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Apr 15, 2020 1:34 PM

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ysphyr said:
Why does this bother you? It’s not like the industry gonna change because MAL users want something to be banned/removed.


Funimation getting more involved has people running around terrified even though they have been involved in the industry for over two decades. They saw shows like Carole and Tuesday and believe that's how most anime will be in the future which I believe is blown out of proportion. For every one "woke" anime, there will still be dozens they can turn their attention to. Funimation has done hypocritical things before but I don't think things will be as bad as people are thinking it will be.
terminador_2397Apr 15, 2020 4:05 PM
Apr 15, 2020 1:41 PM

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Also

Let's say for the sake of the argument 'looking at lolicon material turned John Doe into a pervert over a real kid.

Saying "We need to outlaw this thing that affects a handful of perverts out of thousands who remain harmless" is the same thing as saying "We need to outlaw superhero comics because children MIGHT find them and MIGHT kill themselves by trying to fly off the roof like Superman".

It's stupid and illogical, captain.



Apr 15, 2020 1:46 PM

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Peaceful_Critic said:
Zeroflamez said:

People just have to learn to laugh at these kind of stupid things Anime does because most times it isn't coming from a place of hate. It's coming from a place of just not knowing or not thinking it is necessarily bad.
The problem is less of the intent and more of the possible harm it could cause. I'm not assuming the person who made it is racist just that it reinforces negative stereotypes which it totally can do btw:
"Research supporting this hy-pothesis shows that heavy as compared to light television viewers have more ste-reotypical perceptions about racial minorities, sexist beliefs about women, and negative attitudes toward those with mental illnesses (Armstrong, Neuendorf, & Brentar, 1992; Busselle & Crandall, 2002; Diefenbach & West, 2007; Gerbner et al., 2002; Ward, 2002). These real-world estimates (first-order effects) can also affect beliefs, values, and policy preferences (second-order effects)"-Chapter 17, pg 387, Mental Models
People typically base their opinions on anecdotes and personal experiences. So by having it the norm that Asians or black people act this way in every media ever, you can have it subconsciously seeped into your perception of the world because that's all you ever see of those groups.

Those stereotypes are supposed to be based on some truth, that's why you would never see a black joke where the black person is speaking in an Irish accent. Because the absurdness of it isn't itself the joke in stereotype comedy. The fact that it's an exaggerated representation of what they are actually like is the joke. That's the message sent. That the said group is like this, just not quite to that extent.


Care to elaborate more on the stereotype things? I don't quite get what you're trying to say. Yes media can create misconceptions on people or things. However you cannot put full responsibility on a T.V show or music as to why someone has a negative opinion or misconception on a group of people. If a person chooses to believe everything a TV show tells them. That is their OWN fault. One of my favorite movies is Team America World Police. It stereotypes all Middle Easterns as terrorists and is actually quite racist. I saw this movie when I was 12 years old. Do I think all Middle Eastern people are terrorists now or I did back then? No. Because I knew better than to create my opinions based off of entertainment.
Apr 15, 2020 1:48 PM

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I do think people like that are retarded as well. But as long as their not the majority all is well. I like ecchi, I dislike how its used to cover plot holes. But I think anime is better off with the ecchi and excessive fanservice, then without it. It works as a welcome distraction and a refresher, in case the story gets to serious or to boring.
Apr 15, 2020 1:48 PM

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Definitely agree on the virtue signalers. Some of the most fake and pathetic people on this planet. They're all over social media.
Apr 15, 2020 1:55 PM

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Daniel_Naumov said:
_Nette_ said:
Cultural imperialists who want to forcibly bend another culture to satisfy their own views.

It’s why the UN has tried to make people think japan is a country of pedophiles. Ironic the real child molesters try to demonize anime and japan.

It’s all to serve a goal of cultural homogeny to facilitate a one world government. There’s no fighting it. Just sit back and watch all you love perverted and destroyed by outsiders.

Japanese internal crime rates and statistics, released annually by the NAP, have proven UN claims to be true and keep proving them with every new fiscal year. UN is simply fulfilling its duty to the adults and the children to protect the children and prevent the adults from committing even more atrocities upon the world. The cultural apathy and lack of moral guidelines are amongst the factors that facilitate these cruel, unbelievable statistics on children misuse and abuse.


Lol you are joking right? Japan has one of the lowest rates of rape and child abuse in the world. I think it might actually be the lowest in the world.

@Tolkienfan365

SJWs by definition are radical feminists. While the two guys in that thread specifically might've been classic elitists, there are a lot of SJWs who say the exact same shit but have different motivations.

