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What's up with all the sexist and homophobic tropes in anime?

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Dec 15, 2014 3:00 PM
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there is no sexism or anti-gayness in anime. It's all just something you fabricated.
 
Dec 15, 2014 3:14 PM

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That is certainly a bad case, but my point still stands. Society lacks empathy. Human beings lack empathy. If we could understand each other, nothing of this shit would happen. If only we'd be newtypes.....
 
Dec 15, 2014 6:53 PM

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MdDaniels said:
The word sexism is used very subjectively, and everyone seems to have a different opinion on what is sexist and what isn't, basically it has been made about as meaningless and empty as saying "I don't like that"
No, the definition of sexism is pretty straight forward.

If people are using it wrong, that's their fault. Not the word's. You don't make sense.

MdDaniels said:
Yeah, as I just explained you're basically saying nothing at all because those words have been taken and applied to anything someone doesn't like, like with some people saying that "men defending women is sexist" and "Innocent and cute women? sexist!"
No, those words have been taken and applied to situations which fit the definitions of those words.

You haven't explained anything. You just said "those words don't mean anything", which is factually incorrect. Your argument is nonsense.

MdDaniels said:
Explain your point constructively, flesh out what you're trying to say. Stop throwing around words like sexism, racism, homophobia etc to explain something you actually just don't like.
I think you might be slow.

MdDaniels said:
Authors should be allowed to tell whatever story they envision.
Nobody is arguing that.

MdDaniels said:
One big subjective rant.
Yeah, you're definitely slow.

MdDaniels said:
Oh, and stereotypes exist for a reason.
And your argument is retarded for a reason.
 
Dec 15, 2014 7:01 PM

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^
SHOTS FIRED!!!
 
Dec 15, 2014 7:13 PM

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KokkoClaus said:
What society lacks is empathy.


Well, they've stolen it from me...
 
Dec 15, 2014 7:53 PM

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I want to know why should it matter if it's "sexist" or "homophobic" though.




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Dec 15, 2014 7:57 PM

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Immahnoob said:
I want to know why should it matter if it's "sexist" or "homophobic" though.


It shouldn't
 
Dec 15, 2014 7:58 PM

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Immahnoob said:
I want to know why should it matter if it's "sexist" or "homophobic" though.
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.
 
Dec 15, 2014 8:07 PM

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Red_Keys said:
Immahnoob said:
I want to know why should it matter if it's "sexist" or "homophobic" though.
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.


Isn't that you trying to censor someone else according to your views and to what you are opposed to? What you find offensive isn't necessarily what everyone else finds offensive. I could argue that I find what you are saying is offensive because it imposes your views onto others, and it hinders freedom of expression.

It's all just as offensive as, burning a baby in game of thrones, children participating in a battle royal in Hunger Games, etc.
Anything and everything can be viewed as offensive, so censoring one thing due to someone's tastes would mean everything should be censored.

In the end writing is just an art form, along with drawing, acting, perfoming ect. None of which should be censored whatsoever
Modified by KamiCity, Dec 15, 2014 8:12 PM
 
Dec 15, 2014 8:09 PM

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Red_Keys said:
Immahnoob said:
I want to know why should it matter if it's "sexist" or "homophobic" though.
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.


Not really. My values concerning human beings and drawings are different. Much different. Anime characters are objects while human beings are not. Anime and fiction in general might create an illusion of "being real" and immersion but in the back of my head the thought that they are nothing but drawings always remains at all times.

Not everyone is like me, but its certainly a healthy attitude to have towards fiction.
Otherwise you might end up correlating real life to fiction an in no time we are at a point where we think what people do in GTA relates to their ideals and values in RL.
Never correlate your or other peoples values in fiction to real life.
 
Dec 15, 2014 8:10 PM

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Kamipriest said:
Red_Keys said:
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.


Isn't that you trying to censor someone else according to your views and to what you are opposed to? What you find offensive isn't necessarily what everyone else finds offensive. I could argue that I find what you are saying is offensive because it imposes your views onto others, and it hinders freedom of expression.
Disliking something isn't censorship, wtf are you talking about?

If you find what I'm saying "offensive", then argue me about it.

Imposing my views onto others hinders freedom of expression? As in, expressing myself hinders the freedom of expression? Holy shit, that's some "War = Peace" straight from 1984 shit. Jesus.
 
