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Dec 11, 2014 1:58 AM

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Kolios said:
Kaioshin_Sama said:
This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase.


This thread is a bait made by someone who is clearly not a fan. "People die when they are killed" is something that came out of an out of the context translation of the DEEN anime. It's not in the VN, yet the OP claims to have read the VN.

The post above is bait too but at least it's trying to do it in a humorous way, which is fine.


Yea between notJune and antonn, I'm starting to think you shouldn't trust Illya avatars...
 
Dec 11, 2014 2:01 AM

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ANGRY2011 said:
Yea between notJune and antonn, I'm starting to think you shouldn't trust Illya avatars...


Liking Illya does things to people.
 
Dec 11, 2014 2:09 AM

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Kaioshin_Sama said:
This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase.


Thanks for going out of your way to insult an entire fanbase. Especially when you probably haven't even talked to 5% of them.

Kolios said:
ANGRY2011 said:
Yea between notJune and antonn, I'm starting to think you shouldn't trust Illya avatars...


Liking Illya does things to people.


I like Illya -_-
 
Dec 11, 2014 2:11 AM

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Kamipriest said:
I like Illya -_-


Careful then, you could be next.
 
Dec 11, 2014 2:52 AM
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The reason I enjoyed F/0 more than this is because I like seeing the perspective of more than one characters and also how there is a distinguishable absence of a proper main character. It was enjoyable to get to see the tragedies, the characters struggle and the betrayals which was quite the treat. Overall the series had a darker tone, the fights involved more strategies and tactics instead of huge explosions and simple brawl while f/sn (ubw) has a lot of comedic scenes/slice of life feel to it which you usually get to see in most anime, sure it has awesome animation during fight scenes but that's all there is to it and some of the awkward dialogues doesn't help either. Heck even the Ost of Fate/zero was better than the current ones.

HentaiPriest said:

Z4k said:
F/0 had better characters and its mainly about winning the grail war unlike f/sn which only about that dense shirou.
Oh you are so wrong.

No I'm not.

In terms of execution and plot, Fate/zero is superior than both UBW and Fate route and you're being delusional in trying to deny it. Heaven's feel might prove me wrong so I'll wait and see how the movies will turn out.
 
Dec 11, 2014 3:18 AM

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Z4k said:
The reason I enjoyed F/0 more than this is because I like seeing the perspective of more than one characters and also how there is a distinguishable absence of a proper main character. It was enjoyable to get to see the tragedies, the characters struggle and the betrayals which was quite the treat. Overall the series had a darker tone, the fights involved more strategies and tactics instead of huge explosions and simple brawl while f/sn (ubw) has a lot of comedic scenes/slice of life feel to it which you usually get to see in most anime, sure it has awesome animation during fight scenes but that's all there is to it and some of the awkward dialogues doesn't help either. Heck even the Ost of Fate/zero was better than the current ones.

HentaiPriest said:

Oh you are so wrong.

No I'm not.

In terms of execution and plot, Fate/zero is superior than both UBW and Fate route and you're being delusional in trying to deny it. Heaven's feel might prove me wrong so I'll wait and see how the movies will turn out.


I thought it became fairly obvious early on in F/Z who the last people standing would be, and therefore who the real main characters were. Even so, F/Z does spend more time presenting from multiple perspectives than F/SN, which is more Shirou-centric, I'd agree with you.

I'd also agree with you that F/Z is more tragic, considering it is an actual tragedy, whereas F/SN isn't.

I will agree that F/SN has more SoL to it. I don't personally mind it, but if it isn't your thing, it isn't your thing.

Those are all the things I agree with you on. Not a bad amount. Moving on to murkier waters:

I don't recall the servant fights being any more tactical in F/Z than in F/SN. I suppose only Kiritsugu's planning stands out to me, so I may not remember it as well as you do, but I guess that also serves as a representation of the impression I got from it. Maybe I should refresh sometime.

I don't agree that awesome animation is all UBW has to it. I think that's pretty dismissive.

I don't agree that in terms of execution and plot Zero is superior. Firstly, I won't feel right comparing a complete F/Z to 9 episodes of UBW. Second, as far as I remember, UBW isn't inferior to the first 9 episodes of F/Z to me.

You are, of course, allowed to have your opinion that F/Z is superior thus so far. I believe that some of what you claim makes F/Z superior to you is pretty legitimate, but also boils down to personal taste. I disagree, and that's ok.

