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Poll: Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 7 Discussion


Aug 13, 2009 8:39 PM

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noteDhero said:
Another question:
Everyone familiar with the VNs seem to point that there will be information that shows that anti-fantasy is a strong possiblity...even though we know that Beatrice's magic gets stronger when more people believe in her, and in this game she has all of the adult children on her side, plus the servants (minus Shannon perhaps), Kinzo, and Maria. Won't this game be a bust because of that? Perhaps that's more of a rhetorical question.


No one says the game has to be fair. I mean Battler has Bernkastel "The Witch of Miracles" on his side.

mangastar said:
Okay, having not read the manga, played the video games, or seen the anime which is similar to this, I'm pretty confused. What I gather is, Beatrice is showing Battler a different version of what happened originally on the island that didn't happen? And I still haven't figured out, did he and the other three die at the end of episode 5? @.@ I have a feeling Beatrice wouldn't kill Maria, but I'm at a loss to what exactly is going on, having no background knowledge.


1. She's showing a new gameboard since Battler didn't accept her the 1st time (So if he didn't believe with the 1st game board why would he believe the same gameboard a second time. Instead she is making the game board MUCH harder)

2. The other 4 did die at episode 5. Basically explanation says,..... Missing: Body parts were torn to unrecognizable pieces (police used dental record to confirm a piece of Maria's jaw so she at least is assuredly dead)
 
Aug 13, 2009 8:39 PM

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freaking awesome , still i dun have a creepy feeling like i did in the first chapter

Awesome Sig by Lailide
 
Aug 13, 2009 8:41 PM

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MarthX said:
This episode was a lot better than I expected it to be when I saw the preview and knew how much it would be rushed. Now the painful wait for 8 begins. It will be the first real test of this adaption.


wow really cant wait but this so random but beatrice is gorgeous and her outfield she had on was hot

5/5
 
Aug 13, 2009 8:46 PM

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mangastar said:
Okay, having not read the manga, played the video games, or seen the anime which is similar to this, I'm pretty confused. What I gather is, Beatrice is showing Battler a different version of what happened originally on the island that didn't happen? And I still haven't figured out, did he and the other three die at the end of episode 5? @.@ I have a feeling Beatrice wouldn't kill Maria, but I'm at a loss to what exactly is going on, having no background knowledge.

At the end of the first arc, everyone dies (include Battler, Maria, Jessica, George and NOONE IS RESURRECTED). The second part of ep 5 happens in the meta-world, not the real world. There Battler and Beatrice plays a game to decide whether the murders are committed by the witch, and the real world (Rokkenjima in October 4th and 5th) is their gameboarc. And the 1st game is end, now a new game begins, meanwhile a new (real) world.
 
Aug 13, 2009 8:47 PM
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noteDhero said:

Everyone familiar with the VNs seem to point that there will be information that shows that anti-fantasy is a strong possiblity...even though we know that Beatrice's magic gets stronger when more people believe in her, and in this game she has all of the adult children on her side, plus the servants (minus Shannon perhaps), Kinzo, and Maria. Won't this game be a bust because of that? Perhaps that's more of a rhetorical question.


Pretty much. It's hard to explain at this point why the anti-fantasy possibility still exists without spoiling anything. All I can say is not to take the narrative for granted, which is hard to do given with the way things have been presented so far.

mangastar said:
Okay, having not read the manga, played the video games, or seen the anime which is similar to this, I'm pretty confused.. And I still haven't figured out, did he and the other three die at the end of episode 5?


You don't really need to have read the manga, seen Higurashi, or read the VN's... It's going to be confusing in any case.

What exactly happened to Battler and co. at the end of EP1 is still unknown. The ending scroll has them listed as "missing" for now.
 
Aug 13, 2009 8:52 PM
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Good episode but the "game" that Battler is playing didn't progress much so that's a bit disappointing. Even with that being said I enjoyed the pacing of the new "board/story".
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Aug 13, 2009 9:33 PM

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JackFrost said:
noteDhero said:
But like I said, he didn't prove anything about the first set of murders before. Why are we starting with a new game when he didn't even attempt to solve the real or first murders?


