shiki or humans.....watch the whole series and specials and read the manga...then decide

Piegoose said:

Well I'm only working with what was presented in the show. From that perspective, I say my opinion of the matter. I'm usually too lazy to read mangas anyways, so reading a manga of a story I already know would be pretty much impossible

jonnyhan said:
Mr. Thread starter, how old are you?

Piegoose said:
The "Shiki Paradise" still involves killing people which is just as bad as the humans killing people in the temple. Sure some humans would come back to life as a Shiki, but only 1/3rd to 1/4th.

Yes the villagers would have been scared if they told them bluntly, that's why they would have to critically think a bit to think of a reasonable plan. If they planned it in moderation, they could have gotten their group to be accepted. There would only be three of them at the beginning, so not much blood would be required.

In a way, it's similar to evolution of a species. Shiki are inferior biologically since their prey is as intelligent as them, while human's prey are animals that can be raised and eaten. The animals still get to live some of their life and eat, which wouldn't be much more than if they were in the wild anyways.

Animefreak17a said:
Yep and no one wins. The village was burned to the ground

jonnyhan said:


So do you now agree that no one was really right or wrong?

Animefreak17a said:



nope I say it was the humans lose and heres what I say about them

http://www.tubechop.com/watch/3358186

Piegoose said:

So then you're admitting to being hypocritical?

Animefreak17a said:


Nope I'm admitting human's are pricks..........

jonnyhan said:


And the Shiki are saints? Man you are a lost cause. These arguments will only go in circles for ever with someone who seems to hate humanity in real life and is projecting that hatred into an anime.

minouneetzoe said:
I think I'd say neither. They both acted awfully.

Shiki manipulated the village like a children play with a toy. They killed with no remorse (for most of them). By their own nature, they shouldn't exist. Their only purpose is to hunt human. They are just corpses after all, not too far away from zombie.

On the other hand, the humans were incredibly stupid and crual. It wasn't that much apparent at the beginning, but when the slaughter started, they became crazy as fucktard. Even Toshio with whom I agreed on some point during the anime. But there is just one that shocked me so much, it's the contrast between his reaction to the first time they killed a non-shiki human and his total lack of reaction by the end. It's like he accepted it as a fatality. Killing humans had became normal and they were only collateral damage. They became totally insensible to killing their neighbors, friends or family. They even ended up liking it (those creepy smiles).

In overall, I think it's just a sad tragedy. If someone ''created'' the shiki, he's the real responsible for all these murders.

Orulyon said:
I wont say that the humans were completely innocent...they were cruel enough, but analysing this in a logical way? Shiki started it. and they did more wrong than humans, this would be like Shiki: 70% wrong and humans 30%.
They killed innocent people...including children which at least, they could have spared if they had some code of honor at least. Sunako understood how it was like to be transformed when you're just a child and yet she wants the whole village to be murdered and transformed into shiki. She didnt care about the pain of their families and friends, or the pain of a human becoming a being he didnt want to be.
Humanity in times of crisis will do crazy things its true... but lets just think like this: if humans didnt kill the shiki, the shiki would keep killing humans (and dont even dare to say otherwise because we all know they would not stop until everyone would be dead), so I'll side with humans, because they wanted to survive and honestly? Giving an example: No matter how much I loved my family, if they all were turned into shiki, they would certainly would not be the same: I would never knew when to feel safe at their side, if being by their side would stop them from trying to turning me into shiki etc. You watching your family killing needlessly? I would rather see them all dead and be an orphan than have a shiki family feeding and killing everyone on my village, sorry. And if they tried to transform me to get along? I would hate them so much that I would consider them no family to me anymore.
Shiki killed because they WANTED TO. Not saying they should not be allowed to live...because every being in the planet should have the right to live as much as a human has and humans should stop with the narcissism attitude "I own everything this shit is all mine". But look at Ritsuko and Natsuno. They were both transformed and yet somehow were able to keep their humanity: Ritsuko refused to feed and Natsuno who supposedly didnt give a shit about anything anymore, kept helping Kaoru and her brother. (go read the manga and you will see).
This became a war...and like a real war even if one started it and it was the major guilty, the other will end up killing innocents as well making both sides wrong.

ChaoticSilence said:
I support the humans only because there are so many shiki I absolutely despise. (Sunako, Tatsumi, Chizuru)

Piegoose said:

I didn't think the ending was in full support of the shiki, I thought it just showed that each side just wanted to survive, but it also pointed out how for a shiki to survive, more grief will be created for others and for themselves.