Buuuuuut you can't expect much good to come from starting with an inflammatory statement like your first post. Your second post was much better for discussion.
 
Dec 11, 2014 3:23 AM

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Kaioshin_Sama said:
This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase.
So you ignore the troll and attack the fans.

Always the same routine.See you in the next bait thread.


Z4k said:
The reason I enjoyed F/0 more than this is because I like seeing the perspective of more than one characters and also how there is a distinguishable absence of a proper main character. It was enjoyable to get to see the tragedies, the characters struggle and the betrayals which was quite the treat. Overall the series had a darker tone, the fights involved more strategies and tactics instead of huge explosions and simple brawl while f/sn (ubw) has a lot of comedic scenes/slice of life feel to it which you usually get to see in most anime, sure it has awesome animation during fight scenes but that's all there is to it and some of the awkward dialogues doesn't help either. Heck even the Ost of Fate/zero was better than the current ones.

HentaiPriest said:

Oh you are so wrong.

No I'm not.

In terms of execution and plot, Fate/zero is superior than both UBW and Fate route and you're being delusional in trying to deny it. Heaven's feel might prove me wrong so I'll wait and see how the movies will turn out.
Thats your preference not objective view.


How is FSN NOT about winning the war.How is it not about tactics?And how is Shirou dense in comparison to EVERYONE in FZ?


Modified by ssjokg, Dec 11, 2014 3:30 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:07 AM
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The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu".

Very smart anime.
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:11 AM

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notJune said:
The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu".

Very smart anime.


I dunno, I'm quite fond of Kariya's "LOOK AT BERSERKER HA HA HA HA I'LL KILL YOU TOKIOMI" *coughs unlimited blood* and Tokiomi's "I'll just sit here in my house. Nice and easy. Good times. Nothing can go wrong if I stay here in my house."

Good plans, good plans.
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:17 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:24 AM
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notJune said:
The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu".

Very smart anime.

That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long.

Trying to ignore the positive things in Fate/zero will not make F/Sn look smarter since the characters in it has done even dumber stuff.
Modified by Alter96, Dec 11, 2014 4:29 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:28 AM

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Z4k said:
notJune said:
The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu".

Very smart anime.

That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long.
It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:33 AM

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Grey-Zone said:
I actually watched F/Z first, but immidietly followed with the F/sn VN.

Result:

main character:
UBW!Shirou/HF!Shirou >>>> ZERO!Kiritsugu >> FATE!Shirou

enjoyment:
UBW-route&HF-route > F/Z >>> Fate-route




HF Shirou = Kerry (I like how they're the complete opposites of each other) > = UBW Shirou > Fate Shirou

I like all three version of Shirou tbh (yes, even Fate!Shirou)



HF > UBW > Fate

Dunno where should I put Zero.
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:33 AM

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Z4k said:
notJune said:
The funny thing is that no one in F/Z bar Kerry really had much of a strategy for winning the war other than "muh beamu > ur beamu".

Very smart anime.

That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long.

Trying to ignore the positive things in Fate/zero will not make F/Sn look smarter since the characters in it has done even dumber stuff.


Shrug. I never understood why they essentially wasted the Assassin trump card with such impunity. It was a clever beginning plan, but it was basically immediately negated.

I'd put it on the level of Shinji in F/SN. That Bloodfort Andromeda was a good idea, but he wasted it.
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:36 AM
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HentaiPriest said:
Z4k said:

That bait by Tokiomi into making everyone believe assassin died was smart move even though it didn't last for long.
It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.

But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not.

Edit: Typo
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:44 AM
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You sure you read the VN OP?
Anyway, I found Fate/Zero better than any of the three routes of FSN individually going as Zero>Fate/UBW>HF. I do recommend it.
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:49 AM

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Z4k said:
HentaiPriest said:
It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.

But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not.

Edit: Typo


There's a difference between being completely calm under pressure(Shirou) and being completely oblivious of your surroundings(Tokiomi).

As shown in Ep 8 Shirou can stand in room/school full of dying/dead bodies and not give a fuck, yet still rationally lay out plans and make decisions.

