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Poll: Zankyou no Terror Episode 10 Discussion


Sep 19, 2014 5:06 PM

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ilyenacid said:
I think five redeemed herself in my eyes. At first I quite liked her, her grande entrance...and then after the airport incident and her not caring for human fatalities at all I kind of though wow she is some crazy bitch and in the end she had just a personal thing going on with nine not even with twelve. So yeah she was an interesting villain.

I think nine was never pissed at twelve, I would say he probably even expected that. I can`t imagine him being mad at his only left friend there. Twelve realized that as well...a little with Lisa`s pushing though. Still not sure what the point of Lisa is. If she does not have a major role in episode 11, than I think she is the most annoying character imo..I get that she was being bullied and all...but I can`t bring myself to like someone who apologizes all the time...


When I say redemption I meant your stereotypical anime redemption. All I'm saying is that in the end she didn't learn any sort of lesson that made her "more human" than she already was (not much) and I liked that. Through the observation of her actions we got to see what kind of person she had become due to the circumstances of her life, and it ties in with the themes of the show. I'm happy for you that you enjoyed her character. All in all I think she was alright, the execution of her character a little too over the top for me, but I did find her conceptually fitting for the show.

What's the point of Lisa? Well I personally see her just as a person rather than a character that fulfills some sort of role in the story. It's interesting that all the other main characters try to manipulate the world around them to achieve some sort of goal, noble or not, while Lisa is just there trying to live and connect with the people around her to the best of her abilities. The opposite can be said about The United States / Japan who are allies in name while they secretly pushing their own agendas.
 
Sep 19, 2014 5:13 PM

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Oh Five. You yandere. i guess she and Yuno hang out together sometimes....
Anyway, this episode left me in shock. I can't close my mouth while watching this.

 
Sep 19, 2014 6:21 PM

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There were so many unexpected moments in this episode.

I'm curious to find out more about Five and Nine's past now. Their relationship seems really complex, and I want to know just what happened in the past that led up to this episode.

I also would really like Lisa to have a bit more of an important role in the show. I understand that she's representative of certain things for Twelve and all that, but I was expecting her to have a little larger role. Maybe something will happen in this next episode that drastically changes the outcome.
 
Sep 19, 2014 7:57 PM

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shadowtsunami said:
I hope we get info on what Five's motives were because right now it just looks like she did all this to kiss him on the cheek lol.
It should be clear by now that all 5 wanted was to beat 9. (This should be clear since the airport episode)
She finally beat him this ep, and with no more reason to live she just suicided.
^ Add that to how she was going to die anyway and after she shot the FBI guy.
Modified by Momono, Sep 19, 2014 8:12 PM
 
Sep 19, 2014 7:57 PM

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Nero-chi said:
TripleSRank said:


May I ask if you could elaborate more on what is the universal perspective? Also ahhh that tracking the car scene really was fast, but I've gotten so used to this kind of BS. Now, I do agree with you that the purpose of Five in terms of the story was literally to provide something for the protagonists to fight against on "a level field" (I'm sorry Shibazaki;;;;;;) and quite honestly I would have loved to only see the "battle of wits" between Sphinx and the police force, but the 3-way clashing forces was also somewhat fun to watch as well.

However I do believe that there was some logical sense to her death. The premise behind this would be of Five wanting to beat Nine (she directly says this in this episode) She even says she would not let anyone else have Nine. This would imply she has been obsessed with beating Nine for a very long time now (as in the airport episode - Nine or Twelve makes the remark of her wanting to redo the chess match they had when they were kids.) She then says in this episode that because of Nine, Five had the willpower to stay alive up until now. (we've seen her had the ringing and the collapsing in previous episode/s, but of course this is all my interpretation of the events) Going back to the airport scuffle between them, the conditions of Nine's victory would be of the bomb on the airplane not killing people, (and I suppose side goal of saving Lisa too(for the Twelve!)).To me, I define the game that Five wants to win is for Nine to not get his way. If he doesn't get his way, then in a sense, he has lost. Thanks to Shibazaki's intervention, the plane was directed away and Nine got his wish. Therefore under this logic Five still hasn't beaten Nine. However in this episode, she's successfully delayed Nine's presence to the press conference. Now that she has beaten Nine in a weird sense, she no longer has any purpose in life. Now with that in mind, she could now live a rather mundane life, but so far she's possibly killed the FBI agent, her physical health has been called into attention (Clarence wanted her to see a doctor) and she's decreased the amount that the government of Japan would be willing to take BS in their country by the hands of the American government.

Finally, imagine Five's actions and general everything was supposed to be the entire thriller genre they put this show as-/shot

Well, "universal perspective" is just a colloquial term. The specific term in this case would be "limited third person narration". It means we see the point of view of multiple people. In ZnT's specific case, I'm referring to all parties involved- Sphinx, the police, and the FBI. If we were limited to one perspective or even two, it would be easier to create tension due to not knowing what the other parties are doing.

It's not so much that Five doesn't have a surface reason as it is that there's no solid motive behind that. Why does she want to beat Nine so badly? Because the Japanese government abused her? Or was she just mental by default? (Please keep in mind that her behavior is pretty typical cliché villainy unless she has a solid motivation.) Also, even with a good reason, she doesn't really contribute to the original story. She's just there, making things harder for Sphinx for no good (narrative) reason.

Actually, Sphinx and the FBI may have been on the same side if Five hadn't been present.

