Psycho-Pass 2 Episode 9 Discussion

Epicenter said:
I'll never understand why or how people put other creatures like dogs over humans. -_-

Beatrice-KF said:
There is never enough dakka.

Can someone explain what's the point of the plot ? I understand the motives of Kamui, but wtf is wrong with Sybil ? They know Kamui wants to somehow destroy Sybil, but the best thing they can do is to mess with their inspectors along with the enemy. It's like, you're sieged in a castle, and you destroy your own walls just because it's funny.

Epicenter said:
I'll never understand why or how people put other creatures like dogs over humans. -_-

Rayzer said:

The first paragraph is wrong. He was an idiot. He didn't understand it's a force applause so she's faking it and she needs to follow their orders even if she don't want to do it because she wanted to live.

mdubs said:


Her hue is clear during this, she isn't faking. The review also mentions that.

Rayzer said:

Dude she's somewhat controlling/keeping her Psycho-Pass clear. It's obvious she's terrified about Sybil System's true form.
And hell what's the meaning of that closed-up shaky eyes if she's not faking it? It's written all over her face.

Lastly, Set aside the hate while watching because there's important details that could be miss.
Then after watching/finishing the episode feel free to hate again.

BlackShock_ said:
Is Mika not someone who has somewhat of an ability to keep her hue/psycho pass clear? From what Togane said last episode. he was surprised, when he realized her hue hardly changed despite all the revelations.

My thoughts?
Mika is faking it to stay alive, but her hue somehow stays clear.

money4me247 said:


as other people have said, season 1 sybil recognized it had flaws. sybil was shown in season 1 not to really care about whether it lived up to an "ideal judgement system without any flaws" as sybil will bend the rules when it suited it. this was demonstrated by the times that it overwritten non-lethal mode into lethal mode despite the psycho pass numbers in order to advance its own goals.

omnipotence paradox is silly. sibyl cannot judge itself because it is comprised of criminally asymptomatic people, which are by definition people that sibyl cannot judge. sibyl's actions should logically be geared towards self-preservation & maintenance of status quo... not philosophical musing about whether it is omnipotent. sibyl never claimed to be omnipotent & unflawed.

money4me247 said:


Sybil is just being evil just because. New PP writers don't understand the core principles/themes of this show.

Most of the season 1 ideas were just thrown out the window. season 1 sybil was a "morally gray but not evil" SYSTEM that was only shown to break the rules for self-preservation of its secret (when they killed Enforcer Shusei). While Sybil had certain huge flaws (unable to judge a small percent of criminally asymptomatic people & judging proximity/exposure to crime as crime), it still made kinda sense for a society to adopt it.

I feel like season 1 was stronger because sybil was a morally ambiguous SYSTEM. It simply imposed a set of rules that guided the real characters' actions. Despite being brains comprised of criminally asymptomatic people, sybil only did two actions in that season (express a desire to capture Makishima and eliminate people who discovered its secret). These two actions fall into line with sybil's overall protocol & design. The show was about how society unfolds & how characters act within this universe with such judgement system in place.

In season 2, Sybil is not just the "rules of this world," but rather an actual CHARACTER... an evil CHARACTER. However, the writers forgot that characters must have a personality and motivations. Then, the character acts logically according those those things.

Sybil is shown in this season to manipulate electronics/whatever to kill all opposition & random innocent bystanders in the season of hell, allowing unethical experiments to create AA people (don't see the point to this at all), trying to color its own inspectors black (god knows why), and telling random people its huge secret. Sybil's actions no longer have any real purpose or point, but its just doing evil things just so it establishes itself as a super bad guy. (in case any viewers were dumb enough in season 1 not to see the huge unethical problems with a system like sybil)

Doesn't logically make any sense for a powerful system like Sybil to resort to ...lol... traffic accidents to stop an opposition judgement program. Don't even see how those two things even relate at all. Don't see the point of making AA people as they occur naturally. Don't see the point of corrupting and terminating its own loyal employees that are actively advancing Sybil's goals. Don't see the point of telling Mika everything when she has not shown any potential at all besides being able to google stuff & bitch.

The point is that there really is no point or logic to sybil's actions anymore. It is just being evil because the writers.


Exactly. This season is just information dumps or contrived situations for twists/shock value. Absolutely no character development at all.

