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Poll: Umineko no Naku Koro ni Episode 4 Discussion


Jul 29, 2009 7:23 AM

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When I say "explanation" I mean I want explanation behind the behaviour of characters. I mean come on, Maria is seriously annoying me. If her behaviour is not creatively explained to me, I'm gonna be pissed. I mean the only character right now that I'm somewhat satisfied with is the blonde's mother.


Maria fantasies about witches and wants to be one. It's not unusual for a kid her age to have a wish like that. Witches use magic so naturally Maria studies all things magic so she can become a witch. Maria doesn't see studying witch craft as a negative thing, it's something she enjoys and brings her happiness. It's explained in episode 4 why Maria isn't concerned with people dying. The epitaph says everyone will be brought back and Maria fully trusts the witch and the epitaph. More about Maria will be explained later.

One thing to note: Maria doesn't have those distorted faces in the visual novel. In the visual novel, her creepy side is her being smug and condescending. "You don't even know what this? Don't you read the bible? Kihihihihi" She talks down to everyone as if they're the child that knows nothing.

Yeaa unless Higurashi has some thought provoking thing going on and not some crazy girl with issues she can't handle...I'm not going to call that psychological. Just because someone goes insane, doesn't mean it's psychological - hopefully I would know a good handful of what it is since I'm studying in that area. If you want something truly psychological hmmmm try...Ergo Proxy. That series blows my mind.


Higurashi is very thought provoking. Honestly, whatever scene you saw was one of the few like that in the entire series. There's maybe 6 scenes like that total. Judging Higurashi based off that one scene really skews your perception of the series.
 
Jul 29, 2009 7:24 AM

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Zedrane said:
Robby, not even the VN readers know the solutions to the murders in any of the question arcs. The answer arcs aren't out yet. The murderer could be Beatrice, any of the 18, or frankly knowing Ryukishi07 it could be Ronald McDonald.
LOL~ now why are you bullying Ryukishi07 :P

Well it's not so much of me wanting to know the solutions to the murders, it's more like...right now the story just seems so forced because the characters are just so fake themselves. And I say the characters seem fake to me because I'm used to learning SOME background info or knowledge bheind the characters so I can know them a little bit. So when they do die, I at least feel a bit sympathetic you know?

Also, I didn't mention in the pervious posts, but please don't hesitate in telling me what happens with Higurashi since i don't plan on watching it (but still put it in spoiler tags cuz other people may want to watch it)

MarthX said:
Maria fantasies about witches and wants to be one. It's not unusual for a kid her age have a wish like that. Witches use magic so naturally Maria studies all things magic so she can become a witch. Maria doesn't see studying witch craft as a negative thing, it's something she enjoys and brings her happiness. It's explained in episode 4 why Maria isn't concerned with people dying. The epitaph says everyone will be brought back and Maria fully trusts the witch and the epitaph. More about Maria will be explained later.

One thing to note: Maria doesn't have those distorted faces in the visual novel. In the visual novel, her creepy side is her being smug and condescending. "You don't even know what this? Don't you read the bible? Kihihihihi" She talks down to everyone as if they're the child that knows nothing.

Yeaa unless Higurashi has some thought provoking thing going on and not some crazy girl with issues she can't handle...I'm not going to call that psychological. Just because someone goes insane, doesn't mean it's psychological - hopefully I would know a good handful of what it is since I'm studying in that area. If you want something truly psychological hmmmm try...Ergo Proxy. That series blows my mind.


Higurashi is very thought provoking. Honestly, whatever scene you saw was one of the few like that in the entire series. There's maybe 6 scenes like that total. Judging Higurashi based off that one scene really skews your perception of the series.


As much as I appreciate your explanation with Maria - I didn't know she WANTS to BE a witch. It still however doesn't explain her twisted "multiple peersonality disorder" like behaviour. One moment she's this cute innocent child, then in another moment she's this lil brat. I rather they stay consistent with her brat nature. Her cute side now is just really annoying becuase you know she's a condescending lil brat.

