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Poll: Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon: Crystal Episode 4 Discussion


Aug 16, 2014 1:46 PM

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WOW.....THE STUNNING DISGUISES AND SECURITY IN THIS EPISODE

Ahhh the 90s.........back when characters could be unrealistically stupid
 
Aug 16, 2014 2:11 PM

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OMO, Sailor Jupiter, yassss.
に触
祟ら
りぬ
な神

 
Aug 16, 2014 3:17 PM

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Fai said:
Khaoticsuccubus said:

Prolly, the only saving grace for them keeping Jadeite alive is that they didn't bring him back into the fight and just continued on with Nephrite. Still... Keeping him alive really makes me nervous about how certain other future plot points will be handled... like reallllly nervous.

I am not waiting for the next story arcs. Not waiting at all. Considering shit like this was freaking tame in comparison of next stuff. and I am now 100% sure TOEI won't handle it well at all.


superprincess6 said:

Don't you think your overreacting a bit? Saying a company can go rot in hell,because they change something.Besides this might be Nako's idea, not Toei 's.


AS star wars proves. Even creators have bad ideas.
THis is a bad idea.

What makes it a bad idea? They're basically IMPROVING the mangas main weakness, and that's weak underdeveloped villains. I'm not sure why developing characters more is a bad idea.
 
Aug 16, 2014 3:22 PM

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I didn't even mention all the other art problems...
The one I only saw and had in mind the whole time was this one of Luna...

 
Aug 16, 2014 4:28 PM

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They are just lacking so much in personality. Kinda surprised they kept the kiss, but anyway I just want it to move along into the meat of the story. Wtf is going on with the animation also...that one shot of Motoki and Umino. And how Jupiter's shoulders were moving at the end...Terrible.

edit: This is what Rei is supposed to be like http://mangapark.com/manga/sailor-moon/s1/v1/c4/9?zoom=1
Modified by ataxia_, Aug 16, 2014 4:44 PM
 
Aug 16, 2014 4:47 PM
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the ep was ok. Kotono sounded flirty at the end. Like I said before, I think Crystal will really shine, or i'll see its true direction, when all five senshi appear.

mm, what are they trying to do to Jadeite?!?! they're going to get offed in the final battle?

Jupiter!
 
Aug 16, 2014 4:47 PM

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I'm starting to lose hope for this anime, I'm a big fan of Sailor Moon but this is not what I expected, also, this episode is not as bad as 3, and I'm not saying it's a good episode lol
Nothing as beautiful as the blue light at five in the morning.
 
Aug 16, 2014 5:16 PM

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insan3Spectre said:
As for Tuxedo Mask kissing Usagi. I think it's more that he can't help but kiss her. There is a reason why the two of them have a very much instant attraction to one another whenever they meet. So, no, him kissing her when she is asleep doesn't really bother me in this context. Calling it "rape" kind of seems like a misinterpretation of the events in my eyes.


Two things. If it wasn't Mamoru and one of the Generals fell in love with Sailor Moon at first sight and couldn't help but to kiss her, would you still feel the same way? And before you say, "Yeah, but they're the bad guys," at the moment no one in the Sailor Moon Crystal universe is actually yet certain whether or not Mamoru is a good or bad guy. He may be a guy with good intentions who prioritizes his own goals.

Secondly, despite Usagi's swooning, Mamoru doesn't know if Usagi likes him back or if she actually wants to be kissed. So he kissed a sleeping girl because he felt compelled to do so, not because he considered for a second how she may feel. Just because a guy loves a woman so much that he can't help but to kiss her, doesn't make it right or any less creepy to do so. He can kiss her romantically next time she's awake so she at least has the option to move forward or pull back.

What I'm trying to say is that Mamoru kissing Usagi in her sleep is not a positive message to send to the audience. There are enough creepers at anime conventions and anime clubs as it is without easily-influenced people getting the wrong idea from a remake of one of the most popular series of all time. I'm glad Luna jumped in and I wish she had done it sooner.

Morridine said:
Squallina said:


- "We'll get that Silver Crystal from you girls, just not while it's the four of us against the three of you. We don't like those odds so we'll just run off now. I'm sure if that thing really is the Crystal we'll come back and get it when there're even more of you."



LOL and you didn't figure yet out that NOBODY has the Silver Crystal yet so that's why they didn't take it now?
Jesus, people, sometimes I really believe you post just because you like to find each and every so called weak point, even when it isn't the case. I mean really.


I must have missed the part where they figured out what was in the box before the Scouts did. Even so, threatening the enemy (who are lesser in number than you) after happily boasting about how powerful you are and then running off seems dodgy to me. "We're unhurt and all powerful! Bye."

Also, if I wanted to really pick on this episode, I would have mentioned something about Usagi's "Imma firin mah lazer". But I let that one slide.
 
