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Poll: Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 7 Discussion


Aug 16, 2009 4:41 AM

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MRLX69 said:
CUNTDESTROYER666 said:
What the fuck is the point of this show?

THIS.
Having not read the vn, I have NO clue what's going on and very tempted to drop it.


Beatrice and Battler are playing a game against each other. Battler tries to prove that everything can be explained without magic. Beatrice tries to prove that it's impossible without magic. Episode 7 was just an introduction to the meta-world (the world where time freezes and everything goes gray). The next episode will start their first real battle.
Modified by LunarEmerald, Aug 16, 2009 4:56 AM
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:03 AM

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slayer545__ said:
Dark_Requiem said:
noteDhero said:
And that's why I'm so intrigued at what could possibly happen that would make me believe otherwise.


HAHA I guess that's why your gonna have to wait ;)

(Though EP2 is my favorite one since it's probably the hardest to solve besides maybe EP4)

Solve what. As far as I see it it's witche VS Battler and who make who believe. Battler believes Beatrice wins, she fails then it might be bad for her.


I'm talking about from our perspective for how to solve the mysteries (not just waiting for Battler to solve them himself).
 
Aug 16, 2009 12:24 PM

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Fabrice said:
Breatrice looked weird in school uniform. <.<


That's what you call Hot.
 
Aug 16, 2009 1:49 PM

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canephalanx said:
Fabrice said:
Breatrice looked weird in school uniform. <.<


That's what you call Hot.


 
Aug 16, 2009 2:59 PM

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she looks like a prostitute
 
Aug 16, 2009 3:27 PM

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slayer545__ said:
You want me to solve it for you?
Here: the murders give off power to the witche and manipulation also such the whole mirror thing.
Once Beatrice conquers Battler, she will have no opposition and her powers will be stronger but right now her powers are I would say at 80%.


My point is the murders gived her power because witches are on the devil's side.
Bernkastel is another example but she decided to convert in not being a witch at the end but that might be too late.

My opinions.


Awww but that's a anti-mystery perspective, I'm anti-Fantasy ;)

Besides I have some theories for the murders
 
 
Aug 16, 2009 7:44 PM

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Hehehe, I'm back. Long thread is long.

Anyway, at this point I'm pretty much just watching the anime to see my favorite parts animated. The characters are going to be card boarded and the scenes are rushed. I'm not expecting it to be nearly as good anymore. The VN has many. many quirks that are extremely hard, or even impossible, to really put into an anime. It's just fun to watch the awesome scenes animated. Iit really is terrible as your only source to solve the mysteries of Umineko. I think watching the anime would be more enjoyable for a VN reader.

As for Anti-fantasy, I think a major part of it being believable is that it is much easier to disprove that a scene didn't happen as it was presented, or didn't happen at all, when it is simply text. When you actually see it happen with your own eyes it's hard to say "that's not what actually happened." I think you'll agree with me on this. I've been trying to think from the perspective of someone that has only watched the anime and I agree with you on a lot of things you've said.

DEEN has had to skip so many things. If they really made the anime full length it would be easily as long as Monster. And the pace would about the same for the first few games, though it would get faster quite quickly in the later games. I'd say the largest thing DEEN has skipped, to include all of the scenes and dialogue, is the inner thoughts of the characters, which is a major, major, major part of their characterization. Half, or more, of the text in the games is thought dialogue. How much of the anime has been that? Oh yeah, NONE.

noteDhero said:
To me a good mystery is where there is a solid, straightforward set up with good/suspicious characters, and you go along trying to work out what is actually presented into a conclusion.

That's the description of a standard, regular mystery. But Umineko is most certainly not a standard, regular mystery. Ryukishi07 has said it himself several times, in fact. Umineko comes from a very different angle then most mysteries do. Some might not like this different eccentric angle.

Oh, and about solving the first mysteries. They eventually go back over all the murders of the previous games and Battler tries to solve them again. Including the murders of the first game.
 
Aug 16, 2009 7:52 PM

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Something an anime only watcher on SA posted.

Not really a spoiler since you can come to this conclusion on your own but I'll put in a spoilertag just in case.



