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Poll: Ookami to Koushinryou II Episode 12 Discussion


Sep 24, 2009 12:25 PM

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@DragonsWhip: Well I never said my fav anime are the best shows of all time and you can check and see it yourself. But for SaW II to be in top 50 with the way it is, I feel like something is not right. And yeah, not just SaW II that is in the wrong place here there are many shows out there too.

And you are not the first one I heard you say Aria is kinda boring anime, and not the last one either.


"A Legend is but a tale of a beautiful lie."
 
Sep 24, 2009 12:29 PM

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Again, a huge amount of build up to have boring end, just like the first 6 episodes. The series as a whole really didn't live up to the first season, so with that I'll give it a 7.
 
Sep 24, 2009 12:33 PM

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Wow. What a terrible season. I wasn't into any of it. She didn't even become a wolf once! Not once!! And a terrible ending at that. 6/10
 
Sep 24, 2009 12:35 PM

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BashZeStampeedo said:
Charliehsv said:
BashZeStampeedo said:

Horo's turning out to be a real yandere.


Were we watching the same series?


snip



If I were to associate Horo with any dere type it would probably be a tsundere (I don't think she is one though, she's just a teaser).
Attacking people who try to kill her love interest does not make her a yandere in any case, especially if you consider the setting in which the story is set.
And just being jealous of characters like Nora does not make her a yandere either. Calling her a yandere makes about as much sense to me as calling her a kuurudere.

Also, she wants Lawrence to continue making profit because she doesn't want to keep him from his dream of opening a store - it's not an obsession or gold-digging or whatever.
 
Sep 24, 2009 12:55 PM

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Please correct me if I'm wrong...
1) Was that the first time Lawrence said "I love you" to Horo?
2) Was that really Lawrence who kind of forced/initiated a kiss on Horo's lips?

Wow... pretty gutsy guy.
.
 
Sep 24, 2009 1:05 PM

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Geez...so many people are talking down on this show...I don't think it's that bad. I think most of the shows in the top 50 are pretty good....it just comes down to what kind of shows you like to watch. And regarding Aria, people either hate it (or just bored with it) for it's slow pacing or love the slow pacing and feel of the show (not necessarily true for everyone but most).
 
Sep 24, 2009 1:08 PM
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Charliehsv said:

If I were to associate Horo with any dere type it would probably be a tsundere (I don't think she is one though, she's just a teaser).
Attacking people who try to kill her love interest does not make her a yandere in any case, especially if you consider the setting in which the story is set.
And just being jealous of characters like Nora does not make her a yandere either. Calling her a yandere makes about as much sense to me as calling her a kuurudere.

Also, she wants Lawrence to continue making profit because she doesn't want to keep him from his dream of opening a store - it's not an obsession or gold-digging or whatever.


Heh.. since I don't really consider it worth lumping her into a category, I'll give it up. I was really mostly surprised by her violence.

I do believe she is obsessive though. About Lawrence himself, not just his dream. I can understand why; it's obvious she wants to help him and doesn't him to become a worse merchant while they travel. But she's so obsessed about these things that she isn't thinking rationally anymore. She manipulates him into a situation where he could easily be killed. For what? He didn't need the profit or inn that badly. But that's just my $0.02. To each their own..

saxophone said:
Geez...so many people are talking down on this show...I don't think it's that bad. I think most of the shows in the top 50 are pretty good....it just comes down to what kind of shows you like to watch. And regarding Aria, people either hate it (or just bored with it) for it's slow pacing or love the slow pacing and feel of the show (not necessarily true for everyone but most).


I think it's just a consequence of the writing style more than anything. As a light novel it's been quite good, but as an anime it tends to drag on at times. Plus, a lot of us are used to instant gratification, so seeing an adult romance unwind in seemingly contrived ways can be a chore. Not to mention the pacing being quite uneven, especially in the second half of the season.
Modified by BashZeStampeedo, Sep 24, 2009 1:15 PM
 
Sep 24, 2009 1:20 PM
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I don't know...I feel as if everything that happened in that last scene came naturally to them. Like the kiss, it seemed like a kiss as if you were saying hi to your wife. Horo doesn't have to react to it as if most anime characters do when they are kissed, but you just know that they love each other kind of thing. I think it feels like they are really comfortable with each other because of all the shit they've been through and how obvious their feelings were before the confession, it was executed pretty well in my opinion.
 