This show was pretty lackluster on all fronts story-wise. The ending might be pretty good, but I'm not expecting much.
Modified by TripleSRank, Sep 19, 2014 8:01 PM
 
Sep 19, 2014 8:26 PM

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TripleSRank said:
Nero-chi said:


May I ask if you could elaborate more on what is the universal perspective? Also ahhh that tracking the car scene really was fast, but I've gotten so used to this kind of BS. Now, I do agree with you that the purpose of Five in terms of the story was literally to provide something for the protagonists to fight against on "a level field" (I'm sorry Shibazaki;;;;;;) and quite honestly I would have loved to only see the "battle of wits" between Sphinx and the police force, but the 3-way clashing forces was also somewhat fun to watch as well.

However I do believe that there was some logical sense to her death. The premise behind this would be of Five wanting to beat Nine (she directly says this in this episode) She even says she would not let anyone else have Nine. This would imply she has been obsessed with beating Nine for a very long time now (as in the airport episode - Nine or Twelve makes the remark of her wanting to redo the chess match they had when they were kids.) She then says in this episode that because of Nine, Five had the willpower to stay alive up until now. (we've seen her had the ringing and the collapsing in previous episode/s, but of course this is all my interpretation of the events) Going back to the airport scuffle between them, the conditions of Nine's victory would be of the bomb on the airplane not killing people, (and I suppose side goal of saving Lisa too(for the Twelve!)).To me, I define the game that Five wants to win is for Nine to not get his way. If he doesn't get his way, then in a sense, he has lost. Thanks to Shibazaki's intervention, the plane was directed away and Nine got his wish. Therefore under this logic Five still hasn't beaten Nine. However in this episode, she's successfully delayed Nine's presence to the press conference. Now that she has beaten Nine in a weird sense, she no longer has any purpose in life. Now with that in mind, she could now live a rather mundane life, but so far she's possibly killed the FBI agent, her physical health has been called into attention (Clarence wanted her to see a doctor) and she's decreased the amount that the government of Japan would be willing to take BS in their country by the hands of the American government.

Finally, imagine Five's actions and general everything was supposed to be the entire thriller genre they put this show as-/shot

Well, "universal perspective" is just a colloquial term. The specific term in this case would be "limited third person narration". It means we see the point of view of multiple people. In ZnT's specific case, I'm referring to all parties involved- Sphinx, the police, and the FBI. If we were limited to one perspective or even two, it would be easier to create tension due to not knowing what the other parties are doing.

It's not so much that Five doesn't have a surface reason as it is that there's no solid motive behind that. Why does she want to beat Nine so badly? Because the Japanese government abused her? Or was she just mental by default? (Please keep in mind that her behavior is pretty typical cliché villainy unless she has a solid motivation.) Also, even with a good reason, she doesn't really contribute to the original story. She's just there, making things harder for Sphinx for no good (narrative) reason.

Actually, Sphinx and the FBI may have been on the same side if Five hadn't been present.

This show was pretty lackluster on all fronts story-wise. The ending might be pretty good, but I'm not expecting much.


Given the circumstances and environment five was in, I think five's motive has a good foundation but not necessarily a great one. perhaps they might explain it in the next episode or something. I also feel that there is something we might not expect concerning the nuke floating up, so I am anticipating that as well. With regards to the relevance of 12 and Lisa, bear in mind that Lisa is there to humanize both terrorists and that 12 had been greatly affected already. if he were to become irrelevant, the story would throw him aside completely in this episode, but he went back to help 9 based on his conviction and clarified thoughts thanks to Lisa
Anime gave me more life lessons than school
 
Sep 19, 2014 10:31 PM

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Thank you (or should I say 'zankyou') MAPPA for one of the best shows I've seen in a while, I really needed this
 
Sep 19, 2014 11:05 PM

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Wow, nine surrenders, twelve and lisa goes on a date and five suicide >.<
This was such an action packed episode, plus a cliff hanger too! Thats gg
 
Sep 19, 2014 11:58 PM

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Hmm Five, that was an unsatisfying conclusion to her character.
Will the atomic bomb go off?
 
Sep 20, 2014 12:20 AM

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Five yandere confirmed xD
The episode was a bit frustrating for me, considering how intense episode 9 was. I didn't like Five's conclusion, we didn't get much explanation about her actions.
"He's already special. Because he was... born into this world."


 
Sep 20, 2014 1:02 AM

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I will miss you Five.
[center]
 
Sep 20, 2014 2:17 AM

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So five was just some crazy psycho loser. welp lame
 
Sep 20, 2014 2:25 AM

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this episode was nice until the 2nd part, fucking lame. WTF just happened?
Glorious Titties Nuff Said!

Make America Great Again!
 
Sep 20, 2014 4:30 AM
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Oh yeah, although Five looked really cool at her last moments, I still don't like her hair.
 
Sep 20, 2014 4:50 AM

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Five and Nine should've bang'd each other first before Five killed herself.
"I have been wielding a blade since before your were swimming around your father's scrotum." - Kurou
 
Sep 20, 2014 4:52 AM

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Five just wanted the D..
Stay in yesterday 時を止めて
 
Sep 20, 2014 5:56 AM
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its not like the show is overly complicated and it seems like people still dont get the motives behind the characters @_@

depending on how this ends this might turn out really good after declining in quality around the middle
 
Sep 20, 2014 6:33 AM

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I am glad that Five is dead, but I am not happy with how it killed itself.


