DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
Belum_Nabum said: xelloss said: Well Drei did the Yokohama incident pretty much by herself. Picture related to the next ep features: HEY! COOL ART! agreed i can't wait>_< hopefully it would be a not bad - ending =[ And in the preview we get to see reiji pointing a gun at someone |
| LET JUSTICE BE DONE; THOUGH THE HEAVENS MAY FALL |
kerobear said: And in the preview we get to see reiji pointing a gun at someone Prolly at Shit Master & he will get his nuts blow up, ku ku ku *laugh heartlessly* Wai-, did this guy ever have...er..."nuts"? Since he never looked straight in my eyes >_> |
 If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| I hope Elen or Reiji kills Cal in a brutal and graphic way. She's REALLY pissing me off with her misdirected 'hatred', her hyper puberty body, her showy "I'm the new Phantom" git. She doesn't deserve the title, Zwei and Ein together make the perfect phantom, she's a pup in comparison. If Cal kills Elen I'll be very disappointed in this series. |
 |
| Gahhh I can't wait for next episode. I hope nobody uhh dies. |
 |
| DAMN YOU PEDO-MASTER! What did you do to sweet Cal? From a genius cute girl she turned into a hot-headed slut. Seriously, I just hope Elen kills everyone one now. -_- And what's with the bgm music in this show? First we have the "f*ck me I'm famous" Reiji theme, then the "Melody" techno remix, and finally they decided to just add random woman moaning? Well I guess the last bgm suits new Cal's bitch attitude at least. Worried at where this show is going, I hope they make up in the next few episodes. |
Nayrael said: She was too naive and young to realize that Reiji left for a reason and it wasn't just because he thought she was dead. If she had taken the time to research it while she was under Scythe's care, she would have known that he was being hunted down and needed to get out of the country that very second. Not seeing her after the room blew up made it harder for him to stick around and search. She probably knows now considering she knows who Ein is but being taught to think your loved one left you probably out ways the truth. PS. being blown up doesn't mean there's always going to be a body ;). As a genius she should have thought about that in staid of automatically assuming he left just because he wanted too. But then again Reiji assumed she was blown to bits and didn't double check to see if she was hiding so I guess their both at fault. This episode made me dislike Cal even more then the last ep. She's too showy when she does things. You cant even consider her a true assassin let alone a Phantom. She more closely resembles a psycho killer who has fun and plays games while killing their target(s). |
^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
Alexstratz said: DAMN YOU PEDO-MASTER! What did you do to sweet Cal? From a genius cute girl she turned into a hot-headed slut. Seriously, I just hope Elen kills everyone one now. -_- Excuse me, do you at least know the definition of "slut" ? Did you see Cal sleeping with any dude beside Reiji ? 'Cause I honestly dont remember getting any scene like that after completing the game & even re-play her path 4-5 times. However, Ein, on the other hand, might suit the word you used better, by definition of course, since I have no reason to hate & call her as such. Also, sorry guys, but this is one of the rare threads that I saw people hating on a character for some F'king stupid reasons; all I see is "Oh-Em-Gee, I so hated this bitch because she's hot!" or "WTF happened! Why did she grow up so much after 2 years...Bla bla bla" or "Dammit! I wish she died... Because? She's a bitch, of course." Even her attitude is perfectly understandable: She loves a guy named Reiji, she thought their relation was mutual since he promised to stay by her side. Then explosion happened, and she thought he was dead, mourning for him but BANG! All of a sudden, he was allive, together with another girl, never come back to search for her, even after all the sweet talk he said, leaving her all alone once again. So, WTF cant she be allowed to be angry at him? She was strong, as shown in this episode, so why can't she show off when she is this powerful? Funny how people talk about her being showy, not behaving like Phantom, when up til now she DID blow her target's head up and completed her GDODAMN missions splendidly, whereas Mrs.Ein got F'ked up by mere Lizzie & Sir Reiji also used to PLAY AROUND with Scythe Master like a psycopath & failed to kill his target. So those are the TRUE Phantoms you expect her to be, dont make me ROFL, PUH-LEASE. |
BitchMasterAug 23, 2009 12:06 AM
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
Shancakeschan said: Dont worry I'm sure we will see Cal and Reiji back together! xDIm kind of annoyed. I dont want Cal to hate Reji. :( Why does Sythe always get what he wants? He needs to be killed already. They really are making a point on how much Cal(Drei) Doesn't care about anything. (except to kill Reiji) The more high and mighty I see Drei acting, the more I think she isn't going to go out like this considering all the prevoius episodes we had before, Reiji wouldn't of forgotten the time they spent together and will never be able to shoot Cal. And though all we see is hate, destruction from Drei, those warm memories and feelings would still be hidden underneath this shell of her, I think. Though it might not happpen next episode, we will definitely see Drei change back to into the kind, happy Cal we have got to know. Go reiji! you have to bring Bring Cal back. DeathfireD said: While its a little heartbreaking to see Cal like this.. I dont think they are trying to make Cal(Drei) that likeable at this stage, but also I dont think were meant to hate her. (Because we know that her sitution isn't so much her fault) Right now They are showing just how far Cal has fallen into the Darkness, and how Driven she is.This episode made me dislike Cal even more then the last ep. She's too showy when she does things. You cant even consider her a true assassin let alone a Phantom. She more closely resembles a psycho killer who has fun and plays games while killing their target(s). The more Intence her Hatred is show to be and lack of Caring. Is more of a reflection of how much she loved Reiji. The more she loved Reiji the further she would fall into the Darkness, So to play out Cal's strong feeling of how much she cared, they went in the opposite direction. |
reptiliaAug 23, 2009 12:31 AM
