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Poll: Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 5 Discussion


#1
Jul 29, 2009 12:12 PM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
I can't believe they ended up using up 20~minutes with how much material was left over. If only the first couple of episodes had this kind of pacing.

BGM used: Dead Angle, sasori no harawata, オルガン小曲_第6億番_ハ短調 (!!!), 牢獄STRIP (rougoku)

Modified by z-pak, Jul 29, 2009 12:34 PM
 
#2
Jul 29, 2009 12:16 PM

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Why don't you wait to post a thread until, well, you've seen the episode?
 
#3
Jul 29, 2009 12:20 PM

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I think you should fix the title so it more appropriately reads "Umineko no Naku Koro ni screenshot from Episode 5 discussion". And of course, post the screenshot we are discussing.
 
#4
Jul 29, 2009 1:32 PM

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Episode was awesome! Loved it so much!
I was spazzing a lot~ Man! I hope DEEN keeps this up! x3 EP2/Turn of the Golden Witch is one of my favorites~

 
#5
Jul 29, 2009 1:54 PM

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Beato, Tea party, ???, rougoku, Trollcastel.
I came
 
#6
Jul 29, 2009 1:54 PM
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I think this was the best anime episode so far. And it was great to hear some more great songs from the game.



Now, on to Turn ^^ I'm now really looking forward to it.
Modified by nason07, Jul 29, 2009 2:21 PM
 
#7
Jul 29, 2009 1:59 PM
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Now the real story will start. Crazy theories and
to come!
 
#8
Jul 29, 2009 2:04 PM

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Feka said:
Beato, Tea party, ???, rougoku, Trollcastel.
I came

^ this + Bern-sama >__<

Modified by Tenjouname, Jul 29, 2009 2:08 PM
 
#9
Jul 29, 2009 2:07 PM

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This was the best ep so far.



Bring on ep 2
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:08 PM

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Bern and Tea Parties. This episode was amazing.
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:13 PM

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Shaoran said:
Feka said:
Beato, Tea party, ???, rougoku, Trollcastel.
I came

^ this + Bern-sama >__<


You know, Trollkastel = Bern-sama >:3
(edit: oh, I fucked the K for a C before... oh well...)
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:21 PM

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Bern and Beato look so cool <3

Battler falling over when Beato showed up was really funny.

I do have some complaints about the episode but I will keep them to myself this time (:

I kind of miss the End Roll. Maybe it wasn't important after all
Modified by hirahira, Jul 29, 2009 2:36 PM
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:26 PM

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Battler actually did shoot the gun once or twice at the butterflies in the game.
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:32 PM

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I loved the tea party and the ??? one(Beato, Bern <3)

still too many fanservice(it's just annoying, but I can ignore it)



 
Jul 29, 2009 3:10 PM

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SilentXenocide said:
Good episode. However, I find it a bit strange that Battler can shoot a gun well enough to hit the small butterfly on the portrait. I also don't care much for Beato's voice, but that's just because I had a different voice in mind whilst reading the VN. Overall though I liked Battler in this episode, I think he was more like his usual self.


He was like 5 feet away from the butterfly. And same here about Beato's voice. I mean, I like it but it is not at all what I imagined her sounding like.
 
Jul 29, 2009 3:20 PM

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Zedrane said:
SilentXenocide said:
Good episode. However, I find it a bit strange that Battler can shoot a gun well enough to hit the small butterfly on the portrait. I also don't care much for Beato's voice, but that's just because I had a different voice in mind whilst reading the VN. Overall though I liked Battler in this episode, I think he was more like his usual self.


He was like 5 feet away from the butterfly. And same here about Beato's voice. I mean, I like it but it is not at all what I imagined her sounding like.


I at the most I love Ohara's laugh.

Bern looked less deadpan than I thought she would be on DEEN's part.
Modified by Rogna, Jul 29, 2009 3:31 PM
 
Jul 29, 2009 3:26 PM

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Amazing episode. I hope future episodes are paced this well.
 
