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Jul 29, 2014 10:23 AM

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Okaishi said:
Fai said:


agreed.

I tleaves mystery for next route as you do not exactly know Archer's capabilities, but he is hyped enough by that fight.

Same with Lancer.


Fair enough. It's only that I'm quite interested from the point of view of someone who has already read all the routes and knows the things it would be spoiling. I definitely agree with you otherwise.


Mystery still better, since your mind can create far better fight.

Forgetfulness said:
-Riptide- said:
I agree with this. It makes you think "How the hell did Archer kill Berserker that many times?". Then you'll find that out in UBW.

Edit: Ninja'd
Actually, if Archer can control all the swords in his UBW, then shouldn't he have been able to kill Berserker completely?

Like just spam swords GoB-style ._.


Does not have enough swords in stock.
 
Jul 29, 2014 10:27 AM

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Fai said:
Forgetfulness said:
Actually, if Archer can control all the swords in his UBW, then shouldn't he have been able to kill Berserker completely?

Like just spam swords GoB-style ._.


Does not have enough swords in stock.

Wait what? Please explain.
 
Jul 29, 2014 10:30 AM

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I think I am imagining things.

Wait do you mean not enough mana?
 
Jul 29, 2014 10:32 AM

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Forgetfulness said:
Fai said:


Does not have enough swords in stock.
...what?


UBW projects anything with one rank lower than the original.
Meaning he had to turn every single one of his B ranked NPs into Broken Phantasms to kill Berserker (God Hand's hax is OP).
It takes about half a minute to charge up a Noble Phantasm and turn it into a BP.
Berserker might have finished him off before he could charge up the seventh one.
Modified by Heisen, Jul 29, 2014 10:35 AM
 
Jul 29, 2014 10:35 AM

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Forgetfulness said:
HeisenDurden said:
UBW projects anything with one rank lower than the original.
Meaning he had to turn every single one of his B ranked NPs into Broken Phantasms to kill Berserker (God Hand's hax is OP).
Berserker might have finished him off before he could charge up the seventh one.
That makes more sense. Also, where is the concept of Broken Phantasms talked about?

I've read about it on the wiki but don't ever recall reading it in an actual source material


I think it was mentioned in Hollow Ataraxia at first.
 
Jul 29, 2014 10:39 AM

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HeisenDurden said:
UBW projects anything with one rank lower than the original.
Meaning he had to turn every single one of his B ranked NPs into Broken Phantasms to kill Berserker (God Hand's hax is OP).
It takes about half a minute to charge up a Noble Phantasm and turn it into a BP.
Berserker might have finished him off before he could charge up the seventh one.
Then that means he didn't have enough time, not swords.

Or maybe I'm just nitpicking now.
 
Jul 29, 2014 10:52 AM

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Since someone mentioned wikia I have a question. Is the typemoon wikia accurate? I've been reading Archer's page and I don't know if the parts regarding his history is accurate or true.
 
Jul 29, 2014 11:17 AM

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Forgetfulness said:
Fai said:


Does not have enough swords in stock.
...what?


I think he means that he does not have enough A-rank NPs to kill him completly?
 
Jul 29, 2014 11:48 AM

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Raziel1991 said:
Forgetfulness said:
...what?


I think he means that he does not have enough A-rank NPs to kill him completly?


THIS

And he does not have time to make up 12 broken ones. Berserker does have great speed too.
 
Jul 29, 2014 12:01 PM

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Broken Phantasm.Wow it is slike they are referring to a broken ability....
 
Jul 29, 2014 12:16 PM

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Fai said:
Raziel1991 said:


I think he means that he does not have enough A-rank NPs to kill him completly?


THIS

And he does not have time to make up 12 broken ones. Berserker does have great speed too.


Yep and also as far as I know Broken Phantasms cost a shitload of prana so he could not simply spam them either.

And speaking of Berserker and UBW

 
Jul 29, 2014 12:22 PM

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ssjokg said:
Broken Phantasm.Wow it is slike they are referring to a broken ability....

its nasuverse. the only way to win is to outhax the opponent's hax with your hax.
 
