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Dec 23, 2014 3:02 AM

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If Nasu didn't at least hold his hand a little then Uro would have to have been very familiar with the world he was writing into. Considering he was a fan I guess that makes sense.

I just realized you might be the anti-fai, your both always so black & white

It's neither 100 nor 0 but somewhere in the middle, we just have no idea where it is.

insan3priest said:
Senseless violence/rape in and of itself isn't a bad thing as far as being represented in fiction, because that kind of stuff can in fact BE senseless. I think it's more that people don't like that these themes are pretty much guaranteed to be tackled in a Urobuchi work. Personally, it's not that big a deal to me. If that is what the guy finds fascinating to write about, more power to him.


Only when it's truly senseless by all means of the word does it irk me. I guess it also comes down to his antagonists, whether it's the big bad or the citizens that are gangbanger thugs at heart I just find them so mind dumbingly shallow. They have nothing other than being bad.

I guess maybe in writing a story like crazy-pass you need some of them, it was the point of cybil system.

Disclaimer: I did enjoy Phsyco-pass
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:05 AM

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Senseless violence isnt the problem.

The child murder shit in Fate/Zero had nothing to do with the story.

Like, when that chick got choke raped, that was a major part of berserker guys story, and the future story of sakura.

Caster murdering the children was just an excuse to display uncensored grimdark shit for edgy teens.

The only over arching reference to it was rider seeing it and being like "wow thats fucked up". Oh and I guess Rin's meaningless friend getting kidnapped.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:11 AM

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SolvitePriest said:
Senseless violence isnt the problem.

The child murder shit in Fate/Zero had nothing to do with the story.

Like, when that chick got choke raped, that was a major part of berserker guys story, and the future story of sakura.

Caster murdering the children was just an excuse to display uncensored grimdark shit for edgy teens.

The only over arching reference to it was rider seeing it and being like "wow thats fucked up". Oh and I guess Rin's meaningless friend getting kidnapped.


Yeah that's what I meant by senseless, those sidestory's felt very butcher. I'm personally not a fan but many people like it.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:11 AM

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So everything in FZ scream "nasu didnt do shit" because of the mid boss who wasn't even relevant outside the Mion river battle.

I reeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaallllllyy have nothing to counter this.

Mangalist-san said:
SolvitePriest said:


Urobuchi writes the same exact story every time and changes names.



exactly this

And Nasu's works are always the same

"something something Alaya's fault/goal"
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Dec 23, 2014 3:14 AM

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WrongPriest said:
If Nasu didn't at least hold his hand a little then Uro would have to have been very familiar with the world he was writing into. Considering he was a fan I guess that makes sense.
So WHY would Nasu and Urobuchi lie about it?

I mean Urobuchi doesnt seem to care and neither does Nasu since he even makes fun of himself based on the FANDOM's reactions(Tsukihime 2).


That's literally baseless argument vs the authors' words.
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Dec 23, 2014 3:16 AM

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CapsuleCore said:
SolvitePriest said:


If Nasu was sitting there with him, reviewing every little bit he wrote, Nasu is the editor.

That didnt happen. You guys can masterbate yourselves to Nasu all you want, but he didnt read every line of fate zero pre production.

More likely Urobuchi showed him storyboards and some grimdark bullshit annoyed him.


Seriously, you are even worse. You're not making any sense. You have no arguments besides "this is how I believe it went". Nasu was asking Urobuchi to change minor details like the name of a non-plot-relevant character (Kotone), that alone should tell you that he must have read Urobuchi's drafts and every line preproduction. Fate/Zero was still deeply connected to FSN and FHA and in the end Nasu decided which parts should be rewritten and which not. An example of a work where he lets the author do what he wants is Prisma Illya.

Some events, like Kayneth's and Lancer's deaths, a Master who went heretic and became the target of everyone else (Team Caster), Saber's fear for squids because they didn't stop regenerating, the Excalibur usage on the river, or Rider and Gil bashing Saber because of her ideals, had to happen and were entrusted to Urobuchi by Nasu. How exactly it would happen was probably left to Urobuchi, but Nasu certainly had the right to read and veto against parts he disliked. They had continuous meet-ups, deny it all you want. Unless you want to tell me that Nasu was obviously lying, when he wrote it in the FZ Volume 1 postface.


Proofread =/= Write.

Nasu did not write Fate/Zero.

You say he didnt write it, then you imply he wrote it.

The reason Fate/Zero feels different is because Nasu didnt write it. That is fact. Pure and simple fact.

Also LOL "entrusted to Urobuchi".

You act like this is life changing work. Its a fucking cartoon/short book for teens.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:23 AM

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And how exactly are FZ and FSN or the other works of Nasu different?

Just because of two characters that affect the story in one battle?
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Dec 23, 2014 3:24 AM

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WrongPriest said:
HentaiPriest said:
But only Ryuunosuke was the one without any redeemable features doing evil stuff.
Everyone else, even if they were assholes or delusional due to health had something to make them understand them and even like them.
Well more than what Leo, Cornelius,Nero Chaos and a few more had.


True, those are some good exceptions. I didn't think of Cornelius..