Jul 29, 2009 3:35 PM

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Feka said:
Beato, Tea party, ???, rougoku, Trollcastel.
I came

hahahahaha
This episode was great.

 
Jul 29, 2009 4:52 PM

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Bern did smile a bit in the anime :p



~~~

Though they need to tone down the boob fanservice

 
Jul 29, 2009 4:59 PM

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Tsunami said:

This episode was great.




This episode was epic!
 
Jul 29, 2009 5:39 PM

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Sure is using lever action rifles with no lever action.
 
Jul 29, 2009 6:01 PM

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plus one witch role to ohara's portfolio, heh
Sorry for grammar mistakes(if any), english is not my native language. Feel free to correct me if you see some.
 
Jul 29, 2009 6:24 PM

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ariapokoteng said:
plus one witch role to ohara's portfolio, heh

What are you talking about?
 
Jul 29, 2009 7:25 PM

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WHY oh WHY did I watch this thing in RAW?D:

R-Rika-chama?:o

Since I haven't seen the sub, I'm theorizing that whole scene where everyone is back alive again, is just a vision that Beatrice gave to Battler.

Not that they're not still alive, somewhere. But within Beatrice's consciousness/mind/spell/entity thing.

And oh all you little people who have played the games and read the manga, making all these spoilers and little future event related in jokes and references. You're forcing me to have to catch up on the manga.

I'm even considering going out and looking for a game download for once.D:

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
Jul 29, 2009 8:10 PM

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Who's ready for EP2's tea party's


great pacing with this episode, Yukarin's appearance is WIN

Agreed with the boob fanservice though. Before I thought that Jessica's boob-physics whenever she turned was excessive, but then I saw Shannon in Tea Party...enough is enough.

Still, this shot makes me laugh
Modified by mouselmm, Jul 29, 2009 8:16 PM
 
Jul 29, 2009 8:14 PM

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As a person who's not into big boobs, I'll agree to that.

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
Jul 29, 2009 8:56 PM

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Bern's VN model actually has boobs. For some reason they took them away in the anime and made her completely flat chested. :/
 
Jul 29, 2009 9:18 PM

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Zedrane said:
Bern's VN model actually has boobs. For some reason they took them away in the anime and made her completely flat chested. :/

Well, Maria also did as well. I'm pretty sure that's not how it's supposed to be. Then again, it's Ryuukishi's art we're talking about here.

Loved this episode. Great pacing, great voice acting, great music and use of bgms and it just felt really good.

Anyway, preview for II-I: http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html
 
Jul 29, 2009 9:29 PM

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BakaOnna said:

Anyway, preview for II-I: http://umineko.tv/web/main/onair/index.html

Brace for Tsurupettan?
 
Jul 29, 2009 9:38 PM

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Feka said:
Shaoran said:
Feka said:
Beato, Tea party, ???, rougoku, Trollcastel.
I came

^ this + Bern-sama >__<


You know, Trollkastel = Bern-sama >:3
(edit: oh, I fucked the K for a C before... oh well...)

Trollkastel doesn't exist, Bernkastel exists
*answered Beato*
it seems Beato has another opinion =P

yes next week
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:56 PM
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BakaOnna said:
great music and use of bgms


Cranky VN player is not happy with what happened to Rougoku and system0. The versions in the anime don't have the umph the versions in the VN have.

Other than that, this, and the last episode, get thumbs up from me.
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:21 AM

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So...let me get this straight.

Battler dies, and knows he, and everyone else, died and gets transported back into time at some unspecific point, yet refuses to believe there is a witch? Then the witch appears before him after he says "I need to see the witch before I believe she exists" and still doesn't believe her? No matter what he says, the fact that a person just appeared right in front of him is inarguable. So there is a 19th person on the island. Battler has to be the dumbest main character I've ever encountered. And this premise seems to be the most pompous.

Basically the goal is to solve the riddle, but since Battler doesn't even believe in the witch, we can't solve the riddle. So we're going to spend inordinate amounts of time having to prove to Battler that Beatrice is real? Hopefully Jessica and George just kill Maria and Battler and starts to solve the riddle themselves.