And about the doctor, I think he wasn't a "hero", but he did what should have been done. The only better alternative would be to find a way to get shiki known widespread and try to make a way for blood donations to allow both species to survive. However, that would be very likely to never make way. First, the shiki who wanted to make a safe haven would never take the risk for such an idea and stay on the safe life. Second, if it all went well, the few shiki that still attacked humans after the blood bank situation is set-up would possibly plant seeds to human panic that would in the end cause another war. Third, many people would just be too shocked with the existence of vampires and would never allow for a co-existing society.

The doctor made the most rational decision he could, factoring trying to save the village along with minimizing future human grief and death. Human survival requires far less death than that of shiki survival. The shiki did relate human to cattle at one point, but that comparison isn't exactly the same as the alternative of sharing blood is in place. If there was a way for us to consume some thing of cattle and not kill them in the process, society would without a doubt do that instead. Consuming blood is nothing like having to consume meats and proteins.

rpool179 said:


Damn...well said!!!

OtakuRamen said:
Both were in the wrong in SOME ways, and both sides killed innocent people.

1. The Shiki killed because they wanted to. They DID NOT need to kill anyone. We saw how crafty they were, and how naive the village was. People started dying AND COMING BACK and NO ONE suspected anything supernatural besides the village fruitcake. The Shiki could have EASILY gotten away with sneaking blood from the villagers. Not to mention the fact that they were able to hypnotize whoever they bit, FORCING people to stay quiet about them, and no one the wiser.

So A) Shiki didn't need to kill anyone. B) They could have sustained themselves indefinitely through rationing and hypnosis C) They committed horrible killings anyway.

Basically, Shiki killed because they're murderers. Nothing more or less.
Feel free to argue with this, but please actually defend it, instead of saying "They needed blood to survive just like humans need animals" which, of course, doesn't defend it in any way as it doesn't explain why they didn't go with the plan I show here.

2. The Shiki murdered entire families without thought. You seem to forget that part. They slaughtered the elderly, men, women, and children without mercy. They also enslaved and brainwashed their own kind.

3. If the Shiki had won, and continued their (pretty stupid) plan, both the humans AND the Shiki would have died out. No one but the Jinrou would have won if the Shiki had won.

4. Many of the humans were crazy and did terrible things as well. Many of them also turned into psychopathic murderers. The temple killings were entirely unjustified. However, the majority of the humans acted rationally, being (from their perspective) faced with the murdering scum that killed off their friends and family, and cursed them to come back to life and kill MORE of their friends and family.

tl;dr:

The Shiki as represented in the anime are, at best, cursed, evil serial killers.
The humans did terrible things too, though *most* of it made sense.

Animefreak17a said:


humans are very ignorant things even if sunako came in peace the humans would of feared them and hunted them that's why she did what she did for her kind...shes not evil but is doing it for the sake of her family......

Animefreak17a said:

they only feed on people

Animefreak17a said:

the humans who turned in to shiki was still them selves from when they was humans.... they wasn't being controlled they wasn't evil or anything.....also migumi hated the village because of what they kept saying to her during her time as a human she just wanted to go to the city.

Animefreak17a said:

shiki was still them selves from when they was humans.

OtakuRamen said:

Sunako did only do it for her family, but as she said at the end, she knew she was cursed to cause wanton destruction and carnage. That's why she wanted to die.


No, they murder people. Then the dead come back as Shiki. Didn't you watch/read Shiki?




They were dead bodies. For all we know, they are just imprints of their former selves. We don't know if they were still themselves, no. That was never confirmed at all. Just because they act like their former selves doesn't mean they actually were.

Oh, and another point:
If the Shiki:


Then why are they any different from the humans who killed? Shiki killed too.
They're the same, in your own words. Both Shiki and Humans were murderers.

And yes, the humans did terrible things. A lot of them were horrible people.
But so were the Shiki.
In the end, they both did the wrong thing. That's why both sides lost/won/tied.

Animefreak17a said:
I support the shiki and I'm on there side

The shiki are only feeding them selfs and didn't ask to be shiki,

There not being controlled and are still them selfs when they was human

They don't kill out of malice or hate but to keep on living like we humans kill animals to live on.

I feel sorry for migumi cause all she wanted was to get out of the village and can see her point of view on the villagers being strange

I feel sorry for little vampire girl who's family abandoned her and i can see her point of view

I hate how the villagers handled the shiki and I hate the doctor for what he did to he's wife

I hate how the villagers killed the people in the temple and pipes and the old man and let the shiki Burn in the sun in the special

Even tho most of the shiki are dead the remaining humans lost everything family, there property, homes and village which burned to the ground at least the monk and vampire girl got away..........which is a slap to the face to the villagers lol

And that old bearded bastards got killed by the monk ( in the manga he's death was way more funnier )

And there was a few humans who accepted the shiki for who they was like the monk and the guy with the big gun.

