New
Do you want Feminism in your Anime?
Yes, politics infesting entertainment is a good thing
18.8%
171
No, the Author's vision should be respected
81.2%
740
911 votes
Sep 18, 2017 10:19 PM
#301
Him and the other MRAs in this thread it seems To be honest the west is much fairer in terms of equality, but Japan itself is still very obsessed with "traditional gender role" reinforcement that the women does domestics and the like, although there are more career women- women who are or older than their mid to late twenties and unmarried are still claimed by Japanese society as "undesirable" because they don't choose a more "traditional" path. |
Sep 18, 2017 10:30 PM
#302
thewiru said: "It doesn't matter if they are people like us (which they aren't). What matters is, only violence in some form can bring about positive change." It didn't work out several times, but it will this time, right? Giving the state more power to violate you is one of the most backfireable things you can do. It worked every fucking time. hazerddex said: @flannan if your looking for a series with a strong female cast try the Official touhou mangas i can send the manga's and novels Cronolology over if you want no i'm not trying to assimilate people into touhouism and you can't prove it I have no problems finding series with a strong female cast. And I am quite familiar with Touhou franchise, even if I did not read the official mangas. |
Sep 18, 2017 10:50 PM
#303
Kuma said: flannan said: Kuma said: Taifood said: There's tons of feminism in anime, but it's done horribly. This is because anime always tries to fit into a male empowerment and self insert fantasy. He's the hero. It'd be blasphemous to have more than one character that doesn't look like a chump, especially a girl. To compensate, the girls are given power over the dude almost like a gag. Not romantically. I mean physically and socially. Women being able to beat male MC into the air Women being able to kick the shonen protag's ass even though they're basically a god Women berating the man in any way possible even though they'd be completely fucked without him. Constantly calling him an idiot/loser/whatever even though most people wouldn't have a surviving friendship Etc, etc, etc This shit is just a symptom of garbage writing. The only remedy to this problem is to drop the narrative-fantasy bullshit and write a good story. This might sound counter intuitive, but I believe Asuna in SAO did this aspect pretty well (don't get me wrong though, almost the entirety of SAO is still terrible). pretty sure you will find them mostly in male targetted series so it was an male fetish rather than feminism it self... have you ever tried shoujo? it's definitely not something like that... And in shoujo anime, male characters are kind of like this too. ehh... depend, it has really wide range... some female like to get dominated, some like defeating a man, some like sadist kind of man, but definitely not a weak (literaly) man... even infamouse skip beat that all of story about strong female want to beat his ravange and technicaly really hostile is "meak" when facing tsuruga ren... There is a wide range of female characters in male-oriented anime too - tsundere, yandere, genki, shy, demigods and vulnerable kids... That's actually a major strong point of anime compared to western stuff. |
Sep 18, 2017 11:58 PM
#304
flannan said: Kuma said: flannan said: Kuma said: Taifood said: There's tons of feminism in anime, but it's done horribly. This is because anime always tries to fit into a male empowerment and self insert fantasy. He's the hero. It'd be blasphemous to have more than one character that doesn't look like a chump, especially a girl. To compensate, the girls are given power over the dude almost like a gag. Not romantically. I mean physically and socially. Women being able to beat male MC into the air Women being able to kick the shonen protag's ass even though they're basically a god Women berating the man in any way possible even though they'd be completely fucked without him. Constantly calling him an idiot/loser/whatever even though most people wouldn't have a surviving friendship Etc, etc, etc This shit is just a symptom of garbage writing. The only remedy to this problem is to drop the narrative-fantasy bullshit and write a good story. This might sound counter intuitive, but I believe Asuna in SAO did this aspect pretty well (don't get me wrong though, almost the entirety of SAO is still terrible). pretty sure you will find them mostly in male targetted series so it was an male fetish rather than feminism it self... have you ever tried shoujo? it's definitely not something like that... And in shoujo anime, male characters are kind of like this too. ehh... depend, it has really wide range... some female like to get dominated, some like defeating a man, some like sadist kind of man, but definitely not a weak (literaly) man... even infamouse skip beat that all of story about strong female want to beat his ravange and technicaly really hostile is "meak" when facing tsuruga ren... There is a wide range of female characters in male-oriented anime too - tsundere, yandere, genki, shy, demigods and vulnerable kids... That's actually a major strong point of anime compared to western stuff. exactly... what those guys crying about is already there since long time... what make it amazing is that it was diverse... extream view from both case that want to exterminated the others is what cancerious... |