I disagree on Leo though.
His backstory just didnt click with me.Yes I could blame his Origin for his shit but when Nasu tried to mix in his backstory I just didn't find it so tragic.It isnt BULLSHIT like what I think about Shinji's, but I just cant understand him.
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Dec 23, 2014 3:26 AM

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HentaiPriest said:
And how exactly are FZ and FSN or the other works of Nasu different?

Just because of two characters that affect the story in one battle?


Because fate zero feels like it had a different writer, which it did.

If fate zero wasnt different people wouldnt incessantly bitch about it being different.

This wouldnt be a 24 page thread about how its different.

Say your opinion 200 more times. Type it til your fingers hurt. It wont make it true. Hence why you have 20 thousand posts on two fucking subforums from spamming your same opinions.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:31 AM

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Lol at this thread, that's why I barely go into Fate subs anymore. This aggresive attitude of some is really cancerous.

You make it look like we are completely wrong or retarded if we like F/Z more than F/SN for some or another aspect. What's wrong in liking F/Z more because of its characters? You are so fucking defensive over F/SN it's not even funny.

I don't know if we are all watching the same series. I don't know what will happen in 2nd cour but right now the amount of annoying sol, cooking scenes, Shirou and Rin's interactions, Taiga just killed F/SN I had in my eyes.
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Dec 23, 2014 3:32 AM

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robis798 said:
Lol at this thread, that's why I barely go into Fate subs anymore. This aggresive attitude of some is really cancerous.

You make it look like we are completely wrong or retarded if we like F/Z more than F/SN for some or another aspect. What's wrong in liking F/Z more because of its characters? You are so fucking defensive over F/SN it's not even funny.


Why would you like one more than the other? According to these jabronis they are both exactly the same.

I personally enjoyed Fate/Zeros ensemble cast, which i think it handled well, as well as the subversion and intrigue of Kiritsugu's fighting style.

Fate Stay Night is typical shounen "I'm the hero" story with extremely strong execution, but its still cliche at its core.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:33 AM

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So much for arguments.
Please point out those characters that are so different from Nasu's.
Point out "edgy" stuff that are worse than Nasu's.
Point out the themes that are different.


"Other people say it too"

Well other people say that FZ is better because of adults too.Doesnt mean their opinion is valid.
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Dec 23, 2014 3:34 AM

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robis798 said:
Lol at this thread, that's why I barely go into Fate subs anymore. This aggresive attitude of some is really cancerous.

You make it look like we are completely wrong or retarded if we like F/Z more than F/SN for some or another aspect. What's wrong in liking F/Z more because of its characters? You are so fucking defensive over F/SN it's not even funny.
So you ignore the ones that come here without any argument and you bash the fans because they have nothing better to do?Especially the ones that havent read one of the two?

yeah...
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Dec 23, 2014 3:34 AM

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HentaiPriest said:
So much for arguments.
Please point out those characters that are so different from Nasu's.
Point out "edgy" stuff that are worse than Nasu's.
Point out the themes that are different.


"Other people say it too"

Well other people say that FZ is better because of adults too.Doesnt mean their opinion is valid.


THIS IS YOUR OPINION.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:36 AM

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Talking about dodging the issue/question and just resorting to spamming.
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Dec 23, 2014 3:37 AM

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HentaiPriest said:


Well other people say that FZ is better because of adults too.Doesnt mean their opinion is valid.


LOL. My opinion is not valid? Since when
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:37 AM

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HentaiPriest said:
Talking about dodging the issue/question and just resorting to spamming.


Do you even know what spamming means?

You cannot say fate stay night is better as a fact. That isnt a fact.

You cannot say Urobuchi shit isnt in fate zero. I dont know how you can even sort of say that with a straight face.

I've read fate stay night and the writing difference from fate zero is fucking night and day.

Maybe the anime seem similar, but the novels are very different.

I mean, at a very basic level, Fate/Zero doesnt stop every fucking day twice a day so everyone can eat together and talk about how cool having friends is.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:40 AM

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B-but.. having friends is cool.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:41 AM

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Could you imagine daily breakfast scenes with Kiritsugu and Saber in F/Z?
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:43 AM

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SolvitePriest said:
Could you imagine daily breakfast scenes with Kiritsugu and Saber in F/Z?


I'm gonna have to, because Fate/zero didn't give me that.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:43 AM

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WrongPriest said:
SolvitePriest said:
Could you imagine daily breakfast scenes with Kiritsugu and Saber in F/Z?


I'm gonna have to, because Fate/zero didn't give me that.


But its the same.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:47 AM

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robis798 said:
HentaiPriest said:


Well other people say that FZ is better because of adults too.Doesnt mean their opinion is valid.


LOL. My opinion is not valid? Since when
Liking something simply because it has adult characters is very close minded. Not to mention the age of the characters is irrelevant most of the time to the story and themes presented in it.

For example, what about adults do you like in F/Z? That they're mature? They're not really as mature as you think.
 
Dec 23, 2014 3:58 AM
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Thread Locked
And will remain locked. Thread has devolved into a terrible argument of bashing each other's opinions and spam. Thread was answered long ago as well—this thread has reached its point.
 
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