Jul 29, 2014 12:24 PM

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-Riptide- said:
Since someone mentioned wikia I have a question. Is the typemoon wikia accurate? I've been reading Archer's page and I don't know if the parts regarding his history is accurate or true.


It's good to check up on it to refresh some memories, but take every info in there with a grain of salt. They rip out information provided by some kind translators and replace terms and names as they please without properly checking or validating the info.

Raziel1991 said:
Fai said:


THIS

And he does not have time to make up 12 broken ones. Berserker does have great speed too.


Yep and also as far as I know Broken Phantasms cost a shitload of prana so he could not simply spam them either.

And speaking of Berserker and UBW



 
Jul 29, 2014 12:27 PM

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Fai said:
ssjokg said:
Broken Phantasm.Wow it is slike they are referring to a broken ability....

its nasuverse. the only way to win is to outhax the opponent's hax with your hax.
You know, hax loses its haxness when everything and everyone is/has a hax to counter other hax with.
 
Jul 29, 2014 12:44 PM

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Botato said:
Fai said:

its nasuverse. the only way to win is to outhax the opponent's hax with your hax.
You know, hax loses its haxness when everything and everyone is/has a hax to counter other hax with.


Hence powerlevel threads.
 
Jul 29, 2014 12:48 PM

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Botato said:
Fai said:

its nasuverse. the only way to win is to outhax the opponent's hax with your hax.
You know, hax loses its haxness when everything and everyone is/has a hax to counter other hax with.
They should just add Hax Phantasm in Nasuverse's terminology.
Like ORT's abilities
 
Jul 29, 2014 12:49 PM

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Fai said:
Botato said:
You know, hax loses its haxness when everything and everyone is/has a hax to counter other hax with.


Hence powerlevel threads.
Which can become fucking awful.
 
Jul 29, 2014 12:53 PM

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Botato said:
Fai said:


Hence powerlevel threads.
Which can become fucking awful.
That isnt a powerlevel discussion tho.
I mean you HAVE to understand some things about the chars and powers first.

I mean, yeah, sure there is no doubt(well not counting secondaries,or Saber diehards))that Gil is the Servant Killer, the most powerful Heroic Spirit(and maybe Enkidu as well since even Gil claims that he/it is his equal) but we all know that due to Gilgamesh being Gilgamesh his chances at winning are lowered dramatically.
 
Jul 29, 2014 1:00 PM

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ssjokg said:
They should just add Hax Phantasm in Nasuverse's terminology.
Like ORT's abilities
We also need to specify that the more x's in "hax" the more OP the ability, because ORT's haxx are just too OP.

ssjokg said:
Botato said:
Which can become fucking awful.
That isnt a powerlevel discussion tho.
I mean you HAVE to understand some things about the chars and powers first.

I mean, yeah, sure there is no doubt(well not counting secondaries,or Saber diehards))that Gil is the Servant Killer, the most powerful Heroic Spirit(and maybe Enkidu as well since even Gil claims that he/it is his equal) but we all know that due to Gilgamesh being Gilgamesh his chances at winning are lowered dramatically.
Yeah but what I'm saying is in a power level discussion it's inevitable that examples from the works are brought up, which is fine. What's not fine is when these examples are talked about some people decide to ignore the circumstances of when it happened.
 
Jul 29, 2014 1:00 PM

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ssjokg said:
Botato said:
Which can become fucking awful.
That isnt a powerlevel discussion tho.
I mean you HAVE to understand some things about the chars and powers first.

I mean, yeah, sure there is no doubt(well not counting secondaries,or Saber diehards))that Gil is the Servant Killer, the most powerful Heroic Spirit(and maybe Enkidu as well since even Gil claims that he/it is his equal) but we all know that due to Gilgamesh being Gilgamesh his chances at winning are lowered dramatically.


Same reason why Lancer, despite having one-shot ability, always looses.
 
Jul 29, 2014 1:02 PM

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Fai said:
Botato said:
You know, hax loses its haxness when everything and everyone is/has a hax to counter other hax with.


