86 Episode 7 Discussion

Neion4ty7 said:


The main army was obliterated in the 1st year (more accurately few months) of the war with the legion. Survivors either were sent to camps(not alba), decided to keep fighting like theos first commander or were given higher positions in the military (but with no real power like lenas father and uncle) they technically still have an army as you can see from the lazy fucks always drinking and shit but they rarely train at all as most were recruited in order to round up the non Alba initially or joined after that. They do have a mine field and thousands of artillery batteries(most don't end up working due to low maintenance and dud rounds) in case the 86 do fail. On paper they have an army but reliable isn't a word i'd use to describe them especially since they expect the legion to shutdown in 2 years as per their programming and the fall of the giad empire.

The reason the alba have become reliant on the 86 is because the 1st few generations fought with the hope of having their families be sent back into the walls, which was a lie but the 86 probably werent 100% sure until probably Reis generation of conscripts and so by now the alba have no reason to think the 86 will just sit and die since the first few waves of 86 fought for their families and shit and they just expect the same.

DiabloMask said:


Interesting, this all was explained in the series, right? I remember the stuff about Legion getting shut down in 2 years but not much about the rest (maybe I should rewatch it). It makes sense now, thanks for the explanation.

Neion4ty7 said:


Im not sure if all this was mentioned in the anime, at least the part about the 1st few generations which in the LN showed Shins father>mother>rei get drafted wasnt in the anime but it might come up next ep or so.But yeah the 2 year thing and the army being rolled at the start were mentioned i believe.

NoGame_NoLife said:

Well there is not only black and white in the real world, there are people of color too. These people are opprossed but also seems to oppress black when they can.
But anyway oppressors are always bad. No doubt about that

I also like the fact that they don't have victim mentality. And I think it's because it's useless. Their world is set up to kill them no matter what, they resign themselves to their fate.

But I think you're wrong on something. It's not about honor, the Pigs want them dead so their ultimate form of rebellion is to stay alive and win.
This show is not telling us an heroic story, it's just a death sentence

theGodde said:
I agree all the stuff from the spearhead squadron's perspective is great

however I don't like how they portray the Alba. The only situation where one race is treated so poorly is ethnic hatred, such as with the Nazi's hatred of the Jews. However there has been no attempt to explain or rationalise the Abla's hatred of the 86. I think these days we get so much material on the victims of racism, but nothing on the perpetrators, which often have even more complex and deep motives.

Not all Nazis hated the Jews, but they all pretended they did because of underlying social tension. There is no social tension here. Lena can casually support the 86 and everyone just gives her looks of pity, as if she's trying to help robot drones. However you don't hate drones. You don't massacre drones for the fun of it. You don't actively kill and toy with your fighting force when it actually puts the war effort in jeopardy. They are trying to go for a Nazi Germany and Soviet Union approach to second class citizens and it doesn't work because they have two different motivations

I have a theory that could justify this situation, however I don't want to know it it's correct because then that'll spoil the series for me

Drippysid said:
Boring boring boring boring af. I don't feel sad for a single character in this show.

Drippysid said:
Boring boring boring boring af. I don't feel sad for a single character in this show.

_MadeInHeaven_ said:

what i mean black and white is not race, but when we see contemporary issues in modern world, we often got presented one sided narrative why A is wrong, B is bad and vice versa
while the deeper context of the issue might reveal that A is as bad as B or B is bad for a reason.

well you might be right about the honor part, but is till think a battle thrall that still protect their overlord despite all the misshapen are honorable warriors

addie1998 said:


Maybe the show isn't trying to make you feel sad for the characters? Do you think every anime aims to make you feel sorry for deaths, especially in the context of a war anime? You need to watch more genres. Look into the bigger picture.

_MadeInHeaven_ said:

what i mean black and white is not race, but when we see contemporary issues in modern world, we often got presented one sided narrative why A is wrong, B is bad and vice versa
while the deeper context of the issue might reveal that A is as bad as B or B is bad for a reason.

well you might be right about the honor part, but is till think a battle thrall that still protect their overlord despite all the misshapen are honorable warriors


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfSjs_6MZOQ
having a military junta state that hates a particular race is perfectly justifiable
however, i do like your idea if there should be better reasoning why Alba hates 86, makes the conflict even more grey

theGodde said:
you have to understand that that monologue is not him actually stating how he truly believes things work. That is simply the political rhetoric that the German people are fed by the Nazis in order to philosophise and justify why they think the way they think, despite the fact that the reasons are far more petty and go much deeper. This is a clear example of the nuance that goes with racism, logically you claim to believe one thing, however the real reason you believe such a thing is completely different.

the main reason why I believe the Alba need more reason is because this show is trying to be grounded and realistic (not with the science and the mechs, but with the characters and plot. And having a comically evil race of people really took me personally out of the show. My core belief is that you can empathise with anyone if you take the time to understand how and why they think and act the way they do. So when I see these paper motives it really irritates me because it's fundamentally reductive to human nature

_MadeInHeaven_ said:

no sorry, i was referring to San Magnolia govt not the Alba people
i think that the average Alba people does not care about 86 since they mainly believe that Juggernauts are pilotless mechs, and the young people in the military were taught that they are humanoid pigs that fails evolving to human. It does perfectly fit the narrative of Nazi, in order to create an obedient citizen you have to propagate that your ideals were able to subdue the great evil.

theGodde said:
and thus we have come full circle
I disagree that the young Alban serviceman would treat the 86 in that way if they did not have some grudge or agenda. If they treated them simply as humanoid drones, then their constant mishandling of the 86 for the sole purpose of being evil and mean spirited towards them doesn't make any sense. If they simply viewed them as humanoid drones, then why are they spending most of their time actively undermining the war effort for the sake of persecuting the 86?