Aug 16, 2014 5:47 PM

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Squallina said:


Two things. If it wasn't Mamoru and one of the Generals fell in love with Sailor Moon at first sight and couldn't help but to kiss her, would you still feel the same way? And before you say, "Yeah, but they're the bad guys," at the moment no one in the Sailor Moon Crystal universe is actually yet certain whether or not Mamoru is a good or bad guy. He may be a guy with good intentions who prioritizes his own goals.

Secondly, despite Usagi's swooning, Mamoru doesn't know if Usagi likes him back or if she actually wants to be kissed. So he kissed a sleeping girl because he felt compelled to do so, not because he considered for a second how she may feel. Just because a guy loves a woman so much that he can't help but to kiss her, doesn't make it right or any less creepy to do so. He can kiss her romantically next time she's awake so she at least has the option to move forward or pull back.

What I'm trying to say is that Mamoru kissing Usagi in her sleep is not a positive message to send to the audience. There are enough creepers at anime conventions and anime clubs as it is without easily-influenced people getting the wrong idea from a remake of one of the most popular series of all time. I'm glad Luna jumped in and I wish she had done it sooner.



No, it wouldn't have been cool if any other character kissed her because of her and Mamoru's rather "unique" circumstances. I don't know how to talk about this without going into spoiler territory so I'll spoiler tag this:



I'll admit that this is coming from someone who is familiar with how things go in this story, I remember being somewhat put off when I first saw this scene in the original anime. But, in proper context, I honestly think it's a somewhat sweet scene. I don't really think it's applicable to real life at all, to be honest.

As far as the positive message thing. I'll admit, I'm more worried about them telling a story than considering some creeper guys or whatever. Changing a scene like that would make the adaptation lose a lot of integrity in my eyes. Something that the shoddy animation and artwork at points is already in danger of doing.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

- Geralt of Rivia
 
Aug 16, 2014 5:53 PM
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Raff said:
Mormegil said:


Wait, what? I thought it was every two weeks?


http://ch.nicovideo.jp/sailormoon-Crystal

^ It's there:

【世界最速】「美少女戦士セーラームーンCrystal」5話上映会
放送予定 09/06 19:00
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is was said somewhere that this only airs on the 1st and 3rd Saturdays, rather than bi-weekly. We're going to have some occasions where there is a 3 week gap. Next 3 week gap should be in November between eps 10 and 11.

Anyway big Sailor Moon fan here, and I'm mostly pleased with the show so far. Wonky animation is really my only complaint and hopefully that will be cleaned up for the BD releases.

Personally, I'm happy with the changes. I hate it when an adaptation is 100% the same as the source (I don't recall anyone production-wise saying it was going to be either, just that it would be based off the manga). That's really boring. In that case, I would just read the manga again. So long as it stays 90-95% true, I'm good. I'm really interested in seeing what they do with the Shitennou in this version of the story.
 
Aug 16, 2014 5:59 PM
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Quality.
 
Aug 16, 2014 6:26 PM

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Now that how you steal a kiss
 
Aug 16, 2014 7:07 PM

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insan3Spectre said:
Squallina said:


Two things. If it wasn't Mamoru and one of the Generals fell in love with Sailor Moon at first sight and couldn't help but to kiss her, would you still feel the same way? And before you say, "Yeah, but they're the bad guys," at the moment no one in the Sailor Moon Crystal universe is actually yet certain whether or not Mamoru is a good or bad guy. He may be a guy with good intentions who prioritizes his own goals.

Secondly, despite Usagi's swooning, Mamoru doesn't know if Usagi likes him back or if she actually wants to be kissed. So he kissed a sleeping girl because he felt compelled to do so, not because he considered for a second how she may feel. Just because a guy loves a woman so much that he can't help but to kiss her, doesn't make it right or any less creepy to do so. He can kiss her romantically next time she's awake so she at least has the option to move forward or pull back.

What I'm trying to say is that Mamoru kissing Usagi in her sleep is not a positive message to send to the audience. There are enough creepers at anime conventions and anime clubs as it is without easily-influenced people getting the wrong idea from a remake of one of the most popular series of all time. I'm glad Luna jumped in and I wish she had done it sooner.



No, it wouldn't have been cool if any other character kissed her because of her and Mamoru's rather "unique" circumstances. I don't know how to talk about this without going into spoiler territory so I'll spoiler tag this:



I'll admit that this is coming from someone who is familiar with how things go in this story, I remember being somewhat put off when I first saw this scene in the original anime. But, in proper context, I honestly think it's a somewhat sweet scene. I don't really think it's applicable to real life at all, to be honest.

As far as the positive message thing. I'll admit, I'm more worried about them telling a story than considering some creeper guys or whatever. Changing a scene like that would make the adaptation lose a lot of integrity in my eyes. Something that the shoddy animation and artwork at points is already in danger of doing.