Hence powerlevel threads.


inb4ShikicankillServants
 
Jul 29, 2014 1:26 PM

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HeisenDurden said:
Fai said:


Hence powerlevel threads.


inb4ShikicankillServants
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception though DX
 
Jul 29, 2014 2:43 PM

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LastChapter said:
HeisenDurden said:


inb4ShikicankillServants
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception though DX


So... how about that third personality of Ryougi Shiki's? She sounds the most hax, even if Nasu does say otherwise.
 
Jul 29, 2014 2:51 PM

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Arkane said:
LastChapter said:
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception though DX


So... how about that third personality of Ryougi Shiki's? She sounds the most hax, even if Nasu does say otherwise.
Has she ever used those abilities?
 
Jul 29, 2014 2:55 PM

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Arkane said:
LastChapter said:
Mystic Eyes of Death Perception though DX


So... how about that third personality of Ryougi Shiki's? She sounds the most hax, even if Nasu does say otherwise.

I wonder if Nasu means Shiki after the coma as the 3rd personality and not AkashaShiki.Touko considers Shikii as a third new personality so...
 
Jul 29, 2014 2:55 PM

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LastChapter said:
Arkane said:


So... how about that third personality of Ryougi Shiki's? She sounds the most hax, even if Nasu does say otherwise.
Has she ever used those abilities?


Nope, though she never had a need to. Well actually, I think she did use it once against Araya, where she killed distance to effectively teleport to him.
 
Jul 31, 2014 9:58 PM

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Fai said:
waalex11 said:
So rude these people.. go easy on me. Sheesh.
But thanks guys. Can you be a little less vague though?


ITs a different story and different character personalities.

- No Saber/Shirou.
- Actual character development.
- No shitty fillers or anime original bullshit.
- No underplayed fights or powers.

clear enough?


No saber at all or she just isn't the main char
 
Jul 31, 2014 10:00 PM

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yeslelno123 said:
Fai said:


ITs a different story and different character personalities.

- No Saber/Shirou.
- Actual character development.
- No shitty fillers or anime original bullshit.
- No underplayed fights or powers.

clear enough?


No saber at all or she just isn't the main char

She's just not the main focus. She does some things, but nothing really important.
 
Jul 31, 2014 11:48 PM

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yeslelno123 said:
Fai said:


ITs a different story and different character personalities.

- No Saber/Shirou.
- Actual character development.
- No shitty fillers or anime original bullshit.
- No underplayed fights or powers.

clear enough?


No saber at all or she just isn't the main char


SHe's here but she's not the main focus. She gets some badass moments and some fights.

JustShiki said:
yeslelno123 said:


No saber at all or she just isn't the main char

She's just not the main focus. She does some things, but nothing really important.


Her fights are pretty important.
 
Aug 1, 2014 12:10 AM

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Fai said:
yeslelno123 said:


No saber at all or she just isn't the main char


SHe's here but she's not the main focus. She gets some badass moments and some fights.

JustShiki said:

She's just not the main focus. She does some things, but nothing really important.


Her fights are pretty important.

I guess it still depends on how you want to see it, but compared to Fate, her role is way less important.
Modified by chuunifuck, Aug 1, 2014 12:16 AM
 
Aug 1, 2014 5:54 AM

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TLDR Read the damn VN
As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all.
 
Aug 1, 2014 1:53 PM
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BloodRequiem said:
TLDR Read the damn VN
It's on my plan to play list for sure.
 
Aug 2, 2014 3:46 AM

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Fai said:
Everything in DEEN'S animu sucked.

THis is why Ufotable wins:





just looking from the gif's we can say the new one is going to be better than the one from deen.
i know that the deen one is several years old, but seriously, this is just lazy, just showing a clash between archer and lancer with 1 hit?
deen plz
current LN reading:
Death March kara hajimaru isekai kyousoukyoku
translated here
for those who are interested in other forums about animes, check randomc.net, reddit.com/r/anime and forum.animesuki.com
 
Aug 2, 2014 3:58 AM
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Urek said:
Fai said:
Everything in DEEN'S animu sucked.

THis is why Ufotable wins:





just looking from the gif's we can say the new one is going to be better than the one from deen.
i know that the deen one is several years old, but seriously, this is just lazy, just showing a clash between archer and lancer with 1 hit?
deen plz

There's something hypnotic about that DEEN Archer vs. Lancer gif
 
Aug 2, 2014 4:03 AM

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Urek said:
Fai said:
Everything in DEEN'S animu sucked.