@Manaban

Why are you in denial about the threat that feminism and SJW ideology poses to ecchi? Has it ever occurred to you that the reason Japan creates so much ecchi for us to enjoy is because it is ideologically a right-wing libertarian nation? 1999-2012 was like the peak of right-wing libertarianism in the US and we got stuff like this being made...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGxJGvw_sUg

Directors like Tom Phillips have complained that woke culture is directly responsible for why stuff like this isn't getting made anymore. The right supports traditional femininity which is the basis of sexual attraction if you are a heterosexual man. Right wingers support the idea that men objectifying women is natural, a part of being a man, and not even misogynistic to begin with but actually necessary to build loving marriages. They support helping women understand men's sexual nature better, accept it, and work with it instead of demonizing it as inherently rapey and patriarchal.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/01/male-sexual-nature-primer-college-educated/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/12/men-see-women-sex-objects-its-not-misogynist-its-reality/
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Apr 15, 2020 1:59 PM
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@Zeroflamez
Care to elaborate more on the stereotype things?

Do you mean my view on stereotype humor, what stereotypes they are, or how negative stereotype causes harm? I talked about stereotypes throughout my whole post, you need to be more specific on what you want to me to address.

However you cannot put full responsibility on a T.V show or music as to why someone has a negative opinion or misconception on a group of people.

I'm not and that was never a position I held(#82). I'm just giving TV some responsibility, in that it can reinforce bad ideas via messaging.

If a person chooses to believe everything a TV show tells them. That is their OWN fault.

People who believe in the media's depiction come from a lack of positive personal experiences or any experience with that group. The fact that someone else shares the view reinforces said belief or may introduce them to a belief they would hold. It's not believing everything. It's more of an agreement or assuming something is true based on the prevalence to which it is shown.

Do I think all Middle Eastern people are terrorists now or I did back then? No. Because I knew better.

You might not, but a lot of people have unfavorable views of Muslims and think of them as possible terrorists.
Apr 15, 2020 2:01 PM
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Ryuk9428 said:
Daniel_Naumov said:

Japanese internal crime rates and statistics, released annually by the NAP, have proven UN claims to be true and keep proving them with every new fiscal year. UN is simply fulfilling its duty to the adults and the children to protect the children and prevent the adults from committing even more atrocities upon the world. The cultural apathy and lack of moral guidelines are amongst the factors that facilitate these cruel, unbelievable statistics on children misuse and abuse.


Lol you are joking right? Japan has one of the lowest rates of rape and child abuse in the world. I think it might actually be the lowest in the world.

@Tolkienfan365

SJWs by definition are radical feminists. While the two guys in that thread specifically might've been classic elitists, there are a lot of SJWs who say the exact same shit but have different motivations.

@Manaban

Why are you in denial about the threat that feminism and SJW ideology poses to ecchi? Has it ever occurred to you that the reason Japan creates so much ecchi for us to enjoy is because it is ideologically a right-wing libertarian nation? 1999-2012 was like the peak of right-wing libertarianism in the US and we got stuff like this being made...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGxJGvw_sUg

Directors like Tom Phillips have complained that woke culture is directly responsible for why stuff like this isn't getting made anymore. The right supports traditional femininity which is the basis of sexual attraction if you are a heterosexual man. Right wingers support the idea that men objectifying women is natural, a part of being a man, and not even misogynistic to begin with but actually necessary to build loving marriages. They support helping women understand men's sexual nature better, accept it, and work with it instead of demonizing it as inherently rapey and patriarchal.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/01/male-sexual-nature-primer-college-educated/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/12/men-see-women-sex-objects-its-not-misogynist-its-reality/

Again, be careful when claiming that you know what "right left upper right lower central" want. Your perception of how ideologies works is based on an unhealthy, decaying system I recon you are a part of - United States of America. The "Left" and "Right" exist only in your might as a part of the massive, century-long brainwashing campaign and nation dividing. Try not to make your abusers proud by repeating their agenda.
Re:formed
Apr 15, 2020 2:06 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:

Why are you in denial about the threat that feminism and SJW ideology poses to ecchi?


Probably because he's afraid of being called a racist by the PC police. His location says Germany, we all know how uptight they are about that sort of thing over there.

Daniel_Naumov said:

Again, be careful when claiming that you know what "right left upper right lower central" want. Your perception of how ideologies works is based on an unhealthy, decaying system I recon you are a part of - United States of America. The "Left" and "Right" exist only in your might as a part of the massive, century-long brainwashing campaign and nation dividing. Try not to make your abusers proud by repeating their agenda.


Thank god us poor, deluded Americans can rely on the wisdom of the most pompous man in the universe to set us straight

Mod edit: Merged double post. Please use the edit button.
MrZawaApr 16, 2020 1:06 PM
Apr 15, 2020 2:21 PM

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Daniel_Naumov said:
Ryuk9428 said:


Lol you are joking right? Japan has one of the lowest rates of rape and child abuse in the world. I think it might actually be the lowest in the world.

@Tolkienfan365

SJWs by definition are radical feminists. While the two guys in that thread specifically might've been classic elitists, there are a lot of SJWs who say the exact same shit but have different motivations.

