Ookami to Koushinryou II Episode 12 Discussion
Sep 24, 2009 12:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
@DragonsWhip: Well I never said my fav anime are the best shows of all time and you can check and see it yourself. But for SaW II to be in top 50 with the way it is, I feel like something is not right. And yeah, not just SaW II that is in the wrong place here there are many shows out there too.
And you are not the first one I heard you say Aria is kinda boring anime, and not the last one either.
Sep 24, 2009 12:29 PM
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Sep 24, 2009 1:05 PM
Sep 24, 2009 1:08 PM
If I were to associate Horo with any dere type it would probably be a tsundere (I don't think she is one though, she's just a teaser).
Attacking people who try to kill her love interest does not make her a yandere in any case, especially if you consider the setting in which the story is set.
And just being jealous of characters like Nora does not make her a yandere either. Calling her a yandere makes about as much sense to me as calling her a kuurudere.
Also, she wants Lawrence to continue making profit because she doesn't want to keep him from his dream of opening a store - it's not an obsession or gold-digging or whatever.
Heh.. since I don't really consider it worth lumping her into a category, I'll give it up. I was really mostly surprised by her violence.
I do believe she is obsessive though. About Lawrence himself, not just his dream. I can understand why; it's obvious she wants to help him and doesn't him to become a worse merchant while they travel. But she's so obsessed about these things that she isn't thinking rationally anymore. She manipulates him into a situation where he could easily be killed. For what? He didn't need the profit or inn that badly. But that's just my $0.02. To each their own..
Geez...so many people are talking down on this show...I don't think it's that bad. I think most of the shows in the top 50 are pretty good....it just comes down to what kind of shows you like to watch. And regarding Aria, people either hate it (or just bored with it) for it's slow pacing or love the slow pacing and feel of the show (not necessarily true for everyone but most).
I think it's just a consequence of the writing style more than anything. As a light novel it's been quite good, but as an anime it tends to drag on at times. Plus, a lot of us are used to instant gratification, so seeing an adult romance unwind in seemingly contrived ways can be a chore. Not to mention the pacing being quite uneven, especially in the second half of the season.
Modified by BashZeStampeedo, Sep 24, 2009 1:15 PM
Sep 24, 2009 1:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
I don't know...I feel as if everything that happened in that last scene came naturally to them. Like the kiss, it seemed like a kiss as if you were saying hi to your wife. Horo doesn't have to react to it as if most anime characters do when they are kissed, but you just know that they love each other kind of thing. I think it feels like they are really comfortable with each other because of all the shit they've been through and how obvious their feelings were before the confession, it was executed pretty well in my opinion.
Sep 24, 2009 1:30 PM
Sep 24, 2009 1:34 PM
Sep 24, 2009 1:40 PM
Sep 24, 2009 2:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Gaiz, that wasn't what I'd call a kiss, that was moar like a brushing of lips. Which seems moar natural in Lawrence's sense, considering Holo wouldn't let him kiss her before. I thought of it as he was stealing a quick moment thar, a "teaser" if you will. I think Holo didn't respond because she doesn't want to admit it.
Otherwise, I cannot wait for a season III. The ending was pretty good, it felt just a little off but I loved it nonetheless. I'ma tiny bit disappointed Abe probably won't show up much anymore, she may in the next season, but I doubt it. I liked her character.
Sep 24, 2009 2:39 PM
Sep 24, 2009 2:51 PM
Sep 24, 2009 3:07 PM
Sep 24, 2009 3:12 PM
Sep 24, 2009 3:34 PM
Yeah, the story was poor with downright bad pacing, and while Lawrence grew a bit as a character, Holo was either out of character or very capricious at that expense. As far as animation goes, I agree, but when it's so bad that it takes you out of the moment in important scenes, it can only be seen as a negative regardless. I think liking something better because it could have been worse is a little crazy.
I don't think anyone is mad that Holo didn't react like a 15 year old shoujo heroine. People are dismayed that after spending the whole season crying, blushing, and acting out about saying (indirectly) she was falling in love with Lawrence, and afraid of what that would mean for her, Lawrence confesses and kisses her, and she isn't the least bit affected. She's been much more emotional about smaller things during the course of the season, but this happens and she just stands there. It's insane.
You hit the nail on the head, Horo's development (or lack thereof) in this season is downright frustrating. The content in volume 4 would have helped a bit, but I guess they wanted to have the most heartwarming scene at the end they could, at the expense of pacing. Even a little tidbit as to *why* she is being so.. insane.. would be better than nothing. The way it stands none of her "explanations" make any real sense, and Lawrence is looking mighty heroic to be able to put up with her BS without getting any reciprocation. In my case I wasn't expecting much out of the second half of the season, so my expectations were slightly exceeded.
Sep 24, 2009 3:39 PM
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Sep 24, 2009 5:30 PM
where you even watching the show? that was not Horo being Horo. Why would Horo get all twitterpated with Lawrence kissing her hand, but when he finally says he loves her and it not joking around she acts as if it didn't even matter. She wasn't happy she wasn't sad, she wasn't normally playful and coy about it, she acted like she could careless. And we all know it was she's been waiting for. Also that kiss was weak as fuck, hell you would probably kiss your mother more passionately then that, it looked like some one was just pressing to barbie doll's faces together.