And if a family member of mine was turned in to a shiki I'd help them escape from the evil humans
So yeah I support the shiki

Animefreak17a said:

The only reason it happened was because of humans they are the reason the carnage happened it's humans who wouldn't accept them that's why she called it a curse humans are again stupid things .....

Go read and watch dance in the vampire bund

And yes they drink blood like we feed on animals to live another day....Also sunakos foster father is human too.

Your just making shit up...typical human supporter.

Let's see

( watched the special episode 1 with the pipes)
Natsuno was him self
The nurse

They felt pain
Cried
Had there memories

Yeah I'm calling Bullshit on what you said you have no proof and again I'm calling bullshit shit.

Shiki drank blood in order to live like humans eat animals and planets which we kill in order to live.

It's a 50/50 chance that they turn in to shiki or die or a 10 chance they turn in to advanced shiki.........

The shiki only did it to live humans killed out of enjoyment and hatred thats the difference.

OtakuRamen said:


Most of them killed to survive.
And sure, maybe they had a remnant of their former selves. Also emotion =/= former self, what?
But okay, let's say they were themselves. So they murdered people as themselves and were no different to humans.

Typical shiki supporter. "Oh no, they only did it to survive cus they'd be feared and killed"

Humans fear Shiki because they murder humans. Think about that.

Shiki fear the humans who murder Shiki. It's the exact same thing.

I don't know where you got this hatred nonsense for humans, but it's pointless to argue with a person who has a deep personal issue with their own humanity/the humanity of others, or so it seems . . so I'll let it go.

I'm also not a human supporter. I think both sides were wrong. Try reading a little bit . .

In any case, I've already given enough evidence that both the Shiki and Humans could have done things a lot better, and ultimately both did evil, terrible things and were wrong for doing them.

Your inability to sympathize with human actions causes you to ultra rationalize the Shiki's actions, and that's pitiable. But whatever, that's your problem, not mine.

Feel free to say whatever you want, but I've said my piece. It's just a manga/anime series, you know. It's not like it's the end of the world. . haha.

RDooM said:
Shikis could have survived without killing. Ikumi's mom was living by feeding on the blood offerings Ikumi was giving her. So could have the original 5-6 shikis. But not so easy when there are more than 100.

But no, even though that stupid Sunako lived hundred of years (I assume at least 100) she wasn't smart enough to understand that the creating more shikis would eventually wipe out both humanity and the shikis (killing a human everyday, then that human would rise to feed on others would eventually result in accelerated death rate into extinction)

They compared it to humans killing animals to eat. Well, if I could cut a piece of bacon of the pig and it would regenerate later (like blood replentishes after a while) I would. Tohru was stupid to assume otherwise.

You say humans were evil? What did you expect them to do? To stand there and get killed? Or get turned into a shiki to face the same fate of killing to survive? That's awful.

Shikis, with a few exceptions like Tohru, began to revel in their killings. At first they were regretful for killing people, but after getting fed the "I must kill to survive" excuse, some of them had their conscience wiped clean. Like Megumi killing Kaori's parents. And don't get me started on freakshow Tatsumi.

In contrast, no human killed a shiki with a smile on their face. None. They did it because the shiki were ruining life... were ruining peace... Like Ookawa killed his son, and then when after Sunako he said to her that no father should experience the loss of their child, that a village was an idea where the old die before the young, and that the shikis are ruining it. I felt so bad for him, ruthless as he was. It was at that point that I absolutely despised shiki. There was no more moral dilema. Even Sunao realised it and wanted to die.

The only redeamable shiki was Ritsuko. I would have personally volunteer to help feed her with blood donations from time to time. Maybe Tohru.. though not as convinced. And the shiki who was worthy of pity was Megumi for having her life cut short without having to pursue her dreams, but pity does not mean having their sins excused, so she had to die.

Both sides were wrong, but they got fitting punishments. Shikis the more evil ones were killed, and humans got their homes destroyed (for not finding a more humane way to kill the shikis I suppose).

crisd92 said:
I think you guys are forgetting that the shiki are technically deceased already. They have no pulse and they don't breath either. I felt sad for the shiki because of the way they were being hunted but in all reality it was necessary for them to properly move on to the after life. The events of the shiki hunt did prove how man-kind reacts when there livelihood is at stake and how maniacal people can get when they are desperate to survive. (Like when they ran up in the temple and killed seshin mother) This is prevalent for both the shiki and humans. In conclusion, both parties were at fault at different points in the series.

