Shingeki no Kyojin: The Final Season Part 2 Episode 12 Discussion

Xilver said:

It's a throwback to s3p1 where Historia saved Eren, literally and metophorically, back then Eren lost his will to live because of burden of ancestral sins(father's in this case), so he was asking her to eat him and save humanity. She refused and told him she's the worst girl in the world, and that humanity should get destroyed instead by the titans.


This basically foreshadows the rumbling.

AhriTheS3xyFox said:
Overall an okay season, the writing on how Mikasa and others with Maryleans that want to join to stop the bloodshed without in depth explanation aside from "Genocide". Armin and Mikasa are still bland side character regardless.

Most of the time it felt like fillers to me. anyway 5/10

The rumbling was nice though

Watchanime324 said:
‘everything… is still ahead’

this episode is the first real look into eren’s psyche since the timeskip and it’s centred on two main concepts: his determination and his self loathing. his venture into the outside world changes his perspective but it doesn’t stop him from following through.

for this it’s important to note that his coldness in his conversations with floch and historia is BEFORE he crosses the ocean. he can still view them all as enemies who he is fighting but he’s forced to accept the reality that they’re ‘all the same’ once he sees them for himself

hence during the rumbling as he reaches marley, his words overlap with the words he spoke in season 1 regarding the titans. his psyche reverts to that of a child’s (black/white) in order to carry out the decision made by an adult who understands the grey.

this understanding leads to extreme self loathing which we see through the refugees. the boy we’ve already seen in eren’s memory shard, and is important because he is a reflection of eren himself. an innocent who had everything taken away, his freedom taken away.

eren becomes the person who takes that freedom. he goes from victim to perpetrator, emphasised by the parallel to s1 with the shot of the shadow. eren becomes the thing he despised above all and that is why he is crying when mikasa finds him. he saw himself in that boy.

all of his words to mikasa strengthen his conversation to reiner in the basement.

‘i’m the same as you’

reiner and eren both made choices that stem from their nature which, regardless of original intent, will harm innocents. they both feel the full weight of that choice.

it aligns with a big message in aot. regardless of race, nationality, or creed we are all the same. there are always victims, there are always perpetrators but one-sided perspectives born from environment can blind you to that fact. ie people like floch or the marleyan empire.

it’s why the alliance are functionally set up to oppose eren. they seek mutual understanding where he would wipe that out. this is due to his determination mentioned before, he will always ‘keep moving forward’. even at the cost of himself/others he follows the memories he saw.

however the best way to see eren’s psyche is through mikasa. he thinks mikasa’s care HAS to be for a reason, he can’t comprehend the notion that she can just love him freely because he views himself as the very worst, hence he asks her the question.Why you care so much for me Mikasa" Because I saved you when we were kids or ... because I'm family?What am I to you Mikasa"

it’s the same reason he asks zeke about a possible ‘ackerbond’ later which he quickly dismisses. zeke can easily understand that mikasa just loves eren, because he also sees him in a positive light, unlike how eren views himself.

it’s also telling that at his lowest point
he turns to the person he’s always viewed as ‘stronger’ than himself. mikasa’s response stems from the disconnect between her emotions and her rationalisation at this point in time. eren with the scarf provided warmth, and the only thing she can equate that to is ‘family’.

‘the world is cruel but also beautiful’. it’s the beauty that allows her to carry on and in this episode we see her fully come to terms with eren representing both sides of that equation. she has always fought to protect that childhood ‘beauty’ but it now seems impossible.

mikasa used to look at the past, while eren looked at the future. this is where his memories play an important role. even in this episode we see how vital they are. his memories from grisha leave him unable to find joy in things for himself, like the ice cream.

this takes away from a key part of who eren is, a boy attempting to become free by being able to experience anything he wants without restraints. his memories rob him of that, and his future memories trap him even further because everything he sees happens with 100% accuracy.

this means aot’s world is deterministic ie the future is set in stone. so just like the attack titan (an extension of eren’s own nature) has been following a predetermined path set up by eren, he is now doing the same thing. eren is crafted to be trapped in every way

that’s why the juxtaposition of mikasa’s monologue with eren’s is so perfect (the japanese is the same for the anime). where eren only looks to the future (everything is still ahead), mikasa thinks of the possibility of changing that future (what if i chose another answer).

it calls back to their s3 convo & brings up the idea that mikasa can be more free than eren as she isn’t bound by the future.

this is also the case functionally. as an ackerman & asain, shes made up of the 2 lines that arent controlled by the founding titan. she is born ‘free’

mikasa and eren have been at the forefront of some of aots biggest developments, so its great that these concepts gain more layers and prominence as the series begins to wrap up.

