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Poll: Kingdom 2nd Season Episode 39 Discussion


#1
Mar 1, 2014 6:49 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Damn, I knew Li mu is a lot stronger than people think.

Good thing Xin decided not to fight against him for now. Looking forward for season 3 if it happens.
 
#2
Mar 1, 2014 4:33 PM

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I haven't even watched the episode yet, I'm just so sad to see the little 'airing' sign next to my favourite show has disappeared :(
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#3
Mar 2, 2014 5:39 AM

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It's not the strength of the poison Lu Buwei!

Quite a lot of anime-original today, but they made good use of the last ep. Amusing to see Heki and Changwenjun blatantly talking trash in front of the enemy.

I feel that turning the continuation of last ep into a flashback takes away the tension though.

Xin's definitely got an interesting sense of honour, or is it an understanding of reality? That last scene almost makes it look like they're attacking Li Mu's guard. Seeing the OP and ED like this, they've definitely grown on me.

So that's it then. Time to pray for that 3rd season guys. Daily sacrifices are essential, but i'll let you off with a weekly human offering.
Next time: THE GREATEST ANIME SEASON UNDER HEAVEN.
 
#4
Mar 2, 2014 6:50 AM
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is there a new season after this one ?

cause if not i will read the manga soon
and if it will be . i will read it after the next season
 
#5
Mar 2, 2014 6:57 AM

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gintoke-sama said:
is there a new season after this one ?

cause if not i will read the manga soon
and if it will be . i will read it after the next season
There hasn't been one announced yet. Supposedly it's gotten quite popular, so we have a decent chance.

If you decide to go with the manga: if you have to get into the '3rd season' straight away, then I'd recommend you to at least start at V24 (ch 251). That'll give you about 8 chapters to catch up to where the anime is, but it'll also let you cover the stuff that the last 3 episodes left out (Zhao v Yan and Xin's time on the border).

Do note that the current 'arc' hasn't even been completely scanlated yet, so you'll soon be in the waiting for new chapters.
Modified by Ckan, Mar 2, 2014 1:22 PM
 
#6
Mar 2, 2014 12:22 PM

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The scanlators are working at an amazing pace though and will soon catch up. I actually recommend reading from the start. The art is so much better it's really worth it.

Anyhow, great final episode. Even though the scene after the ED makes me think otherwise, I'm really hoping for a S3, I would love to see the next arc animated.
 
#7
Mar 2, 2014 12:40 PM

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Good episode. So Zheng is gonna be a father. Congrats to him. Hopefully there will be another season of this.
 
#8
Mar 2, 2014 12:50 PM

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Season 2 wrap up nicely. Lot of hype for season 3 as well.
Common, Announce it already!
 
#9
Mar 2, 2014 12:52 PM

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As expected, Li Mu is on a different level. The most dangerous monsters are the ones whose true strength nobody really knows. I thought they'd at least reveal what his plot actually is.

I almost shed a nostalgia tear when Feixin was recollecting on the ones they lost, since they mentioned Wei Ping's brother.

Man, things sure escalated offscreen with Zheng and Xiang lol. She'll be in more danger from Lu Buwei now than before.

Glad Changwenjun got the seat, the guy deserves to be the one representing Zheng's rise.

I really don't know how I'm going to refrain from reading the manga, I'll just have to sit and wait for a while. Kingdom is one of the few cases where I wouldn't rather catch up on the manga instead of waiting for a new season.

Ckan said:

So that's it then. Time to pray for that 3rd season guys. Daily sacrifices are essential, but i'll let you off with a weekly human offering.
Consider it done.
 
Mar 2, 2014 1:39 PM
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Fantastic episode as always, this show can easily go to far above 100, uniting china ,there is no short way to go about it.
 
Mar 2, 2014 2:21 PM

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Hype Hype ~ plz S3 we need uuu soon !
~_~ !
 
Mar 2, 2014 3:41 PM

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What an episode. Oh man hurry up and announce Season 3 already.

Sent with Mal Updater
 
Mar 2, 2014 3:52 PM

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Damn, I was so excited for the final episode, I even had trouble reading the subs in the beginning.