As for Higurashi, oh I know very well my opinion is very biased XD!! So please do not hesitate in telling me how it's psychological and not physical. Because from that one scene and from what I heard from people - it's mostly about the blood and gore. And really?! 6 scenes? That's crazy, I consider that a lot in a series man hahahaha
Modified by robbydesu, Jul 29, 2009 7:37 AM
 
Jul 29, 2009 7:38 AM

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robbydesu said:
Well it's not so much of me wanting to know the solutions tot he murders, it's more like...right now the story just seems so forced because the characters are just so fake themselves. And I say the characters seem fake to me because I'm used to learning SOME background info or knowledge bheind the characters so I can know them a little bit. So when they do die, I at least feel a bit sympathetic you know?

Also, I didn't mention in the pervious posts, but please don't hesitate in telling me what happens with Higurashi since i don't plan on watching it (but still put it in spoiler tags cuz other people may want to watch it)


Honestly, I think that Deen is going to skimp on the character background and development as much as possibly (they already have). The way I figure is they can't skip any of the mystery/theory scenes, those are vital to the extremely complicated plot. In fact, there are so many scenes that they really, really can't skip they are going to have to throw tons of character development out the window.

They are trying to make something that could easily use 50ish episodes into a single 26 episode season, after all. If you want character background I suggest reading the VN.
 
Jul 29, 2009 7:43 AM

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As much as I appreciate your explanation with Maria - I didn't know she WANTS to BE a witch. It still however doesn't explain her twisted "multiple peersonality disorder" like behaviour. One moment she's this cute innocent child, then in another moment she's this lil brat. I rather they stay consistent with her brat nature. Her cute side now is just really annoying becuase you know she's a condescending lil brat.


Maria plays an integral role in the plot. Why she developed that personality hasn't really been explained yet. It's part of the mystery of the series.

6 scenes? That's crazy, I consider that a lot in a series man hahahaha


6 scenes for a 50 episode series is nothing. 6 scenes wouldn't even make 1 episode. Most of the 6 scenes are not even a minute long.
 
Jul 29, 2009 7:50 AM

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For those that want to know about the characters

http://www.krycek.net/umineko/

Translated profiles off the official anime site. Doesn't contain any real spoilers. Just basic info that was skimped by DEEN.
 
Jul 29, 2009 9:38 AM
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robbydesu said:
I'm not going to call that psychological. Just because someone goes insane, doesn't mean it's psychological - hopefully I would know a good handful of what it is since I'm studying in that area.

Okay, I also specialize in psychology, and find Higurashi utterly psychological.

As I have mentioned in my previous post, an adjective "psychological" describing Higurashi or Umineko doesn't refer to its contents or plot or characters, etc. It is a problem of the inner process within the reader's mind, which the meta-structure of the story produces.
The main theme which both Higurashi and Umineko shares is that "How these disasters/massacres can be avoided?" and "Who can be trusted?".
And if you simply find Maria as psychologically broken down figure, you are completely fooled by the author. She is designed to be fishy.

Even if I write down the outline of Higurashi here, it would completely fail to convey the psychological experience of the reader.
Unless you want to think what's going on without being explained, these animes are unsuitable for you, I think.
 
Jul 29, 2009 10:45 AM

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Drunk_Samurai said:
robbydesu said:
Ugh, I was really hoping it won't go the Higurashi route (I didn't watch it and never will - especially not when a friend showed me a tasteless violent scene from it)


Favorite Anime
Cardcaptor Sakura

...lol

Go back to watching Pokemon.



robbydesu said:
6 scenes? That's crazy, I consider that a lot in a series man hahahaha


Yeah seriously. Don't watch anything with violence in it.

 
Jul 29, 2009 10:48 AM
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I would just like to say that character deaths become sadder and sadder every episode/arc.

Also, its very fun seeing how the fake roulette spins and spins...

Higurashi definitely was a bit creepy when it came to the horror scenes. I think I stalled the anime for about two years once I finished watching Watanagashi-hen, because I was completely scared shitless. Though, I can now laugh them off. Somewhat. Barely.