That's true, they both reacted so weakly I thought it was two planks of wood. I mean, Lawrence had an excuse - he was pummeled half to death and coughing up blood.. not exactly the best of times for a french kiss. And if I was in his position I'd probably be scared to kiss her too.. she might throw me out the window or something (she did viciously punch and kick him at that point).
To me, Horo was the real disappointment here. If she wanted him to behave that way, she could have put some effort into it as well. Crying and shaking like a leaf isn't exactly romantic, let alone punches into your wounds or kicks to the chest. If she really did want the kiss, why not .. you know, participate? During that scene I couldn't help thinking "well, Horo clearly doesn't want him, we were all wrong on the forums".
Sep 24, 2009 5:58 PM
Sep 24, 2009 6:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
I was disappointed in this season. It felt like they spent too much time purposely over complicating things then actually telling the story. Almost every episode that conflict shows up in is obvious yet they manage to make it so confusing to follow thanks to all the repetitive dialog and unneeded chit chat about the same things over and over again.
The first season did a much better job of getting points across as well as keeping up the suspense without trying to confuse the viewers. This season I read the MAL threads and all I see is "I don't know what happened in this episode but I love how Holo did xxxx" (not exact words) which is funny and sad at the same time. It shows that the writers can get away with doing a piss poor job but still manage to please fans with little things like Holo saying she's scared or Lawrence looking helpless. Out of this whole 2nd series I think there was only 3 episodes that where "good", the rest where mediocre. Again this is just my opinion.
If they make a 3rd season I really hope they skip on the repetitive dialog and spend more time on the visuals and story.
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Sep 24, 2009 7:21 PM
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Sep 24, 2009 9:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Hmm. Well cant say i am to fond of this episode. And it made me degrade it from 9 to 8. I loved season 1 and couldent wait for the excitement to continue in season 2 with funny lovely momenets and dialogues between Lawrence and Horo.
Instead it felt like season 2 Horo was the majority of time put in a room or some place away with Amarti and we only saw Lawrence running around desperately and making deals and such. Which for me was okey for the Amarti arc. But a whole season with it. I absolutely dont like people like Abe. and seeing how he was in the last episode made me hate last episode.
the kiss scene in last episode was okey to survive. i waited for the kiss this season, and imo considering how the season went. the kiss shouldent had come this season either. which makes us hoping for a better kiss in season 3.
I also did not like the fact they just went out like they had no more mission to do. Nothing like now its time to get rich or now we are heading to Yoitsu. Just boring end with not excitement.
So during whole season i rated it 9 because i loved season 1 and enjoyed it during the Amarti arc. then i just kept it 9 since it was okey. then the end came and i was dissapointed about what happened and what is left to be seen.
Abe should just die and Lawrence get the money back. And Lawrence and Horo should continue their jorney to Horo's home.
So hopefully season 3 be out and be so good i rate up season 2 for its shittyness since it deserve better if the anime end well.
Sep 24, 2009 9:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
It was a very satisfying episode. Lawrence finally realized what's most important to him (I think), and I liked how he backed out of something he knew wasn't a good business. I liked the dialogue between Horo and Lawrence before Horo was about to be sold off; the understanding the two had of each other was displayed very well I thought.
This season didn't quite live up to the first season to me, but it was still good. 7/10
Sep 24, 2009 9:58 PM
Sep 24, 2009 10:35 PM
Sep 24, 2009 10:42 PM
Sep 24, 2009 10:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
wth with that ending?!!! the rebellion and the thing with abe havent been solved at all...
Invisiblemoose said:yeah, that kinda suck... *cough* i mean disappointing...
Wait... We didn't get ANY Horo in wolf-form this season?
not much story about this season except for development between lawrence and horo. i gave it 8/10.
oblivious is a bliss
Sep 25, 2009 3:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
This episode changed my rating from 10 to 7 - but seriously, this was the fracking worst ending/arc ever. I don't even understand how this is supposed to make any sense?
Can somebody link me to an explanation for this ending and story arc?
Rock Salt Smuggle? Huh? Its like smuggling wood or bread!
I don't get this, and this ending.. i don't even understand the dialog in this episode.. just didn't compute for me.. ;(
Sep 25, 2009 6:19 AM
Joined: May 2009
Sep 25, 2009 6:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Ah, so it was a church sponsored tax/tariff evasion scam... And thats why he sold statues, to avoid the tariff on salt and give the church direct access to salt without having to pay any tariff at all for it to other cities that it passes through. (Ok, now i see why the church does this, that is VERY profitable, and extremely illegal)
Seriously, that should have been mentioned in the Anime (if its this way)
Sorry but since the Anime never mentioned Tariffs at all i didn't think that might play a role here. It certainly explains the entire salt/statue thing though.
Still doesn't explain the confusing dialog between Horo and Lawrence though, any help on that?
Sep 25, 2009 11:29 AM
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