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Poll: Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 18 Discussion


#1
Oct 28, 2009 10:10 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Needless to say, spoilers in this thread for those that haven't watched it or read it's equivalent.

Wonder what reactions it will generate in the anime-only fandom.

Modified by OmegaDenmad, Oct 28, 2009 10:45 AM
 
#2
Oct 28, 2009 10:38 AM

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I can't wait to see the anime-only watchers response to this episode. Whether their response is positive or negative, I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh.

Modified by hirahira, Oct 28, 2009 10:54 AM
 
#3
Oct 28, 2009 10:40 AM

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I assume most people have already done what I warned about before entering a thread about an episode in this site. Unless they are looking to be spoiled XD. And then, it's lacking context.

Seems DEEN will play up the
 
#4
Oct 28, 2009 10:42 AM

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Looking at the 2chan screens, red web looks very disappointing. Very short (seems to be about a minute long) and there's no web.
 
#5
Oct 28, 2009 10:45 AM

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Really hope VN readers and RAW watchers can restrain themselves from posting anything spoilerish about this episode until subs are out. Just a suggestion to any anime-only people who normally watch Umineko RAW before subs are out, if you want to REALLY enjoy this episode you should wait until subs are out.

I also agree to change the 1st picture considering how many people who haven't watched it yet still enter this thread to see how good it was.

Edit: Nvm you changed it :)
 
#6
Oct 28, 2009 11:34 AM
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Felt a little rushed, but the episode looked great. I guess I'll wait til subs are released to give my final thoughts.
 
#7
Oct 28, 2009 11:51 AM

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Watched the raw.

Roll coaster is what comes to mind. This episode was rushed but every second of it was great. So much emotion and although tracks were omitted, the music was good. We finally get happiness of marionette. By how quickly everything goes by, I expect some anime viewers to be like "What just happened?" It'd be a good idea to watch it more than once to let everything soak in.

Most entertaining episode yet.
 
#8
Oct 28, 2009 11:52 AM

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Where do you guys watch this episode? ._. I can't even find the RAW version.
 
#9
Oct 28, 2009 11:57 AM

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That was rather disappointing. Especially Battler vs. Eva-Beatrice. It didn't seem like much was said in red at all. Battler breaking down like that didn't make any sense. And so many other parts were too rushed. Endless Nine part was totally awesome though and so was Ange's arrival. Ange's voice is perfect. I'll have to watch it with subs so I know exactly what they left out.
 
Oct 28, 2009 12:02 PM

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Sasu-neko said:
Where do you guys watch this episode? ._. I can't even find the RAW version.


Raw is here : http://himado.in/7325
 
Oct 28, 2009 12:28 PM

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Modified by LunarEmerald, Oct 28, 2009 1:16 PM
 
Oct 28, 2009 12:30 PM
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OmegaDenmad said:
Sasu-neko said:
Where do you guys watch this episode? ._. I can't even find the RAW version.


Raw is here : http://himado.in/7325

I watched it here: http://say-move.org/comeplay.php?comeid=32836
 
Oct 28, 2009 12:51 PM
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Even with the Web of Red being cut down to almost nothing and a disappointing lack of miragecoordinator, the episode was pretty well done, if just rather jam packed. For me, the EP3 Tea Party is the height of the series so far.

Also, my rage over
is coming on again.
 
Oct 28, 2009 1:23 PM

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Overall I was happy of how well this adapted the novel moments so far.

 
Oct 28, 2009 1:29 PM

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MarthX said:




Is it me or the ceremony looked like a wedding... oh well, without love it cannot be seen.
 
Oct 28, 2009 1:35 PM

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OmegaDenmad said:


Is it me or the ceremony looked like a wedding... oh well, without love it cannot be seen.

That's exactly what I thought.

I forgot to mention that Virgilia getting knocked down and her hat falling off was hilarious.
 
Oct 28, 2009 1:44 PM

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I need subs too bad~ Dx
 
Oct 28, 2009 1:49 PM

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A little too fast paced. Cut out a TON of dialog from the novel. >_>

Still a good episode. I just think it would have been better if they had made this entire part 2 episodes long at least
 
Oct 28, 2009 3:04 PM

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No miragecoordinator... go to hell, this shit isn't worth my time anymore.
 