Basically, the game doesn't end for Beatrice until Battler concedes defeat- meaning, he acknowledges Beatrice the witch as the culprit of the Rokkenjima murders. As they were standing at the end of the first arc, Battler refused to concede to Beatrice even though he couldn't explain the murders; he just left it at the assumption that a real-life solution did exist, but that he couldn't explain it yet. So, Beatrice decided to keep the gaming going by continuing to conjure game boards until Battler finally does concede defeat (which, given Battler's stubbornness, could take lord knows how long).

In order for Battler to win at all, however, he has to be able to explain the mysteries of EVERY board game. Meaning, the first murders will be addressed eventually by Battler, but in the meantime he's just going to be stockpiled with even more mysteries to deal with. It may seem like an endless diversion right now, but actually, the developments of this arc onwards will provide Battler with the tools/means he needs to be able to counterattack Beatrice on all of the board games. It just remains to be seen how the anime will show that.


This post just made me more excited lol ^_^
 
Aug 13, 2009 10:24 PM

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Good episode, it had just the right amount of child abuse.
 
Aug 13, 2009 10:53 PM

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Is it just me or the early part of an episode (arc) is alwasy feels too fast ?

Things are goin' to become interesting here....
Rosa attending the meeting in the chapel should be the best clue for solving the next twilight, which is i wonder why no one is realizing it.

Oh yeah, ROSA IS THE BEST MUM EVAR
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:28 AM

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All I have to say is Epic Music.
 
Aug 14, 2009 1:07 AM

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My theory is that Beatrice is an alien who can manipulate data.

...And that Battler is Phoenix Wright's long lost distant cousin.

~.~
 
Aug 14, 2009 1:45 AM

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reapeating itself again and again... kinda remind me of another serie...


 
Aug 14, 2009 2:17 AM
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Fantastic episode, the developments were logical and brilliantly put on screen, and the direction was clearly the best out of the first 7 episodes. Everything felt right and good, now let's see what happens in the 8th one !

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Aug 14, 2009 3:03 AM

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No idea what is happening but Beatrice is awesome.
 
Aug 14, 2009 5:16 AM

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Maria must be a Rock type pokemon, seeing that double slap is not very effective on her.
 
Aug 14, 2009 7:18 AM

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Dark_Requiem said:
No one says the game has to be fair. I mean Battler has Bernkastel "The Witch of Miracles" on his side.


The game has never been fair for Battler... =( People will know why in the future. =X


ntHai said:
Maria must be a Rock type pokemon, seeing that double slap is not very effective on her.


LOL! =D But I do sympathize with her after knowing how Rosa treats her when reading the VN. >_<
Modified by Reina-chama, Aug 22, 2009 1:55 PM


 
Aug 14, 2009 7:53 AM

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MarthX said:
Honestly, it's best not to ask any questions. It is a mystery. If everything made sense immediately then it wouldn't be a mystery. If you don't like mysteries then why are you watching one?

Just accept everything and enjoy the ride. Being confused is part of it.

One thing I like to throw around is that its still early in the running but there are still things we may not understand or proof of points. One of the things is that characters could be imagining these events rather then just "LoL magix is so real gaiz11!!" there could be a thousand other explanations as to why the island itself could be part of a larger trick.
The magic is something Ill make a point here there are a lot of slight of hand tricks that will only be revealed when they are explained. Not every trick has to be explained to know a slight of hand as mentioned but I like to keep in mind that it is improbable to calculate who or what has ulterior motives in this world. For all we know Maria was a schizophrenic saw Beatrice and had her candy repair itself within a delusion.
 
Aug 14, 2009 8:19 AM

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I think that some of you guys are making mistakes regarding perspecetive. Saying things like "maybe x character is hallucinating," "or x character is dreaming" doesn't really work because, besides the 1st episode, we've had a neutral point of view with no narration.

That is unless the flowers on the island give off some hallucinogenic drug that affects everyone.
 
Aug 14, 2009 8:59 AM

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Actually, narration and perspectives do play a major role in what and how we see things. But this is badly translated because of its medium.
 