Sep 19, 2017 12:23 AM
#305
What if the author's vision is political? |
The anime community in a nutshell. |
Sep 19, 2017 12:47 AM
#306
15poundfish said: zodd0 said: Yeah but the core foundation of feminism is the same. Its a female supremacy movement that pushes for increased rights and benefits of women without the responsibilities. Feminists protested the right to vote until women could avoid the draft. Modern feminism is similar to communism in that it is based on core parts of critical theory in where reason and logic are denied and replaced with a subjective dogma that is toxic and dangerous. Communism denied science that disagreed with their ideology as being capitalist propaganda, similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Strong female characters are not feminist, a feminist anime would have to embody the ideology it represents. The anime that do have feminist references are almost always seen as something not praise worthy but a negative flaw in the person or society. Armitage III is a cyberpunk that shows the results of a feminist dystopia where many men leave earth feminism society and begin dominating and oppressing self-aware gynoids on mars. Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. There is nothing that screams feminist about a girl doing traditional female jobs in japan. In Nausicaä, the theme is about environmentalism that centers around a princess that studies insects and plants.You are clearly extremely ignorant about feminism. It's not really a single ideology first of all, it's a collection of movements and ideologies. Just one Google search away, bruh. People have already mentioned several times as an example here that Studio Ghibli is one of the most feministic film studios in the world, and yet you claim there is no feminism in anime. This goes to show that you are clueless about either feminism or anime, or both. Lets go through this one by one: Yeah but the core foundation of feminism is the same. The core of feminism is a rights movement fighting for equal rights based on gender. How those rights will be achieved will differ between every group of feminists. Some believe that women should be equal in every way to a man and that is it by law. And some believe in tackling social things. Some believe in sepratism. An important thing to note is: These viewpoints are sometimes vehemently opposed to each other and do not think the other will bring freedom. Its a female supremacy movement that pushes for increased rights and benefits of women without the responsibilities. Feminists protested the right to vote until women could avoid the draft. Modern feminism is similar to communism in that it is based on core parts of critical theory in where reason and logic are denied and replaced with a subjective dogma that is toxic and dangerous. Communism denied science that disagreed with their ideology as being capitalist propaganda, similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Well this isn't true. Across the board. Rad Fems, Marxist fems, and Cultural fems were all mixed up in these statements. But you completely ignored Liberal feminists, Sex Positive feminists, Eco feminism. I mean I guess you could say you were talking about radical lesbian feminist separatists but they are a pretty small group. Strong female characters are not feminist, a feminist anime would have to embody the ideology it represents. The anime that do have feminist references are almost always seen as something not praise worthy but a negative flaw in the person or society. Armitage III is a cyberpunk that shows the results of a feminist dystopia where many men leave earth feminism society and begin dominating and oppressing self-aware gynoids on mars. Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. There is nothing that screams feminist about a girl doing traditional female jobs in japan. In Nausicaä, the theme is about environmentalism that centers around a princess that studies insects and plants. Don't get offended when someone calls a movie "feminist". It just means it would "appeal to a feminist demographic". Eco feminists would disagree. Because well, the entire movement is about nature and stuff. Even if it wasn't written that way, it writes his main character very well. As well as the harms of radiation to the planet which is what that movement was all about. And it was a movement of the 80's... and it is an 80's movie. lol. Then you have works like Revolutionary Girl Utena which I feel is all about defeating the patriarchy. Very much follows a rad feminist path. There are anime like Chu Bra which promote messages Sex Positive feminists would. And since it is an Ecchi written by a woman, you can't really say I am too wrong on that. The feminists movements are all very different from each other. I would say Liberal feminism is much more based in the "real world issues". Like getting women the right to vote and really basic stuff like that. And they typically see themselves in a much more global way than the average feminist. There are Sex Positive feminists which... I would say there are two competing factions here. I would say the one I am apart of is the one Betty Dodson is in. Which is the one that popularized the use of dildos and is much more focused on helping women to be