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| Shocked! . Kuma Shocked! I decided to order the "Official Starting Guide" for Yurikuma. It went on sale in Japan on January 8th, which was three days after Episode 1 aired in Tokyo on Monday, January 5th. So every fan has had the opportunity to buy this book. Therefore, the information in it is not "spoilers". However, there is quite a lot which hasn't been mentioned in the series. Given that it's 80 pages long, there is a lot which will be left out of the TV series. While reading through it, I was totally shocked to learn that . . . |
okanaganJan 28, 2015 3:16 PM
surfboard_ said: After spending some time thinking of it, I realized that most people (and I'm including myself here) are giving too much thinking of "symbolism" and "metaphors" as if it is some sort of puzzle or video game. It also impresses me how all the conclusions and analysis we see around look somewhat distant from the anime each time I watch it. For me, this is just a light painting that hints over this and that, rather than being it. This is a situation where I embrace myself with the idea that what we see is more an optical process than an emotional experience. Takuan_Soho said: I know this ship has sailed, but I really think people need to stop thinking about sex and start thinking about love. Sex is an extension of love, depending on how you evaluate it. Takuan_Soho said: The honey pot is a metaphor for putting another person's happiness in front of your own. That is what love should be. Yeah, thats one facade of love. The only way to watch an Ikuhara show is to analyze the underlying messages. otherwise you end up confused as fuck. Agreed on Sex as extension of love. It is the ultimate point of intimacy for human being. And frankly even sex is not the only facade explored here, because Kureha's love has been lacking the sexual advances themselves, but she still is clearly gay - meaning it is more about with what sexuality she identifies with and less with the carnal act itself. It highlights her struggle in society that wants the likes of her to go "invisible". |
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HaXXspetten said: Just me or was this a lot better than the previous episodes? Like a lot better? it completely turned me around on the show, so far I was grumbling along mainly because Ikuni has great potential but there wasn't much I truly liked. The visuals were great but the rest irritated me somewhat; that's how repetition works, show people the same thing five times and change something around the 6th time and you will have their full attention. Episode three was quite good in my opinion because of how Yurizono carried the episode but this was what really sparked it for me |
| So if I get the message right, Ginko is Kureha's childhood friend, who Kureha keeps remembering in her flashback dialogues with her mother. I'd speculate, that Ginko confessed to Kureha when they were children. In response, Kureha rejected her and built the wall of separation between them. Apparently she now only accepts friendship and is scared of love for the same sex - being in denial of her sexuality. Hence the closed world of the Academy around her. However, it soon turns out that friendship she gets at school is too tasteless and invisible, while the true friendship that Kureha actually desires - the one she gets from Sumika - appears to be prohibited and unwanted. Therefore, the moment Sumika comes out and confesses by sharing the "fruit of fate", she gets cut from the closeted world of Kureha, similar to her lesbian mother and Ginko. Thus Kureha's caught in between the two worlds - in the court. Her id-emotions vote for yuri, while her super-ego-logic bounds her to stay "human". Her true desire is to be sentenced by her Sexy Ego - to come out. But for that to happen she has to realise that she confuses friendship with the feeling of actual love, driven by physical desire, and accept it. Similar to how Lulu confused love and hate. And Ginko, who decided to break the wall of separation and try to become at least friends with Kureha because of true feelings for her, unavoidably starts breaking the wall by physically seducing Kureha. That's why Kureha finally becomes able to commit a crime, shoot the gun, kill a bear, get her hands dirty, and accept her lesbian nature. It's still in progress of course, but she's on the right track. Besides, there are a lot of topics around the theme to cover, including but not limited to homophobia, denial, self-actualisation, lack of children due-to being homosexual, etc. |
soulelleJan 28, 2015 5:07 PM
soulelle said: So if I get the message right, Ginko is Kureha's childhood friend, who Kureha keeps remembering in her flashback dialogues with her mother. I'd speculate, that Ginko confessed to Kureha when they were children. In response, Kureha rejected her and built the wall of separation between them. Apparently she now only accepts friendship and is scared of love for the same sex - being in denial of her sexuality. Hence the closed world of the Academy around her. However, it soon turns out that friendship she gets at school is too tasteless and invisible, while the true friendship that Kureha actually desires - the one she gets from Sumika - appears to be prohibited and unwanted. Therefore, the moment Sumika comes out and confesses by sharing the "fruit of fate", she gets cut from the closeted world of Kureha, similar to her lesbian mother and Ginko. Thus Kureha's caught in between the two worlds - in the court. Her id-emotions vote for yuri, while her super-ego-logic bounds her to stay "human". Her true desire is to be sentenced by her Sexy Ego - to come out. But for that to happen