| Do you buy all your manga, light novels, etc or read scans on websites like MangaHere, MangaReader, KissManga..? |
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| No, it's not. There is too much titles available to find what you like without trying a lot of them. Trying them for free is one thing, buying them to try is another. If I could not read online, I would have stopped buying manga long ago. I only buy what I'm sure I'll like. Meaning, what I tried online and enjoyed. In other words : I get titles that I like, I win Authors who publish good stories receive my money, they win Same with their publishers And since those stories are supported, they have (even if only slightly) better chance to not be canceled, so all the fans of those stories win. Everyone win, beside a few crappy manga's authors who didn't get their first volumes bought because I was able to look at them online and discover that they were not worth it. Even them are not numerous, as like I said above, I would have quickly stopped to buy anything if not for online scans. I'd say, that's a pretty good deal for everyone involved or almost. so no, it's not wrong. For LN though, I proceed differently. I buy series after checking very carefully opinions and ratings from peoples I trust, and so on. It's a bit easier to find good and trustworthy reviews on LN than it is on manga, as those for manga are drowning into masses of not trustworthy reviews ImO. Still, sometimes I ends up buying something I regret buying in LN due to not reading them online beforehand. So far, there isn't a lot of case so it's okay, I guess. |
ZefyrisAug 30, 2014 6:33 PM
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| Its not wrong, since we don't steal the printed media, and we never acknowledge it as our own nor making any paid-distributed-copies. I'll buy as long as it is being licensed. Though, I prefer mostly buy from garage sale. |
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| Well if it is right or wrong is just perspectives. I personally don't care. If I didn't read it online I would not be able to read them at all. I have never even seen manga on any shop. Not to mention that most of them are in their original language. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Most likely you wouldn't have paid for it even if it wasn't there. Also there aren't many other places to read chapters weekly at the same time as everyone else. I'll still buy volumes of manga I like. Honestly what if someone wanted to start reading one piece. Is it wrong that they can't afford to pay 10000 billion dollars for every single volume? |
| Previously: BlueXRam |
Tarheelram said: Most likely you wouldn't have paid for it even if it wasn't there. Also there aren't many other places to read chapters weekly at the same time as everyone else. I'll still buy volumes of manga I like. Honestly what if someone wanted to start reading one piece. Is it wrong that they can't afford to pay 10000 billion dollars for every single volume? It doesn't cost 10000 billion dollars though. And if you can't afford something, you should either do something so that you can afford it, find someone who can lend you the stuff or just not get that series. It's not as though there isn't anything that's available for free by legal means. Thus I don't really have any sympathy for people who claim they use illegal means because they can't afford to get it legally. If something genuinely isn't available through legal means in a language they understand, then that's a different matter, as that means that whoever has the rights to make it available to you has, for whatever reason, not done so. So it isn't just you being a self-centred bastard. |
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
kuuderes_shadow said: Tarheelram said: Most likely you wouldn't have paid for it even if it wasn't there. Also there aren't many other places to read chapters weekly at the same time as everyone else. I'll still buy volumes of manga I like. Honestly what if someone wanted to start reading one piece. Is it wrong that they can't afford to pay 10000 billion dollars for every single volume? It doesn't cost 10000 billion dollars though. And if you can't afford something, you should either do something so that you can afford it, find someone who can lend you the stuff or just not get that series. It's not as though there isn't anything that's available for free by legal means. Thus I don't really have any sympathy for people who claim they use illegal means because they can't afford to get it legally. If something genuinely isn't available through legal means in a language they understand, then that's a different matter, as that means that whoever has the rights to make it available to you has, for whatever reason, not done so. So it isn't just you being a self-centred bastard. 73 volumes of one piece, lets just list them at 10 dollars each is 730 dollars. There is no reason somebody should have to spend that much money to get into a series. If it was the case of having to pay for every single manga volume there would not be many manga fans. Stop trying to be a white knight. |
| Previously: BlueXRam |