@Manaban

Why are you in denial about the threat that feminism and SJW ideology poses to ecchi? Has it ever occurred to you that the reason Japan creates so much ecchi for us to enjoy is because it is ideologically a right-wing libertarian nation? 1999-2012 was like the peak of right-wing libertarianism in the US and we got stuff like this being made...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGxJGvw_sUg

Directors like Tom Phillips have complained that woke culture is directly responsible for why stuff like this isn't getting made anymore. The right supports traditional femininity which is the basis of sexual attraction if you are a heterosexual man. Right wingers support the idea that men objectifying women is natural, a part of being a man, and not even misogynistic to begin with but actually necessary to build loving marriages. They support helping women understand men's sexual nature better, accept it, and work with it instead of demonizing it as inherently rapey and patriarchal.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/01/male-sexual-nature-primer-college-educated/

https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/12/men-see-women-sex-objects-its-not-misogynist-its-reality/

Again, be careful when claiming that you know what "right left upper right lower central" want. Your perception of how ideologies works is based on an unhealthy, decaying system I recon you are a part of - United States of America. The "Left" and "Right" exist only in your might as a part of the massive, century-long brainwashing campaign and nation dividing. Try not to make your abusers proud by repeating their agenda.


Nah, I've dated two very Christian girls and went to a college surrounded by mildly feminist minded girls. People say Christian girls are prudes but in reality they are much more practically minded and understand men's nature better than feminist women do. The so called sexually liberated girls I've noticed may be willing to sleep with a random guy they met at a bar but girls from right-wing families cherish men more and consider relationships with men to be more important to their happiness. Girls from those families and countries are more motivated to seek out relationships and intimacy with men because of the strong emphasis traditional values places on marriage and family. So there's more acceptance of men's nature and desire to appeal to it and part of that nature is being highly aroused by visual stimuli. So in turn, girls maintain their beautiful and soft nature better.

And the whole no sex until married thing. I think that's only a thing among girls who are really extreme about it. For me it really didn't take that long. I think as long as they know you are more commitment oriented and aren't the type to run out on them afterward they have more confidence in having sex with you.
Ryuk9428Apr 15, 2020 2:28 PM
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Apr 15, 2020 2:27 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:

SJWs by definition are radical feminists. While the two guys in that thread specifically might've been classic elitists, there are a lot of SJWs who say the exact same shit but have different motivations.



My point is there are differences between Rad Fems or TERFS who for instance aren't tolerant towards trans people where most SJWs would find that view repulsive. There is a lot of infighting about as bad anywhere else. Political and social views are complicated I share many opinions that so called anti SJWs have but I also dislike many elements from that group. Plus is there really any group at all outside we don't like the so called SJWs? I definitely don't have much in common with a lot of populist right wing groups or freaking guys like One Angry Gamer who is about as deranged as some of the most extreme SJWs out there.

The point is a lot of people who say hate anime/manga don't have a problem with heavily sexualized art. That is why there is a running joke on twitter since the people who dunk on anime twitters horny posting are usually furries who also do that. TERFS though would find any pornographic material dehumanizing in some way. So on that issue they would disagree.

I am just trying to clarify they don't like a lot of things around how we depict sexuality in comparison to being against sexuality entirely.

Kami_sama_ said:

Well you are in quite the minority, Hentai was the second most searched term on Pornhub last year.


Huh..... if they were smart studios should start working with them lol. Maybe we can see more high quality hentai in the future.

Mod edit: Merged double post. Please use the edit button.
MrZawaApr 16, 2020 1:07 PM
Apr 15, 2020 2:49 PM
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epidemia78 said:
Daniel_Naumov said:

Again, be careful when claiming that you know what "right left upper right lower central" want. Your perception of how ideologies works is based on an unhealthy, decaying system I recon you are a part of - United States of America. The "Left" and "Right" exist only in your might as a part of the massive, century-long brainwashing campaign and nation dividing. Try not to make your abusers proud by repeating their agenda.


Thank god us poor, deluded Americans can rely on the wisdom of the most pompous man in the universe to set us straight

Not at all. It would be enough if individuals started reflecting upon their own values, their flawed society and their narrow worldview. Seeing things from other perspectives, not bound by the dogmas of their childhood. To realize the world for what it is, not for what the morally corrupt adults, slaves to the system their grandfather build, made you to be.
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Apr 15, 2020 2:54 PM

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1977
Peaceful_Critic said:
@Zeroflamez
Care to elaborate more on the stereotype things?

Do you mean my view on stereotype humor, what stereotypes they are, or how negative stereotype causes harm? I talked about stereotypes throughout my whole post, you need to be more specific on what you want to me to address.

However you cannot put full responsibility on a T.V show or music as to why someone has a negative opinion or misconception on a group of people.

I'm not and that was never a position I held(#82). I'm just giving TV some responsibility, in that it can reinforce bad ideas via messaging.

