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| THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- I just had a thought during this episode. How awesome would it be if the series ended by Anthy fighting Utena to get power over herself? I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens. When I first watched this series, I really liked Mikage. I do not understand why. The little hand pointed at two guys holding hands. I'm glad. I can't believe he made out with her. Bascially he uses heartbreak to control people. That quote was awesome at the end. "For a plant to bear fruit, it's flowers have to die." |
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| Oooh, Akio, you manwhore I liked the hand pointing to the guys holding hands <3 |
| 頭脳は子供、見た目は大人！ ƪ(˘⌣˘)ʃ |
| Just when I thought the series was slipping this episode comes around. Akio is an interesting character and he may in fact be the End of the World..but I'm still curious about his talks with the prince and so on. There has just been clues here and there but I can't say for sure what could be going on. What WAS very interesting was seeing the aged woman from the past and her conversation with Akio. It seems people really don't age when the are at the academy. |
| "Yes, I have been deprived of emotion. But not completely. Whoever did it, botched the job." - Geralt of Rivia |
| interesting... |
| Ok. I'm a bit more confused than before. So Akio is the one manipulating everyone. And why did the young Himemiya burn down the academy? |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| This was very welcome after the past few episodes. Just fascinating to get a look into the past like that. The hand-pointing got a little annoying after a while though (the two holding hands, haha) I quite like Mikage so far, but who knows. And yup, Akio's as scheming as ever. |
 Znips: When Shay is born she just crawls back in the womb to shitpost for another year |
| I think Akio has already manipulated Utena, it seems he may be Utena's "prince" (anyone who wears the ring makes a contract with him). I wonder why Mikage all the sudden wanted eternity after seeing Akio making out with that woman (forgot her name), I have a few ideas as to why, but nothing really concrete. A ton of symbolism in this episode and I will probably come back to this episode after finishing the series to give it a second look. |
| So, why does the little brother look nothing like his sister? Why does he have a red dot on his forehead - is that going to be a distinguishing mark for all of the non-white people in this show? And it's funny how the little brother didn't mind dying - how he even to Mikage and his sister that he appreciates what they're doing but that they're wasting their times - and yet suddenly he decides to set fire to the building to find eternity. It seems out of character from what we saw earlier. Except... the little brother is dead? His aged sister went to visit the grave? Hmm... |
| This episode started out great, but then I got very confused lol nevertheless it was an interesting episode. |
Marzan said: Ok. I'm a bit more confused than before. So Akio is the one manipulating everyone. And why did the young Himemiya burn down the academy? Oh yeah I just noticed the dot on the kid. I thought the little brother burned it down. Wait didn't this happen 100 years ago...? |
| Even when I was in crowd, I was always alone |
| Well, that was a different and interesting episode; however, even as information is being revealed about what is going on at the academy things still remain as mysterious as ever. For example, it seems quite likely that Akio is the End of the World but that really doesn't clear much up in terms of his motivations. Also, was there any clear indication on how much time had passed since the fire? |
| Can't believe I forgot about this series for so long! It's nice to get back to it, even if this episode was a little confusing. |
| A welcomed change of pace. Glad that episode happened. A little confusing, but I have a couple of theories in what's going on. Hopefully they continue with this course of plot and don't get side-tracked with another flushing out of a side character to fight Utena. |
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| Great episode! I started to watch this series starting with the first 10 episodes in the first couple days. The last 5 or so, I noticed I was getting distracted with other things and didn't have as much drive to watch it. Hopefully this is a good pick-me-up that throws it into the next arc, which I heard was much better. I think what I found the most interesting was the dialog at the end concerning the school being a kind of structure that keeps eternity a reality... or of the school's reality, anyway. I know it was mentioned before, but this is obviously an important theme. |