With RIn incident, he did not took her seriously(but did not underestimate) and evaded most of her attacks till she dropped gem in the room. Then he took her seriously but they got interrupted. Then he took time to clear up what Rin wants to do giving her an option to continue.
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:50 AM

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Z4k said:
HentaiPriest said:
It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.

But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not.

Edit: Typo
Isnt you the one that ignore stuff?

Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider?
Tokiomi ignored things, was too relaxed even tho he knew EXACTLY what the war is,didn't effectively use Gil and he accomplished nothing.
You confuse luck with effectively using what is given to you(not counting Avalon).

Oh please tell me the tons of good planning FZ chars did and the tons of dumb things FSN chars did.

How about you make some lists as well?
 
Dec 11, 2014 4:52 AM

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Z4k said:
HentaiPriest said:
It was the only good plan.What followed after that was a disaster.He was too relaxed.

But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not.

Edit: Typo


I suppose you could say Shirou is relaxed. I think a better description would be... slower to come to the reality of the situation?

Tokiomi was relaxed. He knew exactly what the Grail War was, had his plan, and was very confident in it.

Shirou knew nothing about the Grail War, had a bunch of info dumped all over himself, decided he was gonna go through with it, but it didn't seem to sink in, for lack of a better term. It is one thing to hear it, another thing to live it. I think you can see that Shirou has started to accept the reality of the situation. He'll let Saber guard him closer at night, he is training himself for combat, and he seems more ready to strategize with Rin and strike rather than wait and see now.
 
Dec 11, 2014 5:22 AM
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Kaioshin_Sama said:
This thread kind of exemplifies why the whole Fate thing is kind of nauseating to me at least when it comes to the fanbase which is a shame cause the shows are fairly decent stuff for Visual Novel adaptation fare which I'm so very much not normally into. You wouldn't know it was supposed to be enjoyable or interesting though talking to the fanbase.


Seriously why do you always ignore the trolls and haters and always go after the fanbase? This isn't KyoAni or Monogatari fanbase you know............just to clarify.

Besides you don't have much idea how much insult, hate, BS some VN fans had to see after that retarded fan fic called DEENFSN. You probably missed the fact that the newbies or viewers genuinely interested are always supported......the same way you missed the fact this was a bait thread by a non-VN guy to spark some fires.

 
Dec 11, 2014 5:29 AM
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"I have 80+ of these servants specialized in killing masters, I think I'll have them all mob the most powerful servants in the war."

Such strategy.
 
Dec 11, 2014 5:31 AM

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ANGRY2011 said:
Z4k said:

But isn't shirou relaxed too? Rin attacked him in the school and could have almost killed him yet he seemed ok with it afterwards. I don't know but some of the scenes don't make it quite clear whether shirou is taking the war seriously or not. And even though Shirou seems relaxed, he has luck while Tokiomi obviously did not.

Edit: Typo


I suppose you could say Shirou is relaxed. I think a better description would be... slower to come to the reality of the situation?

Tokiomi was relaxed. He knew exactly what the Grail War was, had his plan, and was very confident in it.

Shirou knew nothing about the Grail War, had a bunch of info dumped all over himself, decided he was gonna go through with it, but it didn't seem to sink in, for lack of a better term. It is one thing to hear it, another thing to live it. I think you can see that Shirou has started to accept the reality of the situation. He'll let Saber guard him closer at night, he is training himself for combat, and he seems more ready to strategize with Rin and strike rather than wait and see now.


He accepted reality of situation as early as Ep3.
Lack of knowledge =/= lack of acceptance.

And we all know that having trouble with people protecting him has nothing to do with these things.
 
Dec 11, 2014 5:38 AM

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CookingPriest said:
ANGRY2011 said:


I suppose you could say Shirou is relaxed. I think a better description would be... slower to come to the reality of the situation?

Tokiomi was relaxed. He knew exactly what the Grail War was, had his plan, and was very confident in it.

Shirou knew nothing about the Grail War, had a bunch of info dumped all over himself, decided he was gonna go through with it, but it didn't seem to sink in, for lack of a better term. It is one thing to hear it, another thing to live it. I think you can see that Shirou has started to accept the reality of the situation. He'll let Saber guard him closer at night, he is training himself for combat, and he seems more ready to strategize with Rin and strike rather than wait and see now.


He accepted reality of situation as early as Ep3.
Lack of knowledge =/= lack of acceptance.

And we all know that having trouble with people protecting him has nothing to do with these things.