BitchMaster said: Alexstratz said: DAMN YOU PEDO-MASTER! What did you do to sweet Cal? From a genius cute girl she turned into a hot-headed slut. Seriously, I just hope Elen kills everyone one now. -_- Excuse me, do you at least know the definition of "slut" ? Did you see Cal sleeping with any dude beside Reiji ? 'Cause I honestly dont remember getting any scene like that after completing the game & even re-play her path 4-5 times. As far as animu is concerned, nobody gives a damn about the definition. After all Mio in K-ON is called a slut but I didn't see her sleeping with anyone, since there aren't anything called a "boy" or "man" in that show. :p It's more a matter of attitude. However, Ein, on the other hand, might suit the word you used better, by definition of course, since I have no reason to hate & call her as such. So... getting abused by pedo-bear and trying to live a normal life afterwards with a boyfriend (even though he sucks) makes you a slut? :D Also, sorry guys, but this is one of the rare threads that I saw people hating on a character for some F'king stupid reasons; all I see is "Oh-Em-Gee, I so hated this bitch because she's hot!" or "WTF happened! Why did she grow up so much after 2 years...Bla bla bla" or "Dammit! I wish she died... Because? She's a bitch, of course." Na, I don't like the new her because she thinks she's some hot shit now who haxx with guns and has Claudia's... "assets" without her brains. I prefer the silent assassin type when it comes to girls with guns. :) Even her attitude is perfectly understandable: She loves a guy named Reiji, she thought their relation was mutual since he promised to stay by her side. Then explosion happened, and she thought he was dead, mourning for him but BANG! All of a sudden, he was allive, together with another girl, never come back to search for her, even after all the sweet talk he said, leaving her all alone once again. So, WTF cant she be allowed to be angry at him? Yeah well you described my main concern with this show after the first arc. It feels like a soap opera, with people reviving from the dead everywhere and going all emo or f*cked up in their head. But I'll continue to watch this just to see pedo-master die. :D |
AlexstratzAug 23, 2009 12:38 AM
| @BitchMaster: Completely true what you say there. PS. being blown up doesn't mean there's always going to be a body ;). As a genius she should have thought about that in staid of automatically assuming he left just because he wanted too. But then again Reiji assumed she was blown to bits and didn't double check to see if she was hiding so I guess their both at fault. Some kind of remain can always be found. And yes, they are both at fault. Thats is the point of it all: Reiji and Cal made mistakes which turned them into enemies and Ellen found herself in the middle of that affair. While its a little heartbreaking to see Cal like this.. I dont think they are trying to make Cal(Drei) that likeable at this stage, but also I dont think were meant to hate her. (Because we know that her sitution isn't so much her fault) Right now They are showing just how far Cal has fallen into the Darkness, and how Driven she is. You are completely true there. Scyhte found Cal when she was emotionaly most vunerable and manipulated her. It is similiar like with Ein: she herself may not like what she is, but she can't not be that. Even tough they are completely different in attitude and all, they are still Scyhte's Ein and Drei, not Ellen and Cal. |
NayraelAug 23, 2009 1:38 AM
 |
| How come I was so late with this episode? : o Oh w/e, not that I care, really : D Anyway, as I mentioned from the previous episode, "loli-grown-up-all-too-fast" is better than "loli-not-grown-up", and her attitude is.. pretty strange, although I think I completely understand her lack of control. To not make this post too long (I'm too lazy to write yet another resumé of the episode, that's so often found in these discussion threads), if anyone's to die of these, I'd say that has to be Cal, she's still annoying. Oh and btw, I realized Scythe Master's lack of morals and manipulative nature reminds me of someone here : D |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
Oosran said: How come I was so late with this episode? : o Oh w/e, not that I care, really : D Anyway, as I mentioned from the previous episode, "loli-grown-up-all-too-fast" is better than "loli-not-grown-up", and her attitude is.. pretty strange, although I think I completely understand her lack of control. To not make this post too long (I'm too lazy to write yet another resumé of the episode, that's so often found in these discussion threads), if anyone's to die of these, I'd say that has to be Cal, she's still annoying. Oh and btw, I realized Scythe Master's lack of morals and manipulative nature reminds me of someone here : D Who is that it reminds of? BTW me too I got sick of resume that is why I post 1 or 2 or at most 3 pics with minor comments. Takes less time and is better for me. I have other things in life now also. Besides there are way too many blogs that do this also. |
 |
| new Cal is TOO HOT .. hotness and awesomeness >9000 |
Belum_Nabum said: Oosran said: Oh and btw, I realized Scythe Master's lack of morals and manipulative nature reminds me of someone here : D Who is that it reminds of? Uh.. well, I was kind of thinking of myself, although don't give it too much thought. |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
Oosran said: Belum_Nabum said: Oosran said: Oh and btw, I realized Scythe Master's lack of morals and manipulative nature reminds me of someone here : D Who is that it reminds of? Uh.. well, I was kind of thinking of myself, although don't give it too much thought. You are certainly interesting and would looks forward in the exchange of more ideas of anime we will watch in common. Maybe I should try to follow your tastes. |
|
Uh.. well, I was kind of thinking of myself, although don't give it too much thought. And there I hoped you were talking about me... BTW me too I got sick of resume that is why I post 1 or 2 or at most 3 pics with minor comments. Takes less time and is better for me. I have other things in life now also. Besides there are way too many blogs that do this also. Indeed, when I blog I like to blog entire shows rather then ep by ep, tough I do like to post a lot in forums (especialy when I have nothing else to do... like these days... colledge can't come soon enough...). Damn, we need to return back to on-topic discussions... |
|
Nayrael said: Uh.. well, I was kind of thinking of myself, although don't give it too much thought. And there I hoped you were talking about me... BTW me too I got sick of resume that is why I post 1 or 2 or at most 3 pics with minor comments. Takes less time and is better for me. I have other things in life now also. Besides there are way too many blogs that do this also. Indeed, when I blog I like to blog entire shows rather then ep by ep, tough I do like to post a lot in forums (especialy when I have nothing else to do... like these days... colledge can't come soon enough...). Damn, we need to return back to on-topic discussions... About on topic any possibility that the end might be a happy where all live and all bad die like an ending not in the game. |