I'm impressed.
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:18 PM

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Here is the thing with that analysis: Who or where is this unreliable narration coming from? If I were presented with someone that is a narrator that I'm led to mistrust, then that's one thing that is totally fine, and actually a great part of literature and storytelling.

It's not here in Umineko. I'm seeing two things: Battler being the narrator (but since he's anti-witches, that can't be it) and an omniscient narrator/perspective that has no input on the story except to present what happens.

It's a good explanation though, but as I've said a few times before, it doesn't explain the butterflies. I hate to keep saying it, but it just doesn't. Especially in this case because we see these butterflies when Maria's eyes are closed and it's just Beatrice.

These butterflies aren't just something that the characters witness, and a manifestation of Beatrice's powers, they are almost an indicator to the audience in the amount of focus that they demand separate from their function in the show. That needs to be explained.
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:29 PM

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The narrator for that scene was obviously Beatrice. Battler wasn't around and Maria had her eyes closed. There is no omnipresent narrative. Just because you don't see it being directly through their eyes (first person) doesn't mean it isn't being interpreted by that character.
Modified by LunarEmerald, Aug 16, 2009 8:34 PM
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:33 PM

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Weird process of elimination doesn't make her the narrator. We are only presented with the facts from an omniscient narrator (the director) and Battler (in the first episode).

edit: I keep forgetting that this is a game board. That does complicate things that I've said relative to this "episode," but not the real murders.
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:35 PM

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noteDhero said:
Weird process of elimination doesn't make her the narrator. We are only presented with the facts from an omniscient narrator (the director) and Battler (in the first episode).


Higurashi spoilers

 
Aug 16, 2009 8:39 PM

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I don't remember this scene clearly enough to debate it. But in general, the narration (or storytelling) is not normally something that switches between characters without some indication from actual, vocal narration. You're talking more about perspective, and I'm talking about narration and storytelling. But even then, I don't think that that was solely Beatrice's perspective.

Oh yea, and I edited my previous post to add something else.
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:42 PM

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Well.. as I said before.. we don't know the real answers so we can't say for certain that it was her narrative or not. If it was then you can say that there was no magic and we just saw it interpreted as such. If it wasn't then it was real magic. Maria having to close her eyes makes it lean toward the former though.

An anti-fantasy or anti-mystery stance.
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:45 PM
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noteDhero said:
Weird process of elimination doesn't make her the narrator. We are only presented with the facts from an omniscient narrator (the director) and Battler (in the first episode).

edit: I keep forgetting that this is a game board. That does complicate things that I've said relative to this "episode," but not the real murders.


Actually, in later arcs the first arc is effectively treated as a game board as well (in the sense that so-and-so rule applies to all existing game boards, etc.). Even though the game wasn't fully acknowledged until after that arc had finished.

Higurashi is also portrayed in the same fashion (as a board game between Bernkastel and another witch that was mentioned in anime episode 5), even though it's popularly believed that Bern was born during the course of that game and not before it. It's oddly complicated.
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:53 PM

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MarthX said:
Well.. as I said before.. we don't know the real answers so we can't say for certain that it was her narrative or not. If it was then you can say that there was no magic and we just saw it interpreted as such. If it wasn't then it was real magic. Maria having to close her eyes makes it lean toward the former though.

An anti-fantasy or anti-mystery stance.


I feel like you're misunderstanding me. I'm not really talking about perspective, as in who's seeing what. I'm talking about narrative as in who is the teller of this story. So far, the only person outside of the default omniscient, unobtrusive narrator is Battler, who in the first episode talks directly to the viewer and introduces all of the characters.

I guess maybe a case could be made later on for Bernkastel to be the narrator since she is the only other character to seemingly break the fourth wall (which was a very awkward moment that needs to be fleshed out/explained more), but I don't think that that puts any mistrust in anything that I've seen.

JackFrost said:


Actually, in later arcs the first arc is effectively treated as a game board as well (in the sense that so-and-so rule applies to all existing game boards, etc.). Even though the game wasn't fully acknowledged until after that arc had finished.

Higurashi is also portrayed in the same fashion (as a board game between Bernkastel and another witch that was mentioned in anime episode 5), even though it's popularly believed that Bern was born during the course of that game and not before it. It's oddly complicated.