Dec 15, 2014 8:14 PM

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Red_Keys said:
Kamipriest said:


Isn't that you trying to censor someone else according to your views and to what you are opposed to? What you find offensive isn't necessarily what everyone else finds offensive. I could argue that I find what you are saying is offensive because it imposes your views onto others, and it hinders freedom of expression.
Disliking something isn't censorship, wtf are you talking about?

If you find what I'm saying "offensive", then argue me about it.

Imposing my views onto others hinders freedom of expression? As in, expressing myself hinders the freedom of expression? Holy shit, that's some "War = Peace" straight from 1984 shit. Jesus.


Did you not read the rest of the post? Isn't that the point I just made? That anything and everything could be viewed as offensive.

Oh and that's a Red Herring btw, that's the second logical fallacy you commit.
 
Dec 15, 2014 8:16 PM

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Kamipriest said:
Red_Keys said:
Disliking something isn't censorship, wtf are you talking about?

If you find what I'm saying "offensive", then argue me about it.

Imposing my views onto others hinders freedom of expression? As in, expressing myself hinders the freedom of expression? Holy shit, that's some "War = Peace" straight from 1984 shit. Jesus.


Did you not read the rest of the post? Isn't that the point I just made? That anything and everything could be viewed as offensive.
Viewing something as offensive doesn't mean censorship. Hence me asking:

Red_Keys said:
wtf are you talking about?


baki502 said:
Not really. My values concerning human beings and drawings are different. Much different. Anime characters are objects while human beings are not. Anime and fiction in general might create an illusion of "being real" and immersion but in the back of my head the thought that they are nothing but drawings always remains at all times.

Not everyone is like me, but its certainly a healthy attitude to have towards fiction.
Otherwise you might end up correlating real life to fiction an in no time we are at a point where we think what people do in GTA relates to their ideals and values in RL.
Never correlate your or other peoples values in fiction to real life.
Long story short: I disagree.

I've written a tl;dr post about this exact topic in the past. I might try to find it and link it.
 
Dec 15, 2014 8:19 PM

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baki502 said:
Red_Keys said:
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.


Not really. My values concerning human beings and drawings are different. Much different. Anime characters are objects while human beings are not. Anime and fiction in general might create an illusion of "being real" and immersion but in the back of my head the thought that they are nothing but drawings always remains at all times.

Not everyone is like me, but its certainly a healthy attitude to have towards fiction.
Otherwise you might end up correlating real life to fiction an in no time we are at a point where we think what people do in GTA relates to their ideals and values in RL.
Never correlate your or other peoples values in fiction to real life.

Exactly. I don't have to be a pedophile for Lolita to be my favorite piece of lit, thank God.
 
Dec 15, 2014 8:27 PM

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Red_Keys said:
Kamipriest said:


Did you not read the rest of the post? Isn't that the point I just made? That anything and everything could be viewed as offensive.
Viewing something as offensive doesn't mean censorship. Hence me asking:

Red_Keys said:
wtf are you talking about?


baki502 said:
Not really. My values concerning human beings and drawings are different. Much different. Anime characters are objects while human beings are not. Anime and fiction in general might create an illusion of "being real" and immersion but in the back of my head the thought that they are nothing but drawings always remains at all times.

Not everyone is like me, but its certainly a healthy attitude to have towards fiction.
Otherwise you might end up correlating real life to fiction an in no time we are at a point where we think what people do in GTA relates to their ideals and values in RL.
Never correlate your or other peoples values in fiction to real life.
Long story short: I disagree.

I've written a tl;dr post about this exact topic in the past. I might try to find it and link it.


That was the point, you are free to disagree me as much as I am with you. I wasn't directly talking to you as much as I was making a general statement.

Look at it as me saying: I get what you are saying and it is fine for you to feel that way but why should it matter? There is plenty of content out there that you might not find offensive, so it shouldn't be a problem. Unless you are trying to change something about the media. If however, you are aiming to change the media, now it becomes an issue of you trying to censor something. Which is when my point becomes relevant.
You are free to express yourself as much as you like, but once you start trying to push your views on to others, that's when it becomes a problem. Especially when it comes to art.

long story short: Debates about opinions are pointless
 
Dec 16, 2014 2:51 AM

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Falling back on the definition is what feminists do, you're taking words like sexist and applying to anything you feel like applying it to.


"You haven't explained anything. You just said "those words don't mean anything", which is factually incorrect. Your argument is nonsense."

Nope, they have been taken and applied to situations you think fit the definition of those words.

"MdDaniels said:
Explain your point constructively, flesh out what you're trying to say. Stop throwing around words like sexism, racism, homophobia etc to explain something you actually just don't like.I think you might be slow.

