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Poll: Nadia, the Secret of Blue Water Episode 39 Discussion


Sep 15, 2017 2:51 PM

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[..] To write;

5/5

Almost perfect children adventure, many good elements keeping it above other such shows. Both a celebration of GAINAX peoples taste and a proper rendition of ideas from Vernes.
Stupid expansion episodes.

Score: 8/10


edit:
Aarond44 said:
I thought gargoyle was beaten mind of unceremoniously which was weird

I don't understand your sentence, what do you mean?

He was like a father figure to a 4 year old girl and then became her love interest.

I read this here & there on this website but what makes peoples here believe she was seeing him as a father? (for me, it was nothing else than Samson being "funny" enough for a little girl to "befriend" him like a "big brother". The closest persons to her age looked more like parental figures. )
Also, written like this, it sounds like the guy just trained a child to make her his wife (à la Gigi). By the way, Nemo who "saw Electra as his own daughter" might have make her pregnant.
I was hoping he would raise her.

What lead you to hope for this? (I never really saw such a strong affection developing through the series.

marrying her is just... so gross.

I guess no wedding would have been even more gross then. XD
More seriously, since he didn't raise her, where is the problem?

@CodeBlazeFate Did Samson appear to you like a father gifure over the course of the series?
Modified by Rei_III, Jun 9, 2019 7:00 AM
 
Oct 3, 2017 7:33 PM
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sauveterre said:
Jean/Nadia is cute and there's nothing wrong with Eiko/Ikolina. Sanson/Marie and Electra/Nemo are both fucking weird though. I'll just pretend they didn't happen like all the stupid fillers.


I feel the exact same way. It was out of nowhere too. There was probably meddling involved like the filler arcs, that created that crap. So much momentum & characterization was torn apart during the filler & now the epilogue portions of this show. It's not something I could recommend because of all the hoop jumping you have to do just to enjoy the show. Hopefully, they redo this show someday so we can all enjoy its true potential.

Anyways, besides the crap portions mentioned above the finale was pretty great.
 
 
Dec 30, 2017 6:18 AM
The Shrike

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Just finished my rewatch of this series and I'm keeping the grade I gave it originally. The island/Africa arcs even when one skips them cannot be ignored completely and take it down a notch.
Having said that, it's still one of the finest adventure/fantasy/science fiction combos in anime, with memorable episodes and some great characters. I for one love and will probably rewatch with my kids one day.

Edit. Yeah Sanson/Marie is weird as heck but Electra/Nemo was coming. Nemo raised her it's true, but their relationship was never a real daughter/father one and once Electra revealed that she saw him as a man and almost killed him, well they only had one way to go if they were going to be together. Would have been interesting to see Nadia's reaction to having a little brother.

Speaking of which, somehow seeing Nadia as a housewife rubbed me the wrong way. I just don't see a fesity, fiercely independent young woman like her just settling down and living the conventional married life that was portrayed in the epilogue.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
May 23, 2018 6:14 PM

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A wonderful and true ending of this fantastic series. Nemo's death was a proper death for such a warrior like him! Really loved all bits of this last episode and boy was that last part quite some nice future insight... I just hope that it won't clash with the sequel movie? Probably will I guess?

Still I got to say I found this anime very enjoyable, keeping with the true story arcs of this series rather than the pointless and endless long ones like the island and Africa ones... with that said as well we can't really forget those so it's a bit of a shame to see such a great series as a whole be pretty much destroyed by some really really bad episodes... well I can't say I wasn't warned but heck was I disappointed for not listening this time!

In general quite loved the whole series as is though, and what I didn't expect that could happen actually did with Gainax turning the epicness switch on again after all that shit and actually serving us a proper ending for this series.

But like said I do wonder what the movie "sequel" actually will provide though.
 
Aug 22, 2018 8:17 AM

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Even skipping the fillers this flows too unevenly and drags out quite noticeably. Revelations losing impact, as well as Gargoyle's actions after firing the 50th kind of weapon he has developed don't seem to matter that much at all.

A pity because nice ideas were scattered throughout the whole series.

Also the Sanson-Marie episode was probably one of my favorite ones from the series, not sure how to feel about making them a couple. Kinda gratuitous.
 