So many things happened in this episode. Foreshadowing when the Old man of the Four Pillars told Li Si that his time will come; a character who was barely introduced in the first season is slowly being shown a lot more. Changwenjun has been with us for a long time now, so it's great to see him rise an power and become an important role.
Zheng is gonna get a child, but I can't help but feel that Lu Buwei (and even Zheng's mother) is planning something in that banquet. Hopefully everyone keeps their guard up. I also wish to see some more brotherly bonding between the Zheng and Chengjiao, the poison itself is needed to make the antidote, and I hope Chengjiao actually becomes a more powerful ally instead of someone that Zheng just needs to strengthen his power. The court is having it's own battle and it's intense as hell.

To be honest, I didn't even see Li Mu being a powerful warrior coming. The moment he unsheathed his sword, I had a feeling he wasn't just a strategist. The way he used Pang Nuan and had that woman as his guard, thought he was only a strategist and not a warrior. I also had the idea that Li Mu was a relaxed person (since he never acted super-manly like the other generals), but in this episode, we were introduced to his immense aura. While it didn't affect Xin, Li Mu came out as a really scary and powerful schemer, instead of just a schemer.

AlexTheRiot said:

I almost shed a nostalgia tear when Feixin was recollecting on the ones they lost, since they mentioned Wei Ping's brother.

I remembered when Wei Dao died, I felt really depressed. I was too caught up with the glory and excitement of war that I forgot characters could die in it. Especially Wei Dao's "Just kidding" right before he died. Shit, man. Just remembering that moment makes me sad.

Ckan said:

Supposedly it's gotten quite popular, so we have a decent chance.

I've been hearing this quite a lot, so I'm trusting you guys on this.

Anyway, amazing series/episode/ending overall. I have a huge thing for historicals, and Kingdom did more than just deliver.
It's been a lot of fun with you guys and hopefully, we'll be discussing about Season 3 soon.
Modified by Azekura, Mar 2, 2014 5:29 PM
 
Mar 2, 2014 4:07 PM

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season 3 yes
 
Mar 2, 2014 4:30 PM

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Season 3 when?

I'm really happy for the king. I knew his girlfriend was pregnant, but that's really dangerous because she is from the harem that his mother runs. If there is a season 3 some stuff is going to go down. I wonder if it's a girl or a boy.

I really hate that guy that's with the kings mother. It's so funny how the king told him he was week straight to his face, he really felt that one.
Modified by Aichiro, Mar 2, 2014 4:57 PM
 
Mar 2, 2014 4:46 PM

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I am conflicted - I want to watch episode 39 but the thought of waiting for an announcement and/or the start of season 3 is so painful. Argggghhhhh What to do...
 
Mar 2, 2014 4:52 PM

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Also hoping for a s3 annoucement
 
Mar 2, 2014 4:59 PM

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season 3 will be a blast, no other wars from previous season can surpass the intensity of season 3
 
Mar 2, 2014 5:20 PM
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god if they dont make s3 im gonna be so pissed that im gonna travel to their headquarters and kick some ass
after that im gonna chew bubblegum
 
Mar 2, 2014 5:27 PM

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and that's a wrap huh
9/10

i really hope xin grows up faster. why is he still in comparison so much shorter than the 'adults' lol
and didnt know zheng was doing the nasty with that girl.. so much for just talking lol.
 
Mar 2, 2014 5:44 PM

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Oh god. What an incredible ride it has been! Especially since I started the show when season 2 was already on air, so I've been quite immersed in this story and universe for the longest time ever.

An amazing episode always, but one with a particularly powerful undertone considering it was the last episode. The one thing I felt was missing was Xin and Zheng's reunion before the end of the season - but of course that would impractical seeing the geographical distance between the two.

Ckan said:
I feel that turning the continuation of last ep into a flashback takes away the tension though.
Actually, I found I prefer it that way, because they probably didn't want that confrontation to be the focus of the ending. I think this episode did a good job of levelling out the tension, celebration, and most important, anticipation for all that is to come. The flashback also gave the 'Young Three' to come together once last time this season to foreshadow (in want of a better word) their significant roles in Qin's future - together and apart. I really liked how it parallels the last scene in season 1, and also makes a contrast and comparison between these two scenes by revoking the same promise, this time including Tian and Ben to Xin and Zheng's ultimate dream.

babymilo91 said:
So Zheng is gonna be a father. Congrats to him.
I CAN'T BELIEVE XIANG ACTUALLY WAS PREGNANT!!! AND ZHENG IS GOING TO BE A FATHER!!! IT ALL HAPPENED SO FAST (AND SO BEHIND THE SCENES) AND CLEARLY I'M OVERREACTING
But yes, this is just as much a cause of celebration as it is a cause for caution. Zheng is made both powerful and vulnerable by each bold step he takes. I can't wait to see my brave young king forge his own path through all these obstacles!