And just to say, Maria is about 9 years old. Sure, kids her age would be interested in witches, fortune telling etc, but Maria takes it on an insanely different level. I mean come on, she probably knows how to read and speak Hebrew. That's creepy.

She's still cute though.
 
Jul 29, 2009 10:51 AM

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I'm sorry, there seem to be way too many people putting Higurashi and Umineko on too high of a pedestal. Now, I'm unfamiliar with either of the two's source material, so I honestly believe that I can speak from a less biased place when we talk about the shows.

Yes. Higurashi did have a few levels of violence that was totally tasteless. Was it Elfen Lied level? No, but it was taken much more seriously in Higurashi than in Elfen Lied where they would make jokes about a girls limbs falling off. The violence is also an important part of the story, and used to characterize the level of insanity that contaminates most of the characters, so while it was a lot, it only really crossed the line for me a couple of times (and that's only because the question arcs were too long).

Umineko has turned out just as you said, robby. Despite all of the protestations, for those who have played the vn, the show does little right (that you are captivated by the character designs is something I disagree with) in setting up an actual mystery. But the history that a lot of the viewers have with Higurashi is a lot of what keeps us tuned in: we feel like it will get better, so we let a lot of what's gone on slide.

You can't really pull off a mystery when you don't characterize anyone, except for the passive main character and Maria, lamely. How then do you build suspense? How then do you create red herrings? You're just basically hedging all of your bets on the plot.

And I'm going to disagree, hopperjp. Higurashi was not really psychological. It was much more philosophical. Because of the real culprit of the crimes, the blame was never squarely on someone's psychological state, and throughout the first season, it becomes very clear that "who can be trusted" was just because of the roll of the dice, and not because of any set history of a character. Those questions that you posed in Higurashi were more like, "Why are these bad things happening to these children?" "Why is the world the way it is," etc. I think Kai and Rei do a really good job of wrapping up those questions, but the first Higurashi was more of a thriller wrapped around a horror.

But yeah, robby. If you don't like mysteries spiced up with brutality, then Umineko doesn't seem to be your type of show. If you are still interested though, I say watch Higurashi and Higurashi Kai to see why some people (including myself) still have faith in Umineko.
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:04 AM

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noteDhero said:


Yes. Higurashi did have a few levels of violence that was totally tasteless.


How can anybody seriously be stupid enough to say that Higurashi had tasteless violence?
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:06 AM

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Drunk_Samurai said:
noteDhero said:


Yes. Higurashi did have a few levels of violence that was totally tasteless.


How can anybody seriously be stupid enough to say that Higurashi had tasteless violence?


Well, that one scene was a bit much. (Crazy ass Shion stabbing Satoko) And that Rika scene was borderline.
Modified by DrZed, Jul 29, 2009 11:11 AM
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:12 AM

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Zedrane said:
Drunk_Samurai said:
noteDhero said:


Yes. Higurashi did have a few levels of violence that was totally tasteless.


How can anybody seriously be stupid enough to say that Higurashi had tasteless violence?


Well, that one scene was a bit much. (Crazy ass Shion stabbing Satoko) And that Rika scene was borderline.


Tasteless violence means violence for no reason. It's obvious there was no tasteless violence in Higurashi.
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:17 AM

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Drunk_Samurai said:
Zedrane said:
Drunk_Samurai said:
noteDhero said:


Yes. Higurashi did have a few levels of violence that was totally tasteless.


How can anybody seriously be stupid enough to say that Higurashi had tasteless violence?


Well, that one scene was a bit much. (Crazy ass Shion stabbing Satoko) And that Rika scene was borderline.


Tasteless violence means violence for no reason. It's obvious there was no tasteless violence in Higurashi.