Dec 13, 2018 3:49 PM

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xyphoidosiris said:
And during those years you can't call Samson a pedophile. Why? 'Coz that word don't exist yet back then. The word "pedophile" was formed in 1905.

I guess they must've invented the word "pedophile" specifically to describe Sanson, then, hehe. That's my head canon. ;P
::End of Transmission::


 
Feb 24, 2019 12:29 PM

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what a ride & ending. i'm surprised sanson didn't get chris hansened away tho. i though he would be more of a fatherly figure till the end for marie but i'm not complaining. guess that's just how italian maffia works ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Jun 8, 2019 1:26 PM
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Overall a good series, thought gargoyle was beaten kind of unceremoniously which was weird, but overall skipping most of the filler it was solid. HOLY FUCK I can’t get over Sanson and Marie though. That was just waaaayyyy too weird. I didn’t even really like elektra and Nemo, but at least she was a teenager when they met and she was pregnant at like 27. Marie and sanson met when she was FOUR. He was like a father figure to a girl who literally wasn’t even in kindergarten yet and then became her love interest. I was hoping he like raised her and helped Nadia and jean take care of her but marrying her. That’s just... so gross man. Ik it was late 1800s or whatever but like, that’s still fucking creepy to raise the girl you end up marrying like a father then bone her, regardless of time period. Sorry for this long rant but god damn that revelation really just made my skin crawl and almost ruined the finale for me. Just too gross man
Modified by Aarond44, Nov 2, 2020 5:28 PM
 
 
Jun 9, 2019 7:05 AM

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Rei366 said:
[..] To write;

5/5

Almost perfect children adventure, many good elements keeping it above other such shows. Both a celebration of GAINAX peoples taste and a proper rendition of ideas from Vernes.
Stupid expansion episodes.

Score: 8/10


edit:
Aarond44 said:
I thought gargoyle was beaten mind of unceremoniously which was weird

I don't understand your sentence, what do you mean?

He was like a father figure to a 4 year old girl and then became her love interest.

I read this here & there on this website but what makes peoples here believe she was seeing him as a father? (for me, it was nothing else than Samson being "funny" enough for a little girl to "befriend" him like a "big brother". The closest persons to her age looked more like parental figures. )
Also, written like this, it sounds like the guy just trained a child to make her his wife (à la Gigi). By the way, Nemo who "saw Electra as his own daughter" might have make her pregnant.
I was hoping he would raise her.

What lead you to hope for this? (I never really saw such a strong affection developing through the series.

marrying her is just... so gross.

I guess no wedding would have been even more gross then. XD
More seriously, since he didn't raise her, where is the problem?

@CodeBlazeFate Did Samson appear to you like a father gifure over the course of the series?
In a way, yea. He was easily one of the best characters of the show, even when it stopped being good over halfway through. Still, that couple thing...yikes.
 
Jun 9, 2019 8:40 AM
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Rei366 said:
[..] To write;

5/5

Almost perfect children adventure, many good elements keeping it above other such shows. Both a celebration of GAINAX peoples taste and a proper rendition of ideas from Vernes.
Stupid expansion episodes.

Score: 8/10


edit:
Aarond44 said:
I thought gargoyle was beaten mind of unceremoniously which was weird

I don't understand your sentence, what do you mean?

He was like a father figure to a 4 year old girl and then became her love interest.

I read this here & there on this website but what makes peoples here believe she was seeing him as a father? (for me, it was nothing else than Samson being "funny" enough for a little girl to "befriend" him like a "big brother". The closest persons to her age looked more like parental figures. )
Also, written like this, it sounds like the guy just trained a child to make her his wife (à la Gigi). By the way, Nemo who "saw Electra as his own daughter" might have make her pregnant.
I was hoping he would raise her.

What lead you to hope for this? (I never really saw such a strong affection developing through the series.

marrying her is just... so gross.

I guess no wedding would have been even more gross then. XD
More seriously, since he didn't raise her, where is the problem?

@CodeBlazeFate Did Samson appear to you like a father gifure over the course of the series?

So on the first one I meant he was beaten kind of unceremoniously, ie there had been a big epic confrontation with the main characters and he seemed to be winning, then out of fucking nowhere the nautilus shows up and blasts him to hell. It was a total deus ex machina (how did that giant space ship even maneuver through red Noah anyway?) and it’s weird to kill off the main antagonist (yeah Ik technically the blue water killed him, but he was already gonna die from those injuries imo) in such a way.