real world sexually happy. It is also about removing shame of wearing sexy panties, wearing the correct size bra or not wearing a bra, going topless. But there is a wingnut section of course that does slut marches which ironically enough were started by a man who..... used his position of power to sleep with lots and lots of his students. The same guy also wrote all those articles demonizing barbie and Disney princesses and women stupidly agreed with him. I don't even know how that could be called sex positive though, but some people call themselves that yet get pissed off about characters being a too smallsize...and in general most of this actually fits in to the RADICAL feminist agenda. I mean sure, some sex positive feminists might go out there and fight for toplessness and bralessness and even say "stop slutshaming" or something like that... but we wouldn't be like both "stop slutshaming" and "omg disney princesses shouldn't even exist". But what is more funny is that this was all done by a MAN who just wanted to get laid. lol. I mean I understand the slut marches in theory I guess... but they really didn't DO anything did they? You know what my group of sex positive feminists did? (at a college) Held a Female Orgasm event where we taught women about female orgasms and gave away sex toys. Handed out information about vaginas... and sex in general. Many women don't even know about their own ovulation cycle. Shocker. Which brings me to my final bit. I don't even know what to call Tumblr feminists other than Tumblr feminists because they are so wishywashy in what they believe and seem to get upset over everything and don't seem to be actually fighting for anything other than their own self victimization. <--- Which I am not for. Cultural feminists, Radical Feminists, and Lesbian Separatists are all people I really don't get along with IRL. I mean that is the thing... when you start talking about feminism, you gotta know what feminism you are even talking about. Simplified: Radical feminsts: Getting rights by way of culture. Rad fems seek female LIBERATION not just equality. Sex positive feminists: Getting rights by way of control over our own bodies. (usually in a very science based way) Liberal Feminists: Legal rights. Cultural Feminists: Revisionist history, Religious feminists. Seek LIBERATION not just equality. Marxist Feminists/Socialist Feminists: Get rights by way of socialism or communism. Honestly very different than where it started as it is way more socialist than communist now. |
Energetic-NovaSep 19, 2017 12:57 AM
The anime community in a nutshell. |
Sep 19, 2017 12:54 AM
#307
@LoneWolf That is a clusterfuck of quoting... Your reply was rather long, so it's not that strange.It's more the "teaching men not to rape" sentiment that I had a problem with. I'll admit I made some inferring based on what hes said in the past. But more or less the message he seemed to be trying to send is that men are "sexist pigs" and need to be taught "not to rape". And I didn't think the message he was trying to send was "men are sexist pigs who need to be taught not to rape", so like I said, point it out to me where and how in his post he was implying that.There is a disparity between amount of reported rapes and the actual occurrence of rape in every country. I don't believe Japan is special in this regard. Then we don't have any disagreements thereA lazy solution would be not giving a fuck and not investing money into women-only cars. Not only just money, but time and efficiently. Also I don't think you realize how packed these train cars are during rush hours. Here is the Parisian metro during rush hours:It is lazy because it sweeps the problem under the rug. It's not the problem that gets away from women, it's women that are forced to get away from the problem. For example, much like in Cologne, many women were sexually assaulted in the city of Kalmar on New Years Eve 2015. Last year, the number dipped to almost zero or even zero (I don't remember). But was it because the molesters had disappeared? No, it's because a lot of women chose to stay at home instead of going out. That does in no way mean that the problem has disappeared. Meanwhile, in Cologne, around 2000 cops were deployed and detained hundreds of suspect individuals, and as a result, the number of cases of sexual assault went significantly down. That's why Japan shouldn't primarily focus on building this or that many women only subway cars, Japan should focus on things like sex ed (which is virtually non existent in Japan) and teaching girls to defend themselves or at least get help. Cracking down on perverts is how you reduce the amount of perverts. Now, I do actually think that the Japanese have started to care a little bit more about combatting sexual assault, however, they still need to go way beyond "uuuh let's just give the womynz man free cars, problem solved". French men who grope certainly exist, but they don't have the sort of opportunities that the men in Japan do. I never argued that molestation is not a problem. I was arguing about the reason why it happens and also the fact that the numbers of these cases could be inflated due to false accusations, considering in many circumstances its a "he said" "she said" situation. And that is also bad, what you're missing is that if efforts were actually made to combat train gropings, then the amount of