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EOTW said: I think Akio has already manipulated Utena, it seems he may be Utena's "prince" (anyone who wears the ring makes a contract with him). Mind blown. I guessed pretty early on Akio was bad news ever since it first showed him next to the figure of Utena's prince a number of episodes back. But wow. Didn't even consider that Utena may have somehow gotten into a contract. What about the student council then? In general this has been by far my favourite episode. I really like Mikage's character. Hope he doesn't get written off next episode (he probably will). The show is finally starting to give me Mawaru Penguindrum vibes as things get more complicated |
| How did they stay young? And I'm guessing 20-30 years since the fire incident. |
IloveDubs said: I really didn't get half of the symbolism the blinking hand was pointing at. What was the framed leaf supposed to represent, same goes for the cat's and the stained teacups. don't worry, me neither. I'm not even sure if there was really any DEEP meaning behind it. guess not.. finally a better episode! but I have a feeling I've seen this before... now I'm confused myself. Either way, interesting that noone seems to age at the academy (?) |
| Holy shit finally something DIFFERENT happened. I had this series on-hold for so long because the previous 8 or so episode was the same damn thing recycled.. This episode stopped me from dropping the series. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| Interesting yet confusing episode. I couldn't take the scene seriously with the Chu-Chu balloon. XD |
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| This episode pretty much confirmed that people don't age in Ohtori Academy. What the hell kind of place is it, lol We also learn that Mikage is Nemero and that he was being manipulated to participate in some sort of research project; Akio might be the mastermind behind everything; and Mamiya either faked his death or is not alive at all. Plus a bunch of other things that I probably missed. Those blinking pointing hands were... interesting. Judging by some of the things they were obnoxiously pointing at, like the cats increasing in number and the butterfly on the wall (metamorphosis), they could be metaphors for the concept of time and how messed up it is in Ohtori Academy. I'm not sure why the lipstick on the cup or the two guys holding hands were pointed out though. |
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| ok sooo this anime is is jsut different I'm going to leave it at that |
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| The pointing hand was very distracting. 4/5 |
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| I didn't really get the pointing hands tbh. |
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| The butterfly and the leaf the hand was pointing to can be seen in the elevator on the present time. I just don't know what they mean. And much less what was so important about the guys holding hands and the lipstick on the cup. |
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| i just feel like i'm being f*cked with |
| see you, space cowperson . . . |
| No one gets the lipstick on the cup? xD It was first shown after the lady drank from it and it reappears again in his office. ;) I guess he took it and kept it? It shows his love for her. Not sure about the two guys holding hands...hmm. |
MistyBlueMay 27, 2017 12:18 AM
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| So the people at the school literally aren't aging, or at least not those connected to the Power of Dios. Good backstory episode.. |
| Slower episode...but that reveal at the end was freaky. People don't age at this school? :o I have no idea what the hell the blinking hands were about. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| I think he didn't die, he died for his sister. I mean we have seen him talking to Nemura before right? So Akio it's The End of the World? I think we are somehow getting closer to some primal form of truth but i still can't find 'that' thing that makes this series apparently incredible. Don't get me wrong it has been quite interesting but i was expecting for some type of breaking revolutionary message or smth. |
 SEIZON SENRYAKU: Hungry 100% of the time.Vzla-IT |
| B A C K S T O R Y A N D E X P O S I T I O N Also, that girl thinks Mamiya is dead... There's something fishy going on but I can't put my hand on it... And the whole thing with the rings and some kind of contract, really suspicious. |
| Around the gif~ "It's a big mistake to think you're the only one who can turn into a car" - Shiori Takatsuki |
| I died at the train crossing in the background of the student council. It's the most absurd backdrop yet. I'm not even sure how to describe what's going on visually in this show; chu-chu inflating into a balloon (magical realism?), the train crossing (surreal?), the shadow girl(s?) that now Utena and others are aware of, and interact with (meta?); same thing with the pointing hand. |
| Whoa, that was both intriguing, and legitimately creepy, easily the best episode in a while! |