she has to realise that she confuses friendship with the feeling of actual love, driven by physical desire, and accept it. Similar to how Lulu confused love and hate. And Ginko, who decided to break the wall of separation and try to become at least friends with Kureha because of true feelings for her, unavoidably starts breaking the wall by physically seducing Kureha. That's why Kureha finally becomes able to commit a crime, shoot the gun, kill a bear, get her hands dirty, and accept her lesbian nature. It's still in progress of course, but she's on the right track. Besides, there are a lot of topics around the theme to cover, including but not limited to homophobia, denial, self-actualisation, lack of children due-to being homosexual, etc. You know I like this explanation too. We have been talking all about symbolism while failing to realize that perception of the world matters. And Ikuhara loves to play with character's perception of the world(ex: Utena movie). I am actually thinking her mother got rejected by that teacher at school who would rather "hide being a bear" to retain her position. WE might get something akin to the famous car scene from Utena movie here too where Kureha has to break out of her world. |
AhenshihaelJan 28, 2015 5:49 PM
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| That is only assuming that what we see is not "warped" by the perceptions of the world the characters have. We do NOT know whether bears actually "EAT" people or that is what collective consciousness perceives in the wall OR if it is a part of how KUREHA perceives the world right now. We might have a situation akin to Vanishing of Ethan Carter in this. Children are NOT anti-gay stereotype. Especially in japan. The so called class-s relationship that is encouraged implies that girls SHOULD be intimate with each other before adolescence but should grow out of it. Ikuhara himself has been ranting about that concept and how twisted it is for ages already so it would not be surprising if he used it as inspiration for his world. |
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Takuan_Soho said: Not in the slightest. One can have sex without love, likewise one can have love without sex. Both are their own separate thing. Being "in love" (romance novels aside) doesn't make the sex better, and "having sex" (NTR hentai aside) doesn't lead to love. [...] No, it's pretty much the whole surface. Agape is not eros, just as love isn't sex. Honestly I'd like a futher clarification because it looks pretty much contraditory to this link you sent. And note that this book works from a Christian perspective over greek concepts. At least for me, both links clarifies what I've said: sex can be love as well Agape is one if its facades. Takuan_Soho said: 1) So, it's fun, why not enjoy ourselves as we wait for the next episode. 2) If there is any anime director who both uses and relies on symbolism and metaphors its this one, so to not do so takes away one of the great joys of his work. It is funny for a little extent, because at some point I think we're doing more thinking than actually seeing and thats not how I think Ikuhara even planned this whole deal (again, from my perspective as I just read a little about him). By the time I started to think about this I noticed that we're thinking of this show as something bigger than it actually feels for me, its not something I think is as rewarding as some might pretend to be, but at the same time I don't want to take the pedestal and announce that everyone should do this or that, but just declaring what I realized after reading reviews. Critics have their points but what matters most is what we think of it all. CookingPriest said: The only way to watch an Ikuhara show is to analyze the underlying messages. otherwise you end up confused as fuck. Thats actually right but for a little extent. But to go deeper and deeper into it is something reserved for the fans, considering theres "so much" to see, I think of it as Ikuhara's present for its followers, or simply a "fanservice". Besides everything I said, this is my favorite show of this season and one of the most interesting I've seen for some time, just like what you'd expect for someone that really tries to impress the audience all the time. CookingPriest said: The so called class-s relationship that is encouraged implies that girls SHOULD be intimate with each other before adolescence but should grow out of it. A similar thing happened in old Sparta, in which teenage males, before getting married, had sexual relations with veterans, where the young would be the passive of the relationship and once adult they had to get married or would be considered a "faggot". |
| If anyone's interested, I wrote this, which talks about a lot of the ideas in the show, and the bee in particular. I'll probably come back and post something in more detail later, because right now I'm really tired, but I just wanted to say that it's probably going to be about both lesbianism specifically and in-group/out-group stuff generally. I've heard that Ikuhara likes to use lesbianism and sexuality as go-to stand ins and metaphors for exploring somewhat broader ideas. And I've definitely noticed much broader social implications in this show regarding how we view others and how societal norms affect those views. As for an update on the bear metaphor, I've been thinking as well that the initial bears-as-lesbians metaphor isn't the whole thing, especially since we've now seen bears and bear relationships of multiple kinds. At this point, I do really think it's looking like an in-group/out-group thing, because all groups are influenced by societal norms in ways other than simply being the oppressed or the oppressor, even the groups those norms are oppressing. Beyond that I'm honestly not too sure anymore. Some things make it seem less likely that the bears are supposed to represent lesbianism, while other things make it go back the other way. I'll probably make more sense after I've had some sleep, but one thing I think we should be paying close attention to is who is providing us with what information in the show (notice who was narrating Lulu's backstory, and when he decides to interject and in what way). Even just with the eating/"eating" thing, it seems pretty clear that how things are being presented is very purposeful. Also, does anyone have any idea why Mirun isn't listed as a character on the show's page here on MAL? I wanted to add him to my favorites list, but he's not there to be added. :( |