|
Nayrael said: Uh.. well, I was kind of thinking of myself, although don't give it too much thought. And there I hoped you were talking about me... : D Nayrael said: Damn, we need to return back to on-topic discussions... tch, on-topic are for weaklings, don't you think? : D (Or never mind that, let's start being on-topic again) This show's got great story *nods in consent* x) |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
| 3=<3 byebye eren |
And why is Reiji & Ellen still in highschool after 2 years? arent they supposed to be 19-20 by now? they fabricated all of their data so why not their ages ? Excuse me, do you at least know the definition of "slut" ? Did you see Cal sleeping with any dude beside Reiji ? 'Cause I honestly dont remember getting any scene like that after completing the game & even re-play her path 4-5 times. However, Ein, on the other hand, might suit the word you used better, by definition of course, since I have no reason to hate & call her as such. ugh...i didnt see any of them sleeping with anyone, not even a hint of it and im happy with that...damn those hentai games x_X byebye eren  Cals hotness is so hot it makes me shiver everytime i see her (even more when i did after realizing how hot was Zwei when he turned out to be hip hop gangsta in second arc) I hope none of them will die because Cal is too hot to die, and Elen just dont deserve it after all of this :( |
NeilikkiAug 23, 2009 7:22 AM
| Damn Scythe Master 4 making cal into a phantom |
 |
Nate2k90 said: Damn Scythe Master 4 making cal into a phantom Oh it isn't that bad now, is it? Cal as Drei is better than Cal as annoying loli *nods in consent* Also, Scythe Master ain't that bad a guy, is he? ;_; I actually like him more than a few other despicable characters in this anime (a few examples: Lizzie, Claudia and Ray. Oh and that guy.. uuh Isaac something, whom Claudia shot) |
| Protip: I don't really check the forums anymore, so if you want something, take it on my profile. Is it time for my long-awaited return to the forums? щ(ﾟДﾟщ) Nope™, probably not. |
Neilikki said: Excuse me, do you at least know the definition of "slut" ? Did you see Cal sleeping with any dude beside Reiji ? 'Cause I honestly dont remember getting any scene like that after completing the game & even re-play her path 4-5 times. However, Ein, on the other hand, might suit the word you used better, by definition of course, since I have no reason to hate & call her as such. ugh...i didnt see any of them sleeping with anyone, not even a hint of it and im happy with that...damn those hentai games x_X I was talking about the game so it's totally normal if you didnt see it & good for you, but oh well, you might learn it later on anyway, no need for spoiling your innocent mind ;p Alexstratz said: However, Ein, on the other hand, might suit the word you used better, by definition of course, since I have no reason to hate & call her as such. So... getting abused by pedo-bear and trying to live a normal life afterwards with a boyfriend (even though he sucks) makes you a slut? :D Yeah, that's why I said "by definition", she's a slut, but I never intended to use this word to insult her personality because unlike certain someone, I dont like using derogatory words such as "slut" lightly on a character just because they are 2-D. So please read my post carefully before making assumptions. Also, sorry guys, but this is one of the rare threads that I saw people hating on a character for some F'king stupid reasons; all I see is "Oh-Em-Gee, I so hated this bitch because she's hot!" or "WTF happened! Why did she grow up so much after 2 years...Bla bla bla" or "Dammit! I wish she died... Because? She's a bitch, of course." Na, I don't like the new her because she thinks she's some hot shit now who haxx with guns and has Claudia's... "assets" without her brains. I prefer the silent assassin type when it comes to girls with guns. :) Well, please re-read my post again to see my point regarding this issue, but if it's your personal taste about girls with guns hafta have her mouth shut 24/7, it can't be helped :) |
BitchMasterAug 23, 2009 11:42 AM
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| Blah episode. Cal is how the plot needs her to be, so I'm not too shocked or awed by any of her actions. Lizzie though, she bothered me again, but that just has to do with my distaste for her as a whole. I liked SM's explanation of the differences between all of the phantoms, admitting that Ein is nothing more than a puppet, calling Reiji a failure because of his control and desire to kill, and calling Drei unstable. Though it definitely astounds me that before Cal, he never once, in all of his research, thought to manipulate people instead of drugging and conditioning, since it seems he's done quite a bit of it throughout the course of the show. Otherwise, I'm getting tired of the high school setting. These tertiary characters are getting in the way of plot development...let's just have winter break or something to square all of them out of the way. What's her name will have to hang around of course but everyone else is worthless. |
noteDheroAug 23, 2009 5:01 PM
Blah episode. Cal is how the plot needs her to be, so I'm not too shocked or awed by any of her actions. Characters in general are how plot... no, the storymaker... wants them to be. Though it definitely astounds me that he never once, in all of his research, thought to manipulate people instead of drugging and conditioning, since it seems he's done quite a bit of it throughout the course of the show. He does just that with Drei. With her, it is pure manipulation. |
|
| There's a difference between a character being one way in one episode, and another the next for the sake of plot; and having a story where we witness the growth of a character. Cal is a case of the former. I thought I was clear in that thought: Before using Cal, it astounded me that he never thought to use pure manipulation, since it seems like he's done quite a bit of it throughout the course of the show. |
