Ookami to Koushinryou II Episode 12 Discussion
Mar 24, 2015 2:59 PM
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I thought it was good but not for the ending as it seems rushed to me. Lots of things happening but was resolved without much build up. However, what made it good was that Lawrence himself saw something more important than just earning profits and pursuing his own dream at the expense of losing someone valuable to him. From the first half, the characters were 'tested' to see the bond in between them as I can see how fragile the trust between them were. However, the 2nd half build up their relationship better because both of them genuinely care for each other. Lawrence learned from the person (I forgot his name) who taught him that there is something more than just profiting. I see Abe as the 'alternate version' of Lawrence in the sense that she was willing to profit at the expense of others without any regards to her own life.
Anyway, I am giving it a 7/10 just like first season. I really think the ending could have done better and Holo lost some of her charm as compared to the first season. What happened to the unpredictable side of her? I really wished I don't get to see her hitting and berating Lawrence, not that I think it's bad to show the bond between them but it felt as if the show was trying too hard to tell me about their relationship.
Modified by hysterical_, Jul 29, 2015 12:21 AM
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Everytime Lawrence makes a big deal, he ends up with a lot of trouble and usually with a lot less money. Horo saved him from that with Amarti, on the other hand, the whole thing wasn't Lawrence idea in the first place, but it got "forced" on him by Amarti and Horo. Incidentally, Amarti ended up with a lot less money...
Actually, Horo didn't so much save him as get him in that situation to begin with by over-reacting, then not being honest, then going to Diana instead (who set up the endgame because she was ticked off at Horo). Lawrence would have actually been just fine; it wasn't his own money he was playing with to begin with. Amarti also didn't really lose any serious money, he just took a wound to his pride and ego.
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I just binge watched season 1 and 2 and need to vent here.
So I was after a more series adult anime and this was obviously a highly liked and popular choice.
Season 1 and the subsequent OVA nailed it for me. The drama was mostly believable, the main characters were trying to work each other out, but the issues between them didn't feel "forced". I gave season 1 a 10/10, loved it.
What made season 1 so great was the interactions between Horo and Lawrence, their flirting, squabbles and business deals. They felt like a team, a duo. It had such a good balance of romance, drama and action.
Season 2 lost the plot as far as I'm concerned.
Season 2 managed to kill that feeling. Multiple episodes where they never even spoke to each other, forced drama and plot elements that blew my mind and not in a good way.
The story archs went on wayyy too damn long. Both needed to be cut by 2 episodes each so we could have some actual Spice and Wolf in the anime instead of this forced drama.
The forced drama man... That argument they had about him knowing Yoitsu might have been destroyed all along could have all been avoided if he'd just said "but I don't know for sure, and want to keep searching with it for you, I'm sorry". His character was always shy from emotion so I can kind of understand that, but the way she attacked him blew my mind, and then the signing of that marriage proposal.
I'm not sure if Japan is just chock full of beta males with no self respect, but I don't know anybody that would have taken those harsh words from her, come back to see her signing a marriage proposal with another man (she just met) and actually still tried to be with her.
The anime trope of female characters "testing" the MC is annoying at the best of times in light hearted ecchis, but in a serious anime like this to me it was unforgivable. And I thought once the first arch was over, they would be done with the whole "you don't want to travel with me" thing and they'd "kissed and made up" metaphorically.
But then they went back to it in arch 2 with the "just give me away and use me as collateral if it fails". I'm sorry, what? I know Lawrence hadn't admitted it to her yet, but he knew he loved her by this stage, but was willing to risk their relationship on some money? No, just no. And the way she seemed determined to get them separated after they had just made up like 2 episodes early I found hard to fathom. They had that really cute episode where they first got to the arch 2 town and were all cutesy and back to their season 1 best, and all of a sudden she has another freak out? Felt so out of character.
And the final episode, meant to be the big shabang, totally blew it. She reciprocated no feelings after trying to get him to be open for 17 episodes. Which I'd understand if she was over him, but she wasn't. That entire scene where he said I love you she felt out of character. Where's Horo gone, she's not here, just a cardboard cut-out with no emotions. She reacted strongly to being kissed on the hand but with a stone wall when he finally confessed? Please...
TL:DR: Spice and Wolf lost it's spice and wolf in season 2. The travelling merchant duo disappeared. I gave season 1 a 10/10, season 2 fell flat on it's face to me. The plot was unbelievable, and the characters were unbelievable. 7/10 for me, and I'd put it lower if I didn't love season 1 so much. Season 2 disappointing me, angered me, bored me and left me feeling hollow.
Modified by Commissar_G, Aug 28, 2016 7:42 AM
Aug 29, 2016 8:27 AM
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Season 2 lost the plot as far as I'm concerned.
If anything, season two dropped the safe, cutesy act and showed us just how broken the characters are. It's fine to not like that and wish it had stayed the same as season one, but it didn't really lose the plot so much as progress it It just didn't turn out to be the plot you wanted, to the extent that you naturally don't want to acknowledge the subtext. But the drama wasn't "forced" at all, it was just unpleasant and too concentrated for its own good into one season.