What's with all the debris behind Lisa? The rest of the buildings in the background look fine except the first one/s they targetted. Will something like in Mousou Dairinin happen (wtf am I saying that was too abstract) but in this case, an atomic bomb? And I just noticed the 3 green puzzle pieces on their top clothing/

shaiza

Fucking pumps me up. You see, this is what's terrible about waiting every week. Shit. And it's not even BD quality as well.

What kind of hole did I fall into

But it really is a different feel following and keeping up with an anime where you have an amazing combination of Maruyama Masao, Watanabe Shinichirou, and Kanno Youko.
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Modified by Suzune-chan, Sep 20, 2014 3:21 PM
 
Sep 20, 2014 6:45 AM

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Too bad Five died, I really wanted to eat her hair.
Best anime kiss of the year.
Twelve left sprawled on the road, wtf happened to him after that?

celeminus said:
its not like the show is overly complicated and it seems like people still dont get the motives behind the characters @_@

depending on how this ends this might turn out really good after declining in quality around the middle

You're an idiot if you think there is a clear or even hinted motive behind the characters. The creators obviously went for a fill in the blank approach, viewers are supposed to make up their own interpretation. And that's lazy fucking writing
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Sep 20, 2014 6:51 AM

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So, the whole show will end with a bang? Hmm
"Everyone wears their own panties inside their heart" - Kousaku Hata

 
Sep 20, 2014 7:32 AM
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I think this review provides a good take on Five's character.
http://moesucks.com/2014/09/18/terror-in-resonance-ep-10-nuclear-option/
 
Sep 20, 2014 8:29 AM

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dokidokidoing said:
I think this review provides a good take on Five's character.
http://moesucks.com/2014/09/18/terror-in-resonance-ep-10-nuclear-option/


Dude this review provides a good take on the entire series. Thank You for sharing.
 
Sep 20, 2014 8:39 AM

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My ship went down Five x Nine
What Five said to Nine was what a confession I mean she lived to see Nine again and her time was fading. The goodbye kiss was nice .
Seeing tweleve and Lisa on a date to the amusement park was awesome ,but they looked so depressed.
The my my this show was not predictable.
I didn't expect Five to suicide and in front of Nine again torture him again will you
But how this will end ,idk
But now worried
 
Sep 20, 2014 8:40 AM

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AsianKungFu said:
Five and Nine should've bang'd each other first before Five killed herself.

True they should have
 
Sep 20, 2014 9:15 AM
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BRK25 said:
skudoops said:


This is me right now. Nothing makes any sense in this.. I don't even know how 12 found 9 and 5 nor do I understand any of 5 motives.. wtf?


It wouldn't be hard to find local police cars driving by and attempting to rack their location. Especially radio frequency. However, I digress, you have a point but still, this is me right now.



I don't know what to say. The first half was fine and Twelve was trying to forget about Nine. He still came to the rescue. Now, what happens next?

People are going to bitch about the Engrish but I do hope we get another info dump on why Five acted the way she did. I mean, she liked Nine but I wanted more rather than a superficial feeling.

Also, doesn't anyone think that she got shot in the head and died and the last scene was more symbolic or metaphorical?

Nonetheless, it looked beautiful. The last scene made me drop my jaw cause of the way it was orchestrated.


skudoops said:
BRK25 said:

People are going to bitch about the Engrish but I do hope we get another info dump on why Five acted the way she did. I mean, she liked Nine but I wanted more rather than a superficial feeling.

Also, doesn't anyone think that she got shot in the head and died and the last scene was more symbolic or metaphorical?

Nonetheless, it looked beautiful. The last scene made me drop my jaw cause of the way it was orchestrated.


I think at this point I have just accepted the engrish. I will continue to say that they should have hired english speakers that knew japanese to do the lines. The Americans speaking wapanese would have been much more understandable (and realistic) than the Americans speaking engrish but perfect japanese. 5 could have stayed with the engrish because she's japanese.

Anyway the scene with her killing herself was weird for me, because there's this strange cut when the explosion happens that removes her completely from the scene. I don't think too many people noticed it but it's something that sorta bugged me and took away from it. I really liked the scenes with the fire before that though.


skudoops said:
BRK25 said:

Exactly, I understand that point. It looks VERY weird when the windshield gets shot and she was able to walk away from the car looking unharmed. The part where she shot the car, I seriously believed she was already dead under the light and the gun shot only meant the flames were about to begin. Maybe Nine couldn't handle such trauma.


I thought she was dead as well but I just looked back and I think the glass was bullet proof. There's a grey sort of splatter when nine hits it and the glass doesn't shatter.


I think that this whole part being kind of a metaphor actually makes sense!

Look at it this way:

1. After Nine shot the car Five was Driving (and the car stopped),you could have seen a Puddle of blood on the ground, while after Five went out of the Vehicle she was perfectly fine!

2. that cut was really weird

3. we don't really get to see that on this episode.. but Five was actually REALLY close to Nine (*hint-hint*). So maybe, but just Maybe, Nine died from the explosion? maybe this whole part was made so Nine's death will make sense some how?

Anyways, i like this show no matters what. Hopefully the next episode wont be rushed.
I also really interested in Five motives, by far she was a stereotypical villain.. i wonder if we may get to see a flash-back explaining why she really did that.

Nine's and Twelve's Motives are kinda clear now, but i wonder if they'll give us a jaw dropping Twist there! :D

Hopefully Lisa will be of some use in the end, Cant wait for Shibazaki to meet Nine (will he?)

