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What's up with all the sexist and homophobic tropes in anime?

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Dec 14, 2014 5:33 PM

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Men & women can only be portrayed in a certain way with some plot situations banned

Or

Men & Women portrayed however the creators intend and put in whatever situation the creators intend.

If you care for the bottom one more, you best stop throwing around the word "sexist" whenever there is a character or plot situation that you don't like.
 
Dec 14, 2014 5:36 PM

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MdDaniels said:
Men & Women portrayed however the creators intend and put in whatever situation the creators intend.

If you care for the bottom one more, you best stop throwing around the word "sexist" whenever there is a character or plot situation that you don't like.
This is the right way.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Dec 14, 2014 5:42 PM

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Red_Keys said:
Hey guys can you recommend me a gay character who isn't overly gay?

I'm not homophobic but ewwwww gayyy


Nico- said:
@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite
Salman bin Abdul Aziz said:
@Comic_Sans I hate to insult you on forums but you are just a troll so just go kill yourself already bitch
 
Dec 14, 2014 5:46 PM

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My wimins need to be stronk.
Don't bother if you don't know how special effects were done without computers.

 
Dec 14, 2014 5:56 PM

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Anime being sexist and homophobic? Oh, the humanity!

 
Dec 14, 2014 6:27 PM

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KokkoClaus said:
FloatsBoats said:
Fate/Stay Night is sexist so I get what you mean, it's disgusting imo.

The VN is hard to read. Shirou has to protect a servant who's probably a million times stronger than him. WTH?

It has nothing to do with gender, he just has a strong sense of justice.
 
Dec 14, 2014 6:41 PM

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deanzel said:
Anime being sexist and homophobic? Oh, the humanity!

The world is going to end now <.<
 
Dec 14, 2014 7:24 PM

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MdDaniels said:
Men & women can only be portrayed in a certain way with some plot situations banned

Or

Men & Women portrayed however the creators intend and put in whatever situation the creators intend.

If you care for the bottom one more, you best stop throwing around the word "sexist" whenever there is a character or plot situation that you don't like.
That's a retarded way of looking at things.

"I'm allowed to write whatever I want and you can't say bad things about it!!1!"

Fuck that. People are free to write whatever they please. I encourage it. But I'm also allowed to share my thoughts about it. Sorry to burst your protective and sheltered little bubble, but "because I'm allowed to" doesn't make you immune to criticism. If you put your ideas down on paper and share it with the world, I'll exercise that same exact freedom.
 
Dec 14, 2014 7:34 PM

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MdDaniels said:
Anime doesn't lack variety, western entertainment lacks variety because every female character has to be feminism approved, instead of however the creators want.
Too true. Anime is generally made by cishet men for cishet men, AKA, "the only gender/sexuality demographic not allowed to make content that appeals to itself." We can have queer fiction and feminist fiction, made by women and the LBTQetc. communities for women and LGBTQetc. communities, but cishet dudes are obligated to be inclusive. It's just like how anime conventions apparently have to accept and cater to Whoovians, Homestuckers, furries, sci-fi/fantasy fans, comic book freaders, bronies, gamers, and all kinds of others, but those other fandoms are allowed to have their own "pure" events.

I don't even see why feminists take such a huge issue with harem anime. Okay, yeah, there is some objectification and "male gaze" issues. And the plots and characters may be lacking, but that's hardly limited to harem anime, nor can those objections only be made by feminists. But for the most part, harem anime:

* Does not promote sexual assault or rape against women (males are too passive to do so, and females are often depicted as having sexual and romantic aggression and/or agency)
* Does not promote domestic abuse or other violence against women (males are more likely to be the victims of violence, which I'm fine with as "goes with the territory" thing)
* Often passes the Bechdel test, i.e. "contains at least two named female characters that have at least one conversation about something other than a man."

If I had to speculate, I can see objections to harem anime promoting "Pedophilia+," or the idea that postpubescent teenage females are attractive, and because it allows for male wish fulfillment -- the idea that some women might be willing to engage in heterosexual activity (or as some feminists call it, "rape") or be attracted to men who aren't high-status or don't meet some standard of attractiveness. And men who're getting vicarious sexual, romantic, and emotional satisfaction (the kinds you can't get from standard porn) from anime aren't going to be prostrating themselves to serve in the white knight beta-male army or donating money to feminist Kickstarters and Patreon pages in a vain effort to obtain female approval.
"You're encouraging the idea of personal gain without paying a price, working hard, or expending effort? Have you no shame? When you refuse to make sacrifices, others end up making them for you!" -- Medaka Kurokami
 
Dec 14, 2014 7:53 PM

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Do you expect comedy and moe anime to be serious?
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:01 PM

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UnoPuntoCinco said:
Do you expect comedy and moe anime to be serious?
Sometimes.
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:36 PM

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Oddyeus said:
KokkoClaus said:

The VN is hard to read. Shirou has to protect a servant who's probably a million times stronger than him. WTH?

