mitch3315 said: Cupquake said: It depends on their character. If they're likeable I think they're awesome. If I don't like them, then I get really pissed at how op they are Zalis said: mitch3315 said: Except for Air, Abenobashi, Azumanga Daioh, Desert Punk, Death Note, Happiness, Elfen Lied, Code Geass, Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Slayers, Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor Sakura, Dokuro-chan, Akira, Kanon, FLCL, Fruits Basket, Hellsing, FMA, Higurashi, Voices of a Distant Star, various Gundam series, FMP, Evangelion, Shana, Haruhi Suzumiya, YYH, Wolf's Rain, and a number of others, apparently.Sung-Hwan said: Also, while it's a long forgotten show that most MAL users probably don't really know of unless they're old school, does anyone remember Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star? Sorry, I don't do pre-2007. I think he was joking... Yeah. It was a pretty bad one, but a joke none the less. Zalis's post made me laugh, and it wouldn't have been possible without your post. So, in an indirect way, this was a good joke. |
| Because they can only relate to angsty wimpy teenagers. |
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LoneWolfRain said: Yeah, kinda like Simon from TTGL, right? *rolls eyes*Characters that are too powerful tend to be one-dimensional. If only people could actually DEFINE "mary-sue" or "gary-stu" so that either weren't as completely meaningless an insult as "lol that's gay". Watch as five people give five different definitions, proving my point in the process, in 3... 2... 1... |
| Never forget, that if you post a topic, you're not allowed to post in it yourself, by order of MAL administration. |
| I took SAO out of the initial post, so the thread can focus more on dislike towards strong male protagonists in anime who I think we need more of. |
| Goku solos. |
Dubs>subs. Breaking Bad>Anime Comic books>manga 99% of Anime is Garbage |
| what？ |
| My Reviews and Rants: http://bunny1ov3r.wordpress.com/ 痛就是爱 |
LoneWolfRain said: He was though.UnculturedWhitey said: I said they "tend to", not always.LoneWolfRain said: Yeah, kinda like Simon from TTGL, right? *rolls eyes*Characters that are too powerful tend to be one-dimensional. |
| If you generalize, you're wrong. |
LoneWolfRain said: Characters that are too powerful tend to be one-dimensional. The main way they grow throughout the story is through the powers they acquire, which overshadows their psychological characterizaion. Kirito is a good example of that. Same with characters like Luffy, Goku, etc. Lol @ Goku.. Watch the original series to the end of the Namek Saga.. "Character" not his personality grew.. It wasn't subtle it was in your face blatant |
| And besides the "realistic=better" statement is....not accurate |
| I dislike how the authors go out of their ways to show how superior their favored hero is to anyone else around them absolutely. Shonen protagonists such as Naruto and Luffy, for example would never befriend any villain unless it's a clear case they are the stronger by beating them or beating someone who beat them, or by another demonstration, as for their friends, they show that by giving them lackeys to fight or again beat someone who beat them. (only exception of course are elder/mentor and deal-with-later types where the main point is to surpass them eventually and continue being awesome and crap. (the one I felt was different was probably Ichigo losing to Zaraki, kind of.) It makes it damn predictable. Everything feels like a glorification of them. No matter how the story deviates it always comes back to that. I like characters like Eren Jaegar, they are strong, but there are many characters who are easily stronger, and they don't try to force it. His own "strength" feels more like a plot device than a "reason no.1 why he could beat them all". |
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judals said: I like characters like Eren Jaegar, they are strong, but there are many characters who are easily stronger, and they don't try to force it. His own "strength" feels more like a plot device than a "reason no.1 why he could beat them all". Eren Jaeger was ok until the author decided to pull out of his ass the turn into a titan power. I hate lame ass-pull power ups like that. Thus I don't really see him as particularly being a strong male protagonist. This is just my personal opinion however. |
AzlanMar 13, 2014 2:26 PM
stealthdasher said: judals said: I like characters like Eren Jaegar, they are strong, but there are many characters who are easily stronger, and they don't try to force it. His own "strength" feels more like a plot device than a "reason no.1 why he could beat them all". Eren Jaeger was ok until the author decided to pull out of his ass the turn into a titan power. I hate lame ass-pull power ups like that. Well, even with that new power of his he got his ass handed to him most of the time. And if you rewatch closely it wasn't that much of an asspull. And yeah, spoiler... |
SapewlothMar 13, 2014 2:33 PM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