Azekura said:
To be honest, I didn't even see Li Mu being a powerful warrior coming. The moment he unsheathed his sword, I had a feeling he wasn't just a strategist. The way he used Pang Nuan and had that woman as his guard, thought he was only a strategist and not a warrior. I also had the idea that Li Mu was a relaxed person (since he never acted super-manly like the other generals), but in this episode, we were introduced to his immense aura. While it didn't affect Xin, Li Mu came out as a really scary and powerful schemer, instead of just a schemer.
I, on the other hand, was not surprised by this, but it certainly shows how Li Mu's character is anything but bland, as we learn more and more about him with every meeting. My favourite part of that scene was realising, along with Li Mu, that Xin was actually testing his own theory about Li Mu, not just going headfirst into a fight! This shows that he really is developing in all aspects of a good general, not just in the strength and unity aspect.

Oh and it was great to see Qiang Lei, even if for a moment, before the season ended.

And so, I think the end note can be pretty well summarised by Li Mu's appraisal of Xin: "So you're growing as well, are you?" Because it applies to every character and every development we've seen so far in this brilliant show that continues to build its momentum.

EDIT: I think I might die if they don't make a season 3. In any case, Kingdom might be 1 of the only 2 anime ever that's compelling me to read the manga....soooon.
Modified by fullmetalbender, Mar 2, 2014 6:45 PM
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Mar 2, 2014 5:58 PM

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Kurogashi said:
and that's a wrap huh
9/10

i really hope xin grows up faster. why is he still in comparison so much shorter than the 'adults' lol
and didnt know zheng was doing the nasty with that girl.. so much for just talking lol.

seriously lol I thought the same thing guess they were fucking while everybody else was risking their lives during the war XD I'd be pissed if I was in the war and be like why don't I get to fuck ^^
 
Mar 2, 2014 8:23 PM

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7/10, not as good as the first season. They dragged out the war too long, and the good parts were especially dragged out too and they lost their impact, before that they were doing a pretty good job. Despite having better quality animation this season, I just can't rate it as high as season 1 overall.
 
Mar 2, 2014 9:41 PM
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and season 2 is finally over. gonna miss this anime that I'm waiting for new episodes every monday-tuesday for subs :( please make a season 3 because I read in a streaming site that season 3 is not that possible or something we could expect for the reason that it has only mediocre ratings and they only released a dvd version, not a blu ray one on japan plus the sales aren't that much :(
 
Mar 2, 2014 10:26 PM
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Kurogashi said:

and didnt know zheng was doing the nasty with that girl.. so much for just talking

Same, I always thought they were just talking, or maybe sleeping together but no more, I didn't see that well enough :/


Also with Meng Ao/Mou Gou out of the picture, who will be in charge of his 2 vice-generals? We don't know much about them, but they don't seem like the type that would obey any full general...
Modified by geearf, Mar 2, 2014 10:37 PM
 
Mar 2, 2014 10:47 PM

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This show was incredible, and I'm gonna miss it.
Riot for season 3!!!

9/10
 
Mar 2, 2014 11:58 PM
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May I know what chapter in the Manga this episode ended?
 
Mar 3, 2014 12:06 AM

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chapter 261 around there
 
Mar 3, 2014 12:58 AM

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Season3 plsss..
great last ep i thought it ended with a storm but looks like it ended calmly before the storm..
9.5/10..
.5 for advertising this series :D

 
Mar 3, 2014 1:13 AM

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fullmetalbender said:
Ckan said:
I feel that turning the continuation of last ep into a flashback takes away the tension though.
Actually, I found I prefer it that way, because they probably didn't want that confrontation to be the focus of the ending. I think this episode did a good job of levelling out the tension, celebration, and most important, anticipation for all that is to come. The flashback also gave the 'Young Three' to come together once last time this season to foreshadow (in want of a better word) their significant roles in Qin's future - together and apart. I really liked how it parallels the last scene in season 1, and also makes a contrast and comparison between these two scenes by revoking the same promise, this time including Tian and Ben to Xin and Zheng's ultimate dream.
I agree, it was a well thought out decision. As a recently baptised manga-reader it was just interesting to note the continued significant priority change from the manga's escalation/build-up to the anime's wrap-up 'book-end' for the season.