Aug 14, 2009 9:02 AM

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I'm sorry but I really want to know how the heck is studio deen going to handle people
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Aug 14, 2009 9:27 AM

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noteDhero said:
I think that some of you guys are making mistakes regarding perspecetive. Saying things like "maybe x character is hallucinating," "or x character is dreaming" doesn't really work because, besides the 1st episode, we've had a neutral point of view with no narration.

That is unless the flowers on the island give off some hallucinogenic drug that affects everyone.


The first arc was almost entirely Battler's perspective. When Battler wasn't around then the perspective was someone else. The anime didn't do a good job showing that.
Modified by LunarEmerald, Aug 14, 2009 9:30 AM
 
Aug 14, 2009 9:30 AM

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MarthX said:
noteDhero said:
I think that some of you guys are making mistakes regarding perspecetive. Saying things like "maybe x character is hallucinating," "or x character is dreaming" doesn't really work because, besides the 1st episode, we've had a neutral point of view with no narration.

That is unless the flowers on the island give off some hallucinogenic drug that affects everyone.


The first arc was almost entirely Battler's perspective. The anime didn't do a good job showing that.
Yes.

Besides, there are no neutral points of view.
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Aug 14, 2009 9:45 AM

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hiddenmoonlight said:
I'm sorry but I really want to know how the heck is studio deen going to handle people


We shall see. XD


 
Aug 14, 2009 10:26 AM
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noteDhero said:
I think that some of you guys are making mistakes regarding perspecetive. Saying things like "maybe x character is hallucinating," "or x character is dreaming" doesn't really work because, besides the 1st episode, we've had a neutral point of view with no narration.

That is unless the flowers on the island give off some hallucinogenic drug that affects everyone.


You can make those assumptions from the VNs though, which does make this a bit of an adaptation issue. This perspective issue is part of the reason why some people are concerned about Battler "witnessing" the butterflies at the end of the first arc of the anime; if the anime chooses to follow the source material plot, this might lead to inconsistencies later on with regards to the nature of his point of view.
Modified by JackFrost, Aug 14, 2009 11:00 AM
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:01 PM

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Ok, so it seems like everyone is at a consensus that this is a bad adaptation of the VN. While I'm glad that you guys are here to make light of that, is there a chance that the perspective being the way it is is not as important as the VN may make it out to be so that the anime is more streamlined?

What I mean to say, is that is it possible that the anime is making minor changes to focus on something more important?
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:04 PM

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First: <33 Beato.

Second: Just saw the episode and I have to say that the pacing is still super fast. Again, cut down on scenes, and took out dialogue. Especially, the first scene with Beatrice and Battler, Kyrie meeting Beatrice, Kanon and Shannon outside the kitchen, and Shannon serving Beatrice. At least they kept the music from the game intact.

Even though I felt this episode was also rushed, I think it was better than the last.
I can't wait to see the rest of Turn of the Golden Witch animated and like another person said, I'm really curious to see how they handle


Also: Ushiromiya Battleeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Edit: FUCK YEAH THE PREVIEW FOR THE NEXT EP KICKED ASS. All you anime viewers will be in for a surprise. And you'll be even more mindfucked :D! Don't watch it though if you don't want to be spoiled like countless other posts have said.
Modified by UBWah, Aug 14, 2009 12:15 PM
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:09 PM

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noteDhero said:
Ok, so it seems like everyone is at a consensus that this is a bad adaptation of the VN. While I'm glad that you guys are here to make light of that, is there a chance that the perspective being the way it is is not as important as the VN may make it out to be so that the anime is more streamlined?

What I mean to say, is that is it possible that the anime is making minor changes to focus on something more important?

While of course possible (if you consider characterization unimportant, at least, or if you consider that Ryuukishi told DEEN what would happen and as thus what they could drop - not credible), I think there was just too much to adapt, and too hard. The VN lives high on the play of text and metatext; and it lives very high on mocking the traditional, modernist omnisicent author voice.

