Sword Art Online (light novel)
DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
| I guess this mean it is game over for Yuuki now. |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| SAO has come a long way since S1. Is it because we've had time to get attached to the characters? Maybe. The execution is significantly better? Definitely. Here's one thing though. It seems better whenever Kirito isn't the main focus and I liked him more on the sidelines,helping out a bit however he can and then letting others have the spotlight for a change. Anyway,this arc's doing wonders for Asuna's as a character. Nice job SAO II. |
MgMaster said: SAO has come a long way since S1. Is it because we've had time to get attached to the characters? Maybe. The execution is significantly better? Definitely. Here's one thing though. It seems better whenever Kirito isn't the main focus and I liked him more on the sidelines,helping out a bit however he can and then letting others have the spotlight for a change. Anyway,this arc's doing wonders for Asuna's as a character. Nice job SAO II. I am Alicization and I find this offensive. |
| To care for a character it has to be properly built up, characterized. All the guild has been was "generic mmorpg party #785", Yuuki included. Then we get an entire episode which is fifteen minutes of exposition about how much we should be sad about her, how sad her life was and so on. I'm not arguing about the sadness of her life, or her courage, or the battle she is enduring. Of course it's sad. But it's really hard for me to feel sad about a character I have no attachment with, which is unfortunate: what I argue is about the execution of the entire arc. Yes Asuna: other people out there have it rough, many of them far more than you do, I'm glad at least that lesson was clear. Who would've known. |
Ukyo9 said: Yes Asuna: other people out there have it rough, many of them far more than you do, I'm glad at least that lesson was clear. Who would've known. That was not the lesson.Other's problems do not make Asuna's life any less awful. |
 |
CookingPriest said: Ukyo9 said: Yes Asuna: other people out there have it rough, many of them far more than you do, I'm glad at least that lesson was clear. Who would've known. That was not the lesson.Other's problems do not make Asuna's life any less awful. I must've missed the point then. To me, Asuna's reaction really felt like one someone that needs a bit more of a grasp on reality an how the world works would have. I really am having problems feeling empathy about the whole ordeal and it's probably in the way it was shown. It was probably too quick and I wouldn't be surprised if the original source material, of which I am admittedly unknowing, handled it better. But I am a bit of a bitter person about these topics in general, so I'm probaly biased. I shall rewatch the episode tomorrow with a more positive attitude to give it a more fair shot. |
Ukyo9 said: CookingPriest said: That was not the lesson.Other's problems do not make Asuna's life any less awful. I must've missed the point then. To me, Asuna's reaction really felt like one someone that needs a bit more of a grasp on reality an how the world works would have. I really am having problems feeling empathy about the whole ordeal and it's probably in the way it was shown. It was probably too quick and I wouldn't be surprised if the original source material, of which I am admittedly unknowing, handled it better. But I am a bit of a bitter person about these topics in general, so I'm probaly biased. I shall rewatch the episode tomorrow with a more positive attitude to give it a more fair shot. I would say part of the message we get from this arc is no matter who you are they're things out of our control. Doesn't matter how strong, smart etc a person is somethings you're just powerless against. |
Ukyo9 said: CookingPriest said: That was not the lesson.Other's problems do not make Asuna's life any less awful. I must've missed the point then. To me, Asuna's reaction really felt like one someone that needs a bit more of a grasp on reality an how the world works would have. ????? Her reaction was the most normal shit ever. Not knowing that there's someone who has been in VR for 3 years almost straight it's normal, none of the SAO survivors know except, well, Kirito. |
| I'm really sad about Yuuki... Why people have to be such problems with their health if they're innocent persons?! It's too bad when someone is like the same situation as Yuuki... I start feeling if this treatments really exist at the moment and if I can may be do something which can help people like her. :( Be strong Yuuki, you have a good a friend who wants to take care of you, because your too much important to her (Asuna) ;) I anxious for the next episode to see if are any progress about Yuuki's history. |
| Maloween 2017 Main Candies   |
Takuan_Soho said: CookingPriest said: That was not the lesson.Other's problems do not make Asuna's life any less awful. Why do you think that Asuna's life is awful? Has her mother banned her from playing VR? Has she yanked her out of school? Is she threatening to disown Asuna if she doesn't marry the guy? The worse her mother has done was to pull the plug on the VR once when Asuna was late for dinner. Wow, what an awful life. And even IF Asuna's parents were that "awful", that still doesn't compare to how horrible Yuuki's life has been in comparison. Asuna still has her parents, she still has her brother, she is still alive, feed, clothed, can receive an education, can run off and marry who she wants (if she is willing to forsake her rich lifestyle), her problems are, to use the meme "first world problems". They seem tragic only to those who don't know that real tragedy is. Yuuki has lost her parents, her sister, has been ostracized