It has nothing to do with gender, he just has a strong sense of justice.

So did Hitler.
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:37 PM

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FloatsBoats said:
Oddyeus said:

It has nothing to do with gender, he just has a strong sense of justice.

So did Hitler.


False equivalence.
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:41 PM

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PoeticJustice said:
FloatsBoats said:

So did Hitler.


False equivalence.

That's subjective.
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:43 PM

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FloatsBoats said:
PoeticJustice said:


False equivalence.

That's subjective.


No, I am an objective entity so...
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:44 PM

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AnimeSweden said:
This got me thinking.. Can anyone here give me the name of a character who is gay, but also not portrayed as "weak" or overly homosexual (hope you catch my drift) :)
Something along the lines of a gay Kirito.

Haven't actually seen the anime version of it yet, nor have I even finished the game yet, but Kanji from Persona 4 is a decent example of that.
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:45 PM

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PoeticJustice said:
FloatsBoats said:

That's subjective.


No, I am an objective entity so...

So was Hitler.
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:53 PM

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What, were you under the impression Japan was as non-traditional as this side of the lake? Please.
Anyone who doesn't hate anime hasn't watched enough anime.
- Anonymous
 
Dec 14, 2014 8:57 PM
Loli King~

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If anything, anime fans I've met are homophobic. I'm not directly saying anyone in this thread is, but I've seen and heard some questionable stuff.

Like, I'm a straight male who loves boobs.. but can watch Free without feeling uncomfortable.
 
Dec 14, 2014 9:11 PM
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furdlemygurdle said:
AnimeSweden said:
This got me thinking.. Can anyone here give me the name of a character who is gay, but also not portrayed as "weak" or overly homosexual (hope you catch my drift) :)
Something along the lines of a gay Kirito.

Haven't actually seen the anime version of it yet, nor have I even finished the game yet, but Kanji from Persona 4 is a decent example of that.


Kanji is weird. I think you can class him as a metrosexual. "Gay" in every way, except he likes women. This is coming from someone who watched the anime.
 
Dec 14, 2014 11:03 PM

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ITT: Same old pseudointellectual circlejerk on MAL all day errday
ITT: CD shitposters as well

Rokumi said:
You're thinking too hard.
"If you died, would anyone care? Would they really care? Maybe, they'd cry for a day. But, let's be honest no one would give a shit. They wouldn't. The few people that would feel obligated to go to your funeral would probably be annoyed and leave as early as possible. That's who you are. That's what you are. You are nothing to anyone. To everyone."
-Mr. Robot

"I can take another name, and build a new life.. But on the inside I'll always have that instinct, no matter how much I hate it. I'm yakuza through and through. Guile only gets you so far in this game. Remember that. You won't get another chance."
-Kiryu Kazuma
 
Dec 14, 2014 11:04 PM

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Nicoreos said:
ITT: Same old pseudointellectual circlejerk on MAL all day errday
ITT: CD shitposters as well

Rokumi said:
You're thinking too hard.
Yeah, thinking's for fags.
 
Dec 15, 2014 12:34 AM

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No it's not.
 
Dec 15, 2014 12:41 AM

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KokkoClaus said:
Gay people are nearly always portrayed as borderline rapists/pedophiles who have to fuck every man in a 2 mile radius.

People love traps, so this is not true
KokkoClaus said:

Women, especially moe characters, are often portrayed as psychologically weak (clumsiness, emotional dependence to males, emotional immaturity (tsundere), crybabies) and are often so sexualised it's ridiculous. Pantyshots, boobgrabs etc. are fine in an ecchi, but they don't belong in a serious show.


