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Jul 1, 10:10 PM
#51
SimplyBrazen said: Because it has been overused as an argument for debate for the past 3 goddamn years. Using the same rhetorical bullshit to criticize a show for gets real annoying real fast. Fans have to deal with that hate constantly, so why are you surprised everyone has lost all patience? if the debates have been on for 3 years over the same argument, then it's just proving that the character is suck? |
Jul 1, 10:58 PM
#52
MapleSyrupIce said: SimplyBrazen said: Because it has been overused as an argument for debate for the past 3 goddamn years. Using the same rhetorical bullshit to criticize a show for gets real annoying real fast. Fans have to deal with that hate constantly, so why are you surprised everyone has lost all patience? if the debates have been on for 3 years over the same argument, then it's just proving that the character is suck? Tf kind of prepubescent logic is that... |
Jul 1, 11:34 PM
#53
I have seen both sides and both are wrong. Some are hating on Rudy & Roxy for taking "advantage" of the situation and did it fun while skipping out the whole depression thing and how Roxy saved Rudy. And also some people are lashing out at Norn just for being logical. She has every right to question them without knowing full context. But she get hates because she didn't go along. Also people defend their fav characters because the are "favs" how simple I don't think anyone blindly supports Roxy & Rudy. But at sometime these fans also hating one people like Norn just for being just a little resistance. This annoys me |
WaterMageJul 1, 11:59 PM
Jul 1, 11:42 PM
#54
hear me out........ because they are their favourite characters. Humans are emotional beings obv they don't care about logic. |
Jul 2, 12:49 AM
#55
Reply to SkyhighCFC
@pielopelotta I agree with this. Most of the dialogue about MT from genuine haters is exhausting and petulant more often than not. That's not what this post is about though
@SkyhighCFC Well, in a way it is. You asked "why people defend everything their favorite characters do?" and my therory is that as a fanbase gets jaded like the MT fanbase, more and more will start to lash out at any criticism. I also do not think a lot of MT fans actualy defend their favorite characters through everything, or at least I haven't seen a lot of it. But having flawed characters is one of the main strong points for the show after all. |
Jul 2, 1:12 AM
#56
Reply to DigitalKracken
people who do that make it pretty difficult to discuss this show's characters without it just devolving into arguments
Though it devolving into an argument really isn't a problem, if you want to engage with this media and openly discuss it, you should be open for argumentation, this obviously does not excuse narrow-mindedness and insults but the mere fact that arguments arise is not what I see as the problem here. I do think that people are allowed to defend these types of behaviour, just as much as I am allowed to find it appalling at times, the fact that there are different views here really isn't the problem. I do find it a bit shocking, how many people are willing to ignore a lot of what is happening in this show or fail to see what is wrong with it, I would really hope this to be a narrative people observe in a critical manner, but that doesn't make me hate the idea of having a discussion on these topics. What I find makes this a bit tricky is more so, if you start to make yourself believe that the actions in this show are somewhat justified, you have to alter the way you approach this kind of stuff out right, and it is hard to convey problems to people that actively don't want to see them. |
Hello, please don't take anything I say as an insult, it is not meant as an attack against you as a person. If I directly disagree with you, that does not mean I think you are wrong, I am just more correct. |
Jul 2, 4:29 AM
#57
MapleSyrupIce said: SimplyBrazen said: Because it has been overused as an argument for debate for the past 3 goddamn years. Using the same rhetorical bullshit to criticize a show for gets real annoying real fast. Fans have to deal with that hate constantly, so why are you surprised everyone has lost all patience? if the debates have been on for 3 years over the same argument, then it's just proving that the character is suck? Repeating the same bullshit argument time and time again won't suddenly make it true or valid. |
Jul 2, 6:58 AM
#58
Reply to Lucianael
Though it devolving into an argument really isn't a problem, if you want to engage with this media and openly discuss it, you should be open for argumentation, this obviously does not excuse narrow-mindedness and insults but the mere fact that arguments arise is not what I see as the problem here. I do think that people are allowed to defend these types of behaviour, just as much as I am allowed to find it appalling at times, the fact that there are different views here really isn't the problem. I do find it a bit shocking, how many people are willing to ignore a lot of what is happening in this show or fail to see what is wrong with it, I would really hope this to be a narrative people observe in a critical manner, but that doesn't make me hate the idea of having a discussion on these topics. What I find makes this a bit tricky is more so, if you start to make yourself believe that the actions in this show are somewhat justified, you have to alter the way you approach this kind of stuff out right, and it is hard to convey problems to people that actively don't want to see them.
@Lucianael I love the way you put this...this is pretty spot on. |
Jul 2, 7:05 AM
#59
I've already gotten used to the fact that no matter what Rudeus or any other character does, hardcore fans will still defend everything. The funny thing is that when you write something about it, they write "it's an anime, the MC has many flaws" but when you discuss these flaws, suddenly Rudeus becomes innocent. Rudeus molests girls? nah they deserved it hahahha. Taking off Eris' panties? nah, he's just a kid, he doesn't know what he's doing. Cheating on your wife? ''he was depressed and sad, it's not his fault, and besides, there is polygamy there.''"If you don't like it, don't watch it" XD it doesn't matter that the main character and Roxy themselves repeatedly admit that what they did was fucked up, but people don't care. what Rudeus did is morally wrong because he slept with another woman without Sylphie's knowledge or permission and only caused her stress. The fact that Sylphie is passive and characterless and will take every blow without crying or getting angry is only lucky for eRudeus. She has so little faith in her husband that she knew that sooner or later she would be cheated on. What does that really say about their relationship? I have the impression that only Norn thinks normally there. Because ok, there is polygamy, but there are also such things as moral principles. She said everything Sylphie should have shouted to Rudeus and Roxy in their faces. Because you can agree to a second wife, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a huge lack of respect towards Sylphie. |
Jul 2, 8:04 AM
#60
Reply to Jollyne7
I've already gotten used to the fact that no matter what Rudeus or any other character does, hardcore fans will still defend everything. The funny thing is that when you write something about it, they write "it's an anime, the MC has many flaws" but when you discuss these flaws, suddenly Rudeus becomes innocent. Rudeus molests girls? nah they deserved it hahahha. Taking off Eris' panties? nah, he's just a kid, he doesn't know what he's doing.
Cheating on your wife? ''he was depressed and sad, it's not his fault, and besides, there is polygamy there.''"If you don't like it, don't watch it" XD it doesn't matter that the main character and Roxy themselves repeatedly admit that what they did was fucked up, but people don't care. what Rudeus did is morally wrong because he slept with another woman without Sylphie's knowledge or permission and only caused her stress. The fact that Sylphie is passive and characterless and will take every blow without crying or getting angry is only lucky for eRudeus. She has so little faith in her husband that she knew that sooner or later she would be cheated on. What does that really say about their relationship?
I have the impression that only Norn thinks normally there. Because ok, there is polygamy, but there are also such things as moral principles. She said everything Sylphie should have shouted to Rudeus and Roxy in their faces. Because you can agree to a second wife, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a huge lack of respect towards Sylphie.
Cheating on your wife? ''he was depressed and sad, it's not his fault, and besides, there is polygamy there.''"If you don't like it, don't watch it" XD it doesn't matter that the main character and Roxy themselves repeatedly admit that what they did was fucked up, but people don't care. what Rudeus did is morally wrong because he slept with another woman without Sylphie's knowledge or permission and only caused her stress. The fact that Sylphie is passive and characterless and will take every blow without crying or getting angry is only lucky for eRudeus. She has so little faith in her husband that she knew that sooner or later she would be cheated on. What does that really say about their relationship?
I have the impression that only Norn thinks normally there. Because ok, there is polygamy, but there are also such things as moral principles. She said everything Sylphie should have shouted to Rudeus and Roxy in their faces. Because you can agree to a second wife, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a huge lack of respect towards Sylphie.
@Jollyne7 Well said and I agree with you pretty much wholeheartedly. People just hate critical discussions when it comes to their faves for some reason and feel personally attacked. People will say Norn was completely wrong because it wasn't her place to impose her values on their relationship, but while it is true that it isn't her place to do so, and the fact that she's a bit of a hypocrite because her dad (who is her hero) did the same and she had no problem with it, that doesn't mean what she said was all wrong. There was definitely truth to what she said. It's this kind of nuance that is constantly lost on a lot of people. Norn is a flawed character too. |
Jul 2, 8:22 AM
#61
Reply to Zarutaku
@SkyhighCFC It doesn't really matter what the characters themselves think, that's just the decision of the author after all. People will defend the actions if they themselves think the reasons did justify them.
