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Poll: Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 5 Discussion


Jul 30, 2009 1:37 AM
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ukonkivi said:
Whether Beatrice lies or not, we're pretty much beyond most non-paranormal explanations here.


Pretty much =/= Entirely.

Edit: Also, Beatrice doesn't lie. She just creatively bends the truth.
Modified by PlatinumHawke, Jul 30, 2009 1:40 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:38 AM

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So is everyone's "side" on theories and speculation until the answer arcs come out? Like right now nothing we think of is wrong yet?
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:40 AM

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PlatinumHawke said:
ukonkivi said:
Whether Beatrice lies or not, we're pretty much beyond most non-paranormal explanations here.


Pretty much =/= Entirely.

Entirely does not exist in any form or kind.
There is no such thing as perfect certainty.

I can't entirely say for sure than gravity exists or that the world isn't flat.

And whatever the case, one this is for sure. This one episode has incredibly unique qualities.

The entire situation was moved into what could be an inner world of Beatrice, or a hallucination of Battler. This is the first time in an episode we've seen again characters who are already proclaimed dead.

It's certainly unique and weird. But that's of course undersaid because 90% who come in here come in to brag about how much more awesome the VN is and how much more awesome they are for having seen the VN first.

PlatinumHawke said:
Edit: Also, Beatrice doesn't lie. She just creatively bends the truth.

You're just getting sillier and sillier.
Modified by ukonkivi, Jul 30, 2009 1:44 AM

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Jul 30, 2009 1:46 AM
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ukonkivi said:

Entirely does not exist in any form or kind.
There is no such thing as perfect certainty.


But that's basically the crux of Beatrice's game: To make the perfect impossibility in order to prove magic and witches exist. Anyway, I feel like I'm encroaching on spoilers here, so I'll leave this arguement be for now.

ukonkivi said:

You're just getting sillier and sillier.


Trying to figure out the mysteries kinda does have that effect on you. I'm sure my brain is partly fried because of this all.
Modified by PlatinumHawke, Jul 30, 2009 1:49 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:46 AM

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MarthX said:
Your way of thinking isn't necessarily wrong. There are two sides to the Umineko fanbase.

Anti-mystery. You believe the witch exists. Everything was done by her and magic. You root for Beatrice to make the stubborn Battler submit

Anti-fantasy. You don't believe the witch exists. Everything was done by humans and no magic was involved. You root for Battler to deny Beatrice's existence.

You've already taken belief in anti-mystery so there's no point trying to convince you otherwise. Most people are anti-fantasy though so you are in the minority.


Why is it that most Anti-fantasy fans think this can end... "good".. if Beatrice doesn't exist in some manner than Battlers dead in VN 1 lol... Anti-Fantasy fans are like Ange in VN 4.. they just don't look at the big picture.
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:50 AM

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Good episode. I wasn't expecting this to relate to Higurashi to be honest. I just have a few questions...will Umineko follow the similar path of Question Arcs and Answer Arcs? And if so will we get all the answers to this series in 1 season or will it go for two seasons to answer the questions like it did in Higurashi? I know its impossible to judge whether a 2nd season is coming or not but just a judgement based on current pacing will the first season get through it all?
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:57 AM
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Taihaku said:
Good episode. I wasn't expecting this to relate to Higurashi to be honest. I just have a few questions...will Umineko follow the similar path of Question Arcs and Answer Arcs? And if so will we get all the answers to this series in 1 season or will it go for two seasons to answer the questions like it did in Higurashi? I know its impossible to judge whether a 2nd season is coming or not but just a judgement based on current pacing will the first season get through it all?


Yeah, Umineko also has question and answer arcs. There are four chapters to the question arcs in all. Considering that none of answer arcs are even released as VNs yet, I can guarantee that we're going to need a second series. However, considering the current pacing, it looks like all of the question arcs will be animated in this run.
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:59 AM

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PlatinumHawke said:
Trying to figure out the mysteries kinda does have that effect on you. I'm sure my brain is partly fried because of this all.

Completely unrelated to my statement.

I think people here don't understand varying degrees of what can be considered paranormal, magic

If Beatrice proves magic exists, then that just proves my point that the anti-fantasy stance is illogical.

