. But it did. I saw many comments regarding the fact that Death Parade follows the cliche line of "What is wrong and what is not. Who is bad and who is good." but in the end let's be honest here, there's no such thing as parthenogennesis in anything. We just recreate what already exists.

Regarding this episode. Many say that Decim was wrong to sent Yousuke for reincarnation, or that the milf should have gone there.

Well what I got from this episode is:

Decim understood them both. But he had to make his judgement. Though he hugged them both at the end and told them "You did well" (which shows some kind of sympathy) he takes his role as an arbiter very seriously and he doesn't want to fail. I believe that after the first episode of Death Parade where he made a misjudge, Decim tries his best to do not let anything like that happen. But he lucks something. Some form of humanity. Whether it comes to his expressions or his way of viewing the situation before him. Hence why this whole thing kinda "hit"him as well. Regarding his words to them. Some said that this wouldn't be enough to them. Well in my eyes these were the perfect words. Because in the end of the day we all strive for this kind of words "You did well". Misaki who was deceived as she said and worked hard and Yousuke who felt as a burden and a parasite through his whole life actually were in need of these words.

Yousuke. I believe that with him Decim's decision was correct. Many say that he was worthless and he didn't deserve the reincarnation judgement. Yousuke was a kid with a trauma. His own mother didn't want him to be born. He was not needed by his own mother so this was the greatest betrayal in his whole life. Then his father tried to start over. But Yousuke was already traumatized and he actually wanted his own biological mother to recognize his existence. He fell in a pit of worthlessness without having any great dreams. The divorce and his mother's words actually ruined his life. Yeah no big deal huh? But all the things have the value we give them. And Yousuke couldn't let go of that one. He committed suicide because he believed that he was actually worthless. He couldn't accept his step-mother as his mom because he was too hang up to the past. And after hearing her words he felt even more as a scum than he already was. He had chronic depression and that is what led him to his suicide.

Misaki on the other hand suffered a lot. She as well gave value to the shit that she has gone through and she messed up as well. She choose to go to the arcade games place, to fuck with the guy. She hoped that she would end up having a happy family with him and that her decision to mess up wasn't wrong. In the end she ended up having 2 children with her former husband and while working as a host or a hooker she ended up having more in the way. She used her life and her children in order to gain money. She cared for her children, she loved them but she was also not caring about them because she let herself feel self-pity for her situation and until the end she wanted other to see that. To see what she has gone through and tell her that she tried hard. She neglected her children and as it seems the two elder in them where the ones who were actually taking care of the younger ones.

Decim's mistake. Decim "did" mess up. But not in the way you think. It wasn't like his decision and judgement was wrong in the end, but the way he decided to show the results of judgement. The fact that he had them get messed up during the game. Misaki hit Yousuke's head countless times after going berserk and blank. After getting her senses back she highly regretted what she did. At the end of the episode, after-credits, Kurokami No Onna actually broke down Decim's device which would put the other's through anxiety during the games. Because in fact Decim drown out the darkness that a person holds, a darkness which is not real because it was developed through out time and it is the thin line between any human being going berserk or not. We all have a berserk side inside of us. But it depends on how we led up our lives until now that it will come out. It is another thing to be forced to go out of your way, and another thing to be an ass as it was shown during the Death Billiards episode. So it was right to send her to the void, but it was wrong to base his judgement on her darkness which came after he actually forced her.

btw 5/5
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:27 PM

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konatachan80 said:
Based on what was shown, the meaning of "those" in that context do seem closer to
how she's treated them (and just about everyone else) so far.
In other words, the kids isn't really important, but what they can do/provide for her is.

Btw, his eye seemed to react to that sentence.


Still not sure. I'm sorry, I seem stubborn on this point and am not able to change idea so far. Also the complete quote was: *I'll do anything* - *Send me back to those children.*

http://i.imgur.com/WwulMya.png

I dunno why I seem to interpret this as the desperate attempt of a mother to get back to her childrem. :/

Though, there's a term for her *wolfmother* [ don't know if it's correct in english ], which kinda explains her extreme attitude, both when she slap her manager and when she's on the verge of killing the guy [ without justifying it, nonetheless ]
Once an alt always an alt! | ( ˇ෴ˇ ) | I ♥ Music
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:33 PM

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Very emotional episode. Went by fast.
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:44 PM
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Brynhildr said:
konatachan80 said:
Based on what was shown, the meaning of "those" in that context do seem closer to
how she's treated them (and just about everyone else) so far.
In other words, the kids isn't really important, but what they can do/provide for her is.

Btw, his eye seemed to react to that sentence.


Still not sure. I'm sorry, I seem stubborn on this point and am not able to change idea so far. Also the complete quote was: *I'll do anything* - *Send me back to those children.*

http://i.imgur.com/WwulMya.png

I dunno why I seem to interpret this as the desperate attempt of a mother to get back to her childrem. :/

Though, there's a term for her *wolfmother* [ don't know if it's correct in english ], which kinda explains her extreme attitude, both when she slap her manager and when she's on the verge of killing the guy [ without justifying it, nonetheless ]

I've encountered those that fit the description (wolfmother as you say) before, no idea of the
english term myself.

However, I've never encountered a mother defending or wanting to return to her children
distancing herself from them by calling them "those" (or equalient words in other languages).
If anything, that kind of mother would go to the extreme in calling them hers, even to the point
of only hers, no matter the situation.
Modified by konatachan80, Jan 30, 2015 7:51 PM
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:45 PM

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Jeez. In terms of right vs wrong, the mother did seem to have committed more "wrongs" against the world, where as Yousuke seemed to just bottle up his depression and then off'd himself, but I feel like the issues the mother went through were pretty serious.