@Zarutaku But that would ignore our ability to critique the authors choices. Of course, these decisions were made by the author, and that is exactly what we are critiquing here. This would be like saying "well, you can't critique Ted Cruz for being a racist piece of shit, that's just his opinion". While we can not critique people for their opinion alone, we can very much critique what they share with us, and the fact that we know about the author's opinions already shows that they voice them. People are allowed to defend these actions, but to defend them under the assumption that the author's choice is final and can not be question would remove all responsibility a creator has in the context of the work they create. Let's say you have a narrative like Mushoku Tensei, where sexism is integral to the story being told, this gives us a reason for why it is so acceptable in this world to have a harem, but that does not necessarily give a reason for the world to function this way. Internal consistency is not all reason that needs to apply. A world that is consistently racist might follow the rules of causality and present a logical narrative, but if you do not say anything with a world like that, or present it as a setting in which the people live happily, in which minorities are glad to be oppressed, then you are not just presenting an internally consistent work, you are being racist. Criticism is not limited to the bounds of the world a story takes place in, it is only limited by how we perceive our world to function and how we use that knowledge to approach fiction. This is the fundamental issue I see a lot of people ignoring, to them, it only matters if whatever happens makes sense within the world, if what they read and see is logical for the people within this fictional setting, they don't even consider what these things imply. |
Hello, please don't take anything I say as an insult, it is not meant as an attack against you as a person. If I directly disagree with you, that does not mean I think you are wrong, I am just more correct. |
Jul 2, 9:45 AM
#62
Reply to Lucianael
@Zarutaku But that would ignore our ability to critique the authors choices. Of course, these decisions were made by the author, and that is exactly what we are critiquing here. This would be like saying "well, you can't critique Ted Cruz for being a racist piece of shit, that's just his opinion". While we can not critique people for their opinion alone, we can very much critique what they share with us, and the fact that we know about the author's opinions already shows that they voice them. People are allowed to defend these actions, but to defend them under the assumption that the author's choice is final and can not be question would remove all responsibility a creator has in the context of the work they create. Let's say you have a narrative like Mushoku Tensei, where sexism is integral to the story being told, this gives us a reason for why it is so acceptable in this world to have a harem, but that does not necessarily give a reason for the world to function this way. Internal consistency is not all reason that needs to apply. A world that is consistently racist might follow the rules of causality and present a logical narrative, but if you do not say anything with a world like that, or present it as a setting in which the people live happily, in which minorities are glad to be oppressed, then you are not just presenting an internally consistent work, you are being racist. Criticism is not limited to the bounds of the world a story takes place in, it is only limited by how we perceive our world to function and how we use that knowledge to approach fiction. This is the fundamental issue I see a lot of people ignoring, to them, it only matters if whatever happens makes sense within the world, if what they read and see is logical for the people within this fictional setting, they don't even consider what these things imply.
Lucianael said: But that would ignore our ability to critique the authors choices. Of course, these decisions were made by the author, and that is exactly what we are critiquing here. It seems you are talking about something different, this topic isn't about criticizing the author's decisions, but determining why some people defend the certain actions of certain characters, which is outside of the author's control. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jul 2, 10:16 AM
#63
I've been saying this since forever and I'll say it again, characters with bad morality doesn't mean the writing is bad or the anime itself is bad. It is just a part of the story. Flawed personality =/= flawed character. Reality is that those who defend the anime (again not the character. Most people doesn't do that) are not giving out excuses. Rather haters are the ones who's giving excuses with their nonexistent reasons. It should have been common sense but almost every hater seems to be retarded. |
Jul 2, 11:01 AM
#64
Reply to mshfqtny
I've been saying this since forever and I'll say it again, characters with bad morality doesn't mean the writing is bad or the anime itself is bad. It is just a part of the story. Flawed personality =/= flawed character.
Reality is that those who defend the anime (again not the character. Most people doesn't do that) are not giving out excuses. Rather haters are the ones who's giving excuses with their nonexistent reasons.
It should have been common sense but almost every hater seems to be retarded.
Reality is that those who defend the anime (again not the character. Most people doesn't do that) are not giving out excuses. Rather haters are the ones who's giving excuses with their nonexistent reasons.
It should have been common sense but almost every hater seems to be retarded.
@mshfqtny A lot of fans DO defend the characters actions when they fuck up and try to justify them though. There's a difference between explaining why a character did something and why it might be a little understandable and straight up defending the action. I'm talking about people who do the latter, and unfortunately it is pretty common from my experience. |
Jul 2, 1:16 PM
#65
Reply to Zarutaku
Lucianael said:
But that would ignore our ability to critique the authors choices. Of course, these decisions were made by the author, and that is exactly what we are critiquing here.
But that would ignore our ability to critique the authors choices. Of course, these decisions were made by the author, and that is exactly what we are critiquing here.
It seems you are talking about something different, this topic isn't about criticizing the author's decisions, but determining why some people defend the certain actions of certain characters, which is outside of the author's control.
@Zarutaku But is it though? From what I have seen this far, the main argument for the actions that characters commit, would be to point at their history and place in the world, in other words to use the story the author built up as justification for the character's action. This makes sense purely on the basis of causality, but that is really not what people critique the show and Light Novel for, it is about what the stories imply through this world. If people ignore these things and only start arguing against an argument that was never made, if they only question this work in its own internal logic, then they very much are missing the point. Of course, this ignorance is something we need to critique these indivual people for, but the thing they are ignoring is something we need to critique the work itself for. So yeah, you are right, but also, it is both, ignoring either group would be wrong, but the simple truth of the matter is, people talk about a work of art a whole lot more than they talk about how other people talk about that work of art. In other words, you are going to hear a lot more criticism direct at the author, than you will at the reader. |
Hello, please don't take anything I say as an insult, it is not meant as an attack against you as a person. If I directly disagree with you, that does not mean I think you are wrong, I am just more correct. |
Jul 2, 2:02 PM
#66
Reply to Lucianael
@Zarutaku But is it though? From what I have seen this far, the main argument for the actions that characters commit, would be to point at their history and place in the world, in other words to use the story the author built up as justification for the character's action. This makes sense purely on the basis of causality, but that is really not what people critique the show and Light Novel for, it is about what the stories imply through this world. If people ignore these things and only start arguing against an argument that was never made, if they only question this work in its own internal logic, then they very much are missing the point. Of course, this ignorance is something we need to critique these indivual people for, but the thing they are ignoring is something we need to critique the work itself for. So yeah, you are right, but also, it is both, ignoring either group would be wrong, but the simple truth of the matter is, people talk about a work of art a whole lot more than they talk about how other people talk about that work of art. In other words, you are going to hear a lot more criticism direct at the author, than you will at the reader.
Lucianael said: But is it though? From what I have seen this far, the main argument for the actions that characters commit, would be to point at their history and place in the world, in other words to use the story the author built up as justification for the character's action. Yes, the author has no control over and isn't responsible for how and why individual fans "use the story" to justify and defend certain actions of the characters, which is the question of this topic and I explained why I think they do it. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jul 2, 6:40 PM
#67
That's honestly pretty funny. In the last few episodes, the characters themselves (especially Rudy & Roxy) have admitted to being assholes. Rudy for cheating and Roxy taking advantage of him. I wonder what people are defending here XD. SkyhighCFC said: That is probably the reason why. The fans are basically conditioned by now to think everyone trying to critique is automatically a hater, because that's how it's been for the longest time.haters of the series who have issues separating fiction from reality or separating their own personal morals with the morals and values of the characters in the show |
Jul 2, 10:09 PM
#68
Let me make this simple for you to understand. Attack on Titan is literally about characters committing genocide, still, there are people out there saying it is one of the greatest anime ever written. In a moral sense, you should say AOT is a terrible show because it promotes war crimes and makes you listen to the perspective of a psychopathic somewhat messiah character trying to conduct a cleansing of the world. But even then, people like it because of the storytelling. It's the same as Death Note, people like it because of how the anime is adapted and the storytelling, not because it's about relatability. Trying to use flawed characters as a criticism of bad anime would make you look like a hypocrite because plenty of anime have morally ambiguous characters and it's been like this ever since then. I am not here to try and defend the character's actions, because it is logically disgusting, no matter how much you try to twist it. But even then, do those actions really define what the show is? |
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Jul 2, 10:15 PM
#69
Reply to ZeroMajor12
Let me make this simple for you to understand.
Attack on Titan is literally about characters committing genocide, still, there are people out there saying it is one of the greatest anime ever written. In a moral sense, you should say AOT is a terrible show because it promotes war crimes and makes you listen to the perspective of a psychopathic somewhat messiah character trying to conduct a cleansing of the world. But even then, people like it because of the storytelling. It's the same as Death Note, people like it because of how the anime is adapted and the storytelling, not because it's about relatability. Trying to use flawed characters as a criticism of bad anime would make you look like a hypocrite because plenty of anime have morally ambiguous characters and it's been like this ever since then. I am not here to try and defend the character's actions, because it is logically disgusting, no matter how much you try to twist it. But even then, do those actions really define what the show is?
Attack on Titan is literally about characters committing genocide, still, there are people out there saying it is one of the greatest anime ever written. In a moral sense, you should say AOT is a terrible show because it promotes war crimes and makes you listen to the perspective of a psychopathic somewhat messiah character trying to conduct a cleansing of the world. But even then, people like it because of the storytelling. It's the same as Death Note, people like it because of how the anime is adapted and the storytelling, not because it's about relatability. Trying to use flawed characters as a criticism of bad anime would make you look like a hypocrite because plenty of anime have morally ambiguous characters and it's been like this ever since then. I am not here to try and defend the character's actions, because it is logically disgusting, no matter how much you try to twist it. But even then, do those actions really define what the show is?
@ZeroMajor12 Oh, how delightfully naive your perspective is! Equating complex storytelling with mere moral ambiguity shows your depth of understanding is as profound as a thimble. Reducing Attack on Titan to "characters committing genocide" is laughably simplistic. The series explores themes of survival, freedom, and the cyclical nature of violence—concepts clearly beyond your feeble grasp. It's like trying to teach calculus to a parrot. Your comparison of Attack on Titan to Death Note is equally absurd. These shows delve into human nature’s darkest corners, not just surface-level plots. Your inability to see this is almost endearing, like a squirrel trying to solve a Rubik's cube. Claiming that using flawed characters as criticism is hypocrisy is peak stupidity. Depth and execution are what matter. Morally ambiguous characters don't make a story great—the underlying messages and craftsmanship do, something your walnut-sized brain can't comprehend. It’s like watching a toddler trying to conduct a symphony. Keep spouting your half-baked drivel while the rest of us enjoy true narrative artistry. Your opinions are as useful as a solar-powered flashlight at night, and your presence in serious discussions is a reminder of why mediocrity persists. You're floundering in the dark, blissfully unaware of the brilliance around you. |
𝓦𝓱𝔂 𝓼𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓵𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓶𝓮𝓭𝓲𝓸𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝔂 𝔀𝓱𝓮𝓷 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓬𝓪𝓷 𝓼𝓽𝓻𝓲𝓿𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓲𝓪𝓷𝓬𝓮? 𝓐𝓼 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓲𝓮𝓻 𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓶𝓮 𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝓲𝓬 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓫𝓮𝓱𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓔𝓽𝓮𝓻𝓷𝓪𝓵 𝓠𝓾𝓮𝓼𝓽, 𝓘 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓾𝓷𝓶𝓪𝓽𝓬𝓱𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓬𝓲𝓼𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓲𝓷𝓼𝓲𝓰𝓱𝓽 𝓽𝓸 𝓮𝓿𝓮𝓻𝔂 𝓻𝓮𝓿𝓲𝓮𝔀. 𝓔𝓵𝓮𝓿𝓪𝓽𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾𝓻 𝓽𝓪𝓼𝓽𝓮 𝓸𝓻 𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓪𝓲𝓷 𝓵𝓸𝓼𝓽 𝓲𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓷𝓸𝓲𝓼𝓮.🧐✨ |
Jul 2, 11:02 PM
#70
Reply to mshfqtny
I've been saying this since forever and I'll say it again, characters with bad morality doesn't mean the writing is bad or the anime itself is bad. It is just a part of the story. Flawed personality =/= flawed character.