It wouldn't matter if they were married adults. Kissing someone in their sleep is one-sided and a big no-no unless you have both decided in your relationship beforehand that it's ok or he's doing it with the intention of saving her life. It also isn't just about the message it sends to creeper guys. There are creeper girls (and ordinary girls too) who will think this is what love is. I'd just expect more from a 2014 remake of an anime/manga that pretty much defined girl power 20 years ago.

Then again, Japan is going through a "female idols at your service" phase and manga lovers care only about how close to the manga it is (even if that means killing off characters and having male leads force themselves on to the female leads), so I should probably just go back to the 90s if I want some girl power out of this franchise.
 
Aug 16, 2014 7:44 PM

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Tuxedo Mask keeps being without his hat. Does he not have it in this version?

Jadeite should have been killed off after last warning/the jet episode. Before this one I think in the originals. Since that didn't happen. (and Jadeite also found out Sailor Moon's identity") I am kinda glad in a way makes it where the evil Queen isn't so blind and just killing off her minions. So I guess I can see why everyone is bothered a bit with that whole part out.
 
Aug 16, 2014 8:24 PM

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hmm i guess the Sailor Senshi will defeat the four kings at the same time then? Then that battle with Queen Beryl in the end. Hope they show the you know what that leads to Beryl's battle.

Makoto YAY!!!!! So that means the Seven gems will appear
 
Aug 16, 2014 8:58 PM

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I like the fact its not just one king killed after the next, and that its a group effort good subtle change to make it interesting and that kiss at the end... tuxedo mask is smooth ♥
"Whatever happens, happens."



 
Aug 16, 2014 9:34 PM

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Am I the only one who isn't bothered with the art problems?

Anyway, good episode. I couldn't help but go kya kya during the Usagi x Mamoru scenes. They're just that drawn to each other and they can't help it (it's inevitable).

I can't help but laugh at the Four Kings trying to talk smack. "We'll get the crystal and you can't stop us." Right...like if anyone was keeping scores, you'd be at 0-4 now in favor of the Sailor Guardians but you're still talking big haha. Love their hair though.

Makoto next week yay! Next to Rei, she's my favorite. Hearing Koshimizu Ami's deep badass voice makes it even better. Can't wait!
"May those who accept their fate be granted happiness."

"May those who defy their fate be granted glory."
 
Aug 16, 2014 10:22 PM

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xchee said:
Am I the only one who isn't bothered with the art problems?


nope, I don't even notice them

xchee said:


Makoto next week yay! Next to Rei, she's my favorite. Hearing Koshimizu Ami's deep badass voice makes it even better. Can't wait!


the oncoming storm....no wait, that title's already taken by The Doctor XD
<-click
 
Aug 16, 2014 11:21 PM

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I enjoyed this episode more than the first three. Nothing has really blown me away yet, but I'm enjoying it so far. The first three episodes had me kind of bored, but I have faith that it'll get better, partly because I find Usagi somewhat grating, which I won't mind as much once we have the other sailor senshis on screen. Note: I'm going in cold on this series, since I never read the manga, and I don't remember very much of the original anime series, since I watched that ages ago in my childhood.

Whoa, Makoto's voice is really deep and mature-sounding. Not sure how I feel about it yet, but it sure caught me off guard...
Modified by nauticalblue, Aug 16, 2014 11:25 PM
 
Aug 17, 2014 12:05 AM

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Honestly the episode was alright, now the generals have shown themselves and that's it, I wasn't interested until the last 30 seconds.

next episode, MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKO~CHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Aug 17, 2014 1:13 AM

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finally makoto !!

now we must wait for 3 weeks ? that's okay I guess

the problem in the art is acceptable (for me) but still, I'm still disturbed

I want to know the different between the BD version and the original version


 
Aug 17, 2014 1:16 AM

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xchee said:
Am I the only one who isn't bothered with the art problems?

No your not the only one, it takes a while to adjust tho especially if you grew up watching sailor moon but i think a lot of people are exaggerating
"Whatever happens, happens."



 
Aug 17, 2014 1:28 AM

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very good episode, just the prob was the proportions of Usagi as princess in the party
(never had problem with the art of the episodes since was minor details but here was
pretty notable).... talking of princess, Umeno really share the same glasses with the
princess D... and the kiss steal!! x3

and LAAAZOOR MOOOON

btw my reaction when the kings appeared in the roof lol xD
 
Aug 17, 2014 2:24 AM

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amare135 said:
Fai said:

I am not waiting for the next story arcs. Not waiting at all. Considering shit like this was freaking tame in comparison of next stuff. and I am now 100% sure TOEI won't handle it well at all.