| Spoiler... I thought that was a very pleasant surprise, we still don't know the explanation, so it's up to that to determine if it was just out of thin air or well-done. But as far as bringing it out without any precedent, it felt like a much needed element that was lacking (and almost overdue) rather than a cheap trick to get out of the situation, but that's me. My reasoning is that, based on the execution of the manga which I loved, the show could have totally done without Eren, as with Mikasa and Armin, and totally convinced me this is how it'd go, and even when SHE almost died I was convinced they were building up for Armin to be the main protagonist with a bait n switch, so using that form was more of a choice than being trapped in a corner. |
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Tachii said: he didn't value teamwork at all (at least for a good chunk of the show), which is a flaw. There are strong protagonists that value their own strength but also of others, giving them more likeability. That's because he had trust issues. He was a introvert who kept to himself and didn't open to people in real life, including his own family. You can see this clearly when he becomes somewhat a friend of Kline but then feels uncomfortable and little sad when he sees that Klein has his own friends and group of players, thus he decided it's better to just be alone. Then later he starts to trust people = Asuna. |
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| Well yeah, and we need more of that basement content to understand it fully. It's pretty clear the titans are somewhat |
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| Because they are a bunch of twitter posting hipsters. |
| What the hell kind of alternate universe do you live in? |
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judals said: Well yeah, and we need more of that basement content to understand it fully. It's pretty clear the titans are somewhat Actually about the basement thing (chapter 55 spoiler) |
SapewlothMar 13, 2014 2:52 PM
| Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Sapewloth said: judals said: Well yeah, and we need more of that basement content to understand it fully. It's pretty clear the titans are somewhat Actually about the basement thing I read up to |
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judals said: Sapewloth said: judals said: Well yeah, and we need more of that basement content to understand it fully. It's pretty clear the titans are somewhat Actually about the basement thing I read up to Don't read it if you aren't up to date, that spoiler covers the latest chapter. |
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skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. This. In other words, it's like a expert player beating up beginners at any game you might think about: Isn't appealing to the viewers and irritating to watch. |
stealthdasher said: judals said: I like characters like Eren Jaegar, they are strong, but there are many characters who are easily stronger, and they don't try to force it. His own "strength" feels more like a plot device than a "reason no.1 why he could beat them all". Eren Jaeger was ok until the author decided to pull out of his ass the turn into a titan power. I hate lame ass-pull power ups like that. Thus I don't really see him as particularly being a strong male protagonist. This is just my personal opinion however. While I agree that he is probably one of the weakest characters in the show, It also isn't quite an asspull because it didn't come completely out of nowhere, and wasn't due to the writer putting himself into a corner with no way out; the story doesn't properly start until after the reveal, as it's the catalyst that drives pretty much all subsequent events. IamOniiChan said: skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. This. In other words, it's like a expert player beating up beginners at any game you might think about: Isn't appealing to the viewers and irritating to watch. What's really unnapealing about Kirito is that he literally breaks the game. He does things which simply shouldn't be possible in the finale of both arcs. The universe bends over backwards and breaks its own rules to accommodate his character. And that's pretty much the definition of Gary Stu. |
fst said: It also isn't quite an asspull because it didn't come completely out of nowhere, and wasn't due to the writer putting himself into a corner with no way out; the story doesn't properly start until after the reveal, as it's the catalyst that drives pretty much all subsequent events. It's still an asspull. You are talking about Deus ex Machina here. An asspull in a unwinnable situation to resolve something when the writer drove himself into a corner is a DEM. |
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Ratohnhaketon said: Whoa hey now, Izayoi was a damn breath of fresh air who got shit done and avoided being a gary stu. It's not his fault he had no faults.As much as people bash Kirito, I think Izayoi from Mondaiji-tachi was leagues worse. Overpowered characters are just flat out lazy and should not be used as counterweights against sissy beta MCs. The best characters are the ones that have flaws but can get shit done. |