Sep 24, 2009 1:30 PM

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BashZeStampeedo said:


Heh.. since I don't really consider it worth lumping her into a category, I'll give it up. I was really mostly surprised by her violence.

I do believe she is obsessive though. About Lawrence himself, not just his dream. I can understand why; it's obvious she wants to help him and doesn't him to become a worse merchant while they travel. But she's so obsessed about these things that she isn't thinking rationally anymore. She manipulates him into a situation where he could easily be killed. For what? He didn't need the profit or inn that badly. But that's just my $0.02. To each their own..



Fair enough...

I don't believe that she predicted that he could have get killed in the encounter with Abe. While both suspected that there was something else going on about the whole deal, neither of them thought that Abe would actually attack lawrence.
But as you said, each to his own.
 
Sep 24, 2009 1:34 PM

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BashZeStampeedo said:


saxophone said:
Geez...so many people are talking down on this show...I don't think it's that bad. I think most of the shows in the top 50 are pretty good....it just comes down to what kind of shows you like to watch. And regarding Aria, people either hate it (or just bored with it) for it's slow pacing or love the slow pacing and feel of the show (not necessarily true for everyone but most).


I think it's just a consequence of the writing style more than anything. As a light novel it's been quite good, but as an anime it tends to drag on at times. Plus, a lot of us are used to instant gratification, so seeing an adult romance unwind in seemingly contrived ways can be a chore. Not to mention the pacing being quite uneven, especially in the second half of the season.


It probably helps that I haven't read the light novels so I don't really have anything to compare it to. The parts that drag on are amplified because we had to wait a week between episodes. This season isn't long, only 12 episodes....most people could probably watch this in about 1 day and would most likely not feel the drag as much.

Also I, personally, am pretty tolerable of varied pacing in shows...as long as the overall product is entertaining.
 
Sep 24, 2009 1:40 PM

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oh myy :D He told her he loves her <333 And he kissed her♥
His confession was perfect, but she didn't return the feelings and the kiss wasn't quite how I expected it (she didn't blush or anything >_<) so I'm a tad disappointed. But aw well, I loved it to death anyways ♥♥♥
I demand a 3rd season now~ ...Just hopefully with a better kiss scene...
 
Sep 24, 2009 2:23 PM
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Gaiz, that wasn't what I'd call a kiss, that was moar like a brushing of lips. Which seems moar natural in Lawrence's sense, considering Holo wouldn't let him kiss her before. I thought of it as he was stealing a quick moment thar, a "teaser" if you will. I think Holo didn't respond because she doesn't want to admit it.

Otherwise, I cannot wait for a season III. The ending was pretty good, it felt just a little off but I loved it nonetheless. I'ma tiny bit disappointed Abe probably won't show up much anymore, she may in the next season, but I doubt it. I liked her character.
 
Sep 24, 2009 2:39 PM

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about some complains made on this season:

bad animation? Well, S&W doesnt have superb animation in its first season either. Animation is obviously not a reason why people watching this show. While I do think it is very regrettable some of the animation scenes arent the best, but Im just glad it doesnt turn out other way around, eg awesome animation but poor characters, poor story - there are really a lot of this kind of shows nowadays, its sometimes just sad...

predictable ending? True, I think few people suspected something else than a happy ending, but thats exactly what we all need isnt it? :-)

confession scene weak? personally I didnt have that feeling. but saying Horo didnt react "normally" (blush, dokidoki or however those school romance describe it) is just wrong, because Horo is Horo, she isnt one teenage 15 year-old innocent school girl to begin with. Im glad she can be different, thats why this show interested me in the first place - because of Horo.
Though I do have the feeling that Horo doesnt have such great impact this season as she did previously. It feels like they choose to concentrate a lot more on Lawrence this time, but, it just a feeling....

overall I would say, its a good season, though people who didnt like the first season most likely wont like the 2nd season either. It has a few flaws, but overall it is still very entertaining. And for people who loved first season and Horo, this shouldnt be missed at all costs. ;-)
 
Sep 24, 2009 2:51 PM

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Bullshit. I love first season but there is no way in hell I'm going to recognize this as the same series.
Ii tenki desu ne...
 
Sep 24, 2009 2:57 PM
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Agreed with Vinesage.
 