AS star wars proves. Even creators have bad ideas.
THis is a bad idea.

What makes it a bad idea? They're basically IMPROVING the mangas main weakness, and that's weak underdeveloped villains. I'm not sure why developing characters more is a bad idea.


Add flashbacks, give more screentime BEFORE that plot point, but don't change the plot point itself.

Jadeite not being killed changes the whole tone of the work AND completely changes the senshi characterization.

What they did was the same as if G.Lucas would remake Star Wars and instead of normal death of Obi Wan, would just decide to let him live and have Vader fail, so he can "expand" the character.
Modified by Fai, Aug 17, 2014 2:42 AM
 
Aug 17, 2014 2:38 AM
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Good episode, my boyhood anime crush next episode sadly the nostalgia train end here for me.
 
Aug 17, 2014 3:10 AM

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Squallina said:
"She's so pretty when she's sleeping. I think I'll just kiss her." (For the record, this isn't romantic - it's a form of rape.

Squallina said:
It wouldn't matter if they were married adults. Kissing someone in their sleep is one-sided and a big no-no unless you have both decided in your relationship beforehand that it's ok

Ahahaha.. oh, wait, you're serious. Oh My God, I raped my husband so many times... Seriously? Kissing = Rape? This is more than exaggerated. This is paranoid and sick...

xchee said:
Am I the only one who isn't bothered with the art problems?

I honestly don't notice any of them, until I read about them on these topics. But some of them are quite funny in the screenshots.

Sailor Moon got a new tiara, but the other two felt kind of useless here.
Makoto's voice in the preview... I feel that I'm gonna love her. Three weeks? I'm gonna go cry in a corner now...
 
Aug 17, 2014 3:28 AM

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omg, so many sexy moment >< My fanboy feelings are over the top.




Sent with Mal Updater
 
Aug 17, 2014 3:45 AM

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Adellaeda said:
Squallina said:
"She's so pretty when she's sleeping. I think I'll just kiss her." (For the record, this isn't romantic - it's a form of rape.

Squallina said:
It wouldn't matter if they were married adults. Kissing someone in their sleep is one-sided and a big no-no unless you have both decided in your relationship beforehand that it's ok

Ahahaha.. oh, wait, you're serious. Oh My God, I raped my husband so many times... Seriously? Kissing = Rape? This is more than exaggerated. This is paranoid and sick...


Yes, performing sexual advances on someone without their consent IS a form of rape.
 
Aug 17, 2014 3:55 AM

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Fai said:


Yes, performing sexual advances on someone without their consent IS a form of rape.


That moment was actually pretty creepy.
 
Aug 17, 2014 6:03 AM

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Well I llike this one.

Waiting 3 weeks for jupiter is totally hidoi. I can't see any reason behind it. Is it so difficult to air a new episode once a week?! In 3 weeks I will forget this anime is airing. how stupid
 
Aug 17, 2014 6:14 AM

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I know that in last week's thread I said that was my favorite episode so far, but I change my mind. This is my absolute favorite episode! So much better than how it was done in the first anime.

Mamoru's character is so much more intense, passionate, romantic and just the right amount of snarky. I loooooove him here. AMAZING episode!



silverwalls said:
huh, seems they really let jadeite alive instead of killing him like in the manga :/ dunno how i should feel about that..
otherwise it was a nice episode, i guess.

They made a lot of little changes from the anime to the manga in this episode. I don't think it's a problem at all. I enjoyed the changes! It's an ADAPTION, it's not a the manga. I feel like if that's all people are interested in... then just go read the manga. Why bother watching an anime? From here on out there will be more and more deviations from the source material. The anime is going to become its own thing eventually. I am excited to see what happens. I love how they stayed true to the characterizations in the manga and the more melancholy atmosphere it takes on.

I love the introduction to the shitennou and I can't wait to see why they kept Jadeite around.
 
Aug 17, 2014 6:18 AM

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-Resident- said:
Vongole said:

I thought it was funny how the Kunzite guy threatened the heroines of world domination and the heroines quickly forgot abt said threat aft seeing Princess D's real eyes lolwut

I used to swoon over the tuxedo mask guy but after this ep I'm just irritated with him. He keeps appearing out of nowhere, stole a kiss from the sleeping Usagi-chan(which I find unforgivable) and then gave mixed messages abt being a friend or foe...like what's his deal..-.-


That was the best part of the episode for me.

I have mixed feelings over Mamoru now too. Didn't expect him to kiss Usagi so early either.


Episode 4 in the anime = Act 4 in the manga. It was done the same way, except Luna did not interrupt! He kisses her just as early on in there. It think it's obvious that he's already madly in love with her and she's already in love with him. To me, Usagi seems to be in love with both Mamoru and Tuxedo Mask without even realizing it. I like that! Of course, Mamoru already knows that they're both the same.