THis is why Ufotable wins:





just looking from the gif's we can say the new one is going to be better than the one from deen.
i know that the deen one is several years old, but seriously, this is just lazy, just showing a clash between archer and lancer with 1 hit?
deen plz

Why Archer in the fight vs Lancer in Ufotable version only uses Bakuya (the white sword)? If I remember correctly, he uses both swords in that fight.
 
Aug 2, 2014 4:06 AM
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chickenonthepan said:
Urek said:


just looking from the gif's we can say the new one is going to be better than the one from deen.
i know that the deen one is several years old, but seriously, this is just lazy, just showing a clash between archer and lancer with 1 hit?
deen plz

Why Archer in the fight vs Lancer in Ufotable version only uses Bakuya (the white sword)? If I remember correctly, he uses both swords in that fight.

In the VN, Archer starts the fight with one sword and then later uses both Kanshou and Bakuya from what I remember.
Modified by BoxmanJakk, Aug 2, 2014 4:14 AM
 
Aug 2, 2014 4:34 AM

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BoxmanJakk said:
chickenonthepan said:

Why Archer in the fight vs Lancer in Ufotable version only uses Bakuya (the white sword)? If I remember correctly, he uses both swords in that fight.

In the VN, Archer starts the fight with one sword and then later uses both Kanshou and Bakuya from what I remember.

Hmm, my memory failed me then. :/
 
Aug 2, 2014 4:49 AM

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Yeah, Archer only uses one sword in his fight with Lancer but keeps materializing them as they get knocked away. I guess this is one of the first hints of UBW, since Rin and Lancer are surprised at him doing this.
"Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job."

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Aug 7, 2014 3:39 AM

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Seems like Fate fanbase is really divided. Some say, don't watch Fate because "DEEN". Others say Fate=/= UBW, totally different stories. And I know they're different stories, which pretty much means it has additional value to watch.

Some claim mixing up orignal routes is bad. Then others claim fillers are bad. If you stay true to the VN there aren't many fillers. The only thing I can see as a true filler would be the day off, which also happens in the VN, which basically takes an entire day (day 15). And I don't agree that mixing the routes was bad for the quality of the anime. It flows naturally. If you just sit back with 0 knowledge of F/SN it doesn't raise too many questions.

The only real point of critism not to watch Fate would be that it's lower in quality. If you don't like mixed routes/not a direct correleation to the VN, that could also be a reason. Another reason is that you don't like the Fate route. Other than that I see no real reasons to recommend someone not to watch Fate 2006.

Personally I like the Fate route the best
 
Aug 7, 2014 4:12 AM

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doom19876 said:
Seems like Fate fanbase is really divided.


Not really. Every single person knows that DEEN-FSN was BAD.

Some say, don't watch Fate because "DEEN". Others say Fate=/= UBW, totally different stories. And I know they're different stories, which pretty much means it has additional value to watch.

Yes they are but that has nothing to do with DEEN-FSN since it was barely even fate.

And I don't agree that mixing the routes was bad for the quality of the anime. It flows naturally. If you just sit back with 0 knowledge of F/SN it doesn't raise too many questions.


You mean except for the fact that it left half the viewers utterly confused at what teh fuck is going on, while other half labeled this "harem show with dumb protagonist" and pretty much barely could be drawn back into Nasuverse?

Other than that I see no real reasons to recommend someone not to watch Fate 2006.

Except for the fact that it already is contradicted by FAte/Zero and ufotable FSN will contradict it even more and it gives off a wrong impression in terms of main character AND it downplays everything in order to glorify Saber as something "exceptional"?

I think it's even mentioned somewhere or multiple times that humans/mages don't stand a chance against servants.

Normal humans sure. And that's mainly because Servants are invulnerable to contemporary(read: normal) weaponry. You won't see generic magi try to fight servants, but then again, they would not be able to fight phantasms either.