On the Marie stuff, I mean yikes man. He was constantly protecting her and when he had to do dangerous stuff he would ask other characters to make sure they look after her well while he’s gone and in case he doesn’t make it back. Those are generally very paternal tendencies, and if they’re interpreted as more romantic loving tendencies then that’s just a worse level of gross cuz she’s 4 years old, and if I have to explain why that’s bad then I don’t know what to tell you chief. I’m not saying he trained her to be his bride, but he’s known her since she was preschool aged and watched her grow up basically all her life while being more than old enough to be her dad, then married her while she’s still a teen that’s just weird for both of them, makes sanson look kinda pedo and Marie look Oedipal(or the female equivalent).

Don’t get me wrong I loved both characters, and yeah if they didn’t get married it’d be worse that she was pregnant (though I sustain that a 40 yo man marrying a 15 yo girl is real weird and gross. Have you met most 15 year old people? They are very much not adults yet regardless of gender) but that pairing is just too weird for me. Not trying to ruin it if you think its fine, I mean if this doesn’t convince you then I guess you just have some kind of different cultural or personal values and we’ll agree to disagree, but this relationship seems borderline predatory and definitely was a strange narrative choice on anno’s part, as it really didn’t have much in the way of relationship development (at least in the romantic sense) during the run of the show
 
Jun 10, 2019 11:57 AM

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@Aarond44 Thanks for the clarification and for helping me to remember about Sanson's attitude. ^^

"I sustain that a 40 yo man marrying a 15 yo girl is really weird and gross."
I don't know about "gross" but I don't consider romantic age gaps viable either, when it includes someone below 30-smthng (expectations, behaviour, values are easier to share beyond a certain minima). But that's based on nowadays peoples, where being adult doesn't really come earlier (in average) to the point where neologisms were created (" adul-escent"/"kidult" for example).

"Have you met most 15 year old people? They are very much not adults yet regardless of gender)"
Partly answered above but:
Currently trying university at 30+, it's easy to say this for my 20year old comrades, despite how relatively calm, serious, distanced/"mature" they can be, as well as some students from superior years (I can't even consider myself as one, I admit). At best, some of the "doctorate" students seem "adult". ♀ look like they hve an advantage over ♂ to me.

"That pairing is too weird for me. Not trying to ruin it ."
No problem, I was only questioning. ^^ To "ruin" a fiction would require very active decisions from the author and not just an epilogue wedding and watchers bewildered by it.

"it really didn’t have much in the way of relationship development (at least in the romantic sense) during the run of the show."
I am in total agreement with this. But unlike most people, I have no problem with epilogues stating something that was never hinted/alluded to (unlike weirdly unprepared events in the main course). So I don't see this as a "narrative choice".
Also, romance-wise, I'm fine with the focus being solely Jean&Nadia since their relationship takes an important role in the overall series and for Nadia's progression. Since this "pairing" is not part of the story, I accept Anno telling me that happened. Just like that, out of screen.
Modified by Rei_III, Aug 21, 6:26 AM
 
Jul 15, 2019 9:49 PM

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Yeah, I seem to be in the minority here, but I was not at all impressed with the way they ended this. Persistent continuity problems continue right up to the end, with Nadia being suddenly back in her circus uniform when it's time to go home, after two episodes in that awful Neo Atlantis costume, and Electra's battle damaged "plug suit" looking like brand new again at the same time

Farabeuf said:
Speaking of which, somehow seeing Nadia as a housewife rubbed me the wrong way. I just don't see a fesity, fiercely independent young woman like her just settling down and living the conventional married life that was portrayed in the epilogue.


Absolutely. Everything about Nadia and Jean's ending feels completely forced and contrived to me. Their chemistry sucks and they've never even got along that well. It sort of felt to me at the climax like Nadia was sacrificing her father's life and sacrificing the most valuable artefact of her race to save a boy she only kinda-sorta liked who helped her out a few times because people were chasing her. Their strength as a couple doesn't really stack up to the intense circumstances surrounding them?

ZetaZaku said:
So basically Nadia pulled an Usagi Drop way before Usagi Drop. Guy literally raised the mother of his future child. At this point I'm not sure what was weirder, Electra being pregnant with Nemo, or Marie marrying Sanson. I assume Sanson probably took care of her as well after the adventure, since without family, someone must have taken care of her.