Pretty much most of what goes on now is outside of the realm of current human technology. There's either magic and witches here or there's not. There is no in between. It's illogical to think otherwise. Paranormal exists in this world or it doesn't. And there's some very strict and highly unlikely situations for non-paranormal to still be possible. One it would be illogical to bet on.

Other than paranormal, we're pretty much reduced to mass hallucinations or brain in a vat scenario.

You're might as well argue that Battler is in reality Neo and that Umineko is a cheap copyright infringement of the Matrix. There's all sort of weird possibilities in this world. But to take an anti-fantasy stance is to be going with a high improbability.

Whatever the crux of her game, your post appears to have little to do with what I said.
PlatinumHawke said:
Trying to figure out the mysteries kinda does have that effect on you. I'm sure my brain is partly fried because of this all.

You're just being illogical and silly and trying to dress it up as "deep".

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
Jul 30, 2009 2:11 AM
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ukonkivi said:
You're just being illogical and silly and trying to dress it up as "deep".


No, I'm just dodging a lot of spoilers.
 
Jul 30, 2009 2:13 AM
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ukonkivi said:
PlatinumHawke said:
Trying to figure out the mysteries kinda does have that effect on you. I'm sure my brain is partly fried because of this all.

Completely unrelated to my statement.

I think people here don't understand varying degrees of what can be considered paranormal, magic

If Beatrice proves magic exists, then that just proves my point that the anti-fantasy stance is illogical.

Pretty much most of what goes on now is outside of the realm of current human technology. There's either magic and witches here or there's not. There is no in between. It's illogical to think otherwise. Paranormal exists in this world or it doesn't. And there's some very strict and highly unlikely situations for non-paranormal to still be possible. One it would be illogical to bet on.

Other than paranormal, we're pretty much reduced to mass hallucinations or brain in a vat scenario.

You're might as well argue that Battler is in reality Neo and that Umineko is a cheap copyright infringement of the Matrix. There's all sort of weird possibilities in this world. But to take an anti-fantasy stance is to be going with a high improbability.

Whatever the crux of her game, your post appears to have little to do with what I said.


In regards to your statement:

The main point of the anti-fantasy side is that the murders themselves could have been all done by humans without the aid of the supernatural. The conversation between Battler and Beatrice that is happening at the moment isn't considered in this equation, since her existence there is separate from the "game-board", a term that'd be explained in greater detail later on in the series.

What you're trying to argue against at the moment is idea that magic doesn't exist, period. This argument states that everything, including Battler's existence in that place and the witches' own existence, that is not natural cannot exist. That's a more hardcore aspect to the anti-fantasy side, which most people tend to stay away from since it's much harder to believe. However, it's not an argument without merit.

You won't really get the point of Anti-Mystery vs Anti-Fantasy until the second game gets into gear, so just go with the flow for now. Just understand that Umineko won't let you take anything for granted.
 
Jul 30, 2009 2:21 AM

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Great pacing this time around~

I was really glad to see Bernkastel. AND she's Yukari Tamura again!

Sayaka Ohara was great as Beatrice.

Znips: When Shay is born she just crawls back in the womb to shitpost for another year
 
Jul 30, 2009 2:25 AM

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Ok people, stop deciding what is real and what is not. At the moment the prologue ended and you're going to drop into the real story so please, don't start speculating just yet. In regard to denying the existence of Beatrice and explaining what humans could/NOT have achieved in the twilight murders, it will all be revealed. To some degree. As said in other comments, you either accept Beatrice or deny her. Either way you're going to have to find out either the impossible murder or sit on the other side of the chessboard and disprove anything that is illogical with twisted, yet, human logic.

Yes, the answer arcs are not out yet but you can still understand what the VN readers are referring to once the 2nd Episode ends. Maybe even throughout it.

 
Jul 30, 2009 2:51 AM

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Saying you can't trust what you see is anti-fantasy way of thinking. He's mostly anti-mystery so let him think his own way.
 
Jul 30, 2009 3:02 AM

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wow, judging by what has been stated in the previous posts, i think i am an anti-fantasy fan.. i still think that the murders have to be executed by some human and beatrice and bern are there as tools so that we can rewind the events and we can solve the mystery..

much like hanyuu's existence in higurashi, i only found her as an explanation for the loops and not their deaths..
 