| Great episode. It was fantastic. Especially the comedy parts where Mirun went in the boxes and Lulu kicked him off a cliff. :D What I don't understand though... After reading some posts I take it as if the majority of people here think that the "bear world" is free of homophobia and gender discrimmination. But how come then that Lulu only got visited by princes? And why would Mirun take Lulu's place as the successor? <- especially this shows that there is (or maybe was?) gender bias in the "bear world". Gender bias pretty much crosses over with homophobia. |
Pabilsag said: Being a bear doesn't really have much to do with being homo or hetero. Being a bear means to have a BEATIFUL freedom in expressing your BEAUTIFUL feelings, driven by your animal instincts and BEAUTIFUL emotions. If you get hungry, you go and kill someone to it, even if it's a crime. If you love someone, you go and bring them honey, even if it's a sin. If you hate someone, you go and sting them with your private bee, even if it hurts someone. Yuribear is just one subclass of bears - an open lesbian. If she likes a girl, she goes and confesses and tries to seduce, because, you know, her instincts are driving her to have sex with the beloved one.What I don't understand though... After reading some posts I take it as if the majority of people here think that the "bear world" is free of homophobia and gender discrimmination. The "total control rational human" is opposed to it. It's a pure world of restraints. You can't do that - it's bad, it's a sin. You can't do this either. And that over there, you absolutely must not do either. But then the only thing left is dull and invisible world, COOL and restrained. The moment you misbehave from the herd, you stand out and becomes visible. It might look all proper and straight (as in geometry, but pun intended), but love simply doesn't work here because there are no peculiarities for emotions to fall for. And the reality is, as usual, the duality of both. You need the right balance between the two (hence the scales for the court symbol). Because otherwise one side gets hurt more and you get KUMA SHOCK as a reaction. gao gao. One more thing to note, which I already mentioned here. If you really want to understand Ikuhara-sensei, please, read a short novel by Henry Hesse called "Demian". All three shows are heavily built upon the concepts introduced by Hesse in that book. Of course it's not the only influence on Ikuhara, but certainly one of the biggest. |
soulelleJan 29, 2015 8:57 AM
soulelle said: Pabilsag said: Being a bear doesn't really have much to do with being homo or hetero. Being a bear means to have a BEATIFUL freedom in expressing your BEAUTIFUL feelings, driven by your animal instincts and BEAUTIFUL emotions. If you get hungry, you go and kill someone to it, even if it's a crime. If you love someone, you go and bring them honey, even if it's a sin. If you hate someone, you go and sting them with your private bee, even if it hurts someone. Yuribear is just one subclass of bears - an open lesbian. If she likes a girl, she goes and confesses and tries to seduce, because, you know, her instincts are driving her to have sex with the beloved one.What I don't understand though... After reading some posts I take it as if the majority of people here think that the "bear world" is free of homophobia and gender discrimmination. The "total control rational human" is opposed to it. It's a pure world of restraints. You can't do that - it's bad, it's a sin. You can't do this either. And that over there, you absolutely must not do either. But then the only thing left is dull and invisible world, COOL and restrained. The moment you misbehave from the herd, you stand out and becomes visible. It might look all proper and straight (as in geometry, but pun intended), but love simply doesn't work here because there are no peculiarities for emotions to fall for. And the reality is, as usual, the duality of both. You need the right balance between the two (hence the scales for the court symbol). Because otherwise one side gets hurt more and you get KUMA SHOCK as a reaction. gao gao. One more thing to note, which I already mentioned here. If you really want to understand Ikuhara-sensei, please, read a short novel by Henry Hesse called "Demian". All three shows are heavily built upon the concepts introduced by Hesse in that book. Of course it's not the only influence on Ikuhara, but certainly one of the biggest. Yes, being a bear doesn't have to do with it. But the "human world" does have something to do with it, the society there is homophobic and moreover there is only one "right way", the society/Invisible Storm doesn't accept different views. That's why I said that the people here say the "bear world" isn't homophobic, I had the "human world" in the back of my head and compared them. :P But my major question was: If the "bear world" (opposed to the "human world") has total freedom of love and whatnot and is free of prejudices (which kinda originates from society or collective groups), then, how come that this episode played in a medieval-like setting (where prejudices were more predominate opposed to today) and how come that Mirun replaced Lulu as the successor of the kingdom? Most likely because he is a boy, no? That means they are not completely "free" in the "bear world" and limited through society just like in the "human world", or not? Or did I get something wrong or so? :P Btw, thanks for the Demian novel recommendation, I strangely never heard of it even though I live in Germany. o_O I will probably read it sometime as I really like Ikuhara's anime. |