Well said! Yeah, it's skeevy anytime a story hooks up one character with another character half their age, but it's extra skeevy in this particular case with hot-blooded womanizing Sanson and innocent little orphan Marie. The conclusions the epilogue sets up is basically the least likely outcomes for all of them in the context of the story we've just been told. According to the epilogue, after fighting for Grandis' attention almost everyday for years, Hanson gets married to a job, Sanson gets married to a child, and Grandis distances herself from both of them and literally takes up golf? Lol? How is a single detail of that even the slightest bit likely?

Shocked said:
Nadia: Secret of Blue Water, really wanted to be an adventure anime at first. Then it wanted to be a celebration of science and technology. Then it wanted to be a cautionary tale, combining discussions over the relationship between science, nature, and man. Then it was a romance anime. Then it was a science fiction action anime. Then it was a space battle anime with the world on the verge of being conquered, if not outright destroyed. I think this anime should have picked one identity - two max- and stuck with it. As is, it's somewhat disjointed, featuring a number of very interesting points, despite not all of them really connecting.


This is a great point, and something the show really left me feeling let down by in the end. The arc that had Jean playing hapless child prodigy inventor and Nadia playing runaway circus girl was pretty fun and compelling. The arc where they found themselves onboard the Nautilus skirmishing back and forth with the Garfish was also pretty great. The later stuff with the orbital satellites and energy barriers and space battles seemed pretty half-hearted and not very well planned out by comparison. I think that's a big part of why the ending fell so flat for me.
Modified by case649, Jul 15, 2019 9:53 PM
 
Jul 18, 2019 6:42 PM
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Wow I already thought the whole thing of Nemo finding Electra as a 14 year old and then raising her like a daughter made their relationship a bit iffy but then that gets blown the fuck out by the Sanson and Marie pairing. Sanson dude, I've loved you this whole show then you go and leave such a bitter taste in my mouth like that?

Seriously, I've loved those scenes of Sanson and Marie playing together and I don't know how I'm gonna feel about them on a rewatch when I know where it's going. I did notice they paired the two characters together a lot but at no point did I think that's where it was going.

Everything else about the finale was mostly fine.
 
Sep 9, 2019 2:34 PM

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Number of Gainax shows with bad endings: officially zero

It was a great adventure and a solid series overall, though not without problems. King (and, to a less extent, Marie) felt like unnecessary characters to me.
 
 
May 31, 2020 2:59 AM

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Well this series was certainly a blast to say the least :D I thoroughly enjoyed it apart from the Island and Africa arcs (save for a few moments in those arcs) glad I watched them at least once and they really were as bad as they have been described if I rewatch this series in the future (and I am sure I will one day) I will be skipping those arcs probably watch that fan super cut I have heard about. But, I did enjoy this finale and epilogue save for a few things that made me scratch my head but I will get to that! I wanted to think about this final episode a bit more before commenting so here are my thoughts.

I love how Nemo views humanity and how he believes their good qualities of excellence far outweigh their underbelly of insidious traits! I was a bit disappointed to learn Neo was under the control of Gargoyle thought it would be better if he actually betrayed Nemo I guess he could have still betrayed him in the beginning and then was rebuilt to obey Gargoyle possibly being entrapped in an automaton body realizing deep in his sub conscious what a horrible mistake he made while unable to do anything about it a quick scene to indicate that would have been nice. The part where he pulls himself forward in order to free Nadia and he uses the last of his human strength to do so before he is obliterated was very nicely done.

Electra getting electrocuted was both so hard and easy on the eyes; hard because she is suffering so much pain and easy because the animators still know what they are doing X3 Jean getting suddenly dropped and killed was such a jolt since it was done so quickly very effective in capturing the sudden shock and anguish of the moment!