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| That was a very interesting episode. The pointing hands we see here and there show the broken concept of time: - The cats reproduce in a matter of seconds - The sand clock doesn't measure time correctly, causing Tokiko to make tea which is too strong - The sand clock is shown in 2 cuts, the first one being upside down - it's then revealed that we see a reflection. It probably means that the time somehow flows backward as well as forward, resulting in it not moving at all. I also noticed that the sand clock which is turned upside down resembles the castle in the air at the arena. I wonder if that means anything or if I'm overanalyzing it. - "The snow won't disappear soon, right, professor?", "The snow in the greenhouse never melts, right?" - it clearly indicates that time inside the academy (or inside the greenhouse, which seems to be very symbolic and resembles a bird cage) does not work the way we believe it normally should. There're also lots of very interesting details about the characters. Mikage (a.k.a professor Nemuro) is wearing black gloves and glasses, which underline his robotic nature and disconnection from the world. It's especially true for the glasses, because they serve as a barrier between the world and the person's eyes, which are believed to represent the soul. Nemuro is a closed person. We get more commentary on the concept of eternity, which is crucial for the show. Tomiko is trying to dry the roses in a desperate attempt to preserve them for a longer period of time, which shows how much she desires eternity (likely because her brother seems to be gravely ill). But why is her brother black? He doesn't look like his sister at all. It's a very interesting detail, which might be relevant later. As of now, Mamiya is a lot like Himemiya, there are a lot of parallels between these two characters, including their appearance (are they connected?) and the scenes in the greenhouse among the roses. I love how Utena tells Anthy that she doesn't have to follow the orders. It's obvious how Utena is trying to "break the contract", while Anthy is bounded by it. Overall, I absolutely loved this episode. Lots of exciting details, past events, touching scenes and stunning music which sends shivers down my spine. This episode even made me like Mikage a lot. I think he'll turn out to be a tragic character (if he isn't already). ---------------- @Anzes @HappyMN UPD: Another interesting detail about pointing fingers: https://twitter.com/faunagrotesque/status/1113218052013920256 Looks like an homage to Shuji Terayama, whom Ikuhara likes a lot and is inspired by (he talked about him in various interviews). |
St0rmbladeApr 6, 2020 9:20 AM
| About hand-pointing. That's a rather odd visual detail. Maybe it was done to show Mikage's robotic way of analyzing things? |
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St0rmblade said: That was a very interesting episode. The pointing hands we see here and there show the broken concept of time: - The cats reproduce in a matter os seconds - The sand clock doesn't measure time correctly, causing Tokiko to make tea which is too strong - The sand clock is shown in 2 cuts, the first one being upside down - it's then revealed that we see a reflection. It probably means that the time somehow flows backward as well as forward, resulting in it not moving at all. I also noticed that the sand clock which is turned upside down resembles the castle in the air at the arena. I wonder if that means anything or if I'm overanalyzing it. - "The snow won't disappear soon, right, professor?", "The snow in the greenhouse never melts, right?" - it clearly indicates that time inside the academy (or inside the greenhouse, which seems to be very symbolic and resembles a bird cage) does not work the way we believe it normally should. There're also lots of very interesting details about the characters. Mikage (a.k.a professor Nemuro) is wearing black gloves and glasses, which underline his robotic nature and disconnection from the world. It's especially true for the glasses, because they serve as a barrier between the world and the person's eyes, which are believed to represent the soul. Nemuro is a closed person. We get more commentary on the concept of eternity, which is crucial for the show. Tomiko is trying to dry the roses in a desperate attempt to preserve them for a longer period of time, which shows how much she desires eternity (likely because her brother seems to be gravely ill). But why is her brother black? He doesn't look like his sister at all. It's a very interesting detail, which might be relevant later. As of now, Mamiya is a lot like Himemiya, there are a lot of parallels between these two characters, including their appearance (are they connected?) and the scenes in the greenhouse among the roses. I love how Utena tells Anthy that she doesn't have to follow the orders. It's obvious how Utena is trying to "break the contract", while Anthy is bounded by it. Overall, I absolutely loved this episode. Lots of exciting details, past events, touching scenes and stunning music which sends shivers down my spine. This episode even made me like Mikage a lot. I think he'll turn out to be a tragic character (if he isn't already). Came for that comment, thanks ! |
