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Poll: Ookami to Koushinryou II Episode 3 Discussion


Jun 13, 2014 2:45 PM

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Goddamn, nothing is going right for Lawrence. I feel so bad, he was only trying to do the right thing.
Life has meaning.
 
Jul 21, 2014 9:22 PM

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FFFFFFFFFFFFF
I hate it when people just don't talk their problems out! Though I know -- understand -- that it is a very Japanese thing to do, to avoid full-on fighting, so when actual fight starts most would handle it like Lawrence -- by freezing, hoping the problem goes away after the outburst. Doesn't mean I can't still hate it.

Fantastic episode otherwise. The music especially: that heart wrenching moment? Extremely powerful due to music choice.
 
Nov 26, 2014 1:05 PM

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^I agree with the "talking it out" sentiment, even though it was pretty understandable how things played out.

I don't think Lawrence did anything wrong by accepting the contract; Holo didn't have a problem with it either until the whole hometown thing came up. Also, I don't really consider Amanty to be a "bad guy". He's knows what he wants and he's pursuing it. He likely sees himself as doing something admirable, and it's not hard to see why he would think so.

In any case, I had a feeling there would be a falling out when Holo found out about her homeland. I don't blame Lawrence for not telling her (well, not entirely). It's easy to judge when you have an outside perspective. He thinks first and foremost with his brain rather than his heart, and at times he tends to overthink things and get himself into trouble. This is such a situation.

I don't think Holo was wrong to react the way she did. She has feared loneliness from the beginning, and she's been focused on her homeland from the beginning. To lose that so suddenly, and to find out the one she came to depend on was hiding it from her, an emotional response is quite believable. She was jumping to conclusions rather quickly, but that's how people tend to react when they're emotional, so again, it's understandable.

What I'm more interested in is what this outburst has revealed about Holo, namely that she still doesn't trust Lawrence even though she cares about him. She lied about being able to read, and her comment about having a child shows that she doesn't consider Lawrence as someone "with" her. She still thinks of herself as being alone.

I can't help but wonder if this is baggage from the first person Holo traveled with.

It was an intense and well-crafted episode.
 
Dec 1, 2014 10:54 PM

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Woah.. What a sudden turn of events.. Things just got serious in 4+ minutes or so.. I guess this is the first roadblock of their relationship.. Loving the developments but at the same time quite saddening.. After that event, next EP would definitely be interesting..
 
Jan 27, 2015 12:38 PM

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I don't like this at all, I don't like where it's going. I don't want to see Holo ending with that Amarty, heck, I even feel betrayed. I am also quite pissed, and, as others pointed out, Holo just acted quite childlish.
I still have this assumption that she will end with Amarty in the end, and I don't like that! -.-
 
Feb 10, 2015 4:56 AM
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I was quite surprised at Holo's reaction. Despite her occasional "childishness", you can always count on her going back to being the wise old wolf. So seeing her flip out like that felt almost a tad out of character.
Having said that, Lawrence really should be more honest and forthright in his communication to her. Specially his feeling for her. He cannot solve every little thing with just merchant wisdom and analogies. Not everything can be bought, sold and exchanged.
I hate the Amarty guy. What a meddlesome little busybody. I would have torn the contract up if I was Lawrence.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov

 
Mar 1, 2015 1:25 AM

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Outburst was kinda quirky but reasonable.

Loved the festival part though I wished there was more to it.
 
Mar 15, 2015 8:22 AM

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Not cool Holo, not cool.
 
Mar 19, 2015 1:40 PM
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Great episode, leaves me with high expectations on next one. Holo's reaction was reasonable, espiecially that she mentioned earlier that she doesn't want to end up alone. Infromation like that must really have got to her
 
Apr 6, 2015 9:51 PM

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This episode broke my heart.
 
May 3, 2015 12:04 PM

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My god, it was so sad to see Horo broken like that in the end. This second season have been so good so far.
 