Jul 30, 2009 3:21 AM
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Long live the witch Bern-sama!!!

noteDhero said:
I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist, especially given the conversation with Bernkastel, and the supernatural elements of the Naku Koro Ni series, but oh wells.

Have you watched or read Higurashi? If not, this will be a grave spoiler.
 
Jul 30, 2009 3:38 AM
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And I've missed mentioning the most important things.
All those who got excited by the boobs know nothing of woman.
WHY DON'T YOU LOOK AT THE SEXY THIGHS?

...I've been a bit crazy now, forgive me.
 
Jul 30, 2009 4:02 AM

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The full end roll for anyone that cares about knowing more details.

This plays after the clock strikes midnight and you hear someone laughing.

 
Jul 30, 2009 4:05 AM

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So it takes 5 episodes to complete Legend Of Golden Witch. Although Turn of Goledn witch aren't really my favorite, I'm still looking forward to the episode. That probably will take another 5 or 6 episodes.

Overall I'm really satisfied this episode, much better than episode 4. A bit of scenes on the final twilights, then straight to the Tea PArty, which is aruably the best part of this episode. I like the way they describe the atmosphere when Battler oppose everyone's opinion about the witch's doing, when everyone show a thriller expression.
Then to the extra ????. Also finely done from my view. Bern <3

Maybe it's just me, but I find Beato isn't as charming as her in vn/others arts I found.

ps: It does not matter whether it is done by Magic or human tricks. The"human" Battler unfortunately has never seen any of the magic in the entire game (except a bit in later episodes) so it's only natural for him not to believe magic. Others might have seen the magic, but it's all down to one's perception toward something unproven.

The destinies mend rift in time as men etches fate anew
 
Jul 30, 2009 4:39 AM

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MarthX said:
The full end roll for anyone that cares about knowing more details.

This plays after the clock strikes midnight and you hear someone laughing.


Well said.
This is not a spoiler, but a piece of information everyone should read, unless it will be revealed in episode 6 however I doubt it. Coming up next; Episode 2 :)

 
Jul 30, 2009 4:48 AM
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Am I the only one who thinks this show is lame? The whole using a little child to convey the story in the horror/mystery genre is very overused and tiresome. Thought this anime would show me more, but I am not impressed. Maria isn't that interesting and the exaggeration with the facial distortion is weak.
 
Jul 30, 2009 5:34 AM

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Haha, reading this VN-read vs. anime-watcher arguing is so much fun :D

Dsrtstorm said:
Am I the only one who thinks this show is lame? The whole using a little child to convey the story in the horror/mystery genre is very overused and tiresome. Thought this anime would show me more, but I am not impressed. Maria isn't that interesting and the exaggeration with the facial distortion is weak.

Well yeah, kids sure are basic elements in most horror, mostly cos it's still a shock if they do something gruesome. I wouldn't be sure about Maria not being interesting. I mean, it's only been 5 episodes, there's no way they would reveal everything about the characters just yet.
 
Jul 30, 2009 5:35 AM

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LOL??
what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes....

and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically)

ps: preview
http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html
Modified by vinesage, Jul 30, 2009 5:48 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 6:46 AM
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Bern-tan~ <3 Now time for that weird explanation in episode 2's ???.

I'm anti-fantasy. Nothing can be considered real until said events happen directly in front of Game Board Piece Battler.

I heavily support the Schrodinger's Box and Braun Tube theories.

Maria seemed very cute this episode...

Anyways, may the true mind rape begin?
Modified by z2000, Jul 30, 2009 7:39 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 6:55 AM

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I is kinda confused about the sudden change from seeing the flask mail go to shore and then going over to the scene were they talked about bad endings and whatnot. I have not played the VN, so i am just wondering if this is getting explained somehow?
 
Jul 30, 2009 7:17 AM

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They executed that much better than I expected. Also Battler and Beato's facial expressions were priceless.
 
Jul 30, 2009 7:23 AM

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That was a lame way for Maria to die... but I guess she can't have a painful death if she believes in Beatrice...
 
Jul 30, 2009 7:25 AM

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Battler's a bit crazy. But I gotta admit he has guts.
 