However almost no one in nasuverse is "normal" human and there's half a dozen characters who could fight servants and 10+ who could one-shot them. Are the likes of Aoko human? Sure. And yet Aoko could happily blow up most of the hgw. Sakura at her strongest can take on multiple servants and has enough power to kill them. Rin, even without her sword, has enough output to hurt a servant(and thus enough output to level few city blocks). 5th war characters are NOT "normal humans". And evne then, Shirou only really stands a chance against those who have weakness to his powerset(as in total of one person) - if he tries to fight anyone else he WILL get butchered.

F/0 masters are SEVERELY underpowered when compared to 5th war masters. Loli-Rin could overpower half of them.
 
Aug 7, 2014 4:20 AM

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Latex Sakura wasn't filler that raised questions without ever addressing them again...? Seriously? That was just a shitty attempt to add a bit of HF flavor and it failed. Even when I saw this without reading the VN before, I thought that was just utter crap.

And Shirou has some OP'd elements in all routes.

 
Aug 7, 2014 5:25 AM

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C-Core said:
Latex Sakura wasn't filler that raised questions without ever addressing them again...? Seriously? That was just a shitty attempt to add a bit of HF flavor and it failed. Even when I saw this without reading the VN before, I thought that was just utter crap.

And Shirou has some OP'd elements in all routes.


 
Aug 7, 2014 6:03 AM

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Fai said:
C-Core said:
Latex Sakura wasn't filler that raised questions without ever addressing them again...? Seriously? That was just a shitty attempt to add a bit of HF flavor and it failed. Even when I saw this without reading the VN before, I thought that was just utter crap.

And Shirou has some OP'd elements in all routes.




I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm saying it's also absolutely overpowered because doom19876 said Shirou is OP in UBW/HF and that's why he likes the Fate route more. And I intentionally said "recreation" and not "tracing", because that's what it is. Recreation.
Modified by CapsuleCore, Aug 7, 2014 6:07 AM
 
Aug 7, 2014 6:23 AM

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Fai said:

Not really. Every single person knows that DEEN-FSN was BAD.

Thanks, learned something new.

Fai said:

Yes they are but that has nothing to do with DEEN-FSN since it was barely even fate.

Up until episode 14 it was completely Fate. After that I don't know the episodes. Ok minus the weird ruin scene where the H was taken out.


You mean except for the fact that it left half the viewers utterly confused at what teh fuck is going on, while other half labeled this "harem show with dumb protagonist" and pretty much barely could be drawn back into Nasuverse?

So apperently once again I have to side with either half. The average person doesn't care about the Nasuverse. And since when do you have to care about the Nasuverse to enjoy Fate/Stay Night? It sounds you're just trying to to find errors en plotholes and what not to justify that Fate is bad. You should try this with Steins;Gate and then tell everyone it's bad because it defies physics/logic.


Except for the fact that it already is contradicted by FAte/Zero and ufotable FSN will contradict it even more and it gives off a wrong impression in terms of main character AND it downplays everything in order to glorify Saber as something "exceptional"?
Ok so you don't watch something which is based on the original because they decided to make a story afterwards which contradicts with something that's already out there? If that's the case Fate/KL would have no viewers because it is really nothing like Fate/Stay Night at all...
How does it give the wrong impression of the MC? Fate Shirou in VN is pretty much the same as in 2006, also Saber is also the same. Not everyone has to hate Saber just because you do. Fate route is largely featuring Saber, why shouldn't 2006s FSN?


Normal humans sure. And that's mainly because Servants are invulnerable to contemporary(read: normal) weaponry.

True

Sakura at her strongest can take on multiple servants and has enough power to kill them.

??? If you're talking about HF that's not just Sakura. It's not her power as a mage that enables her to defeat Servants.
Rin, even without her sword, has enough output to hurt a servant(and thus enough output to level few city blocks).

Granted, saving up years of magical energy would enable a temporary burst. But then again Berserker didn't really try to avoid any of the attacks she threw at him.

5th war characters are NOT "normal humans". And evne then, Shirou only really stands a chance against those who have weakness to his powerset(as in total of one person) - if he tries to fight anyone else he WILL get butchered.