Reality is that those who defend the anime (again not the character. Most people doesn't do that) are not giving out excuses. Rather haters are the ones who's giving excuses with their nonexistent reasons.
It should have been common sense but almost every hater seems to be retarded.
Reality is that those who defend the anime (again not the character. Most people doesn't do that) are not giving out excuses. Rather haters are the ones who's giving excuses with their nonexistent reasons.
It should have been common sense but almost every hater seems to be retarded.
@mshfqtny You know I just have to point out, because I'm "retarded" I think all of you are insane lunatics. So here's the deal, yes Rudeus and Roxy say that they are bad people yada yada yada, but the main point is that Rudy is absolutely always rewarded for EVERY bad decision he does. There's no punishment, there's no consequences for anything he does. In the whole show the only time Rudeus "paid" for his actions was with the Archer girl, end even then she was mad because he WOULDN'T FUCK HER!!?? The only reason why he goes to the magic academy was to cure his impotence, because Eris let's be honest just used him. And even she gets to be forgiven and becomes his third wife! How can you people justify this as good writing?! It's literally writers fetishistic desires because everyone agrees with it and nobody ever suffer the consequences in the end. Also there was a post in here about Jaime Lannister, that was just most idiotic and insane thing I read today. The reason why people love him is because he suffered the consequences of his shitty actions and his cockiness, he actually becomes more sympathetic and nuanced because he comes to question his actions and morals in the end (and I'm talking about book Jaime not that travesty from HBO). And Rudeus never get's this treatment, he gets almost everything handed to him on a silver plate. The amount of times he got punished for HIS shitty actions is almost nonexistent and THAT is why people call you out and shit on your beloved "masterpiece" that is in simple words just a horny power fantasy and not a nuanced and intelligent show that you all claim it is. Also there's nothing wrong with loving this show, I actually like it, it's entertaining and I have fun watching it, but at the same time I know that it's just trash without some bigger value that people are delusional about. It's fine loving something as long as you can see and understand why so many people are calling it bad and why some of their arguments are actually rock solid. But sadly that's not how people work and as soon as you attack something they love no matter how reasonable and factual the reasons are they see themselves as attacked because how can THEY be wrong for loving something!? No, that other person who is "attacking" them is wrong becaue if he isn't that means they are less inteligent than the "attacker". |
Jul 2, 11:06 PM
#71
Reply to BimJomp
@ZeroMajor12 Oh, how delightfully naive your perspective is! Equating complex storytelling with mere moral ambiguity shows your depth of understanding is as profound as a thimble.
Reducing Attack on Titan to "characters committing genocide" is laughably simplistic. The series explores themes of survival, freedom, and the cyclical nature of violence—concepts clearly beyond your feeble grasp. It's like trying to teach calculus to a parrot.
Your comparison of Attack on Titan to Death Note is equally absurd. These shows delve into human nature’s darkest corners, not just surface-level plots. Your inability to see this is almost endearing, like a squirrel trying to solve a Rubik's cube.
Claiming that using flawed characters as criticism is hypocrisy is peak stupidity. Depth and execution are what matter. Morally ambiguous characters don't make a story great—the underlying messages and craftsmanship do, something your walnut-sized brain can't comprehend. It’s like watching a toddler trying to conduct a symphony.
Keep spouting your half-baked drivel while the rest of us enjoy true narrative artistry. Your opinions are as useful as a solar-powered flashlight at night, and your presence in serious discussions is a reminder of why mediocrity persists. You're floundering in the dark, blissfully unaware of the brilliance around you.
Reducing Attack on Titan to "characters committing genocide" is laughably simplistic. The series explores themes of survival, freedom, and the cyclical nature of violence—concepts clearly beyond your feeble grasp. It's like trying to teach calculus to a parrot.
Your comparison of Attack on Titan to Death Note is equally absurd. These shows delve into human nature’s darkest corners, not just surface-level plots. Your inability to see this is almost endearing, like a squirrel trying to solve a Rubik's cube.
Claiming that using flawed characters as criticism is hypocrisy is peak stupidity. Depth and execution are what matter. Morally ambiguous characters don't make a story great—the underlying messages and craftsmanship do, something your walnut-sized brain can't comprehend. It’s like watching a toddler trying to conduct a symphony.
Keep spouting your half-baked drivel while the rest of us enjoy true narrative artistry. Your opinions are as useful as a solar-powered flashlight at night, and your presence in serious discussions is a reminder of why mediocrity persists. You're floundering in the dark, blissfully unaware of the brilliance around you.
@BimJomp Your response proves that moral ambiguity does not make an anime bad. This is exactly the response I was waiting for and why it needs to be shown to everyone. Because most of the criticism from Mushoku Tensei derives from the main characters' questionable actions and not from the show itself. Though I find it funny that you're trying to call me stupid when I was just trying to make you give me that response. |
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Jul 2, 11:15 PM
#72
Reply to ZeroMajor12
@BimJomp Your response proves that moral ambiguity does not make an anime bad. This is exactly the response I was waiting for and why it needs to be shown to everyone. Because most of the criticism from Mushoku Tensei derives from the main characters' questionable actions and not from the show itself. Though I find it funny that you're trying to call me stupid when I was just trying to make you give me that response.
@ZeroMajor12 How utterly adorable. You think you've crafted some grand intellectual trap, don't you? It's almost endearing, like watching a hamster believe it's conquering Everest by running in its wheel. Your attempt at playing the puppet master is as transparent as cellophane. Pretending you're Eren Yeager, orchestrating responses with brilliant foresight, is as laughable as a toddler claiming to outsmart Einstein. Pseudointellectuals like you thrive on the illusion of being "one step ahead," but in reality, you're just spinning in circles. Critiquing complex narratives with your shallow grasp is akin to a goldfish trying to comprehend the ocean. Your desperation for validation is painfully evident. You baited me for a response, hoping to feign control, but here's the twist: I saw through your flimsy charade from the start. Responding to your nonsense was like swatting an insignificant fly—momentarily bothersome but ultimately trivial. So, continue basking in your delusions of grandeur. Your "strategy" is as effective as using a sieve to carry water, and your understanding of narrative critique is as profound as a puddle after a drizzle. Keep pretending you're a master tactician, while the rest of us engage in meaningful, nuanced discussions that will forever be beyond your reach. Your presence is a sad testament to the persistence of mediocrity, a reminder that even the dullest tools in the shed can make noise. |
𝓦𝓱𝔂 𝓼𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓵𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓶𝓮𝓭𝓲𝓸𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝔂 𝔀𝓱𝓮𝓷 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓬𝓪𝓷 𝓼𝓽𝓻𝓲𝓿𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓲𝓪𝓷𝓬𝓮? 𝓐𝓼 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓲𝓮𝓻 𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓶𝓮 𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝓲𝓬 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓫𝓮𝓱𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓔𝓽𝓮𝓻𝓷𝓪𝓵 𝓠𝓾𝓮𝓼𝓽, 𝓘 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓾𝓷𝓶𝓪𝓽𝓬𝓱𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓬𝓲𝓼𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓲𝓷𝓼𝓲𝓰𝓱𝓽 𝓽𝓸 𝓮𝓿𝓮𝓻𝔂 𝓻𝓮𝓿𝓲𝓮𝔀. 𝓔𝓵𝓮𝓿𝓪𝓽𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾𝓻 𝓽𝓪𝓼𝓽𝓮 𝓸𝓻 𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓪𝓲𝓷 𝓵𝓸𝓼𝓽 𝓲𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓷𝓸𝓲𝓼𝓮.🧐✨ |
Jul 2, 11:19 PM
#73
Reply to BimJomp
@ZeroMajor12 How utterly adorable. You think you've crafted some grand intellectual trap, don't you? It's almost endearing, like watching a hamster believe it's conquering Everest by running in its wheel.
Your attempt at playing the puppet master is as transparent as cellophane. Pretending you're Eren Yeager, orchestrating responses with brilliant foresight, is as laughable as a toddler claiming to outsmart Einstein. Pseudointellectuals like you thrive on the illusion of being "one step ahead," but in reality, you're just spinning in circles.
Critiquing complex narratives with your shallow grasp is akin to a goldfish trying to comprehend the ocean. Your desperation for validation is painfully evident. You baited me for a response, hoping to feign control, but here's the twist: I saw through your flimsy charade from the start. Responding to your nonsense was like swatting an insignificant fly—momentarily bothersome but ultimately trivial.
So, continue basking in your delusions of grandeur. Your "strategy" is as effective as using a sieve to carry water, and your understanding of narrative critique is as profound as a puddle after a drizzle. Keep pretending you're a master tactician, while the rest of us engage in meaningful, nuanced discussions that will forever be beyond your reach. Your presence is a sad testament to the persistence of mediocrity, a reminder that even the dullest tools in the shed can make noise.
Your attempt at playing the puppet master is as transparent as cellophane. Pretending you're Eren Yeager, orchestrating responses with brilliant foresight, is as laughable as a toddler claiming to outsmart Einstein. Pseudointellectuals like you thrive on the illusion of being "one step ahead," but in reality, you're just spinning in circles.