Sep 24, 2009 3:07 PM

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Yeah, the story was poor with downright bad pacing, and while Lawrence grew a bit as a character, Holo was either out of character or very capricious at that expense. As far as animation goes, I agree, but when it's so bad that it takes you out of the moment in important scenes, it can only be seen as a negative regardless. I think liking something better because it could have been worse is a little crazy.

I don't think anyone is mad that Holo didn't react like a 15 year old shoujo heroine. People are dismayed that after spending the whole season crying, blushing, and acting out about saying (indirectly) she was falling in love with Lawrence, and afraid of what that would mean for her, Lawrence confesses and kisses her, and she isn't the least bit affected. She's been much more emotional about smaller things during the course of the season, but this happens and she just stands there. It's insane.
 
Sep 24, 2009 3:12 PM

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Underwhelming. First season was much better.

7/10
 
Sep 24, 2009 3:34 PM
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noteDhero said:
Yeah, the story was poor with downright bad pacing, and while Lawrence grew a bit as a character, Holo was either out of character or very capricious at that expense. As far as animation goes, I agree, but when it's so bad that it takes you out of the moment in important scenes, it can only be seen as a negative regardless. I think liking something better because it could have been worse is a little crazy.

I don't think anyone is mad that Holo didn't react like a 15 year old shoujo heroine. People are dismayed that after spending the whole season crying, blushing, and acting out about saying (indirectly) she was falling in love with Lawrence, and afraid of what that would mean for her, Lawrence confesses and kisses her, and she isn't the least bit affected. She's been much more emotional about smaller things during the course of the season, but this happens and she just stands there. It's insane.


You hit the nail on the head, Horo's development (or lack thereof) in this season is downright frustrating. The content in volume 4 would have helped a bit, but I guess they wanted to have the most heartwarming scene at the end they could, at the expense of pacing. Even a little tidbit as to *why* she is being so.. insane.. would be better than nothing. The way it stands none of her "explanations" make any real sense, and Lawrence is looking mighty heroic to be able to put up with her BS without getting any reciprocation. In my case I wasn't expecting much out of the second half of the season, so my expectations were slightly exceeded.
 
Sep 24, 2009 3:39 PM

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hmm what to say about this series... it's now my favourite romance anime.... loved the fact that lawrence confessed... loved the fact that he kissed her...but HATED the fact that the kiss scene was soooo POORLY ANIMATED and of course hated that there was no reaction from horo!!! she was like "heh! was that suppose to impress me?" lol ok it wasn't that but i didn't think of it as an epic kiss scene -_-

when the 3rd season starts airing, brains base better get their act in shape!!! *sighs* disappointed that we all have to wait ages for the next season... i know one person already mentioned it before but why on earth does lawrence have to get his ass kicked everytime?? he got hit with a cleaver,is bleeding and if that's not enough, add a GOLIATH punch and a SPARTAN kick!! lawrence should just pimp slap horo!lol even though i say this i still think lawrence X horo (yes i said HORO not gay ass holo) is the best couple ever!!!

spice and wolf banzaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ^_^


 
Sep 24, 2009 4:07 PM

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Am I the only one that thinks this season wasn't nearly as good as the first? Sure feels that way lol.
 
Sep 24, 2009 4:12 PM

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abe made me quite mad, but when they finally kissed it made up for it. hopefully there will be a thrid season!!!
 
Sep 24, 2009 4:22 PM

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vinesage said:
about some complains made on this season:

bad animation? Well, S&W doesnt have superb animation in its first season either. Animation is obviously not a reason why people watching this show. While I do think it is very regrettable some of the animation scenes arent the best, but Im just glad it doesnt turn out other way around, eg awesome animation but poor characters, poor story - there are really a lot of this kind of shows nowadays, its sometimes just sad...

predictable ending? True, I think few people suspected something else than a happy ending, but thats exactly what we all need isnt it? :-)

confession scene weak? personally I didnt have that feeling. but saying Horo didnt react "normally" (blush, dokidoki or however those school romance describe it) is just wrong, because Horo is Horo, she isnt one teenage 15 year-old innocent school girl to begin with. Im glad she can be different, thats why this show interested me in the first place - because of Horo.
Though I do have the feeling that Horo doesnt have such great impact this season as she did previously. It feels like they choose to concentrate a lot more on Lawrence this time, but, it just a feeling....