PabilsagJan 29, 2015 12:11 PM
| Loving everyone's discussions on this thread. This episode was definitely my favorite so far. |
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| wow that was like nanami not saving the kitten not once, but a lot of times except it was not a cat this time, but a human-bear-being |
jasque said: wow that was like nanami not saving the kitten not once, but a lot of times except it was not a cat this time, but a human-bear-being Get out of my head! I was thinking of the same thing. |
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| A mini-synopsis of Episode 5 (which airs next Monday) has been posted here: http://yurikuma.jp/story.html It is three and a half lines long and it is in Japanese. Strangely, they didn't mention anything about this in the official Twitter account for the series. The normal procedure for most anime series is that they will send out a tweet just after they make any update to the official webpage. So... On the other hand, a tweet has just come out directly from Ikuhara himself. It is some lovely calligraphy which (I suspect) was done by him personally. Here it is:  Please click on the link below in case the image above failed to display properly (within a few seconds) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8hxFqKCAAE9eOS.jpg It is katakana. You read it from left to right. What it says is dezaiaa ("desire"). |
okanaganJan 29, 2015 7:31 PM
MusashiRose said: jasque said: wow that was like nanami not saving the kitten not once, but a lot of times except it was not a cat this time, but a human-bear-being Get out of my head! I was thinking of the same thing. sorry ;D I still didn't recover from the kitten-in-a-box loss, now I'll be traumatized again by the poor little-bear-prince-in-a-box death ;.; |
Takuan_Soho said: surfboard_ said: Honestly I'd like a futher clarification because it looks pretty much contraditory to this link you sent. And note that this book works from a Christian perspective over greek concepts. At least for me, both links clarifies what I've said: sex can be love as well Agape is one if its facades. Humm, I selected the link because it is the clearest, you can easily google for other sources. I liked the link because it was based on the writings of C.S. Lewis, same guy with did the Narnia series and the Space Trilogy, he was also a Professor at Oxford, expert in Neo-platonic philosophy, and extremely knowledgeable in both Greek and Latin Literature The trouble with equating "sex = love" is that there is so much to sex and so much to love that are exclusive from one another. If they were Venn diagrams there would be some intersection, just not that much. Love is selfless, sex is intimately selfish (there is nothing wrong with being selfish from time to time, but if one were always selfish, then they would be incapable of love). Sex is physical, Love is metaphysical. Two people can have the purest love without the hint of sexuality. This is not to say that two people with the purest love can't have sex, rather that the sex is irrelevant when it comes to Love. Sex without Love is Lust (the Greeks had a good distinction between Eros and Venus on this matter). Now can one have both Love and Sex? Absolutely, but neither needs the other. One can have Love without Sex, one can have Sex without Love. The funny thing is that I, far from being a moralist, am actually the opposite. I don't confuse the two things. I don't think that Sex w/ Love is the only proper way to have sex (which is the Christian ideal of course). In the end, thats just how you evaluate it. I think you're either neglecting the content on those links or didn't thought too much, but sex is also recognized as love under eros (which you also mention). "If they were Venn diagrams there would be some intersection, just not that much." Thats because, like I said from the beginning, sex is one extension of love, but not everything. |
billybob300c said: this episode alone got an A+ review on Anime News Network. I've seen A's and A-'s before, but rarely A+. I think bebop got A+ as well. |
| added the fourth most popular anime onto this site |
| Episode spinning smoothly with regard to the narrative, the plot is exposed in a manner so clear as to be clear immediately. Funny and nice the story made by Life Sexy. Drawings and stunning animations. At times the story was too funny. ramenshojo said: Shabadaaaaaaa! Shababdab dadaaaaa! That was the best part of the story! LOL |
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| Big improvement from previous weeks. Finally, we're getting some background that provides some emotional context for all the craziness. This show just might be worth sticking with. Life Sexy fascinates me. Shabadadu. |
ihateeveryone said: This is some intriguing shit yo My thoughts exactly. |