Critiquing complex narratives with your shallow grasp is akin to a goldfish trying to comprehend the ocean. Your desperation for validation is painfully evident. You baited me for a response, hoping to feign control, but here's the twist: I saw through your flimsy charade from the start. Responding to your nonsense was like swatting an insignificant fly—momentarily bothersome but ultimately trivial.
So, continue basking in your delusions of grandeur. Your "strategy" is as effective as using a sieve to carry water, and your understanding of narrative critique is as profound as a puddle after a drizzle. Keep pretending you're a master tactician, while the rest of us engage in meaningful, nuanced discussions that will forever be beyond your reach. Your presence is a sad testament to the persistence of mediocrity, a reminder that even the dullest tools in the shed can make noise.
@BimJomp Dude, with that level of vocabulary, you should make a book with that. |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Jul 2, 11:24 PM
#74
Reply to ZeroMajor12
@BimJomp Dude, with that level of vocabulary, you should make a book with that.
@ZeroMajor12 You think my vocabulary is impressive enough for a book? How utterly naive. I'm not wasting my time on something as pedestrian as a book. Instead, I'm creating "Eternal Quest," a manga that's already generating buzz among critics. "Eternal Quest" is a narrative masterpiece, a tapestry of storytelling so rich it would likely be wasted on your pedestrian taste. Feel free to try it when it comes out, though it might soar far above your limited intellectual horizon. The layers of "Eternal Quest" are like a symphony, each note perfectly placed to create an epic far beyond the drivel you probably consume. Comparing my work to average manga is like comparing the Sistine Chapel to a child's doodle. So, while you bask in your simplistic dreams of books, I'll be setting the world ablaze with "Eternal Quest." It will stand as a testament to true narrative brilliance, leaving you and your kind in the shadows. Keep dreaming small, my friend, while I redefine the boundaries of storytelling. |
𝓦𝓱𝔂 𝓼𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓵𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓶𝓮𝓭𝓲𝓸𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝔂 𝔀𝓱𝓮𝓷 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓬𝓪𝓷 𝓼𝓽𝓻𝓲𝓿𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓲𝓪𝓷𝓬𝓮? 𝓐𝓼 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓲𝓮𝓻 𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓶𝓮 𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝓲𝓬 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓫𝓮𝓱𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓔𝓽𝓮𝓻𝓷𝓪𝓵 𝓠𝓾𝓮𝓼𝓽, 𝓘 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓾𝓷𝓶𝓪𝓽𝓬𝓱𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓬𝓲𝓼𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓲𝓷𝓼𝓲𝓰𝓱𝓽 𝓽𝓸 𝓮𝓿𝓮𝓻𝔂 𝓻𝓮𝓿𝓲𝓮𝔀. 𝓔𝓵𝓮𝓿𝓪𝓽𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾𝓻 𝓽𝓪𝓼𝓽𝓮 𝓸𝓻 𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓪𝓲𝓷 𝓵𝓸𝓼𝓽 𝓲𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓷𝓸𝓲𝓼𝓮.🧐✨ |
Jul 2, 11:25 PM
#75
Reply to BimJomp
@ZeroMajor12 You think my vocabulary is impressive enough for a book? How utterly naive. I'm not wasting my time on something as pedestrian as a book. Instead, I'm creating "Eternal Quest," a manga that's already generating buzz among critics.
"Eternal Quest" is a narrative masterpiece, a tapestry of storytelling so rich it would likely be wasted on your pedestrian taste. Feel free to try it when it comes out, though it might soar far above your limited intellectual horizon.
The layers of "Eternal Quest" are like a symphony, each note perfectly placed to create an epic far beyond the drivel you probably consume. Comparing my work to average manga is like comparing the Sistine Chapel to a child's doodle.
So, while you bask in your simplistic dreams of books, I'll be setting the world ablaze with "Eternal Quest." It will stand as a testament to true narrative brilliance, leaving you and your kind in the shadows. Keep dreaming small, my friend, while I redefine the boundaries of storytelling.
"Eternal Quest" is a narrative masterpiece, a tapestry of storytelling so rich it would likely be wasted on your pedestrian taste. Feel free to try it when it comes out, though it might soar far above your limited intellectual horizon.
The layers of "Eternal Quest" are like a symphony, each note perfectly placed to create an epic far beyond the drivel you probably consume. Comparing my work to average manga is like comparing the Sistine Chapel to a child's doodle.
So, while you bask in your simplistic dreams of books, I'll be setting the world ablaze with "Eternal Quest." It will stand as a testament to true narrative brilliance, leaving you and your kind in the shadows. Keep dreaming small, my friend, while I redefine the boundaries of storytelling.
@BimJomp Dude, you're too funny, I can't stop laughing XD |
Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Jul 2, 11:31 PM
#76
Reply to ZeroMajor12
@BimJomp Dude, you're too funny, I can't stop laughing XD
@ZeroMajor12 Your feeble attempts at humor are as pathetic as they are predictable. It's almost endearing that you find my superiority so entertaining—like a court jester laughing at a king's decree. While you wallow in your pitiful laughter, let me enlighten you about "Eternal Quest." This masterpiece will shake the very foundations of the manga world, setting a new standard that your pedestrian tastes will never reach. "Eternal Quest" isn't just a story; it's a revolution in narrative artistry, a symphony of complexity that will leave the masses in awe. Critics are already buzzing, recognizing its brilliance—something your simple mind could never comprehend. The protagonist, John Smith, is a character so richly developed that he makes the cardboard cutouts you’re used to look like doodles in a coloring book. The depth and intricacy of "Eternal Quest" are like a finely woven tapestry, each thread a testament to true genius. It's not just a manga; it's a monumental work that will redefine the genre. So, keep laughing, like a hyena oblivious to the lion's majesty. While you amuse yourself with your shallow jests, "Eternal Quest" will ascend, leaving you and your kind to grovel in the dust of mediocrity. Enjoy your moment of mirth, for it will be fleeting, much like your relevance in any serious discussion about true art. |
𝓦𝓱𝔂 𝓼𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓵𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓶𝓮𝓭𝓲𝓸𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝔂 𝔀𝓱𝓮𝓷 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓬𝓪𝓷 𝓼𝓽𝓻𝓲𝓿𝓮 𝓯𝓸𝓻 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓲𝓪𝓷𝓬𝓮? 𝓐𝓼 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓲𝓮𝓻 𝓪𝓷𝓲𝓶𝓮 𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓽𝓲𝓬 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓫𝓮𝓱𝓲𝓷𝓭 𝓔𝓽𝓮𝓻𝓷𝓪𝓵 𝓠𝓾𝓮𝓼𝓽, 𝓘 𝓫𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓾𝓷𝓶𝓪𝓽𝓬𝓱𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓻𝓮𝓬𝓲𝓼𝓲𝓸𝓷 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓲𝓷𝓼𝓲𝓰𝓱𝓽 𝓽𝓸 𝓮𝓿𝓮𝓻𝔂 𝓻𝓮𝓿𝓲𝓮𝔀. 𝓔𝓵𝓮𝓿𝓪𝓽𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾𝓻 𝓽𝓪𝓼𝓽𝓮 𝓸𝓻 𝓻𝓮𝓶𝓪𝓲𝓷 𝓵𝓸𝓼𝓽 𝓲𝓷 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓷𝓸𝓲𝓼𝓮.🧐✨ |
Jul 2, 11:43 PM
#77
Reply to Zarutaku
Lucianael said:
But is it though? From what I have seen this far, the main argument for the actions that characters commit, would be to point at their history and place in the world, in other words to use the story the author built up as justification for the character's action.
But is it though? From what I have seen this far, the main argument for the actions that characters commit, would be to point at their history and place in the world, in other words to use the story the author built up as justification for the character's action.
Yes, the author has no control over and isn't responsible for how and why individual fans "use the story" to justify and defend certain actions of the characters, which is the question of this topic and I explained why I think they do it.
@Zarutaku To quote you here: "Characters do wrong things for a reason, and these reasons are what you described as "every excuse under the sun" in your post. This is a discussion, so naturally people will point out the reasons of the character's actions and if they think they were justified, then they will defend them." Of course, people will only defend what they find to be justified, but I was simply critiquing the underlying logic of how these justifications work. In general, people take the wrong approach to a lot of this stuff, and that was what my point was about. Of course, the author can't be blamed for individual fans excusing what they did, but that doesn't change that they still did it. So yeah, you are right, you can't blame the author for the behaviour of their fans, and I never tried to say that. The simple truth of the matter is, that to say that fans are misrepresenting this piece of media, it is integral to prove that it does not only function as the product they perceive, but is also given context through the world we live in. You can't not critique the author, if you want to critique this kind of behaviour, because what I am trying to point out here, are people that only follow this world's internal logic, just like the author did. This is not about critiquing the author and their work, but to understand why these fans are wrong, you need to do that, because you only see their wrong-doing if you look at this story critically. So yeah, the author is not to blame for how their fans discuss this work, but we still have to critique them anyway, otherwise, it would be impossible to talk about the miscommunication from these kinds of people. |
Hello, please don't take anything I say as an insult, it is not meant as an attack against you as a person. If I directly disagree with you, that does not mean I think you are wrong, I am just more correct. |
Jul 3, 12:51 AM
#78
Reply to Lucianael
@Zarutaku To quote you here: "Characters do wrong things for a reason, and these reasons are what you described as "every excuse under the sun" in your post.
This is a discussion, so naturally people will point out the reasons of the character's actions and if they think they were justified, then they will defend them."