fullmetalbender said:
Azekura said:
To be honest, I didn't even see Li Mu being a powerful warrior coming. The moment he unsheathed his sword, I had a feeling he wasn't just a strategist. The way he used Pang Nuan and had that woman as his guard, thought he was only a strategist and not a warrior. I also had the idea that Li Mu was a relaxed person (since he never acted super-manly like the other generals), but in this episode, we were introduced to his immense aura. While it didn't affect Xin, Li Mu came out as a really scary and powerful schemer, instead of just a schemer.
I, on the other hand, was not surprised by this, but it certainly shows how Li Mu's character is anything but bland, as we learn more and more about him with every meeting. My favourite part of that scene was realising, along with Li Mu, that Xin was actually testing his own theory about Li Mu, not just going headfirst into a fight! This shows that he really is developing in all aspects of a good general, not just in the strength and unity aspect.
To be fair, the anime completely toned down the 'aura' effects of Li Mu's warrior prowess (both in this episode and his diplomacy-mission to Qin at the start of the season), so it's understandable if you forgot the tiny foreshadowing they gave us.

fullmetalbender said:
And so, I think the end note can be pretty well summarised by Li Mu's appraisal of Xin: "So you're growing as well, are you?" Because it applies to every character and every development we've seen so far in this brilliant show that continues to build its momentum.
This is one of the best things about Kingdom: even though it's quite similar to standard 'shounen' development, the growth in Kingdom is multi-faceted, constant, enduring, and most of all, dynamic and incredibly rewarding to watch/read.

fullmetalbender said:
I think I might die if they don't make a season 3. In any case, Kingdom might be 1 of the only 2 anime ever that's compelling me to read the manga....soooon.
It's definitely worth a read eventually (whether it be after the (DEFINITELY HAPPENING) 3rd season or the next) as there are plenty of differences, extras, and nuances that didn't make it into the anime.
 
Mar 3, 2014 2:25 AM

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Ckan said:
fullmetalbender said:
I think I might die if they don't make a season 3. In any case, Kingdom might be 1 of the only 2 anime ever that's compelling me to read the manga....soooon.
It's definitely worth a read eventually (whether it be after the (DEFINITELY HAPPENING) 3rd season or the next) as there are plenty of differences, extras, and nuances that didn't make it into the anime.
I don't doubt it! Incidentally, where do you access the most reliable and updated English translations of the manga?? Is it possible to download the released chapters together?
And I'd really like to take your "DEFINITELY HAPPENING" to heart for the yet-elusive s3. I feel like we can make it happen simply by sheer force of will!
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Mar 3, 2014 2:27 AM

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fullmetalbender said:
And I'd really like to take your "DEFINITELY HAPPENING" to heart for the yet-elusive s3. I feel like we can make it happen simply by sheer force of will!
When a great blaze is started, none can defy it!
 
Mar 3, 2014 2:30 AM

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Ckan said:
fullmetalbender said:
And I'd really like to take your "DEFINITELY HAPPENING" to heart for the yet-elusive s3. I feel like we can make it happen simply by sheer force of will!
When a great blaze is started, none can defy it!

Indeed!
And I had so much fun on this particular discussion forum, I'll miss that too.
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Mar 3, 2014 2:39 AM

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fullmetalbender said:
Ckan said:
fullmetalbender said:
And I'd really like to take your "DEFINITELY HAPPENING" to heart for the yet-elusive s3. I feel like we can make it happen simply by sheer force of will!
When a great blaze is started, none can defy it!

Indeed!
And I had so much fun on this particular discussion forum, I'll miss that too.
It is a difficult task to immediately reignite such great fires once they have been extinguished.

The Kingdom, long united, will divide; long divided, it must unite. Such, it has always been.

OUR TIME SHALL COME AGAIN: KINGDOM S3 SHALL AWAKEN!
 
Mar 3, 2014 3:26 AM

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Good way to wrap up the season and give us some foreshadowing for what hopefully is a third season. Xin has came a long way. :)

I'll be crossing my fingers for the next season. There is a good 100 chapters of source so I'd love a Summer start or fall third season.
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Mar 3, 2014 5:52 AM

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Well the last ep turned out great after all, Li Mu n Shin is like teacher teaching his own disciple 2 me in this ep. The next arc should be the greatest battlefield under heaven arc kankoku pass!

I also wish 4 the same dat kingdom should have season 3 since I still have yet to seen Shin becoming the greatest general under heaven and wut comes afterward once his dream fulfilled.. will it be prosperity or his downfall!?