Shirou should not be able to face Servant in hand to hand combat. Every servant has a card displaying their parameters. The lowest score on those are E scores which is supposedly 10 times higher than regular human beings. This pretty much means even Caster is supposedly 10 times stronger than Shirou. In other words, Shirou could only dodge physical attacks by Caster, not block them. So don't go tell me he should be able to fight anyone. Sure he might be able to hurt or kill Servants but not fight and be the victor.


F/0 masters are SEVERELY underpowered when compared to 5th war masters. Loli-Rin could overpower half of them.

Source on both? Archibald was supposedly a top mage. Sure waver and the master of Caster weren't as strong as maybe Rin. Kariya, Kiritsugu, and Tokiomi were supposed to be a lot stronger than anything we've seen in Stay night. Kirei didn't have a long line and wasn't a mage to begin with so I can't comment on that.

As far as my concern, Loli-Rin couldn't only do simple bursts of energy.

You must really love Ufotable and hate DEEN just for the sake of it. Afraid you wont fit in if you don't?
Modified by doom19876, Aug 7, 2014 6:28 AM
 
Aug 7, 2014 6:35 AM

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C-Core said:
Fai said:



I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm saying it's also absolutely overpowered because doom19876 said Shirou is OP in UBW/HF and that's why he likes the Fate route more. And I intentionally said "recreation" and not "tracing", because that's what it is. Recreation.


That's about "Magical power" it's not about him being as strong as actual servants. Him being able to stay on his feet more or less after fighting a (wounded) Archer is saying they're almost on the same level, which they definately are NOT. I think a fair comparison would be a 4 year old girl and a world champion boxer giving eachother a brofist at max strength. Ok so handicap for the boxer, he has to use his non dominant arm right after he wakes up. I agree that his powers are strong if not too strong. But that's a fact I'm willing to live with. I'm just saying that if "people" could be as strong as servants, there's not much point in having servants except for their noble phantasms.
 
Aug 7, 2014 6:51 AM

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doom19876 said:
C-Core said:


I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm saying it's also absolutely overpowered because doom19876 said Shirou is OP in UBW/HF and that's why he likes the Fate route more. And I intentionally said "recreation" and not "tracing", because that's what it is. Recreation.


That's about "Magical power" it's not about him being as strong as actual servants. Him being able to stay on his feet more or less after fighting a (wounded) Archer is saying they're almost on the same level, which they definately are NOT. I think a fair comparison would be a 4 year old girl and a world champion boxer giving eachother a brofist at max strength. Ok so handicap for the boxer, he has to use his non dominant arm right after he wakes up. I agree that his powers are strong if not too strong. But that's a fact I'm willing to live with. I'm just saying that if "people" could be as strong as servants, there's not much point in having servants except for their noble phantasms.


It's not like Archer truly tried to kill Shirou in that battle, so this comparison is absolutely meaningless. A Servant has weaknesses and Shirou abused them and made use of his advantages to win. It's really simple. He can copy the strength of Servants. No other magus can do that.

doom19876 said:
If that's the case Fate/KL would have no viewers because it is really nothing like Fate/Stay Night at all...

Bad example. Fate/Zero and Fate/stay night are directly connected. Prisma Illya is from an alternate universe, which still follows the rules Nasu has set. It has vibes of differing FZ events, though.

doom19876 said:
Shirou should not be able to face Servant in hand to hand combat. Every servant has a card displaying their parameters. The lowest score on those are E scores which is supposedly 10 times higher than regular human beings. This pretty much means even Caster is supposedly 10 times stronger than Shirou. In other words, Shirou could only dodge physical attacks by Caster, not block them. So don't go tell me he should be able to fight anyone. Sure he might be able to hurt or kill Servants but not fight and be the victor.


There is this convenient skill called "tracing", which allows him to download the strength and the techniques of the original owner. He can also use reinforcement. Servants are in general by far stronger than humans, but they are not undefeatable. In a normal fight a magus doesn't stand a chance, but every time a Master won in FSN, it was because of circumstances. Shirou wouldn't last long against any Servant in the 5th war, unless they are playing with him/holding back or he traces something OP that works perfectly against them.
Modified by CapsuleCore, Aug 7, 2014 7:09 AM
 
Aug 7, 2014 7:07 AM

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doom19876 said:

Up until episode 14 it was completely Fate. After that I don't know the episodes. Ok minus the weird ruin scene where the H was taken out.