BitchMaster said: Yeah, that's why I said "by definition", she's a slut, but I never intended to use this word to insult her personality because unlike certain someone, I dont like using derogatory words such as "slut" lightly on a character just because they are 2-D. So please read my post carefully before making assumptions. Well with what you said before, I'll assume that you're talking about events that happened only in the game and not shown to us yet, because with only what I've said, she doesn't match the definition. Otherwise you might want to explain to real life victims of child abuse that they are sluts by definition even though you don't intend to use this word to insult their personality. :D Also, you must admit that the way this show is directed, they do want us to think that Cal is now a slutty kind of character. The forms, personality, the bgm(oaning), etc... All in all, this is fiction so: BitchMaster said: Well, please re-read my post again to see my point regarding this issue, but if it's your personal taste about girls with guns hafta have her mouth shut 24/7, it can't be helped :) You're right, it can't be helped, I watch animes for entertainment and emotions unless the show is truly intellectual which is rare. So yeah, I like silent type girlz with gunz assassins because of Noir, and I wanted to see more of that in Phantom, is there an issue? ;) And just to not discriminate dogs from cats: noteDhero said: There's a difference between a character being one way in one episode, and another the next for the sake of plot; and having a story where we witness the growth of a character. Cal is a case of the former. This is so true. |
AlexstratzAug 23, 2009 1:03 PM
There's a difference between a character being one way in one episode, and another the next for the sake of plot; and having a story where we witness the growth of a character. Cal is a case of the former. Showing character development from first hand ain't needed. Phantom used a different style for her. Half of chapter 3 revolves around showing how she changed, what brought to it and what are the results. Watcher/reader is left asking himself just how much did she turn into Drei and is left in tension as we don't know what she may do next. With chapter 3, which is also about the contrast between the Civilian World and Underworld, we don't know how much will Drei hurt the Civilian World. Just to what extent is she uncontrolable? In meantime, she continues to develop and we get a better picture of how her life was going these two years. Just showing her development then we would get a better picture of her mental status and it would be even easier to predict what she shall do next. I thought I was clear in that thought: Before using Cal, it astounded me that he never thought to use pure manipulation, since it seems like he's done quite a bit of it throughout the course of the show. Because he didn't need to. Ein was supposed to be a doll and the best way to control a doll are drugs and hypnosis. Zwei was needed to be second Ein, but with a small difference: Scyhte let him develop as he wants and didn't interfere with Claudia when she started pulling Zwei to herself (even tough he was aware of that). He was interested in what he would result. After all, what scientist doesn't experiment around? Intrigued by Zwei, who proved to be superior to Ein who was a doll, he concluded that something in his human nature must have been the reason why he was better. He concluded that it was the motivation and he decided to start a new experiment. So he finds a girl who was abondoned by Zwei and uses her emotional vunerability to install hatred into her and through manipulation he turned that hatred into her motivation, thus creating Drei. To leave that motivation intact, he didn't use anything else but manipulation. Brainwashing would remove her motivation (which was powered by memories) and drugs were not required as he already had her under control and her natural skills didn't need artificial power ups. Thus, it is not that he didn't get the idea of using pure manipulation, but the fact that he didn't need to. Zwei was just something he watched at and Ein was an assasin made on different principles for which other methods were more effective. Also, you must admit that the way this show is directed, they do want us to think that Cal is now a slutty kind of character. Actually, she is not a slutty type of a character, but an evil girl who likes to look like a badass action character. If she were the slutty type, her approach and methods would have been totally different. |
NayraelAug 23, 2009 1:17 PM
|
Alexstratz said: Well with what you said before, I'll assume that you're talking about events that happened only in the game and not shown to us yet, because with only what I've said, she doesn't match the definition. Otherwise you might want to explain to real life victims of child abuse that they are sluts by definition even though you don't intend to use this word to insult their personality. :D Yeah, my bad, I was talking about the game & the 2nd definition of "slut" based on the link you gave me. So yeah, I will call victims of child abuse "slut" if, and only if they fit the definition though I might use another way less derogatory if I ever have a chance to talk with them to avoid hurting them any further, or not talk about this issue at all. Not everything need to be talked in this world, is it? Also, you must admit that the way this show is directed, they do want us to think that Cal is now a slutty kind of character. The forms, personality, the bgm(oaning), etc... All in all, this is fiction so: Well, yeah, but that's the director's fault as well as the designers for doing so, if you talk about appearance & BGM. But oh well, like you said, this is fiction so WHY SO SERIOUS? Unless you wanna discuss more about fiction & directing issues... You're right, it can't be helped, I watch animes for entertainment and emotions unless the show is truly intellectual which is rare. So yeah, I like silent type girlz with gunz assassins because of Noir, and I wanted to see more of that in Phantom, is there an issue? ;) Nope, you have all the right to like what you like, the only issue is you directed you criticism on the wrong person, that's all ;) |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
| I'm the type that likes to see characters develop. It's more engaging that way for me. To see a character both act and look totally different from the previous episode pulls me out of the show, and therefore is a negative. It's clear that it is Phantom's style to do this: this is how they approached the time skip between one and two, but since they didn't do much (if anything) to show how Reiji came have his new attitude besides saying that Ein was his only source of happiness/humanity, it just came off as shallow to me. That's the precedent the show has set, so while I hope we see more of what happened to Cal, I doubt it. Going back to SM, we have already seen that he had other experiments in between Zwei and Drei. What was he doing for that year, year and a half? Moreover, since he's scientist, I think it's pretty hilarious that he never thought to use the simplest way to create these puppets: manipulation. That's begginer's psych, parenting 101, etc. About Cal being "slutty": I just think it just the production's over compensation for her initial character. They wanted to create a big impact, so they gave her DDs, a leather bustier, motorcycle, and music with a girl moaning in the background to signify that. It's speaks more of the show doing strange things to over-sexualize characters and situations for the audience. But then that's a problem with a lot of anime in general. |