Oct 28, 2009 3:09 PM
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I fell for it twice.
And fuck yeah at endless nine.


Episode 5 spoilers:
Modified by Denwa, Oct 28, 2009 3:28 PM
 
Oct 28, 2009 3:37 PM

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SEE YOU AGAIN.



edit: Also, BernxLambda!

I wonder what the new portrait will be.

Modified by Gar_Logan, Oct 28, 2009 3:44 PM
 
Oct 28, 2009 3:41 PM

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GarLogan78 said:
SEE YOU AGAIN.

Great episode.


Also, BernxLambda!


Put that one part in spoilers please. At least until subs are out.

Edit: Thanks
Modified by Golden_Truth, Oct 28, 2009 3:46 PM
 
Oct 28, 2009 4:43 PM

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*took a quick scan through of the episode*

No Thanks for Being Born?

;__________________________________;
 
Oct 28, 2009 5:35 PM

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Confusing episode. At first I was very much happy for Jessica and Kanon to be together even if Kanon was a ghost. Then I was sad and shocked about Beatrice's death being really badly injured by the Siestas sisters with so much blood. Then all this red text abuse by Eva-Beatrice added insult to injury for Battler even if at one point he proved that scene with the cigarettes. What was this scene? What in the world did Beatrice do?
What was that signing ceremony and suddenly all are going insane? The happiest was when Ange appeared! I was very happy and waited for this so then Lambdadelta appeared and that was good too because I did not see her in sometime. What was that fastforward 12 years in the future and Eva-Beatrice on the bed thing? Bernkastel being back was great too and I hope all will be resolved with her help.
Welcome Ange and I am happy you finally came into this series with a kick! :D

OmegaDenmad said:
I assume most people have already done what I warned about before entering a thread about an episode in this site. Unless they are looking to be spoiled XD. And then, it's lacking context.

Seems DEEN will play up the

Oh no please no wincest it is not needed.
OmegaDenmad said:
Needless to say, spoilers in this thread for those that haven't watched it or read it's equivalent.

Wonder what reactions it will generate in the anime-only fandom.


My reaction to this is that it looks nice but deceiving.
MarthX said:

What is that signing ceremony?
Modified by francismeunier, Oct 28, 2009 5:40 PM

In spoiler my anime list for now.
 
Oct 28, 2009 6:17 PM

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Oct 28, 2009 6:21 PM

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I'm just curious, are you watching the raws and aren't fluent in Japanese or something? Or is it really that hard to tell what's going on in this episode (I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know if the dialogue).
 
Oct 28, 2009 6:53 PM

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A lot of red truth was omitted in this episode.

I'll post it and the character TIPS later when the subs are released.
 
Oct 28, 2009 7:08 PM

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MarthX said:

Oh really, well that proves to never trust a witch. This will crush some fans of Battler x Beatrice. BTW: I love a lot as a fan of this series Ange and if you could PM more information about her it would be nice.
June_1983 said:
I'm just curious, are you watching the raws and aren't fluent in Japanese or something? Or is it really that hard to tell what's going on in this episode (I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know if the dialogue).

I learned some Japanese with a book for beginners of French/Japanese but it is hard to use it with the whole english subs stuff. I tend to understand more when I translate. Good thing a improved on that but I just hate waiting for subs. I prefer to see what happens next as soon as it is possible.
vinesage said:
wow, Just when I thought I already pretty much figured out everything, I got totally mindfucked again

You are not the only one vinesage, I found it confusing also. BTW: can you tell me what Bernkastel said to Ange and the person dying on the bed?
Modified by francismeunier, Oct 28, 2009 7:12 PM

In spoiler my anime list for now.
 
Oct 28, 2009 7:08 PM

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wow, Just when I thought I already pretty much figured out everything, I got totally mindfucked again, lol... that was really funny~ and indeed a lot of lulz in this ep

anyway, great episode needless to say, and i hardly have any idea how it will continue from this point on, even eva herself confessed to the crime, which is only expected.
yeah, maybe the thing about nanjo is a bit weird, no suicide no trap, no 19th person, not jessica, and eva was with battler the whole time, so it must be some trick eva used, but i guess we cant tell anything before we get to see the body~

cant wait for next!