If a person chooses to believe everything a TV show tells them. That is their OWN fault.

People who believe in the media's depiction come from a lack of positive personal experiences or any experience with that group. The fact that someone else shares the view reinforces said belief or may introduce them to a belief they would hold. It's not believing everything. It's more of an agreement or assuming something is true based on the prevalence to which it is shown.

Do I think all Middle Eastern people are terrorists now or I did back then? No. Because I knew better.

You might not, but a lot of people have unfavorable views of Muslims and think of them as possible terrorists.

T.V yes can reinforce bad ideas but so can many other things including personal experiences and growing up in an environment around people that share those same beliefs. If a person is agreeing and believing that a racist depiction of a group of people is indeed the truth, then that person likely already had that seed of belief in their mind before even watching whatever it is that was reinforcing that thought process. Better portrayal of people on television will not fix that. Positive experience with those people will fix that. Yes a lot of people do have unfavorable views of Muslims and them being portrayed in a positive light in entertainment will not stop it. Once people have made up their minds the only thing that changes it is life experiences.

I don't understand what you mean about stereotypes, do you not find them funny? or do you think they're bad? That's what I mean.
Apr 15, 2020 3:02 PM

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402
People who bark the loudest against something (for example, smut), are usually the ones waste deep in it.

Now don't get that confused with people who will voice their opinion against something they don't agree with. What I mean, are the people who full on crusade against it.

The irony is palpable.
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Apr 15, 2020 3:04 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:


Nah, I've dated two very Christian girls and went to a college surrounded by mildly feminist minded girls. People say Christian girls are prudes but in reality they are much more practically minded and understand men's nature better than feminist women do.


I am sure this will blow everyone's mind but yeah.

I am also a Christian girl who simply believes in the freedom of speech (art included).

I am pretty prude though. xD Like not into sexual stuff at all. If others want to look at it, that's their business.



Apr 15, 2020 3:13 PM
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564137
@Zeroflamez
T.V yes can reinforce bad ideas but so can many other things including personal experiences and growing up in an environment around people that share those same beliefs.

And my goal is to discourage everything that reinforces bad ideas. I want to hold news and people accountable for the things they spread. This includes TV shows as they shouldn't be playing a part in it.

If a person is agreeing and believing that a racist depiction of a group of people is indeed the truth, then that person likely already had that seed of belief in their mind before even watching whatever it is that was reinforcing that thought process. Better portrayal of people on television will not fix that.

Nor would getting rid of any other single element remove that racist belief, but getting rid of it in media would help a great deal regardless. As I showed you above it can very much influence people.

Positive experience with those people will fix that.

Not by itself, they could be under the belief that the person is an exception to the rule. There are sexist or racist people out there with a positive experience with a said sex or race, but still, adamantly hold on to those views.

I don't understand what you mean about stereotypes, do you not find them funny? or do you think they're bad? That's what I mean.

Stereotypes are common beliefs or depictions about a group of people(that's what I mean when I say them). I find them to be bad as I am one for judging people on an individual basis instead of shallow qualities such as skin color or sex.
Apr 15, 2020 3:41 PM

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I agree! I've encountered a lot anime fans/otakus/weebs who shit on other people's tastes for no reason. It's 100% okay to like a show even if there's no secret/deep meaning behind it. It doesn't mean you have to like what they like, just respect other people's opinions on things.

Another thing that isn't mentioned much is anime fans shitting on k-pop stans. I can't count how many times I've talked to someone online/irl about anime, and then as soon as I mention k-pop, they just act like I'm not a human being anymore? It's okay if you don't like BTS, Red Velvet, or any group in general, but I seriously can't understand why people can't be mature for 3 seconds and realize that not everyone likes what they like. Literally anime and k-pop are possibly the 2 most made fun of things in the universe, so why are we ganging up on each other? ●︿● Why can't we just get along. :(
Apr 15, 2020 3:56 PM
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564137
I thought you were referring to the worship of lolis in military uniforms and swastikas
Apr 15, 2020 6:06 PM

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Peaceful_Critic said:
@Zeroflamez
T.V yes can reinforce bad ideas but so can many other things including personal experiences and growing up in an environment around people that share those same beliefs.

And my goal is to discourage everything that reinforces bad ideas. I want to hold news and people accountable for the things they spread. This includes TV shows as they shouldn't be playing a part in it.

If a person is agreeing and believing that a racist depiction of a group of people is indeed the truth, then that person likely already had that seed of belief in their mind before even watching whatever it is that was reinforcing that thought process. Better portrayal of people on television will not fix that.

Nor would getting rid of any other single element remove that racist belief, but getting rid of it in media would help a great deal regardless. As I showed you above it can very much influence people.

Positive experience with those people will fix that.