overall I would say, its a good season, though people who didnt like the first season most likely wont like the 2nd season either. It has a few flaws, but overall it is still very entertaining. And for people who loved first season and Horo, this shouldnt be missed at all costs. ;-)


where you even watching the show? that was not Horo being Horo. Why would Horo get all twitterpated with Lawrence kissing her hand, but when he finally says he loves her and it not joking around she acts as if it didn't even matter. She wasn't happy she wasn't sad, she wasn't normally playful and coy about it, she acted like she could careless. And we all know it was she's been waiting for. Also that kiss was weak as fuck, hell you would probably kiss your mother more passionately then that, it looked like some one was just pressing to barbie doll's faces together.
It doesn't think, it doesn't feel, it doesn't laugh or cry..... All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die.
 
Sep 24, 2009 4:31 PM

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Well... this was a disappointing sequel. My complaint is pretty much the same as most people's complaint. I'm also pretty upset that Horo was missing for most of the Amati arc. Horo is the star of the show, and I find it pretty inexcusable for them to leave her out of a few episodes. Oh well, it wasn't terrible; it just failed to meet expectations.

7/10

Thanks, person who gave me this on another site a long time ago, lol.
 
Sep 24, 2009 4:59 PM

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Nice series.
Look forward to the 3rd Season..
 
Sep 24, 2009 5:08 PM

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Mikiyo said:
Heck I don't need to say anything, do I? 10/10 and I'll put myself into hibernation mode until S3.

well said^^. It's unbelievable! The last scene is the best... i was not able to believe what happend... just wtf! Damn This is awesome!


 
Sep 24, 2009 5:30 PM
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Jigero said:

where you even watching the show? that was not Horo being Horo. Why would Horo get all twitterpated with Lawrence kissing her hand, but when he finally says he loves her and it not joking around she acts as if it didn't even matter. She wasn't happy she wasn't sad, she wasn't normally playful and coy about it, she acted like she could careless. And we all know it was she's been waiting for. Also that kiss was weak as fuck, hell you would probably kiss your mother more passionately then that, it looked like some one was just pressing to barbie doll's faces together.


That's true, they both reacted so weakly I thought it was two planks of wood. I mean, Lawrence had an excuse - he was pummeled half to death and coughing up blood.. not exactly the best of times for a french kiss. And if I was in his position I'd probably be scared to kiss her too.. she might throw me out the window or something (she did viciously punch and kick him at that point).

To me, Horo was the real disappointment here. If she wanted him to behave that way, she could have put some effort into it as well. Crying and shaking like a leaf isn't exactly romantic, let alone punches into your wounds or kicks to the chest. If she really did want the kiss, why not .. you know, participate? During that scene I couldn't help thinking "well, Horo clearly doesn't want him, we were all wrong on the forums".
 
Sep 24, 2009 5:58 PM

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The last arc seemed a bit rushed but the kiss scene made it worth it. Can't wait for the third season...
 
Sep 24, 2009 6:12 PM

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I was disappointed in this season. It felt like they spent too much time purposely over complicating things then actually telling the story. Almost every episode that conflict shows up in is obvious yet they manage to make it so confusing to follow thanks to all the repetitive dialog and unneeded chit chat about the same things over and over again.

The first season did a much better job of getting points across as well as keeping up the suspense without trying to confuse the viewers. This season I read the MAL threads and all I see is "I don't know what happened in this episode but I love how Holo did xxxx" (not exact words) which is funny and sad at the same time. It shows that the writers can get away with doing a piss poor job but still manage to please fans with little things like Holo saying she's scared or Lawrence looking helpless. Out of this whole 2nd series I think there was only 3 episodes that where "good", the rest where mediocre. Again this is just my opinion.

If they make a 3rd season I really hope they skip on the repetitive dialog and spend more time on the visuals and story.
 
Sep 24, 2009 7:21 PM

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DeathfireD said:
Again this is just my opinion.
And it's a good opinion. You pretty much described how I feel about the second season, I'm glad to see somebody else that is as unimpressed as myself.
 
Sep 24, 2009 7:23 PM

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Yay they're back together xD!

H: What do you want!?
L: You, You!

Yeah ^^! Liked the part where he called her princess, now to wait for season 3 :3!
 
Sep 24, 2009 8:02 PM

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I actually liked the ending. It was good..although I admit I liked season one a lot more.