Lol come on kokko, where is the one about males too
ARE YOU EVEN TRYING
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:07 AM

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MdDaniels said:
baki502 said:


Its not about that, its about variety. Having only strong women is boring too, but anime girls in general are so often the same. Okay males kinda too. Actually scratch that, charactes in anime in generally suck. Its not just males and females, the good shows have both good male and female characters and the bad shows have bad male and female characters. On avg the female characters are a bit more uninspired tough, I think.


I see submissive wimpy men, I see submissive wimpy women, I see strong dominant men, I see strong dominant women. <- I see all that and more in Anime.

Anime doesn't lack variety, western entertainment lacks variety because every female character has to be feminism approved, instead of however the creators want.


Yes but in what numbers? From all the anime I watch this season there is like one or two interesting female character. The others are all pretty bland.
Its not even about feminism. I hate feminism. It was a good thing once but its become a monster now. But I like good characters. And anime doesnt have many good characters, especially female. And its not because they arent strong or anything of the sorts, I dont care, they just dont feel interesting.

Most noteworthy example has to be Shingeki no Bahamut this season. I bloody love the show and Favaro and Kaisar ar excellent characters but god the female main (I didnt even remember her name) is bland. Ok she has some background I guess as to why she is like that (spoiler: she is mentally 5), so that is part of the reason, but still she is so uninteresting. There are better ones in that show like Jeanne d'Arc tough.

All in all on avg anime characters are generally bland and uninspired, and female ones kinf of even a bit more so. Or my standards are just too high.
Modified by baki502, Dec 15, 2014 1:11 AM
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:54 AM
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You guys can't really be happy with something for once, can you?

If there's a female character with weaknesses, it's a sexist anime. If it's a female character without weaknesses, it's an unrealistic Mary Sue.
 
Dec 15, 2014 2:10 AM

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Nicoreos said:
ITT: Same old pseudointellectual circlejerk on MAL all day errday
ITT: CD shitposters as well

Rokumi said:
You're thinking too hard.
This post triggers me.
Reported
Don't bother if you don't know how special effects were done without computers.

 
Dec 15, 2014 3:05 AM

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Red_Keys said:
MdDaniels said:
Men & women can only be portrayed in a certain way with some plot situations banned

Or

Men & Women portrayed however the creators intend and put in whatever situation the creators intend.

If you care for the bottom one more, you best stop throwing around the word "sexist" whenever there is a character or plot situation that you don't like.
That's a retarded way of looking at things.

"I'm allowed to write whatever I want and you can't say bad things about it!!1!"

Fuck that. People are free to write whatever they please. I encourage it. But I'm also allowed to share my thoughts about it. Sorry to burst your protective and sheltered little bubble, but "because I'm allowed to" doesn't make you immune to criticism. If you put your ideas down on paper and share it with the world, I'll exercise that same exact freedom.


Saying something is "sexist" is not constructive criticism, everyone seems to have a different definition of sexism, making it very subjective. If you don't like something, just say you don't like it and say why, instead of throwing authoritarian blanket terms around like "sexism and homophobic"

It is ok to criticize, but do so constructively and properly explain your ultimately subjective point of view, instead of throwing around words like "sexist, racism" and all the other isms, ists and phobias.

Anyway, if you complain about how female characters are portrayed and the situations they are put in, you're ultimately going to see less diverse female character because creators can no longer create and write whatever they want through fear of having some shitty label thrown at them, simple really.
 
Dec 15, 2014 3:18 AM

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I tried to find something sexualized in Touko. She's a hot character who did nothing remotely sexy in the series.




I couldn't think of anything. 10/10
 
Dec 15, 2014 3:19 AM
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KokkoClaus said:
Gay people are nearly always portrayed as borderline rapists/pedophiles who have to fuck every man in a 2 mile radius.


How true is this? I can understand if you said they were used for comedic purposes mostly, but this is something else entirely.
 
Dec 15, 2014 3:23 AM

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skudoops said:
KokkoClaus said:
Gay people are nearly always portrayed as borderline rapists/pedophiles who have to fuck every man in a 2 mile radius.


How true is this? I can understand if you said they were used for comedic purposes mostly, but this is something else entirely.
In love stage there's like homo rape as the first "romantic" encounter.
 
Dec 15, 2014 3:24 AM

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skudoops said:
KokkoClaus said:
Gay people are nearly always portrayed as borderline rapists/pedophiles who have to fuck every man in a 2 mile radius.


How true is this? I can understand if you said they were used for comedic purposes mostly, but this is something else entirely.


Gay characters are portrayed as extremely promiscuous and flamboyant? ge i wonder why that is.
 