| It's easy to get the series for under half that price. And then if you want you can sell them on again once you've finished reading them. So long as you don't damage the volumes in between the only cost to you thus ends up being shipping costs. All you have to do is use your brain for a few seconds and the cost of being legal nosedives. You can even make a profit off it if you time it right. Incidentally between this post and this edit (4 minutes later) I did a search and found the first 27 volumes on ebay from a 100% positive feedback seller for a price (including postage) of the equivalent of less than 50 cents each, in good condition. Edit: Seems I misread 9 days left as 9 hours left. The point still stands, though - there's also the first 56 volumes on there for about 300 dollars total as well, for example. |
kuuderes_shadowAug 31, 2014 12:03 PM
| There is no such thing as shit taste. Only idiots who think everyone should have the same taste as they do. |
| It's illegal,but I do it anyway. For people saying there is no option,you can learn Japanese and buy every volume that wasn't released on your language. I myself only buy the mangas I highly respect,like One Piece. |
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| By the way, I always find the whole idea of buying second hand books /having someone lending you the book rather than reading it illegally mostly bullshit. In none of those 3 choices does the author and the editor get any money. Sure, two are legal means and the third isn't. So what? this doesn't change anything. If lending and second hand buying is okay, reading online for free isn't any worse than this. The only difference is that it makes it easier and cheaper for you; it doesn't give anything less to the author/editor since they already get nothing from the two other means. And the fact that there is more choice online don't give any reason to make a real difference. Either I buy a LN/Manga in a way that send money to its author/editor to support/reward; or I'm not paying. any choice of buying it just to say "i bought it" without any of that sum going to its original creators doesn't please me. In the end, the money I gave didn't go where I wanted it to go. Sure that person may buy other manga with my money. or maybe... not. |
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| I dun care since I buy all the LN and mangas I read, plus I like reading on printed paper so yea. well, I read hentai mangas online since my mom would probably not buy me those. Anyways yea, I dun care. |
| I see internet as a big library: I don't pay for a book in a library, I read it for free, but I'm not the owner of that book either, I don't make profit with a book from a library. I wouldn't buy most mangas I read even if I could, I just buy the ones I really like and can afford. So there's nothing lost anyway. |
| If it has solution, don't bother; and if it hasn't, why bothering? Do you like manga? http://gunjoteam.com |
| I check if I can find it in book-version first. If not, I read online. But hell no, I would not buy it, unless it was Monster or Nodame Cantabile. |
| No online sites=I wouldn't bother with manga=wouldn't buy what I do=Industry loses money. |
| I could see where the white knights would have a point if this was anime since there IS purchasable English licensed and subtitled DVDs and all. However, with manga and all the other print media, there isn't that. You have two choices if you want to be the morally correct guy and buy your stuff: Hope it's licensed and you can buy it, or learn Japanese. I'm pretty sure a whole lot of people don't go with the second option, so they just have to hope it gets licensed. Renai Crown (made in 1998 and finished 2002 and not licensed until 2010 I believe) is one of many titles that prove that it can take YEARS for that to happen. There's also the matter of defunct licensing companies like Tokyopop, where you can't buy from them directly any of their titles, and HAVE to resort to second hand to get anything. Or obscure titles that cost ridiculous amounts of money (one licensed yaoi manga I saw was $50-60 for just one of the four volumes). If you're talking about the other media like Light Novels, Manhua, Manhwa, and others, then you're basically screwed from the get go. Hardly ANY of those titles get licensed at all: only immensely popular series like (light novel) Accel World or SAO. TL;DR Unless you know Japanese and can read raw volumes, then you can only rely on licensing companies. But even then it can take years after the series completes to get a license. Or the company goes defunct and you lose access to any title they licensed unless you go second hand. For LN, manhwa, manhua, hardly any of those even get licensed to begin with anyway. You lose access to way too many titles if you only rely on the licensing companies' small selections. |
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| If i could have a great selection of manga/anime in one place, i don't mind paying extra month membership to have it all in one place. Maybe like $20 a month. Sadly, not all studios go to the same place, even in the same country. |
| If I can read it for free,why would I ever spend 10 euros or dollars to enjoy a book I can easily enjoy online for free? |
| I have a collection of mangas from Bleach to Death Note and Bakuman. I wouldn't have known about them if I hadn't read them before on "illegal" sites. |
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| No it isn't wrong. Morals are subjective. |