 
Mar 3, 2014 6:36 AM

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Gib S3.. :(

Possibly the best anime of the last 3 seasons..
 
Mar 3, 2014 8:39 AM

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fullmetalbender said:
Ckan said:
fullmetalbender said:
And I'd really like to take your "DEFINITELY HAPPENING" to heart for the yet-elusive s3. I feel like we can make it happen simply by sheer force of will!
When a great blaze is started, none can defy it!

Indeed!
And I had so much fun on this particular discussion forum, I'll miss that too.

This.
It was nice to see our posts not get drowned by a million of others. I'll miss you guys.


I'm also getting a huge urge to read the manga now. At least get to the part where Season 3 finished, but I know I'll feel like reading more...
Though if I read the manga, I'm scared that the anime won't have the same impact anymore.
Kurogashi said:
and that's a wrap huh
9/10

i really hope xin grows up faster. why is he still in comparison so much shorter than the 'adults' lol
and didnt know zheng was doing the nasty with that girl.. so much for just talking lol.

I sorta knew Zheng was doing "nasty things" to Xiang. It only made sense, since she's part of the harem. I know Kings back an the ancient times had as many children as they can with numerous concubines, just in case if a child dies, they still have another to be a heir. But I'm wondering, Xiang is only part of the harem and just a maid, so how does Zheng pick the Empress? Does she have to be of noble birth too? Because even though Xiang is having Zheng's baby, her social class is low.
 
Mar 3, 2014 8:53 AM
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Damn. I now want to see S3 ._. Feels like Li Mu is planning something worse than a Chu-Zhao alliance. I can't wait to see what will happen next BUT I WON'T READ THE MANGA.
Please anounce it soon.
Please...
 
Mar 3, 2014 8:57 AM

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Azekura said:
I'm also getting a huge urge to read the manga now. At least get to the part where Season 3 finished, but I know I'll feel like reading more...
Though if I read the manga, I'm scared that the anime won't have the same impact anymore.
Yeah, I tried that. You'll need a huge amount of self-restraint to stop yourself going into the next arc as the mangaka wonderfully ties each to the other: you'll have to shut yourself down long before you reach the S2 anime-ending, as the manga constantly maintains momentum/buildup unlike the anime which purposefully cut-out aspects so as to create this 'clean-cut end'.


Azekura said:
Kurogashi said:

and didnt know zheng was doing the nasty with that girl.. so much for just talking lol.

I sorta knew Zheng was doing "nasty things" to Xiang. It only made sense, since she's part of the harem. I know Kings back an the ancient times had as many children as they can with numerous concubines, just in case if a child dies, they still have another to be a heir. But I'm wondering, Xiang is only part of the harem and just a maid, so how does Zheng pick the Empress? Does she have to be of noble birth too? Because even though Xiang is having Zheng's baby, her social class is low.
I believe (and this is extremely unreliable bare-bones knowledge) that historically, the 'Empress' is actually an 'Empress Consort'; that is to say, that she isn't 'married' to the Emperor and given direct power and lineage in the way that 'Queens of Kings' do.
The Empress Consort would be the primary spouse and the mother of the future Emperor, so it'd probably be a free decision based on political/relational circumstances.
Just for a continuation of the knowledge dump fun, I believe that 'Consorts' or 'Imperial Madams' would be the next level of favoured/influential harem girls, and the rest being 'concubines'.
Once the Emperor is enthroned, his mother becomes the Empress Dowager (who have often famously been seen as poor rulers and a terrible influence on the state, historical sexism hoy!)

Actually, in hindsight, the titles I used are probably completely off, and that across the long-history of dynasties, there must have been huge varieties of ranking/privilege/court systems. Regardless, it is probably somewhat accurate in a broad-stroke fashion.
Modified by Ckan, Mar 3, 2014 9:03 AM
 
Mar 3, 2014 9:13 AM

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The only internet connection I will have for the next few weeks is my mobile flat-rate.
I couldn't even read the new chapters because they didn't load.
I wanna watch this episode so hard and my life sucks.

antonnn said:
7/10, not as good as the first season. They dragged out the war too long, and the good parts were especially dragged out too and they lost their impact, before that they were doing a pretty good job. Despite having better quality animation this season, I just can't rate it as high as season 1 overall.


True, but the characters this time were more interesting, for me at least. I only missed Yotanwa and Bajio, but they didn't even appear in the manga so far. Overall, the second season seems to be far more popular.
 