false accusations and need for anti groping accusation insurances would be reduced as well.Perhaps I was misunderstanding your stance. You're free to criticize other cultures, but that doesn't mean they need to or should change. They also are not necessarily going to change in the way you want. There are certainly cultures I disagree with as well, but I honestly don't care that much unless I am personally affected. Often times with laws though when a certain case sets a precedent, other countries can soon follow. Also its just kind of fun to follow world politics, but anti-islamic sentiment in particular seems a bit zealous to me. There are also different ways to spread culture like how the UN does it. In many ways those are "forced" as well, but because they are seen as "good changes" they are not always pushed against. Sure, a country is free to choose to change or not change in accordance with or not in accordance with my wishes, and I am just as free to judge them based on their actions. |
Comic_SansSep 19, 2017 12:36 PM
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Sep 19, 2017 1:47 AM
#308
Sep 19, 2017 2:21 AM
#309
Rotton-Girl said: The core of feminism is a rights movement fighting for equal rights based on gender. How those rights will be achieved will differ between every group of feminists. Some believe that women should be equal in every way to a man and that is it by law. And some believe in tackling social things. Some believe in sepratism. An important thing to note is: These viewpoints are sometimes vehemently opposed to each other and do not think the other will bring freedom. Women already have more rights than men in western countries in regards to reproduction rights and less responsibilities like selective service. If they are fighting for equal rights they are really terrible at it especially after they fought with conservatives to protest the equal rights amendment. What are western feminists fighting for when they are the most privileged class in their countries? Even in social categories, men have more difficult time than women because their gender roles have not changed. Rotton-Girl said: Well this isn't true. Across the board. Rad Fems, Marxist fems, and Cultural fems were all mixed up in these statements. But you completely ignored Liberal feminists, Sex Positive feminists, Eco feminism. I mean I guess you could say you were talking about radical lesbian feminist separatists but they are a pretty small group. The people that have the power are who matters the most in a group. Nobody cares about a hipster communist at a college campus, they care about the danger of communism like the soviet union. Prominent feminists have campaigned and successfully increased the amount of inequality between genders. Rotton-Girl said: Don't get offended when someone calls a movie "feminist". It just means it would "appeal to a feminist demographic". Sorry, but it doesn't mean its feminist. Its like saying toaru majutsu no index is a christian themed anime because the opposing side are christian named sects. Rotton-Girl said: Eco feminists would disagree. Because well, the entire movement is about nature and stuff. Even if it wasn't written that way, it writes his main character very well. As well as the harms of radiation to the planet which is what that movement was all about. And it was a movement of the 80's... and it is an 80's movie. lol. Eco feminism is just applying the traditional views of patriarchy theory to the environment. We don't see the exploration of the social injustices of men, women and nature in that movie. Rotton-Girl said: Then you have works like Revolutionary Girl Utena which I feel is all about defeating the patriarchy. Very much follows a rad feminist path. Utena is about nobility tropes and fairy tale tropes, not feminist. Rotton-Girl said: There are anime like Chu Bra which promote messages Sex Positive feminists would. And since it is an Ecchi written by a woman, you can't really say I am too wrong on that. an ecchi about puberty is not amazing or feminist. Rotton-Girl said: There are Sex Positive feminists which... I would say there are two competing factions here. I would say the one I am apart of is the one Betty Dodson is in. Which is the one that popularized the use of dildos and is much more focused on helping women to be real world sexually happy. It is also about removing shame of wearing sexy panties, wearing the correct size bra or not wearing a bra, going topless. Umm, women have not been shamed about their sex drive since like the 60s. Men are shamed for owning sex toys, women are not in most social circles. Rotton-Girl said: I mean I understand the slut marches in theory I guess... but they really didn't DO anything did they? You know what my group of sex positive feminists did? (at a college) Held a Female Orgasm event where we taught women about female orgasms and gave away sex toys. Handed out information about vaginas... and sex in general. Many women don't even know about their own ovulation cycle. Shocker. I don't see how this has to do with feminism but more to do with some schools bad approach to sex education. In most schools you learn about puberty in 3rd- 5th grade and take a more in depth "health" class in high school. Notice though, sex positive feminists don't campaign for the equality of the promotion of sex for both genders. Men are burdened by women's choice to have a baby, they have no power or say over what a women does in regards to reproduction. She can hoist the 18 year burden of raising a child on her own whims, or abandon it without repercussions while the man has no choice but pay up or go to prison. |