From what it sounds like in what you've said with Higurashi, something was omitted that didn't really serve a purpose in the overall point of the show, and in that case, it leads me to believe that there is a lot of extraneous stuff that only 20/20 could omit from Umineko.

It really is just reeking of over-complicated storytelling now. Over-complication born of a bad attempt at creating a mystery.
 
Aug 16, 2009 8:59 PM
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The problem is we haven't officially been given any guidelines as to how to approach this show without having to disregard nearly everything we've seen. Which is why I'm hoping the next episode will help remedy this (at the pace we're going, anyway), assuming the anime can pull it off right. Otherwise, you're right, it seems like an overly complicated mess.
 
Aug 16, 2009 9:06 PM

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And I guess that's another thing that bothers me: it's the job of the director to guide the viewer on how the show should be approached. Maybe I don't get what you're trying to say, but characters shouldn't have to say "Don't pay attention to this, this is what's important.'' That's stuff that should be approached long before you actually start animating anything.
 
Aug 16, 2009 9:35 PM
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In this case that's not really the anime's fault, but the VN's for arranging the plot this way. Because what I'm referring to couldn't have been presented until after Battler and Beatrice had established the whole meta-world game in the first place.

And ordinarily you're right, the characters shouldn't have to say this kind of stuff explicitly, but in Umineko's case (with the whole concept of the meta-world and the VNs being a very explicit parody of the mystery novel genre- see the whole discussion about perspective, narrative, etc.), it's actually necessary for them to. I think it's why it doesn't translate as well to an anime as Higurashi would.
 
Aug 16, 2009 9:42 PM

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Well, my post two up about being over-complicated was directed squarely at the VN. Then there's my problem with the choice to produce something so complicated before it's finished which lies squarely on DEEN. Then there is the fact that the show is just poorly directed on nearly every level. These are systematic problems on every level that isn't the fault of any one person. It's like the perfect storm.

This is the first that I'm hearing that the show is a parody. Interesting.
 
Aug 16, 2009 9:47 PM

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I have read around that Ryukishi has said Umineko is the worst kind of mystery novel. Citation needed, but I assume that if it's true, it means it may be breaking one of the 10 laws of these stories (like maybe showing the thoughts of a culprit).

Though not everything has been answered or clarified, When they Cry 3 is over. So the anime will be technically adapting something that's finished, Umineko no naku koro ni.
 
Aug 16, 2009 9:54 PM

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noteDhero said:
This is the first that I'm hearing that the show is a parody. Interesting.

No, there are some parodies here and there for comedic relief but the show ifself is serious.
 
Aug 16, 2009 10:04 PM
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I meant parody more in the satirical sense, not the humorous one. Because some of the elements that pop up later in the series definitely mock the mystery novel genre/take it to rather ridiculous proportions.

OmegaDenmad said:
I have read around that Ryukishi has said Umineko is the worst kind of mystery novel. Citation needed, but I assume that if it's true, it means it may be breaking one of the 10 laws of these stories (like maybe showing the thoughts of a culprit).


...I'd like to respond to this in light of EP5, but I probably shouldn't. It really is the worst though.
 
Aug 16, 2009 10:07 PM
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It's more like metafiction, actually. Not necessarily parody.
 
Aug 17, 2009 4:46 AM

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Personally I'm glad Umineko isn't your standard mystery novel. I rather have it liven things up by making it different.
 
Aug 17, 2009 4:57 AM

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Well, my post two up about being over-complicated was directed squarely at the VN. Then there's my problem with the choice to produce something so complicated before it's finished which lies squarely on DEEN. Then there is the fact that the show is just poorly directed on nearly every level. These are systematic problems on every level that isn't the fault of any one person. It's like the perfect storm.

This is the first that I'm hearing that the show is a parody. Interesting.

You haven't played the VN, though, have you?

I don't see what is overcomplicated with it; but then I do not think things can get over-complicated in the first place.

And yeah, the directing is really subpar, even moreso from the viewpoint of adaption (again). The narrator in the VN, whenever it is not explicit/implicit it is some specific angle we get (it slides very smoothly from first person to third person), is not exactly a neutral observer, but can wax quite lemony, satiric or emotionally involved. For example: The first tea party is told from a purportedly neutral angle; but it openly belittles Battler for being a weak being unable to appreciate the grandness of Beatrice. There is one very memorable scene from episode four which is absolutely insanely satirical (of power levels, loser flags and ridiculous boxing physics).