I did not have a problem with the Nautilus blasting a beam into the room where our heroes were causing Neo to awaken but then them just power housing in and shooting Gargoyle with their beam was a bit of an odd choice to say the least in my opinion. I mean he could have just been incapacitated another way and then him getting vaporized by the light of the Blue Water could still be how he died. However, we get a pertinent piece of information apparently Gargoyle was human all along not Atlantian . . . whoa wait WHAT!?!? Also, apparently none of the Neo-Atlantis members are either . . . ? So were they all just part of an African tribe where Nemo and his family were and they picked up new members over the years. Did Gargoyle believe he was a descendant from Atlantis because he grew up with Nemo and was taught about the culture along side him? Was Nemo and his wife and children the last true blood descendants of Atlantis or were all the rest killed in the explosion of the tower? Hey Nemo! Did you every think telling Gargoyle he was human would have shattered his word view and gotten him to stop this conquest of the world XD well I guess he would have believed Nemo was lying to him. I guess growing up and being assimilated into the culture he believed he was a descendant. A bit abrupt to learn he is just a regular human moments before his death. I guess it was meant to be symbolic but I thought his demise would work better if he was an Atlantian but I suppose that is just a personal preference.

I did like how Nemo was willing to give up his life to save Jean it echos his philosophy on having trust in the younger generation to carve out a bright future and it is in his self sacrificing nature as he has put himself in danger to say Nadia, Jean and Marie many times before. Electra saying Nadia should save the one she loves first must have been especially hard due to her feelings towards Nemo and yet she still encouraged Nadia to do what she thought girls should do when they love someone and then Nadia looking to Grandis with her agreeing silently was a particularly well done scene. Nadia speaking with her Mother for the first and last time as she asks Jean's life to be saved for giving up any power she may have with the Blue Water was another fantastic scene. Electra and Nadia holding the men they love close was great to see as well!

And then Nemo even when he has been beaten down and his protection gone he does not hesitate to make the sacrifice to save everyone as a King, Captain, Father he knows this is what he must do. With his last words to the crew, Grandis, Electra and Nadia being especially heart wrenching. Rest easy Nemo your perseverance and sacrifices saved this world, protected the innocent and secured the future for those you inspired to make it a brilliant one may your soul join the stars and shine brightly over Earth!

Jean and Nadia embracing while he said they are both people of Earth and that transition to the starry sky was a great touch as well a great send off!

Now regarding the epilogue I almost wonder if this part of the story was hastily written or if it was written by Hideaki with the intention to prevent any extra episodes or installments to be created by the studio and producers. I mean think about it Hideaki saw what happened with the filler episodes and he feared they would try to strip mine this series in order to squeeze more cash out of its popularity so he wanted to end the story in a way that would be difficult to make that happened if it was handed off to a different team of creators. Hell even the film that follows the series takes place before the end of the epilogue and a lot of jumps in logic had to be taken in getting the characters together/giving them proper motivations. So it seemed like this epilogue was made and separated our characters giving them a finality to their stories where they would all settle down thus, preventing any reason for future adventures. That is just an idea I thought of upon reflecting on the epilogue but I would not be surprised if that was the reasoning behind it.

Now as for the content of the epilogue itself: now Jean and Nadia getting married was expected and I actually think it fits since Nadia found the secret behind her past, she made it to Africa and hell she even sacrificed the last fragment of her civilization in order to save Jean so of course he is the most important thing in the world to her. So her journey in everything she wanted to do was accomplished plus with all the adventures they went on they were enough for several lifetimes over they went to SPACE even. So out of all the epilogue stories this one to me at least is the most believable XD but I can certainly understand concerns about it!

Man on man though they did Grandis dirty in my opinion but I will come back to that in a bit. So Hanson became rich and apparently bought the Empire State building XD and he is searching for a wife my first thought was wouldn't he have taken Electra in and helped raise her child maybe trying to win her heart since in the series it was shown he was interested in her and plus I cannot imagine she could find many job prospects considering the life she lived before. Electra and Nemo getting together and having a child also made sense to me since they clearly had a more powerful relationship as a man and woman and not as a father and daughter so that was not too weird to find out. Also, it seems that Sanson and Marie got married which was rather jarring to say the least! I mean we had Sanson being overprotective of Grandis and concerned about her love life throughout the series he even peeped on her and grabbed her before the submarine dove to save her I thought it would be revealed they finally admitted how they felt about one another or grew closer over the years I think it would have been a much better fit and given Grandis a much better ending then she is living the single life with a bunch of admirers! Of course she has admirers Grandis is a beautiful knockout X3 and Sanson would be there to help fend off said admirers and they would slowly be honest with their feelings. Now with Marie I mean knowing that this is the early 20th century and ladies got married much younger at that time it makes it a bit less weird plus knowing Sanson as the guy he is in the series I know he was not planning this out or was underhanded about it. Plus seeing the film that follows the series leads credence to the idea I had where Marie was sent off to get a proper education and Sanson and her reconnected later in life so that makes it a bit less weird but yeah their pairing is still a bit odd XD might have been better for Marie to have married just some guy not involved in the series really driving home the fact she has this wonderful life and future thanks to Jean and Nadia. But, at least she sounds happy and Marie tossing that model plane and it transitions into the ending theme was a great way to close things out as well!

