Ergo Proxy Episode 21 Discussion

Harima_Ray said:
I have questions
/if you think im dumb and this is annoying you dont have to answer/
when did the Proxy One make an appearance first? i dont even know who he is
and when did ergo/ vincent "kill" Monad? was it when he attacked Rel?
WHO was she anyway?

its pretty confusing but i really really like this anime so im trying to understand

sspit said:


Exactly.
Reacting to previous comments, i dont think Raul went insane or wants to destroy everything. He wants to break the dependency no matter what cost.

Here are my attempts to clear out the story:
- Vincent (Ergo Proxy) is Romdo's creator (Regent calls him as such)
- Womb System wasnt working because Creator was not around.
- Raul wanted to change humans so they wouldnt need proxy. = ADW project.
- ADW project was failure. 90% mortality rate. (Im guessing the insane bureaucrat was showing unhealthy symptoms of this)
- Daedalus knew it would be failure, still went ahead wit the project (in my opinion he didnt give it much of an effort)
- Raul fired the Rupture because he couldnt stand that 'they were defeated' (says Daedalus, kill me if you want im still clueless)
- Raul didnt try to kill Re-L, it was Regent (in earlier episodes, Raul already revealed that fact but not directy, now Daedalus tells Re-L)
- the white Re-L appears to like(love) Vincento, my guess is she is Monado who Daedalus transferred from her old body (or cloned or whatever).

Vincent/Ergo/Creator came back to Romdo 3 times:
- as an immigrant from Mosk
- once when he stole Monado from Mosk
- now from the journey

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Daedalus:
- its also clear Daedalus knew the whole story about Monado. Already in ep11 he says that he doesnt need Re-L to be with him, all he needs is her existence. Back then it was ambiguous, but he was also conducting some kind of an experiment. If you remember he needed power for something so he was taking it from Romdo in short intervals that he times to his ID in amount of seconds to post a message to Raul. What he needed was Rauls authority to get him reinstated and cover his back so he can focus on what he needs to do.
He also said that nobody except for him (and Re-L) knew there were two proxies. Mentioned even before as Daedalus and Re-L's shared secret. One was Ergo while the second one was Monado who he was hiding. He planned to clone her the whole time.

That brings me to the idea, that he never liked/loved Re-L to begin with. He had feelings (or his analogy of feelings) for Monado and Re-L we know was already a clone of her. The connection between Monad and Re-L is too clear as it has been pointed out. Monad+Ergo, Re-L+Vincento.

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Another interesting fact:
During the scene, where Vincent is killing Re-L's grandfather, for some reason, his emotional state rapidly changes.
- he begins with a laughter full of lust like "ill finally get you"
- suddenly he shows uncertainty over his actions
- then he look saddened and dreamy, like he is suddenly contemplating about what he is doing, while showing disgust like he has no other choice
- then he shows determination over his choice (which is not clear) but he looks like it is not really his intention
and finally, he looks terribly sad like he realized he is powerless and is regretting the whole thing
- then he throws the old man away (looks like he is dead)

There is still the possibility that it wasnt Vincent but Proxy One. Who knows how many times did we confuse the two. In fact the description of Proxy One as 'crying a lot' makes me think that... it was plenty times...

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Id like to point out a little parallel between autoreivs and humans. Humans are dependent on Proxies. Without Proxies humans are clueless and lose their raison d'être. The same relationship exists between humans and autoreivs.

Ive got a feeling there is also parallel between the Cogito and Creator's pain.
Autoreiv infected by Cofigo virus gains soul and dependency and starts to seek his reason to live. It breaks his dependency on his human master.
People use autoreivs and are overly dependent on them. This dependance is dangerous and unnecessary as the Hitler guy explains in this episode. Thus widespread outbreak of Cogito wreaks havoc in society where autoreivs mean so much importance.

Comparing this to the ep19, the creator was complaining that his story doesnt turn out as he wants because the roles he assignes are played differently by characters that act on theor own. Do you see the similarity with Cogito?

The same could be said about Proxies in general. They create, give their all to their creation - in fact they give too much. Their creation acts on their own and they are saddened and no longer want to look at their failed product so they leave.

Elfster said:
So... Adolescent humankind feels unloved, gets all philosophical and decides to commit suicide, because... stuff. Proxies feel lonely, have middle age crisis and hate their dumb kids a little. Or a lot. Lovehate them. Meanwhile Hitler cleanses Romdo from robots. Because clearly they are the source of all evil.

wtf did I just watch?

malonur said:
Obviously your mental capacity is not enough to understand this show. Maybe you should watch something like Naruto perhaps?