Of course, people will only defend what they find to be justified, but I was simply critiquing the underlying logic of how these justifications work. In general, people take the wrong approach to a lot of this stuff, and that was what my point was about. Of course, the author can't be blamed for individual fans excusing what they did, but that doesn't change that they still did it. So yeah, you are right, you can't blame the author for the behaviour of their fans, and I never tried to say that. The simple truth of the matter is, that to say that fans are misrepresenting this piece of media, it is integral to prove that it does not only function as the product they perceive, but is also given context through the world we live in. You can't not critique the author, if you want to critique this kind of behaviour, because what I am trying to point out here, are people that only follow this world's internal logic, just like the author did. This is not about critiquing the author and their work, but to understand why these fans are wrong, you need to do that, because you only see their wrong-doing if you look at this story critically. So yeah, the author is not to blame for how their fans discuss this work, but we still have to critique them anyway, otherwise, it would be impossible to talk about the miscommunication from these kinds of people.
This is a discussion, so naturally people will point out the reasons of the character's actions and if they think they were justified, then they will defend them."
Of course, people will only defend what they find to be justified, but I was simply critiquing the underlying logic of how these justifications work. In general, people take the wrong approach to a lot of this stuff, and that was what my point was about. Of course, the author can't be blamed for individual fans excusing what they did, but that doesn't change that they still did it. So yeah, you are right, you can't blame the author for the behaviour of their fans, and I never tried to say that. The simple truth of the matter is, that to say that fans are misrepresenting this piece of media, it is integral to prove that it does not only function as the product they perceive, but is also given context through the world we live in. You can't not critique the author, if you want to critique this kind of behaviour, because what I am trying to point out here, are people that only follow this world's internal logic, just like the author did. This is not about critiquing the author and their work, but to understand why these fans are wrong, you need to do that, because you only see their wrong-doing if you look at this story critically. So yeah, the author is not to blame for how their fans discuss this work, but we still have to critique them anyway, otherwise, it would be impossible to talk about the miscommunication from these kinds of people.
Lucianael said: This is not about critiquing the author and their work, but to understand why these fans are wrong, you need to do that, because you only see their wrong-doing if you look at this story critically. So yeah, the author is not to blame for how their fans discuss this work, but we still have to critique them anyway, otherwise, it would be impossible to talk about the miscommunication from these kinds of people. I'm not trying to judge it as right or wrong that people justify and defend certain actions based on individual interpretation of the story, and I wouldn't call it miscommunication because they just say how they perceive it. |
No, this isn't my signature. |
Jul 3, 1:09 AM
#79
Reply to Piromysl
MapleSyrupIce said:
if the debates have been on for 3 years over the same argument, then it's just proving that the character is suck?
SimplyBrazen said:
Because it has been overused as an argument for debate for the past 3 goddamn years. Using the same rhetorical bullshit to criticize a show for gets real annoying real fast. Fans have to deal with that hate constantly, so why are you surprised everyone has lost all patience?
Because it has been overused as an argument for debate for the past 3 goddamn years. Using the same rhetorical bullshit to criticize a show for gets real annoying real fast. Fans have to deal with that hate constantly, so why are you surprised everyone has lost all patience?
if the debates have been on for 3 years over the same argument, then it's just proving that the character is suck?
Repeating the same bullshit argument time and time again won't suddenly make it true or valid.
Wonder what that guy thinks of flat earthers and antivaxxers. Since, ya know. They've been having the argument for DECADES. |
Jul 3, 2:21 AM
#80
Reply to Malisa90
@mshfqtny
You know I just have to point out, because I'm "retarded" I think all of you are insane lunatics. So here's the deal, yes Rudeus and Roxy say that they are bad people yada yada yada, but the main point is that Rudy is absolutely always rewarded for EVERY bad decision he does. There's no punishment, there's no consequences for anything he does. In the whole show the only time Rudeus "paid" for his actions was with the Archer girl, end even then she was mad because he WOULDN'T FUCK HER!!?? The only reason why he goes to the magic academy was to cure his impotence, because Eris let's be honest just used him. And even she gets to be forgiven and becomes his third wife! How can you people justify this as good writing?! It's literally writers fetishistic desires because everyone agrees with it and nobody ever suffer the consequences in the end.
Also there was a post in here about Jaime Lannister, that was just most idiotic and insane thing I read today. The reason why people love him is because he suffered the consequences of his shitty actions and his cockiness, he actually becomes more sympathetic and nuanced because he comes to question his actions and morals in the end (and I'm talking about book Jaime not that travesty from HBO). And Rudeus never get's this treatment, he gets almost everything handed to him on a silver plate. The amount of times he got punished for HIS shitty actions is almost nonexistent and THAT is why people call you out and shit on your beloved "masterpiece" that is in simple words just a horny power fantasy and not a nuanced and intelligent show that you all claim it is.
Also there's nothing wrong with loving this show, I actually like it, it's entertaining and I have fun watching it, but at the same time I know that it's just trash without some bigger value that people are delusional about. It's fine loving something as long as you can see and understand why so many people are calling it bad and why some of their arguments are actually rock solid. But sadly that's not how people work and as soon as you attack something they love no matter how reasonable and factual the reasons are they see themselves as attacked because how can THEY be wrong for loving something!? No, that other person who is "attacking" them is wrong becaue if he isn't that means they are less inteligent than the "attacker".
You know I just have to point out, because I'm "retarded" I think all of you are insane lunatics. So here's the deal, yes Rudeus and Roxy say that they are bad people yada yada yada, but the main point is that Rudy is absolutely always rewarded for EVERY bad decision he does. There's no punishment, there's no consequences for anything he does. In the whole show the only time Rudeus "paid" for his actions was with the Archer girl, end even then she was mad because he WOULDN'T FUCK HER!!?? The only reason why he goes to the magic academy was to cure his impotence, because Eris let's be honest just used him. And even she gets to be forgiven and becomes his third wife! How can you people justify this as good writing?! It's literally writers fetishistic desires because everyone agrees with it and nobody ever suffer the consequences in the end.
Also there was a post in here about Jaime Lannister, that was just most idiotic and insane thing I read today. The reason why people love him is because he suffered the consequences of his shitty actions and his cockiness, he actually becomes more sympathetic and nuanced because he comes to question his actions and morals in the end (and I'm talking about book Jaime not that travesty from HBO). And Rudeus never get's this treatment, he gets almost everything handed to him on a silver plate. The amount of times he got punished for HIS shitty actions is almost nonexistent and THAT is why people call you out and shit on your beloved "masterpiece" that is in simple words just a horny power fantasy and not a nuanced and intelligent show that you all claim it is.
Also there's nothing wrong with loving this show, I actually like it, it's entertaining and I have fun watching it, but at the same time I know that it's just trash without some bigger value that people are delusional about. It's fine loving something as long as you can see and understand why so many people are calling it bad and why some of their arguments are actually rock solid. But sadly that's not how people work and as soon as you attack something they love no matter how reasonable and factual the reasons are they see themselves as attacked because how can THEY be wrong for loving something!? No, that other person who is "attacking" them is wrong becaue if he isn't that means they are less inteligent than the "attacker".
@Malisa90 first of all, don't talk about the eris situation without reading the novel. Secondly, you're talking about a complete different thing as i am. I addressed the most common 'criticism' I've seen. Which is the mc is a bad person, so the anime's bad. Which is wrong. Your argument talks about a complete different thing. Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point. Fourthly, what do you expect Sylphy to do in this situation. It is just because of her personality that she accepted this. It makes sense. If somebody else like eris was in her position, surely she wouldn't have accepted it. Norn didn't accept it. And yes, the author wanted to make a harem. That is why he made sylphy's character like that. What is wrong with that? You're saying harem animes shouldn't exist because it doesn't go along with your ideals? Well it doesn't go along with my ideals either. I remember getting angry at rudeus while reading these chapters. But guess what, polygamy still exists. And in the world of mushoku tensei polygamy is accepted except one country only. Okay i got a little bit sidetracked. Anyways there's a lot of cases where in a fiction the immoral protagonist doesn't receive the consequences for his actions and these fictions are still called masterpieces. Now you might say those fictions don't glorify it. Did Mushoku tensei ever glorified it? No. If you assume that rudeus' action should be followed it's your problem. If you read a murder news and think to yourself, "what if i do that too?" Then it is you who's the problem. Again it's a story were a flawed person tries to be not flawed. Rudeus is flawed. He knows it and the author knows it. I'm not saying you can't criticize it. But don't say the same invalid shit which has been debunked again and again. I'm not saying Mushoku tensei is perfect. Nothing is perfect. For example, i too didn't like how the author handled the situation with eris. That part is bad writing. |
mshfqtnyJul 3, 2:55 AM
Jul 3, 2:51 AM
#81
I don't know. Probably because "argument" against either always throwing context out of window or to some who thought ther are "deep", they tried to gaslight anything Rudeus done or any comeuppance come his way because it is not the way to become a "better person" according to their standard. |
I cannot bring myself to rate anime that I have completed below 5. Well, it just because I have use up my precious time to watch it. so, the worse you will get from me is 5 (changes may apply) |
Jul 3, 4:54 AM
#82
Reply to Zarutaku
Lucianael said:
This is not about critiquing the author and their work, but to understand why these fans are wrong, you need to do that, because you only see their wrong-doing if you look at this story critically. So yeah, the author is not to blame for how their fans discuss this work, but we still have to critique them anyway, otherwise, it would be impossible to talk about the miscommunication from these kinds of people.
This is not about critiquing the author and their work, but to understand why these fans are wrong, you need to do that, because you only see their wrong-doing if you look at this story critically. So yeah, the author is not to blame for how their fans discuss this work, but we still have to critique them anyway, otherwise, it would be impossible to talk about the miscommunication from these kinds of people.
I'm not trying to judge it as right or wrong that people justify and defend certain actions based on individual interpretation of the story, and I wouldn't call it miscommunication because they just say how they perceive it.