It's quite simply really, stop using those buzzwords to describe anything you don't like, since everyone has a different opinion on what those words can actually be applied to.

MdDaniels said:
Authors should be allowed to tell whatever story they envision.Nobody is arguing that.

When you use words like sexist, racist and homophobic you're calling something offensive, but you're not really explaining why it is offensive and you're basically just saying it is offensive because it is offensive, and the people who feign outrage at shit like that usually have the end goal of making the author/creators self-censor.

MdDaniels said:
One big subjective rant.Yeah, you're definitely slow.

Apparently still too fast for you.

MdDaniels said:
Oh, and stereotypes exist for a reason.And your argument is retarded for a reason."

Dat denial
Modified by MdDaniels, Dec 16, 2014 2:56 AM
 
Dec 16, 2014 3:01 AM
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It's a reflection of Japanese society, which is pretty sexist and homophobic.
 
Dec 16, 2014 3:04 AM
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MrsKiryuin said:
It's a reflection of Japanese society, which is pretty sexist and homophobic.


compare in some prefesctures we do not ban gay marriage its looked uopn oddly yes but but nooot banned out right unlike quite a few us states
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
 
Dec 16, 2014 3:09 AM

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MrsKiryuin said:
It's a reflection of Japanese society, which is pretty sexist and homophobic.


Why are you watching all that "sexist" entertainment?
 
Dec 16, 2014 3:32 AM
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MdDaniels said:
MrsKiryuin said:
It's a reflection of Japanese society, which is pretty sexist and homophobic.


Why are you watching all that "sexist" entertainment?


I avoid misogynistic and homophobic anime to the best of my ability, but I'm forced to ignore it when it pops up most of the time because if I stopped consuming problematic media, I'd have about 3 titles to choose from.
 
Dec 16, 2014 4:18 AM

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I really don't care if something is sexist or homophobic or even racist. Like I care, not my problem, not my butthurt.
 
Dec 16, 2014 6:03 AM

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Red_Keys said:
Immahnoob said:
I want to know why should it matter if it's "sexist" or "homophobic" though.
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.
When did I ask you anything of your tastes?

The question is "Why does it matter?". Your tastes are irrelevant. Is this glorification, expression and perpetuation of real life ideals and values in Anime a problem to the viewer other than "I dislike it"? Are these viewers a majority?




Autocrat said:
Hitler was good, objectively.
 
Dec 16, 2014 7:48 AM

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Zergneedsfood said:
FGAU1912 said:
compare in some prefesctures we do not ban gay marriage its looked uopn oddly yes but but nooot banned out right unlike quite a few us states
Japan is actually very tolerant of homosexuality, relatively speaking.

There are only 15 out of 50 US states left where same-sex marriage is banned, out of those 15 the ban has already been overturned in 5 so it will be legalized there in the future as well.
 
Dec 16, 2014 8:48 AM
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RyanEnsign said:
Zergneedsfood said:
Japan is actually very tolerant of homosexuality, relatively speaking.

There are only 15 out of 50 US states left where same-sex marriage is banned, out of those 15 the ban has already been overturned in 5 so it will be legalized there in the future as well.


its still banned unlike in any prefecture in japan it looked down upon but not banned
"If you tremble with indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one
For the Union makes us strong
 
Dec 17, 2014 5:55 PM

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Topic Cleaned
All racist posts have been removed, all off topic posts have been removed, and all reaction images. Please stay on topic...

Where there is no imagination there is no horror. || Arthur Conan Doyle || Happy Halloween!
 
Dec 17, 2014 6:34 PM

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RedRoseFring said:
SightScreen said:


Kaworu from Evanjellyon?


Kaworu almost raped Shinji in the bath. He doesn't qualify.

Killua Zoldyck is the correct answer.
Wait... That wasn't rape... I hate rape being used as a plot device in general but there's no way that's rape
 
Dec 17, 2014 6:35 PM

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Suzune-chan said:
Topic Cleaned
All racist posts have been removed, all off topic posts have been removed, and all reaction images. Please stay on topic...
Why were there even racist posts? They have nothing to do with the topic itself.
 
Dec 17, 2014 7:13 PM

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VitaminCaim said:
RedRoseFring said:


Kaworu almost raped Shinji in the bath. He doesn't qualify.

Killua Zoldyck is the correct answer.
Wait... That wasn't rape... I hate rape being used as a plot device in general but there's no way that's rape


It was obviously 2deep4u Just like it was too deep for Shinji
"Let Justice Be Done!"