in the real world, and has known every single day of her life that she is dying. You can't compare the two. Notice the doctor saying that the medical device is best because of it can treat pain? So not only has all those horrible things have happened to her, she was in great pain most of her life. This is real physical pain, hard pain. I don't want to run Asuna down because she is only 15-16 and she has gone through some traumatic experiences (though they really don't seem to have negatively affected her that much), but yes her problems are small compared to other people's problems. And she is learning this. What she is learning is that no matter the person's strength, there are problems they feel helpless against. THe problems asuna has do not make her "weaker" than she was in SAO. IT is something to be overcome and fight against. And yes, ASuna's life IS awful. Parents that try to squash any sort of identity their children are developing can severely traumatize their children for life. |
|
Takuan_Soho said: CookingPriest said: That was not the lesson.Other's problems do not make Asuna's life any less awful. Why do you think that Asuna's life is awful? Has her mother banned her from playing VR? Has she yanked her out of school? Is she threatening to disown Asuna if she doesn't marry the guy? The worse her mother has done was to pull the plug on the VR once when Asuna was late for dinner. Wow, what an awful life. And even IF Asuna's parents were that "awful", that still doesn't compare to how horrible Yuuki's life has been in comparison. Asuna still has her parents, she still has her brother, she is still alive, feed, clothed, can receive an education, can run off and marry who she wants (if she is willing to forsake her rich lifestyle), her problems are, to use the meme "first world problems". They seem tragic only to those who don't know that real tragedy is. Yuuki has lost her parents, her sister, has been ostracized in the real world, and has known every single day of her life that she is dying. You can't compare the two. Notice the doctor saying that the medical device is best because of it can treat pain? So not only has all those horrible things have happened to her, she was in great pain most of her life. This is real physical pain, hard pain. I don't want to run Asuna down because she is only 15-16 and she has gone through some traumatic experiences (though they really don't seem to have negatively affected her that much), but yes her problems are small compared to other people's problems. And she is learning this. I think you don't get the point. You shouldn't compare your life to someone else, yes, Yuuki has her problems, that doesn't mean Asuna should be super happy about her own problems, yes, Yuuki's are worse and bigger, yes. Still, having all that pressure from your parents, always having to act for their sake, it's really, really annoying and can cause you deppression and other things in the future, or you may end like Kyouji from Phantom Bullet arc. Yes, compared to AIDS its not as bad, yes. Still, just because you know someone is worse than you, doesn't mean you should feel happy. And don't you dare come with "you don't know what tragedy is", I myself suffer from severe depression and my ex gf was diagnosed with cancer, I know how hard those things are, but still, not even once i thought "you know what? my gf is dying there, i think my family problems are stupid compared to that". |
Takuan_Soho said: Reyxe said: You shouldn't compare your life to someone else, yes, Yuuki has her problems, that doesn't mean Asuna should be super happy about her own problems, yes, Yuuki's are worse and bigger, yes. No, you are missing my point. It's not a matter of comparing, its a matter of putting one's problems into perspective. Nowhere have I said that Asuna should happily accept her parent's decisions, indeed I said the opposite when I said Asuna could decide who she wanted to marry if she was willing to accept the consequences. That is what being an adult is about. That is the lesson that Asuna needs to learn. Reyxe said: And don't you dare come with "you don't know what tragedy is", I myself suffer from severe depression and my ex gf was diagnosed with cancer, I know how hard those things are, but still, not even once i thought "you know what? my gf is dying there, i think my family problems are stupid compared to that". Uhm, I never said that "you don't know what tragedy is", I said that Asuna does not know it. Her problems with her mother are solvable, issues of death are not. Yuuki is a tragedy, compared to that having to deal with parental disappointment and even rejection, while bad, pale in comparison. Parental disapproval in Japan is bad, but you will not die of starvation because of it in Japan. In many parts of the world, it is a different story. That is the difference between a first world and non-first world problem. It's not that easy, from the beginning of SAO, Asuna was always that girl who had to live the way her parents wanted, then she met Kirito and she noticed that it wasn't supposed to be like that, it's not easy when you're supposed to face your parents, specially that mother of her. You said (too lazy to quote) "her problems are, to use the meme "first world problems". They seem tragic only to those who don't know that real tragedy is" and that's wrong, i've seen people suffering for years due to those high expectations their parents had, not listening to them, not giving a damn and always "wow, you only got a 9? why not a 10? focus more on your studies" or "you should act like this, not that, games are bad" or whatever, kids are supposed to choose their own future and career, something that parents don't always understand, calling those a "first world problems" is seriously bad, i'm from a third world country myself and thanks to those retardedly high expectations I ended up being what I am today, not only me, but I know a bunch of other people with the same problem. |