Fai said:

certainly implies Usagi as a bisexual.

No it did not.



I would not say that Usagi is sexually attracted to women, so she's not bisexual. However, she does love good looking people and gets excited whenever she meets a pretty girl. But... does she want to date Rei or Ami? Nope.
Modified by SayNOtoIncest, Aug 17, 2014 6:24 AM
 
Aug 17, 2014 6:33 AM

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frozenmir said:
Well I llike this one.

Waiting 3 weeks for jupiter is totally hidoi. I can't see any reason behind it. Is it so difficult to air a new episode once a week?! In 3 weeks I will forget this anime is airing. how stupid


Yeah it's stupid... Dunno why, but somehow I think, that SMC is bimonthly, because the animators are working on other Animes in the meantime and because the show is ONA and doesn't get money for commercial etc. + their low budget does have an influence on the process altogether. At least makes sense. No idea though, if thats the reason.
Modified by Raff, Aug 17, 2014 6:37 AM

 
Aug 17, 2014 6:41 AM

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The "rape kiss" discussion going on in here... I think it's actually absurd.

"Usagi" or any woman who is kissed while she is asleep has her own agency and can advocate for herself if necessary. If someone says I kiss my husband or he kisses me tons of times while we're sleeping... how do people think they have the right to say it's wrong or some type of sexual assault?

Way too overzealous. Obviously that poster is saying that she CONSENTS to being kissed while sleeping. It's not a big deal.

As far as the anime goes... would Usagi have a problem with that kiss? Would she feel like she was raped? If yes, then I see why it would be an issue. If not then... people are just making much ado about nothing. The scene was supposed to depict "Endymion" kissing "Serenity." That the love they had all those years ago is still alive. Usagi's thoughts about remembering those "sweet lips" are a pretty strong hint that it wasn't a "rape kiss" and she enjoyed it. She wasn't like "eww, no! Why is this happening to me?"
 
Aug 17, 2014 6:51 AM
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Fai said:
amare135 said:

What makes it a bad idea? They're basically IMPROVING the mangas main weakness, and that's weak underdeveloped villains. I'm not sure why developing characters more is a bad idea.


Add flashbacks, give more screentime BEFORE that plot point, but don't change the plot point itself.

Jadeite not being killed changes the whole tone of the work AND completely changes the senshi characterization.

What they did was the same as if G.Lucas would remake Star Wars and instead of normal death of Obi Wan, would just decide to let him live and have Vader fail, so he can "expand" the character.
I never saw star wars before so I can't rely say.But I can say this, your overreacting.A the plot point is still their,the plot point was stopping Queen Beryl,and Queen Materia. Finding about their past lives,and finding out who is the princess is.The main plot point is still there,it just how there getting there might be different.
B As for the characterization, the girls in the first arc were mostly one demensional.This gives them a chance to develope their characters more.The villons were one dimensional and were kill off to quickly.Sure flash backs help, but it makes it better they develope in the present.
C the tone is different , The tone of the story was different in the begening of the anime.This was never going to be exactly like the manga.It was going to be closer,but it was still going to have different things.Your worry that this is going to be bad,because it isn't going to be exactly like the manga. But still could be good,and better.Also even with the changes there still closer than the previouse adaption.
Modified by superprincess6, Aug 17, 2014 7:05 AM
 
Aug 17, 2014 7:03 AM
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Raff said:
frozenmir said:
Well I llike this one.

Waiting 3 weeks for jupiter is totally hidoi. I can't see any reason behind it. Is it so difficult to air a new episode once a week?! In 3 weeks I will forget this anime is airing. how stupid


Yeah it's stupid... Dunno why, but somehow I think, that SMC is bimonthly, because the animators are working on other Animes in the meantime and because the show is ONA and doesn't get money for commercial etc. + their low budget does have an influence on the process altogether. At least makes sense. No idea though, if thats the reason.
I think the reason were getting two weaks,i Because the episodes are not finish yet.
 
Aug 17, 2014 7:12 AM

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SayNOtoIncest said:
The "rape kiss" discussion going on in here... I think it's actually absurd.

"Usagi" or any woman who is kissed while she is asleep has her own agency and can advocate for herself if necessary. If someone says I kiss my husband or he kisses me tons of times while we're sleeping... how do people think they have the right to say it's wrong or some type of sexual assault?

Way too overzealous. Obviously that poster is saying that she CONSENTS to being kissed while sleeping. It's not a big deal.

As far as the anime goes... would Usagi have a problem with that kiss? Would she feel like she was raped? If yes, then I see why it would be an issue. If not then... people are just making much ado about nothing. The scene was supposed to depict "Endymion" kissing "Serenity." That the love they had all those years ago is still alive. Usagi's thoughts about remembering those "sweet lips" are a pretty strong hint that it wasn't a "rape kiss" and she enjoyed it. She wasn't like "eww, no! Why is this happening to me?"