He said he did. I think he partially did. I think he honestly believed he had. I'm not faulting him, you know. He knew nothing about the Grail War. The concept had to be pretty outlandish to him.

But I don't think he really was fully able to accept it until Rin confronted him at school and he was kidnapped by Caster. Not because he wasn't willing, or because he didn't want to, but just because these confrontations forced a different understanding. School isn't safe. Neither is sleeping at home.

As for him having trouble with people protecting him, yea I know. I think you're misinterpreting what I said. Letting Saber guard him closer at night is definitely a sign that he's serious, that he gets it, and that he accepts it. Even more so because he has trouble with people protecting him.
 
Dec 11, 2014 6:43 AM
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HentaiPriest said:
Isnt you the one that ignore stuff?

Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider?

I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times.
Modified by Alter96, Dec 11, 2014 6:48 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 6:47 AM

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Clearly I've committed a Type-moon forum version of a faux pas again and remain unaware of it once again :P I'm not sure how my (assumed) innocent question, which some members here have answered sufficiently well in a manner I expected, turned into some sort of S-level bait, but I guess I'll never know given the amount of prior knowledge is required to follow conversation in this forum ^o^ So again, if someone could fill in the blanks, that'd be much appreciated.

Trust me though :P It was an authentic question. You may assume I never read the VN if you like, as I explained earlier on; I still enjoy hearing this community's opinions about what to expect :D.
 
Dec 11, 2014 6:52 AM

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Z4k said:
HentaiPriest said:
Isnt you the one that ignore stuff?

Wasnt Shirou the one that wanted to resume the fight after Rider left?Isnt Shirou the one that asked Saber to train him?And how is he relaxed when he was working with her later into stopping Rider?

I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times.


How has his luck kept him alive?

 
Dec 11, 2014 7:01 AM

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Z4k said:
Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions.
Well now you are ignoring that he's a novice mage. He can't defend against that, he already has a field around his house but Caster is too OP.

In Fate route this doesn't happen because


Oh and before you bring up Shinji
Modified by Botato, Dec 11, 2014 7:05 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 7:18 AM
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nocorras said:
Z4k said:

I'm not ignoring those scenes. True he did want to resume the fight with Rider but some scenes negates his good points like the one where Caster easily captured Shirou. It made him look really stupid because how could someone be so careless enough to let an enemy servant snatch you out of your own base? That wouldn't have happened if he were more serious about this war and had taken more precautions. See here I'm not ignoring his efforts because I know he's done good things like the last two episodes but until now its his abnormally good luck that kept him alive most of the times.


How has his luck kept him alive?


 
Dec 11, 2014 7:30 AM

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I thin the overall plot/characters of the 2 anime are different enough to say even if you didn't like one that much, it would be highly possible you could end up still loving the other one.
 
Dec 11, 2014 7:32 AM

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Z4k said:
nocorras said:


How has his luck kept him alive?


Which is no different from most of what happened in F/Z.

Edit: And he's aware of it, he did find it surprising but from his point of view Rin's explanation makes sense.
 
Dec 11, 2014 8:38 AM

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Z4k said:
nocorras said:


How has his luck kept him alive?


So you are ignoring how OP Caster is, the one that tricked the Holy Grail system and summoned a


There is nothing here that planning could solve especially when he cant make something like a field by himself.

Sometimes thinking about what you watch helps.
Modified by ssjokg, Dec 11, 2014 8:44 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 8:46 AM

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Sorry I'm new here but how does caster can summon a fake assassin (I've read this VN 3 years ago but seem to forget that past)?
 
Dec 11, 2014 8:48 AM

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You can blame the adaptation being hellbent on "implying" things than showing the, but there's absolutely nothing anyone human could do against this Caster.

As Archer states, she "mimicks True Magic".

The explanation that was cut from Ep0 explains that magecraft(majutsu), that most magi(majutsushi), including Shirou and Rin, use is basically science - alchemy if you want. It is essentially conversion of energy(either form inside or outside) for various purposes.


"True Magic"(Mahou) is something no magus can wield and is essentially reality warping only currently available to five people in entire world who have the right to be called Magicians/Mages(Mahou Tsukai).It defies any rule, warps time and space, ignores physic and logic, etc. First Magic defies logic by making anything out of nothing, Second Magic bends dimensions, Third fucks up souls, Fourth is unknown and hides itself, and Fifth defies law of conservation, as well as time.