Takuan_Soho said: y123y said: Kirito: No problem. And if you know a person for my new technology to assist them in, let me know. I get your point, but don't forget that Kirito has a certain friend in a certain high ranking governmental position that owes him several massive favors. Also, Kirito knew long before Asuna met her what Yuuki's secret was, so it isn't surprising that he would have investigated it before Asuna asked. As for the technological factor, it was established in the first novel that Kirito was heavy into VR technology, that is why he was able to be a "beater", so it isn't that much of a stretch that he would be very into it after his SAO experience, particularly since he achieved his life's happiness (wife and child) in VR. That was, after all, why he was so concerned with Death Gun in GGO. There is a massive difference between "plot armor" and logical extensions. For a LN, SAO does a very good job at making sure it is the latter not the former. We just need to forget the first season of the anime anyway lol. Kirito and Asuna had a lot of character development in the LN portion of the first season. Kirito got some of his development overtime but Asuna just seemed bland(anime wise until now). I'm glad I started reading the LN because they give so much more insight on the characters. |
Takuan_Soho said: No, she is learning the opposite. Asuna HAS felt helpless. She felt helpless to tell her parents that she didn't want to marry their first choice, she feels helpless against her mother now. Which is my point - Yuuki's problems do not erase that. They just inspire Asuna to stand up for herself and believe in her inner strength. True, but that isn't Asuna's problem. Asuna is wondering why she can't take the strength she learned in SAO and translate it to her life. She specifically mentioned this when she first dueled with Yuuki, though she did not learn the real answer at that time (as her justification to herself for losing showed). And this situation shows her that it is not about that. She always had that strength she just never got to use it because we ALL feel helpless at some point. It does not mean we are weak. Asuna's parents are not that bad. Are you kidding me? They are downright abusive. As I said above her mother hasn't banned her from using VR, she hasn't restricted Asuna from meeting Kirito in real life, she didn't immediately pull Asuna out of her school, so no she hasn't "squashed" Asuna's personality (indeed that Asuna has such a strong one is testament to this fact). VR IS part of Asuna's life, her mother has no right to take that away. Nor her mother has any right to choose the school for Asuna. Nor she has any right to decide what studies she has to take or whom she should marry. That IS squashing her personality. Stop projecting, and think, what action has Asuna's mother taken that is so bad? Notice that her threats are all in the future - giving Asuna a chance to determine an alternative. Every single one we have seen? You named it yourself - THREATS. THe moment the parent starts using threats, instead of talking to a child as an equal - that parent loses any right to be a parent. I'll stop here because anything else will be a spoiler. But I would suggest to go back to Asuna's responses to her mother. That is the key to Asuna's problem. Which is what I said Asuna learns from this - to fight for herself to not feel helpless because everyone is feeling helpless against something Oh, as a cultural note I should add: arranged marriages in Japan (outside of fiction) are not forced. If either of the couple wants to refuse, they refuse. It would be better to think of them as "arranged dates", not marriages. THat does not matter. It is still duress and it is still an archaic practice. Takuan_Soho said: Uhm, I never said that "you don't know what tragedy is", I said that Asuna does not know it. Her problems with her mother are solvable, issues of death are not. Yuuki is a tragedy, compared to that having to deal with parental disappointment and even rejection, while bad, pale in comparison. Parental disapproval in Japan is bad, but you will not die of starvation because of it in Japan. In many parts of the world, it is a different story. That is the difference between a first world and non-first world problem. Holy shit did you just fucking imply that parental abuse is PERFECTLY okay because someone has it worse? Sorry, that's not how world works. One's problems do not go smaller just because someone else has bigger problems. In Yuuki's eyes Asuna's problems are smaller, b ut that has nothing to do with the fact that htey are still as big for Asuna. Just as we can't weigh the value lives, we can't weigh suffering either - it does not work. Takuan_Soho said: No, Asuna did not have the courage to confront her parents, that is something very different. Asuna's mother hasn't threatened to disown Asuna, she is just worried that Asuna will not be happy with the decision she makes. I have personal experience of a family who did threaten their daughter, though to give my in-laws credit, once my wife made her determination known, they didn't carry out their threat and I like to believe that once they met me they were honestly happy for their daughter. But I have met plenty of families that did carry out their threats. Yes Asuna's lesson is to learn to stand up and fight against her problems. It does not make them small. It just, as I said before, shows Asuna that she is not weak because she feels helpless, even the strongest feel helpless. She thought that she is no more that person from SAO so she can't do anything. This proves her wrong - SAO ASuna and Asuna Yuuki are the same. And she CAN stand up to her mother's iron will. What has Asuna's mother done that is so horrible? Has she said that Asuna can't do VR? Has she restricted Asuna to their house, disallowing any contact? Has she threatened Asuna? Has Asuna told her mother what she has "chosen"? No. So is it any wonder that her mother is worried? What she did? Restrict her personality and free will in growing up the way she wants. She did threaten and emotionally manipulate Asuna. Teenager years are ALL ABOUT not knowing what you want and figuring it out - Asuna said as much to her mother. Yet Her mother is still making decision "for betterment of Asuna"(while in reality all she does is try to live her life and dreams through Asuna) THAT IS harmful to personality and identity of Asuna. |