| Ah well. Here we go again. noteDhero said: Blah episode. Cal is how the plot needs her to be, so I'm not too shocked or awed by any of her actions. Cal always had a vindictive streak, and she was betrayed and deserted, from her point of view. She's also been eager to enter the underworld, and she's proven quite skillful with weapons. Finally, she's exposed to SM, who - as we know - is excellent at manipulating people. Now, Cal finds Reiji who had been running away with someone else. This is quite a logical and consistent development in my book. If you disagree, give some explanations why not. Lizzie though, she bothered me again, but that just has to do with my distaste for her as a whole. Lizzie has been a constant throughout the entire story, she never changed, and she's consistent all the time. Otherwise, I'm getting tired of the high school setting. These tertiary characters are getting in the way of plot development...let's just have winter break or something to square all of them out of the way. What's her name will have to hang around of course but everyone else is worthless. Such amazing arrogance. You have no clue about the storyline whatsoever, yet you write nonsense like that. Then again, judging without justification is par for the course for your notes *shrug* I'm the type that likes to see characters develop. It's more engaging that way for me. To see a character both act and look totally different from the previous episode pulls me out of the show, and therefore is a negative. Okay. In which way did Cal act totally different from the previous episode? |
| I've gotta kinda agree with noteDhero, in his latest post. But on the other hand, it's still best assassin-related anime on market, and even if it's not a masterpiece, has it's flaws etc, show remains enjoyable. Although it's gonna drop from my 9 to 8 if ending won't be: a)everyone dies, 'cause I always admire scriptwriters with guts to kill main characters or b)ellen & reji live on together (it's the only logical ending imo if it has to be happy, builds up nice clamp - ellen & reji at first eps and last eps as well) |
 |
| It's more about what a poster earlier had said: if she knows about Ein, the she must have been informed about the situation the Reiji was in. We haven't seen crazy or angry Cal, so I can't speak on that. She was smart enough to concoct that plan with the money as soon as she met Reiji, so I assume that once she is aware even a little about Reiji's situation, then she wouldn't be so spiteful, and maybe even more understanding. It's more to the degree of Cal's actions versus SM's manipulations, since she clearly has the most free will of any Phantom. And Lizzie's "I'm a dog mentality" that gets trampled at every turn is what bothers me. She should learn to think more independently. She especially shouldn't be taking responsiblilty for something that is SM's project (Cal). To clarify, since I guess that sentence was still ambiguous, I'm talking about Cal's change between the recap episode and the last. Cal pointing a gun at Reiji with malicious intent is a change in character. |
noteDheroAug 23, 2009 2:33 PM
Going back to SM, we have already seen that he had other experiments in between Zwei and Drei. What was he doing for that year, year and a half? Moreover, since he's scientist, I think it's pretty hilarious that he never thought to use the simplest way to create these puppets: manipulation. That's begginer's psych, parenting 101, etc. Those experiments just staretd to be created when Scyhte rejoined Inferno and were not suitable for his current experiment like certain someone was. Ah well. Here we go again. You know, before this show ends I am seriously going to make a "Mentar vs noteDhero" picture XD Not that I complain, I love watching you two fight one another :D a)everyone dies, 'cause I always admire scriptwriters with guts to kill main I admire scriptwriters who know that killing all characters is as bad as killing none. Why must all be radical? It's more to the degree of Cal's actions versus SM's manipulations, since she clearly has the most free will of any Phantom. Actually, she does not. Scyhte and his manipulations are one of problems and the another... you will see soon. I would suggest to not judge too soon. Cal pointing a gun at Reiji with malicious intent is a change in character. Indeed, but a logical change of character. It is obvious even now why she is pointing a gun at him. If she didn't, then that would be bad character development (aka, sacrificed story interest so that they would have no conflict between one another and fans would be happier) considering current circumstances. Problems that happen in their relationship happened with very good reasons and actually make the story interesting (lets be honest here, is it more interesting if Reiji and her are enemies and they need to solve that or which may end in tragedy OR if they immediately become close again and then went with Ellen to have a happy life?) |
|
| Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't SM say that he had never even done research into (or even thought about) psychological manipulation? That's the astonishing thing. I don't think Ein or Zwei would never have gotten away with doing something as drastically off the Inferno plan as Cal without a good reason. It's the nature of the different means he had of controlling them that Cal is the way she is. I'll say again that, like whoever it was said before, Cal is at least a little aware of who Reiji is, and she is very aware of what Reiji was doing/has done, so I think it is a little far for her to be so totally vindictive. I'm not saying that she shouldn't want an explanation from Reiji, and that she shouldn't be a little angry, but that's not how things panned out. As for the story being more interesting if she and Reiji are enemies, I agree, but not over something so simple, and easily understandable as a house blowing up and Reiji rightly assuming Cal to be dead. SM had to have shakem the very core of the foundation in her trust of Reiji. I'm guessing he told her that Reiji knew Ein was the one who killed Lucy (was that her name?) and went forward from there, because that's the only thing that would really work. But for right now, her anger is disproportionate to the circumstances. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't SM say that he had never even done research into (or even thought about) psychological manipulation? That's the astonishing thing. Actually, he is a doctor of psychology and neurology. I don't think Ein or Zwei would never have gotten away with doing something as drastically off the Inferno plan as Cal without a good reason. It's the nature of the different means he had of controlling them that Cal is the way she is. While she is chaotic, she gets the job done and the slaughter she causes will install fear in others. While not so nice and secretive as others, she has her uses. Not to mention that she does just what Scyhte wants. Scyhte did want her to barge in and make a scene and Scyhte is quite good with handling negotiations. I'll say again that, like whoever it was said before, Cal is at least a little aware of who Reiji is, and she is very aware of what Reiji was doing/has done, so I think it is a little far for her to be so totally vindictive. I'm not saying that she shouldn't want an explanation from Reiji, and that she shouldn't be a little angry, but that's not how things panned out. The problem is in fact that there were a lot of lies around him. He lied to her about Bloodies being their enemy, never told her about Inferno, lied that Bloodies were the ones responsible for Judy's death and telling her that Judy is avenged (while in truth Bloodies were innocent and his employers were the oens to blame, along with the third enemy thus Judy was not avenged but he still took her money) and more then few other things. On the other hand, there is no absolute proof that he was honest with anything. And after so many lies are revealed, it becomes harder and harder to trust. Also, she believed that Reiji would return to apartment after some time to check for her corpse or remains (like she did) in order to confirm that this person, who was supposed to be very, very valuable to him, was actually dead. She waited a long time (more accurately, three days) and he didn't appear at all. It was like he dissapeared and didn't care about her like he made her believe. And then comes Scyhte and tells her that Reiji ran away from USA with Ellen. She came to a conclusion that she was abondoned by him for another girl. Scyhte probably also threw in few lies to make her even more pissed off. Now, the problem is that she lost her trust in Reiji. No matter what he said, she would think that it is just another lie or that he wants to get out of the situation nicely. Lies that he told to protect her or to make the situation look nicer turned against him now. And the love she once felt has been turned into hatred. So, the only way to regain her trust is to somehow prove her that he does care about her like he claimed he did. And it has to be an undoubtful proof, not some words. |
|
| That's nice that he has a PhD, but didn't he say that he hadn't done research until Cal came around? I'm glad that you are someone who thinks that Reiji did lie to Cal about Judy's death, and Ein. There has been much debate on that issue. Like I said though, Cal has been presented in a fashion that we are supposed to conclude that she is perceptive, manipulative, and a genius (also vindictive), so maybe this is a case of her letting her emotions getting the best of her and defaulting to scorn, but her failure to learn from her mistakes (ie, totally trusting some random stranger telling you what you want to hear and "pretending" [not so in the case of Reiji, but so in the case of SM] to care) makes her seem like none of those things except for vengeful and talented with weapons. The problem isn't her feelings, but the degree of them considering what we are shown to know as her character. She totally has the right to an explanation, and especially his lying to her about Judy's death. She doesn't really have a reason for not trying to understand him, or for trusting SM as blindly as she did Reiji. But there are still 5 episodes (4 if the last one is a recap) left for that to be explained. This is also a bit of a problem for a lot of characters: their inability to really think for themselves even though they are apart of this backstabbing environment, and accepting the most convenient "truth" given to them. |
noteDhero said: Blah episode. Cal is how the plot needs her to be, so I'm not too shocked or awed by any of her actions. Lizzie though, she bothered me again, but that just has to do with my distaste for her as a whole. I liked SM's explanation of the differences between all of the phantoms, admitting that Ein is nothing more than a puppet, calling Reiji a failure because of his control and desire to kill, and calling Drei unstable. Though it definitely astounds me that he never once, in all of his research, thought to manipulate people instead of drugging and conditioning, since it seems he's done quite a bit of it throughout the course of the show. Otherwise, I'm getting tired of the high school setting. These tertiary characters are getting in the way of plot development...let's just have winter break or something to square all of them out of the way. What's her name will have to hang around of course but everyone else is worthless. He didn't drug Cal. He just consistently told her how much Reiji didn't want to be with her and how he left her for another women...etc. I think the most SM did was refine her killing intent. |
| ^)^ DeathfireD ^)^ Anime Alliance P2P Network *OPEN FOR NEW MEMBERS* |
| I guess that sentence was very ambiguous...I'll go change it. |
| A cliffhanger....I want more. Good episode...can't wait for some confrontations...and possibly schoolmates finding out about them. |
saxophone said: A cliffhanger....I want more. Good episode...can't wait for some confrontations...and possibly schoolmates finding out about them. I'm hoping something interesting with Mio happens. |
     |
noteDhero said: I'm the type that likes to see characters develop. It's more engaging that way for me. To see a character both act and look totally different from the previous episode pulls me out of the show, and therefore is a negative. It's clear that it is Phantom's style to do this: this is how they approached the time skip between one and two, but since they didn't do much (if anything) to show how Reiji came have his new attitude besides saying that Ein was his only source of happiness/humanity, it just came off as shallow to me. That's the precedent the show has set, so while I hope we see more of what happened to Cal, I doubt it. No that is right but about Cal the notes of the game make more enough to explain her states although it is dissapointing that they not explain more about Reiji's past life and Cal's. noteDhero said: Going back to SM, we have already seen that he had other experiments in between Zwei and Drei. What was he doing for that year, year and a half? Moreover, since he's scientist, I think it's pretty hilarious that he never thought to use the simplest way to create these puppets: manipulation. That's begginer's psych, parenting 101, etc. Maybe he did try to do with Ein but