So yes, it is possible, but I don't think it is very credible.
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Aug 14, 2009 12:18 PM

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Reina-chama said:
hiddenmoonlight said:
I'm sorry but I really want to know how the heck is studio deen going to handle people


We shall see. XD


I thought that's what is shown in the opening (the lyrics imply it even more). At least it would make sense if it was.
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:18 PM

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noteDhero said:
Ok, so it seems like everyone is at a consensus that this is a bad adaptation of the VN. While I'm glad that you guys are here to make light of that, is there a chance that the perspective being the way it is is not as important as the VN may make it out to be so that the anime is more streamlined?

What I mean to say, is that is it possible that the anime is making minor changes to focus on something more important?


It's not a bad adaption. It's just the perspective thing isn't as clear as it is in the VN. That's not really the fault of the anime. It's something that doesn't translate well to anime.
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:25 PM

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noteDhero said:
Ok, so it seems like everyone is at a consensus that this is a bad adaptation of the VN.


I don't think a VN ever has had a good adaptation in the eyes of those that had read it before xD.

Adaptation Decay and They Changed It Now It Sucks is what most people immediately feel about adaptations anyway.

Besides some nitpicking I mentioned in another thread and Battler's more heavily explained reasons for thinking "Magic doesn't exist and that's it", the only thing I found really missing was at the end of episode 1 Tea Party (spoilered because some people may consider it a spoiler? better be safe than sorry).

 
Aug 14, 2009 12:26 PM

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noteDhero said:
Ok, so it seems like everyone is at a consensus that this is a bad adaptation of the VN. While I'm glad that you guys are here to make light of that, is there a chance that the perspective being the way it is is not as important as the VN may make it out to be so that the anime is more streamlined?

What I mean to say, is that is it possible that the anime is making minor changes to focus on something more important?


It's not really a bad adaptation, if you compare it to the Higurashi one, it's the best adaptation EVER (really,as an adapatation it was awful). The bad thing is that they don't really give the impresion that the scene changes and so the PoV, but after all it's an anime, you can't do it that well.
What i really don't like about it it's that characters DO have inner thoughts, and here you rarely see someone thinking.
It couls be better as an adaptation, of course, but time restrictions are horrible and fitting everyrthing in 22min and giving it more or less a kind of end is difficult
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:28 PM

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Renza said:
First: <33 Beato.

Second: Just saw the episode and I have to say that the pacing is still super fast. Again, cut down on scenes, and took out dialogue. Especially, the first scene with Beatrice and Battler, Kyrie meeting Beatrice, Kanon and Shannon outside the kitchen, and Shannon serving Beatrice. At least they kept the music from the game intact.

Even though I felt this episode was also rushed, I think it was better than the last.
I can't wait to see the rest of Turn of the Golden Witch animated and like another person said, I'm really curious to see how they handle


Also: Ushiromiya Battleeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Edit: FUCK YEAH THE PREVIEW FOR THE NEXT EP KICKED ASS. All you anime viewers will be in for a surprise. And you'll be even more mindfucked :D! Don't watch it though if you don't want to be spoiled like countless other posts have said.


The episode was rushed. I knew it would be as soon as I saw the preview. It covered 5 chapters instead of 3 like episode 6. But despite being rushed, nothing truly important was cut and they did a good job squeezing the scenes in. They rushed through the guest Beatrice stuff so they could have more time to focus on October 5th. Which is a good decision. It looks like the next episode will cover 3 chapters so it should have a good pace.

For anyone curious, how many chapters each episode covered...

Episode 1: 6 and a half chapters
Episode 2: 3 chapters
Episode 3: 3 chapters
Episode 4: 3 chapters
Episode 5: 1 and a half chapters (tea party and ??? counting as one)

Episode 6: 3 chapters
Episode 7: 5 chapters

Not the best means of gauging pace because not all chapters are the same length.
Modified by LunarEmerald, Aug 14, 2009 12:36 PM
 
Aug 14, 2009 12:53 PM
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I began tearing up once I heard Answer at 7:00.

Oh, and Beato <3.