Season 1 was cool because you see the characters develop and act within this weird sci-fi setting. The gore/murders/shocks/twists were interesting because how it changed the characters that we cared about. It has about the characters... not the twists. Season 2 is all about playing around the established rules of the universe to make it seem like interesting & cool twists when its really just dumb contrived scenarios that are making less & less sense and becoming more & more unbelievable.

Main villian #1 Kamui is 184 dead people stitched together... this somehow arbitrarily makes him invisible to scanners... he holds a grudge at sybil because sybil caused traffic accidents. Has the super power to clear psycho passes due to surgery. Has a crew of illegal aliens who look like higher ups from organ transplants that allow him to do everything from complex surgery, advanced holo programming, expert hacking, and mad drug/therapy skills. main villian #2 sybil + togane has the main focus of wanting to corrupt all their own inspectors for no real good reason & seem pretty apathetic to kamui.

Let's not have any character development & kill a bunch of randoms for shock value. Kill off a bunch of Inspectors/Enforcers that we don't know anything about at the drone factory. Kill off a bunch of 'evil' Kamui cohorts at a dinner that we don't know anything about. Introduce token grandmother with no real meaningful character interaction with akane just to kill off for shock value.

shippos said:
just when i thought things couldn't get worse. i wonder how akane will react and what her psycho pass will be now

mishoo said:
Can someone please explain the whole deal with the illegal immigrants in the series? This episode made things even more confusing for me. Were the immigrants brought over to replace the high ranking officials by wearing the holos? Was the politician in the beginning an immigrant wearing a holo or Kamui? Or was he both perhaps at different times? What also really confused me was the dinner party scene. The people that Kamui enacted revenge upon were people who profited from the plane crash/season of hell? What was up with the animals? Were the immigrants wearing animal holos? Why were they disfigured and why would the immigrants be killed off?
Thank you for making things more clear!

gedata said:


Puppies are considered to be the epitome of cuteness by many. Killing them off is a quick and easy way to garner some kind of cheap emotional appeal. As much as I dislike Elfen Lied, the puppy killing their at least served some point. Over here it's just "how could they kill those cute doggies! Doesn't that make Sybil messed up! They're totally bad people", y'know, something that we already knew.

r0ykun said:
I wonder if the movie is a sequel to this season or a brand new story. Did they specify that already?

Rayzer said:

Dude she's somewhat controlling/keeping her Psycho-Pass clear. It's obvious she's terrified about Sybil System's true form.
And hell what's the meaning of that closed-up shaky eyes if she's not faking it? It's written all over her face.

Lastly, Set aside the hate while watching because there's important details that could be miss.
Then after watching/finishing the episode feel free to hate again.

LucasMV said:


Sibyl never claimed to be omnipotent, right. BUT it actually said that it doesn't need to be perfect, it just needs PEOPLE to believe it is PERFECT. That's the only way people would trust so much in a supossedly computarized system that has no flaws. Akane's thoughts about the omnipotence paradox are probably an attempt to understand Kamui's point of view and what does he want to do. It is not that hard to understand, Kamui wants to let the PEOPLE know that Sibyl is not the perfect system they believe it is. He probably wants to create a situation where Sibyl can't act without falling in a paradox. If it can't judge itself, its not perfect. And if it can judge itself, then it cannot judge others anymore. We are aware of that, but the citizens in that world aren't.

Besides, Sibyl overwriting the dominators doesn't count as recognizing its flaws. Since they always recognized its flaws to themselves, just not to the society. I mean, those situations were things like Kagari's murder, so nobody would know what they did.

LucasMV said:

I'm going to try and answer to the main "problems" you listed.
15 years ago, we don't really know the way things were. Since the technologies to extract a brain from a living person were being developed, and were tested on Kamui, for all we know Sibyl wasn't as powerful as it is right now. Besides, the Panopticon was an alternative system proposed by the Ministry of Economy. It was being tested at the time, and one of the things it controlled while being tested was the traffic. It makes a lot of sense that if the amount of accidents is much higher than before, Panopticon would have been blamed. So its completely realistic for Sibyl to sabotage it like that to be the only one ruling society.

There are many reasons for wanting to create AA people artificially. Experimenting on how they work so they can deal with them, possibly add them to the Sibyl system, also human curiosity is another reason. You'd be surprised at all the kind of experiments that are done in real life.