ANYWAY, NEXT EPISODE MUST BE FULL OF CHILLS AND CRYING *FEELS*, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M READY TO THAT.

I just cant wait for the next episode, its over so quickly.. I Love this show!
 
Sep 20, 2014 9:21 AM

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i actually liked 5, she made things interesting.
I really hope that's not an atomic bomb
And i want to know why 9 surrendered.
I hope 12, lisa and 9 get back together
 
Sep 20, 2014 10:06 AM
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Eh, this episode was a bit too convoluted for me. A let-down from the amazing ferris wheel scene of the last.

I guess it's cause I never liked Five much as a character in the first place. She was just so generic, the evil foreigner. Also, while we know everyone's back story pretty well at this point, we still don't have Nine or Twelve's motive for any of their actions.
Sure, we know that they want the world to understand what happened in Project Athena, but why the atomic bomb? Like what is going on?

Maybe I'm just stupid not to instinctively pick up on these things. But considering this is the penultimate episode, I'd like a little more clarity so I can really appreciate the climax.
 
Sep 20, 2014 10:31 AM

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I never thought that Five would die in this episode

But oh well let's move on
 
Sep 20, 2014 4:26 PM

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02:20 lolwut

05:52 dont wake up, u btch

06:28 your peach's obviously being saved

11:03 doushite yuuenchi?

16:10 dat valley

16:57 daitan da ne

20:32 lol

7/10 for this episode.
Isayama Hajime should be awarded The Manga with The Highest Inconsistencies of Characters' Appearances.
He keeps performing multiple plastic surgeries on those Shingeki No Kyojin characters in a SINGLE chapter.
Yes, I've read up to the latest chapter of Shingeki No Kyojin manga.
Forced myself to read through the kidsketching chapters after the anime's ended. At least from now on, I only have to go through the hell once a month.
Patiently awaiting SNK TV/movie/OVA anime-sequel.
The 2015 SNK live-action movie would probably suck.
 
Sep 20, 2014 7:18 PM

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Worst episode in the series. Tried so hard to be cool yet just comes off as utterly absurd. Five driving with one hand and shooting with the other inch-perfect using a handgun... HOLLYWOOD. And not in a good sense. It was comical when the American agent FINALLY realised following a Japanese girl-brat psychopath would be bad, only to get shot when aiming his gun at her. Five suddenly deciding to die / kiss / 'I liked you, really. LIVE FOR ME!' after trying to kill Nine out of chess addiction needs for most of the series was even more WTF.

WHY DID THE AMERICANS FOLLOW ORDERS OF JAPANESE PSYCHO GIRL TAKEN FROM HUMAN EXPERIMENTATION PROJECT THY THEMSELVES STOPPED!? WHHYYYYY!?

I take it all back: focus on Lisa being a damsel and Twelve being her white knight. Anything is better than what this episode offered. Hopefully Nine decides to kill everyone.
 
Sep 20, 2014 8:41 PM

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So Five's intentions were just as petty and silly as her attitude was obnoxious.

I feel like this series would work better as a movie. There's just not much material and meat to chew on for even a single cour series like this IMO. Well, I'm looking forward to the finale. I doubt it will make up for the poor character development and plot, though. I think I'm just enjoying this series for the good direction and music.
 
Sep 20, 2014 10:52 PM
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And no one realized Five just disappeared right when the explosion happened, the animators didn't even care about making her die, they just deleted her.
 
Sep 21, 2014 12:47 AM

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So, the main point of ZnT is that Watanabe was willing to say "Fuck You!" to Abe and every right-wing japanese person out there? It's nice and all but if it was done in a more interesting and mature way the series would have been among the greatest anime.

Anyway, I felt that episode was overlong and had not much characters development, Five revealed herself as absolutely pointless nutjob, Lisa is still here just for the sake of being here, Nine and Twelve are as blank as ever, those chase scenes done in horrendous "drunk Michael Bay" style and story just serves the purpose of expressing Watanabe's opinion on current japanese administration.




 
Sep 21, 2014 3:39 AM
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JRadagast said:
And no one realized Five just disappeared right when the explosion happened, the animators didn't even care about making her die, they just deleted her.
They pretended she never happened.
 
Sep 21, 2014 7:04 AM

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Five was like:''I'm gonna make your life difficult...Ok,I'm done *explodes* '' lol
 
Sep 21, 2014 9:06 AM
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MajorZero said:
So, the main point of ZnT is that Watanabe was willing to say "Fuck You!" to Abe and every right-wing japanese person out there? It's nice and all but if it was done in a more interesting and mature way the series would have been among the greatest anime.

Anyway, I felt that episode was overlong and had not much characters development, Five revealed herself as absolutely pointless nutjob, Lisa is still here just for the sake of being here, Nine and Twelve are as blank as ever, those chase scenes done in horrendous "drunk Michael Bay" style and story just serves the purpose of expressing Watanabe's opinion on current japanese administration.


There are a lot of things this show doesn't do enough of like informing the viewer and explaining the entire reason why they act like they do.

The viewer needs to peek in and observe every single faucet of energy and symbolism to digest it. And it sucks because not every viewer can achieve this.

http://moesucks.com/category/anime/series/terror-in-resonance/page/2/

This guy's good and brings lot of answers to questions the viewers might have. HOWEVER!
~
I mean, if I can't figure some things out and some guy can make a break down of how things happened in a dissertation manner, this show does have a theme and plots going on but it is so subtle that it is damn near nonexistent.