When you consider that these are two very lonely (isolated, really) people who are afraid of hurting each other and being hurt, it all makes sense. The closer they get, the more they risk, and they've been out of touch with their own feelings for so long that they can't cope with such risk like sensible people. Lawrence has been living like a robot for many years, and Holo has basically been a hermit for even longer. Once their relationship progresses and their masks start to crumble, of course they'll do nonsensical and rage-inducing things, like Lawrence freezing up and then boiling over to "win Holo back", or Holo panicking and wanting to run away from their relationship entirely. These are characters with the combined emotional fortitude of a squirrel, once their masks are off, and it takes more than a little flirting and traveling together to overcome such things.
To me it's far less believable that the two of them somehow remained chaste through season one, let alone both seasons.
Sep 10, 2016 6:49 AM
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just watched it in its entirety, i got depressed from the ending tbh, it ended in a "happy"/optimistic way but it didnt finish on any particular note, its actually sad in a way more than if someone would of died and we get to see a scene where a character visits a grave.
anyone know if there is hope of a season 3 ? feels like to much time has passed now for that to happen.
Aiming for 400 completed series. or 10.000 episodes.
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This ending was so sad.
After everything they went through together, especially the Amati arc i was SURE they would have never let each other down. But when Lawrence finally understands what really matters to him, and timidly tries to do something, hes mocked by Horo.
That scene literally broke my hearth. They have (mostly horo) understandable fear of suffering that they will have to overcome:
Everything starts and everything ends. Anything that borns is bound to die. Why should we live if we hare bound to die? Why should we create things that are going to disappear? There is no escape to all of this.
Not being happy because that happiness wont last forever is pointless.
Jun 7, 2017 5:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
An open ending... I think it's something plausible and acceptable for the end of this series.
It's not a "...and lived happily ever after." but it's not a sad ending either.
Their journey doesn't end yet, in fact, a new one started.
I think the kiss could have used a bit more or feeling but, as most of their flirting with eachother till now, they take is as a game and teasing so I'm willing to let this pass; heck, they may even think about it later and realize it.
There's still road ahead to the north. If they split up or not it's not our business anymore. Remember that it's not that she's scared of watching him die, rather than getting bored of the marvelous interactions she has with him.
PD: No really, I wanted- No, they deserved a better kiss, an epic kiss. I mean, they were so freaking adorable all this time... A great kiss could only be justice.
Modified by HumbertoZero, Jun 7, 2017 5:29 PM
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Euphoria said:I think you are very correct, his decisions were idiotic specifically the Amarty saga and this Eve saga
What a waste, i really liked the first season, but this second is a let down. I really hated Lawrence's decision-making.
Anime Is Life| Anime is My Universe| Anime is Freedom!!
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Another great, dialogue-heavy and enticing season of Spice and Wolf. It’s a pity that there isn’t a third season to watch, but I’m hoping we will get that sometime.
I, personally, enjoyed the first season more because it was less dialogue-heavy for one thing, I’m a Science student not an Econometric folk, and Lawrence seemed more confident and enjoyable to watch except for that one blunder in the end. On the other hand, we only got two to three arcs this time and among that we got Lawrences’ poor decision making not once but twice already. I didn’t see that coming, but I imagine such things are only natural for a travelling merchant. I couldn’t help though but feel a little disappointed nonetheless. Even this season finale didn’t live up to it really, it felt really bland I guess. Finally, we got to see Lawrence reveal his feelings for Holo but what was about that kiss though? Bloody hell, first of all, the animation took a sudden dip in quality and, secondly, how did it not affect Holo at all? She seemed completely calm and composed, isn’t that exactly contradictory? Well, leaving this aside, even the next few minutes of the epsiode didn’t really have much of an impact so that’s a little underwhelming considering how great this show has fared over the other 24 or so epsiodes. I’m pretty sure the fate of Abe was indicated by Lawrence in the latter half of the epsiode, but I would still have preferred a little screen time to that.
All in all, though, it was a great and entertaining journey. I might pick up the light novels soon, but I hope a third season is in the making although it’s quite obvious by now that there isn’t.
- Storyline/Plot Development: 7.5/10
- Character Development/Characterization: 8.3/10
- Sound Department: 8/10
- Art/Animation Scale: 8/10
- Personal Enjoyment: 8/10
- Overall: 8.2/10.
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I thought the end was to rushed. The kiss was brushed of to fast. Holo didn't even reacted in the kiss. I think a 13 episode season like spice and wolf 2 would have been good. The main conflicts of the show were resolved. Lorence admitted his feelings , kiss, Holos Hometown doesn't exist anymore... But feels incomplete. Too bad we didn't got a third season. Honestly I'm bit disappointed now. It was more an open end than a truly satisfying one for mem