Atta boy Lawrence. He did his thing.
 
Sep 24, 2009 8:17 PM

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This season was slightly disappointing. Still good though. 8/10

EDIT: That was the worst kiss I've ever seen. lol
 
Sep 24, 2009 8:18 PM

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Ain't it always nice when you don't notice it's the last episode until the very end of that episode.


"We are not men disguised as mere dogs, we are wolves disguised as men."
Jin-Roh
 
Sep 24, 2009 8:38 PM

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KyuuA4 said:
Oosran said:
IZUMI64 said:
give me that kiss scene pic...^^

Oosran delivers, here you go : )


You call that a kiss?! XD


yeah~ i was also wondering about that xD

overall fine series ..
wonder if there's a 3rd season ?


 
Sep 24, 2009 9:08 PM

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the kiss scene could have been so much better x_x


anyway, looking forward to the 3rd season ^ ^

9/10
Modified by dopetess, Sep 24, 2009 9:24 PM
 
Sep 24, 2009 9:16 PM

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Mikiyo said:
Heck I don't need to say anything, do I? 10/10 and I'll put myself into hibernation mode until S3.


This, lol. Yeah great season, I'm looking forward to hopefully having a third season coming!


 
Sep 24, 2009 9:32 PM
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Hmm. Well cant say i am to fond of this episode. And it made me degrade it from 9 to 8. I loved season 1 and couldent wait for the excitement to continue in season 2 with funny lovely momenets and dialogues between Lawrence and Horo.

Instead it felt like season 2 Horo was the majority of time put in a room or some place away with Amarti and we only saw Lawrence running around desperately and making deals and such. Which for me was okey for the Amarti arc. But a whole season with it. I absolutely dont like people like Abe. and seeing how he was in the last episode made me hate last episode.

the kiss scene in last episode was okey to survive. i waited for the kiss this season, and imo considering how the season went. the kiss shouldent had come this season either. which makes us hoping for a better kiss in season 3.

I also did not like the fact they just went out like they had no more mission to do. Nothing like now its time to get rich or now we are heading to Yoitsu. Just boring end with not excitement.

So during whole season i rated it 9 because i loved season 1 and enjoyed it during the Amarti arc. then i just kept it 9 since it was okey. then the end came and i was dissapointed about what happened and what is left to be seen.

Abe should just die and Lawrence get the money back. And Lawrence and Horo should continue their jorney to Horo's home.

So hopefully season 3 be out and be so good i rate up season 2 for its shittyness since it deserve better if the anime end well.
 
Sep 24, 2009 9:44 PM
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It was a very satisfying episode. Lawrence finally realized what's most important to him (I think), and I liked how he backed out of something he knew wasn't a good business. I liked the dialogue between Horo and Lawrence before Horo was about to be sold off; the understanding the two had of each other was displayed very well I thought.

This season didn't quite live up to the first season to me, but it was still good. 7/10
 
Sep 24, 2009 9:58 PM
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Wait... We didn't get ANY Horo in wolf-form this season?
 
Sep 24, 2009 10:35 PM

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lol that kiss looked like it barely connected. "ok" season
 
Sep 24, 2009 10:42 PM

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kisami said:
that kiss was passive and weak....the confession seemed one sided. maybe season three will work to improve that front.
 
Sep 24, 2009 10:49 PM
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wth with that ending?!!! the rebellion and the thing with abe havent been solved at all...

Invisiblemoose said:
Wait... We didn't get ANY Horo in wolf-form this season?
yeah, that kinda suck... *cough* i mean disappointing...

not much story about this season except for development between lawrence and horo. i gave it 8/10.
oblivious is a bliss
 
Sep 25, 2009 3:33 AM
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This episode changed my rating from 10 to 7 - but seriously, this was the fracking worst ending/arc ever. I don't even understand how this is supposed to make any sense?

Can somebody link me to an explanation for this ending and story arc?

Rock Salt Smuggle? Huh? Its like smuggling wood or bread!

I don't get this, and this ending.. i don't even understand the dialog in this episode.. just didn't compute for me.. ;(
 
Sep 25, 2009 6:19 AM

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eRe4s3r said:

Rock Salt Smuggle? Huh? Its like smuggling wood or bread!