Kurohashisanji said: If I can read it for free,why would I ever spend 10 euros or dollars to enjoy a book I can easily enjoy online for free? To support the series? Before this year I'd never bought a manga or anime in my life, but suddenly I'm doing that now just to help support the series' I love. Naturally, though, most of the series' I'd like to support aren't licensed or being published in english, like To Love-Ru. |
CasyleOct 11, 2014 3:22 PM
| Its honestly not. That and free is good. I'd only buy to support my most favorite series'. |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
| I like to borrow from my local library whenever I can. Otherwise, I do go online to read. Like someone has said, the internet is like a big library. I have bought some LN's too though, so I'm legit = P |
| Deconstruction ≠ Darker & Edgier Trope ≠ Cliché (Face it, nothing is completely original. Can't make something from nothing so to say.). Fanservice ≠ Ecchi (Though ecchi can please the fans!) Popular ≠ Sucks... maybe Seinen = K-ON! Shounen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei are demographics. Anime/Manga = Japanese Cartoons! Deal with it. Support Movember. Raise awareness of men's health issues. Put a mustache on your avatars or something... |
| Hard to say. Illegal sites are like a double edged sword. If manga, anime were not available on the internet, a large mass of people wouldn't be introduced to them and so obviously there wouldn't be a huge international market too. |
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| Yes but I dont give a damn because its a distribution problem. Its not my fault scanlators upload series as theyre published in Japan whereas over here you have to wait a couple years for something to begin publishing. What am I, Buddha? I cant friggin wait that long. Thats why I sort of "rent" anime and manga as theyre published. I watch/read for free as they release in Japan and pay for it later when they make it to American shores. |
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| No, and I wish people who provide services to read them would stop being persecuted by over zealous goody-two-shoes who think that reading scanalations is the worst thing ever. The fact is, I would have bought ZERO manga if it were not available online somewhere. ZERO. I wouldn't have even heard of it and I would never spend hundreds (or more) of dollars on stuff that I hadn't at least had some exposure to. Fan translations CREATE revenue and interest and stimulate far more income in the industry than what they imagine is being lost. If these publishers who persecute the scanaltors had any brains, they'd USE the popularity of particular fansubs to decide which manga to translate rather than spending all of their time and energy driving them out of business. |
| Here's the simple fact....at least when it comes to me... If illegal sites providing free translations of manga did not exist, then I would never have bought all the manga I have. I'm the type of person that likes reading books the old fashion way, holding it in your hands and flipping pages. I also like to collect my all time favorite series..... But the only way I could've bought anything was to first be able to read it online without any strings attached and then once I knew this is something I wanted to own, I bought it. BTW, American comics are not so easily available online for free....it's not a huge shocker that I have never spent a penny buying American comics...nor do I believe I will anytime soon. |
JustALEX said: Here's the simple fact....at least when it comes to me... If illegal sites providing free translations of manga did not exist, then I would never have bought all the manga I have. I'm the type of person that likes reading books the old fashion way, holding it in your hands and flipping pages. I also like to collect my all time favorite series..... But the only way I could've bought anything was to first be able to read it online without any strings attached and then once I knew this is something I wanted to own, I bought it. BTW, American comics are not so easily available online for free....it's not a huge shocker that I have never spent a penny buying American comics...nor do I believe I will anytime soon. You can find them on IRC if you want American comics. |
JustALEX said: This is an interesting point of view.Here's the simple fact....at least when it comes to me... If illegal sites providing free translations of manga did not exist, then I would never have bought all the manga I have. I'm the type of person that likes reading books the old fashion way, holding it in your hands and flipping pages. I also like to collect my all time favorite series..... But the only way I could've bought anything was to first be able to read it online without any strings attached and then once I knew this is something I wanted to own, I bought it. BTW, American comics are not so easily available online for free....it's not a huge shocker that I have never spent a penny buying American comics...nor do I believe I will anytime soon. From an economic perspective, the issue you guys are discussing about is one of incentives for creator to create vs. distribution to the public. On one hand, the more protected copyrighted materials are, the more creators will create because they are guaranteed to earn from their work. On the other hand, if everything is protected (ie. charged for money), then this may not be the socially benefitial decision since not a lot of people will use the created stuff (ie. not a lot of people will buy the comics etc.) It all depends on the specific of the situation around process of creation, money-making process, and utility gained by the viewers, so to speak. |