Not by itself, they could be under the belief that the person is an exception to the rule. There are sexist or racist people out there with a positive experience with a said sex or race, but still, adamantly hold on to those views.

I don't understand what you mean about stereotypes, do you not find them funny? or do you think they're bad? That's what I mean.

Stereotypes are common beliefs or depictions about a group of people(that's what I mean when I say them). I find them to be bad as I am one for judging people on an individual basis instead of shallow qualities such as skin color or sex.


If a person chooses to believe that the other person is an exception even after a positive experience they may not ever change. That's just how some people are. Accept it, don't associate with those people.. You can't change everybody. Stereotypes are mainly common beliefs and depictions because they have truth to them. It's not like people all of a sudden decided one day that Indian guys own convenience stores when in reality a lot of them do and it is common to see them doing such. That's the whole reason why stereotype jokes are funny because there is truth to it whether it is a majority truth or a minority truth. Now am I condoning people that do judge people based on stereotypes? of course not.


ZeroflamezApr 15, 2020 6:36 PM
Apr 15, 2020 6:08 PM

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petran79 said:
I thought you were referring to the worship of lolis in military uniforms and swastikas


Judging from the viewpoint they have presented in this thread, that's probably something they are into.
Apr 15, 2020 6:15 PM

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well i don't hate anyone not worth the effort
Apr 15, 2020 7:38 PM

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Toxicity is a component of humanity, expecting to get rid of it is unreasonable and any attempts to curb it hinge on freedom of speech. It is definitely better to come to terms with the fact that there are bad people and as opposed to trying to rectify them your time is better spent with those who care about you. The anime community is pretty big now and expecting none of us to be bad people is pretty unrealistic, hell one of us burnt down a Kyoto animation studio. As opposed to trying to discuss this as far as I am concerned you would be better off enjoying an anime or delving into the numerous and unique facets that make our hobby so much fun. Best of wishes, and I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Apr 15, 2020 8:00 PM

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snazzicle said:
I agree! I've encountered a lot anime fans/otakus/weebs who shit on other people's tastes for no reason. It's 100% okay to like a show even if there's no secret/deep meaning behind it. It doesn't mean you have to like what they like, just respect other people's opinions on things.

Another thing that isn't mentioned much is anime fans shitting on k-pop stans. I can't count how many times I've talked to someone online/irl about anime, and then as soon as I mention k-pop, they just act like I'm not a human being anymore? It's okay if you don't like BTS, Red Velvet, or any group in general, but I seriously can't understand why people can't be mature for 3 seconds and realize that not everyone likes what they like. Literally anime and k-pop are possibly the 2 most made fun of things in the universe, so why are we ganging up on each other? ●︿● Why can't we just get along. :(


Yes! It's amazing how such a simple idea of "respecting other people's opinions" can get so twisted on the internet. Do people have shit taste? Hell yeah. In fact, everyone who is not me probably has shit taste. But do I go out of my way to berate someone for their ratings? Do I try to gatekeep people? No, because everyone likes what they like. I'm sure there's people who'll think my taste in anime is trash.

As for the kpop thing, that sucks :/ People really hate kpop online since there are plenty of annoying fans...but I always wish they wouldn't generalize. People really can't control their prejudice. On a lighter note, I love both Red Velvet and BTS hehe :)


animeanimeanime


Apr 15, 2020 8:15 PM

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8303
The hate threads are the only discussions here that ever get any real traction and it's been getting worse and worse over the last few days. Considering that anime is for the most part, an upbeat, happy and positive form of entertainment, it's weird that it attracts so many angry people.

People just love to hate, I suppose.
epidemia78Apr 15, 2020 8:18 PM
Apr 15, 2020 8:42 PM

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Tell me what you think and I'll tell you who you are.
In a word: problematic
Apr 15, 2020 8:42 PM

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Woke Anime is getting created more and more every year, so cringy anime viewers is affecting the industry, somehow[/quote]could you give examples of woke anime in recent years. only increase I see is more cute girls doing cute things and isekai[/quote]

Carole and Tuesday and Star Align, there's probably more, but that's what comes out from the top of why head[/quote]

I'm confused, are you saying Carole and Tuesday and Stars Align, the anime itself is cringy or the targeted audience is cringy?
Apr 15, 2020 8:48 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:

Why are you in denial about the threat that feminism and SJW ideology poses to ecchi?

Just full stop right here.

There's a difference between acting like feminism/SJWs don't tend to lean towards toxic and eradicative mentalities and being unwilling to exploit the current situation to panicmonger about them. I'm blocked by enough feminists on this site - there's one who has acknowledged going out of their way to report hound me to try to get me banned - to know that I piss a good number of them off when I don't tolerate some of the shit they say.

But what this thread - this entire current discussion - is predicated on relative to ecchi has nothing to do with SJWs/wokeness. I'm not going to misattribute it as such. That's dishonest as shit and would only serve to fearmonger.