I just hope on several rewatches, that is, if the ending doesn't fucking blow this anime down to pure shit and make Watanabe a joke after this, there might be things that click into place and able to make comprehension.

An example on Cowboy Bebop where one episode showed Ed catching a fish and suddenly was gone, drifting back in the sea. Which would go hand in hand in the next episode where Jet meets his Ex wife and noticing how things have changed.

But on a first watch basis, it isn't doing a great job cause lots of shit happens so fast that you will lose plenty of information or specific information.
 
Sep 21, 2014 9:41 AM
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Oh my jesus f*cking christ..
Are they all gonna die?
Can't wait for next ep XD
 
Sep 21, 2014 10:20 AM

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BRK25 said:
There are a lot of things this show doesn't do enough of like informing the viewer and explaining the entire reason why they act like they do.

The viewer needs to peek in and observe every single faucet of energy and symbolism to digest it. And it sucks because not every viewer can achieve this.

http://moesucks.com/category/anime/series/terror-in-resonance/page/2/

This guy's good and brings lot of answers to questions the viewers might have. HOWEVER!
~
I mean, if I can't figure some things out and some guy can make a break down of how things happened in a dissertation manner, this show does have a theme and plots going on but it is so subtle that it is damn near nonexistent.

Well, I don't think ZnT is all that complex or even subtle, guy seems to overanalyze it a bit too much (plus, dat A.V. Club vibe from his review...yeah). For me it seems to be pretty straightforward series with very big problems in writing department (mainly composition, overall pacing and world building) which eventually lead it into oblivion. I understand why it's popular though (besides the obvious involvement of cult director of course), people tired of certain type of animation, they want something more grounded in reality, something that willing to tell about social problems, politics and other difficult topics, something that ready to show interesting story outside of otaku realm, in a way, success was predetermined, especially here, in the west.

Now, ten years ago we had Monster and Paranoia Agent, those were a good times.




 
Sep 21, 2014 10:46 AM

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MajorZero said:

Well, I don't think ZnT is all that complex or even subtle, guy seems to overanalyze it a bit too much (plus, dat A.V. Club vibe from his review...yeah). For me it seems to be pretty straightforward series with very big problems in writing department (mainly composition, overall pacing and world building) which eventually lead it into oblivion. I understand why it's popular though (besides the obvious involvement of cult director of course), people tired of certain type of animation, they want something more grounded in reality, something that willing to tell about social problems, politics and other difficult topics, something that ready to show interesting story outside of otaku realm, in a way, success was predetermined, especially here, in the west.

Now, ten years ago we had Monster and Paranoia Agent, those were a good times.


People can over-analyze any show if they look deep enough. You could go into the inner workings of your typical moe school comedy and find some sort of meaning in it that you could call deep. Does that make them deep, symbolic or metaphorical shows? No, not at all, it's all about execution and presentation.

Zankyou no Terror purposely keeps things from the viewer to... well I guess it's to keep the viewers guessing but it's kind of hard to stay invested when you have no idea what you are supposed to be invested in. Does it have a presentation that screams "SYMBOLISM" and "METAPHORS"? I don't think so honestly... When you have something like FLCL which has such blatant metaphors that you can't not see it's symbolic and metaphorical... or even something more subtle like Cowboy Bebop for instance where the show deals with a specific theme in most of the episodes and it's obvious what the theme is but only if you truly pay attention, nothing in Zankyou no Terror does that. There is no theme per episode, it's just an average crime drama with OP intelligent protagonists trying to outsmart each other but you can't become invested because they don't flesh out the characters properly or give us their motivations until it's too late.

Truth be told and this is my honest opinion. I think it just chose the type of storytelling it has... to look artsy... and nothing else... and now that the answers are being revealed it's showing quite a lot that that is the case because the answers that were kept from us turn out to be nothing special, in fact, down right anti-climactic and nonsensical. There was no real purpose to keeping them a secret because the big reveal of the answers are well... boring. "What was Five's motivation for doing all of this?" Oh she just wanted to beat Nine once because she likes him or something. "What was the deal with the kids in the institution?" Oh they were just experimented on to become super intelligent... Nothing really new or extraordinary or even shocking at all... Maybe the motivations of Nine and Twelve might be but... they are the MC's and the main focus of the story.. keeping their motivations from us doesn't exactly make us care and if it's not revealed until the end, that basically means this was all just a boring and pointless build up just to have a shocking conclusion. It doesn't even seem like they put a lot of effort into writing it because it uses a lot of cliches, plot convenience and flat characters... Not to mention that stupid airport chess game...
 
Sep 21, 2014 11:42 AM

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Keten said:
People can over-analyze any show if they look deep enough. You could go into the inner workings of your typical moe school comedy and find some sort of meaning in it that you could call deep. Does that make them deep, symbolic or metaphorical shows? No, not at all, it's all about execution and presentation.

Zankyou no Terror purposely keeps things from the viewer to... well I guess it's to keep the viewers guessing but it's kind of hard to stay invested when you have no idea what you are supposed to be invested in. Does it have a presentation that screams "SYMBOLISM" and "METAPHORS"? I don't think so honestly... When you have something like FLCL which has such blatant metaphors that you can't not see it's symbolic and metaphorical... or even something more subtle like Cowboy Bebop for instance where the show deals with a specific theme in most of the episodes and it's obvious what the theme is but only if you truly pay attention, nothing in Zankyou no Terror does that. There is no theme per episode, it's just an average crime drama with OP intelligent protagonists trying to outsmart each other but you can't become invested because they don't flesh out the characters properly or give us their motivations until it's too late.