My Theme
I conclude that this theme is in fact good!
 
Dec 17, 2014 8:32 PM

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I believe people should be free to create any kind of movies or books they want, with sexist, homophobic, or even racist tropes. With that said, I'm tired of seeing sexist, homophobic, and racist tropes in entertainment, and I'd love to see more anime/manga like Aoi Hana that treats gender and sexual orientation in a non-exploitative way. On a slightly related note, I made a thread in the request forum for anime and manga with deep characterization by female writers that may be of interest.
Modified by aikaflip, Dec 17, 2014 10:55 PM
 
Jan 3, 2015 5:53 PM

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Damn dude you're as sensitive as a feminist
 
Jan 3, 2015 6:12 PM

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you watched the wrong anime
 
Jan 3, 2015 8:49 PM
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KokkoStar said:
Gay people are nearly always portrayed as borderline rapists/pedophiles who have to fuck every man in a 2 mile radius.
Women, especially moe characters, are often portrayed as psychologically weak (clumsiness, emotional dependence to males, emotional immaturity (tsundere), crybabies) and are often so sexualised it's ridiculous. Pantyshots, boobgrabs etc. are fine in an ecchi, but they don't belong in a serious show.


Man who pissed in your cheerios? You're reading way too deep into this.
 
Jan 3, 2015 9:00 PM

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Immahnoob said:
Red_Keys said:
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.
When did I ask you anything of your tastes?

The question is "Why does it matter?". Your tastes are irrelevant. Is this glorification, expression and perpetuation of real life ideals and values in Anime a problem to the viewer other than "I dislike it"? Are these viewers a majority?


It's baffling how few people understand this. Personal preference isn't evidence. Being offended isn't a valid argument.

“If someone tells me that I’ve hurt their feelings, I’m still waiting to hear what your point is.”

I also notice the OP left out the most used sexual trope in anime - the teenage boy who thinks with his gentleman's sausage instead of his brain. How many nosebleed jokes are in anime? How many times is the guy portrayed as an idiot because of a pretty girl? Not offensive because it's a straight guy, right? Are any of these offensive? No. They are jokes, parody, entertainment, escapism.

Everyone has different tastes. I don't like pantie shots, so I just don't watch anime loaded with it. So few romances in anime have depth, relying too much on sexual parody at the cost of character, but there are those who enjoy it. I look for something else.

Don't like seeing it in anime? Look for a different series.
 
Jan 3, 2015 9:03 PM

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Immahnoob said:
Red_Keys said:
Glorification, expression, and perpetuation of real life ideals and values that I am opposed to, is something I find unappealing in fiction.

It's not really a difficult concept. Fiction doesn't exist in a vacuum. What I enjoy in fiction is a direct reflection of my own personal real life values.
When did I ask you anything of your tastes?
When you asked me why it matters.

Immahnoob said:
The question is "Why does it matter?".
Why did you ask me that question if you didn't want my answer?
 
Jan 3, 2015 9:09 PM

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Using them for the sake of perpetuating ideals based on a moral compass so deteriorated and rusted over that it belongs in the middle-ages is purely idiotic and unnecessary.

Using sexist/homophobic themes in a setting where they are bound to present (A series set in medieval times, for example) is just good writing. Especially if the creator decides to poke at the problem of those tropes and messages.
It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou
YandereTheEmo said:
The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:28 AM

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I'm not really a fan of glorifying homosexuality. Kara no kyoukai is the best example for a show that explores gender identity without being all like look at me senpai I can be so tolerant (I know korra isn't an anime but c'mon)!!!!!

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:30 AM

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black1blade said:
I'm not really a fan of glorifying homosexuality. Kara no kyoukai is the best example for a show that explores gender identity without being all like look at me senpai I can be so tolerant (I know korra isn't an anime but c'mon)!!!!!


I know, right? It's disgusting that people would want to express non-hetero sexual preferences in any medium. Our kids could see that stuff! How disgusting. Filthy. Just plain gross.