None of this is at all carried over in the directing. Sure, it's hard, but who cares? Sucks to be Kon :<

Also, regarding you seeing it all as a distraction; why not view it as two (or more) stories? One about who really commits all the murders on Rokkenjima, and one about... whatever you think it is distracting it all about. Because Umineko is quite fond of layering stories upon eachother (and gets ever the fonder).

OmegaDenmad said:
I have read around that Ryukishi has said Umineko is the worst kind of mystery novel. Citation needed, but I assume that if it's true, it means it may be breaking one of the 10 laws of these stories (like maybe showing the thoughts of a culprit).

Though not everything has been answered or clarified, When they Cry 3 is over. So the anime will be technically adapting something that's finished, Umineko no naku koro ni.


Yeah, he tells us (presumably in the voice of Beatrice) as much in the foreword of/introduction to episode one. Witch Hunt provides.

tasbine said:
It's more like metafiction, actually. Not necessarily parody.

Yes. This.

It is a mystery about mysteries.
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Aug 17, 2009 5:42 AM

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tasbine said:
It's more like metafiction, actually. Not necessarily parody.

More like mindfuck.

 
Aug 17, 2009 6:28 AM

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I think someone already said it, but I'll say it again. At this point in the VNs Anti-mystery and Anti-fantasy perspectives DID NOT EXIST yet. The two sides until, I think, the end of episode 3 were something like unsolvable or solvable.

The side that believes magic really does not exist, did not exist, at this point in Umineko. It's rather funny to watch all of you argue about Anti-mystery and Anti-fantasy at this point in the anime when the anime watchers shouldn't even know those two sides exist.
 
Aug 17, 2009 7:55 AM

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Kaiserpingvin said:

You haven't played the VN, though, have you?

I don't see what is overcomplicated with it; but then I do not think things can get over-complicated in the first place.

And yeah, the directing is really subpar, even moreso from the viewpoint of adaption (again). The narrator in the VN, whenever it is not explicit/implicit it is some specific angle we get (it slides very smoothly from first person to third person), is not exactly a neutral observer, but can wax quite lemony, satiric or emotionally involved. For example: The first tea party is told from a purportedly neutral angle; but it openly belittles Battler for being a weak being unable to appreciate the grandness of Beatrice. There is one very memorable scene from episode four which is absolutely insanely satirical (of power levels, loser flags and ridiculous boxing physics).

None of this is at all carried over in the directing. Sure, it's hard, but who cares? Sucks to be Kon :<

Also, regarding you seeing it all as a distraction; why not view it as two (or more) stories? One about who really commits all the murders on Rokkenjima, and one about... whatever you think it is distracting it all about. Because Umineko is quite fond of layering stories upon eachother (and gets ever the fonder).


No, I haven't read the VN. But to put it simply, because there is no focus leads me to think that the story is overcomplicated. And to know that even more varied information was left out of both this and Higurashi (almost to the betterment of the ladder) makes me think that the creator just likes having a crock pot of ideas and seeing what comes out. There are writers like this who overwrite and under-edit. Some people like being given information about the kitchen and the sink when they are reading something...others think it's extraneous. It's been a thought of mine for a while (especially when I hear that so much has been cut out), but I'm sure that by the end of answer arcs there will be a lot of obvious information that is just not important to the story and could have been taken out.

That's the hindsight thing I was talking about.

Regarding the murders, I've already stated that my feeling is that witches are apart of the overarching story of the Naku Koro Ni series, so to be arguing about their existence is a bit of a wild goose chase, and threatens to undermine a lot of what's already been established in the series and with Bernkastel.
 
Aug 17, 2009 8:24 AM

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Zedrane said:
I think someone already said it, but I'll say it again. At this point in the VNs Anti-mystery and Anti-fantasy perspectives DID NOT EXIST yet. The two sides until, I think, the end of episode 3 were something like unsolvable or solvable.