I think your getting your words mixed up. Violence for no real reason is called pointless violence. Tasteless violence is violence that goes a little too far to the point of being tasteless. In other words, it just didn't need to be THAT gory or THAT bloody. Look up the word tasteless in the dictionary.
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:29 AM

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Zedrane said:
Drunk_Samurai said:
Zedrane said:
Drunk_Samurai said:
noteDhero said:


Yes. Higurashi did have a few levels of violence that was totally tasteless.


How can anybody seriously be stupid enough to say that Higurashi had tasteless violence?


Well, that one scene was a bit much. (Crazy ass Shion stabbing Satoko) And that Rika scene was borderline.


Tasteless violence means violence for no reason. It's obvious there was no tasteless violence in Higurashi.


I think your getting your words mixed up. Violence for no real reason is called pointless violence. Tasteless violence is violence that goes a little too far to the point of being tasteless. In other words, it just didn't need to be THAT gory or THAT bloody. Look up the word tasteless in the dictionary.


Yes it does. It doesn't matter how bad it gets. It is nothing compared to other media. Who cares anyway? People who say something is tasteless violence should go watch their shoujo.
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:31 AM

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Very good episode!

Waiting the final of the arc =)

Kouta~
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:37 AM

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noteDhero said:
This, and Maria still annoys the hell out of me. Ah well the ending is getting catchier by the second. Show is a 6/10 so far.

 
Jul 29, 2009 12:22 PM

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Drunk_Samurai said:

Yes it does. It doesn't matter how bad it gets. It is nothing compared to other media. Who cares anyway? People who say something is tasteless violence should go watch their shoujo.


Ha! If Higurashi is within your acceptable levels of violence, then so be it, but don't be surprised that seeing a girl ram herself into a knife, and a few of the other scenes, could possibly be beyond anyone's threshold. If you think this is nothing compared to other media, then I'd have you take a second look. How many times have you seen a little girl do something like that outside of anime?

But regardless, it's very amusing that you hone in on one point of a much larger argument I was making. I'm mature enough to appreciate all genres for what they bring to the table, not for what they don't.
 
Jul 29, 2009 12:42 PM

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Geez man, I'm gone for like 5 hours and there's already a few people being all touchy touchy about my opinions.

Zedrane said:
Honestly, I think that Deen is going to skimp on the character background and development as much as possibly (they already have). The way I figure is they can't skip any of the mystery/theory scenes, those are vital to the extremely complicated plot. In fact, there are so many scenes that they really, really can't skip they are going to have to throw tons of character development out the window.

They are trying to make something that could easily use 50ish episodes into a single 26 episode season, after all. If you want character background I suggest reading the VN.

It's really too bad that Studio DEEN is making this anime, they've also skimped out and messed up 07-ghost. Here's the problem, regardless of the fact that the the VN has more info (and I'm not denying that there isn't, books/novels are usually always better than adaptations imho)..it's the fact that Studio DEEN choose to skimp out on us. I mean, maybe if they made a longer series it would've been better :(

MarthX said:
Maria plays an integral role in the plot. Why she developed that personality hasn't really been explained yet. It's part of the mystery of the series.

6 scenes for a 50 episode series is nothing. 6 scenes wouldn't even make 1 episode. Most of the 6 scenes are not even a minute long.
I'm not saying that Maria doesn't play a significant role in the plot, it's pretty obvious from the very first episode that she is. I just don't like this whole switcheroo of personality, it just doesn't make sense and I don't think it's necessary. If she had just been the evil little monster that she is - I wouldn't be so bothered by it. Hopefully her switching personality will be thoroughly explained in the VN. Hopefully...

I thought Higurashi was 26 episodes..? Regarding the 6 scenes, then again it really depends on what sort of violent scenes they are. If they are all similar to the one I saw (I really should go find that video..) then yea..I think it's way too much and yea...not necessary. If it's not then...I dunno, I have to see. It's not like I'm all EWWW BLOOD AND GORE. I love blood and gore - but there's got to be some substantial meaning behind it.

Drunk_Samurai said:

Favorite Anime
Cardcaptor Sakura

...lol

Go back to watching Pokemon.

Yeah seriously. Don't watch anything with violence in it.