Jul 30, 2009 7:29 AM

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BERN!!! :D next up, the Seven Sisters of Purgatory


 
Jul 30, 2009 7:43 AM

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Missy said:
That was a lame way for Maria to die... but I guess she can't have a painful death if she believes in Beatrice...

Well, the second part of the episode doesn't happen in the real world, at that point everyone is already dead.

How the last four survivors died is not shown in the game either. The only thing we know is that they were torn apart. The police found many pieces of the bodies and the only identifiable piece is Maria's jaw.

So, the Maria-haters can happy now, because she's died in the most horrible way.
 
Jul 30, 2009 7:51 AM

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Excellent episode :)

I was quite surprised when I saw Rika-chama Bernkastel.
 
Jul 30, 2009 7:56 AM
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I suppose Battler has the power of an "observer" (in a physics sense), which may be the reason Beatrice can't directly show magic in front of him.....

I won't be surprised if they threw some physics/philosophical theories to explain some of the events that is happening....
bla bla bla
The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.
Niko-kun said:
On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard?
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:09 AM

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mouselmm said:
Who's ready for EP2's tea party's


great pacing with this episode, Yukarin's appearance is WIN

Agreed with the boob fanservice though. Before I thought that Jessica's boob-physics whenever she turned was excessive, but then I saw Shannon in Tea Party...enough is enough.

Still, this shot makes me laugh


I saw what you did th4r. xD
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:13 AM

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TheCorruptedOne said:
Excellent episode :)

I was quite surprised when I saw Rika-chama Bernkastel.
True. I guess that was made on purpose. Anyway, great ep.
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:20 AM
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wow for a first timer to the no naku koro ni series, this anime is sooooo confusing.
im like being wtf the entire time for the 5 eps so far.
but from wat ive seen in the forums, it seems the fun continues on.
this anime really is epic. i need to seee higurashi after this immediately lol.
but yea im with battler.i think all those murders could really be done by human.and in this anime, i believe beatrice is fake and thus, im with battler.
however, i dont think battler could solve it all himself.
we need to call L, the world's greatest detective who brought down a massive killer who used a magic notebook that kills anyone whose name is written on it LOL

ps. just HAD to make that death note reference.im sure light is a better killer than beatrice though.
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:30 AM
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I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything?

You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:30 AM
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kaena said:
wow for a first timer to the no naku koro ni series, this anime is sooooo confusing.
im like being wtf the entire time for the 5 eps so far.
but from wat ive seen in the forums, it seems the fun continues on.
this anime really is epic. i need to seee higurashi after this immediately lol.
but yea im with battler.i think all those murders could really be done by human.and in this anime, i believe beatrice is fake and thus, im with battler.
however, i dont think battler could solve it all himself.
we need to call L, the world's greatest detective who brought down a massive killer who used a magic notebook that kills anyone whose name is written on it LOL

ps. just HAD to make that death note reference.im sure light is a better killer than beatrice though.


So you haven't watched Higurashi?? Watch it. NOW.
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:42 AM

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Lolz so that's one ending?
and looks like it's a battle between of logic and magic then?
and are there more witches rite?
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:44 AM

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Good episode.
Loved Beatrice and she have big boobs.
I'm not fan of the two factions you speak about.
And i haven't played the game or see Higurashi. :)
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:44 AM

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vinesage said:
LOL??
what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes....

and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically)

ps: preview
http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html


What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard.
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:45 AM

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Beatrice is awesome. Hope the next arc is better.
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:48 AM

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kameko14 said:
I'm so confused.. can someone explain this episode to me without spoiling anything?

You're all discussing things that make no sense to me o.o


Everyone died. The scene you saw afterward was a place called Purgatorio where Battler goes against Beatrice

Battler tries to prove that everything can be explained with human tricks

Beatrice tries to prove that it's impossible for humans, forcing him to accept that it was a witch with magic.

Purgatorio is a different world/dimension. The fact that Beatrice exists there does not prove that she exists in the world of Rokkenjima and that she was the culprit behind everything.

This is just the premise. The real story of Umineko has begun. There are many twists, turns and surprises in the future. Sit back and enjoy the ride, because you're in for a hell of a ride.
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:54 AM

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noteDhero said:
I see what you're saying, but there is also the fact that there is the mystery of Beatrice's riddle and where the gold is...which is more than enough fodder for a good mystery to me. I think the presence of Bernkastel leaves room for her to meddle a bit, but that's a different discussion.