Dec 15, 2014 3:26 AM

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Also I thought of a homo character who doesn't have the tendency to fuck every man within a 2 mile radius or emphasizes his sexuality in an incredibly annoying manner.


Shion from No. 6

 
Dec 15, 2014 3:32 AM
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VitaminCaim said:
skudoops said:


How true is this? I can understand if you said they were used for comedic purposes mostly, but this is something else entirely.
In love stage there's like homo rape as the first "romantic" encounter.


I dunno what that is, but the last few shows with a gay character (that I remember at least) all of them were pretty normal or used for comedic purposes. Akame (Comedic and Normal), Macross Frontier (Normal), Gankutsuou (normal), Shinsekai Yori (normal, but might not count), Revolutionary Girl (normal), dude from mirai nikki (normal) and whatever else I may be able to remember in a while.
Modified by GD1551, Dec 15, 2014 3:56 AM
 
Dec 15, 2014 3:50 AM

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KokkoClaus said:
FloatsBoats said:
Fate/Stay Night is sexist so I get what you mean, it's disgusting imo.

The VN is hard to read. Shirou has to protect a servant who's probably a million times stronger than him. WTH?
Oh jeez this silly argument. The woman are ones that end up accomplishing most of the problem that Shirou deals with anyway so idk why ppl bring this up.
 
Dec 15, 2014 12:10 PM

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MdDaniels said:
Saying something is "sexist" is not constructive criticism, everyone seems to have a different definition of sexism, making it very subjective.
No, the definition of sexism is pretty straight forward.

MdDaniels said:
If you don't like something, just say you don't like it and say why, instead of throwing authoritarian blanket terms around like "sexism and homophobic"
I don't like things that are sexist and homophobic. Therefore I don't like anime that are sexist and homophobic.

I'm not really sure what your problem is with these words. They're not hard concepts and are readily observable.

MdDaniels said:
It is ok to criticize, but do so constructively and properly explain your ultimately subjective point of view, instead of throwing around words like "sexist, racism" and all the other isms, ists and phobias.
"It's not constructive criticism" doesn't even apply, because first off, constructive criticism is meant to be a method of improving things. My comments on a Japanese made anime that is already finished production and airing on television are not going to be "constructive", no matter how much you approve of them. And second off, yes, pointing out that something is sexist or homophobic can be constructive. Why wouldn't it be? I really don't even know what you're talking about.

MdDaniels said:
Anyway, if you complain about how female characters are portrayed and the situations they are put in, you're ultimately going to see less diverse female character because creators can no longer create and write whatever they want through fear of having some shitty label thrown at them, simple really.
If an author is so insecure about their own ability to tell a story the way they want it, then they shouldn't be writing in the first place.

Besides, that logic works for any criticism of anything ever. And speaking of blanket statements, "less diversity" in this context doesn't even mean anything. "Less diversity" of shitty stories is a good thing. "Less diversity" of gang violence is a good thing. "Less diversity" of getting stabbed in your eyeballs is a good thing. "Less diversity" of female (or male, cause you know, sexism isn't just women) characters who are written shitty is a good thing. Your argument is dumb.
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:07 PM

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What society lacks is empathy.
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:16 PM

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me no likey political Correctness, I remember there being an argument about whether Alluka from HxH is a girl or boy and whether you should refer to him as him or her
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:20 PM

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The word sexism is used very subjectively, and everyone seems to have a different opinion on what is sexist and what isn't, basically it has been made about as meaningless and empty as saying "I don't like that"

"I don't like things that are sexist and homophobic. Therefore I don't like anime that are sexist and homophobic."

Yeah, as I just explained you're basically saying nothing at all because those words have been taken and applied to anything someone doesn't like, like with some people saying that "men defending women is sexist" and "Innocent and cute women? sexist!"

"It's not constructive criticism" doesn't even apply, because first off, constructive criticism is meant to be a method of improving things. My comments on a Japanese made anime that is already finished production and airing on television are not going to be "constructive", no matter how much you approve of them. And second off, yes, pointing out that something is sexist or homophobic can be constructive. Why wouldn't it be? I really don't even know what you're talking about."

Explain your point constructively, flesh out what you're trying to say. Stop throwing around words like sexism, racism, homophobia etc to explain something you actually just don't like.

Authors should be allowed to tell whatever story they envision.