|
AnimeFan500 said: Zapredon said: Yeah. Most likely Asuna will use the camera that Kirito make,acting as eye for Yuuki. IKR? Plus the ED Yuuki on Asuna's shoulder TwT And Yuuki will probably die at the end of this arc which is why at the end of the ending song,Asuna is seen alone at the place where she met Yuuki first time having nostalgia trip. Even listening to the ending now will give me feel. |
ZapredonDec 9, 2014 2:59 AM
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
| Contrived drama, my entire family died of AIDS!!!! |
 |
Takuan_Soho said: y123y said: Kirito: No problem. And if you know a person for my new technology to assist them in, let me know. I get your point, but don't forget that Kirito has a certain friend in a certain high ranking governmental position that owes him several massive favors. Also, Kirito knew long before Asuna met her what Yuuki's secret was, so it isn't surprising that he would have investigated it before Asuna asked. As for the technological factor, it was established in the first novel that Kirito was heavy into VR technology, that is why he was able to be a "beater", so it isn't that much of a stretch that he would be very into it after his SAO experience, particularly since he achieved his life's happiness (wife and child) in VR. That was, after all, why he was so concerned with Death Gun in GGO. There is a massive difference between "plot armor" and logical extensions. For a LN, SAO does a very good job at making sure it is the latter not the former. In the anime, first episode, SAO1, Kiriito had a book about Kayaba, so... a book about VR, it was implied that he was interested in it. Again, people doesnt think logically. Takuan_Soho said: Reyxe said: It's not that easy, from the beginning of SAO, Asuna was always that girl who had to live the way her parents wanted, No, Asuna did not have the courage to confront her parents, that is something very different. Wrong, she thought that was perfectly normal and that everyone was like that. Asuna's mother hasn't threatened to disown Asuna, she is just worried that Asuna will not be happy with the decision she makes. I have personal experience of a family who did threaten their daughter, though to give my in-laws credit, once my wife made her determination known, they didn't carry out their threat and I like to believe that once they met me they were honestly happy for their daughter. But I have met plenty of families that did carry out their threats. There's a difference about showing the negative points of something to your daughter and threatening her, that's discouraging. What has Asuna's mother done that is so horrible? Has she said that Asuna can't do VR? Has she restricted Asuna to their house, disallowing any contact? Has she threatened Asuna? Has Asuna told her mother what she has "chosen"? No. So is it any wonder that her mother is worried? Yet again, it's different, there's a difference between being "worried" and trying to control your daughter forcing your thoughts on her, also, the "you lost 2 years of your life because of that game", she hasn't even think about how Asuna felt during and about those 2 years. And what are you today? Would you, if you could, decide you would be something else? Of course I would, I would be happy if I could conect with other people normally, if i had some goals or dreams left, if i still had a reason as to keep trying, yea, but what people don't understand, is that once you get to 30th depression degree, you have already lost everything, you can't love, you can't be happy nor sad, you can't even try anymore, no, my parents weren't the only problem, but the fact that i had a shit ton of problems during my childhood and those years that come later (don't remember the term, refers to 11 to 16 y/o) and they didn't give enough f*cks to ask me but instead tried to put that pressure on me to get better grades because "that's the only thing I should be doing" was fucking wrong. Not trying to say that I don't accept my past or anything, it's my life afterall, but if my life could be any different, yes, but there's no reason for that, i'm studying something i don't even like or dislike and it's the same for everything else. The concept behind "First World Problems" is not to belittle real problems. Death is a constant, it affects all people equally. But there is a world of difference between parental disapproval in say Japan and parental disapproval in Afghanistan. The former is inconvenient, hurtful, but the latter is terminal. If Asuna were to defy her parents it would hurt her, but it is not the existential threat it would be in other countries. That is where perspective comes into play. Again, even if that is right, it's not something one knows for logic itself, they are her parents, and their attitude has given her the reason to be like that. |
ReyxeDec 9, 2014 5:23 AM