No it was not. It was abridged version of fate with toned down powerlevels, entirety of character development removed and lots of saber wanking. They could not even adapt the prologue correctly

So apperently once again I have to side with either half. The average person doesn't care about the Nasuverse. And since when do you have to care about the Nasuverse to enjoy Fate/Stay Night? It sounds you're just trying to to find errors en plotholes and what not to justify that Fate is bad. You should try this with Steins;Gate and then tell everyone it's bad because it defies physics/logic.

But an average person will care that they have no idea why Sakura is suddenly in latex, nor why Rin and Sakura are all suddenly emo over each other, nor why Archer turns into a pendant, nor what the hell is up with Shirou and his behavior, nor why Shirou suddenly has powers out of nowhere, nor why Illya is suddenly important, nor what the fuck grail is anyway. Because DEEN-FSN is too busy doing bullshit to actually tell you that shit.

And then they go to ufotable's UBW and get even more confused on why Shirou is entirelly different character, Hercules is blitzing shit, everything is far more destructive in terms of power and Saber is just a normal character and not second coming of Jesus that according to DEEN could fight GIlgamesh evenly in fourth war(lol at that).

Steins;gate, except for black hole stuff, is one of better and more accurate time travel portrayals in anime and does not have any logical fallacies.



Ok so you don't watch something which is based on the original because they decided to make a story afterwards which contradicts with something that's already out there? If that's the case Fate/KL would have no viewers because it is really nothing like Fate/Stay Night at all...

BAAAAD exacmple.

Prisma Illya is directly connected to both fsn and fate/zero AND still 100% follows the same rules. It takes place in the same multiverse and Prisma Illya relation to zero/etc is no different than the route relation between each other. No contradictions. ANd its more like FSN than DEEN-FSN ever was.


How does it give the wrong impression of the MC? Fate Shirou in VN is pretty much the same as in 2006, also Saber is also the same. Not everyone has to hate Saber just because you do. Fate route is largely featuring Saber, why shouldn't 2006s FSN?

YEs, Fate-Shirou is totally the same. Except we get to see fate-shirou develop and find out why he ist hat way instead of dedicating time to latex sakura and writing Shirou off as a idiotic sexist chauvinist pig.

If you're talking about HF that's not just Sakura. It's not her power as a mage that enables her to defeat Servants.

Yes it is. Sakura has same output as Rin does, all grail really provides her is infinite mana and a way to shape it.

Granted, saving up years of magical energy would enable a temporary burst. But then again Berserker didn't really try to avoid any of the attacks she threw at him.

Because its Berserker.
And with the sword she needs no save-up.


Shirou should not be able to face Servant in hand to hand combat. Every servant has a card displaying their parameters. The lowest score on those are E scores which is supposedly 10 times higher than regular human beings. This pretty much means even Caster is supposedly 10 times stronger than Shirou. In other words, Shirou could only dodge physical attacks by Caster, not block them. So don't go tell me he should be able to fight anyone. Sure he might be able to hurt or kill Servants but not fight and be the victor.

Except that I just told you that SHirou can only fight exact one specific servant.

Also, hax> stats. Shirou can match stats via tracing, but can't match the haxx - except in one specific case.


Source on both? Archibald was supposedly a top mage. Sure waver and the master of Caster weren't as strong as maybe Rin. Kariya, Kiritsugu, and Tokiomi were supposed to be a lot stronger than anything we've seen in Stay night. Kirei didn't have a long line and wasn't a mage to begin with so I can't comment on that.

Archibald was top mage. Tokiomi was a scrub. Kariya was a failure as mage. Rin at the time of FSN already has more power than either of them and the only problem she faces is Kayneth's hax deffense.
Kerry had pretty much lowest power-level ranking because he completely sucked as a mage. He only really has his origin bullets and there's a reason why he prefers stealthy bs.

You must really love Ufotable and hate DEEN just for the sake of it.


Considering Ufotable so far did most of stuff right, while Deen - most of things terribly wrong, yes.