But thanks for pointing out the factions...I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist, especially given the conversation with Bernkastel, and the supernatural elements of the Naku Koro Ni series, but oh wells.


Most anti-fantasy, like me, don't actually believe that witches and magic don't exist at all. We believe that the murders throughout the series were not done with magic, and that none of the... You know what I really can't say any more without spoiling shit....

The whole design of the mystery is so some things can never be solved by the viewer until the answers. This allows you to speculate essentially infinitely. These can't be proven wrong, but they also can't be proven right til the answer come out. You're also always plain ass confused as hell. This is nothing, it gets so infinitely more confusing.

Anyway, I will say that some of the scenes you have seen already have been proven to have never actually happened.... hehehe. One more thing. Don't believe anything that is not seen by Battler (not even necessarily then) or isn't
Modified by DrZed, Jul 30, 2009 10:28 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 8:54 AM

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The thing about this Antifantasy/Antimystery is that such stories will ever have speculativ things, even when you get the ansaws.

Such stories are also sometimes known as "Weird fiction"

And there is a Note about it:
_______________________________________________________________

The true weird tale has something more than secret murder, bloody bones, or a sheeted form clanking chains according to rule. A certain atmosphere of breathless and unexplainable dread of outer, unknown forces must be present; and there must be a hint, expressed with a seriousness and portentousness becoming its subject, of that most terrible conception of the human brain--a malign and particular suspension or defeat of those fixed laws of Nature which are our only safeguard against the assaults of chaos and the daemons of unplumbed space.

Written by the poet and novelist H.P. Lovecraft
_______________________________________________________________


Do you see the semilaretis to Umineko?
The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear ist the fear of the unknown.

H.P. Lovecraft
 
Jul 30, 2009 9:00 AM

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oh well...the new witch remidns me of rika...just a bit older lol....

this was the best episode so far, at least I think so

I loled when natsuhi died, because someone predicted that she'd die next xD
 
Jul 30, 2009 9:13 AM
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wtf this became totally stupid in an instant?!
waiting for ep6 before judging, but i don't have high hopes...

why does everyone remember their death's and nobody really cares.. how could someone actually not believe in a witch after so many people got killed and revived omg i'm so disappointed because this was the anime i was most excited about this season....
 
Jul 30, 2009 9:17 AM

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This series is bit confusing, but quite interesting. Can't wait to see the next arc.
 
Jul 30, 2009 9:18 AM

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Witches don't exist! I refuse to believe! D':
 
Jul 30, 2009 9:20 AM

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Zedrane said:
vinesage said:
LOL??
what kind of show is that?? this got to be one of the dumbest i have ever seen until they can prove me wrong in the "still to be shown" episodes....

and the only one person (maria) i want to see dead sooo bad throughout the 5 episodes didnt suffer a totally miserable death?? i want to see her face cut in two as well...(graphically)

ps: preview
http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html


What? Having her body torn apart and eaten by demons. Then being revived and slowly turned back into the pitiful pile of flesh that she was when she was dead wasn't a horrible enough demise? Sick bastard.

are u saying that, laughing at corpses of your relatives whose faces are completely torn apart, isnt sick?

I'd say Maria is the one of the sickest character i have seen and by far sicker than this serial murderer they are after. If i must define the evil in this show then it is definitely called maria.... and evil does, most of the time, deserve their suitable end (and i didnt see her end)
 
Jul 30, 2009 9:21 AM

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xoxo said:
wtf this became totally stupid in an instant?!
waiting for ep6 before judging, but i don't have high hopes...

why does everyone remember their death's and nobody really cares.. how could someone actually not believe in a witch after so many people got killed and revived omg i'm so disappointed because this was the anime i was most excited about this season....


I'm fine with people accepting the witch and thinking she did it but if you insult the series or belittle it then it makes me want to smack you with spoilers to show how little that you know. Don't act like that you know everything. The real story has just started.
Modified by LunarEmerald, Jul 30, 2009 9:25 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 9:21 AM

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Awesome episode. Awesome series. That's all there is to it.
 
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