The problem with this is that no one can say no while they're asleep. You're assuming that they want it. What if they really don't? You'd never actually know because they're not awake to tell you. Someone might like being tickled or massaged or hugged while they're awake - that doesn't mean you can instantly assume they like being tickled or massaged or hugged while they're asleep. Sometimes even married couples will say or imply with body language, "I'm a bit too tired for any sort of intimacy tonight." Should the person who wants to be intimate then be intimate anyway because they love their partner and feel like doing it anyway? Would you want your partner doing that to you after a long day when you're exhausted and you just want to sleep?

The facts are as follows:
- Despite a certain attraction they feel towards each other, at the present Usagi and Mamoru don't know each other
- Despite having been lovers in a past life, they are not currently in any kind of relationship
- Usagi was dead tired
- Mamoru is neither friend nor foe at this point
- Mamoru took advantage of Usagi while she was asleep and did so for his own satisfaction, not hers
- She may have enjoyed Mamoru's company and enjoyed dreaming of being kissed by him, but she did not consent to being kissed by him in reality and had no way of stopping it even if she didn't want to be kissed just yet

This is wrong. This is a mild form of sexual abuse, but it is sexual abuse nonetheless and should not be encouraged.

Edit: Just wanted to add, what if she did want to be kissed? What if she wanted to remember being kissed? Mamoru just cheated her out of what might have been a pleasant experience and memory for her, but allowed himself to have that experience. Yes, I'm sure there'll be more kissing later if and when the two get together, but for the moment Mamoru stole a kiss from her because he felt like it and she had zero say in the matter and no real memory of it.

I do understand the romantic nature of the material, but this particular scene is sending the wrong message. There are viewers out there that now believe or have had their beliefs reinforced about stolen kisses being romantic, even if the person being kissed has had no chance to say yes or no on the matter.
Modified by Squallina, Aug 17, 2014 7:22 AM
 
Aug 17, 2014 7:15 AM
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SayNOtoIncest said:
I know that in last week's thread I said that was my favorite episode so far, but I change my mind. This is my absolute favorite episode! So much better than how it was done in the first anime.

Mamoru's character is so much more intense, passionate, romantic and just the right amount of snarky. I loooooove him here. AMAZING episode! Agree the changes to me made things,more interesting,and better. I love the changes too,the changes are enhancing the original story more.I hope they continue, so we get more character development.



silverwalls said:
huh, seems they really let jadeite alive instead of killing him like in the manga :/ dunno how i should feel about that..
otherwise it was a nice episode, i guess.

They made a lot of little changes from the anime to the manga in this episode. I don't think it's a problem at all. I enjoyed the changes! It's an ADAPTION, it's not a the manga. I feel like if that's all people are interested in... then just go read the manga. Why bother watching an anime? From here on out there will be more and more deviations from the source material. The anime is going to become its own thing eventually. I am excited to see what happens. I love how they stayed true to the characterizations in the manga and the more melancholy atmosphere it takes on.

I love the introduction to the shitennou and I can't wait to see why they kept Jadeite around.
Modified by superprincess6, Aug 17, 2014 8:08 AM
 
Aug 17, 2014 7:49 AM

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inlaynocturne said:

Quality.

that made me lol. thanks =p
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Aug 17, 2014 7:51 AM

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Oh... looks like there's some difference between the manga and anime plot already


They are showing more of the 4 Generals compared to the manga too. I think this is looking great so far. I'm hoping there'll be a flashback of their past with the sailor senshi

Sailor Jupiter will be introduced in the next episode. The preview of her transformation sequence looks awesome!! Eagerly awaiting that and Sailor Venus' appearance.
Why can't they make this a weekly anime instead of a fortnightly one? Must. have. patience.....
 
Aug 17, 2014 8:05 AM

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zanpakutoflames said:
Why can't they make this a weekly anime instead of a fortnightly one? Must. have. patience.....

sailor moon seems to be a very low priority for TOEI, which is a shame. they seem to be focusing their resources on the pretty cure series instead (which i heard is pretty popular)
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Aug 17, 2014 8:24 AM

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Usagi got raped and General Tao flies away on a tree.



Anime logic is so mind-boggling. They obviously love each other. In the end they were even lovers in their past life.