Sep 19, 2017 3:09 AM
#310
15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. |
Zoldra0Sep 19, 2017 3:18 AM
Sep 19, 2017 3:16 AM
#311
@Lonewolf pffffrtrt I don't particularly want to have a discussion with a nutjob who jumps on me to misread my post and insult me tbh. Maybe I can't elaborate as good as @Comic_Sans, maybe I can. I don't see how it would change anything, she understood my first post perfectly because she's actually reading instead of putting the words she wants in my mouth. 15poundfish said: Rotton-Girl said: Then you have works like Revolutionary Girl Utena which I feel is all about defeating the patriarchy. Very much follows a rad feminist path. Utena is about nobility tropes and fairy tale tropes, not feminist. While I don't totally agree with Rotton-girl's statement (Utena really doesn't say much about society, unlike the very similar in my eyes KlK), the ability for women to live on their own like guys is something feminism always advocated for, and the anti-thesis of the charming prince dream society is selling them since birth. So yeah, Utena is about hammering the charming prince trope to death... and that's what make it feminist. Compare Utena and Eureka Seven for example. |
DeathkoSep 19, 2017 3:23 AM
Sep 19, 2017 7:36 AM
#312
Darek said: Bourmegar said: No issue with it, if the author wants it to be there, so be it. I guess my stand ends there when it comes to politics being a part of media of any form. I mean politics where part of art since the dawn of time.So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... |
Sep 19, 2017 8:30 AM
#313
Rotton-Girl said: 15poundfish said: zodd0 said: You are clearly extremely ignorant about feminism. It's not really a single ideology first of all, it's a collection of movements and ideologies. Just one Google search away, bruh. People have already mentioned several times as an example here that Studio Ghibli is one of the most feministic film studios in the world, and yet you claim there is no feminism in anime. This goes to show that you are clueless about either feminism or anime, or both. Lets go through this one by one: Yeah but the core foundation of feminism is the same. The core of feminism is a rights movement fighting for equal rights based on gender. How those rights will be achieved will differ between every group of feminists. Some believe that women should be equal in every way to a man and that is it by law. And some believe in tackling social things. Some believe in sepratism. An important thing to note is: These viewpoints are sometimes vehemently opposed to each other and do not think the other will bring freedom. Its a female supremacy movement that pushes for increased rights and benefits of women without the responsibilities. Feminists protested the right to vote until women could avoid the draft. Modern feminism is similar to communism in that it is based on core parts of critical theory in where reason and logic are denied and replaced with a subjective dogma that is toxic and dangerous. Communism denied science that disagreed with their ideology as being capitalist propaganda, similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Well this isn't true. Across the board. Rad Fems, Marxist fems, and Cultural fems were all mixed up in these statements. But you completely ignored Liberal feminists, Sex Positive feminists, Eco feminism. I mean I guess you could say you were talking about radical lesbian feminist separatists but they are a pretty small group. Strong female characters are not feminist, a feminist anime would have to embody the ideology it represents. The anime that do have feminist references are almost always seen as something not praise worthy but a negative flaw in the person or society. Armitage III is a cyberpunk that shows the results of a feminist dystopia where many men leave earth feminism society and begin dominating and oppressing self-aware gynoids on mars. Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. There is nothing that screams feminist about a girl doing traditional female jobs in japan. In Nausicaä, the theme is about environmentalism that centers around a princess that studies insects and plants. Don't get offended when someone calls a movie "feminist". It just means it would "appeal to a feminist demographic". Eco feminists would disagree. Because well, the entire movement is about nature and stuff. Even if it wasn't written that way, it writes his main character very well. As well as the harms of radiation to the planet which is what that movement was all about. And it was a movement of the 80's... and it is an 80's movie. lol. Then you have works like Revolutionary Girl Utena which I feel is all about defeating the patriarchy. Very much follows a rad feminist path. There are anime like Chu Bra which promote messages Sex Positive feminists would. And since it is an Ecchi written by a woman, you can't really say I am too wrong on that. The feminists movements are all very different from each other. I would say Liberal feminism is much more based in the "real world issues". Like getting women the right