However, despite some of my head scratchers towards the finale and epilogue this series was a fantastic voyage that I was so glad I decided to check out :D it was quite a journey worth undertaking that I would highly recommend ^-^
Modified by Animated_Amateur, May 31, 2020 3:06 AM

 
Sep 17, 2020 7:24 PM

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I wasn't the hugest fan of this series to be honest. Ironically, the infamous 'island arc' was more like the 'Odyssey' type of adventure that I thought the entire series was going to be. In the end the main conflict put me to sleep, with the last few episodes being especially boring (how many time is a ship going to ram into something after the enemies' ultra weapon fails?), nonsensical (he fucking unplugged that dude lol) and lacking in any really strong emotion. Perhaps this was because the main characters were pushed aside so the 'old men' could stand around on the most contrived stage ever and prattle on until Nadia uses the Blue Water for like three seconds, which I guess makes sense considering how much this anime was trying to reach back into the past: aesthetically and with its jumbled narrative. And the epilogue felt like trolling. But anyway, at least now I understand that Eva is basically the anti-Nadia.

Also, I'm not really sure how the story would have worked if those 'extra' episodes were not included. Like, big showdown after nothing happens?

Though I am glad I am not the only one having problems with the ending and it's not just me being super cynical.
Modified by syncrogazer, Sep 18, 2020 7:25 AM
 
Dec 1, 2020 9:09 PM
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Animated_Amateur said:

Man on man though they did Grandis dirty in my opinion... So Hanson became rich and apparently bought the Empire State building XD and he is searching for a wife my first thought was wouldn't he have taken Electra in and helped raise her child maybe trying to win her heart since in the series it was shown he was interested in her ... it seems that Sanson and Marie got married which was rather jarring to say the least! I mean we had Sanson being overprotective of Grandis and concerned about her love life throughout the series he even peeped on her and grabbed her before the submarine dove to save her I thought it would be revealed they finally admitted how they felt about one another or grew closer over the years I think it would have been a much better fit and given Grandis a much better ending then she is living the single life with a bunch of admirers! Of course she has admirers Grandis is a beautiful knockout X3 and Sanson would be there to help fend off said admirers and they would slowly be honest with their feelings.


Omg this. You literally wrote a much better ending for the Grandis crew (Hanson, Sanson and Grandis) than the writers did XD. It actually makes sense.
Yeah, u can pretty much tell that the writers really didn't like Grandis XD with how her story wrapped up imo.
I thought Sanson liked Grandis because of his protective behavior in the show so it would've made more sense for them to be together in the end. And it would've been nice to see Hanson helping out Electra (they don't even need to get together), so that we could see what her kid would looked like, too. It would make sense, too, cuz Hanson literally liked her throughout the series
The only reason I think the writers had Marie and Sanson get together is because it wouldn't be as satisfying to see Marie marry some stranger cuz we don't know that person. And they prolly couldn't think of any post-story thing for Sanson.
It was a nice moment in Episode 12 when Grandis tells Nadia about how Sanson and Hanson stayed with her after she lost everything. So it would've nice to see them stick together, since they were together the whole series.
And they were building up the little family relationship with Jean, Nadia and Marie, so it would've been more wholesome to see that in the epilogue.