OmegaDenmad said:
Is it me or the ceremony looked like a wedding... oh well, without love it cannot be seen.
exactly my thought too~ I was like, hmm, they are going to get married already?? lol?
Modified by vinesage, Oct 28, 2009 7:51 PM
 
Oct 28, 2009 7:25 PM

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francismeunier said:
You are not the only one vinesage, I found it confusing also. BTW: can you tell me what Bernkastel said to Ange and the person dying on the bed?
I think bern said something like Ange's relatives are trapped in a space of 12 years ago, and she as the very last beatrice is the only one who can save them. and i think she does have the ring in that scene.

the dying person is eva, gray haired. well, I guess those murders are just much too for her, if shes thinking about killing her own relatives one after the other for 12 years long, no wonder she would be something like that...

Edit: just rewatched that scene again, Bern also said even if Ange should be able to beat Beatrice, it is not promised her family can return. (I think this might indicate that maybe, big maybe, even the author isnt really sure himself how to end this mess lol. *my very personal speculation, dont take it seriously ;-)*)
Modified by vinesage, Oct 28, 2009 7:40 PM
 
Oct 28, 2009 7:32 PM

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I hope you like Ange because the next arc is all about her.
 
Oct 28, 2009 7:45 PM

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MarthX said:
I hope you like Ange because the next arc is all about her.
totally, she seems fun. :D
I guess no battler vs witch next arc? but see how ange's character is, I think she actually has much greater chance than battler. the very first mistake battler make is to believe his own family way too much
 
Oct 28, 2009 7:53 PM

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MarthX said:
I hope you like Ange because the next arc is all about her.

Ah yes! Love her character a lot.
vinesage said:
francismeunier said:
You are not the only one vinesage, I found it confusing also. BTW: can you tell me what Bernkastel said to Ange and the person dying on the bed?

I think bern said something like Ange's relatives are trapped in a space of 12 years ago, and she as the very last beatrice is the only one who can save them. and i think she does have the ring in that scene.

Very last beatrice? It means she is the only one left with the families' blood? That is bad. Knowing Bernkastel she would say that exactly (thanks again) because Time/Space/Worlds is her specialty from Higurashi since I am watching it now.
vinesage said:
the dying person is eva, gray haired. well, I guess those murders are just much too for her, if shes thinking about killing her own relatives one after the other for 12 years long, no wonder she would be something like that...

So it is her. A fitting end should I add then.
vinesage said:
Edit: just rewatched that scene again, Bern also said even if Ange should be able to beat Beatrice, it is not promised her family can return. (I think this might indicate that maybe, big maybe, even the author isnt really sure himself how to end this mess lol. *my very personal speculation, dont take it seriously ;-)*)

No! I want a happy end with Ange being the hero. Yes, that would be so nice since I waited for her character to appear so much.
Modified by francismeunier, Oct 28, 2009 7:57 PM

In spoiler my anime list for now.
 
Oct 28, 2009 8:37 PM

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francismeunier said:
Very last beatrice? It means she is the only one left with the families' blood? That is bad.
I think why she is jumping off the building is because she is the only left, maybe even eva died there... and bern said too that its because beatrice she is so alone.
"Knowing Bernkastel she would say that exactly (thanks again) because Time/Space/Worlds is her specialty from Higurashi since I am watching it now. "
havent watched higurashi, so dont know that :-)

"So it is her. A fitting end should I add then. "
This is actually exactly what I have been thinking for a few minutes now. This arc is a very weird one from beginning to the end. and fact that they even showed us eva pointing gun at battler is too predictable somehow. plus, now taht i think about it again, the way eva ended seems pretty odd as well...

this is just my thought..(speculation time again :-) )
the murders this arc were done way too poorly, the indication is too obvious and one-sided, instead of totally confusing like before. all hints pointing to eva no matter how people look at it.
its not that I am having this thought because I think it was too easy to solve for the audience(not only anyway), but rather: this doesnt really fit with eva either.
I always had the very strong impression eva was a cunning woman in the 1st arc, she pointed things fast and directly (maybe even coldblood). hmm...well ,guess i cant explain it myself so well either. Anyway, i have the very strong feeling it might have been a trap for eva from the very beginning.
 