Truth be told and this is my honest opinion. I think it just chose the type of storytelling it has... to look artsy... and nothing else... and now that the answers are being revealed it's showing quite a lot that that is the case because the answers that were kept from us turn out to be nothing special, in fact, down right anti-climactic and nonsensical. There was no real purpose to keeping them a secret because the big reveal of the answers are well... boring. "What was Five's motivation for doing all of this?" Oh she just wanted to beat Nine once because she likes him or something. "What was the deal with the kids in the institution?" Oh they were just experimented on to become super intelligent... Nothing really new or extraordinary or even shocking at all... Maybe the motivations of Nine and Twelve might be but... they are the MC's and the main focus of the story.. keeping their motivations from us doesn't exactly make us care and if it's not revealed until the end, that basically means this was all just a boring and pointless build up just to have a shocking conclusion. It doesn't even seem like they put a lot of effort into writing it because it uses a lot of cliches, plot convenience and flat characters... Not to mention that stupid airport chess game...

Thank you kind sir. You just addressed a lot of my concerns about ZnT in one post and I could never formulate it better.

To be honest, I wouldn't call storytelling artsy because for me artsy means something like Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind or Holy Motors. ZnT tried to play on a few turfs, you can see influence from everywhere (curent anime trends, conspiracy thrillers, cop shows) but it never became a thing on it's own.




 
Sep 21, 2014 12:06 PM

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MajorZero said:

Thank you kind sir. You just addressed a lot of my concerns about ZnT in one post and I could never formulate it better.

To be honest, I wouldn't call storytelling artsy because for me artsy means something like Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind or Holy Motors. ZnT tried to play on a few turfs, you can see influence from everywhere (curent anime trends, conspiracy thrillers, cop shows) but it never became a thing on it's own.


I suppose "artsy" wasn't the best word for me to use. What I meant was it did it to look different. I agree with you that it isn't exactly "artsy" I just think it used this form of storytelling to hide the fact that it was just a cliche average crime drama and in doing so just made itself worse.

Instead of being something different it tried to tell something average in a new way. It can work sometimes if done right but in this case they did everything wrong...

It ends up only damaging the show because due to the lack of fleshing out, it's hard to care about Nine, Twelve or Five. Since Lisa's purpose is to add humanity to Twelve that makes her entire character poor written as well, if we don't care about Twelve, why care about the one that cares about him if that is her entire character besides damsel in distress? Then there is Shibazaki, he could have been cool but most of his scenes are just him walking around talking to people about things that are just not interesting at all. Ya he gets close to the truth with each scene but... we practically already know the answer because it's so blatantly obvious that they went with the "institution turning kids into super intelligent people" route ever since they gave the flashback in episode 2 of Nine remembering it...

The storytelling has little to do with the quality of the writing overall... but that's just it... It's such a boring story with cliches and no real twists to any of them... Even the execution seems off... They present it at first like it's this super serious and realistic crime drama but then they have a building blow up, even showing civilians get caught up in the debris... and there's no casualties? No accidents? Then to top it off, they introduce Five, who has a ridiculous design and turns the show into basically just a "I am smarter than you" contest where Nine and Five show off just how overpowered they are in terms of intelligence.. which would be okay... If we knew enough about them to care... Finally the answers are revealed and it's all just cliche plot points that have been done time and time again with flat characters who really have nothing to them after all. Nine and Twelve MIGHT have something to them with the last episode... but it feels pointless if that is the only episode where we care about them at all because it will have ended immediately after.

Of course, maybe knowing their motivations and going back to rewatch it could possibly make it a bit better... but that would mean this anime REQUIRES you to watch it a 2nd time just to enjoy it... If a show is going to do that, they have to have at least something else to it to make sure the first viewing experience is enjoyable as well. Considering the ridiculous plot points, cliches and boring scenes though... even a 2nd viewing I feel like would be a tad boring to sit through...
 
Sep 21, 2014 12:25 PM

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Keten said:
[Instead of being something different it tried to tell something average in a new way. It can work sometimes if done right but in this case they did everything wrong...

Ironically, a lot of american broadcast tv series do the same things far better than ZnT and most ZnT fans probably hate those shows with passion.

As for originality, I personally can live without it (not to mention that original doesn't mean good), if execution is good. I believe there's no point to discuss ZnT's execution since this is basically what you wrote in your last post.




 
Sep 21, 2014 12:44 PM
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Keten said:
MajorZero said:

Thank you kind sir. You just addressed a lot of my concerns about ZnT in one post and I could never formulate it better.

To be honest, I wouldn't call storytelling artsy because for me artsy means something like Eternal Sunshine of Spotless Mind or Holy Motors. ZnT tried to play on a few turfs, you can see influence from everywhere (curent anime trends, conspiracy thrillers, cop shows) but it never became a thing on it's own.


I suppose "artsy" wasn't the best word for me to use. What I meant was it did it to look different. I agree with you that it isn't exactly "artsy" I just think it used this form of storytelling to hide the fact that it was just a cliche average crime drama and in doing so just made itself worse.

Instead of being something different it tried to tell something average in a new way. It can work sometimes if done right but in this case they did everything wrong...