Mar 3, 2014 2:58 PM

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Ckan said:

I believe (and this is extremely unreliable bare-bones knowledge) that historically, the 'Empress' is actually an 'Empress Consort'; that is to say, that she isn't 'married' to the Emperor and given direct power and lineage in the way that 'Queens of Kings' do.
The Empress Consort would be the primary spouse and the mother of the future Emperor, so it'd probably be a free decision based on political/relational circumstances.
Just for a continuation of the knowledge dump fun, I believe that 'Consorts' or 'Imperial Madams' would be the next level of favoured/influential harem girls, and the rest being 'concubines'.


So according to you (Since I'm too lazy to search this up myself right now), being of noble blood isn't needed? I thought rich and noble families try their best to get the Emperor to marry their daughter, for power ties and whatnot. I can be totally wrong, but I thought that's how it worked. Seeing how Zheng is trying to get as much power as he can, I was expecting him to get a woman from a powerful family to go against Lu Buwei. Even if that is somewhat selfish, it is ancient China. I guess Zheng will at least separate love from politics (at least for now). To be honest, I have no idea how marriage or becoming an Empress of China during the Warring States work; for now I'll just believe your right, but I guess I'll research it myself later on.

Anyway, now I'm thinking that Xiang has a chance of becoming an Empress Dowager. Since she holds Zheng's baby, and just like the current Empress Dowager, she isn't of noble birth (If I recall correctly, Zheng's mother was a dancer, right? It's been awhile), Xiang has a pretty good chance of becoming the next Dowager, and increase Zheng's power by giving him the support of the Harem. Now we just need to know the full requirements of becoming a new Empress Dowager and replacing the old one.
 
Mar 3, 2014 3:38 PM

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Azekura said:
Anyway, now I'm thinking that Xiang has a chance of becoming an Empress Dowager. Since she holds Zheng's baby, and just like the current Empress Dowager, she isn't of noble birth (If I recall correctly, Zheng's mother was a dancer, right? It's been awhile)
It certainly looks that way. (And correct, on Zheng's mum.)

Azekura said:
Xiang has a pretty good chance of becoming the next Dowager, and increase Zheng's power by giving him the support of the Harem. Now we just need to know the full requirements of becoming a new Empress Dowager and replacing the old one.
I was probably unclear in my rant.
The Empress Dowager would be the current Emperor's mother; so long as Zheng is alive, his mother will remain Dowager. Fr now, the highest Xiang could become would be Empress.

I also need to correct myself: it should be that the Empress is chosen, and her eldest son would normally become heir. I believe I originally wrote it the other way round (the heir makes the Empress).

It might not be so easy to gain 'control' of the harem. The first issue would be the Dowager Empress. I'm actually uncertain as to whether the Dowager empress holds authority over the harem, or if it's just a manga quirk. I'm unsure, because I'm fairly certain the 'true' head would normally be the current Empress (although I'd think that the Dowager does hold the 'highest' position of respect). Then again, her current 'reign' over the Harem is logical, as Zheng has only recently come of age/the throne.

So, if the Dowager is the head of the Harem, then it could be slow struggle to gain influence amongst the various consorts and their families. There's also to mention that those other concubines could make a play for power themselves (if Zheng spreads his seed like a proper Harem King).

I'm also uncertain as to whether the 'kings' of the Warring States would have the same system as the later Dynastic Emperors, but I think it's likely, as they'd probably take after the Shang and Zhou 'kings'.
Modified by Ckan, Mar 3, 2014 3:44 PM
 
Mar 3, 2014 3:48 PM

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Hoping for a season 3!!!
 
Mar 3, 2014 4:15 PM

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Azekura said:
It was nice to see our posts not get drowned by a million of others.
Lol I know right! As much as I want posts flooding this forum indicating all the popularity for this show for the sake of season 3 as it deserves, I also enjoy the fact that I can read all this constructive discussion over a few pages unlike every other episode discussion thread which regurgitates the same thing a hundred times.

Ckan said:
Azekura said:
I'm also getting a huge urge to read the manga now. At least get to the part where Season 3 finished, but I know I'll feel like reading more...
Though if I read the manga, I'm scared that the anime won't have the same impact anymore.
Yeah, I tried that. You'll need a huge amount of self-restraint to stop yourself going into the next arc as the mangaka wonderfully ties each to the other: you'll have to shut yourself down long before you reach the S2 anime-ending, as the manga constantly maintains momentum/buildup unlike the anime which purposefully cut-out aspects so as to create this 'clean-cut end'.
This is a dilemma indeed. I'm not much used to manga, but I know I have very little restraint when it comes to reading, and I can't stand leaving things at 'cliffhangers' if the next bit is available. Just an occupational hazard of an avid bibliophile, I suppose.