"Besides, that logic works for any criticism of anything ever. And speaking of blanket statements, "less diversity" in this context doesn't even mean anything. "Less diversity" of shitty stories is a good thing. "Less diversity" of gang violence is a good thing. "Less diversity" of getting stabbed in your eyeballs is a good thing. "Less diversity" of female (or male, cause you know, sexism isn't just women) characters who are written shitty is a good thing. Your argument is dumb."

One big subjective rant.

Oh, and stereotypes exist for a reason.
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:30 PM

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Killaclown said:
me no likey political Correctness, I remember there being an argument about whether Alluka from HxH is a girl or boy and whether you should refer to him as him or her



It's her, since she identifies as a girl. It's not that hard.
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:31 PM

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KokkoClaus said:
Stereotypes stem from a lack of empathy, i.e. understanding.


A stereotype is a common trait shared between a group, nothing wrong with highlighting that.
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:33 PM

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ApplePhi said:
Killaclown said:
me no likey political Correctness, I remember there being an argument about whether Alluka from HxH is a girl or boy and whether you should refer to him as him or her



It's her, since she identifies as a girl. It's not that hard.
I disagree (that would be part of the political correctness)
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:35 PM

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Killaclown said:
ApplePhi said:



It's her, since she identifies as a girl. It's not that hard.
I disagree (that would be part of the political correctness)


Maybe, but if you wouldn't have know her sex was male you'd call her female just like Killua and herself. I don't know, I know quite a few transgenders; it's not a lot of extra work to refer them with another pronoun if they want to. It makes them happy.

But hey, to each their own opinion right? We're just talking about fictional characters in this case.

Though, when people ask me to use ne/buns/ etcetera pronouns I can't take them serious.
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:37 PM

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ApplePhi said:
Killaclown said:
me no likey political Correctness, I remember there being an argument about whether Alluka from HxH is a girl or boy and whether you should refer to him as him or her



It's her, since she identifies as a girl. It's not that hard.

+1 There's nothing complicated about this. Is there really an "opinion" to what her gender is? wtf

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

watch nodame cantabile

recommend me anything!
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:44 PM

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mayukachan said:
ApplePhi said:



It's her, since she identifies as a girl. It's not that hard.

+1 There's nothing complicated about this. Is there really an "opinion" to what her gender is? wtf
lol well the "opinion" would be used more for calling him a girl if anything, since he was born a boy and AFAIK (assume) still has the boy parts.

@apple- yeah it being a fictional character makes it easier since you don't have to worry about the persons feelings lol
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:48 PM

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ApplePhi said:
Killaclown said:
me no likey political Correctness, I remember there being an argument about whether Alluka from HxH is a girl or boy and whether you should refer to him as him or her



It's her, since she identifies as a girl. It's not that hard.


No straight man or woman will look at a trans person, knowing who and what they are, and feel any attraction to them.

So yeah, it is a "she"

Or simply a shemale.
 
Dec 15, 2014 1:55 PM

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MdDaniels said:
ApplePhi said:



It's her, since she identifies as a girl. It's not that hard.


No straight man or woman will look at a trans person, knowing who and what they are, and feel any attraction to them.

So yeah, it is a "she"

Or simply a shemale.
1st- people are into weird things my friend so I wouldn't say that.

2nd- no- hes a guy.... pretty sure a DNA test would prove it
 
Dec 15, 2014 2:02 PM

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Killaclown said:
MdDaniels said:


No straight man or woman will look at a trans person, knowing who and what they are, and feel any attraction to them.

So yeah, it is a "she"

Or simply a shemale.
1st- people are into weird things my friend so I wouldn't say that.

2nd- no- hes a guy.... pretty sure a DNA test would prove it


Yeah but they are probably in the minority, people who go clubbing at night probably wouldn't be too thrilled if they came back home with someone pretending to female/male etc.

And yeah but to try and meet them halfway it would best if they didn't refer to themselves as the sex they were simply not born as.
Modified by MdDaniels, Dec 15, 2014 2:09 PM
 
Dec 15, 2014 2:23 PM

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We're all equally backwards people, we just go backwards in different directions.

There I said it.
 
Dec 15, 2014 2:27 PM

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fst said:
We're all equally backwards people, we just go backwards in different directions.

There I said it.

You have a point, but it's not everyone. Extremists from both sides are more similar to each other than to others on the same side of the spectrum. Case in point: KKK, Tumblr
 
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