It ends up only damaging the show because due to the lack of fleshing out, it's hard to care about Nine, Twelve or Five. Since Lisa's purpose is to add humanity to Twelve that makes her entire character poor written as well, if we don't care about Twelve, why care about the one that cares about him if that is her entire character besides damsel in distress? Then there is Shibazaki, he could have been cool but most of his scenes are just him walking around talking to people about things that are just not interesting at all. Ya he gets close to the truth with each scene but... we practically already know the answer because it's so blatantly obvious that they went with the "institution turning kids into super intelligent people" route ever since they gave the flashback in episode 2 of Nine remembering it...

The storytelling has little to do with the quality of the writing overall... but that's just it... It's such a boring story with cliches and no real twists to any of them... Even the execution seems off... They present it at first like it's this super serious and realistic crime drama but then they have a building blow up, even showing civilians get caught up in the debris... and there's no casualties? No accidents? Then to top it off, they introduce Five, who has a ridiculous design and turns the show into basically just a "I am smarter than you" contest where Nine and Five show off just how overpowered they are in terms of intelligence.. which would be okay... If we knew enough about them to care... Finally the answers are revealed and it's all just cliche plot points that have been done time and time again with flat characters who really have nothing to them after all. Nine and Twelve MIGHT have something to them with the last episode... but it feels pointless if that is the only episode where we care about them at all because it will have ended immediately after.

Of course, maybe knowing their motivations and going back to rewatch it could possibly make it a bit better... but that would mean this anime REQUIRES you to watch it a 2nd time just to enjoy it... If a show is going to do that, they have to have at least something else to it to make sure the first viewing experience is enjoyable as well. Considering the ridiculous plot points, cliches and boring scenes though... even a 2nd viewing I feel like would be a tad boring to sit through...
MajorZero said:
Keten said:
[Instead of being something different it tried to tell something average in a new way. It can work sometimes if done right but in this case they did everything wrong...

Ironically, a lot of american broadcast tv series do the same things far better than ZnT and most ZnT fans probably hate those shows with passion.

As for originality, I personally can live without it (not to mention that original doesn't mean good), if execution is good. I believe there's no point to discuss ZnT's execution since this is basically what you wrote in your last post.




Good stuff. Very good stuff. You two poking holes and I don't mind htat.

I love the show cause I needed something fresh, something clean and against the boring trope of slice of life shows. I've got it and while the execution is off, and things look bleak, the least I can do is enjoy the small directive scenes added by music and the visuals if they keep it up. I do hope this last episode does something and not stay sup bar like it has.

The Fooly Cooly part I'll have to digress because I talked to someone who watches FLCL lots of times and doesn't see the metaphors, sometimes it isn't blatant enough.
 
Sep 21, 2014 1:09 PM

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BRK25 said:


Good stuff. Very good stuff. You two poking holes and I don't mind htat.

I love the show cause I needed something fresh, something clean and against the boring trope of slice of life shows. I've got it and while the execution is off, and things look bleak, the least I can do is enjoy the small directive scenes added by music and the visuals if they keep it up. I do hope this last episode does something and not stay sup bar like it has.

The Fooly Cooly part I'll have to digress because I talked to someone who watches FLCL lots of times and doesn't see the metaphors, sometimes it isn't blatant enough.


Fair enough about the FLCL thing. I guess that's a double edged sword when making your story told entirely through metaphors... Especially ones that are not spelled out for you. Hit or miss for people. lol

I will definitely say ZnT has impressive visuals and an absolutely phenomenal soundtrack(Some of Yoko Kanno's best work in my opinion). Even if the story and character department were done rather amateurish, you can tell that the people behind the art/animation and background music gave their all for this show and made it very easy to watch. Unfortunately... I personally need more than that though before I call a show legitimately 'good'... I give my props to the animation department and Yoko Kanno though. Who knows, maybe the last episode will surprise me, I won't hype myself up for it though, I'll just wait and see.
 
Sep 21, 2014 1:18 PM

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Ha, since I'm one of the few who actually didn't liked ost at all (nothing against Yoko Kanno, I like her jazz heavy osts), I guess Hater Award goes to me. No, honestly, every time I hear ZnT ost for some reason Under the Skin soundtrack pops up in my mind and you don't want to hear this one.




 
Sep 21, 2014 1:54 PM

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MajorZero said:
Ha, since I'm one of the few who actually didn't liked ost at all (nothing against Yoko Kanno, I like her jazz heavy osts), I guess Hater Award goes to me. No, honestly, every time I hear ZnT ost for some reason Under the Skin soundtrack pops up in my mind and you don't want to hear this one.


Well... I mean... I guess music to a degree depends on taste(Which is why the sound section is only worth 10% of my score). However, if you were to put jazz in this anime it wouldn't exactly fit the tone. I won't deny that the bebop soundtrack is probably higher than ZnT's for me but in terms of how well it's integrated and how well it fits the show, I think it does it's job very well. Very atmospheric and creepy in a rather beautiful/soothing way. It compliments the animation well.
 
Sep 21, 2014 3:36 PM
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http://www.funimation.com/blog/2014/07/31/terror-in-resonance-official-interview/

Managed to find a interview with Watanabe and found some intriguing parts on why he decided to make this show. He chose a TV show but contemplated a movie. Huh, wondered what a movie would come out as if he had used it?

Also, one thing I enjoy about what he said had been the will to not only change what is shown in Anime in general but also in television itself. I rather watch a sketchy show with some very well done animation and cinematography than a bland, uninspiring slice of life show. I've said it already but it must be reinstated.