was not successful with Reiji so he decided to do a manipulations of Cal through emotions this time instead of torture. noteDhero said: About Cal being "slutty": I just think it just the production's over compensation for her initial character. They wanted to create a big impact, so they gave her DDs, a leather bustier, motorcycle, and music with a girl moaning in the background to signify that. It's speaks more of the show doing strange things to over-sexualize characters and situations for the audience. But then that's a problem with a lot of anime in general. Indeed they had that in mind but you just though it more than I paid attention to it because I am just sick of these things being in most animes anyways. It was to show also that Scythe can make a girl into a woman but I think he conditioned her into what was most fitted her and that is motorcycles, showing her body (Judy's influences might have played somewhere in there) and the music is the desire to show the audience of wanting someone like Cal ( I would think it is desire because of the voice and imagination of the audience being with Cal, psych 101). Here is my attempt to discuss with you noteDhero about this. |
|
Alexstratz said: DAMN YOU PEDO-MASTER! What did you do to sweet Cal? From a genius cute girl she turned into a hot-headed slut. Seriously, I just hope Elen kills everyone one now. -_- And what's with the bgm music in this show? First we have the "f*ck me I'm famous" Reiji theme, then the "Melody" techno remix, and finally they decided to just add random woman moaning? Well I guess the last bgm suits new Cal's bitch attitude at least. Worried at where this show is going, I hope they make up in the next few episodes. HA,HA yeah those moaning made me go WTF!!!. Well we know why Cal has problems with Reiji but i don't like the slut attitude. Since she is just full of hatred and staff she might as well get killed by Ein. Of course that's not gone a happen but am just saying. Basically i understand why she is where she is and doing what she does but still i don't like it. Am also wondering if she really loved Reiji. I think it's more like she needed him instead of loving him for who he was. She lost the person that was helping her get threw life and got saved by a life on the streets from Reiji. Am thinking that she was crying in that burned house more about being alone and ending in some street corner getting anally raped by some guys, instead of "am sad am not gone a see his face again". The killing scene was really badly made. 15 guys shooting down in a room on her and not hitting her is stupid and especially showing us all those pullets flying around her. What, she is Superman "Faster than a speeding bullet"? Scyth Master chose a public place so he can laugh at Renji. If i was Reiji i would have at least pretend that i didn't care about the place and i was gone a kill him just so i can see that scared cowardly face of his. Remember the one he had on episode 10. Am also kind of wandering why exactly does he thinks Cal will be like his dog if she kills Reiji and what is he trying to accomplish. By the way if you guys notice the new OP it looks that the other phantoms Scythe Master trained are gone a get to work. But they are probably brainwashed like Ein used to be before Reiji. |
MonadAug 23, 2009 11:03 PM
Monad said: Overall thats wrong, but at first it could apply.Am also wondering if she really loved Reiji. I think it's more like she needed him instead of loving him for who he was. Cal like Reiji needed each other at first, Cal had no place to stay and Reiji wanted information about what happened. Thats were it started, they both did use each other at first. Cal also did try to be helpfull at first so reiji wouldn't throw her out I think, But over the time they spent together Cal grew feelings for Reiji, she worried about him, she care about him, And wanted to live her life with him. Cal worreid about Reiji when he got shot, and kept the pocket watch with her and played the tune over and over because Reiji gave it to her, she didn't need it but it reminded her Reiji and her love for him(Which funny enough you can relate that to the current Drei, as she keeps its as a reminded of her hate for Reiji I think) And Ultimately wanted to come into his Phatom world so she can be together with him and he wont have to feel the pain alone. Is more of an indication she cares and loves him than she needs him. Am thinking that she was crying in that burned house more about being alone and ending in some street corner getting anally raped by some guys, instead of "am sad am not gone a see his face again". I doubt it that it was more about being alone than not being with Reiji. Though she might be scared at the though of living by herself, her crying was because Reiji wasn't there! he didn't came back! Which is what she wanted, to see his face! again Well we know why Cal has problems with Reiji but i don't like the slut attitude. >.>... How is it a Slut additude... She is not sleeping around or anything. Drei simply doesn't care about anything and is hellbent on death and destruction. She isn't flirting with the enemy and trying to use her body to her advantage, she destroys what ever is in her way, Though she does play games its more childishly-evil than anything else. |
reptiliaAug 24, 2009 2:00 AM
reptilia said: Monad said: Overall thats wrong, but at first it could apply.Am also wondering if she really loved Reiji. I think it's more like she needed him instead of loving him for who he was. Cal like Reiji needed each other at first, Cal had no place to stay and Reiji wanted information about what happened. Thats were it started, they both did use each other at first. Cal also did try to be helpfull at first so reiji wouldn't throw her out I think, But over the time they spent together Cal grew feelings for Reiji, she worried about him, she care about him, And wanted to live her life with him. Cal worreid about Reiji when he got shot, and kept the pocket watch with her and played the tune over and over because Reiji gave it to her, she didn't need it but it reminded her Reiji and her love for him(Which funny enough you can relate that to the current Drei, as she keeps its as a reminded of her hate for Reiji I think) And Ultimately wanted to come into his Phatom world so she can be together with him and he wont have to feel the pain alone. Is more of an indication she cares and loves him than she needs him. Am thinking that she was crying in that burned house more about being alone and ending in some street corner getting anally raped by some guys, instead of "am sad am not gone a see his face again". I doubt it that it was more about being alone than not being with Reiji. Though she might be scared at the though of living by herself, her crying was because Reiji wasn't there! he didn't came back! Which is what she wanted, to see his face! again Well we know why Cal has problems with Reiji but i don't like the slut attitude. >.>... How is it a Slut additude... She is not sleeping around or anything. Drei simply doesn't care about anything and is hellbent on death and destruction. She isn't flirting with the enemy and trying to use her body to her advantage, she destroys what ever is in her way, Though she does play games its more childishly-evil than anything else. All I will say about the love is the BIGGEST hint was that at one point Reiji saw Cal naked and she was not feeling any shyness at all. I found a little pedo but it is another good proof that she did love since when you love someone you have no shame in exposing yourself to him. |