Wait what? Am I back in first grade or something? Oh no waaaaait..

Seriously though, I see no relevance in bringing up one of my favourite animes.

Hold on a second, noteDhero - is this another troll?

- - - - -

Yeaaaa I don't know what else to say, as always I agree with most of what noteDhero is saying.

It's not like I don't like violence, I just don't like it if it's pointless or tasteless. I'm pretty sure the storyline is great, I just don't like how Studio DEEN presented some things (and if those things are presented correctly...theeeen eerr, I do have a problem with the specific detail/storyline or character)

Anyone read the manga "Doubt"? From the same author who created Higurashi and Umineko. Also sort of a murder mystery. I loved it, there was a few blood and gore - but it was done tastefully. Although it still had some flaws like plot holes and of course character info/development (although in comparison to Umineko anime, it's better).
Modified by robbydesu, Jul 29, 2009 12:46 PM
 
Jul 29, 2009 12:49 PM

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I wanna some Beatrice DX
Beatrice against Battler!!!
ah! moooo~

It is quite sad that Kanon died.. I quite liked his pretty face X3
 
Jul 29, 2009 12:50 PM

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He walks the fine line of being a troll. If I remember correctly there have been quite a few times where he has intelligent points and arguments to make. But then there are times like these. I take it with a grain of salt, since it seems like he has a hair trigger on shows that he just out and out loves.
 
Jul 29, 2009 12:53 PM

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noteDhero said:
He walks the fine line of being a troll. If I remember correctly there have been quite a few times where he has intelligent points and arguments to make. But then there are times like these. I take it with a grain of salt, since it seems like he has a hair trigger on shows that he just out and out loves.
That's understandable, I got pretty defensive when it comes to TRC or like 07-ghost *cough* >_>.

I just get so ticked off at how some people like to needlessly attack a person instead of the opinion itself.
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:01 PM

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On another note, I think you brought up a really good question: Why is it that Studio Deen only does the minimal amount of work to produce an adaptation? I feel like eveything that I've see of theirs (except maybe Higurashi) would have been better if a more competent/capable studio had produced it. They seem to have a stance that "The fans will watch it so it doesn't really matter."
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:02 PM

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noteDhero said:
On another note, I think you brought up a really good question: Why is it that Studio Deen only does the minimal amount of work to produce an adaptation? I feel like eveything that I've see of theirs would have been better if a more competent/capable studio had produced it. They seem to have a stance that "The fans will watch it so it doesn't really matter."
Another interesting thing to note is that the manga isn't even done - so Studio DEEN is bound to create a original anime ending. God knows what they'll bring o__o..
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:13 PM

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robbydesu said:
noteDhero said:
On another note, I think you brought up a really good question: Why is it that Studio Deen only does the minimal amount of work to produce an adaptation? I feel like eveything that I've see of theirs would have been better if a more competent/capable studio had produced it. They seem to have a stance that "The fans will watch it so it doesn't really matter."
Another interesting thing to note is that the manga isn't even done - so Studio DEEN is bound to create a original anime ending. God knows what they'll bring o__o..


Nah, the plot is gonna be the same as the VN. DEEN is just gonna skimp on a lot of stuff.
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:16 PM

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Yeah, judging off of everything that has been said, with this season being 26 episodes and (I think) the answer arcs being finished by the end of this year, everything should be fine.
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:20 PM

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noteDhero said:
Yeah, judging off of everything that has been said, with this season being 26 episodes and (I think) the answer arcs being finished by the end of this year, everything should be fine.


Answer arcs will be finished end of next year. Only the first two of the four answer arcs are coming out this year. None of the answer arcs are actually out quite yet, not till August 15th :D.
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:27 PM

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That's like Higurashi, right? Weren't two (or one) of the answer arcs at the end of the first series? So then that means that the second series most likely won't be out until 2011, unless there will be a few ova's to hold over.
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:36 PM

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noteDhero said:
That's like Higurashi, right? Weren't two (or one) of the answer arcs at the end of the first series? So then that means that the second series most likely won't be out until 2011, unless there will be a few ova's to hold over.