About the Sibyl wanting to cloud inspectors thing... Well, Togane said in this episode that they killed the doctor because he knew too much. Probably the same reason all the other 5 inspectors had been clouded and killed by Togane over the years: they became a problem for Sibyl, they knew too much, etc.

They told Mika the truth because of her hue not raising much after knowing the AA secret and that Togane was her son. Since they eventually want to tell the truth to the people, testing it with an ideal citizen that doesn't get her hue clouded easily is an interesting experiment for them.

Also, Sibyl isn't apathetic to Kamui, it just can't tell the truth to their inspectors. They are waiting and dealing with the problem in their own way, trying not to look bad in the process.
And, more importantly, Kamui doesn't hold a grudge to Sibyl JUST because of the plane crash. They did something even worst, that was Misako Togane's experimenting on him, testing if the technologies they were developing were effective, and doing that massive surgery to test it out. That fact made him be completely left out of society. Not only the system didn't recognize him as an existent being, but every person he approached to, ran away because accepting that there is someone that doesn't even exist for Sibyl is like doubting the system itself, which is a reason to raise their psycho passes.
Once he found out the truth about why he was the way he is, he plotted this revenge, and probably wants to bring down Sibyl (for causing Hell's season and not recognizing him) as well as judging the actual people behind his surgery (that happens to be connected with the system itself, wonder if Kamui knows that).

Anyway, I'm really liking this season a lot. It's great so far. I still like S1 more, and I still like Makishima more than Kamui. But I think this is a very good season, it may have some flaws, but I don't think they are big enough to make it that bad at all. It's the minor things that every show has, and it's even debatable if they are plot holes given that the show recognizes them and explains them, if you like the explanation or not is something different.

Although the majority of people seem to be closer to my opinion (that this season is very good, judging by most comments here and on other sites), I am kinda surprised that some people really just don't like it.
I guess it's a matter of taste.

P.S: Sorry for the long comment.

Alfonse said:
This season..I'm not understanding...maybe it's just my incompetence, but why exactly is sybil trying to make Akane's hue black? Wouldn't that hurt them in the long run? If she's judged and forced to be an enforcer/dead, then they'd lose an inspector who follows everything that sybil lays out. Or are they trying to figure out if she's criminally asymptomatic so they can add her to her brain collection?

I also don't get what the point of telling Shimotski all this information even was. Why tell it to her? She doesn't really seem like someone who would really do much with the information. Kasei should've just said "Whatever, we'll look into it" when Shimotski showed her the report.

I'm also not really understanding Kamui's character, his motives, nor his followers. So we've gathered that Kamui is essentially someone who was made by the organs of 184 different people (which, because of a plane crash, should not be able to function, given how much damage that causes to internal organs, but sci-fi, w/e). How does this allow him to avoid scanners? And it's established that he hates sybil because they caused traffic accidents/airplane crashes. Was it explained why they did this? I think I missed it/forgot.
His followers are all illegal aliens disguised as holos of higher ups, correct? Why are they helping Kamui? Why did Kamui and his friend burn those illegal immigrants and officials?

Why exactly does sybil not care for Kamui's motivations right now? He's a much bigger threat to the system than Akane or Shimotski. Why aren't they taking any actions to shut him down? Kasei seems to be completely unfazed by his actions.

Tougane is said to be a latent criminal who was able to raise inspector's psychopasses, where then all of them died due to their PP's being too high. But then we see Tougane killing puppies and maintaining a clear PP, so how is he a latent criminal? Why was he created artificially? What exactly were they doing? Why are they doing AA when criminally asymptomatic people already exist naturally? What is sybil's goal here?

I know some of my questions may be just things that can probably be found in the episodes themselves, but with all the info dumps and all the exposition, it's just hard to keep up.

I also feel as if they just kind randomly pull something out of the blue. Like this stockholder came out of nowhere and he's somehow linked to Kamui because he went to the same elementary school. And then him and Kamui just decid to kill a bunch of people with a very vague understanding of why they did it. There's nothing that leads up to it; it just happens. Kasei's "plan" to trap Shimotski is another example, as well as the discovery of those 184 students. But I'm probably just nitpicking.

Any answers/replies will be great!