He also goes on to say he had other ideas since 2007 so maybe we might find another work from him if it gets picked up.

Keten said:


Fair enough about the FLCL thing. I guess that's a double edged sword when making your story told entirely through metaphors... Especially ones that are not spelled out for you. Hit or miss for people. lol

I will definitely say ZnT has impressive visuals and an absolutely phenomenal soundtrack(Some of Yoko Kanno's best work in my opinion). Even if the story and character department were done rather amateurish, you can tell that the people behind the art/animation and background music gave their all for this show and made it very easy to watch. Unfortunately... I personally need more than that though before I call a show legitimately 'good'... I give my props to the animation department and Yoko Kanno though. Who knows, maybe the last episode will surprise me, I won't hype myself up for it though, I'll just wait and see.


You nailed it. I love the animation and soundtrack that meshes so well in this show. The synchronized choice of music for his ideas is too perfect. A great duo.

If they had the ability to spend two more episodes explaining what is going on or be more forward on what they wish to portray to the audience rather than be tight lipped like it is the x-files, we'd have a great show. But the time restraints and the margin for error and discussion is clear.
 
Sep 21, 2014 4:32 PM

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This anime started out so well, but now I am not so sure. First Lisa just started ruining it and getting in the way and now things are getting a bit weird.

I really thought they had some interesting motive, but it is looking more like they really are going for the, 'life fucked us, so we will fuck japan, because the world sucks'. I suppose the early Death Note feels got me thinking this anime would be more than it is. Or to say something different, I was expecting more of a thriller, and it seems to at least be trying to be symbolic and psychological, which is fine if you like that, but I am personally a bit disappointed.

Oh and RIP 5's Engrish.
Modified by TehWhiteTiger, Sep 21, 2014 4:37 PM
"When everyone else is about to give up, the fighter who becomes the role model, is the true Leader."

 
Sep 21, 2014 4:33 PM
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MajorZero said:
BRK25 said:
There are a lot of things this show doesn't do enough of like informing the viewer and explaining the entire reason why they act like they do.

The viewer needs to peek in and observe every single faucet of energy and symbolism to digest it. And it sucks because not every viewer can achieve this.

http://moesucks.com/category/anime/series/terror-in-resonance/page/2/

This guy's good and brings lot of answers to questions the viewers might have. HOWEVER!
~
I mean, if I can't figure some things out and some guy can make a break down of how things happened in a dissertation manner, this show does have a theme and plots going on but it is so subtle that it is damn near nonexistent.

Well, I don't think ZnT is all that complex or even subtle, guy seems to overanalyze it a bit too much (plus, dat A.V. Club vibe from his review...yeah). For me it seems to be pretty straightforward series with very big problems in writing department (mainly composition, overall pacing and world building) which eventually lead it into oblivion. I understand why it's popular though (besides the obvious involvement of cult director of course), people tired of certain type of animation, they want something more grounded in reality, something that willing to tell about social problems, politics and other difficult topics, something that ready to show interesting story outside of otaku realm, in a way, success was predetermined, especially here, in the west.

Now, ten years ago we had Monster and Paranoia Agent, those were a good times.


While I wouldn't say that ZnT is anywhere near FLCL levels of symbolism reliance, I think that it, as a show, does require a bit of analysis. The way I see it, the is a show about five outcasts trying to connect with each other. Figuring out Five's part of the show, for example, does require some analysis, especially since a lot of people seem to think that she was there just to elevate this show to a Hollywood thriller (she did do that, but wait). My simple take on her character (after looking at the information we've been given about her) is that she's hollow as an individual-essentially a child that never grew up (hence the point of the games- i.e.; airport chess). She only has whatever connection she has to Nine to cling on to, and she's gone mad because of that. So, when people accuse her on being one-dimensional and crazy, I can't help but think-forgive me- that that was kind of the point.

But I digress. I do think the writing is one of the weakest parts of the show. It's not bad, objectively speaking- but everything else is so brilliant that the difference in quality is jarring. I think the problem stems from the fact that Watanabe wanted to tell an expansive, really moving story about five outcasts which had a number of action thriller elements here and there, but he was ultimately hamstrung by the length of the show. As a result, we get a not-completely distilled version of what could have been. After seeing this and Kids on the Slope, I'm starting to think that he doesn't do well with brevity- the last third (it was 12 episodes in total) of that show suffered due to pacing problems.

From that interview link posted, it sounds like he and the staff put a lot of work into the show, and he seems to be quite proud of it. It's a sad day when we see an an ambitious show with all the right ingredients- passion, talent, hard work- that still gets bogged down by one very persistent problem.
Modified by dokidokidoing, Sep 21, 2014 5:36 PM
 
Sep 21, 2014 6:49 PM

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TehWhiteTiger said:
This anime started out so well, but now I am not so sure. First Lisa just started ruining it and getting in the way and now things are getting a bit weird.

I really thought they had some interesting motive, but it is looking more like they really are going for the, 'life fucked us, so we will fuck japan, because the world sucks'. I suppose the early Death Note feels got me thinking this anime would be more than it is. Or to say something different, I was expecting more of a thriller, and it seems to at least be trying to be symbolic and psychological, which is fine if you like that, but I am personally a bit disappointed.

Oh and RIP 5's Engrish.

if this is the case then this anime failed it self
however i still hope that the key to this messed up plot lies in the ending that will tie everything up
we still have no idea why they did all that they dont have much time to live and that project prob wont repeat it self due to its failure so why
 
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