That's what this thread is doing, and that's what people trying to hijack the problems with the initial thread that led into this one are trying to do.

Ecchi and its fandom aren't puppets for political ideologues. I'm not going to be tolerant of people trying to use it as such. In the context of this thread, it has been the anti-SJWs doing that. So fuck all of you for trying to use people like me as a proxy to try to redirect the problem at hand onto your political enemies. It's fucking disgusting. Knock it off.

Apr 15, 2020 9:03 PM
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Zeroflamez said:

If a person chooses to believe that the other person is an exception even after a positive experience they may not ever change. That's just how some people are. Accept it, don't associate with those people.. You can't change everybody.
I mean if someone was racist/sexist in the first place, they would be hard to change the mind of. A single thing isn't going to do it likely. Not trying to change everybody, just pointing out a positive experience is unlikely to change them.

It's not like people all of a sudden decided one day that Indian guys own convenience stores when in reality a lot of them do and it is common to see them doing such. That's the whole reason why stereotype jokes are funny because there is truth to it whether it is a majority truth or a minority truth.
People tend to make stereotypes based on what they heard and personal experience. Nothing else, your average person isn't looking up statistics and spreading the stereotype based on that. That's not even close to what happens most of the time.
Stereotype jokes are based on perceived truths, not on sourced actual data. For example, there's a stereotype going around that a lot of homeless people are violent, but this is provably untrue by the data("At baseline, homeless status offenses were the most frequently reported charges and were the only type of crime for which charges were incurred more frequently in the homeless condition.")

Also, just to be sure what do you mean by minority truths?

Now am I condoning people that do judge people based on stereotypes? of course not.

Ehh, good I guess. I wasn't trying to imply you were. I said that because stereotypes can and often would lead people to judge others based on what groups they fit into and that kind of stuff wouldn't happen if we got rid of them.
removed-userApr 15, 2020 9:27 PM
Apr 15, 2020 9:51 PM

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Lmao, you fuckers ain't done yet? @Pullman already destroyed my point and shit bruh, apparently y'all have your own war here
People who uses MAL forums are mostly bug people, take their speech with a grain of salt.
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Apr 15, 2020 10:19 PM

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Peaceful_Critic said:
Zeroflamez said:

If a person chooses to believe that the other person is an exception even after a positive experience they may not ever change. That's just how some people are. Accept it, don't associate with those people.. You can't change everybody.
I mean if someone was racist/sexist in the first place, they would be hard to change the mind of. A single thing isn't going to do it likely. Not trying to change everybody, just pointing out a positive experience is unlikely to change them.

It's not like people all of a sudden decided one day that Indian guys own convenience stores when in reality a lot of them do and it is common to see them doing such. That's the whole reason why stereotype jokes are funny because there is truth to it whether it is a majority truth or a minority truth.
People tend to make stereotypes based on what they heard and personal experience. Nothing else, your average person isn't looking up statistics and spreading the stereotype based on that. That's not even close to what happens most of the time.
Stereotype jokes are based on perceived truths, not on sourced actual data. For example, there's a stereotype going around that a lot of homeless people are violent, but this is provably untrue by the data("At baseline, homeless status offenses were the most frequently reported charges and were the only type of crime for which charges were incurred more frequently in the homeless condition.")

Also, just to be sure what do you mean by minority truths?

Now am I condoning people that do judge people based on stereotypes? of course not.

Ehh, good I guess. I wasn't trying to imply you were. I said that because stereotypes can and often would lead people to judge others based on what groups they fit into and that kind of stuff wouldn't happen if we got rid of them.

What I mean by minority truth is stereotypes that can be and are true even if a majority of them don't. Do all indian people run convenience stores? No, do they run them though? yes they do. Are all Muslims terrorists? of course not. Are there still a bunch that are? Yes there is. Are a lot of Asians smart? Yes, are there dumb ones? of course. My point is these stereotypes didn't come out of thin air. They were very much based off of actual behaviors and actions that people of these certain groups sometimes and in some circumstances most times exhibit. Stopping these stereotypes from being represented through entertainment is not going to change to anything. The people of these groups still doing the stereotypical behavior are still going to keep doing it. It won't ever stop unless they stop doing it.
Apr 15, 2020 10:58 PM
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@Zeroflamez

What I mean by minority truth is stereotypes that can be and are true even if a majority of them don't.

By that logic, any stereotype can be true as they would always be a minority of a group having certain qualities. Americans are skinny because of some portion of the population is in the lower BMI range. This would go by as a minority truth despite failing completely as a generalization.

My point is these stereotypes didn't come out of thin air. They were very much based off of actual behaviors and actions that people of these certain groups sometimes and in some circumstances most times exhibit.

Aka you agree that it was based on that person's personal experiences and what they heard.