UTMAN said:


You will have your answer next week. (or at most in 2 weeks)

It's nice to see people having interesting conversations regarding 86, but seriously they really need to stop jumping into conclusions too fast based on informations they don't have 100% insight on.

theGodde said:

there is only one possible explanation that could justify the seemingly conflicting nature of the Alba, and that is if the Legion are actually being used by the Alba as a means of maintaining control
if that's not true, then I can't forsee any other development that could retroactively fix the characters. They could explore the characters in future episodes and flesh them out, but that wouldn't change the exaggerated and comically evil behaviour of the Alba in previous episodes

UTMAN said:


Well it's an interesting hypothesis I'll give you that. I'm not going to tell you whether you are right or wrong.

If you listened to Raiden. Not all Alba is evil. Some of them REALLY don't approve this. Most of them are just don't really care whatever happens to the 86-ers as long as it doesn't affect them.

Basically there is a phisical war, but there is also a "morality" war between the Alba and 86-ers.

What makes you human?
This is going to be very basic and the whole picture is more complex than this but bare with me:
Like the Alba thinks that they are more Human than the 86-ers because of blood, purity and origin. etc etc.

While the 86-ers way of thinking, is this is not what makes you. You are the pigs, we are human. We are the ones protecting/dying/bleeding for the country and not you.

Also if the 86-ers would let the legion trough, and let the Republic die, the Alba inside would easily post-justify their stance on the 86 and act like they are the victim there.

theGodde said:

I'm fine with the way the 86 were handled, it is very nuanced and relatable. However the Alba were missing one major element from what you have described, and that is a realistic spectrum of opinion. The show has only shown us evil, ignorant, or apathetic people so far, with only the main girl actually giving a shit. As for the Alba believing they are more human, that's fine. There is a historical precedent for this so we can see how it should play out. The issue is there is a big gap between "the 86 are lesser beings that should serve us" to "the 86 are so much lower than us that persecuting and putting them in their place is a priority beyond winning the war". And again, there is only one precedent for this, and that is Nazi Germany. And in order to achieve such a mindset they created a culture of fear and control. However the Alba appear to be fairly free-thinking. I can't see any signs of political rhetoric and oppression against the 86 because most people don't even know they exist.

When you raise people with our modern morals (which is what the Alba appear to have), and then inform them that the drone army is actually piloted by real people and to treat them like robots, at least 90% of us would react in some way like the main protagonist. I find it unrealistic that every other person we've met is either apathetic or evil.

UTMAN said:


Well. To be fair we didn't really meat any noteworthy Alba, just some minor ones.
Like there is Lena, her Uncle (he despises something but it's not the 86. Hopefully we will get this in next episode), Anette (she also has some secrets).

Not any of them were "evil" as you say. Also we met some foot soilders that were assholes.


For the second part, about raising people with modern morals, same again. KKK still active in the US where people actually believe that black people are sub-human. In my country there are a lot of people despise Romani people.

Younger Alba are really brainwashed. They do think that all people should have freedom etc. But the problem is 86-ers are not human in their eyes.

There is a really good quite from the LN

“No country would ever consider it an act of evil to deny a pig human rights.

Therefore, if you were to define someone speaking a different tongue, someone of a different color, someone of a different heritage as a pig in human form, any oppression, persecution, or atrocity you might inflict upon them would never be regarded as cruel or inhumane.”

theGodde said:

I'm curious now,
do the general population of Alba know the 86 exist (and just not that they're piloting the mechs). Because I don't think it has quite been elaborated yet.

also humans think for themselves. You can call a black man a pig, and many people will still decide they deserve human rights based off their own process of thought. Universal brainwashing doesn't work. In every country you will find intolerant people. In the middle east, Jews are hated by muslims to the point that comparing someone to a Jew is considered the worst possible insult imaginable. And that manifests in their culture and literature, as well as the way in which they talk about Jews. Meanwhile the 86 just seem apathetic in attitude, which contrasts the way they treat the 86, which is incredibly intolerant and hateful.

anyway, I feel like I'm saying the same thing over and over again in different words. TLDR; from what has been shown so far, the Alba are portrayed with two conflicting concepts of racism mixing in, which to me makes it feel strange and jarring. I hope it changes in the future. That is all

Neion4ty7 said:


oh wtf 3.4 isnt even bad on that site vivy is only 3.8

Just_Chicken said:


Yeah it's so weird. The settings is more close to Nazi Germany than anything. Most of the 86 can be classified as "white" anyway.

Kayle_x_Morgana said:

Obviously they are all white since this is an anime. it was just a comparison. In this case it would be "Hair and eye color" guilt.
I don't know how it would compare to germany since this is about a girl having (white) guilt and feeling sorry what is happening to these people.

Deadloked said:
Do we have to know what is on anju's back?

UTMAN said:


We know.

Deadloked said:


Thx man i tryed to read it a few times but i couldnt.
This means that her mother had her with a Alba?