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IamOniiChan said: skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. This. In other words, it's like a expert player beating up beginners at any game you might think about: Isn't appealing to the viewers and irritating to watch. +1. The whole concept is flawed because beta testers aren't supposed to see enough of the game to have a big advantage; that's one of the fundamental rules of beta testing. The author has obviously never played any legit MMOs before. Also, Kirito may just be the most bland, wish fulfilling, overpowered MCs I've seen in a long time. Ruined any potential SAO had for me, honestly. |
| My YouTube channel, where I do unboxings and show off my anime collection, merchandise, and other swag: https://www.youtube.com/user/TCTriangle |
TCTriangle said: IamOniiChan said: skudoops said: It depends on the level of strength, no one really wants to see a dude power through enemies like it was nothing, not to mention the amount of asspulls on top of it. Let me give you an example.. People hate Kirito but like Guts, depending on your perspective they are the same type of character. The difference is guts doesn't plow through powerful enemies like kirito does, he goes through the lesser enemies easily though. This. In other words, it's like a expert player beating up beginners at any game you might think about: Isn't appealing to the viewers and irritating to watch. +1. The whole concept is flawed because beta testers aren't supposed to see enough of the game to have a big advantage; that's one of the fundamental rules of beta testing. The author has obviously never played any legit MMOs before. Also, Kirito may just be the most bland, wish fulfilling, overpowered MCs I've seen in a long time. Ruined any potential SAO had for me, honestly. Kirito is a terrible character, hence why I dropped the show |
| Because they want to relate to the MC :P |
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| It's not necessarily about just being strong. It is about being strong without decent explanation and being so strong that they face no true diversity or no diversity faced is challenging enough to greatly harm them thus breaking any tension. It is also a problem when just being a strong person overtakes any kind of real personality or background. |
| I love strong male protagonists, but they are exceptionally rare. At least those with strength of character. Most of your "powerful" male protagonists are stupid meatheads who need the supporting cast to point them in the right direction. |
AlexTheRiot said: Ratohnhaketon said: Whoa hey now, Izayoi was a damn breath of fresh air who got shit done and avoided being a gary stu. It's not his fault he had no faults.As much as people bash Kirito, I think Izayoi from Mondaiji-tachi was leagues worse. Overpowered characters are just flat out lazy and should not be used as counterweights against sissy beta MCs. The best characters are the ones that have flaws but can get shit done. They also do state his source of OP-ness (unclear though), unlike Kirito, so it's much more believable IMO. |
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stealthdasher said: ??? Everything in your Completed is like a slice of life harem so I wonder whyTachii said: JabonHR said: Unless one only watches forgettable harem series.stealthdasher said: bloodgods said: stealthdasher said: Strong male protagonists can get boring... because a huge portion of anime have them.bloodgods said: Strong male protagonists can get boring... because a huge portion of anime have them. What? Nowadays, they're about as rare as snow leopards. Kirito - SAO Guts - Berserk Hei - Darker than Black Spike Speigel - Cowboy Bebop Mugen & Jin - Samurai Champloo Most if not all shonen protagonists (Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo, Goku, etc.) Alucard - Hellsing Himura Kenshin - Rurouni Kenshin The list goes on. I'd hardly call them rare. Most of the characters you just listed are from older anime. E.g. Berserk, Samurai Shamploo, Kenshin, Hellsing. Also let's not count mainstream shounen anime, all the characters of those shows usually become stronger as the shows progress. For the past few years I've seen few strong male protagonists. |
DGemu said: AlexTheRiot said: Ratohnhaketon said: Whoa hey now, Izayoi was a damn breath of fresh air who got shit done and avoided being a gary stu. It's not his fault he had no faults.As much as people bash Kirito, I think Izayoi from Mondaiji-tachi was leagues worse. Overpowered characters are just flat out lazy and should not be used as counterweights against sissy beta MCs. The best characters are the ones that have flaws but can get shit done. They also do state his source of OP-ness (unclear though), unlike Kirito, so it's much more believable IMO. I liked Izayoi's personality and confidence. Hell I even liked that he was strong. But strong characters without opposition are wasted. It was pretty much just - Enemy: Behold! My ultimate attack consists of all of the energy of heaven and the universe, you're no match! Izayoi: HAHAHA NOT ENOUGH DUMBASS! -punches it all away with bare hand- |