Yeah, the first season of Higurashi had the four question arcs and the first two answer arcs. Umineko is hella' longer though. The first season of Umineko is just gonna be the four question arcs. Presumably the second season will be the four answer arcs.

As for when the second season airs, it has to be at least 2011. The last answer arc comes out like November or December 2010. Only way it could be earlier is if the second season only had the first two answer arcs. Highly unlikely.
 
Jul 29, 2009 1:40 PM

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Yes, Higurashi contained all four Question arcs of the VN, and then the first 2 answer arcs.
As for Umineko, the four question arcs are allready out and the schedule for the answer arcs should be as follows:
August 09 - Arc 1
December 09 - Arc 2
August 10 - Arc 3
December 10 - Arc 4

So assuming a 26 episode series the most they could include would be the question arcs and the first answer arc. Although I'm inclined to think it will just include the question arcs.
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:03 PM

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As for Umineko, the four question arcs are allready out and the schedule for the answer arcs should be as follows:
August 09 - Arc 1
December 09 - Arc 2
August 10 - Arc 3
December 10 - Arc 4


what the hell? >:-< i dont wanna wait over a year to know what happened in this crazy series :/;/;/;/;/;/
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:07 PM

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Neilikki said:
As for Umineko, the four question arcs are allready out and the schedule for the answer arcs should be as follows:
August 09 - Arc 1
December 09 - Arc 2
August 10 - Arc 3
December 10 - Arc 4


what the hell? >:-< i dont wanna wait over a year to know what happened in this crazy series :/;/;/;/;/;/
lol XD..I feel your pain
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:22 PM

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They killed my Kanon.:<

Psalm 107:16
for he breaks down gates of bronze and cuts through bars of iron.

Old avatar and sig retired for now.
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:29 PM

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Quick FYI for y'all I just watched the raw of Ep 5 and it is an almost perfect adaption of that segment in the VN. Way better than any of the previous episodes. Voice acting seemed to get better as well. I have great hope in DEEN again. If they keep up what they did with Ep 5 for the next 21 episodes I will have no complaints about them ever again.
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:43 PM

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Zedrane said:
Quick FYI for y'all I just watched the raw of Ep 5 and it is an almost perfect adaption of that segment in the VN. Way better than any of the previous episodes. Voice acting seemed to get better as well. I have great hope in DEEN again. If they keep up what they did with Ep 5 for the next 21 episodes I will have no complaints about them ever again.
Great news! I'm looking forward to seeing it now, I'm counting on your words ;)
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:46 PM

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yay, me too, knowing gg subs will be tomorrow ^ ^
 
Jul 29, 2009 2:52 PM

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Your lucky Robby. DEEN censored the end of the episode for you to. :P
 
Jul 29, 2009 3:33 PM

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Zedrane said:
Your lucky Robby. DEEN censored the end of the episode for you to. :P
=_= what's that supposed to mean. I like blood and gore.
 
Jul 29, 2009 3:42 PM

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For those that want to know about the characters

http://www.krycek.net/umineko/

Translated profiles off the official anime site. Doesn't contain any real spoilers. Just basic info that was skimped by DEEN.


hey, thanks, that cleared some things up! i found one thing strange though. why did Kinzo allow servants to wear one winged crests and at the same time poor Natsuhi cant? thats so not fair, and she tries so hard... T_T
 
Jul 29, 2009 4:08 PM

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Neilikki said:
For those that want to know about the characters

http://www.krycek.net/umineko/

Translated profiles off the official anime site. Doesn't contain any real spoilers. Just basic info that was skimped by DEEN.


hey, thanks, that cleared some things up! i found one thing strange though. why did Kinzo allow servants to wear one winged crests and at the same time poor Natsuhi cant? thats so not fair, and she tries so hard... T_T


Genji, Shannon and Kanon were personally hired by Kinzo. Natsuhi only came into the family because Krauss married her. Normally only those with Ushiromiya blood can wear the One Winged Eagle but Kinzo made an exception for those servants.
 