The side that believes magic really does not exist, did not exist, at this point in Umineko. It's rather funny to watch all of you argue about Anti-mystery and Anti-fantasy at this point in the anime when the anime watchers shouldn't even know those two sides exist.
I concluded as much as that there were those two sides as early as the first tea party. :/

Sure, my ideas then didn't look like my ideas now, but I did conclude as much. It's not that hard.

noteDhero said:
No, I haven't read the VN. But to put it simply, because there is no focus leads me to think that the story is overcomplicated. And to know that even more varied information was left out of both this and Higurashi (almost to the betterment of the ladder) makes me think that the creator just likes having a crock pot of ideas and seeing what comes out. There are writers like this who overwrite and under-edit. Some people like being given information about the kitchen and the sink when they are reading something...others think it's extraneous. It's been a thought of mine for a while (especially when I hear that so much has been cut out), but I'm sure that by the end of answer arcs there will be a lot of obvious information that is just not important to the story and could have been taken out.

That's the hindsight thing I was talking about.

Regarding the murders, I've already stated that my feeling is that witches are apart of the overarching story of the Naku Koro Ni series, so to be arguing about their existence is a bit of a wild goose chase, and threatens to undermine a lot of what's already been established in the series and with Bernkastel.

What is important to the story? What is not? While I agree that economy of plot is important - that plot elements should be used for an effect, and not just be there - there are frankly no real such elements in Umineko as far as I can recall. While a lot is unnecessary to the final solution - most undoubtedly - that is the same for all mystery novels, ever, simply because if exactly everything was there for the purpose of the mystery, it would be no real challenge to conclude the solution from the onset. Besides, there are subplots to take care of, to make you care for the characters (well, hopefully), to make you understand them (well, hopefully), to build mood and so on.

To reduce narrative art to mere narrative is missing the art thing :v

And of course, we haven't seen the solution yet. There's still three games left to be published. So we don't really know if it is as wasteful as that or not.

Furthermore, many of the things they cut were intrinisically relevant to the theme of the story. That things were told from very subjective viewpoints, and that the omniscient narrator isn't a neutral, perfect observer is directly relevant to the theme of the whole thing.

Overwriting is really a vague term. When have you overwritten? Why should the goal of narrative art be exactly narrative, in a rigid five-act fashion? That is dangerously narrow, I think. Umineko is rather patently obvious metafiction - it is about the structure of fiction. Particularly, of course, mystery. The point of it is, on at least one level, investigate mystery in itself, not investigate the mystery present.


But that's all from my distaste of stressing subject matter. I think any subject matter can work, given a well enough done portrayal of it. Structure of plot is more important than what the plot is, imo.
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Aug 17, 2009 8:29 AM

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They're called red herrings.

Ryukishi07 has said in a interview that the anime will have less hints but it will also have less false leads. Whether something taken out is important or just another red herring is unknown until we know the answers.
 
Aug 17, 2009 9:13 AM

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Kaiserpingvin said:

What is important to the story? What is not? While I agree that economy of plot is important - that plot elements should be used for an effect, and not just be there - there are frankly no real such elements in Umineko as far as I can recall. While a lot is unnecessary to the final solution - most undoubtedly - that is the same for all mystery novels, ever, simply because if exactly everything was there for the purpose of the mystery, it would be no real challenge to conclude the solution from the onset. Besides, there are subplots to take care of, to make you care for the characters (well, hopefully), to make you understand them (well, hopefully), to build mood and so on.

To reduce narrative art to mere narrative is missing the art thing :v

And of course, we haven't seen the solution yet. There's still three games left to be published. So we don't really know if it is as wasteful as that or not.

Furthermore, many of the things they cut were intrinisically relevant to the theme of the story. That things were told from very subjective viewpoints, and that the omniscient narrator isn't a neutral, perfect observer is directly relevant to the theme of the whole thing.

Overwriting is really a vague term. When have you overwritten? Why should the goal of narrative art be exactly narrative, in a rigid five-act fashion? That is dangerously narrow, I think. Umineko is rather patently obvious metafiction - it is about the structure of fiction. Particularly, of course, mystery. The point of it is, on at least one level, investigate mystery in itself, not investigate the mystery present.


But that's all from my distaste of stressing subject matter. I think any subject matter can work, given a well enough done portrayal of it. Structure of plot is more important than what the plot is, imo.