Oct 28, 2009 8:44 PM

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Eva being the culprit for EP3 feels a gigantic red herring to me. They make it too obvious. Trying to prove that she wasn't would be far more difficult.
 
Oct 28, 2009 8:46 PM

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Well I don't know if any red text has confirmed it, but going by the old theory (and not disproven as far as I know as long as the player is MetaBattler) that anything Piece Battler witnesses is true...



Just wondering: I assume Witches Tanabata was released after EP4. When were the Valentine and White Day things released?
 
Oct 28, 2009 8:47 PM

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After EP4 too.
 
Oct 28, 2009 8:50 PM

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Hmmm... Hopefully DEEN will animate those as OVAs in between this season and next.

Oh, forgot about something else that's sort obvious but anyway: Eva wouldn't have motives for killing George or Hideyoshi, since it would basically screw up everything she tried to build in her life. So at the very least, you would know there has to be another culprit.
 
Oct 28, 2009 9:44 PM
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Hahaha, an OVA of the Valentine thing would be quite amusing.
 
Oct 28, 2009 10:04 PM

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OmegaDenmad said:
Hmmm... Hopefully DEEN will animate those as OVAs in between this season and next.

Oh, forgot about something else that's sort obvious but anyway: Eva wouldn't have motives for killing George or Hideyoshi, since it would basically screw up everything she tried to build in her life. So at the very least, you would know there has to be another culprit.


 
Oct 28, 2009 10:05 PM

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The scene with Eva and Battler felt more like Eva losing what was left of her mind after losing Hideyoshi and Goerge. The killings (which she may or may not be involved in but I'm somewhat certain Rosa and Maria were killed by her at least), her fever, Evatrice rambling in her mind and finally the loss of her husband and son lead to Eva snapping and thinking that she was to blame for the murders which lead to her killing Battler in the end.

GarLogan78 said:

Spoiler tag or not, no matter how insignificant it may be, I think it'd be best if we kept anything and everything from EP4 out of this.
 
Oct 28, 2009 10:42 PM

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vinesage said:
francismeunier said:
Very last beatrice? It means she is the only one left with the families' blood? That is bad.

vinesage said:
I think why she is jumping off the building is because she is the only left, maybe even eva died there... and bern said too that its because beatrice she is so alone.

So depression was the culprit? I though it was something that Bernkastel said.
"Knowing Bernkastel she would say that exactly (thanks again) because Time/Space/Worlds is her specialty from Higurashi since I am watching it now. "
vinesage said:
havent watched higurashi, so dont know that :-)

I though you did but I did check your list at all.
"So it is her. A fitting end should I add then. "
vinesage said:
This is actually exactly what I have been thinking for a few minutes now. This arc is a very weird one from beginning to the end. and fact that they even showed us eva pointing gun at battler is too predictable somehow. plus, now that i think about it again, the way eva ended seems pretty odd as well...

Yeah the gun pointing was too predictable but maybe it is to show her killing Battler.
vinesage said:
this is just my thought..(speculation time again :-) )
the murders this arc were done way too poorly, the indication is too obvious and one-sided, instead of totally confusing like before. all hints pointing to eva no matter how people look at it.

So maybe they just wanted to show the point that all die?
vinesage said:
its not that I am having this thought because I think it was too easy to solve for the audience(not only anyway), but rather: this doesnt really fit with eva either.

Maybe because it was another personality of Eva that was more direct with her desires I would think.
vinesage said:
I always had the very strong impression eva was a cunning woman in the 1st arc, she pointed things fast and directly (maybe even coldblood). hmm...well ,guess i cant explain it myself so well either. Anyway, i have the very strong feeling it might have been a trap for eva from the very beginning.

I think her other personality is not like that at all or it surfaced.
Dark_Kain said:
Good episode, tough I found the battler/eva-beatrice confront lacking.
Everything else had a perfect pacing.