Jul 29, 2009 4:43 PM

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only came into the family because Krauss married her


lol, only? and Natsuhi was personally married by his eldest son doesnt that mean anything? Didnt Kinzo himself told her that she truly has one winged bird carved inside her heart? That means he ackowledged her as a member of the family, doesnt it? so if servants can why she doesnt?
If i was her i would be pissed off that even Shannon and Kanon has higer rank in the family, lol, especially Kanon who thinks he is a furniture
Modified by Neilikki, Jul 29, 2009 4:49 PM
 
Jul 29, 2009 5:02 PM

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Neilikki said:
only came into the family because Krauss married her


lol, only? and Natsuhi was personally married by his eldest son doesnt that mean anything? Didnt Kinzo himself told her that she truly has one winged bird carved inside her heart? That means he ackowledged her as a member of the family, doesnt it? so if servants can why she doesnt?
If i was her i would be pissed off that even Shannon and Kanon has higer rank in the family, lol, especially Kanon who thinks he is a furniture

Let me clear some things that DEEN forgot to mention.
First of all, in the Ushiromiya family the males have priority over the females. That is the reason that Eva had such strong feelings of hatred towards Krauss and bullied his wife Natsuhi.
Kinzo does not trust his kids since, from his point of view, all they are after is money. That is why he trusts his personal servants much more.
That was also mentioned in Episode 1 of the VN.

 
Jul 29, 2009 5:19 PM

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Neilikki said:
only came into the family because Krauss married her


lol, only? and Natsuhi was personally married by his eldest son doesnt that mean anything? Didnt Kinzo himself told her that she truly has one winged bird carved inside her heart? That means he ackowledged her as a member of the family, doesnt it? so if servants can why she doesnt?
If i was her i would be pissed off that even Shannon and Kanon has higer rank in the family, lol, especially Kanon who thinks he is a furniture


Ranking of the family (servants excluded)

1. Kinzo
2. Krauss
3. Eva
4. Rudolf
5. Rosa
6. Jessica
7. George
8. Battler
9. Maria
10. Natsuhi
11. Hideyoshi
12. Kyrie

Ranking of the servants

1. Genji
2. Shannon
3. Kanon
4. Gohda
5. Kumasawa

Isn't a servant nor a member of the family, just a personal doctor and a close friend of Kinzo's.

Nanjo
Modified by LunarEmerald, Jul 29, 2009 5:23 PM
 
Jul 29, 2009 5:34 PM

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yeah...but its only wierder then. whatever, must be just this old mans whims...
 
Jul 29, 2009 6:03 PM

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Tsunami said:

Let me clear some things that DEEN forgot to mention.
First of all, in the Ushiromiya family the males have priority over the females. That is the reason that Eva had such strong feelings of hatred towards Krauss and bullied his wife Natsuhi.
Kinzo does not trust his kids since, from his point of view, all they are after is money. That is why he trusts his personal servants much more.
That was also mentioned in Episode 1 of the VN.


In the case of the first thing you mention, Eva had said something under her breath about hating Krauss, and her treatment of Natsuhi and all of the discussion pretty much cemented that fact. Though I didn't know that men held rank over women, I would have assumed that Krauss as the oldest would hold rank over Eva, since it doesn't seem like either of the other brothers had any power over her.

It was very clear Hideyoshi doesn't trust his children, and that they were after his money. It's one of the few things that were shown clear as day.

So it still doesn't really explain why Natsuhi, who he has acknowledged, doesn't get recognized as a member of the family the way that Kanon and Shanon have. I'm not going to compare Genji, because it seems he's been with Kinzo the longest out of everyone.
 
Jul 29, 2009 6:11 PM

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noteDhero said:


In the case of the first thing you mention, Eva had said something under her breath about hating Krauss, and her treatment of Natsuhi and all of the discussion pretty much cemented that fact. Though I didn't know that men held rank over women, I would have assumed that Krauss as the oldest would hold rank over Eva, since it doesn't seem like either of the other brothers had any power over her.