May 8, 2015 8:32 AM

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Ugh, I knew him hiding that information from her would end up blowing up in his face. Holo's reaction was really quite heartbreaking, I felt so bad for her :(. The preview is also not looking to good for Lawrence, I hate that douchey little blond kid >_<.
Modified by Shape430, May 8, 2015 8:39 AM
 
Jun 10, 2015 10:00 PM

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Fuck this amarty maggot...jealous prick >.<
 
Jul 27, 2015 4:46 PM

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Lawrence, the strange man who rejected a horny Horo
 
Jul 27, 2015 8:33 PM
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Find it funny that people are defending Lawrence and rejecting Horo. While Horo is being childish, it's not like Lawrence is a shiny example of honor or something.

With all the "merchant skills" that Lawrence is supposed to have, he sure appear to have little ability to apply them when he needs them.
 
Oct 14, 2015 5:53 PM

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This season is waaaaaay more interesting than last season. I'm glad I kept watching.
"It's a tragic misunderstanding that could have been easily avoided if he just finished his sentence in time!"

— Richard Watterson (The Amazing World of Gumball)
 
Jan 4, 2016 4:16 PM
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I thought she was going change to wolf and kill him hahaha!!!
 
Jan 25, 2016 10:24 PM

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"You will have to mate with me!"

I would jump on that opportunity in a heartbeat, Holo acting crazy or not.

Things really got a bit crazy this episode. Reminds me why this show is a solid 8 despite my occasional boredom at the business side.
"No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!"
 
Jun 1, 2016 1:22 PM

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Man, is Lawrence retarded or what? You don't just stand there repeating the name of the person you're talking to over and over again. I like drama as much as the next person but when characters are this stupid it makes it unbearable.
 
Aug 2, 2016 3:42 AM

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This episode was painful to watch. Totally didn't expect Holo to have a mental breakdown like that. Finding out that you might be the last of your kind would be shocking for anyone I think. So much so that it seems like her natural instincts got the better of her, which is why she wanted to mate with Lawrence. I remember reading somewhere something about animals wanting to reproduce when they feel threatened or something like that. Which would kinda explain why Holo said such a thing. Lawrence not speaking up didn't really help the situation either but oh well I guess.

Also fuck Amarty. Seriously, this guy seems like an absolute prick.
 
Jan 31, 2017 10:26 PM

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I liked the reveal of the bear in these episodes. This conflict keeps on going. Nice journey anime.
 
Nov 7, 2017 8:11 AM

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ZetaZeta said:
Lawrence needs to use Geass on Horo, and fast.


Well, I think he(Lelouch's VA) already did on Horo(Kallen's VA in Code Geass). Anyway, at least Kallen could make him feel shitty by repeating the same thing that he did when he said her to comfort him in Code Geass.
Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate.


I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death.

 
Jan 14, 2018 2:13 PM

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The only reason this is going badly for Lawrence is because he is a dumbass.

She didn't run out of the room. He could have closed the door and calmly explained everything from his point of view. She can tell whether or not he is lying.

OR

He could just admit his feelings, whatever feelings he does have (even early on in season 1 it was obvious he cares about her and is attracted to her) and then BANG HER AND NOT STOP FOR 5 WEEKS BECAUSE DAT ASS!

Like seriously. He is a dumbass. I like this series so far, but it is missing something, and now it's missing something else. Lawrence just went from being an interesting merchant to a generic dense anime protagonist.
Omne Solum Forti Patria
 
Jan 14, 2018 5:38 PM
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Hraktuus said:
The only reason this is going badly for Lawrence is because he is a dumbass.


Yes, people who have emotional issues often behave stupidly from the perspective of an outsider (Holo isn't immune from it either, as she amply demonstrates in this very same arc). Spice and Wolf is probably going to be a frustrating watch if you aren't willing to get into the character's heads or read between the lines.
 
Jan 15, 2018 6:17 PM

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BashZeStampeedo said:
Hraktuus said:
The only reason this is going badly for Lawrence is because he is a dumbass.