| My Reviews and Rants: http://bunny1ov3r.wordpress.com/ 痛就是爱 |
| Gimme a legit way to get up-to-date manga in english/my language and i will buy it. Sigh, How i wish there was something like steam for manga/anime. Without country restriction ofc. |
jljaina said: Um, let's look at the question, shall we? Is reading manga on ILLEGAL sites WRONG? YES. Doing anything illegal is wrong. Illegal means "forbidden by law or statute & contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc" so if you do something forbidden it is WRONG. We may not agree with a law or rule placed before us and I think everyone here has most likely broken some law or rule as some point (be it driving over the speed limits, or even just taking a piece of candy after mom said no, etc). Do you have to agree with the idea of it being legal or not? No. That was not the question asked. Now on a moral ground (having nothing to do with legality), we should try to support our writers. Borrow from a friend or library if you cannot afford them. Have you read everything there? Okay then it gets tricky. I understand not being able or not wanting to spend money (especially for the larger volume series). Used books are great. What some friends and I did was each of us would focus on a different series to buy. There were 4 of us. So if we each buy 10 manga and trade them off, we Each get to read 40 volumes! I know one person who rented out mangas for $1 each. He bought them used, paying $5 max. Then when people he knew stopped "renting" them, he resold them. Now some may not like those ways. You can argue that scanlations are easier to access and you are still just "borrowing." In a sense, yes. But the impact here is much harsher for the publisher, and writer/artist. See, loaning a book, you typically only loan to a few people. A library may hit many more interested people than we can alone, but still a few hundred max for most series'. Online, 1 person buys a copy and thousands of people get it. This majorly impacts sales. Many writers stop a series because of this. Few want to do a ton of work, sell 10 copies (but 100,000 people read it) and make $10-$20. Now figures here can be off, how many books sell and are viewed vary greatly by artist/author and series. So personally, I would rather try and get a manga by other means before resorting to these sites. Now some series no one has. No library, no friend and you have no money. That gets trickier and brings in the morality of things. And then the big one: Language. If a volume is not published in your native tongue, yet there is a translated scan online. This is where even I may falter in judgement. At this point I say " to each their own." So my advise it at least acquire and read what you can LEGALLY first. Then question yourself about the morality and if you want to do something illegal, well it is on your head. But the bottom line for the question of the post remains the same. Yes doing something (anything) illegal is indeed wrong. Oh Christ. By your logic nobody should have helped the Jews during WW2 because it was illegal. Not all laws are just and there is absolutely nothing wrong with breaking a bad law. Also you have been brainwashed by the industry. Most people wouldn't have bought the product in the first place so those are not lost sales. It would only be a lost sale and an impact in sales if the person pirated something they would have bought. |
TyrelNov 3, 2014 1:33 PM
jljaina said: Drunk_Samurai said: Oh Christ. By your logic nobody should have helped the Jews during WW2 because it was illegal. Not all laws are just and there is absolutely nothing wrong with breaking a bad law. Also you have been brainwashed by the industry. Most people wouldn't have bought the product in the first place so those are not lost sales. It would only be a lost sale and an impact in sales if the person pirated something they would have bought. SHOULD HAVE is more about the morals of the matter. If I lived in Germany (since it wasn't wrong worldwide) during WWII and helped a Jewish family , then by law I would be in the wrong. Morally is another matter as I already stated. In this case, saving a life and being just being lazy/broke/cheapskate (depending on the circumstances) are also quite different. Illegally reading a manga helps no one, so that is a terrible comparison. A better example: If you are driving down a paved road in the middle of nowhere is some farmland, where you have a mile or more between homes. Speed Limit sign says 25 MPH. No other cars, traffic or people, just an empty straight road. Even I would not listen to that 25 mph sign. But what I am doing is still illegal and wrong. But frankly, I wouldn't give a damn. Illegal being wrong and choosing to not care or defiantly go against (for any reason) is still a choice we can make. As for sales, even if there were no such things as illegal sites I am quite aware that not everyone would buy products. But more overall would. Just lick anything else in life. If you only have 1 store in the town/city you live in, odds are you will shop there. If there was