C-Core said:

doom19876 said:
Shirou should not be able to face Servant in hand to hand combat. Every servant has a card displaying their parameters. The lowest score on those are E scores which is supposedly 10 times higher than regular human beings. This pretty much means even Caster is supposedly 10 times stronger than Shirou. In other words, Shirou could only dodge physical attacks by Caster, not block them. So don't go tell me he should be able to fight anyone. Sure he might be able to hurt or kill Servants but not fight and be the victor.


There is this convenient skill called "tracing", which allows him to download the strength and the techniques of the original owner. He can also use reinforcement. Servants are in general by far stronger than humans, but they are not undefeatable. In a normal fight a magus doesn't stand a chance, but every time a Master won in FSN, it was because of circumstances. Shirou wouldn't last long against any Servant in the 5th war, unless they are playing with him/holding back or he traces something OP that works perfectly against them.


To add to that, Servants are there not for fighting, but for dying. They are there as FOOD.The first HGW did not even have actual "Fighting" rules and was just a bunch of people gathering to reach the root and deciding to kill each other to prevent others doing so.
Modified by Ahenshihael, Aug 7, 2014 7:21 AM
 
Aug 7, 2014 8:18 AM

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C-Core said:


It's not like Archer truly tried to kill Shirou in that battle, so this comparison is absolutely meaningless. A Servant has weaknesses and Shirou abused them and made use of his advantages to win. It's really simple. He can copy the strength of Servants. No other magus can do that.

doom19876 said:
If that's the case Fate/KL would have no viewers because it is really nothing like Fate/Stay Night at all...

Bad example. Fate/Zero and Fate/stay night are directly connected. Prisma Illya is from an alternate universe, which still follows the rules Nasu has set. It has vibes of differing FZ events, though.

doom19876 said:
Shirou should not be able to face Servant in hand to hand combat. Every servant has a card displaying their parameters. The lowest score on those are E scores which is supposedly 10 times higher than regular human beings. This pretty much means even Caster is supposedly 10 times stronger than Shirou. In other words, Shirou could only dodge physical attacks by Caster, not block them. So don't go tell me he should be able to fight anyone. Sure he might be able to hurt or kill Servants but not fight and be the victor.


There is this convenient skill called "tracing", which allows him to download the strength and the techniques of the original owner. He can also use reinforcement. Servants are in general by far stronger than humans, but they are not undefeatable. In a normal fight a magus doesn't stand a chance, but every time a Master won in FSN, it was because of circumstances. Shirou wouldn't last long against any Servant in the 5th war, unless they are playing with him/holding back or he traces something OP that works perfectly against them.

I guess you make some good points. The comparison with Fate/KL was a bit off I guess. but that still doesn't change the fact that Zero doesn't fit perfectly to Stay Night and not reversed.

I thought tracing only meant that he could understand how things were made. I didn't think he could trace abilities properties like strength. Also I'd imagine his ability to strengthen things would be far weaker than Casters.

@Fai
Not to insult you, but you're just stubborn and self-righteous. Abridge versions appear everywhere. Clannad/After story score higher than an 8 (most people like them (and they're abridged)), yet you rate them a one. If we were to delete all anime you disliked for whatever reason. A lot of people would be less than happy.

Sorry to break it to you, but F/Z wasn't the original. There was no way DEEN could have known about the ending of F/Z. All they had to go off on was the fact that, whatever Saber tried she couldn't defeat him the last time or figure out his true identity. In that regard I found it lacking that they never got to have a real fight in Zero since in F/SN it sounded like they atleast had one proper battle.

Even if they watch 2006 first, before going 2014 they should realize it's a different story (which hopefully will flow naturally which wont cause any problems). If they still don't understand and like Fate that much, I'm pretty sure they'll will seek basic knowledge when they need it.

Steins;Gate was in no way perfect. The only two times they applied something relatively close to the butterfly effect was at the first D-mail and the Faris arc. Also they made "rules" that mind leaping couldn't change he past, which makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'm not going to argue with the rest of your points. I know it wont change anything anyway because nothing you say could possibly be wrong and they're solely based upon your opinion.
 
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