That's precisely why I say that it's a mistake to do the show before the VN was finished. We don't know what is vital to the story, what is good coloring for characters and audience, and what is just plain not needed. You're taking everything I say to the extreme. I'm saying that there seems to be a lot that is wholly unnecessary to the plot as what seems to have been the case in Higurashi. I'm not talking about reducing the narrative to a bare bones plot. I'm talking about having an editor who challenges to keep focus.

Speaking about the things in Umineko that were cut that are inextricable from the story, that is a mistake on the part of the director since that is already there in the VNs. I'm only speaking generally since I'm not familiar with them. Though it has been quite apparent in these discussion that that is the case. People being mad because mackerel wasn't mentioned...sorry, I don't get it, time is better spent elsewhere.

Overwriting is when the writer gets so caught up in the world of what he/she is writing that they loose focus of story by giving lots of useless details at the expense of cohesion. If you're familiar with Harry Potter, I'll point to the whole giant subplot with Hagrid as perhaps the most useless information of the series that didn't do much of anything. Some people would also count the deathly hallows, but that's another argument to make. This is always hardest in mysteries to deal with, especially if the writer doesn't have much of a plan from the beginning, but even then, there are subplots created, and during the process you just realize that you weren't going anywhere with it, or the story evolved in a different direction.

That's what this feels like. That there are a bunch of ideas, and rather than it being a well constructed mystery, it's a path that just leads somewhere through the train of thoughts of the creator. An indicator of that is that information seems to pile on instead of interconnecting with one another.
 
Aug 17, 2009 10:16 AM

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noteDhero said:

That's what this feels like. That there are a bunch of ideas, and rather than it being a well constructed mystery, it's a path that just leads somewhere through the train of thoughts of the creator. An indicator of that is that information seems to pile on instead of interconnecting with one another.

Sigh, that last line misses the entire way that the Umineko storyline is connected. It's SUPPOSED to seem to pile on and not connect too much. It's supposed to ask almost nothing but questions for the first four games.

The point of the first four games is to pile up lots of questions of and mysteries. The answer arcs stop piling on information and questions and get interconnecting everything. Some may seem un-connected or overwriting, but I don't believe that they are. I might be proven wrong when the answer arcs come out though. But we really have no idea since thee answers arcs aren't out yet. We don't really know what's important.

I don't think your ever going to really like Umineko. I've seen what you've written about what you thinks good and what you like before. Umineko simply doesn't work like that. The anime is a poor adaption of something you wouldn't like in it's original format.
Modified by DrZed, Aug 17, 2009 10:22 AM
 
Aug 17, 2009 10:57 AM

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Kind of misses the whole point of it being a mindfuck. Umineko isn't going to hold your hand to help you understand. Instead it's going to purposely confuse you. You thinking it's a mess, unsure what's going on, not sure what to trust etc. proves that it's doing what it was meant to do. Umineko is a game within a game. Not only is a game between Beatrice and Battler, it's also a game between the author and you. The series isn't going to point out the clues to give you ground to work on. Instead you have to find the clues on your own. It's a thinking series. If you turn your brain off and just accept everything then you will be at the mercy of the author.
 
Aug 17, 2009 11:01 AM

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Hmm...how should I put this?
I don't really care about the source so much except that it is the basis of the anime. Anime and VNs are two totally different medium, so in the process of adapting a source material you have to know what you're working with in order to get the spirit of the work across. This is a big reason that I have a problem with a lot of people who want 1:1 transfers because it just rarely works out well that way. There is an art to adapting material in the same way that there is to creating something new.

In the case of Higurashi, it sounds like it is structurally (with the question and answer arcs, and the way it all plays out withing them) similar to Umineko. The difference is that I feel like Higurashi did pile on a lot, but it also allowed the viewer to draw connections between repeats. This is most shown with the medical center than anything else, and Rika's presence continuing to become more important, and a little about the dam.

This seems to be less apparent in Umineko, where the only things really connecting broadly through the games are all things having to do with Beatrice, even though the mystery is supposed to be whether the story is a mystery or not.

I want to make this clear though. I felt blah about Higurashi by the end of the first season and decided to watch Kai only to finish the story, and was pleasantly surprised by what the show had to say, and how good of a character Rika ended up being despite the Nippahs. It's because of this (and the community as I have previously stated) that I will stick with Umineko. Maybe it's because Higurashi was a good adaptation of source material that I wouldn't care for in its origin, and Umineko is not comparatively. I, as everyone else, won't totally know that answer until all of the answer arcs are out.