| I liked the episode but I think that they're putting Asuna/Kirito relationship to a back seat. I already think that that crazy mother of hers will be the end of them. I hope I'm wrong. P.S I hate how they got rid of Sinon. I mean I'm a Kirito/Asuna fan aswell but she could've been given some roll :( |
 |
| A really touching and emotional episode... not really what you would expect from this show, but a pleasant surprise nonetheless. This is one of the best episodes of SAO, in either season. Overall, this season is MUCH more satisfying than the first. |
| Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. --Lord Acton in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887 If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator. --George W. Bush, during his first trip to Washington as President-Elect, Washington, DC, Dec. 18, 2000 |
In what kind of dream world are you livin that parents can't threat the child and nurture him the way they see the best? That's just naive, as trying to be a God of justice. First of all, child is parent's "property" - they gave him birth, they worked hard to maintain the child, the family, they gave him the food, the clothes, the shelter. They have all the rights to nurture their own child how they want, of course in logical boundaries. Second, parents have much more real life experience then their child, and every (almost) parent desire the best for the child (Asuna's parents are not exception). Surely they have selfish intentions also (every human has it) - eventually child will support the parents on their old age. That's the human nature. To claim that people aren't greedy is not reasonable. So that was a bit off-topic. Asuna's mother value material well-being and she thinks that it is the right path of life to chose, and she thinks that if Asuna marry a rich man it will make her happy. She thinks that the image in the society is the most important thing (she wants Asuna to change schools) both for Asuna and for herself, since if the child is famous, the fame goes for the parents as well. But self-benefit isn't in the first place for her mother, since their family is already very rich (father is a former of CEO of RECT Inc.). Only the honor of the family (parents and their child). However, Asuna value the spiritual values, she thinks that love, honesty, moral are more important things than the richness and strength. That's the source of conflict between family members. To give absolute freedom for the child is not a good judgment, since child ofter goes not in the right direction. And her mother knows that. She sees, that Asuna is going to chose wrong path of life, because of her lack of life experience, so mother tries to push her to the right one. Mother knows, that spiritual values will not let Asuna to happiness, contrary, she will suffer. That's the way her mother sees the world. However, Asuna knows, that parents are superior, she respect them, so she doesn't want to insolently oppose them. Yet, she still doesn't accept her parents ambitions. So she sees herself as a fighter. She learned in SAO, mostly from Kirito, that material things (strength, richness, fame) are not everything, they are only temporary. Second, she experienced already, that her parents are not always right (father offered Sugou to marry her and that leaded her to endless suffer). She wants to be a warrior like she was in SAO in order to be able to chose the right path to go - the one she wants (with Kirito) and oppose parents, or the one her parents want to offer. She doesn't want to oppose parents, because she respect them and love them, yet she doesn't want to abandon the path she wants to chose herself - both with Kirito. That makes her suffer. That's why she wants to find power (be a legendary warrior, like in SAO) to make a right decision. To draw a conclusion, It's not right to claim, that her mother is a bad person or that she is a bad parent. She teach her daughter the way she thinks is right. Plus, she doesnt push Asuna too much, she doesnt strictly prohibit VR, to meet Kirito etc. Well later she gives up, tho. |
TapuTapuuDec 9, 2014 9:53 AM
| I bawled, thankfully no one was around, used about 3 tissues T__T Asuna, show Yuuki a great time with what's left!!! |
 |
y123y said: Asuna: Kirito, please help me find this Yuuki person in real life. I dont know how to find her. Kirito: Dont worry harem member number 1. Give me 10 minutes......... Got it. This is her address, the hospital that she is staying in, her phone number, how old she is. Asuna: THANK YOU BOYFRIEND!!!!!!! Kirito: No problem. And if you know a person for my new technology to assist them in, let me know. Asuna: Haha boyfriend. I doubt ill meet a person who needs that technology right away. LOL |
| So in the end its still your typical shonen. I think this amount of pathos and forced drama hurt the show more than helping it. |
Craftworld_MM said: I liked the episode but I think that they're putting Asuna/Kirito relationship to a back seat. I already think that that crazy mother of hers will be the end of them. I hope I'm wrong. P.S I hate how they got rid of Sinon. I mean I'm a Kirito/Asuna fan aswell but she could've been given some roll :( Don't expect too much Romance in this series. Romance is always in the background for SAO. Yohimo_asakura said: In what kind of dream world are you livin that parents can't threat the child and nurture him the way they see the best? That's just naive, as trying to be a God of justice. First of all, child is parent's "property" - they gave him birth, they worked hard to maintain the child, the family, they gave him the food, the clothes, the shelter. They have all the rights to nurture their own child how they want, of course in logical boundaries. Second, parents have much more real life experience then their child, and every (almost) parent desire the best for the child (Asuna's parents are not exception). Surely they have selfish intentions also (every human has it) - eventually child will support the parents on their old age. That's the human nature. To claim that people aren't greedy is not reasonable. So that was a bit off-topic. No that's not a human nature. CHildren are not a property, WTF. Children are their own individuals. Parents have the right to GUIDE children, not impose their will upon them. What you are proclaiming is incredibly archaic and problematic. Asuna's mother value material well-being and she thinks that it is the right path of life to chose, and she thinks that if Asuna marry a rich man it will make her happy. She thinks that the image in the society is the most important thing (she wants Asuna to change schools) both for Asuna and for herself, since if the child is famous, the fame goes for the parents as well. But self-benefit isn't in the first place for her mother, since their family is already very rich (father is a former of CEO of RECT Inc.). Only the honor of the family (parents and their child). However, Asuna value the spiritual values, she thinks that love, honesty, moral are more important things than the richness and strength. That's the source of conflict between family members. To give absolute freedom for the child is not a good judgment, since child ofter goes not in the right direction. And her mother knows that. She sees, that Asuna is going to chose wrong path of life, because of her lack of life experience, so mother tries to push her to the right one. Mother knows, that spiritual values will not let Asuna to happiness, contrary, she will suffer. That's the way her mother sees the world. Tldr: Her mother has no right to push her own beliefs unto Asuna Parents pushing their ideals and beliefs are the reason why half the world is still frozen in homophobic religion-driven atmosphere. Parents job is to guide their children into finding hteir way, NOT defining their way for them. However, Asuna knows, that parents are superior, she respect them, so she doesn't want to insolently oppose them. Parents are not superior, wtf. Parents are EQUALS. IF they are "Superior" , well, time for child services to interfere. Yet, she still doesn't accept her parents ambitions. So she sees herself as a fighter. She learned in SAO, mostly from Kirito, that material things (strength, richness, fame) are not everything, they are only temporary. Second, she experienced already, that her parents are not always right (father offered Sugou to marry her and that leaded her to endless suffer). She wants to be a warrior like she was in SAO in order to be able to chose the right path to go - the one she wants (with Kirito) and oppose parents, or the one her parents want to offer. She doesn't want to oppose parents, because she respect them and love them, yet she doesn't want to abandon the path she wants to chose herself - both with Kirito. That makes her suffer. That's why she wants to find power (be a legendary warrior, like in SAO) to make a right decision. TlDR: asuna needs ot learn to stand up against her parents or she will lose her identity. To draw a conclusion, It's not right to claim, that her mother is a bad person or that she is a bad parent. She teach her daughter the way she thinks is right. Plus, she doesnt push Asuna too much, she doesnt strictly prohibit VR, to meet Kirito etc. Her mother is not a bad person but IS a bad parent. She pushes and Asuna needs to learn to push bakc |
|
| You can accept it or not to accept it but it was throughout the entire history. It always was in such way and it still is. That comes from nature. Parents speech is always decisive. Parents are not superior, wtf. Parents are EQUALS. IF they are "Superior" , well, time for child services to interfere. Seriously, what the fuck are you smoking? Parents ARE superior to children, they have all rights to nurture them the way they wants, they are older, children are parents in any meaning of the word. How are they EQUALS, if children are vitally dependent on parents? Who are the children without parents? mmm? parents can live without children, children cannot to do the same without parents. Parents are superior in any way, except that both are humans. Who guides the children through the world in their early days, mm? not parents? It's already, in your words, pushing BELIEFS and IDEALS. Why are children from asocial families usually unhappy? Because they lack parents. Why are they usually bad nurtured with bad manners? Because parents are authority to them. Children owes the parents in entire their life. Parents serve children (youth) -> children serve parents (senescence). Asuna respect older, she respect her parents for many things they gave her. And because she values the spiritual values , she feels even greater obligation to respect her parents. Morals and family are values for her, so she wont oppose parents. Tldr: Her mother has no right to push her own beliefs unto Asuna Already explained. Parents pushing their ideals and beliefs are the reason why half the world is still frozen in homophobic religion-driven atmosphere. Parents job is to guide their children into finding hteir way, NOT defining their way for them. I already explained this also. Mother sees that Asuna chooses bad path, so she takes the actions. She tries to push her back to right way. Yet she still doesn't strictly force Asuna to do what mother wants, she tries to convince her (she doesnt prohibit VR, where is Asuna's true home, mother understands her. Neither she prohibits to date Kirito. Asuna's mother is not a fool, she understands what Asuna experienced in SAO and what this world means to her. That's why she doesnt take the strict actions and only tries to negotiate with Asuna. But pushes her harder than before) TlDR: asuna needs ot learn to stand up against her parents or she will lose her identity. NO, NOPE, not at all. She needs to find courage to make decisions, NOT how to oppose her parents, she is unconfident person, like Kirito. Man is always free to make decision, but she doesn't want a consequences - she doesnt want to broke with Kirito and marry someone her parents chose, nor she wants to oppose her parents, or even fight with them, because she respect THEM and FAMILY. I already explained it above with wall of text. It smells like you didn't even read and still blindly state your arguments. Or you are simply Hippies victim. |