I also, for the first time, realized how much Beatrice in her episode 2 clothing makes her look like Jessica.
Modified by z2000, Aug 14, 2009 12:59 PM
 
Aug 14, 2009 1:21 PM

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Oh, one thing the VN did differently that made Beatrice more of a bitch

In the VN she tells Shannon if you don't accept the wedding ring then she'll spare her. If you do accept it then the deal with Kanon is off and she's vulnerable just like the rest. In the anime Shannon just pisses off Beatrice enough to change her mind about the deal with Kanon. Knowing that, it makes more sense when you see Kanon watching the scene and saying she's an idiot. Choosing to accept the ring, knowing that she's pretty much sealing her own fate.
 
Aug 14, 2009 1:26 PM

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MarthX said:
Oh, one thing the VN did differently that made Beatrice more of a bitch

In the VN she tells Shannon if you don't accept the wedding ring then she'll spare her. If you do accept it then the deal with Kanon is off and she's vulnerable just like the rest. In the anime Shannon just pisses off Beatrice enough to change her mind about the deal with Kanon. Knowing that, it makes more sense when you see Kanon watching the scene and saying she's an idiot. Choosing to accept the ring, knowing that she's pretty much sealing her own fate.

I thought something was missing from this episode lol. Yeah I remember that. I actually praised Shannon for doing that.
 
Aug 14, 2009 1:41 PM
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so tehy are in a new world
and beatrice wins if she gets acknowledged that she is a witch.
wow i liked the episode.
hopefully it will get better
 
Aug 14, 2009 1:42 PM

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MarthX said:
Oh, one thing the VN did differently that made Beatrice more of a bitch

In the VN she tells Shannon if you don't accept the wedding ring then she'll spare her. If you do accept it then the deal with Kanon is off and she's vulnerable just like the rest. In the anime Shannon just pisses off Beatrice enough to change her mind about the deal with Kanon. Knowing that, it makes more sense when you see Kanon watching the scene and saying she's an idiot. Choosing to accept the ring, knowing that she's pretty much sealing her own fate.

Meh, I think the effect is nearly the same. Especially when in just the episode before, she praised Shannon for being more like a friend.

Ok, so now that most everyone is saying that this isn't a bad adaptation (despite the fact that characterization and tone is being altered) what is with the majority of the complaints thrown at the show from VN players?

Oh yeah, there's no real need to post spoilers in response because I don't ever read them. I like being as ignorant of the source as possible to keep perspective.
 
Aug 14, 2009 1:55 PM

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Whoever says this is not a bad adaption is, I believe, wrong.

It is a good show, but as an adaption it is bad.

It misses most of the character development (see: Gohda, he is not a glum dude, he's a prideful showoff, see: Battler, he is not a molester, he's a joker, see: Rosa, she is not an obvious psycho, she's a nice person at first glance, see: relations between the siblings, barely touched upon at alletc etc), it tries to come off as Higurashi in style of directing and totally skips the subjective nature of the storytelling, it skips building mood, the mansion looks utterly plain and not as dark and baroque as it should, important information is skipped, etc etc.

One may say that "it's hard to do that in anime"/"they don't have time for that". Well, that does not matter. Hard to do? They don't even try. No time? Add another season. No economy for it? Shame, doesn't make it a better adaption.

Still, good show, as of this episode at least.
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Aug 14, 2009 2:01 PM

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noteDhero said:
MarthX said:
Oh, one thing the VN did differently that made Beatrice more of a bitch

In the VN she tells Shannon if you don't accept the wedding ring then she'll spare her. If you do accept it then the deal with Kanon is off and she's vulnerable just like the rest. In the anime Shannon just pisses off Beatrice enough to change her mind about the deal with Kanon. Knowing that, it makes more sense when you see Kanon watching the scene and saying she's an idiot. Choosing to accept the ring, knowing that she's pretty much sealing her own fate.

Meh, I think the effect is nearly the same. Especially when in just the episode before, she praised Shannon for being more like a friend.

Ok, so now that most everyone is saying that this isn't a bad adaptation (despite the fact that characterization and tone is being altered) what is with the majority of the complaints thrown at the show from VN players?