jasque said: MusashiRose said: Get out of my head! I was thinking of the same thing. sorry ;D I still didn't recover from the kitten-in-a-box loss, now I'll be traumatized again by the poor little-bear-prince-in-a-box death ;.; I honestly thought about the Nanami/kitten scene for YEARS and never recovered. For some reason this didn't bother me as much (maybe the more lighthearted nature?)... but it definitely gave me post traumatic stress. Oh Ikuhara, you bastard. <33 |
MusashiRoseJan 30, 2015 4:32 PM
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Pabilsag said: Yes, being a bear doesn't have to do with it. But the "human world" does have something to do with it, the society there is homophobic and moreover there is only one "right way", the society/Invisible Storm doesn't accept different views. That's why I said that the people here say the "bear world" isn't homophobic, I had the "human world" in the back of my head and compared them. :P I don't think 'homophobic' is really the best term to use here. It's a part of the game - sure, but I believe that a more general term like 'xenophobic' appears to be a better option, because what's being rejected is ANY instinct- or emotion-driven relationship. It's not really only about sex - even close friendship is not tolerated. Of course, in a world where there is no men (students - women, teachers - women, police - women, even road signs has women on it), in such a feminist utopia, intimate relationship between any two species does indeed automatically become homosexual. But my point is, they are not avoiding sex due-to being homophobic, it's the other way around - they technically become homophobic as a consequence of avoiding close relationships in general. In other words it's not about "how can you have sex with a person of the same gender", but it's about "how can you have sex at all? You crazy?" Pabilsag said: It's not about freedom of love and whatnot, it's about freedom of expressing one's feelings and instincts. It's exactly opposing the "human world" in that regard. "You want sex? Great, why wait - go & get it". "Hate that guy? Go & kill him - it's OK". "Are you a lesbian? Then go & f**k the girls - why wait?". It doesn't mean that such species can't unite in groups if they share common interests. But of course, this "bear world" at the same time is yet another exaggeration and utopia - there will always be conflictual interests between various species of the same kind, which with the freedom of expressing themselves and committing crimes would simply make them kill each other.But my major question was: If the "bear world" (opposed to the "human world") has total freedom of love and whatnot and is free of prejudices (which kinda originates from society or collective groups), then, how come that this episode played in a medieval-like setting (where prejudices were more predominate opposed to today) and how come that Mirun replaced Lulu as the successor of the kingdom? Most likely because he is a boy, no? That means they are not completely "free" in the "bear world" and limited through society just like in the "human world", or not? And that's kinda the thing. Too desire-driven - self-murderous. Too desire-limited - no sex and children. Pabilsag said: None of my friends in Germany know this book either - I guess it's not part of the standard school program. I learned about the novel accidentally while googling info on Ikuhara. It's a little hard to read at first, but it sure is a mind-opener, especially to the Ikuhara's worlds.Btw, thanks for the Demian novel recommendation, I strangely never heard of it even though I live in Germany. o_O I will probably read it sometime as I really like Ikuhara's anime. |
| I won't mention any spoilers about Episode 5 here. However, there is a character who will appear in Episode 5 who everybody might as well familiarize themselves with in advance of next week. This is somebody who has been visible in previous episodes as a background character. Like I said, there are no plot spoilers inside the "spoiler" tag here. I won't say what she will do in Episode 5. I'll just give you a basic description. - - - - - - - - - - As well, there's been lots of nice-looking amateur fan art re-tweeted by Ikuhara over the past few days. Check it out: https://twitter.com/ikuni_noise |
okanaganFeb 1, 2015 9:46 AM
| after watching Shabadadu episode 4, for now i'm giving it 8/10 rate. Let's see if it still deserves that rating on the future episodes. |
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soulelle said: Pabilsag said: Yes, being a bear doesn't have to do with it. But the "human world" does have something to do with it, the society there is homophobic and moreover there is only one "right way", the society/Invisible Storm doesn't accept different views. That's why I said that the people here say the "bear world" isn't homophobic, I had the "human world" in the back of my head and compared them. :P I don't think 'homophobic' is really the best term to use here. It's a part of the game - sure, but I believe that a more general term like 'xenophobic' appears to be a better option, because what's being rejected is ANY instinct- or emotion-driven relationship. It's not really only about sex - even close friendship is not tolerated. Of course, in a world where there is no men (students - women, teachers - women, police - women, even road signs has women on it), in such a feminist utopia, intimate relationship between any two species does indeed automatically become homosexual. But my point is, they are not avoiding sex due-to being homophobic, it's the other way around - they technically become homophobic as a consequence of avoiding close relationships in general. In other words it's not about "how can you have sex with a person of the same gender", but it's about "how can you have sex at all? You crazy?" Pabilsag said: It's not about freedom