About eva's red


I just had to post that link!

Interesting link.
Modified by francismeunier, Oct 29, 2009 5:04 AM

In spoiler my anime list for now.
 
Oct 29, 2009 3:35 AM
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Good episode, tough I found the battler/eva-beatrice confront lacking.
Everything else had a perfect pacing.

About eva's red


I just had to post that link!
 
Oct 29, 2009 5:31 AM

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Ange kickass xD

PlatinumHawke said:

Also, my rage over
is coming on again.

+1 u_u
 
Oct 29, 2009 7:34 AM

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Any subs yet?
 
Oct 29, 2009 11:06 AM

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EDIT:
Subs are out.
http://www.ggkthx.org/2009/10/29/seakitties-18/


Gaah, loved it.
EDIT: Now that subs are out, I removed the spoiler tag.

Wasn't surprised that Beato was evil, since someone already spoiled it for me. =.=
But I didn't expect Virg to be all trollish too! I thought she really wasn't evil!

Eva shot Battler, right? Sooo... does that mean she's the culprit?

Anyway, amazing episode. Loved the music, especially fake red shoes. <3

Modified by Samu-tan, Oct 29, 2009 12:05 PM
 
Oct 29, 2009 12:08 PM

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Extra information










Omitted red truth

Hideyoshi: I was in the room the whole time

Both before and after the time period of the crime
Kyrie was thinking that food was unnecessary
she claimed that they should not leave the guesthouse
[And yet, she herself] suggested that they leave the guesthouse to get food
the reason she changed her mind was not told to anyone, nor was it written down
Until the last instant before she died, Kyrie preserved her pattern of behavior which states 'not going to get food=not going to the mansion'
Kyrie did not leave anything written down


Instead of only listing what was omitted, here's all Eva-Beatrice's red truth at the end.


Battler is neither the culprit or an accomplice.
By this, we can establish a perfect alibi for Eva
There are no more than 18 people on this island
No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game
Kinzo is dead
Krauss is dead
Natsuhi is dead
Hideyoshi is dead
George is dead
Rudolf is dead
Kyrie is dead
Rosa is dead
Maria is dead
Genji is dead
Shannon is dead
Kanon is dead
Gohda is dead
Kumasawa is dead
Nanjo is dead
The 15 people mentioned are dead
Battler is alive
Eva is alive
Jessica is alive
Eva was with you the whole time.
So committing a crime was impossible for her.
Of course, Battler-kun isn't the culprit.
He wasn't forging an alibi for her, and he took the possibility that she was the culprit into account, watching her actions carefully.
No chance existed for her to do anything suspicious!
In short, at the time of the crime, only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servants' room
Ushiromiya Jessica has not committed murder
She was not involved with Nanjo's murder
Her eyes were completely blocked.
It's impossible for her to carry out a murder like that
Neither Eva nor Battler killed Nanjo, nor were they involved
The culprit who killed Nanjo was neither Battler nor Eva nor Jessica
Jessica's eyes were completely blocked, and murder was impossible for her
No actions caused by Jessica's body had any relation to or influence on the murder of Nanjo
This also applies to Battler and Eva
neither Jessica nor Battler nor Eva is the culprit who killed Nanjo
Nanjo was killed by another person
Of course, it was with a direct method of murder, not a trap
A weapon was readied, and he was killed with it from point-blank range in front of him!
The culprit appeared openly before Nanjo's eyes, and as they both looked at each other's faces, the culprit killed him
The red only tells the truth
Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board
The one who killed Nanjo was definitely a human
A human, with their feet on the ground, held up a weapon and killed with it!
Right before his eyes!
 
Oct 29, 2009 12:15 PM

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Could someone tell me which character will be in the next epic painting?

& Marth, thanks for the extra info! ^__^
 
Oct 29, 2009 12:20 PM

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EP4 didn't have a new portrait so I don't know what they will do.
 
Oct 29, 2009 12:38 PM
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IT'S OVER 9000!!!! was the first thing I remembered after seeing the scene in which they attacked battler, made me lol very hard xD
]
 
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