Oh yeah, there's no real need to post spoilers in response because I don't ever read them. I like being as ignorant of the source as possible to keep perspective.


A lot of people simply don't understand that it's impossible for the anime to have everything the VN has because then the anime would have a super slow pace and need to be 100 episodes. They're different mediums and have different pace standards. You can't have several episodes where nothing happens and expect the viewer to stay interested. On the other hand, people who read a VN expect a slow pace and don't have a problem with it taking hours before something big happens. Since DEEN apparently chose to fit all 4 arcs into 26 episodes (which may not have been the best decision) you have to sacrifice things to ensure more important things have enough screen time. The VN doesn't have this time restriction issue.
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:02 PM

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Kaiserpingvin said:
Whoever says this is not a bad adaption is, I believe, wrong.

It is a good show, but as an adaption it is bad.

It misses most of the character development (see: Gohda, he is not a glum dude, he's a prideful showoff, see: Battler, he is not a molester, he's a joker, see: Rosa, she is not an obvious psycho, she's a nice person at first glance, see: relations between the siblings, barely touched upon at alletc etc), it tries to come off as Higurashi in style of directing and totally skips the subjective nature of the storytelling, it skips building mood, the mansion looks utterly plain and not as dark and baroque as it should, important information is skipped, etc etc.

One may say that "it's hard to do that in anime"/"they don't have time for that". Well, that does not matter. Hard to do? They don't even try. No time? Add another season. No economy for it? Shame, doesn't make it a better adaption.

Still, good show, as of this episode at least.

I guess Studio Deen wasn't fit to do adaptations of ANYTHING really. Off topic I know but I heard they also butchered Fate/Stay Night badly. My friend told me they did Higurashi badly.

I'm playing the games myself. I'm playing episode 3 right now at this moment, and I have to say that the adaptation is really sub par. It is enjoyable but the anime watchers should definitely play the game. It's a totally different experience and the tension is much higher.
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:03 PM

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Great Episode Other Than Maria Uuu Uuu'in so Damn Much
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:04 PM

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Shannon's an idoit. I agree with Kanon.
Good episode.
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:06 PM

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MarthX said:
Meh, I think the effect is nearly the same. Especially when in just the episode before, she praised Shannon for being more like a friend.

Ok, so now that most everyone is saying that this isn't a bad adaptation (despite the fact that characterization and tone is being altered) what is with the majority of the complaints thrown at the show from VN players?

Oh yeah, there's no real need to post spoilers in response because I don't ever read them. I like being as ignorant of the source as possible to keep perspective.


A lot of people simply don't understand that it's impossible for the anime to have everything the VN has because then the anime would have a super slow pace and need to be 100 episodes. They're different mediums and have different pace standards. You can't have several episodes where nothing happens and expect the viewer to stay interested. On the other hand, people who read a VN expect a slow pace and don't have a problem with it taking hours before something big happens. Since DEEN apparently chose to fit all 4 arcs into 26 episodes (which may not have been the best decision) you have to sacrifice things to ensure more important things have enough screen time. The VN doesn't have this time restriction issue.

See: Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Monster.

What it is doing, is essentially pandering to people used to one particular type and pace of storytelling and foresaking artistic integrity because they need money. Very well, the end result is good, so I don't care. But I would never call it a good adaption.
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Aug 14, 2009 2:14 PM

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Not every studio has the luxury of having the series be as many episodes as they want. Budget is a big issue. The more episodes there are, the more the budget has to be stretched. As a result, you have to have a really high budget to make all the episodes look nice. It sounds like your standards are too high.

If you really thought Umineko would have a crazy high budget and be on par with top productions then you were naive.
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:15 PM

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I think it's fascinating that you think that Umineko, on its own merits, is a good show, Kaiserpingvin. Why do you say so?