of love and whatnot, it's about freedom of expressing one's feelings and instincts. It's exactly opposing the "human world" in that regard. "You want sex? Great, why wait - go & get it". "Hate that guy? Go & kill him - it's OK". "Are you a lesbian? Then go & f**k the girls - why wait?". It doesn't mean that such species can't unite in groups if they share common interests. But of course, this "bear world" at the same time is yet another exaggeration and utopia - there will always be conflictual interests between various species of the same kind, which with the freedom of expressing themselves and committing crimes would simply make them kill each other.But my major question was: If the "bear world" (opposed to the "human world") has total freedom of love and whatnot and is free of prejudices (which kinda originates from society or collective groups), then, how come that this episode played in a medieval-like setting (where prejudices were more predominate opposed to today) and how come that Mirun replaced Lulu as the successor of the kingdom? Most likely because he is a boy, no? That means they are not completely "free" in the "bear world" and limited through society just like in the "human world", or not? And that's kinda the thing. Too desire-driven - self-murderous. Too desire-limited - no sex and children. Yes, I agree. Xenophobic, fear of the foreign, does fit better. I was kind of meaning the same by saying that in the "human world" there is only one "right way" and they don't accept different views. To the 2nd paragraph: But isn't it a contradiction if the "bear world" is all about "freedom of expressing one's feelings and instincts" yet they basically still have social pressure. The medieval-like setting with the kingdom and all alone shows this. There are still "rules" or norms in which the people in the kingdom must fit in. Lulu is a princess and they expect from her to dress like a princess, act like a princess and marry a "prince". The king, the queen, the prince, the maidens and everyone else must fit to their roles attached to them before they were even born. The child of a king and a queen will succeed his/her parents to the throne. This child would not become a servant or something. The ordinary folks are born as ordinary folks and the princes and princesses most likely won't lay an eye on them. I'm sure there are enough maidens who would want to dress in high-quality dresses or eat luxurious meals every day or get intimate with the king, queen, or whoever or slap whoever in the face. But they can't/don't because they are not in the position to, they were not born as "princesses" and they fear a penalty for "misbehavior". The kingdom/society expects them to be servants of the royal family. There exists this system of a kingdom which would fall apart if they would do everything what their instincts tell them. They are all trying to suppress their desires and instincts because they fear personal penatly (death? prison? bad reputation?) or want to preserve the system. If they wouldn't suppress most of their desires the "bear world" would be an absolute anarchy. It's just like in the "human world". The majority there tries to not "misbehave" either and wants to stay invisible, because they probably fear being kicked out of their school or fear losing their reputation. This pretty much turned into a book with the quotation, lol, but it's tedious to divide the paragraphs. :x |
PabilsagJan 31, 2015 9:27 AM
Takuan_Soho said: Everything is how one evaluates it, however in the end it doesn't mean that everyone evaluation is equal. Eros /= Sex. Eros can include a sexual element, but it isn't a requirement for Eros to exist. Plato wrote in the symposium that Eros is the appreciation of the beauty that resides in the person who is loved, thus it has a non-corporeal, indeed spiritual aspect to it. This is where the expression "platonic love" comes from. [...] Again, like I said from the beginning. No. Merely because they can intersect does not mean that one is the extension of the other. The vast majority of the times that love appears sex has nothing to do with it: the love of a parent for a child, the love between best friends, the love one can have for some transcendental entity, the love one can have for one's country, culture, or humanity in general. Likewise the vast majority of time that sex appears has nothing to do with love: Prostitution, pornography, lust, masturbation, bestiality, pedophila, rape. The internet probably wouldn't exist if sex was merely an extension of love. Love and sex arise from different planes of existence, one is physical the other one is metaphysical, and while they are not mutually exclusive, they are very very different things. Confusing the two is one of the great sources of human misery. Honestly, I'm making this my last post on the matter. Not only it has gone off the topic, but I think you're doing your best to misunderstand me (and I might have misunderstood you at some point). Since you mentioned Plato, I should say that I don't think his concept of eros is dogmatic, and I think that what you said is incomplete and debatable. Here we go: Regarding Eros in Symposium: "Eros is a seeker after beauty and truth, and thus after wisdom. Eros impels humanity to seek beauty, but the love of mind for mind and of soul for soul is more lasting than the physical side of Eros. Progression: LOVE of one physical body (beauty) LOVE of all physical bodies (abstract beauty) LOVE of beautiful activities LOVE of beautiful intellectual activities LOVE of absollute beauty." For Diotema, there are two kinds of love. One is regarding a heterosexual relation, which produces beauty by giving birth to children that share the beauty of their parents. The other is a homosexual relation, that give birth to wisdom and other virtues. You might relate them to Vulgar Eros and Heavenly Eros. This link gives a lot more depth to the matter, if you're interested. This link brings an audacious study of symbolism in Plato (something apparently unnaccepted in the academy) which analyses everything through a 12-interval scale (Pythagorean tuning), as the texts are divided in 12 parts as well. If you identify yourself as Ikuhara's "muh symbolism" fan, it might interest you. if anything, I bet that if Plato was alive nowadays he would be an avid BL reader. |