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Ratohnhaketon said: As much as people bash Kirito, I think Izayoi from Mondaiji-tachi was leagues worse. Overpowered characters are just flat out lazy and should not be used as counterweights against sissy beta MCs. The best characters are the ones that have flaws but can get shit done. He get's a free pass because, like Gilgamesh, he rarely goes all out and lets shit play out for the fun of it. tsudecimo said: fst said: It also isn't quite an asspull because it didn't come completely out of nowhere, and wasn't due to the writer putting himself into a corner with no way out; the story doesn't properly start until after the reveal, as it's the catalyst that drives pretty much all subsequent events. It's still an asspull. You are talking about Deus ex Machina here. An asspull in a unwinnable situation to resolve something when the writer drove himself into a corner is a DEM. Reviewing the definition of DEM, I'm more inclined to agree with you now. Given the way the story is planned, I feel like the author didn't kill Eren off and then was like "O shit, I need him alive, how do I get out of this", but rather, "I have to reveal that he's a titan shifter, what's the most dramatic way of doing this?". But regardless, it's bad writing because it's rather contrived and more importantly, it makes the audience feel cheated. |
| They don't... but the ones that dislike them have more voice |
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| Just don't like the dudes that are magically granted powers they don't deserve. Also don't like the loud headstrong and dumb shounen protagonists that get rather powerful. I do like strong dudes that earned their skills and don't act like chimpanzees. Would love more strong males in general though. Tired of shitty harem protag builds and Naruto-act-alikes. |
| I see Mahouka's MC to be pretty similar to Kirito. Is this where this is going? |
| People just like throwing around terms they don't know to act smart. I'm pretty sure many people like strong protagonists, especially if they complain about how pathetic they think their harem counterparts are. |
| I'm wondering exactly who this thread is meant to be directed at. Tatsuya is a gary stu, but hell, that doesn't make him a bad character. I can't comprehend why you blatantly ignore anything resembling an opinion of refined taste and proceed to blow everything off as "hate". You're free to like whatever character you want, but Gary Stu is an accurate characterization of many a male character these days. |
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Heredity said: i like how there's a thread about not liking wimpy male leads occurring simultaneously with this one. Waiting for a "Why don't people like male protagonists?" thread to pop up. |
| Woah Woah woah, now hold on a minute. When have people hated strong male protagonists? I HATE weak male protagonists. Especially those ones that cry...and cry....and cry...and cry. You know what I mean? I just finished Baccano! and Jacuzzi really pissed me off during the end. Now, Claymore is another good example (He might not be the protagonist but whatever). That show would have been Perfect! if not for the whiney guy. TL;DR I'm just sayin', people hate whiney protagonists more than they hate strong ones. The strong ones are easier to watch |
| Someday soon the novelty of your personality will wear off and people will see you for the bore that you really are |
fst said: Reviewing the definition of DEM, I'm more inclined to agree with you now. Given the way the story is planned, I feel like the author didn't kill Eren off and then was like "O shit, I need him alive, how do I get out of this", but rather, "I have to reveal that he's a titan shifter, what's the most dramatic way of doing this?". But regardless, it's bad writing because it's rather contrived and more importantly, it makes the audience feel cheated. If that transformation is a power-up then so are the Rubber fruit, Clone jutsu, Shinigami powers... and every other power introduced/established at the beginning of a show. The author just decided to let it take more time and introduce it in a much better way than he would the generic 1st-episode way. |
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Heredity said: i like how there's a thread about not liking wimpy male leads occurring simultaneously with this one. Haha, yeah it's pretty amusing. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
JetNZ said: Because John Cena Your attitude needs to adjusted.. |
Kagami_Hiiragi said: Idc if you think its weird, I have a life and friends and an income of money. |
| Negative experiences have more impact than positive experiences. If you have a whole series of positive feedback and 1 negative one then you'll remember the negative feedback. So the hate towards a particular subject may seem more severe than it actually is. Either way it's just an opinion. With anything you can possibly think off there will always be people who like it, and people who dislike it. |
| For those who seek perfection, there can be no rest on this side of the grave. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. |
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