DreamingBeats said:
zanpakutoflames said:
Why can't they make this a weekly anime instead of a fortnightly one? Must. have. patience.....

sailor moon seems to be a very low priority for TOEI, which is a shame. they seem to be focusing their resources on the pretty cure series instead (which i heard is pretty popular)


Indeed. That's what I'm thinking too. Additional with the low budget stuff Toei doing it by the way with other series. Hope remains, that the Blu-ray version will be remastered, since they get some profit from these.
Modified by Raff, Aug 17, 2014 8:32 AM

 
Aug 17, 2014 9:56 AM

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Guys you are fun to read (^0^)
1. What's so bad in that kiss. Do you react the same when a beautiful prince kisses a sleeping beauty? Is your mind so very corrupted as to create things like that? I guess we are all adults and see dirtier moments at times, even in real life.

2. Anyway thanks for sharing your opinions, I wouldn't even know a kiss could be called a rape. The conclusion: never sleep alone in public places!

3. Every single episode causes lots of people complaining on fails in arts. I do agree 100%. As I said earlier I don't know whether I'd like this anime if I didn't adore it years ago. It's like they show us only "beautiful" pictures without any character development. The girls are empty.

4. And then comes another disappointment. 3 weeks waiting for an ep.(- -)
 
Aug 17, 2014 10:53 AM

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Squallina said:
The problem with this is that no one can say no while they're asleep. You're assuming that they want it. What if they really don't? You'd never actually know because they're not awake to tell you. Someone might like being tickled or massaged or hugged while they're awake - that doesn't mean you can instantly assume they like being tickled or massaged or hugged while they're asleep. Sometimes even married couples will say or imply with body language, "I'm a bit too tired for any sort of intimacy tonight." Should the person who wants to be intimate then be intimate anyway because they love their partner and feel like doing it anyway? Would you want your partner doing that to you after a long day when you're exhausted and you just want to sleep?

The facts are as follows:
- Despite a certain attraction they feel towards each other, at the present Usagi and Mamoru don't know each other
- Despite having been lovers in a past life, they are not currently in any kind of relationship
- Usagi was dead tired
- Mamoru is neither friend nor foe at this point
- Mamoru took advantage of Usagi while she was asleep and did so for his own satisfaction, not hers
- She may have enjoyed Mamoru's company and enjoyed dreaming of being kissed by him, but she did not consent to being kissed by him in reality and had no way of stopping it even if she didn't want to be kissed just yet

This is wrong. This is a mild form of sexual abuse, but it is sexual abuse nonetheless and should not be encouraged.

Edit: Just wanted to add, what if she did want to be kissed? What if she wanted to remember being kissed? Mamoru just cheated her out of what might have been a pleasant experience and memory for her, but allowed himself to have that experience. Yes, I'm sure there'll be more kissing later if and when the two get together, but for the moment Mamoru stole a kiss from her because he felt like it and she had zero say in the matter and no real memory of it.

I do understand the romantic nature of the material, but this particular scene is sending the wrong message. There are viewers out there that now believe or have had their beliefs reinforced about stolen kisses being romantic, even if the person being kissed has had no chance to say yes or no on the matter.

I do understand what you're saying to a certain extent. But, I see that your mind is made up regardless. Even if Usagi would have no problem with him kissing her (which... I think we all know that she would not), then it's still something negative. Regardless... Mamoru will be in the wrong.

I'm looking at the CONTEXT. Most women/girls would not like to be kissed by some random stranger. People can't run around kissing people who are unaware and without consent. That is molestation.

But... how is that comparable to this situation? The CONTEXT tells me that they're already in love and drawn to each other. It's not a kiss between a pervert who is looking to take advantage of an unconscious girl... it's a kiss between two lovers who have been reunited and having inklings of their memories together. Do you honestly think Usagi (if she were real) would say that she feels like Mamoru kissing her was an act of sexual abuse in that situation?
 
Aug 17, 2014 1:17 PM

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frozenmir said:
1. What's so bad in that kiss. Do you react the same when a beautiful prince kisses a sleeping beauty?


I actually dislike Disney's Snow White and Sleeping Beauty for the exact same reason. In context, the princes are saving the princesses' lives with kisses. In real life, it is reinforcing the notion that it's perfectly okay for men to kiss women in their sleep without their consent.

SayNOtoIncest said:
I do understand what you're saying to a certain extent. But, I see that your mind is made up regardless. Even if Usagi would have no problem with him kissing her (which... I think we all know that she would not), then it's still something negative. Regardless... Mamoru will be in the wrong.

I'm looking at the CONTEXT. Most women/girls would not like to be kissed by some random stranger. People can't run around kissing people who are unaware and without consent. That is molestation.

But... how is that comparable to this situation? The CONTEXT tells me that they're already in love and drawn to each other. It's not a kiss between a pervert who is looking to take advantage of an unconscious girl... it's a kiss between two lovers who have been reunited and having inklings of their memories together. Do you honestly think Usagi (if she were real) would say that she feels like Mamoru kissing her was an act of sexual abuse in that situation?