Another thing is that Shannon and Kanon seem to have had some kind of knowledge regarding what was going to happen to them. I point to Shannon's hesitancy to accept George, and Kanon's, "We're just furniture" as proof. Maybe this is one big scheme on the part of Kinzo and Beatrice to determine the next head of the family/heir?

Honestly, the most interesting part of the episode was Bernkastel and Beatrice, but really, they were mostly just speaking nonsense.
Modified by noteDhero, Jul 30, 2009 12:25 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:28 AM

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noteDhero said:
So...let me get this straight.

Battler dies, and knows he, and everyone else, died and gets transported back into time at some unspecific point, yet refuses to believe there is a witch? Then the witch appears before him after he says "I need to see the witch before I believe she exists" and still doesn't believe her? No matter what he says, the fact that a person just appeared right in front of him is inarguable. So there is a 19th person on the island. Battler has to be the dumbest main character I've ever encountered. And this premise seems to be the most pompous.

Basically the goal is to solve the riddle, but since Battler doesn't even believe in the witch, we can't solve the riddle. So we're going to spend inordinate amounts of time having to prove to Battler that Beatrice is real? Hopefully Jessica and George just kill Maria and Battler and starts to solve the riddle themselves.

Another thing is that Shannon and Kanon seem to have had some kind of knowledge regarding what was going to happen to them. I point to Shannon's hesitancy to accept George, and Kanon's, "We're just furniture" as proof. Maybe this is one big scheme on the part of Kinzo and Beatrice to determine the next head of the family/heir?

Honestly, the most interesting part of the episode was Bernkastel and Beatrice, but really, they were mostly just speaking nonsense.


Ha.. ha. You've already accepted the witch.
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:30 AM
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noteDhero said:
So...let me get this straight.

Battler dies, and knows he, and everyone else, died and gets transported back into time at some unspecific point, yet refuses to believe there is a witch? Then the witch appears before him after he says "I need to see the witch before I believe she exists" and still doesn't believe her? No matter what he says, the fact that a person just appeared right in front of him is inarguable. So there is a 19th person on the island. Battler has to be the dumbest main character I've ever encountered. And this premise seems to be the most pompous.

Basically the goal is to solve the riddle, but since Battler doesn't even believe in the witch, we can't solve the riddle. So we're going to spend inordinate amounts of time having to prove to Battler that Beatrice is real? Hopefully someone just kills Maria and Battler and starts to solve the riddle themselves.

Honestly, the most interesting part of the episode was Bernkastel and Beatrice, but really, they were mostly just speaking nonsense.


They didn't go back in time. The world that Battler is currently in is called purgatory (purgatorio), a world completely separate from the world that they died in. The nature of that world becomes clearer as the story progresses.

In any case, the premise of the story isn't to solve the riddle. The premise of the story is to prove that everything behind those deaths could be done by human hands. The riddle and the mystery of the murderer is secondary.
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:31 AM

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@Marth
I accepted her a while ago, if not episode one. I don't think there's anything funny about it, since, we as the viewer see her talking to Rika/Bernkastel. As far as I'm concerned, that makes her real, and any attempt to nullify that is just a dumb cop-out disguised as a twist.

@Insane
It would have been nice to hear about that in the show.

...so if Battler proves humans could do it, then it nullifies the epitaph and they get resurrected? Or are we just forgetting about that part?
Modified by noteDhero, Jul 30, 2009 12:35 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:31 AM

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Had to.


 
Jul 30, 2009 12:38 AM
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noteDhero said:
@Marth
I accepted her a while ago, if not episode one. I don't think there's anything funny about it, since, we as the viewer see her talking to Rika/Bernkastel. As far as I'm concerned, that makes her real, and any attempt to nullify that is just a dumb cop-out disguised as a twist.

@Insane
It would have been nice to hear about that in the show.


It's made clearer in the VN, but you don't really get to understand what's going in this world until a bit later. I haven't spoiled anything that you shouldn't already know, since things should be made clearer soon enough.