Azekura said:
I thought rich and noble families try their best to get the Emperor to marry their daughter, for power ties and whatnot. I can be totally wrong, but I thought that's how it worked. Seeing how Zheng is trying to get as much power as he can, I was expecting him to get a woman from a powerful family to go against Lu Buwei. Even if that is somewhat selfish, it is ancient China. I guess Zheng will at least separate love from politics (at least for now).
I'm pretty sure you're not wrong in that assumption, but I think the most importance was placed upon bearing son of the emperor regardless of her own birth. Of course, if a blue blooded laby within the harem was able to do so, then that would be a bonus and would, in a way, 'legitimises' his claim to the throne more than his 'lesser' brothers - as Zheng's own brother claimed. But all of this comes from reading snippets of fiction and non-fiction, and of course anime, not any actual research. I don't have much knowledge of the ways of ancient Far East Orient.
As for Zheng securing political power through his own potential consort, I'm sure there's a possibility that will happen if the plot decides to involve more women in the court, which would be very very interesting. Anyway, I guess I'm surprised by Zheng as he is now (soon-to-be a father) because I forgot how intelligent and aware these things he is - I've probably been over-exposed to Xin, who didn't even have the slightest clue about Diao!

Ckan said:
I also need to correct myself: it should be that the Empress is chosen, and her eldest son would normally become heir. I believe I originally wrote it the other way round (the heir makes the Empress).
Actually, I thought you might've been right the first time? I mean, would the son of 'first consort' be guaranteed suitability as to being heir? Because unlike the Western system, the next emperor/king would be decided by the current emperor, wouldn't he? I've seen a few anime at least in which the heir is changed and is not necessarily born of the 'first consort' (heir presumptive?). However, that didn't change her own position as 'first', rather it gave the new heir's mother increased power/influence. Is that what you meant?

Ckan said:
It might not be so easy to gain 'control' of the harem. The first issue would be the Dowager Empress. I'm actually uncertain as to whether the Dowager empress holds authority over the harem, or if it's just a manga quirk. I'm unsure, because I'm fairly certain the 'true' head would normally be the current Empress (although I'd think that the Dowager does hold the 'highest' position of respect). Then again, her current 'reign' over the Harem is logical, as Zheng has only recently come of age/the throne.

So, if the Dowager is the head of the Harem, then it could be slow struggle to gain influence amongst the various consorts and their families. There's also to mention that those other concubines could make a play for power themselves (if Zheng spreads his seed like a proper Harem King).
Yep, this why introducing the power play of the women of court would be highly intriguing. In fact, I'd be greatly interested to see any and all new developments at court, as the battles episodes do sometimes wear me out.
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Mar 3, 2014 4:44 PM

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Nice ending, gives me some hope for a third season.
Zheng was having fun huh? :)
I'm definitely starting the manga tonight, I give this season a 9, it had it's flaws but I loved it, definitely my favorite this past couple seasons.
Currently watching everything that comes out to avoid missing something good...

 
Mar 3, 2014 5:56 PM

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Ckan said:
I was probably unclear in my rant.
The Empress Dowager would be the current Emperor's mother; so long as Zheng is alive, his mother will remain Dowager. Fr now, the highest Xiang could become would be Empress.


"A dowager is a widow who holds a title or property, or dower, derived from her deceased husband."

AHHH. I never came across the word Dowager before, so I just assumed it was a Chinese title for the empress. I feel like the biggest idiot here now. So embarrassed, dammit.

Well, at least Xiang has a chance of becoming Empress then.

Ckan said:

It might not be so easy to gain 'control' of the harem. The first issue would be the Dowager Empress. I'm actually uncertain as to whether the Dowager empress holds authority over the harem, or if it's just a manga quirk. I'm unsure, because I'm fairly certain the 'true' head would normally be the current Empress (although I'd think that the Dowager does hold the 'highest' position of respect). Then again, her current 'reign' over the Harem is logical, as Zheng has only recently come of age/the throne.