It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou
YandereTheEmo said:
The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:34 AM

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I understand why people are gay ect, but It's doesn't really communicate with me because I can't relate to it. I personally said that in my opinion and in my opinion people can like what ever they want.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:37 AM

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I know that this may seem closed minded but I don't think the avatar should be gay in PHYSICAL relationships (she's a collective consciousness of both male and female so yes if she was in spirit avatar mode then yes her spirit can and should be bi) It seems to oppose one of the main themes of the series which was ying and yang, male and female, life and death ect. ect.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:39 AM

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I like seeing homosexuality portrayed in anime because its just plain realistic. There are straight people and there are gay people in the world. To leave one side out of anime would be like completely removing one gender from anime. Just wouldn't be right.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:40 AM

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> Implies males and females are like ying and yang--hence polar opposites by default
> reinforcing the gender binary -- check
>Asserts that characters are naturally heterosexual
> not realizing that by being 'characters' all members of the avatar cast are bisexual because of extrinsic forces.
> Assumes having an opinion constitutes not being criticized.
It's natural for a person to deny he's a failure as a human being. That's why he searches for somebody who is more miserable than himself. That's why so much animosity exists on the internet. Those who aren't able to find a more miserable person, turn to the internet and call other people losers, even though they've never met. Just to make themselves feel superior. isn't that pathetic? There's a sense of security that comes from speaking badly of someone else. But that isn't true salvation. — Tatsuhiro Satou
YandereTheEmo said:
The only thing more pathetic than quoting someone you know nothing about, is quoting yourself.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:40 AM

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That. Technically there should be 1/10 of all anime character's should be gay.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:40 AM

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black1blade said:
I know that this may seem closed minded but I don't think the avatar should be gay in PHYSICAL relationships (she's a collective consciousness of both male and female so yes if she was in spirit avatar mode then yes her spirit can and should be bi) It seems to oppose one of the main themes of the series which was ying and yang, male and female, life and death ect. ect.


Perhaps since she severed her connection to all the previous avatars it is easier for her to choose her sexuality now.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:45 AM

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YandereTheEmo said:
> Implies males and females are like ying and yang--hence polar opposites by default
> reinforcing the gender binary -- check
>Asserts that characters are naturally heterosexual
> not realizing that by being 'characters' all members of the avatar cast are bisexual because of extrinsic forces.
> Assumes having an opinion constitutes not being criticized.

I don't believe that irl but in the avatar universe it's pretty stated. That said there is that big dot in Ying and yang reflecting the other. Maybe I'm taking this philosophy from kara no kyoukai which explores the whole gender identity thing. The main character has both a male and female personality. The main reason homosexuality WAS probably discourages in the past was the fact that there weren't too many humans.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:46 AM

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Kalisto said:
black1blade said:
I know that this may seem closed minded but I don't think the avatar should be gay in PHYSICAL relationships (she's a collective consciousness of both male and female so yes if she was in spirit avatar mode then yes her spirit can and should be bi) It seems to oppose one of the main themes of the series which was ying and yang, male and female, life and death ect. ect.


Perhaps since she severed her connection to all the previous avatars it is easier for her to choose her sexuality now.

Probably.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:48 AM

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Ya its weird to see in anime that all gay people are cross dressers. Its just really disturbing.
 
Jan 4, 2015 2:53 AM

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I don't mind having gay characters but I don't relate to romance anime as is.

Anime is good, fucking deal with it.
 
Jan 4, 2015 4:56 AM
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Fierce_Deity22 said:
Ya its weird to see in anime that all gay people are cross dressers. Its just really disturbing.


Fierce_Deity22 said:
Ya its weird to see in anime that all gay people are cross dressers. Its just really disturbing.


Wow that's a really ignorant statement to make, I've watched over 300 anime in my life and I've hardly come across any homosexuals who was at the same time a cross-dresser. So I'm going to assume that either you're watching all the wrong stuff or you're just making a bold statement to make yourself seem right. I bet you can't even name 12 gay cross-dressers.
 
Jan 4, 2015 5:02 AM

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kyomi-san245 said:
Fierce_Deity22 said:
Ya its weird to see in anime that all gay people are cross dressers. Its just really disturbing.


Fierce_Deity22 said:
Ya its weird to see in anime that all gay people are cross dressers. Its just really disturbing.


Wow that's a really ignorant statement to make, I've watched over 300 anime in my life and I've hardly come across any homosexuals who was at the same time a cross-dresser. So I'm going to assume that either you're watching all the wrong stuff or you're just making a bold statement to make yourself seem right. I bet you can't even name 12 gay cross-dressers.


Wow lol someone went on attack mode. No shit I can't remember 12 gay cross-dressers they were either background characters or side characters. I probably am just watching the one stuff it has nothing to do with making a bold statement to make myself seem right. It's simply what I have seen :/
 
Jan 4, 2015 5:03 AM
 
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