it’s also important to understand that the concept of a future set in stone doesn’t take away from the AGENCY of our characters. this is because aot aligns with the philosophy of compatibilism (img below) which we see through eren. the future is only set in stone because it ultimately aligns with his own desires.

as he says in this episode: ‘everything happened by my will’.

yes the future is set in stone but it doesn’t mean eren/others are any less culpable for their actions. simply put in erens own words after he thinks of where it all began (hints at causal determinism):

‘it doesn’t matter’

this is eren’s choice and nothing takes away from that

ReaperCreeper said:
I sure hope that "Eren wouldn't be evil if he got some pussy" is meant to be taken as Mikasa's delusion, and not as fact.

Watchanime324 said:
‘everything… is still ahead’

this episode is the first real look into eren’s psyche since the timeskip and it’s centred on two main concepts: his determination and his self loathing. his venture into the outside world changes his perspective but it doesn’t stop him from following through.

for this it’s important to note that his coldness in his conversations with floch and historia is BEFORE he crosses the ocean. he can still view them all as enemies who he is fighting but he’s forced to accept the reality that they’re ‘all the same’ once he sees them for himself

hence during the rumbling as he reaches marley, his words overlap with the words he spoke in season 1 regarding the titans. his psyche reverts to that of a child’s (black/white) in order to carry out the decision made by an adult who understands the grey.

this understanding leads to extreme self loathing which we see through the refugees. the boy we’ve already seen in eren’s memory shard, and is important because he is a reflection of eren himself. an innocent who had everything taken away, his freedom taken away.

eren becomes the person who takes that freedom. he goes from victim to perpetrator, emphasised by the parallel to s1 with the shot of the shadow. eren becomes the thing he despised above all and that is why he is crying when mikasa finds him. he saw himself in that boy.

all of his words to mikasa strengthen his conversation to reiner in the basement.

‘i’m the same as you’

reiner and eren both made choices that stem from their nature which, regardless of original intent, will harm innocents. they both feel the full weight of that choice.

it aligns with a big message in aot. regardless of race, nationality, or creed we are all the same. there are always victims, there are always perpetrators but one-sided perspectives born from environment can blind you to that fact. ie people like floch or the marleyan empire.

it’s why the alliance are functionally set up to oppose eren. they seek mutual understanding where he would wipe that out. this is due to his determination mentioned before, he will always ‘keep moving forward’. even at the cost of himself/others he follows the memories he saw.

however the best way to see eren’s psyche is through mikasa. he thinks mikasa’s care HAS to be for a reason, he can’t comprehend the notion that she can just love him freely because he views himself as the very worst, hence he asks her the question.Why you care so much for me Mikasa" Because I saved you when we were kids or ... because I'm family?What am I to you Mikasa"

it’s the same reason he asks zeke about a possible ‘ackerbond’ later which he quickly dismisses. zeke can easily understand that mikasa just loves eren, because he also sees him in a positive light, unlike how eren views himself.

it’s also telling that at his lowest point
he turns to the person he’s always viewed as ‘stronger’ than himself. mikasa’s response stems from the disconnect between her emotions and her rationalisation at this point in time. eren with the scarf provided warmth, and the only thing she can equate that to is ‘family’.

‘the world is cruel but also beautiful’. it’s the beauty that allows her to carry on and in this episode we see her fully come to terms with eren representing both sides of that equation. she has always fought to protect that childhood ‘beauty’ but it now seems impossible.

mikasa used to look at the past, while eren looked at the future. this is where his memories play an important role. even in this episode we see how vital they are. his memories from grisha leave him unable to find joy in things for himself, like the ice cream.

this takes away from a key part of who eren is, a boy attempting to become free by being able to experience anything he wants without restraints. his memories rob him of that, and his future memories trap him even further because everything he sees happens with 100% accuracy.

this means aot’s world is deterministic ie the future is set in stone. so just like the attack titan (an extension of eren’s own nature) has been following a predetermined path set up by eren, he is now doing the same thing. eren is crafted to be trapped in every way

that’s why the juxtaposition of mikasa’s monologue with eren’s is so perfect (the japanese is the same for the anime). where eren only looks to the future (everything is still ahead), mikasa thinks of the possibility of changing that future (what if i chose another answer).

it calls back to their s3 convo & brings up the idea that mikasa can be more free than eren as she isn’t bound by the future.