Out of five known Mahou Tsukai, only two are known and active, the master of second magic, Kaleidoscope, Wizard Marshall Zelretch, who is the current head of Magi Association and the master of fifth magic, Blue, Aoko Aozaki, one of Magi Asociation's heavy-hitters.
However True Magicians usually just keep to themselves and do not involve themselves in generic squabbles in the world.



Shirou did have a boundary field established around his house(The bells you see when Lancer crosses inside) that alerts him to any and all intruders. As simple as it is, that should cover most of magical stuff.

However, since Caster mimicking something on level of True Magic, that means that pretty much no magus in the world could prepare or defend against her.Any protection or alarm system is useless. Because there are literally only maybe 5 people in entire present time world who could be able to do ANYTHING against this Caster. Rin, Illya, Shirou - does not matter - any of them would have been caught this way no matter preparations. Cater simply went after the weakest, and after Saber's master(since as she said she needs Saber)

The only way to deal with her is close range combat(hence why Saber, Lancer and Archer classes that are known for high magical resistance, would be super effective). The moment you try to fight against her magic with magic, you lose.
Modified by Ahenshihael, Dec 11, 2014 9:05 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 8:48 AM

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hoanggiangvt94 said:
Sorry I'm new here but how does caster can summon a fake assassin (I've read this VN 3 years ago but seem to forget that past)?

In short she found out how the system works and then gave zero fucks about it because a modern magic system is child's play for her.
 
Dec 11, 2014 8:51 AM

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CookingPriest said:
The moment you try to fight against her magic with magic, you lose.
Future bullet dodged :)
 
Dec 11, 2014 9:21 AM

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HentaiPriest said:
hoanggiangvt94 said:
Sorry I'm new here but how does caster can summon a fake assassin (I've read this VN 3 years ago but seem to forget that past)?

In short she found out how the system works and then gave zero fucks about it because a modern magic system is child's play for her.

Thanks, now to think about it, the VN mentioned the different about old and new magic in the prologue.
 
Dec 11, 2014 9:32 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 10:23 AM

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Shrimperor said:
Carnival Phantasm > F/Z +F/SN

/thread



/s
Stop making sense.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:08 AM

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I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:09 AM

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Agafin said:
I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm.


It's not really all about trying too hard it's just FSN fans get tired of people equating 'dark' to maturity and automatically think FSN is immature. F/Zero is best watched after reading/watching the Heaven's Feel route of FSN to get the most out of Zero imo.

Basically this guys explanation sums it up:

"Now, think of The Witcher (those of you, who played). In civilised countries it was released with the inclusion of nudity and sexual themes, in the post-reformation, puritan world, it was stripped of 'fleshy bits'. Now, what's the difference between these two? Is the uncensored edition more mature? Nope. The maturity of the game comes with the story. With the difficult moral choices that the player has to make and then face (sometimes tragic for other characters) the consequences. That's maturity. So the censored edition was still just as mature, just not as enjoyable and less life-like. "



Fate/Zero has killing/violence/gore. FSN is mature in the fact that it explores Shirou's ideals and what happens to him and those around him.
Modified by nocorras, Dec 11, 2014 11:15 AM
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:11 AM

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Agafin said:
I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm.
You mean FZ?
It IS mature.

The problem is that people confuse its themes with the gore.FSN is as mature as Zero is in its themes and it has gore when it has to.The problem is that some people see a show as mature only if it has adults, much gore and every char ready to kill at any moment.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:18 AM

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nocorras said:
Agafin said:
I really wanted to watch to watch F/0 after F/SN since I'm really enjoying it so far but judging from the first pages this thread, it seems like it just "tries too hard " to be mature. Hmmm.


It's not really all about trying too hard it's just FSN fans get tired of people equating 'dark' to maturity and automatically think FSN is immature. F/Zero is best watched after reading/watching the Heaven's Feel route of FSN to get the most out of Zero imo.

Basically this guys explanation sums it up:

"Now, think of The Witcher (those of you, who played). In civilised countries it was released with the inclusion of nudity and sexual themes, in the post-reformation, puritan world, it was stripped of 'fleshy bits'. Now, what's the difference between these two? Is the uncensored edition more mature? Nope. The maturity of the game comes with the story. With the difficult moral choices that the player has to make and then face (sometimes tragic for other characters) the consequences. That's maturity. So the censored edition was still just as mature, just not as enjoyable and less life-like. "



Fate/Zero has killing/violence/gore. FSN is mature in the fact that it explores Shirou's ideals and what happens to him and those around him.