Yes, people who have emotional issues often behave stupidly from the perspective of an outsider (Holo isn't immune from it either, as she amply demonstrates in this very same arc). Spice and Wolf is probably going to be a frustrating watch if you aren't willing to get into the character's heads or read between the lines.


Um... no. Just no. Lawrence has already been demonstrated to be an intelligent character who already knows Holo's personality and how to handle her. I don't care how worked up you are, in a situation like that someone that intelligent and with his personality type wouldn't just walk out of the room. They would make their point-of-view heard. It isn't believable behavior from Lawrence's character.

You're also acting as if I haven't already watched season 1. Pretty weird argument. Just because you like a show doesn't mean the writing is always going to be perfect. None of the show except for this arc of season 2 has been like this. It was a bad drawn out hiccup in an otherwise good show. Clearly you like the arc regardless, so we can just agree to disagree.
Omne Solum Forti Patria
 
Jan 15, 2018 8:03 PM
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Hraktuus said:
I don't care how worked up you are, in a situation like that someone that intelligent and with his personality type wouldn't just walk out of the room. They would make their point-of-view heard. It isn't believable behavior from Lawrence's character.


I guess if you're willing to set aside his obvious self-confidence issues when it comes to anything outside of business (as well as in business, given his recent near-bankruptcy), as well as ignore that he's never actually been able to handle Holo when she angrily corners him, then sure. To me it sounds more like you just think he should have gotten angry, and are upset that he didn't. Even when the show has demonstrated that getting angry like that just isn't in his nature. (I also have to wonder why Holo gets a pass from you despite being just as dumb this arc, but that's a different topic).

Hraktuus said:
You're also acting as if I haven't already watched season 1. Pretty weird argument. Just because you like a show doesn't mean the writing is always going to be perfect. None of the show except for this arc of season 2 has been like this. It was a bad drawn out hiccup in an otherwise good show. Clearly you like the arc regardless, so we can just agree to disagree.


It's honestly not about whether you like it or not. You're pretty much supposed to dislike how Lawrence (and Holo) are behaving in this arc. It's meant to be frustrating. And even so there are plenty of reasons to dislike it regardless. I just question your analysis of his character and his behavior. It kind of does seem like you missed key details about his character, whether you actually watched season one or not.
 
Jan 15, 2018 8:12 PM

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BashZeStampeedo said:
Hraktuus said:
I don't care how worked up you are, in a situation like that someone that intelligent and with his personality type wouldn't just walk out of the room. They would make their point-of-view heard. It isn't believable behavior from Lawrence's character.


I guess if you're willing to set aside his obvious self-confidence issues when it comes to anything outside of business (as well as in business, given his recent near-bankruptcy), as well as ignore that he's never actually been able to handle Holo when she angrily corners him, then sure. To me it sounds more like you just think he should have gotten angry, and are upset that he didn't. Even when the show has demonstrated that getting angry like that just isn't in his nature. (I also have to wonder why Holo gets a pass from you despite being just as dumb this arc, but that's a different topic).

Hraktuus said:
You're also acting as if I haven't already watched season 1. Pretty weird argument. Just because you like a show doesn't mean the writing is always going to be perfect. None of the show except for this arc of season 2 has been like this. It was a bad drawn out hiccup in an otherwise good show. Clearly you like the arc regardless, so we can just agree to disagree.


It's honestly not about whether you like it or not. You're pretty much supposed to dislike how Lawrence (and Holo) are behaving in this arc. It's meant to be frustrating. And even so there are plenty of reasons to dislike it regardless. I just question your analysis of his character and his behavior. It kind of does seem like you missed key details about his character, whether you actually watched season one or not.


You're making far too many assumptions about what I want from the characters or what I think about the characters, and you're also acting as if you are some sort of expert on the show. I have a different interpretation than you, and I'm not going to argue with you when you make assumptions without basis. Just accept it and move along. And seriously, learn how to debate without resorting to fallacies.
Omne Solum Forti Patria
 
Jan 15, 2018 8:37 PM
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Hraktuus said:
You're making far too many assumptions about what I want from the characters or what I think about the characters, and you're also acting as if you are some sort of expert on the show. I have a different interpretation than you, and I'm not going to argue with you when you make assumptions without basis. Just accept it and move along. And seriously, learn how to debate without resorting to fallacies.