Stopping these stereotypes from being represented through entertainment is not going to change to anything. The people of these groups still doing the stereotypical behavior are still going to keep doing it. It won't ever stop unless they stop doing it.
Why not? Surely people who don't come into contact with a group are relying on how media portrays said group to form their perceptions about it. So that would be a big help there for those people.

The problem isn't that a group is so happening to do a behavior, it's how people link that behavior as a group thing. To stop that judgment, making it so people's actions weren't subconsciously linked to something that had nothing to do with the behavior would be more practical. If we, as humans, stopped associating things with a group, we wouldn't judge an individual on the basis of it. Now would that ever happen? Likely not since as you said people always would. But does that mean we should stop trying and let minstrel shows go on because discouraging it isn't going to stop every racist idea from spreading? No, of course not. As steps to get rid of racism is always positive and encouraging what is best would always be better than letting a bad thing survive through the virtue of not completely destroying something that would never be erased.
Apr 15, 2020 11:28 PM

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Manaban said:
Ryuk9428 said:

Why are you in denial about the threat that feminism and SJW ideology poses to ecchi?

Just full stop right here.

There's a difference between acting like feminism/SJWs don't tend to lean towards toxic and eradicative mentalities and being unwilling to exploit the current situation to panicmonger about them. I'm blocked by enough feminists on this site - there's one who has acknowledged going out of their way to report hound me to try to get me banned - to know that I piss a good number of them off when I don't tolerate some of the shit they say.

But what this thread - this entire current discussion - is predicated on relative to ecchi has nothing to do with SJWs/wokeness. I'm not going to misattribute it as such. That's dishonest as shit and would only serve to fearmonger.

That's what this thread is doing, and that's what people trying to hijack the problems with the initial thread that led into this one are trying to do.

Ecchi and its fandom aren't puppets for political ideologues. I'm not going to be tolerant of people trying to use it as such. In the context of this thread, it has been the anti-SJWs doing that. So fuck all of you for trying to use people like me as a proxy to try to redirect the problem at hand onto your political enemies. It's fucking disgusting. Knock it off.


If we are talking about the original thread, then yeah, those guys were non-ideologically motivated elitists.

You seem to think that people are "using the ecchi fandom against their political enemies." And its true that a lot of ecchi fans are apolitical people, but being an ecchi fan is not mutually exclusive with being an anti-SJW because SJWs do pose a major threat to ecchi. A lot of ecchi fans become anti-SJWs because of that threat. If SJWs were not going around trying to ban and control everything that doesn't cater to their ideology, I really wouldn't care about them anywhere near as much as I do. But I do feel a need to aggressively suppress the ideology because history has shown that if you let SJWism grow unapposed, they will try to swallow everything up.

People on MAL complain about how aggressive the anti-SJW crowd on here can be sometimes. But the fact is, we are that way because we've already seen so much of the stuff we loved destroyed by SJWs and we are determined to make sure anime does not become the next thing destroyed by them. SJW ideology is like the coronavirus, allow a few cases to spread unchecked and suddenly everything is infected. You gotta quarantine it early or else it will be too late.
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Apr 15, 2020 11:37 PM

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Ryuk9428 said:
=
You seem to think that people are "using the ecchi fandom against their political enemies." And its true that a lot of ecchi fans are apolitical people, but being an ecchi fan is not mutually exclusive with being an anti-SJW because SJWs do pose a major threat to ecchi.

I mean, I didn't say that it was? Anywhere?

Look at this thread. These people are talking about that toxicity towards us as being the work of SJWs whenever the thread they're citing isn't SJW at all. They're implanting that into the conversation when it's not relevant to try to use it to fearmonger about their enemies. They don't give a shit about what we're standing for, they just want to take it and make it a matter of SJW-versus-anti-SJW so they can throw their tantrum. In the context of the thread that spurred this one on, SJWs/"wokeness" is entirely irrelevant.

We shouldn't be some political movement's little bitch. Period. Being an ecchi fan and being an anti-SJW aren't mutually exclusive, sure, but they're fucking certainly not mutually inclusive. We do not belong to anti-SJWs. At all. We are not some fucking tool in their arsenal, and we never will be and we certainly shouldn't degrade ourselves to that point. We are a fucking fandom, and what defines us as a fandom sure as fucking hell isn't hating SJWs. It's liking ecchi.

If your issue isn't with pointing out that they're dishonestly representing why that thread was a problem for ecchi fans and refusing to let outsiders basically use us to fearmonger and further their political agenda, then you don't have an issue with anything I'm saying. Because that is the problem. We're not their scion, we shouldn't tolerate being used and exploited in that fashion.

Especially when, again, it's a dishonest representation of what transpired. Twisting the context into something entirely different that fits their own agenda is peak using and exploiting us to fearmonger about SJWs.

And, from their side, this happens all the time, they come to us, expecting us to fight their wars for them and trying to rile-up and instill fear in us to get us to do so. That shouldn't be tolerated.
ManabanApr 15, 2020 11:45 PM

Apr 16, 2020 12:42 AM
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This exist in any popular medium actually.