|
noteDhero said: It's more about what a poster earlier had said: if she knows about Ein, the she must have been informed about the situation the Reiji was in. Why? I see no logical correlation. Cal learned that Reiji fled with the former phantom. That's all. We haven't seen crazy or angry Cal, so I can't speak on that. Actually, we have. She showed her angry-vindictive side when she used the cash to order the death of not only whoever killed Judy, but also _everybody else involved_. She was smart enough to concoct that plan with the money as soon as she met Reiji, so I assume that once she is aware even a little about Reiji's situation, then she wouldn't be so spiteful, and maybe even more understanding. I see no logical connection here either, what does the first have to do with the second? To understand Cal, look at it from her perspective. She was in love with Reiji. She nearly lost it when his cheek was grazed by the shot. The thought of being separated from him was unbearable to her, and not because she feared not to make it on her own, but because of the thought of losing HIM. She might have had stunted growth due to malnutrition, but she was never the harmless little kid some people misunderstood her as. Then the kicker. They had vowed to be together. To BE together. Reiji promised to definitely come back to her (before he drove off to the fateful firefight with the Godoh Group). But he didn't (as far as she knew). He didn't even return later to look for her corpse. He simply disappeared. And now see the rest from her eyes: SM returned to explain the situation to her. That Reiji had fled and left her behind. He betrayed her and broke his promise, since according to SM, he was a liar and had betrayed others before. She even finds out that he fled with the former Phantom, right after she resurfaced for him. In other words, Cal was dumped for her. And in the end, she even finds him flirting with another girl on a park bench ^_^; Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Hatred caused by Reiji's betrayal. THIS is the key to understanding Cal. And there's more, but you'll learn about it in due time. For now, consider her a betrayed girl formerly in love, who then went down the slippery slope of the underworld, gradually tainted by the machinations of SM. It's more to the degree of Cal's actions versus SM's manipulations, since she clearly has the most free will of any Phantom. Agreed here. She's the least controlled and most impulsive phantom. And Lizzie's "I'm a dog mentality" that gets trampled at every turn is what bothers me. She should learn to think more independently. She especially shouldn't be taking responsiblilty for something that is SM's project (Cal). Lizzie is the one in charge of Inferno's japanese activities (you can tell because Shiga talked to her as the Inferno representative). The guy that Cal killed was one of her own subordinates. That Cal's recklessness was the cause for his death doesn't absolve her from her reponsibility, since it was HER operation. In fact, it's her "loyal, caring soldier" mentality which actually makes her likable to me. In the underworld, she's got a gruff exterior, but she's among the kindest and least selfish characters there. To clarify, since I guess that sentence was still ambiguous, I'm talking about Cal's change between the recap episode and the last. Cal pointing a gun at Reiji with malicious intent is a change in character. Naturally, it is. I can say this much, finding out what caused Cal's dramatic change is one of the main story threads of the final chapter. Some aspects are already visible (see above), but some more remain to be uncovered. |
Monad said: Am thinking that she was crying in that burned house more about being alone and ending in some street corner getting anally raped by some guys, instead of "am sad am not gone a see his face again". The killing scene was really badly made. 15 guys shooting down in a room on her and not hitting her is stupid and especially showing us all those pullets flying around her. What, she is Superman "Faster than a speeding bullet"? "Anally raped", please reconsider your choice of words, that's pretty offending & not all people on this board need to know such materials, you may be fine with it or it's your own hobby, but please consider other people's feelings, especially when you're in a forum. That's MINIMUM courtesy, and I hope you at least have an ounce of it. About Cal being Superman;first of all, please change it to Superwoman. Secondly, you already watched two such GODLY beings before her, yet that amazed me that your "lips" are "tight" when they went SPARTAAAA & now this storm of criticism? Talk about being prejudiced LOL. And all this @#$* is mainly because of appearance matter, the others can do whatever they want, no big deal up til now, but IF those stuffs are done by Cal, she's gonna get flamed. Wouldnt you yourself hate to be judged on your appearance, being called a f@ggot when you're not? And seriously, there will be more of those Superman stuffs & of course more Cal, so time for you to drop it now, guys. Otherwise, if you hate something and still watching, either you are a bunch of hypocrites or masochists, don't you think so? |
If he's not with us, he's AGAINST us!!! |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 26 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )LadyOrihime - Sep 24, 2009 |
628 |
by __FK__
»»
Apr 15, 1:49 PM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 16 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )tsubasalover - Jul 16, 2009 |
145 |
by defaulticus
»»
Mar 23, 2:46 PM |
|
Poll: » Phantom Requiem for the Phantom Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Mikiyo - Apr 3, 2009 |
171 |
by defaulticus
»»
Mar 17, 3:51 PM |
|
» Phantom: Requiem for the phantom. Visual Novel endings.Jimmy2233 - Sep 26, 2013 |
5 |
by ALCYON3US
»»
Feb 9, 12:30 PM |
|
Poll: » Phantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ Episode 5 Discussion ( 1 2 )ckam - Jul 20, 2009 |
71 |
by bubba460z
»»
Dec 17, 2023 9:13 PM |