Yeah, not sure how the Harem system actually works in the Warring States era, especially in Kingdom. It seems a lot more logical if the current Empress has a hold of the Harem instead of the Empress Dowager, and the Dowager is just a symbolic figure than a person of actual power. If the state was following Confucian rules (which does give more respect to the elders), then maybe there's a chance that the Dowager can control the Harem, but many of the big philosophies at the time were not instilled during this era. Anyway, right now, Zheng doesn't have an Empress, but if Xiang becomes one, then we'll actually know if she gets to control the harem. Even controlling a portion of it will reduce Lu Buwei's power.

Ckan said:

I'm also uncertain as to whether the 'kings' of the Warring States would have the same system as the later Dynastic Emperors, but I think it's likely, as they'd probably take after the Shang and Zhou 'kings'.

Yep. All the States are originally derived from Zhou, which came from Shang. Though, they might have some differences between them, I'm pretty sure the system is similar to the original Zhou court. There are some schools of thought being originated at the time; so some of the states might be adopting a few. Especially Qin in the future.

Ckan said:

(if Zheng spreads his seed like a proper Harem King).

I'm actually wondering if Zheng will become a Harem King. Historically,

Spoilers because of history.

fullmetalbender said:

As for Zheng securing political power through his own potential consort, I'm sure there's a possibility that will happen if the plot decides to involve more women in the court, which would be very very interesting. Anyway, I guess I'm surprised by Zheng as he is now (soon-to-be a father) because I forgot how intelligent and aware these things he is - I've probably been over-exposed to Xin, who didn't even have the slightest clue about Diao!

I've noticed now that mostly everyone in the court are men (which makes sense for that time anyway). Though, historically, there were well-known women who sided with Zheng during that age. Supposedly, there were two extremely rich female merchants who Zheng asked for help, and they gave him their support. Not sure if they'll be in it.
Also, one of the notable thing that happens between harem women are how they all fight each other, so their own son might become the next emperor. There could be a chance of some women in the court, but when it comes to political/diplomatic/etc. court positions, it's most likely still going to be all men.

Also, Xin couldn't tell Qiang Lei was a girl until he "touched" her boobs. I'm actually wondering, what Xin's type is?
 
Mar 3, 2014 6:15 PM

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Azekura said:
I've noticed now that mostly everyone in the court are men (which makes sense for that time anyway). Though, historically, there were well-known women who sided with Zheng during that age. Supposedly, there were two extremely rich female merchants who Zheng asked for help, and they gave him their support. Not sure if they'll be in it.
Also, one of the notable thing that happens between harem women are how they all fight each other, so their own son might become the next emperor. There could be a chance of some women in the court, but when it comes to political/diplomatic/etc. court positions, it's most likely still going to be all men.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Women behind the scenes in those eras were all the more interesting because of it. Since it's seemingly historically accurate (??) in terms of hierarchy, male/female gender roles etc, I know better than to expect women having direct political power through court or military positions (other than certain exceptional cases we've seen).
It would be extremely dangerous for Xiang to enter the harem officially as it is now. She has the courage, but is not yet experienced or daring enough to even begin to contend with the dowager empress. But it seems inevitable that attention would converge on her now that she's bearing Zheng's child.
Goshhh all this speculation regarding this particular aspect is only fueling my anticipation for season 3!!
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Mar 3, 2014 7:33 PM

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Finally had a chance to watch the episode.

Really liked how they reminded us of past fallen comrades. Very nice touch and well done.

The power play in the royal court is fascinating. I hope this gets explored a little more if and when season 3 comes out.

Season two had many great episodes. The story didn't feel as tight as season one, maybe because of the emotional ties that were made, particularly with Wang Qi and his death in the end, and how the season truly felt self-contained.

Watching season 2 sort of reminded me of the 2nd Lord of the Rings movie. Lots of great stuff going on, but you catch glimpses that season 3 would really kick it into high gear. :)

The ending scene where they show the Fei Xin unit and their flags being lifted high reminded me just how much Xin and the rest of his comrades have grown. The final shot of Xin on horseback was icing on the cake. What a great ride. It would be a real shame not to continue with a next season.
 
Mar 3, 2014 7:44 PM

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razorwire said:
Watching season 2 sort of reminded me of the 2nd Lord of the Rings movie. Lots of great stuff going on, but you catch glimpses that season 3 would really kick it into high gear.
Ooh interesting point! I see it now - the super massive battle can be compared to Helm's Gate, and the 'end' serving not really as an ending, but rather the beginning of a crucial stage in their journey. If the potential season 3 is going to be anything like Return of the King, then I await it even more eagerly (if that's possible) and pray for the announcement of its existence!
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