The context is fine - I'm rooting for them. It's the subliminal message it's giving the viewers. "As long as you love someone, it's fine to push yourself onto them." Why couldn't he have kissed her under the umbrella when she was wide awake, gazing lovingly into his eyes and able to kiss him back or pull away from him if she wasn't quite ready? Is he only capable of stealing kisses? Can he only kiss girls when they're asleep?

While there are people who probably enjoy the thought of someone attractive or someone they're in love with kissing them in their sleep, there are also a number of people who won't like it regardless. Assuming that your partner/crush will like it just because you have the urge to do it is the wrong way to approach the situation. It's the equivalent of hitting on someone (partner or crush) while they're drunk. Even if you're certain they like you and want it, they're not in their right frame of mind and you can't just take advantage of that.

For the record, if the roles had been reversed and Usagi had kissed Mamoru in his sleep, I would be saying the exact same thing.

 
Aug 17, 2014 3:22 PM

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Sailor Moon Crystal really got the short end of the stick. :(
Most reboots of older classics get star treatment -sigh- I still enjoyed it quite a bit though!

I don't know why my reactions always seem to be the opposite of the majority. I thought episode 2 and 4 was bad art-wise and 3 a bit better but a lot people think the other way around. Maybe we're looking at different things.
 
Aug 17, 2014 4:48 PM

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Sailor Moon + Tuxedo Mask relationship is such a romanctic one.... at least when they're Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask. When they're Usagi and Mamoru, it's really tsundere alike.

Now, I still didn't read the manga, so I'm not sure about what plot differences are you talking about when they show us Jadeite is alive.
For me, I really liked this episode and I'm enjoying the series very well!
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Aug 17, 2014 5:48 PM

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Just like the rest of the show.
 
Aug 17, 2014 6:12 PM
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What can I say? I'm just... bored. The show is obviously not what I was hoping for in terms of production quality. It's failing some substantial plot points. It's lacking in any kind of humor that the source material had. In short, it's trying so hard to be glossy, mature, and shiny, and falling so hard on its face.

I just kind of yawn now.

I love Sailor Moon, and I'm happy to discuss and debate it to death. But there's a lack of passion in the actual product we're being given. It makes wanting to discuss it kind of... bleh. Sure, here I am. And every time a new episode premieres I'll be back. But do I wait anxiously, counting down the days on my calendar for it? No, not at all. Three weeks to the next one? Eh, whatever.

On to this episode specifically - Meh. I'm not going to bother ripping apart the animation because it's pretty much the running joke by now. The plot felt all over the place, and the pacing was awful. Ami and Rei felt so ancillary and completely unnecessary. We're starting to hit the "Acts" that could do with some expansion now that the first introduction phase is over. Instead we get a lukewarm storyline, an underdefined Princess D side character, and underutilization of Ami and Rei. Obviously the episode was focused on Usagi, but it's starting to look like Toei is simply being shallow in their interpretations of the source material.

This episode was the first I voted at a "3." The others were at least decent "4s;" animation aside. My roommate looked at me while I was watching the show and said "why do you look so sad?" I didn't even know that I looked sad. But I think it's that dreaded sense of disappointment. I'm not angry or upset, just kind of... blah. I know I'll keep coming back to watch it, but I've had to lower my expectations every week, until I'm just kind of shrugging it all off. I mean, there is a small part of me that's "angry" that such a beloved and popular series isn't getting the right treatment, but it's bluster that's overridden by the profound sense of disappointed hollowness.

For everyone who hasn't read the manga or watched the original series, I don't really understand what the appeal is. Some of the scenes are pretty I guess, but others are so terribly disproportionate with wonky anatomy or just bad art decisions. The plot has been pretty boring as well. "Hey there, here's some magical girls. This one is a ditz, this one is super smart, this one is pretty and sophisticated. And we'll have more with easily identifiable one-note personalities for you to identify with later!" Everyone wants a magic crystal because it's super powerful, but no one knows what it looks like, where it is, or why everyone wants it (excepting the Dark Kingdom). Also, the Sailors are looking for a Princess to protect because...? Well, Luna doesn't really elaborate on the "why." There's no "why" given for almost anything at all. And the show gives me no reason to care or wonder "why." (I'm aware this may come off as an unfair criticism of all of Sailor Moon or the source material, but I'm actually taking aim at Toei's interpretation and the product they've presented us with.)

--

Discussion of the "kiss scene" under the tag because it's long and kind of boring if you're uninterested in that whole discussion.

"You know the old saying; when life gives you lemons, go murder a clown."

"Our opponent is an alien starship packed with atomic bombs," I said. "We have a protractor."
"Okay, I'll go home and see if I can scrounge up a ruler and a piece of string."
 
Aug 17, 2014 6:54 PM
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This is the first episode I've actually enjoyed. Maybe I just will stick with this, after all.
 
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