One thing to remember is, while we directly affect the shape of the anime that comes out, it's really stupid to actively hate on any part of the community because it's a very futile waste of energy.

Just enjoy what you want and leave the rest. You can hate something and express that sure, but it becomes toxic when you start to force your opinions on other people.
Apr 16, 2020 1:03 AM

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Ngl I'm not really sure that the "toxicity" OP is talking about is much of a problem, at least on MAL. Like, just taking this thread as a microcosm, it seems like there are more people in here vehemently denouncing those damn dirty SJWs trying to corrupt my Japanese cartoons more so than anyone giving a fuck about ecchi.

Maybe it's more of a thing on Twitter, but Twitter is such a large platform that any dumb group can seem much larger than what they actually are.
People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol
Apr 16, 2020 1:20 AM
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Toxicity in the anime community that no one talks about, huh? Why would you talk about something that is obvious already? We are tAxic that is why we no longer can rate reviews not helpful on MAL, we are tAxic that is why we will never get a feature to comment on reviews, etc.

And it is like that almost on every site like that. Maybe anime-planet is kinda less tAxic in that regard.
Apr 16, 2020 1:21 AM

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Toxicity appears in every aspect of the internet. You have toxicity in gaming, toxicity in kpop twitter fans. It’s the internet and people speak whatever they want behind anonymity. There’s nothing you can do to make it disappear.

Regarding the toxicity in the anime world, honestly just don’t be too serious about it and move on. There’s bad people everywhere.
Apr 16, 2020 1:33 AM

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What a beautiful mess, this thread ended up even more derailed than the one it was spurred from
Apr 16, 2020 1:56 AM

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aight

first of all, I love your username/pfp :o Shizuka-sensei <3

secondly, ehh, I'm aware that a lot of the people who say that sort of stuff don't really care about such things, they're just probably trashing on anime for fun just as most anime fans do, and not only anime fans, you'll see that kind of behaviour all over the internet. Just visit any gaming site, movie listing ones or music-related blogs, you'll see people like this everywhere. Of course, there's people who seriously mean this, but eh It's just the way the Internet is. Just try not to surround yourself with this kind of people.

Apr 16, 2020 1:59 AM

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Lmao I regret making this thread, can the mods lock this already?
People who uses MAL forums are mostly bug people, take their speech with a grain of salt.
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Apr 16, 2020 2:14 AM

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2shizukasensei88 said:
Lmao I regret making this thread, can the mods lock this already?
Have you tried reporting yourself? That usually gets their attention.
Apr 16, 2020 2:23 AM

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Tylaen said:
2shizukasensei88 said:
Lmao I regret making this thread, can the mods lock this already?
Have you tried reporting yourself? That usually gets their attention.


Will I get banned again if I do that??
People who uses MAL forums are mostly bug people, take their speech with a grain of salt.
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2静か先生88#7307
Apr 16, 2020 2:29 AM
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2shizukasensei88 said:
Tylaen said:
Have you tried reporting yourself? That usually gets their attention.


Will I get banned again if I do that??

Try saying 'I'm sorry, won't happen again'. :D
Apr 16, 2020 2:34 AM

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IbarakiDouji said:
2shizukasensei88 said:


Will I get banned again if I do that??

Try saying 'I'm sorry, won't happen again'. :D


Nah, I already got banned for the mildest things ever, I don't wanna risk it
People who uses MAL forums are mostly bug people, take their speech with a grain of salt.
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2静か先生88#7307
Apr 16, 2020 2:50 AM

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2shizukasensei88 said:
IbarakiDouji said:

Try saying 'I'm sorry, won't happen again'. :D


Nah, I already got banned for the mildest things ever, I don't wanna risk it

But have you gotten banned for reccing Golden Kamuy to vegans yet
ManabanApr 16, 2020 3:18 AM

Apr 16, 2020 3:15 AM
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I would say that anime community isn't really all that toxic at least not compare to video gaming community.
While there are vocal minority of moral authoritarians that demand anime to adhere to their moral principles/political ideology, thankfully they have no power over anime industry and are best ignored.
Apr 16, 2020 4:41 AM

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2shizukasensei88 said:
who shits on Sao constantly


this is where I can't agree with you. Clearly there's nothing more unlikeable and infuriating than circlejerk. Bunch of inter-masturbators sucking each other's dicks for a shred of so-called coolness and nonexistent standards. Until this very day people take this stupid meme seriously. I can't imagine.
. . .
Apr 16, 2020 7:46 AM

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Thread locked because it violates rule 5. of Anime Discussion board:
Please refrain from posting thread topics which extend beyond the discussion of anime/manga as an entertainment medium to highly-debated social and/or moral issues. This includes but is not limited to: pedophilia, gender/racial equality, sexual orientation, etc.







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