Additionally, don't believe everything that you see in this show. There is a lot of misleading going on at the moment, but I won't tell you how. It should also become apparent later on.
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:40 AM

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noteDhero said:
@Marth
I accepted her a while ago, if not episode one. I don't think there's anything funny about it, since, we as the viewer see her talking to Rika/Bernkastel. As far as I'm concerned, that makes her real, and any attempt to nullify that is just a dumb cop-out disguised as a twist.

@Insane
It would have been nice to hear about that in the show.

...so if Battler proves humans could do it, then it nullifies the epitaph and they get resurrected? Or are we just forgetting about that part?


Your way of thinking isn't necessarily wrong. There are two sides to the Umineko fanbase.

Anti-mystery. You believe the witch exists. Everything was done by her and magic. You root for Beatrice to make the stubborn Battler submit

Anti-fantasy. You don't believe the witch exists. Everything was done by humans and no magic was involved. You root for Battler to deny Beatrice's existence.

You've already taken belief in anti-mystery so there's no point trying to convince you otherwise. Most people are anti-fantasy though so you are in the minority.
Modified by LunarEmerald, Jul 30, 2009 12:45 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:43 AM

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MarthX said:


Your way of thinking isn't necessarily wrong. There are two sides to the Umineko fanbase.

Anti-mystery. You believe the witch exists. Everything was done by her and magic. You root for Beatrice to make the stubborn Battler submit

Anti-fantasy. You don't believe the witch exists. Everything was done by humans and no magic was involved. You root for Battler to deny Beatrice's existence.

You've already taken belief in anti-mystery so there's no point trying to convince you otherwise. Most people are anti-fantasy though so you are in the minority.

^
I was in the process of typing this but Marth did it before me and better than I would have. But yeah, that's basically the gist of it.
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:49 AM

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I see what you're saying, but there is also the fact that there is the mystery of Beatrice's riddle and where the gold is...which is more than enough fodder for a good mystery to me. I think the presence of Bernkastel leaves room for her to meddle a bit, but that's a different discussion.

But thanks for pointing out the factions...I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist, especially given the conversation with Bernkastel, and the supernatural elements of the Naku Koro Ni series, but oh wells.
 
Jul 30, 2009 12:55 AM
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noteDhero said:
I see what you're saying, but there is also the fact that there is the mystery of Beatrice's riddle and where the gold is...which is more than enough fodder for a good mystery to me. I think the presence of Bernkastel leaves room for her to meddle a bit, but that's a different discussion.

But thanks for pointing out the factions...I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist, especially given the conversation with Bernkastel, and the supernatural elements of the Naku Koro Ni series, but oh wells.


Trust me, the fanbase have long thrown away their ability to take anything for granted.
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:01 AM
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noteDhero said:
I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist


It's easy: Witches don't exist!

Part of the fun in this series is watching poor Battler squirm and get trolled senseless... even if you are on his side. He's kinda like Kaiji in a way.
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:04 AM

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I suppose I'm on the side of the anti-mystery fence. Given what we have, I currently find it rather difficult to believe otherwise. Perhaps that may change as the show progresses onwards and we get a tad bit more information.

Maybe the Bernkastel scene was supposed to be a curve ball to throw you in the wrong direction, but I find that very difficult to believe as well. At least for now.
Modified by Factor, Jul 30, 2009 1:10 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:14 AM

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Zedrane said:
Bern's VN model actually has boobs. For some reason they took them away in the anime and made her completely flat chested. :/

For awesome.
MarthX said:
Ha.. ha. You've already accepted the witch.

This is a Higurashi style/related paranormal show, it would be stupid not to.
And even if one didn't know the vein this show falls into and what it's related to, we're getting to the point non-paranormal possibility is becoming slimmer and slimmer.