I don't get this, and this ending.. i don't even understand the dialog in this episode.. just didn't compute for me.. ;(


Here, something to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_salt
 
Sep 25, 2009 6:32 AM
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Ah, so it was a church sponsored tax/tariff evasion scam... And thats why he sold statues, to avoid the tariff on salt and give the church direct access to salt without having to pay any tariff at all for it to other cities that it passes through. (Ok, now i see why the church does this, that is VERY profitable, and extremely illegal)

Seriously, that should have been mentioned in the Anime (if its this way)

Sorry but since the Anime never mentioned Tariffs at all i didn't think that might play a role here. It certainly explains the entire salt/statue thing though.

Still doesn't explain the confusing dialog between Horo and Lawrence though, any help on that?
 
Sep 25, 2009 11:29 AM

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Deaner said:
This season was slightly disappointing. Still good though. 8/10

7/10, again... high expectations D:
 
Sep 25, 2009 1:39 PM

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Well, nice final episode, though it went a bit fast and anticlimatic. The most anticipated scene was done in a rather boring way. Well, I am content nevertheless.

The whole season was pretty good (though a bit disappointing for being S&W2) and one of the best picks this season, but nowhere near season 1. Yet I will still give it a solid 8/10.
 
Sep 25, 2009 2:04 PM

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good episode and the serie was good to!
it looks like it will be another season!
 
Sep 25, 2009 5:24 PM

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9/10,...................... or maybe 10/10 cant decide =( so Lawrence kept his cool for the whole episode good job xD

Awesome Sig by Lailide
 
Sep 25, 2009 7:43 PM

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I just finished watching ALL of S&W, re-watching S1 using the wonderful KAA marathon option, which connects every episode and removes the opening and endings.

S2 was excellent until the end of episode three, and then the quality started jumping up and down like a rabbit on crack. The opening arc went on for too many episodes, not including Horo for 1.5-2 episodes. This wasn't great for the series when Horo is what makes S&W work. To make matters worse, following lots of dull economics talk that - as ever - I barely followed, it ended in the most anti-climatic fashion possible; with Horo explaining how it was all one big misunderstanding. They didn't even kiss afterwards. It's a shame because it was great to see Lawrence go out of his way to try to keep Horo by his side, the intense 'will she, won't she' drama keeping me glued to the screen, sluggish pacing or not.

For the remainder of the series, it really was hit and miss. Where as Lawrence's chats with Mark in the first story made me a care about more than just the relationship between Lawrence and Horo, there was nothing else in the second half the series besides the flirty barmaid that made me care. Nothing. I only had a vague idea what was going on towards the end, with the sudden fur rebellion and all, and I didn't give a shit. All that kept me watching was the occasional witty conversations of the main two.

This brings me to my main issue: it seemed like Lawrence and Horo started going around in one big circle after the first half. They playfully argued, Horo put Lawrence in his place, there was some sexual tension in the air... and nothing ever happened. They clearly both wanted to do it, yet - to extend the story - nothing beyond playful dog 'n cat antics occurred. And, even though they did *FINALLY* kiss at the very end, it was badly drawn/animated; Horo not even appearing interested. So much blushing and fannying around for that pathetic kiss? Please.

...Despite all of the above, I don't hate it. I never cared much about the background story and supporting cast in S1, and that didn't stop me giving it 8/10. And there was more than enough LawrencexHoro in S2 to please me, including the best relationship drama to date. But watching S2 made me think of S&W as a story slowly becoming highly repetitive and, for the first time, I thought of the story as poorly written (I'm referring to the ingenious 'sell Horo' plan). I was rather excited about watching S2 - ending up watching it as soon as it finished airing - but I can't see me caring a great deal when S3 gets released.

I can't bring myself to give it a 7/10 on MAL, instead opting for 8/10 (though it's inferior to S1 - damn the lack of 0.5 ratings!), for one reason: Horo. Like Spike made people add +1-2 points to their Cowboy Bebop ratings, she makes me add points to my S&W ratings. I mean, I only watch S&W because of her and her surprisingly deep/amusing conversations with Lawrence... I can't think of anything else I've ever watched just for a single character. There's something about her combination of cuteness and intellect that makes me, and many others, love S&W. As flawed as S2 is, Horo manages to save it from ever being truly bad.

/falls to sleep
Modified by AironicallyHuman, Sep 26, 2009 7:22 AM
 
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