@MarthX
It's funny that you say that because I don't think that I've turned my brain off at all. I'm looking at the show from my prespective and drawing my own conclusions. You clearly disagree with those conclusions (for various reasons), and that's fine. Just because my point of view is different doesn't mean that I'm not using my brain. I think it's clear, more than anything, that I've given this show a lot of thought after each episode.
Modified by noteDhero, Aug 17, 2009 11:06 AM
 
Aug 17, 2009 12:24 PM
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noteDhero said:
This seems to be less apparent in Umineko, where the only things really connecting broadly through the games are all things having to do with Beatrice, even though the mystery is supposed to be whether the story is a mystery or not.


I find it interesting you say that, because I found more things in common between the first four arcs of Umineko than I did in the first six arcs of Higurashi. This might be in part because of the meta world, which allows subsequent arcs to reference previous arcs and helps maintain a coherent thread between arcs, but there are connecting threads besides Beatrice that exist, and discovering what they are is part of the key to solving the bigger mysteries.
 
Aug 17, 2009 12:36 PM

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It's ridiculous to be judging Umineko off 7 episodes. Umineko has a lot hell of more more continuity in the first 7 episodes than Higurashi did.

Higurashi's continuity wasn't really apparent until Minagoroshi, the 7th arc, the 6th episode of season two. Episode 32 of the series as a whole.
 
Aug 17, 2009 1:35 PM

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sarroush said:
It was a good episode. But in all honesty...


Lol! I was concerned about that aswell XD
 
Aug 17, 2009 2:24 PM

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Veru said:
she looks like a prostitute


LOL! ;) I thought she looked cute
- Noblesse Oblige -

And I'm saying a prayer for the desperate heart's tonight

 
Aug 17, 2009 2:52 PM

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Sigyn said:
Veru said:
she looks like a prostitute


LOL! ;) I thought she looked cute

she still looks like a whore

 
Aug 17, 2009 4:06 PM

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Belum_Nabum said:
Sigyn said:
Veru said:
she looks like a prostitute


LOL! ;) I thought she looked cute

she still looks like a whore


I'd hit it
じーーーーーーーーーーーーーーーっ
 
Aug 17, 2009 5:33 PM

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paskyx said:
Belum_Nabum said:
Sigyn said:
Veru said:
she looks like a prostitute


LOL! ;) I thought she looked cute

she still looks like a whore


I'd hit it

I wish I would but I have my Goddess Aphrodite! :P

 
Aug 18, 2009 6:57 AM

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I don't get it but who cares when there's badass Beatrice.
 
Aug 19, 2009 3:27 AM
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Wasn't as entertaining as some others nor interesting.
 
Aug 19, 2009 5:06 AM

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Good stuff. Roll on Episode 8!
 
Aug 24, 2009 1:21 AM

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Can you say more anti-mystery piling up?
I'm looking forward to seeing how 90% of everything in this episode was also a lie.
Oh, and unsurprisingly, that appears to be what the debate in most of the thread has been so far.

Also, Rosa is a terrible mother. She needs counseling, pronte.

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
Aug 24, 2009 3:51 AM

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ukonkivi said:
Can you say more anti-mystery piling up?
I'm looking forward to seeing how 90% of everything in this episode was also a lie.
Oh, and unsurprisingly, that appears to be what the debate in most of the thread has been so far.

Also, Rosa is a terrible mother. She needs counseling, pronte.

OH YEAH! Rosa needs someone to bitch slap her about not physically assaulting her own daughter.
+2 for your Rosa comment.

 
Aug 24, 2009 7:32 AM

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Zilpzalp said:
Nope. Maris is a bad daughter.

Rosa needs to get a penny everytime she slaps her daughter for being a fucking idiot who destroys the whole series, is annoying as hell and annoying as hell.

That still does not justify of Rosa's actions. I would proceed differently than using physical violence. Especially if Mari has a mental problem.

 
Aug 24, 2009 8:09 AM

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Zilpzalp said:
is annoying as hell and annoying as hell.

NO U.

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