We never even had a "debate", so there was no room for any related "fallacies". Of course I'm going to move on if you don't want to even have a discussion, but then maybe you should not be posting on a discussion forum in the first place. Make a blog if you just want to shout at the world, and don't have the courage to back up your opinions. Or better still, just watch some more anime instead.
 
Jan 16, 2018 9:33 AM

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BashZeStampeedo said:
Hraktuus said:
You're making far too many assumptions about what I want from the characters or what I think about the characters, and you're also acting as if you are some sort of expert on the show. I have a different interpretation than you, and I'm not going to argue with you when you make assumptions without basis. Just accept it and move along. And seriously, learn how to debate without resorting to fallacies.


We never even had a "debate", so there was no room for any related "fallacies". Of course I'm going to move on if you don't want to even have a discussion, but then maybe you should not be posting on a discussion forum in the first place. Make a blog if you just want to shout at the world, and don't have the courage to back up your opinions. Or better still, just watch some more anime instead.


Dude, you were rude and made assumptions about what I was thinking. Maybe change how you talk to people if you don't want responses like this. I've posted far more on these forums and have a good record of what I've watched, so you hardly have room to talk. I'd be plenty willing to back up everything I said to someone who didn't make assumptions and talked politely. I will likely discuss these very same things with someone who is far more of a narcissist than you, but the difference is he knows how to discuss such things hence I can respect him.

EDIT: To make it absolutely clear, it's not worth my time making an argument to defend my points if all of your responses are going to make assumptions. I said A and you assumed that must mean I thought B when I really thought C. After it was clear you would keep responding in that fashion, I lost interest. You will keep getting negative responses if you don't change this. Good luck on the internet, dude.
Modified by Hraktuus, Jan 16, 2018 9:44 AM
Omne Solum Forti Patria
 
Jan 16, 2018 11:54 AM
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Hraktuus said:
Dude, you were rude and made assumptions about what I was thinking.


You outright stated that Lawrence was a dumbass for not doing what you personally think he should have done, including that he "just went from being an interesting merchant to a generic dense anime protagonist." I challenged that Spice and Wolf would likely be a frustrating watch if you didn't pay close enough attention to their characterization (because the story hadn't established him to be that kind of character). *You* decided to assume that it was meant as a rude attack that you hadn't even watched the first season, which was never the case. Despite that, your follow-up continued hinting that you in fact weren't paying very close attention while watching season one:

Hraktuus said:
in a situation like that someone that intelligent and with his personality type wouldn't just walk out of the room. They would make their point-of-view heard. It isn't believable behavior from Lawrence's character.


Just episodes prior to this one it was made clear that Lawrence is *not* that personality type. In the previous arc he didn't make his opinions heard the way you claim he would. He *almost* lashed out at Holo in his darkest moment but bit his tongue, feeling bad about "unfairly" taking it out on her, then went off to atone for his perceived mistakes. When was he ever that other kind of character, or why would he suddenly become one in these story circumstances?

Hraktuus said:
To make it absolutely clear, it's not worth my time making an argument to defend my points if all of your responses are going to make assumptions.


Please follow your own advice. Start the conversation politely in your initial comment, and don't assume that people are making a rude personal attack just because they challenged your own assumptions in a way that you don't immediately like. I'll try to be as inoffensive as I can next time. Hope you'll follow suit.
 
Feb 14, 2:29 PM

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I swear the extreme contrasts are going to kill me. First we got cute Holo all excited waging with her tail cause she wanted to dance, but then



DRAMA

Intense episode, had goosebumps.
Kokoro did nothing wrong.

 
Apr 24, 3:52 PM

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Woah... Holo went crazy mode this time. I hope things will go well...


 
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