TapuTapuuDec 9, 2014 2:33 PM
| Wow. Big improvement over the past few episodes! Now we have something REAL at stake. And this medical application is fascinating. So many possibilities for making the final months of a terminal patient's life more pleasant. Such a sad situation though. Well, now we know why they call themselves "Sleeping Knights".. I hope this upturn in quality of the story line continues. This was a really fascinating and enjoyable episode. |
ROGUEonDUTY said: I think this amount of pathos and forced drama hurt the show more than helping it. Here I was thinking I was the only one thinking this way. What's even more is that, were I in Yuuki's position, I'd hate her seeing being all teary and apologetic. How often has she had to live through people trying to give her pity for her situation. Surely it sucks, but I'd rather have a friend who would live the days instead of trying to comfort the thought you will die shortly. Anyhow, I'm getting fed up by the lack of interesting content in this show. Every time when it seems something fun or cool is going to happen it turns into the dumb forced drama nonsense. (And why is every person a freaking female?! Is it seriously impossible for Kirito to know more than 2 men?) |
VikopaulumDec 10, 2014 6:25 AM
     |
| Wow. This was unexpected. The feels train just ran me over when I was not on guard. I really liked the opening before.. NOW IT MAKES ME SAD. This was a gem. My goodness. Very enjoyable episode and excellently paced. Wow. |
| look at my rating for sao now this episode makes me wanna question my rating because i loved this episode to bad 20 other episodes are shit to me |
john100 said: Yohimo_asakura said: Seriously, what the fuck are you smoking? Parents ARE superior to children, they have all rights to nurture them the way they wants, they are older, children are parents in any meaning of the word. what tha fuck.. you serious?! i feel bad for your future kids.. they gonna hate life and you good luck with that man What?... No, they are not hating me at all. Alright. Family inner relationship are common theme in modern world, modern literature etc. So there may appear some people who are interested in such discussions. So let's start from the beginning. First of all, I think I shouldn't have said that children are "property" of parents, what I mean was not in direct implications. Parents ARE superior to children - when children are young parents are superior in both moral and material things. But parents are superior to children morally in their entire life. Parents have more life experience, because they are older, they've seen much wider world than children (in most cases). Parent can live without children, while children cannot live without parent, because they simply lack wisdom and experience, not to mention financial things. So parents have all the rights to nurture children the way they see the best. The happiness of parents themselves are connected with happiness of their children also from both material and moral sides. Every normal parent wants happiness for the children. However, it's not a secret, that parents have egoistic intentions also (to talk about material things) - first, they want to extend the tribe, second, they also need something to serve them in old age. Parents work for the children their youth and children serve for parents when parents get old. That settles a lifetime cycle. Children must respect their parents because they are older, more experienced and because they raised them, and must listen to them. Parent's word is decisive. To make children equal to you as a parent is a bad thing. It is called a spoil. He will not respect you, what to say about other people, especially older ones. Children have to understand what is parent to him and how dumb he is actually, to have motivation to improve himself. That's why mild guiding is bad thing. "A good kick in the ass is way better than a friendly clap to the shoulder" - folk wisdom (literally translated from Lithuanian). Everything depends from what point of view you look into such things - from children side, from parents side or from the outside. From the outside you may think that pushing (what are doing Asuna's mother) is a bad thing and a good thing at the same time, but from parents shoes, they think they are doing right pushing children to chose rational path of life. People value different values - one value Spiritual values, while others value Material values. It often appears, that parents value material values, but children values spiritual values (Asuna's and her parents situation). Obviously, in such families often conflicts arise. PUSHING is not equal to DICTATION or ORDERING, but its not GUIDING also. Pushing is still more democratic thing than dictation, which is completely authoritarian, archaic. I'm not saying that ordering or dictation is the very good things. It's not a good idea to give child absolute freedom either, since because of their lack of experience they often chose wrong things as values and wrong life paths. When people chose wrong path it is reasonable to push them in order to make them go right path of life. Asuna's mother sees that Asuna is taking wrong paths. She thinks that spiritual values, that Asuna is valuing, will not