I think I liked the show overall, it was pretty fun. Marie/Sanson still made me uncomfortable, doesn't matter if it was 'historically accurate' LOL. Episode 13 and 14 really made me think they had a father/daughter relationship, but ig not >_>
 
Jan 31, 2:17 PM

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I thought one thing that could have been explored more was Jean's realisation that science can be misappropriated by bad actors. This is hinted at when he first learns about the Nautilus' engine, and recurrs occasionally, but I think it was this final episode where he sees Nadia's brother's robotic body and mutters something like "science did that?", but then this goes nowhere. It's a throwaway line. This could have been a really compelling arc - earlier in the series when the engine room is sealed off and some of the crew perish, I thought that this would function to demonstrate to Jean that new dangers arise with new advances in science which he would then have to grapple with (i.e. decide whether it's worth the sacrifice), and having accepted this, that he would later have to deal with a similar conflict when the realisation properly dawned on him that science can be used maliciously (maybe he could have been be pitted against a situation where he would have to put to use his earlier lesson of making a sacrifice to prevent a worse outcome, such as stopping a malicious actor). Sadly, this seemed largely unfulfilled, and that this theme only recurred in passing in the very last episode made it feel like an afterthought - exploring this could have been a much better use of time than that whole silly island thing.

I did like this series quite a lot overall, but I do lament the 10 episodes or so of largely wasted time, and when the story finally picks back up in the last few episodes, it actually feels like we've missed an entire chunk of the series. Bit of a shame, because there's plenty of material that if used more efficiently could have really elevated the whole thing from good to great.
 
 
Feb 5, 10:10 AM

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Well, that was a ride, the show came back to being watchable by last few episodes. My eyes did become watery during the Neo freeing Nadia, Jean's fall and Nemo's death.

So I had suspected Gargoyle of being a non-Atlantean because he needed the royal family members to control the Blue Water, if he was Atlantean he'd be able to do it himself.

I expected Nadia to say something along the lines of "If humans are meant to serve Atlanteans then why are you ordering me around?". So Neo only barely survived Nemo blowing up the Tower of Babel in Tartessos and Gargoyle, gave him a cybernetic body.

Gargoyle became a pillar of salt! Gargoyle once mentioned Sodom and Gomorrah to Nadia, so I guess in the world of Nadia, the Biblical story is based on an incident where a Blue Water destroyed non-Atlanteans. He was one of the humans he despised so much all along.

So during the Island/Africa arc. Nemo impregnated Electra? So Nadia will be getting a half-sibling.

I can see the relationship going one way (Marie being naïve and attracted to the strongest of the group, maybe in a similar situation between Electra and Nemo), but I was certain Samson had his mind on Grandis. There was only two memorable events between him and Marie; that time both her and Nadia caught a disease and Samson was only worried about her. The other time was when she got lost with king when the Nautilus stopped on an island, there wasn't any indication of romance....
Modified by Fortress_Maximus, Feb 5, 1:05 PM
 
May 10, 11:08 PM
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Actually, I disagree with case649's notion. There were plenty of moments during the first 22 episodes where it was obvious that Nadia was growing fond of Jean. Yes, there were moments where she could be bitchy, but she DID care about him. Episodes 15, 16, 17, 1-8, 31, and 35-39 all prove that. There WAS chemistry between her and Jean in the first half of the show, and to me it was the kind where we see her really opening up to him, despite the occasional rage. The only reason their relationship goes downhill is in the filler arcs, which were never supposed to be in the show to begin with. Take them out and their relationship works much better overall.

One of the biggest takeaways of Nadia for me was the importance of how consistent loyalty, kindness, and compassion can ultimately soften a troubled person's heart, and that's the point of Nadia's relationship with Jean. She starts off as an angry, moody, deeply depressed, suspicious character with a tragic past. It takes Jean's persistent loyalty and caring nature to change her. This kind of change is gradual, but that's what makes them realistic and relatable. By showing scenes where Jean occasionally looks depressed (as in episode 16 and 17) and Nadia being the one to cheer him up for a change shows that his love IS transforming her. She doesn't know how to admit it because no one has ever loved her before. That is why she ultimately falls for him: because of who he is. Again, the relationship works best when you skip the island/Africa episodes -- they are the culprits which mess all that development up.
Modified by JTurner, May 11, 12:18 AM
 
Aug 1, 7:11 AM

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Well, this finale was nothing short of an absolute garbage fire. From Neo overcoming his brainwashing and being unplugged with sheer willpower to save Nadia from her own brainwashing (fuck off with that bullshit), to Nadia using the Blue Water to save Jean (big deus ex machina, given it was never indicated the Blue Water was alive, let alone that it had that kind of power), and then to every second of that hideous mess called an epilogue: people rag on Usagi Drop for what happened there, but this show did the same thing a good 20 years before with Marie and Sanson (seriously, what in the actual fuck were the writers thinking?); Jean and Nadia have never had much in the way of real chemistry at all, and neither have really developed as characters from the start despite the show's best attempts (Nadia is, at the end of the day, the same whiny brat she's always been, while Jean is still the fun but ultimately naive inventor he started out as) so them getting together as a couple comes across so hollow and undeserved (and are we seriously meant to believe the strong-willed Nadia just settled to become a housewife? yeah, no chance of that).