OK, I see thanks. But what you said here isn't the same thing I've read in the first pages though.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:20 AM
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Fate/Zero is great and it is mature.
However, Fate/Stay Night is just as mature if not more so and in my opinion, better.

It just so happens that shitting on F/Z is common among more.....zealous F/SN fans.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:27 AM

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InsertPriestHere said:
Fate/Zero is great and it is mature.
However, Fate/Stay Night is just as mature if not more so and in my opinion, better.

It just so happens that shitting on F/Z is common among more.....zealous F/SN fans.


Actually that was just describing the ridiculous thought process of some F/Z-watchers and not actually describing F/Z. I personally think F/Z by itself is at least better than 1 of the VN routes of F/sn.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:33 AM

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Agafin said:
nocorras said:


It's not really all about trying too hard it's just FSN fans get tired of people equating 'dark' to maturity and automatically think FSN is immature. F/Zero is best watched after reading/watching the Heaven's Feel route of FSN to get the most out of Zero imo.

Basically this guys explanation sums it up:

"Now, think of The Witcher (those of you, who played). In civilised countries it was released with the inclusion of nudity and sexual themes, in the post-reformation, puritan world, it was stripped of 'fleshy bits'. Now, what's the difference between these two? Is the uncensored edition more mature? Nope. The maturity of the game comes with the story. With the difficult moral choices that the player has to make and then face (sometimes tragic for other characters) the consequences. That's maturity. So the censored edition was still just as mature, just not as enjoyable and less life-like. "



Fate/Zero has killing/violence/gore. FSN is mature in the fact that it explores Shirou's ideals and what happens to him and those around him.


OK, I see thanks. But what you said here isn't the same thing I've read in the first pages though.
Dont worry.

It is fans making fans of people that judge FSN for "not being like FZ" or fans who for some reason decided that it is ok to make FZ look bad in order to make FSN look better when they dont have to do that.

If you find people that havent read FSN and say that they understood FZ, dont trust them.FZ is written with the idea that the reader has already read FSN.It is like a greek tragedy, you read it so that you know how they reached the end, see the irony, and how it shaped any surviving characters.

It isnt about the war or the grail,the gore or the fights.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:35 AM

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Grey-Zone said:
. I personally think F/Z by itself is at least better than 1 of the VN routes of F/sn.

*Somewhere*
-Codename FAI prepare to strike-

I agree but FSN isnt just one route.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:39 AM

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BotatoPriest said:
Shrimperor said:
Carnival Phantasm > F/Z +F/SN

/thread



/s
Stop making sense.

Sorry, again.
I just can't stop making sense in Type-moon threads.

Teach me, Mastah!
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:40 AM
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Fate/Zero and Fate/stay night are like two different Anime. The atmosphere is completely different, and F/Z is much deeper and better thought-out. So yeah, F/Z is definitely superior. F/SN is just ranked higher so far because of the hype. Once it's done, it's going to be around ~#40-60. I'd say, give F/Z a go.
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:41 AM

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Man, this thread becomes a war. LOL. Better take neutral side. Can't say anything, I haven't read the VN and Fate UBW is not even reaching its 1st half yet. Must see all episodes to give proper opinions to compare the characters and story.

But the sure thing for me is :

-F/Z is superior than F/SN Deen's adaptation

-F/SN UBW battle scenes > F/Z (see the battles in those two series, ufotable has upgraded the animation of battle scenes of F/SN UBW) so if u guys are looking for action, F/SN UBW may provide u better entertainment.

-The obvious difference is, the point of view. In F/Z, we got third person point of view, where we got to see all of the characters and what's going on. In F/SN, we got first person point of view, which is our MC, Shirou (this could be bad if u don't like him as a character).
 
Dec 11, 2014 11:45 AM
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Kirua- said:
Fate/Zero and Fate/stay night are like two different Anime. The atmosphere is completely different, and F/Z is much deeper and better thought-out.

You can't decide that until you've seen the full story of F/SN.
And having read the source material for both, I'll have to disagree.
 
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