let her to happiness. Mother takes actions, she make pressure on Asuna. Mother isn't dictating her, if she wanted Asuna would be already married with that rich man and changed to better school. However, she only threatens Asuna, she makes pressure but with a bit stricter measures. Asuna's mother is not a fool, she understands parent-children relationship, she understand what Asuna experienced in SAO, that's why she didn't prohibit VR, nor she prohibited to date Kirito. However, she 's not giving Asuna freedom too, because she sees that the path Asuna chooses is wrong. Later on, So it's really not right to call her bad parent, even if she values material things and takes not the best actions, which leaded Asuna to suffering (because of Asuna's own lack of courage to chose between things - she doesn't want to oppose parents, because she respect them, nor she wants to leave her own path.) From mother point of view, she want's the best both for herself and Asuna. They are rich family, the image in society is important thing for Asuna's parents, and they think that it's the one thing Asuna should be living for. But it's not making them bad parents. Now imagine your children would take wrong path in your eyes, for example he is starting to use drugs, you wouldn't do anything? I don't think so. But children may think that it is good thing from his point of view. That would affect your own life too. Or you are billionaire and your son is a miner - that would affect your esteem, because your child is not nurtured well (the others will think that way). That's also important for Asuna's parents. From their point of view they are doing right things - nurturing child as best as they can. There is another talk, if parents are ordering or pushing only because of their own fame, honor and richness. They are not good parents, probably. But I see Asuna's parents only as a half part of this. They want happiness for Asuna too. Everything depends for what purpose parent ordering/pushing children. Also depends from what point of view are you looking into family relationships, parent actions, children actions. But IMO, even if Asuna's mother may not be bad looking from different points of view, I still don't like her, because of her dumb values. The image in society of her and Asuna is the most important thing for her (they are rich already, so money is not a problem for them). |
| Holy crap. |
Vikopaulum said: ROGUEonDUTY said: I think this amount of pathos and forced drama hurt the show more than helping it. Here I was thinking I was the only one thinking this way. What's even more is that, were I in Yuuki's position, I'd hate her seeing being all teary and apologetic. How often has she had to live through people trying to give her pity for her situation. Surely it sucks, but I'd rather have a friend who would live the days instead of trying to comfort the thought you will die shortly. Anyhow, I'm getting fed up by the lack of interesting content in this show. Every time when it seems something fun or cool is going to happen it turns into the dumb forced drama nonsense. (And why is every person a freaking female?! Is it seriously impossible for Kirito to know more than 2 men?) exactly. I feel like the responsible staff had no real talent for pacing or actual drama but prefer to just add more girls to his harem. Unfortunately one quickly finds himself written of as "typical hater" |
Khpconan said: ROGUEonDUTY said: exactly. I feel like the responsible staff had no real talent for pacing or actual drama but prefer to just add more girls to his harem. Unfortunately one quickly finds himself written of as "typical hater" While it's fucking true that the author doesn't even try to create realistic masculine characters, which is pathetic... do you realize that Yuuki is in no way a Kirito's harem member? She barely knows who he is. And while I particularly enjoy Mother's Rosario drama... I can understand people saying it's forced or badly paced. oh dont get me wrong, im on mobile so im relying on short answers. im fully aware that yuuki is not part of the brainless harem filled with clichés, i was referring to sinon with this part :) |
ROGUEonDUTY said: Khpconan said: While it's fucking true that the author doesn't even try to create realistic masculine characters, which is pathetic... do you realize that Yuuki is in no way a Kirito's harem member? She barely knows who he is. And while I particularly enjoy Mother's Rosario drama... I can understand people saying it's forced or badly paced. oh dont get me wrong, im on mobile so im relying on short answers. im fully aware that yuuki is not part of the brainless harem filled with clichés, i was referring to sinon with this part :) Oh you mean the girl who already got over her crush for Kirito, only shows up for raids and does not even bother spending time with the rest and no longer has any interest in it? Suuure. |
|
| The #feels in this episode is too stronk, though the 2x episodes before this weren't even impressive.. |
 Forum set by secret santa |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 24 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )-Karoshi- - Dec 20, 2014 |
618 |
by MinaseNagi
»»
Yesterday, 6:11 PM |
|
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 4 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jul 26, 2014 |
958 |
by maki_evergarden
»»
Mar 17, 9:33 AM |
|
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 16 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )tsubasalover - Oct 25, 2014 |
289 |
by erixqh
»»
Feb 22, 12:26 PM |
|
Poll: » Sword Art Online II Episode 2 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jul 12, 2014 |
762 |
by minu11
»»
Jan 26, 5:10 AM |
|
» While you're watching Season 2Bijou146 - Jan 14 |
23 |
by katnissmaezie
»»
Jan 24, 11:11 PM |