6Man said:
Hated both sides. Hated how the anime presented the characters. So unrealistic. Both the shiki and the humans were majorly extremist. Its almost as if both groups thought the only way to survive was to kill the other. Thats what irks me the most about this series... they never fucking talked to eachother... It was just like "oh shit your a shiki who feeds on human blood, i better exterminate your entire race to survive" and "im hungry. I might as well kill a human just to get some of its blood". How fucking dumb can you be.
How can NO ONE think of some sort of mutual symbiosis like with Kanami and her mother...

SexyPriest said:

the Kirishikis were pretty dead set on creating a village for Shiki

SexyPriest said:

As soon as a Shiki rises, they are taken by the Kirishikis and are forced to feed on and kill a human. They are manipulated into becoming killers and deluded into thinking that it's the only way for them to survive. Once they have that blood on their hands, it's hard to turn back.

SexyPriest said:

Do you really think a human should "talk it out" with a Shiki that can easily mind control humans? And lest you forget, the vast majority of Shiki have already killed a lot of humans. There's no way the human side could just forget that and see eye to eye with them

Animefreak17a said:


Ummm yes they did have a smile watch the pipe episode special 1 and that bearded bastard in the manga killed with a smile on his face

And that bearded bastard didn't say his gay little hypocrite speech in the manga or novel.........

The manga is closer to the novel and the only reason they put it in was to give a lesson to people at home......a very forced lesson

You felt sorry for that psychopath.......you should see a doctor....actually turn in to a shiki and let that fuck tard doctor see you.

I felt sooooooooooo sorry for migumi wished she got away...

But at least the hero monk and Sunako got away.........a middle finger to the humans and there supporters lol

Again it wasn't in the novel or manga...it was made by the director not the creator.

Go read chapter 41 he didn't say anything but 've a psychopath

I don't care I wanted her to live......but at least the village went up in smoke at least which was a good thing.

The humans was arse holes before the shiki arrived so they had it coming...the rednecka lost it all.

The humans are the evil ones here not the shiki.

The humans

Mocked migumi........she didn't like it at all.
They nosing around other people's business
The forced people to play rolls in the village.......And even threatening them if they didn't play they rolls the villagers wanted.....chapter 33
The bearded bastard beating his son for no reason.

They killed the temple people
Killed a old man
Killed there fellow hunters
The ways they killed the shiki

Burning in the sun
The way they killed migumi.......that was disgusting.....fucking rednecks.

Serves the humans right

StevePen387 said:


I Think you are just delusional and projecting your hate of humanity and wanting the apocalypse to justify merciless killing of the villagers. Yes they need blood to survive, something that was pointed out could have been done by simply collecting blood from all types of people in the village, in hospitals etc.

What you refuse to recognize, admit or even acknowledge is that the Kirishiki family wanted to go to the village and TURN AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. This meant MASS INDISCRIMINATE KILLING. Killing children, nurses, and eventually, kidnapping/killing people for fun! All because the KIRISHIKIS ORDERED THIS! It was not to sustain and to live, it was to have a new vampire village, which meant killing all the current villagers to make more SHIKI!

In the end, you are completely wrong and out of touch. Just because you hate humanity and want the world to end, does not make your opinion even close to valid argument. You are coming from the perspective of a narcisist and a masochist, wanting the world to burn, believing only you are right.

There has been plenty of logical arguments on why you are wrong already. Yes the humans did poor things as well, but the situation started thru serial killings caused not by survival, but by an mass killing initiative. The whole point was to TURN PEOPLE, NOT TO SURVIVE. It was to KILL all the HUMANS. Any human loses their mind slowly in a life and death game, where there village is seemingly being wiped out by demons, losing loved ones left and right.

And you somehow would sit there and say "Fuck the humans" if your family was dropping one by one like some of the families in the beginning of the killings?

Your basically saying "Fuck myself" then. I am sorry but 99% of people would not feel like fucking themselves.

You are wrong. And I am not saying I am right. But I did state universal facts, and CORRECT FACTS from the anime. Don't bring up other animes and manga, we are talking about SHIKI. They killed to kill- not to survive.

They killed to turn people and take over a community- a village that never belonged to them. They decided to show up and wage war the moment they started killing people instead of simply drinking blood.