I think had she not smashed Yousuke's face into that arcade, it'd be hard to actually judge her worthy of going to hell. I wonder what happens when one side doesn't visibly have more darkness? I mean surely it has to happen; it's not like all arbitrating situations have to necessarily have a good side and a bad side, and if they could guarantee that then they'd surely not need to do the game in the first place.
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:45 PM

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This episode had a lot of feels.

"I think I went to far"

YEAH. NO SHIT?!
"You either die an Ashita no Joe, or you live long enough to see yourself become a Naruto."
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:49 PM

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i would of sent both em to the void if you could....just sayin

props to the guy didn't expect him to embrace them
Modified by katsu044, Jan 30, 2015 7:56 PM
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:51 PM

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Landos said:
What are you people smoking to say Misaki should have been reincarnated? Have you not watched the episode and seen what had happened?

A sociopathic attempted murderer does not get to be reincarnated. If a women cheating on her husband and being a compulsive liar can land you in hell, then why are you people so surprised Misaki is going to hell?


Except she didn't cheat on her husband. On the contrary; she sacrificed herself. Yet the arbiter sent her to void because he made a wrong interpretation. He's far from being 'heavenly' at all.

I'm still not sure why he keeps telling people there is heaven and hell while there is void and reincarnation. Also what's void really like? do people suffer in it? I guess not.
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:54 PM

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that hug scene is so...emotional... :'(
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:56 PM

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sirflimflam said:
Jeez. In terms of right vs wrong, the mother did seem to have committed more "wrongs" against the world, where as Yousuke seemed to just bottle up his depression and then off'd himself, but I feel like the issues the mother went through were pretty serious.

I think had she not smashed Yousuke's face into that arcade, it'd be hard to actually judge her worthy of going to hell. I wonder what happens when one side doesn't visibly have more darkness? I mean surely it has to happen; it's not like all arbitrating situations have to necessarily have a good side and a bad side, and if they could guarantee that then they'd surely not need to do the game in the first place.


He went through his biological mom tell him she wished he didn't exist. That would leave long time mental issues for anyone. So he had his mental hell, and she had her hell manifest in the physical world. Both are serious issues.
Judgement can run on a very fickle line. Nobody lives a perfect life.
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:57 PM
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Vellamo said:
Landos said:
What are you people smoking to say Misaki should have been reincarnated? Have you not watched the episode and seen what had happened?

A sociopathic attempted murderer does not get to be reincarnated. If a women cheating on her husband and being a compulsive liar can land you in hell, then why are you people so surprised Misaki is going to hell?


Except she didn't cheat on her husband. On the contrary; she sacrificed herself. Yet the arbiter sent her to void because he made a wrong interpretation. He's far from being 'heavenly' at all.

No she didn't cheat. She was violent and finally attempted to murder her opponent.
In life she apparently used her children for fame and whatnot, so I guess they were also
sacrifices for her, although the older ones didn't seem too happy about it.
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 7:59 PM

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at first i thought yousuke is one of misaki children..but i was wrong
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:01 PM

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konatachan80 said:
Vellamo said:


Except she didn't cheat on her husband. On the contrary; she sacrificed herself. Yet the arbiter sent her to void because he made a wrong interpretation. He's far from being 'heavenly' at all.

No she didn't cheat. She was violent and finally attempted to murder her opponent.
In life she apparently used her children for fame and whatnot, so I guess they were also
sacrifices for her, although the older ones didn't seem too happy about it.


I was talking about the other woman from the first episode. :)
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:01 PM

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That bitch was entirely at fault for how she lived her life. First of all, she was divorced three times, which is likely all her fault, judging by how much of a finicky whore she is. She was abusive towards innocent people, and blamed other people for her own problems.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:04 PM

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willierocks said:
Almost anything can be interpreted as having a message. That message doesn't need to be new or old, large or small, just something of meaning. They also can illustrate the complexity of the human soul, a la ep.2. She loved him so much that she put on an act to sacrifice herself to save her husband from his grief. She'd rather him 100% hate her than keep him questioning for eternity. She fooled Decim, thus showing that while the arbiters get their memories and test them, they are no were close to omnipotent. And from next weeks teaser it seems we will get some character development, as it showed a few more members from the opening scene.


Yes almost anything can be read as having a message, but when it comes to story-telling medium there's also a factor of execution. Just looking at this episode, the script, the camera angles ,the shot compositions and the animation all I see it's that the director tries really hard to provoke my emotional respone rather than trying to deliever a message, or doing both at the same time. To me it's pretty tasteless frankly. If you've got the good ingredients you better be a good cook or everything is going to be wasted.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:04 PM

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Vellamo said:
konatachan80 said:

No she didn't cheat. She was violent and finally attempted to murder her opponent.
In life she apparently used her children for fame and whatnot, so I guess they were also
sacrifices for her, although the older ones didn't seem too happy about it.


I was talking about the other woman from the first episode. :)

You're wrong about that, it explicitly stated that she DID cheat.
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:04 PM
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Vellamo said:
konatachan80 said:

No she didn't cheat. She was violent and finally attempted to murder her opponent.
In life she apparently used her children for fame and whatnot, so I guess they were also
sacrifices for her, although the older ones didn't seem too happy about it.


I was talking about the other woman from the first episode.

Ah, that one did cheat..at least later on.
(she apparently had the engagement/weddingring in that scene).
Modified by konatachan80, Jan 30, 2015 8:08 PM
Have faith in the Lord Fifth, gain eternal life! When the Lord Fifth appears, who dares to cause strife!
-- Lord fifth
 
Jan 30, 2015 8:06 PM

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Oddyeus said:
That bitch was entirely at fault for how she lived her life. First of all, she was divorced three times, which is likely all her fault, judging by how much of a finicky whore she is. She was abusive towards innocent people, and blamed other people for her own problems.


Well, nobody is perfect.

 
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