@Zarutaku but couldn't you call an interpretation of a work, that can be proven to be wrong, miscommunication between the author and the reader? There fundamentally isn't a wrong reaction to any work, but if you have an interpretation that is based on assumptions that can be proven to be false, then that very much is miscommunication between the author and reader. While I am not going to assume any nefarious intention when I talk to people that share views that can be harmful, those views are still harmful nonetheless. It very much can be wrong to defend certain actions, it at least can be wrong from the perspective of common moral and believes. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion, but as soon as you put that opinion into words, it becomes its own thing, a thing that can be argued against, that can be proven to be false, and you very much are responsible for what you say. In that regard, defending morally wrong actions under the pretext of a narrative that only justifies them internally, is still wrong. What I am arguing against here, is a very specific kind of reading, which I just so happen to have seen a ton of, I am not trying to turn this into a general statement that affects everyone that wants to discuss Mushoku Tensei. If you are able to give a reading of a piece of fiction that is unambiguously morally wrong, a reading that was either ignored by the creator or was made intentionally, then that is a flaw. The obscurer the reading, the less this flaw matters, but it is a flaw nonetheless. There is no such thing as a perfect narrative, but there certainly are stories that share a lot more of these moral flaws than others. In the case of MT, this flaw breaks down to a lack of reason for the internal sexism of the world, or rather a lack of consequence. If you present an inherently sexist world that oppresses its people, you need to show how your characters are effected by that, you need to make it clear that sexism has an effect, if you don't do that, if you ignore the implications of your world and story, then you are being sexist and the same goes for excusing these things. Now, it is important to make clear, that we can have a discussion about this stuff, without one side needing to actually be sexist, you can discuss this in a non-harmful way, but for that you need to be open to the readings of other people, and that is exactly what I am critiquing. There are so, so many people that only care about internal consistency, that only look at narrative flaws, but stories are supposed to say something, in fact they always do, and the sad reality is that MT just fails to see some of this stuff. If you are given proof of a flaw that you fail to refute, then you need to be able to accept that part, if you want to have a nuanced and functional discussion, you need to be able to change your views and part of that comes down to seeing the flaws in media you love, because at the end of the day, MT is sexist, and excusing sexism under the rules of a fictional world, to ignore logic and reason by arguing for a version of the world that does not exist, for a moral code that nobody follows, that is also sexist. I love Mushoku Tensei, it is a flawed show with so, so many problems I wish it didn't have, it is a show that gave me a sense of adventure like no other did, but no matter how dear it is to me, I will not ignore its flaws, because especially if you love this story, it is one to be approached critically, one to be questioned and thought about, both in the context of its many phenomenal lessons, but also in its sexism. |
LucianaelJul 3, 5:09 AM
Hello, please don't take anything I say as an insult, it is not meant as an attack against you as a person. If I directly disagree with you, that does not mean I think you are wrong, I am just more correct. |
Jul 3, 8:13 AM
#83
Reply to ZeroMajor12
Let me make this simple for you to understand.
Attack on Titan is literally about characters committing genocide, still, there are people out there saying it is one of the greatest anime ever written. In a moral sense, you should say AOT is a terrible show because it promotes war crimes and makes you listen to the perspective of a psychopathic somewhat messiah character trying to conduct a cleansing of the world. But even then, people like it because of the storytelling. It's the same as Death Note, people like it because of how the anime is adapted and the storytelling, not because it's about relatability. Trying to use flawed characters as a criticism of bad anime would make you look like a hypocrite because plenty of anime have morally ambiguous characters and it's been like this ever since then. I am not here to try and defend the character's actions, because it is logically disgusting, no matter how much you try to twist it. But even then, do those actions really define what the show is?
Attack on Titan is literally about characters committing genocide, still, there are people out there saying it is one of the greatest anime ever written. In a moral sense, you should say AOT is a terrible show because it promotes war crimes and makes you listen to the perspective of a psychopathic somewhat messiah character trying to conduct a cleansing of the world. But even then, people like it because of the storytelling. It's the same as Death Note, people like it because of how the anime is adapted and the storytelling, not because it's about relatability. Trying to use flawed characters as a criticism of bad anime would make you look like a hypocrite because plenty of anime have morally ambiguous characters and it's been like this ever since then. I am not here to try and defend the character's actions, because it is logically disgusting, no matter how much you try to twist it. But even then, do those actions really define what the show is?
@ZeroMajor12 I understand exactly what you mean. But the thing is I'm not talking about criticizing the show in general or even the writing. I'm talking specifically about critquing a character's actions. The same Attack on Titan example you used is great. People criticize Eren a lot (even though he has his fair share of ardent defenders who claim he did nothing wrong as well), but that doesn't mean they hate the show or even hate what Eren's character brings to the story. The same can be said about a lot of people who critique Rudeus. But a lot of the time that critique is met with people insulting you and labeling you a hater of the show lol |
Jul 3, 8:31 AM
#84
Reply to mshfqtny
@Malisa90 first of all, don't talk about the eris situation without reading the novel.
Secondly, you're talking about a complete different thing as i am. I addressed the most common 'criticism' I've seen. Which is the mc is a bad person, so the anime's bad. Which is wrong. Your argument talks about a complete different thing.
Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point.
Fourthly, what do you expect Sylphy to do in this situation. It is just because of her personality that she accepted this. It makes sense. If somebody else like eris was in her position, surely she wouldn't have accepted it. Norn didn't accept it. And yes, the author wanted to make a harem. That is why he made sylphy's character like that. What is wrong with that? You're saying harem animes shouldn't exist because it doesn't go along with your ideals? Well it doesn't go along with my ideals either. I remember getting angry at rudeus while reading these chapters. But guess what, polygamy still exists. And in the world of mushoku tensei polygamy is accepted except one country only. Okay i got a little bit sidetracked.
Anyways there's a lot of cases where in a fiction the immoral protagonist doesn't receive the consequences for his actions and these fictions are still called masterpieces. Now you might say those fictions don't glorify it. Did Mushoku tensei ever glorified it? No. If you assume that rudeus' action should be followed it's your problem. If you read a murder news and think to yourself, "what if i do that too?" Then it is you who's the problem. Again it's a story were a flawed person tries to be not flawed. Rudeus is flawed. He knows it and the author knows it.
I'm not saying you can't criticize it. But don't say the same invalid shit which has been debunked again and again. I'm not saying Mushoku tensei is perfect. Nothing is perfect. For example, i too didn't like how the author handled the situation with eris. That part is bad writing.
Secondly, you're talking about a complete different thing as i am. I addressed the most common 'criticism' I've seen. Which is the mc is a bad person, so the anime's bad. Which is wrong. Your argument talks about a complete different thing.
Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point.
Fourthly, what do you expect Sylphy to do in this situation. It is just because of her personality that she accepted this. It makes sense. If somebody else like eris was in her position, surely she wouldn't have accepted it. Norn didn't accept it. And yes, the author wanted to make a harem. That is why he made sylphy's character like that. What is wrong with that? You're saying harem animes shouldn't exist because it doesn't go along with your ideals? Well it doesn't go along with my ideals either. I remember getting angry at rudeus while reading these chapters. But guess what, polygamy still exists. And in the world of mushoku tensei polygamy is accepted except one country only. Okay i got a little bit sidetracked.
Anyways there's a lot of cases where in a fiction the immoral protagonist doesn't receive the consequences for his actions and these fictions are still called masterpieces. Now you might say those fictions don't glorify it. Did Mushoku tensei ever glorified it? No. If you assume that rudeus' action should be followed it's your problem. If you read a murder news and think to yourself, "what if i do that too?" Then it is you who's the problem. Again it's a story were a flawed person tries to be not flawed. Rudeus is flawed. He knows it and the author knows it.
I'm not saying you can't criticize it. But don't say the same invalid shit which has been debunked again and again. I'm not saying Mushoku tensei is perfect. Nothing is perfect. For example, i too didn't like how the author handled the situation with eris. That part is bad writing.
mshfqtny said: Secondly, you're talking about a complete different thing as i am. I addressed the most common 'criticism' I've seen. Which is the mc is a bad person, so the anime's bad. Which is wrong. Your argument talks about a complete different thing. This isn't what the original post is about though...so that's kinda on you in a way for bringing up something that wasn't even the topic of discussion |
Jul 3, 10:39 AM
#85
Reply to SkyhighCFC
@ZeroMajor12 I understand exactly what you mean. But the thing is I'm not talking about criticizing the show in general or even the writing. I'm talking specifically about critquing a character's actions. The same Attack on Titan example you used is great. People criticize Eren a lot (even though he has his fair share of ardent defenders who claim he did nothing wrong as well), but that doesn't mean they hate the show or even hate what Eren's character brings to the story. The same can be said about a lot of people who critique Rudeus. But a lot of the time that critique is met with people insulting you and labeling you a hater of the show lol
@SkyhighCFC Thanks for the reply and yes, I think people need to understand that you don't have to really justify or defend characters for every action deemed as morally wrong, because in the end they are still fictional, but as long as these characters continue to exist, these debates will always be sparked. If I were to bring up another example who got this kind of attention, I could say Itachi from Naruto (or maybe I'm wrong) or Shinji from Evangelion, back in the normie days. Because a lot of their actions were... confusing. SkyhighCFC said: But a lot of the time that critique is met with people insulting you and labeling you a hater of the show lol. I think that depends on the fandom though. But doesn't every fandom have this kind of debate now and then? Defending characters for their bad actions and saying how it's all justified for the greater good? These debates are kind of the whole point when you feature morally ambiguous characters and the whole insulting people for hating the show is kind of a common approach when you have everyone saying the show is bad because of said character. The best option to avoid would be to ignore the criticism, but sometimes I just read them so that I can use those words for my own experience or reviews as well. I feel like the worst part about Mushoku Tensei is that I can't speak about Mushoku Tensei or try to convince people to watch it because of the controversy it garnered for itself. Everything about it is being scrutinized to the last brim, and everyone just has answers to counter you for trying to watch the anime. It's a whole goddamn mess, bro. |
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Jul 3, 11:07 AM
#86
Reply to SkyhighCFC
@pielopelotta I agree with this. Most of the dialogue about MT from genuine haters is exhausting and petulant more often than not. That's not what this post is about though
@SkyhighCFC Yet, that's ultimately what the problem is. There's too much hate too have discussions about the moral complexities of the series. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 3, 11:18 AM
#87
Reply to Lucianael
@Zarutaku but couldn't you call an interpretation of a work, that can be proven to be wrong, miscommunication between the author and the reader? There fundamentally isn't a wrong reaction to any work, but if you have an interpretation that is based on assumptions that can be proven to be false, then that very much is miscommunication between the author and reader. While I am not going to assume any nefarious intention when I talk to people that share views that can be harmful, those views are still harmful nonetheless. It very much can be wrong to defend certain actions, it at least can be wrong from the perspective of common moral and believes. There is no such thing as a wrong opinion, but as soon as you put that opinion into words, it becomes its own thing, a thing that can be argued against, that can be proven to be false, and you very much are responsible for what you say. In that regard, defending morally wrong actions under the pretext of a narrative that only justifies them internally, is still wrong. What I am arguing against here, is a very specific kind of reading, which I just so happen to have seen a ton of, I am not trying to turn this into a general statement that affects everyone that wants to discuss Mushoku Tensei. If you are able to give a reading of a piece of fiction that is unambiguously morally wrong, a reading that was either ignored by the creator or was made intentionally, then that is a flaw. The obscurer the reading, the less this flaw matters, but it is a flaw nonetheless. There is no such thing as a perfect narrative, but there certainly are stories that share a lot more of these moral flaws than others. In the case of MT, this flaw breaks down to a lack of reason for the internal sexism of the world, or rather a lack of consequence. If you present an inherently sexist world that oppresses its people, you need to show how your characters are effected by that, you need to make it clear that sexism has an effect, if you don't do that, if you ignore the implications of your world and story, then you are being sexist and the same goes for excusing these things. Now, it is important to make clear, that we can have a discussion about this stuff, without one side needing to actually be sexist, you can discuss this in a non-harmful way, but for that you need to be open to the readings of other people, and that is exactly what I am critiquing. There are so, so many people that only care about internal consistency, that only look at narrative flaws, but stories are supposed to say something, in fact they always do, and the sad reality is that MT just fails to see some of this stuff. If you are given proof of a flaw that you fail to refute, then you need to be able to accept that part, if you want to have a nuanced and functional discussion, you need to be able to change your views and part of that comes down to seeing the flaws in media you love, because at the end of the day, MT is sexist, and excusing sexism under the rules of a fictional world, to ignore logic and reason by arguing for a version of the world that does not exist, for a moral code that nobody follows, that is also sexist.