All evidence at this point points to anyone taking the "anti-fantasy" position as being highly illogical. You'll be looking for mystery where there's no room. To me this just sounds like overanalyzing the alien aspect of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni.

And in Higurashi Rei Furude Rika conclusively admits to being the witch Bernkastel. And we're going to deny the canon existence of Hanyuu and Rika's repeated existence?

Sorry, but Anime doesn't like murder mysteries. Umineko included. It's a paranormal fantasy show just like everything else.

PlatinumHawke said:
It's easy: Witches don't exist!

So basically, the "anti-fantasy" side is just trolling and making fun of Battler's idiocy for teh lulz.

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:19 AM

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noteDhero said:
I see what you're saying, but there is also the fact that there is the mystery of Beatrice's riddle and where the gold is...which is more than enough fodder for a good mystery to me. I think the presence of Bernkastel leaves room for her to meddle a bit, but that's a different discussion.

But thanks for pointing out the factions...I don't really see how people can believe that she doesn't exist, especially given the conversation with Bernkastel, and the supernatural elements of the Naku Koro Ni series, but oh wells.
You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc.
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:19 AM

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Ara ara.

I'll just say this
Too much focus on boobs,
Maria has weird faces,
Battler is GAY !!!


Awesome episode and thank god I played the VN first.

 
Jul 30, 2009 1:20 AM

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ukonkivi said:

And in Higurashi Rei Furude Rika





Edit - Spoiler'd, just in case.
Modified by Factor, Jul 30, 2009 1:37 AM
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:24 AM
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ukonkivi said:
All evidence at this point points to anyone taking the "anti-fantasy" position as being highly illogical. You'll be looking for mystery where there's no room. To me this just sounds like overanalyzing the alien aspect of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni.


Oh, there's plenty of room to pick at, you just have to get creative. Very creative. If you've ever played the boardgame "Mind Trap," Umineko fits right into that line of thought. You can even refute one of the claims Beatrice made near the end of the episode.
 
Jul 30, 2009 1:26 AM

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Factor said:
ukonkivi said:

And in Higurashi Rei Furude Rika conclusively admits to being the witch Bernkastel. And we're going to deny the canon existence of Hanyuu and Rika's repeated existence?


Does anyone know exactly what episodes Rika says anything concerning Bernkastel? Not that I'm doubting the similarities here; it's fairly obvious they are of relation and/or the same person.


It's in episode 4 of Rei.

"It's time for me to give up being a witch... I must return to being Furude Rika, rather than the witch Bernkastel..."

Only time I've ever heard her mention the name.


 
Jul 30, 2009 1:29 AM

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Kantarou said:
You could think of it this way as well: Beatrice the Golden Witch exists, but the murders on Rokkenjima are committed by humans using her name and legend as a cover. The possibilities so far are endless until the answer arcs come out. That's all part of the fun, to guess what really occured in some scenes and etc.

Now THAT seems logical enough. At least more than the "anti-fantasy" thing mentioned before. If you believe that Beatrix possessed certain people and made them to kill others, you're still not anti-fantasy, you still accept the existence of both Beatrice the witch and magic.

I've suspected Maria of being possessed by Beatrice and committing the murders since the very beginning. Though even some of those situations it would be hard to place her in and doing. Such as Kanon's death. Which would take at least a fair amount of magic of her own. There was no visible person throwing the weapon and Kanon.

Factor said:
Does anyone know exactly what episodes Rika says anything concerning Bernkastel? Not that I'm doubting the similarities here; it's fairly obvious they are of relation and/or the same person.

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei episode 4. After Furude Rika wakes up in the hospital from a rather disturbing dream.

Edit: Apparently I got beaten to it.

PlatinumHawke said:
Oh, there's plenty of room to pick at, you just have to get creative. Very creative. If you've ever played the boardgame "Mind Trap," Umineko fits right into that line of thought. You can even refute one of the claims Beatrice made near the end of the episode.

Whether Beatrice lies or not, we're pretty much beyond most non-paranormal explanations here.

About the only thing that can redeem non-fantasy at this point is most of what happened in this entire episode to be complete hallucination.
Modified by ukonkivi, Jul 30, 2009 1:32 AM

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