| For the past couple of days, the official Twitter account for Yurikuma has been suspended !!! If you go there, they just show a mostly-blank page which says Account suspended The profile you are trying to view has been suspended. To return to your home timeline, click here. What's going on? There are many other anime-related Twitter accounts that I routinely check, and they are all okay now. Also, I have been checking anime Twitter accounts frequently for years, and I never saw one suspended before. Normally, it's always here: https://twitter.com/yurikuma_anime This has left me in kuma-shock. |
okanagan said: For the past couple of days, the official Twitter account for Yurikuma has been suspended !!! If you go there, they just show a mostly-blank page which says Account suspended The profile you are trying to view has been suspended. To return to your home timeline, click here. What's going on? There are many other anime-related Twitter accounts that I routinely check, and they are all okay now. Also, I have been checking anime Twitter accounts frequently for years, and I never saw one suspended before. Normally, it's always here: https://twitter.com/yurikuma_anime This has left me in kuma-shock. Some trolltaku must have reported them for inappropriate content? It's a pretty divisive show after all, and there are some scenes that are certainly past the boundary of OK for Western standards. It will probably be sorted out by Monday. |
| it's sexy , shabadadu |
 |
| Takuan_soho said: in Canada the third season of Illya was banned for supposed pedophilia (and denounced by the PM) Right, the third Season of "Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya" Also known as: "Fate / kaleid liner Prisma ☆ Illya Zwei Hertz! " News item: (September 11, 2014) Prisma Illya Season 3 Preemptively Banned in 12 Countries http://www.animemaru.com/prisma-illya-season-3-preemptively-banned-in-12-countries/ The story does indeed include a quote of Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper. - - - - - - - - I don't know whether anybody here is a fan of "Project A-ko" (1986). If you are, you know that it has Yuri subtext. Some people very thoroughly edited out all of the hints of Yuri to make it "safe for kids". If you can get your hands on the original unedited version, it is a great early example of Yuri in anime, even though it is only a small part of the overall story. I won't spoil the plot for you. |
okanaganJan 31, 2015 8:10 PM
Prisma Illya Season 3 Preemptively Banned in 12 Countries "animemaru.com" is a troll/joke website, that article is most likely false.http://www.animemaru.com/prisma-illya-season-3-preemptively-banned-in-12-countries/ See: http://www.animemaru.com/about/ Edit: On topic: http://www.animemaru.com/deep-analysis-hidden-meanings-in-episode-1-of-yuri-kuma-arashi-you-may-have-missed-post-112/ |
MomonoJan 31, 2015 8:33 PM
VirtualStar said: Prisma Illya Season 3 Preemptively Banned in 12 Countries "animemaru.com" is a troll/joke website, that article is most likely false.http://www.animemaru.com/prisma-illya-season-3-preemptively-banned-in-12-countries/ See: http://www.animemaru.com/about/ I find that easier to believe than Stephen Harper name-dropping Sakura Trick. |
| Ok, a conclusion post. Takuan_Soho said: But then again correct me if I am wrong: you think that love can be enhanced by sex. I didn't meant that but now that I look back at what I said, I used the word "extension", sorry. Takuan_Soho said: Ah, see there is where we differ. My comments have nothing to say about hetero/homo love. For me they are equivalent. My distinction is purely on the love = sex dimension. For me love is about the "absolute beauty", it is eternal and non physical. Sex though is purely physical, and again I want to stress that I do not think that the physical, or in other contexts material, is evil. Far from it, I just consider it something different than love. I just mentioned hetero and homo (things that weren't strickly recognized when Plato was alive) because I thought it would be an easier way to figure out Plato's idea of beauty and actually relevant because thats one of the main things he stresses out in symposium (there are different views of what Eros is in symposium itself, but ultimately synthetized and better developed through the dialogues between Socrates and Diotima), specially because the greeks had a clear and different view towards the male figure (an admiration that went beyond the physical traits, while the female were seen as lustful creatures, as well a disfigured version of man). The absolute beauty we see in Symposium is represented by both physical relation and the own contemplation of beauty. At the same time, he places Eros not as a divinity, but a daimon (something not human but neither divine), and thats where both physical (vulgar) eros and heavenly comes into better definition (and thats how hetero and homossexual relationships makes even more sense in Plato: to give birth to children is one way to admire and perpetuate beauty, while a relationship between man gives birth to wisdom and related virtues, an "intellectual" beauty. Plato thought that love between males is the highest form of love and that sex with women is lustful and only for means of reproduction, and that only with men the Greek male could reach their full intellectual potential). Plato doesn't neglect sex, but points out at a superior contemplation that is born out of physical attraction. The last link I sent proposes a study of Plato through the musical perspective (more specifically the Pythagorean system) and concludes that Platonic love is a misunderstanding resulted by ignoring the symbolism in Plato (this is the moment where Ikuhara's fans pop out to look deeper into it) and that the same actually defended sex with morality. I hope that now everything has been properly cleared. |