I love Mushoku Tensei, it is a flawed show with so, so many problems I wish it didn't have, it is a show that gave me a sense of adventure like no other did, but no matter how dear it is to me, I will not ignore its flaws, because especially if you love this story, it is one to be approached critically, one to be questioned and thought about, both in the context of its many phenomenal lessons, but also in its sexism.
I love Mushoku Tensei, it is a flawed show with so, so many problems I wish it didn't have, it is a show that gave me a sense of adventure like no other did, but no matter how dear it is to me, I will not ignore its flaws, because especially if you love this story, it is one to be approached critically, one to be questioned and thought about, both in the context of its many phenomenal lessons, but also in its sexism.
@Lucianael Nah. Give me a TLDR to all this yapping, you're all over the damn place. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 3, 12:30 PM
#88
Reply to ZeroMajor12
@SkyhighCFC Thanks for the reply and yes, I think people need to understand that you don't have to really justify or defend characters for every action deemed as morally wrong, because in the end they are still fictional, but as long as these characters continue to exist, these debates will always be sparked. If I were to bring up another example who got this kind of attention, I could say Itachi from Naruto (or maybe I'm wrong) or Shinji from Evangelion, back in the normie days. Because a lot of their actions were... confusing.
I think that depends on the fandom though. But doesn't every fandom have this kind of debate now and then? Defending characters for their bad actions and saying how it's all justified for the greater good? These debates are kind of the whole point when you feature morally ambiguous characters and the whole insulting people for hating the show is kind of a common approach when you have everyone saying the show is bad because of said character. The best option to avoid would be to ignore the criticism, but sometimes I just read them so that I can use those words for my own experience or reviews as well.
I feel like the worst part about Mushoku Tensei is that I can't speak about Mushoku Tensei or try to convince people to watch it because of the controversy it garnered for itself. Everything about it is being scrutinized to the last brim, and everyone just has answers to counter you for trying to watch the anime. It's a whole goddamn mess, bro.
SkyhighCFC said:
But a lot of the time that critique is met with people insulting you and labeling you a hater of the show lol.
But a lot of the time that critique is met with people insulting you and labeling you a hater of the show lol.
I think that depends on the fandom though. But doesn't every fandom have this kind of debate now and then? Defending characters for their bad actions and saying how it's all justified for the greater good? These debates are kind of the whole point when you feature morally ambiguous characters and the whole insulting people for hating the show is kind of a common approach when you have everyone saying the show is bad because of said character. The best option to avoid would be to ignore the criticism, but sometimes I just read them so that I can use those words for my own experience or reviews as well.
I feel like the worst part about Mushoku Tensei is that I can't speak about Mushoku Tensei or try to convince people to watch it because of the controversy it garnered for itself. Everything about it is being scrutinized to the last brim, and everyone just has answers to counter you for trying to watch the anime. It's a whole goddamn mess, bro.
ZeroMajor12 said: I think that depends on the fandom though. But doesn't every fandom have this kind of debate now and then? Defending characters for their bad actions and saying how it's all justified for the greater good? These debates are kind of the whole point when you feature morally ambiguous characters and the whole insulting people for hating the show is kind of a common approach when you have everyone saying the show is bad because of said character. The best option to avoid would be to ignore the criticism, but sometimes I just read them so that I can use those words for my own experience or reviews as well. It does happen in other fandoms, absolutely. But I've noticed that it is especially prevalent with the MT fandom. I guess it's because of how scrutinized the series is as a whole like you mentioned later in your reply, that it's made fans hyper defensive. But at the same time it can be a pretty bad look. I've been legitimately attacked and insulted for saying "Rudeus cheating on Sylphie was bad actually" just as an example. I wasn't even saying I hate Rudeus or that I think what he did was completely irredeemable. But those persons were so obsessed with justifying it that they felt like I was attacking them personally. Sometimes people just want to critically discuss characters actions and their consequences and what it means in the overall narrative, and I think this is lost on a good chunk of the fandom. ZeroMajor12 said: I feel like the worst part about Mushoku Tensei is that I can't speak about Mushoku Tensei or try to convince people to watch it because of the controversy it garnered for itself. Everything about it is being scrutinized to the last brim, and everyone just has answers to counter you for trying to watch the anime. It's a whole goddamn mess, bro. At the same time I do 100% agree with this though. The discourse surrounding MT is exhausting at times because of people like this who can't handle the fact that MT handles controversial themes and they feel like people who watch it are evil. It is genuinely so frustrating sometimes. |
Jul 3, 12:32 PM
#89
Reply to LostSpectre
@SkyhighCFC Yet, that's ultimately what the problem is. There's too much hate too have discussions about the moral complexities of the series.
@LostSpectre I think the problem here then is that people need to stop jumping to conclusions, and instead, actually try to understand what the other party is trying to say rather than assuming they have some agenda. |
Jul 3, 12:44 PM
#90
Reply to LostSpectre
@Lucianael Nah. Give me a TLDR to all this yapping, you're all over the damn place.
@LostSpectre Here you go: The logic of a story does not only need to be judged from an internal perspective, but also from the context of our reality. An example: Let's say we have a narrative about a fictional setting in which all black people are evil by nature. One black person killed the protagonist's entire family, and now he is out for a quest of revenge, on which he will kill every single one of them. That's it, there are no plot twists that "well actually, black people aren't evil", no, they really are in this fictional setting, I hope we can agree that this is a horrible story. The normal hero revenge thing though is completely fine, this is what I mean with internal logic, in the logic of the narrative, there is no actual mistake, but through the lens of reality, it is still obviously a deeply racist narrative. Now apply that line of logic to Mushoku Tensei, and we get to the problem that I was talking about. Simply put, I see too many people ignoring the context of reality and instead only justifying actions through the internal logic of the setting. (Btw LostSpectre, you should probably ask for a TLDR instead of demanding one, I do not much care about you being rude, but other might and I don't think you should act like you are entitled to someone writing a TLDR for you) Have a good one |
Hello, please don't take anything I say as an insult, it is not meant as an attack against you as a person. If I directly disagree with you, that does not mean I think you are wrong, I am just more correct. |
Jul 3, 12:45 PM
#91
Reply to SkyhighCFC
@LostSpectre I think the problem here then is that people need to stop jumping to conclusions, and instead, actually try to understand what the other party is trying to say rather than assuming they have some agenda.
@SkyhighCFC It doesn't work like that when the VAST majority of people are moral grandstanding over fictional subject matters. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 3, 12:49 PM
#92
Reply to Lucianael
@LostSpectre Here you go:
The logic of a story does not only need to be judged from an internal perspective, but also from the context of our reality. An example:
Let's say we have a narrative about a fictional setting in which all black people are evil by nature. One black person killed the protagonist's entire family, and now he is out for a quest of revenge, on which he will kill every single one of them.
That's it, there are no plot twists that "well actually, black people aren't evil", no, they really are in this fictional setting, I hope we can agree that this is a horrible story. The normal hero revenge thing though is completely fine, this is what I mean with internal logic, in the logic of the narrative, there is no actual mistake, but through the lens of reality, it is still obviously a deeply racist narrative. Now apply that line of logic to Mushoku Tensei, and we get to the problem that I was talking about. Simply put, I see too many people ignoring the context of reality and instead only justifying actions through the internal logic of the setting.
(Btw LostSpectre, you should probably ask for a TLDR instead of demanding one, I do not much care about you being rude, but other might and I don't think you should act like you are entitled to someone writing a TLDR for you)
Have a good one
The logic of a story does not only need to be judged from an internal perspective, but also from the context of our reality. An example:
Let's say we have a narrative about a fictional setting in which all black people are evil by nature. One black person killed the protagonist's entire family, and now he is out for a quest of revenge, on which he will kill every single one of them.