It was very clear Hideyoshi doesn't trust his children, and that they were after his money. It's one of the few things that were shown clear as day.

So it still doesn't really explain why Natsuhi, who he has acknowledged, doesn't get recognized as a member of the family the way that Kanon and Shanon have. I'm not going to compare Genji, because it seems he's been with Kinzo the longest out of everyone.


There is another reason they get to wear it, honestly. It's just kinda a spoiler....
 
Jul 29, 2009 6:16 PM

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DEEN isn't dumb enough to exclude all this information. It should be mostly revealed in time. Instead of dumping a ton of info at the beginning, it'll be spread across later arcs.

It's best to think of the first arc as the prologue. In the prologue you don't really get to know the characters that well. It's just a set up for the real story.
 
Jul 29, 2009 6:19 PM

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First of all, in the Ushiromiya family the males have priority over the females. That is the reason that Eva had such strong feelings of hatred towards Krauss and bullied his wife Natsuhi.



strange, for me it looks like they are ranked by age not sex -----_--- Krauss is the oldest so he is supposed to be succesor, then is Eva and she is second, and then is her younger brother and then Rosa. Fifth is Jessica as she is the eldest granchild, neither George nor Battler even though they are males. if they are ranked like that your statement is not possible, maybe it was mistranslated?

That is the reason that Eva had such strong feelings of hatred towards Krauss and bullied his wife Natsuhi.


in the link that Marth-kun provided is written that she hates him cause he bullied her when she was a child ;O
 
Jul 29, 2009 6:28 PM

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Zedrane said:

There is another reason they get to wear it, honestly. It's just kinda a spoiler....


They sacrificed their personal lives and family to the Golden Witch Beatrice!!!

MarthX said:
DEEN isn't dumb enough to exclude all this information. It should be mostly revealed in time. Instead of dumping a ton of info at the beginning, it'll be spread across later arcs.

It's best to think of the first arc as the prologue. In the prologue you don't really get to know the characters that well. It's just a set up for the real story.


The problem I have with calling it a prologue is that in the literary definition of a prologue, it just doesn't fit. Prologues set the stage by giving background information, setting the scenery and introducing the viewer to major characters and not really delving into the main conflict of the story. In episode one we're thrown right into the fray of the conflict after very brief and surface introductions of all the characters. But I suppose it can be rectified if we turn back the clock, though it really will have rendered these episodes useless except for maybe Eva and Natsuhi.
 
Jul 29, 2009 11:08 PM

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I'm loving the psycho loli!!!

I knew those 3 were dead when they left the room and they died in a horrible way. This is getting just as good as Higurashi.
 
Jul 30, 2009 3:40 AM

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Neilikki said:
First of all, in the Ushiromiya family the males have priority over the females. That is the reason that Eva had such strong feelings of hatred towards Krauss and bullied his wife Natsuhi.



strange, for me it looks like they are ranked by age not sex -----_--- Krauss is the oldest so he is supposed to be succesor, then is Eva and she is second, and then is her younger brother and then Rosa. Fifth is Jessica as she is the eldest granchild, neither George nor Battler even though they are males. if they are ranked like that your statement is not possible, maybe it was mistranslated?


From what I understood from the lunch scene in the VN, females are not ranked lower than males so the order of the 4 siblings is the order they were born in, oldest to youngest. Eva should have lost her place as 3rd most important member when she married because she would have been entered in another family's register, but she persuaded Kinzo to accept her husband in the Ushiromiya family and therefore kept her rank. Rosa's situation is still unexplained but I can assume she did not marry.

Jessica is not the eldest (she's 18 and George is 23), she is the daughter of the eldest - she would be the heir after Krauss becomes the head, therefore her rank. However it's said somewhere that technically whoever marries Jessica would become the Ushiromiya head, so females have a somehow weaker position than males. Not surprising considering this is set in Japan's 80s.
 
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