The villains of this show were nothing more than caricatures throughout, espousing pretentious, nihilistic philosophy to try and sound intimidating but ultimately lacking depth and nuance to make them interesting, so spending most of this final arc with them and Nemo exchanging philosophical battles, rather than giving the main characters Nadia and Jean anything to do whatsoever was thoroughly tedious. At the end of the day, Grandis, Hanson and Sanson were the most fun characters in this show, but they were criminally underused as the stakes rose and the show lost me more and more; the show was much more enjoyable when it was just Nadia and Jean being chased by Grandis and co in the Team Rocket role.

On the subject of characters, I despised Nadia to the point that she's probably one of my least favourite protagonists in all of fiction. All she does is whine and rage at others for not ascribing to her ridiculous black-and-white view of the world, and it feels like the show spends way, way more time on that than it does on highlighting any positive traits she may have had (did she have any?).

Also, even ignoring the wild inconsistencies of the filler episodes, it feels like the writing threw out a lot of different ideas here and there, but never did much of anything with most of them as it struggled to decide what kind of message it wanted to send. Then there were just blatant continuity errors all over the place to top it all off.

In conclusion, with my dislike of Evangelion and now this, I can safely conclude that I do not like Hideaki Anno's writing, even if I can recognise on some level why people do.

Frankly, 5/10 feels somewhat generous after all of that venting, but this show did have some real good moments in places, just not enough of them.
 
Aug 21, 5:52 AM

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This show turned out nothing like I expected. I thought I was going to be watching a somewhat realistic slice of life/comedy adventure series and I was really enjoying it in the beginning. Then it turned into a badly animated and overly silly Loony Tunes show, which then became spaceships and humans being created by aliens, ugh. It became a chore just to get through it, what happened?

DekuHero said:
Seriously, I've loved those scenes of Sanson and Marie playing together and I don't know how I'm gonna feel about them on a rewatch when I know where it's going. I did notice they paired the two characters together a lot but at no point did I think that's where it was going.


Exactly, those earlier scenes of them hanging out together that felt so wholesome and cute are just super creepy now. I doubt I'll ever be rewatching it anyway, all in all it just wasn't a very good show in my opinion.
 
Aug 28, 10:32 AM
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This show cannot be rated.
The episodes vary so drastically.. between Tripler A 110% pure gold to the worst garbage ever put on paper.
Given the right money and creative freedom this couldve been as great as the whole Evangelion saga.. however.. without Nadia and the process it represents there would be no Evangelion Saga..

we should appreciate all the good it has brought and neglect the greedy acts that caused this show to be bad sometimes.

I'm glad I watched it and I'm glad I watched it again.
And I'm sad I watched the island episodes and I'm sorry they exist.
But thats life and as Evangelion thought us accepting what happened and the current circumstances is what makes a brighter future possible .
 
Sep 10, 11:11 PM
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Best anime ending ever. Way better than Eva's TV ending. Still scratching my head why some people say the latter ending is a goat.

A lot of contrast from the first episode;
- Ep1 - Grandis declares she won't give up in a comic way; Ep39 - crying quietly when she realizes Nemo is about to give up his life/Elektra pregnated - very serious scene.
- Ep1 - Grandis fakes being Nadia's guardian; Ep39 - she is told to be the guardian of Nadia and the other kids.
- Ep1 - Sanson grabs Nadia against her will - very comical; Ep39 - Sanson holds badly injured Nemo - very serious scene.
- Ep1 - Jean - "you only live once"; Ep39 - he dies but lives again
- Ep1 - Jean sacrifices his chance to win a flying tournament to save Nadia; Ep39 - Nadia sacrifices her chance to be the ruler of the Atlantis to save Jean (and to live a normal life as her wife and housewife).
- The music at the end of both episodes is the same.

 
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