only 1 game console available and you liked video games, you would most likely buy that console. If manga was not available online, MORE people would buy the volumes. Not all, no. Others would give up the interest or borrow, etc. Does it hurt the bottom line for an artist/author? A few readers do not. Mass readers DO hurt the artists profit. I work with publishers and authors and have spoken to quite a few. Small sale volume does cause authors to quit a series often enough. It doesn't matter what a fucking law says if the law is bad. You claimed that no matter what any law is wrong to break which is a stupid statement. People wouldn't just buy a product they know nothing about. If piracy was completely stopped then I would just not read manga or watch anime. Simple as that. Also still with the brainwashed statements. There is no hurt profit if the person would have never bought the product in the first place. |
TyrelNov 3, 2014 1:34 PM
jljaina said: These are theoretical answers that would probably be given by most people. Question 6 on will vary greatly person to person but the bottom line is only YOU (the reader) benefit. Yet you multiplied by other readers can hurt many who work in the industry. So think about that as well when something is wrong or not. **Please note I am not saying I am perfect or have ever done something wrong. I am simply saying that reading illegally is still a form of piracy (hence the 'Manga Multi-national Anti-Piracy Coalition') and therefor wrong. For many manga artists and publishers, this is there livelihood. You wouldn't want that taken from you now would you? Are there worse things you can do: Yes Do I wish it were legal: Sure. That or publishers translated all manga and I have unlimited money to spend. That works too :) Have I ever read or watched from an Illegal site. Yes. Was it wrong: Yes Will I in the future.... (no comment). For now I stick to libraries, friends and legal sites and ways to obtain manga. When I run out of other means of obtaining manga, then I will have to question my ethic choices at that time. You are now going to have to prove that piracy is wrong. Instead of quoting your 2nd post I'm just going to respond to it here. I never said every single person would do that. Many people wouldn't buy the products though since many people wouldn't have bought the products they pirated in the first place. You also keep claiming that piracy is hurting them which is bullshit since lost sales would only exist if thy had pirated something they would have bought. The irony is strong in your last sentence especially since you have obviously never read any thread on a typical anime forum or anywhere else. Instead you have this brainwashed view shoved down your throat by various industries. |
TyrelNov 3, 2014 1:35 PM
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| I won't quote your post but you used incredibly biased sources. People in various industries claim they lost sales but always refuse to acknowledge that many people would not have bought the products in the first place. So they decide to call LITERALLY every single download as a lost sale. Piracy does not effect the industry like you and the companies are claiming. It wouldn't even be half of what they claimed in lost sales due to piracy. Better translations are why it is better to pirate manga and anime if you want the main reason. Scanlators/fansubbers tend to translate better because most do literal translations vs liberal translations.There are also many valid reasons to despise Crunchyroll other than translation issues. They're hypocrites who were huge pirates and then suddenly start claiming "piracy is bad shame on you douchebags". |
| Not wrong if the series isn't licensed or its English publication has been ceased. |
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Jerkhov said: Not wrong if the series isn't licensed or its English publication has been ceased. ^This. I can't read Japanese, nor do I have a quick way to change USD to Yen. In general, I try to buy as much of the manga I like as I can, but in the case of some series, like Berserk, the release schedule is too slow for just buying the English release to satisfy me. Granted, I do own Berserk volumes 1 through 37, but in general with manga, it's spotty at best whether or not you're actually able to get ahold of a specific series in your language. |
| Yes, I'm well aware my taste is shit. Thanks for reminding me! |
mayukachan said: I check if I can find it in book-version first. If not, I read online. But hell no, I would not buy it, unless it was Monster or Nodame Cantabile. Oh, yeah so I take this comment back. I collect now. I buy all my favourite series if I can find them. |
Ceurin said: What about those honest real artist who has their work in both english and japanese and selling it? What about those websites that uploads their entire work FOR FREE on their website even though they are still crediting them? Is it still okay? I love free anime and manga but I respect and admire that artist. I have a real example right now if you want me to source the artist and how his work is being uploaded for free WITHOUT his permission. As a fellow artist, I know how long, how much effort and time it goes even into a single page. You just described every scanlation site out there. What about it? |
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