surfboard_Jan 31, 2015 9:30 PM
| That's the sexy way. Shaba da doo. Just 45 minutes ago, director Ikuhara tweeted a beautiful calligraphy that (I surmise) he did personally. Here it is:  If the above image fails to display properly, please click on the link below: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8xCr9dCIAAxGx5.jpg The link to his original tweet is here: https://twitter.com/ikuni_noise/status/561897376613298176 What it says is, "Shaba da doo". A few minutes after Ikuhara sent out his tweet, some fan tweeted back in response, "This is sexy." (これがセクシー) - - - - - - - - - - - Some updates: As of this moment, the official Twitter account for Yurikuma is still suspended. Here is where it normally is: https://twitter.com/yurikuma_anime Here is the Twitter account for director Ikuhara: https://twitter.com/ikuni_noise Here are the individual Twitter accounts for the three main voice actresses: Ginko (Miho Arakawa) https://twitter.com/Miho_Aaaa Ruru (Yoshiko Ikuta) https://twitter.com/lunchpackgirl Kureha (Nozomi Yamane) https://twitter.com/ymnnzm An hour ago, Ikuhara put out a tweet advertising stuffed dolls of Ginko and Lulu. They cost 6000 Yen each (plus tax) in case you want one. They look like good dolls to me. However, it's unseemly for a legendary anime director like Ikuhara to be personally advertising common merchandise. What might be a bit more conventional would be if he were to "retweet" a tweet from the store. So I feel a bit sorry to see Ikuhara being in this position. As for the voice actresses, their Twitter accounts look very unusual because they lack the usual retweets from the official twitter account of a series in which they are currently appearing. Typically, there would be a lot of announcements about exactly when the series would be airing. Obviously, there are no such official tweets coming out at the moment. Of the three, Kureha's voice actress seems to be putting out the most Yurikuma-related stuff. Probably the contracts that they each have with their agencies would put strict limits on what kinds of tweets they can send out. There is absolutely no hint about what is behind the suspension of the official Twitter account. However, the fact that Ikuhara is starting to sell bears makes me suspect that this is more than a short-term problem. |
okanaganFeb 1, 2015 10:46 AM
| The only thing i can say is... shaba da doo. |
| Takuan_Soho said: I do know that hentai is illegal in Canada. Some other things may be illegal up here in Canada. However, erotic fiction about sexual relationships between women and bears is 100% okay, and even highly honored by our government: http://www.cbc.ca/books/2014/08/whats-with-all-the-buzz-about-bear-by-marian-engel.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Engel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Engel_Award http://books.google.ca/books/about/Bear.html?id=WPdyQlOrmSwC |
okanaganFeb 1, 2015 6:49 PM
| So now I see why Lulu is so gushy with Ginko. This episode made me like her so much more, especially the scene near the end. Her little brother was the cutest, I can't believe he survived so many deaths. O.o So she gives up kisses but not love (which I'm assuming is Ginko's; her love has since long gone). I'm wondering what it was that Ginko gave up. The new picture for the ending is so cute. But it makes me wonder: when will Kureha finally accept the two as her friends? From the looks of it, she's still adamant to be alone. |
| I really loved the storytelling they did. So dam sweet and cute! |
 |
Honey and bee...what do these thing symbol about...? Lulu doesn't want to give up "like", so she choose to give up "kiss", than, will Ginko and Kureha face similar situation in the future? After all they are not actually kiss in the op... |
| I'm not really sure what this could mean, or if it's just a reference, but I learned that "Mirun" is how the Japanese pronounce "Milne" (as in Alan Alexander (A.A.) Milne, the author of "Winnie the Pooh"). Yangbojian said: Honey and bee...what do these thing symbol about...? Why should we assume that someone can only love one other person? Also, as for the bee and the honey, if you're interested, I wrote this, which talks about those symbols and some other stuff in the episode. |
okanagan said: An hour ago, Ikuhara put out a tweet advertising stuffed dolls of Ginko and Lulu. They cost 6000 Yen each (plus tax) in case you want one. They look like good dolls to me. However, it's unseemly for a legendary anime director like Ikuhara to be personally advertising common merchandise. What might be a bit more conventional would be if he were to "retweet" a tweet from the store. So I feel a bit sorry to see Ikuhara being in this position. I saw the website selling them, but they don't ship outside Japan. After actually seeing them, I really want one. Would you happen to know if there's a way to get them outside of Japan? |
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