| Great episode! Seems we finally get a glimpse on why we are having duels in the first place. What does bringing Revolution to the World truly mean? It just shows that Souji is just doing this for his personal gain, maybe there's a reason why he is forcing all these duels against Utena. It seems Souji stayed in the Ohtori Academy for so long. He might have stopped aging, but he would probably passed away if he decides to leave the academy. Lol, I thought my player glitch when it keeps showing those hands with bipping sounds. I guess they want us to focus on these details and form our own takes. |
| the first episode that has really confused me to the point where im going have to rewatch it to make sure i understand everything... so, people at this school, or at least the people wearing rings, dont age so long as they dont leave the school grounds AND in order to get a rose crest ring you must get a contract with akio? so akio is the mastermind manipulating everything behind the scenes with these duels? so what does this have to do with bringing revolution to the world? i also dont understand... is mamiya actually dead or pretending to be? because we've seen him around being... well not dead lol? aslo i have NO fucking clue what those pointing hands are meant to symbolize |
| A really confusing episodes, so I am guessing the flow of time is broken as long as people are in the academy. Because people don't age when hey are in the academy but Tokiko over brewed his tea so I am guessing the sand timer is to fast. |
 _______I like rocks__  |
| First good episode in quite a while. So, to keep it short: people don't age unless they leave the academy area; Mamiya is supposedly dead and it was also revealed that Souji is older than he looks and has been manipulated by Akio to make a "contract" with him in order to truly seek the Power of Dios/Eternity alongside him. Of course, with them having quite different goals for said power. |
Etceteral said: omg that makes so much sense! I cant believe I spent so much time overthinking that ahahah thanks so muchI just realized re-reading these comments that the "pointing hands" reference may have gotten a little more obscure since then... Mikage is referred to as "a computer-like man" early in the episode. At the time of this episode's production, computers and GUIs (graphical user interfaces) were still pretty new for a lot of people... Windows 95 was only a year old, and while Macs were popular in the imagination, they were still pretty expensive machines to have. So the concept of a "mouse pointer" and hand pointing at things in the interface (as a web browser might) while an electronic beeping noise plays jumped out a bit more to people back then. But yes, the hands and the beeping are references to things Mikage, as a "human computer," is noticing, becoming aware of, and paying attention to. They are a reference to the same hand you're of course seeing throughout the Black Rose Saga. |
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Reply to Tien
This episode pretty much confirmed that people don't age in Ohtori Academy. What the hell kind of place is it, lol
We also learn that Mikage is Nemero and that he was being manipulated to participate in some sort of research project; Akio might be the mastermind behind everything; and Mamiya either faked his death or is not alive at all. Plus a bunch of other things that I probably missed.
Those blinking pointing hands were... interesting. Judging by some of the things they were obnoxiously pointing at, like the cats increasing in number and the butterfly on the wall (metamorphosis), they could be metaphors for the concept of time and how messed up it is in Ohtori Academy. I'm not sure why the lipstick on the cup or the two guys holding hands were pointed out though.
We also learn that Mikage is Nemero and that he was being manipulated to participate in some sort of research project; Akio might be the mastermind behind everything; and Mamiya either faked his death or is not alive at all. Plus a bunch of other things that I probably missed.
Those blinking pointing hands were... interesting. Judging by some of the things they were obnoxiously pointing at, like the cats increasing in number and the butterfly on the wall (metamorphosis), they could be metaphors for the concept of time and how messed up it is in Ohtori Academy. I'm not sure why the lipstick on the cup or the two guys holding hands were pointed out though.
| @Tien It could be tbh. It first pointed to the cat. Then another cat was next to it, which likely means it got a mate. Then it pointed to a third cat that was younger, which likely means they had a kid. That's at least a few years that have passed, but the characters remain in the same conversation. It's like time moves differently at the academy. |
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