Because for me, all I see is wooden characters being pulled along by a scatter-brained plot and theories of multiple worlds. And everything that you railed against the show as an adaptation directly conflicts with the show being good on its own.
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:20 PM

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Wooden characters is a cheap blanket statement. I could call the characters for any series, wooden or dull or uncreative etc. It's like saying something is bad without going into details. A statement used to disguise an opinion as a fact. You don't like the characters but instead of saying that, you use a blanket statement to make it seem as if it were a fact.
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:21 PM

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Guh quoting fail on my part there :/
MarthX said:
Not every studio has the luxury of having the series be as many episodes as they want. Budget is a big issue. The more episodes there are, the more the budget has to be stretched. As a result, you have to have a really high budget to make all the episodes look nice. It sounds like your standards are too high.

Rather, I take "adaption" seriously. As I said, that it is economically impossible does not matter. That doesn't make it better or worse. It is just a cruel shackle on their creativity.

If they had one third, or thrice, the budget, but did the very same thing, would Umineko become better or worse, respectively? No. Their work would be worse, but Umineko itself would be the very same show.

So it is not really the fault of the director and crew, it is rather the fault of the producers (even if I'd admire Kon and crew far more if they actually went for an exhaustive adaption instead).

noteDhero said:
I think it's fascinating that you think that Umineko, on its own merits, is a good show, Kaiserpingvin. Why do you say so?

Because for me, all I see is wooden characters being pulled along by a scatter-brained plot and theories of multiple worlds. And everything that you railed against the show as an adaptation directly conflicts with the show being good on its own.

As of this episode, at least. Before I'd call it an okay show.

It is hard to tell, of course, given how I know how it'll turn out and all, and how I am prejudiced, I just wagered that if I knew nothing, that's the judgment I would do, on account of, mainly, the plot.
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Aug 14, 2009 2:32 PM

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I also think it is a good episode, it's just a matter of opinion. I don't know why people would watch this even though they don't like it..
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:37 PM

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MarthX said:
Wooden characters is a cheap blanket statement. I could call the characters for any series, wooden or dull or uncreative etc. It's like saying something is bad without going into details. A statement used to disguise an opinion as a fact. You don't like the characters but instead of saying that, you use a blanket statement to make it seem as if it were a fact.


I've gone into detalis many times...including my first post in this thread. I didn't know that comments don't carry over.

But piggybacking on what Kasperpingvin has already said, here we go:

Battler: He perhaps isn't as wooden as everyone else, but I will say that when he isn't being a smug think he knows it all, he fails. See the reveal of his parents being dead as proof.

Kanon: He's emo furniture.

Shannon: just a plain nice girl...the little time that they spent on her in the last episode didn't do much to give any insight on her character, or importance besides smashing the mirror.

Jessica: I think it says something when I'm not impressed by Maria Inoue's performance. She's the only voice actress that does a good job with the sceaming and portraying general shock, but the whole "creating a person within yourself" just didn't hold any weight. Nor do we see any reason for why she's so in love with Kanon, but I'm sure that will be glossed over later.

Maria: Do I need to say anything? Higurashi face, and the voice actress ruin much of the point to this character to me. This seems to be mostly Deen's fault since she seems to be the biggest exaggeration in this world....and I really need a reason for why she acts like a 2 year old.

George: Who? Oh the guy who lost Shannon, and who, after we find out last episode is supposed to be perfect? Ok. Moving along...

Natsuhi: Good character, best job of giving motivation and characterization goes to her. Genuinely interesting.

Eva: Second best job, still a little too over the top when they first introduced her, and that goes for the last episode too.

Other siblings and spouses: Yeah, we can group them all together, because nothing has been done here.

Servants: Just that.

Kinzo: Crazy and on his deathbed.

Beatrice: Intriguing, but really, all we know is that she likes to toy around with people and she's less powerful than Bernkastel. Don't know much about her. The real mystery of the show lies here.
Modified by noteDhero, Aug 14, 2009 2:41 PM
 
Aug 14, 2009 2:46 PM
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Beatrice owned Battler there.... Things are certainly not looking good for Meta-Battler....

Beatrice now has nearly taken control of the whole board....

I find this game really really amusing and entertaining....maybe because I think I understand the true involvement (and foundation) of this game....but it will be hard to explain it....
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
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