That's it, there are no plot twists that "well actually, black people aren't evil", no, they really are in this fictional setting, I hope we can agree that this is a horrible story. The normal hero revenge thing though is completely fine, this is what I mean with internal logic, in the logic of the narrative, there is no actual mistake, but through the lens of reality, it is still obviously a deeply racist narrative. Now apply that line of logic to Mushoku Tensei, and we get to the problem that I was talking about. Simply put, I see too many people ignoring the context of reality and instead only justifying actions through the internal logic of the setting.
(Btw LostSpectre, you should probably ask for a TLDR instead of demanding one, I do not much care about you being rude, but other might and I don't think you should act like you are entitled to someone writing a TLDR for you)
Have a good one
@Lucianael Yeah, but you're ranting about sexism in a work targeted towards a male audience, so it really doesn't even apply. lol |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 3, 12:56 PM
#93
@SkyhighCFC "I've been legitimately attacked and insulted for saying "Rudeus cheating on Sylphie was bad actually" just as an example." Well, that's a genuinely dumb take, because Roxy clearly took advantage of him, whether or not she had good intentions. |
If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Jul 3, 1:27 PM
#94
Reply to LostSpectre
@Lucianael Yeah, but you're ranting about sexism in a work targeted towards a male audience, so it really doesn't even apply. lol
@LostSpectre I hope I don't need to explain why that is a bad argument |
Hello, please don't take anything I say as an insult, it is not meant as an attack against you as a person. If I directly disagree with you, that does not mean I think you are wrong, I am just more correct. |
Jul 3, 1:48 PM
#95
Reply to mshfqtny
@Malisa90 first of all, don't talk about the eris situation without reading the novel.
Secondly, you're talking about a complete different thing as i am. I addressed the most common 'criticism' I've seen. Which is the mc is a bad person, so the anime's bad. Which is wrong. Your argument talks about a complete different thing.
Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point.
Fourthly, what do you expect Sylphy to do in this situation. It is just because of her personality that she accepted this. It makes sense. If somebody else like eris was in her position, surely she wouldn't have accepted it. Norn didn't accept it. And yes, the author wanted to make a harem. That is why he made sylphy's character like that. What is wrong with that? You're saying harem animes shouldn't exist because it doesn't go along with your ideals? Well it doesn't go along with my ideals either. I remember getting angry at rudeus while reading these chapters. But guess what, polygamy still exists. And in the world of mushoku tensei polygamy is accepted except one country only. Okay i got a little bit sidetracked.
Anyways there's a lot of cases where in a fiction the immoral protagonist doesn't receive the consequences for his actions and these fictions are still called masterpieces. Now you might say those fictions don't glorify it. Did Mushoku tensei ever glorified it? No. If you assume that rudeus' action should be followed it's your problem. If you read a murder news and think to yourself, "what if i do that too?" Then it is you who's the problem. Again it's a story were a flawed person tries to be not flawed. Rudeus is flawed. He knows it and the author knows it.
I'm not saying you can't criticize it. But don't say the same invalid shit which has been debunked again and again. I'm not saying Mushoku tensei is perfect. Nothing is perfect. For example, i too didn't like how the author handled the situation with eris. That part is bad writing.
Secondly, you're talking about a complete different thing as i am. I addressed the most common 'criticism' I've seen. Which is the mc is a bad person, so the anime's bad. Which is wrong. Your argument talks about a complete different thing.
Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point.
Fourthly, what do you expect Sylphy to do in this situation. It is just because of her personality that she accepted this. It makes sense. If somebody else like eris was in her position, surely she wouldn't have accepted it. Norn didn't accept it. And yes, the author wanted to make a harem. That is why he made sylphy's character like that. What is wrong with that? You're saying harem animes shouldn't exist because it doesn't go along with your ideals? Well it doesn't go along with my ideals either. I remember getting angry at rudeus while reading these chapters. But guess what, polygamy still exists. And in the world of mushoku tensei polygamy is accepted except one country only. Okay i got a little bit sidetracked.
Anyways there's a lot of cases where in a fiction the immoral protagonist doesn't receive the consequences for his actions and these fictions are still called masterpieces. Now you might say those fictions don't glorify it. Did Mushoku tensei ever glorified it? No. If you assume that rudeus' action should be followed it's your problem. If you read a murder news and think to yourself, "what if i do that too?" Then it is you who's the problem. Again it's a story were a flawed person tries to be not flawed. Rudeus is flawed. He knows it and the author knows it.
I'm not saying you can't criticize it. But don't say the same invalid shit which has been debunked again and again. I'm not saying Mushoku tensei is perfect. Nothing is perfect. For example, i too didn't like how the author handled the situation with eris. That part is bad writing.
mshfqtny said: Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point. Let's not bullshit ourselves, he got there because God told him to go and that his "problems" would be resolved, not because he strictly wanted to. Yes I AM removing every good aspect BECAUSE we are talking about Rudeus and his idiotic actions. That's the whole point of this thread! There are plenty of times where Rudeus did something good, but overall he's a shit person who did much more bad things than good. Also about morality if we were looking from a genuine person from this world most of these things wouldn't matter but Rudeus is NOT a native to this world. He grew up in our world with our morals, so him getting multiple wives is literally having a cake and eating it too. Also your line about Sylphy is just LMAO. So let me get this straight If Eris was his first wife she would tell him to just fuck off and wouldn't let him/forgive him for taking Sylphie/Roxy as a second lover/wife. But hey she's "just" the third one so she can't complain at least she got something, right? This is the mindset of you people defending these characters. Also let's not forget all the other times where Rudeus straight up molested many female characters. But boys will be boys an I right fellows? The whole point is that he learned NOTHING from his actions. And you can't tell me that this is good writing because the WHOLE POINT of Rudeus was that he would go to redeem himself in this world for (in)actions that he did in our. |
Jul 3, 5:33 PM
#96
Reply to Malisa90
mshfqtny said:
Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point.
Thirdly, you're removing every good aspects and emphasizing on almost nonexistent bad aspects. If you weren't retarded you should have understood that rudeus didn't actually went to the magic academy just for ed but also for researching about the teleportation event and to find hints about his mother. Everything wouldn't be fed to you. There are things you need to realise yourself. But oh no, you're retarded. 'Haters' like you always tries to distort the facts to their own comfort zone to prove their point.
Let's not bullshit ourselves, he got there because God told him to go and that his "problems" would be resolved, not because he strictly wanted to. Yes I AM removing every good aspect BECAUSE we are talking about Rudeus and his idiotic actions. That's the whole point of this thread! There are plenty of times where Rudeus did something good, but overall he's a shit person who did much more bad things than good. Also about morality if we were looking from a genuine person from this world most of these things wouldn't matter but Rudeus is NOT a native to this world. He grew up in our world with our morals, so him getting multiple wives is literally having a cake and eating it too.
Also your line about Sylphy is just LMAO. So let me get this straight If Eris was his first wife she would tell him to just fuck off and wouldn't let him/forgive him for taking Sylphie/Roxy as a second lover/wife. But hey she's "just" the third one so she can't complain at least she got something, right? This is the mindset of you people defending these characters. Also let's not forget all the other times where Rudeus straight up molested many female characters. But boys will be boys an I right fellows? The whole point is that he learned NOTHING from his actions. And you can't tell me that this is good writing because the WHOLE POINT of Rudeus was that he would go to redeem himself in this world for (in)actions that he did in our.
@Malisa90 the thing is that you're forcibly making them sound like a problem when they are not. |
Jul 3, 6:23 PM
#97
Reply to LostSpectre
@SkyhighCFC It doesn't work like that when the VAST majority of people are moral grandstanding over fictional subject matters.
@LostSpectre There's no valid justification for jumping to conclusions and arguing based on assumptions. If I say "Rudeus doing x was messed up and he deserves whatever consequences come his way as a result", that is not an excuse for someone to insult me and call me a "hater" of the series, because they assume I'm some twitter freak. Or what? Are you saying the MT fandom are all just shallow children who lack the ability to think critically? |
Jul 3, 6:27 PM
#98
Reply to LostSpectre
@SkyhighCFC "I've been legitimately attacked and insulted for saying "Rudeus cheating on Sylphie was bad actually" just as an example."
Well, that's a genuinely dumb take, because Roxy clearly took advantage of him, whether or not she had good intentions.
Well, that's a genuinely dumb take, because Roxy clearly took advantage of him, whether or not she had good intentions.
@LostSpectre I've said this multiple times over the past 24 hours I feel like to different people but...multiple things can be true at once. You do understand that concept right? Yes, Roxy takes some of the responsibility because she took advantage of the situation like you said. But that doesn't mean that Rudeus is suddenly free of blame. He could have easily said no in that situation and that would have been the end of it. It's not like Roxy has the physical capacity to force Rudy into sex. He cheated, regardless of what circumstances lead to him cheating. |
Jul 3, 11:24 PM
#99
Jul 4, 5:37 PM
#100
Reply to SkyhighCFC
@LostSpectre There's no valid justification for jumping to conclusions and arguing based on assumptions. If I say "Rudeus doing x was messed up and he deserves whatever consequences come his way as a result", that is not an excuse for someone to insult me and call me a "hater" of the series, because they assume I'm some twitter freak.
Or what? Are you saying the MT fandom are all just shallow children who lack the ability to think critically?
Or what? Are you saying the MT fandom are all just shallow children who lack the ability to think critically?
SkyhighCFC said: Or what? Are you saying the MT fandom are all just shallow children who lack the ability to think critically? Well... we all know this is true, not only for MT fans but majority of anime fans overall. If anime fans had the ability to think critically we would have more anime shows like Vinland Saga, Monster, Pluto, Legend of Galactic Heroes and other great titles/adaptations instead of seasonal drivel that we usually get. |
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