this is also the case functionally. as an ackerman & asain, shes made up of the 2 lines that arent controlled by the founding titan. she is born ‘free’

mikasa and eren have been at the forefront of some of aots biggest developments, so its great that these concepts gain more layers and prominence as the series begins to wrap up.

it’s also important to understand that the concept of a future set in stone doesn’t take away from the AGENCY of our characters. this is because aot aligns with the philosophy of compatibilism (img below) which we see through eren. the future is only set in stone because it ultimately aligns with his own desires.

as he says in this episode: ‘everything happened by my will’.

yes the future is set in stone but it doesn’t mean eren/others are any less culpable for their actions. simply put in erens own words after he thinks of where it all began (hints at causal determinism):

‘it doesn’t matter’

this is eren’s choice and nothing takes away from that





The episode was amazing,great ost, great backgrounds, colors,expressions.....I was not sure how this 123 rearrangement will play out but in the end it was fine .


I must say this is my fav Aot season and this was one of my fav episodes.
Overall rating 10/10

Can't wait for the final part
Part 3 teaser https://twitter.com/anime_shingeki/status/1510640768473567243

Xilver said:
Baddest girl in the world is a mistranslation btw, a very funny one at that. But it's "the worst girl in the world"

Nick123asdf said:
Incredible series. There will never be such a franchise like shingeki. It’s on a way higher level than anything else, especially right now

lee_x said:
I really don't know what I watched. I haven't read the manga but is this the real final!? I guess no.. I don't understand anything about this last episode

LoomyTheBrew said:
A fantastic season and adaptation that really nailed this part of the manga. It’s a 10/10 for me easy. Let me say that I am relieved that it ended here because I don’t think I’m ready for the storm that will come online if the original ending is adapted 1:1, so I am glad we can all just appreciate the story up to this point where imo it’s been phenomenal.

Now, we have the last part of the story with the announcement of part 3, I have to speculate because ending of the manga is… less than ideal, but the anime could help remedy it.

If they do a 10 episode season, which seems to be what will happen, they’ll have a shit ton of run time to work with with only 9 chapters left. I see it going two ways:

1) The original ending, but expanded: This option wouldn’t necessarily be the worst thing. If they stretch out and explain some of the themes and motivations in the In addition, having a bigger epilogue would also be nice and rather than just the flashes we see in the original. Also if we could figure out what the hell happened to . I would be satisfied with it, even though it wouldn’t exactly be my ideal.

2. We get an anime original ending. One that actually gives a proper conclusion to Eren’s The solution is simple: That’s big thing most people I think are upset about. Also maybe But this isn’t the biggest priority. That’s all you have to do really. Yes, you could go the route of While that would be interesting, I just don’t think that’s the type of ending Isayama would want to leave us.

My second proposed ending at least keeps the built up ideals and goals the same until the end while preserving the rest of the ending. However I think option 1 is the most likely thing to happen and that wouldn’t be the end of the world. Anything would be better than a 1:1 recreation of the original ending.

notsofamousxD said:

marley is already dead, the strongest nation, paradis has demonstrated its strength no one will attack paradis unless they want to commit suicide. alliance is the new tybur of this era. its easy to understand. survey corps rarely had any plan, they made it later it didnt stop erwin

amagirinomikoto said:


for sure yes, i really appreciate that this isnt overrun with filler episodes. the animation has also been amazing as well - if there's a really impressive scene with really great animation i sometimes rewatch it 2 or 3 times haha. i was actually thinking of that while ranting in my earlier post. i've read a bit about the problems with the anime industry (like underpaid and overworked staff) so i always feel bad & hypocritical for complaining, but this time i just really needed to get that off my chest

i kind of have 2 problems which have really just been building up: 1) i have unintentionally been seeing countless spoilers for years now. on top of death spoilers (sasha's death, for one, was spoiled for me less than 24h after the chapter came out) and just general plot point spoilers, i also saw a spoiler for the ending with 0 context. i just want to hurry up and get past the spoilers i've seen. this is all on me though for not being careful enough online; 2) these final season parts being labelled as "parts" is driving me bananas. there are other shows i watch where i wait months/years between seasons, but thats bc theyre labelled as seasons. this being labelled as the "final season" is frustrating to me because i keep thinking its gonna end, then it doesnt. but i get what they're doing now, so if there ends up being a final season: part 4 (hopefully not though), i would understand

thanks so much for offering to answer my questions! i'll be honest though, i need a detailed recap of everything after s1 (which is why i'm turning to the manga now). i do have one thing thats been bugging me if you could help me out: i don't understand anything about floch. like who was he? what exactly was he doing? for lack of a better term, was he a bad/evil guy?