to vote and really basic stuff like that. And they typically see themselves in a much more global way than the average feminist. There are Sex Positive feminists which... I would say there are two competing factions here. I would say the one I am apart of is the one Betty Dodson is in. Which is the one that popularized the use of dildos and is much more focused on helping women to be real world sexually happy. It is also about removing shame of wearing sexy panties, wearing the correct size bra or not wearing a bra, going topless. But there is a wingnut section of course that does slut marches which ironically enough were started by a man who..... used his position of power to sleep with lots and lots of his students. The same guy also wrote all those articles demonizing barbie and Disney princesses and women stupidly agreed with him. I don't even know how that could be called sex positive though, but some people call themselves that yet get pissed off about characters being a too smallsize...and in general most of this actually fits in to the RADICAL feminist agenda. I mean sure, some sex positive feminists might go out there and fight for toplessness and bralessness and even say "stop slutshaming" or something like that... but we wouldn't be like both "stop slutshaming" and "omg disney princesses shouldn't even exist". But what is more funny is that this was all done by a MAN who just wanted to get laid. lol. I mean I understand the slut marches in theory I guess... but they really didn't DO anything did they? You know what my group of sex positive feminists did? (at a college) Held a Female Orgasm event where we taught women about female orgasms and gave away sex toys. Handed out information about vaginas... and sex in general. Many women don't even know about their own ovulation cycle. Shocker. Which brings me to my final bit. I don't even know what to call Tumblr feminists other than Tumblr feminists because they are so wishywashy in what they believe and seem to get upset over everything and don't seem to be actually fighting for anything other than their own self victimization. <--- Which I am not for. Cultural feminists, Radical Feminists, and Lesbian Separatists are all people I really don't get along with IRL. I mean that is the thing... when you start talking about feminism, you gotta know what feminism you are even talking about. Simplified: Radical feminsts: Getting rights by way of culture. Rad fems seek female LIBERATION not just equality. Sex positive feminists: Getting rights by way of control over our own bodies. (usually in a very science based way) Liberal Feminists: Legal rights. Cultural Feminists: Revisionist history, Religious feminists. Seek LIBERATION not just equality. Marxist Feminists/Socialist Feminists: Get rights by way of socialism or communism. Honestly very different than where it started as it is way more socialist than communist now. Your whole post is evasive, thee old "Feminism is split into many groups, thus Feminism is not accountable". Feminism is represented by every group that bears its cause. Just because you think some, like radfems aren't legit, doesn't mean they don't represent Feminism. And who cares about radfems anyway, the Feminists who are sexist and discriminatory are those in Government, like those in the UN, Sweden/Scandinavian countries, Canada & Australia. It's modern Feminism that is toxic, not just radfeminism. Comic_Sans said: @LoneWolf That is a clusterfuck of quoting... Your reply was rather long, so it's not that strange.It's more the "teaching men not to rape" sentiment that I had a problem with. I'll admit I made some inferring based on what hes said in the past. But more or less the message he seemed to be trying to send is that men are "sexist pigs" and need to be taught "not to rape". And I didn't think the message he was trying to send was "men are sexist pigs who need to be taught not to rape", so like I said, point it out to me where and how in his post he was implying that.There is a disparity between amount of reported rapes and the actual occurrence of rape in every country. I don't believe Japan is special in this regard. Then we don't have any disagreements thereA lazy solution would be not giving a fuck and not investing money into women-only cars. Not only just money, but time and efficiently. Also I don't think you realize how packed these train cars are during rush hours. Here is the Parisian metro during rush hours:It is lazy because it sweeps the problem under the rug. It's not the problem that gets away from women, it's women that are forced to get away from the problem. For example, much like in Cologne, many women were sexually assaulted in the city of Kalmar on New Years Eve 2015. Last year, the number dipped to almost zero or even zero (I don't remember). But was it because the molesters had disappeared? No, it's because a lot of women chose to stay at home instead of going out. That does in no way mean that the problem has disappeared. Meanwhile, in Cologne, around 2000 cops were deployed and detained hundreds of suspect individuals, and as a result, the number of cases of sexual assault went significantly down. That's why Japan shouldn't primarily focus on building this or that many women only subway cars, Japan should focus on things like sex ed (which is virtually non existent in Japan) and teaching girls to defend themselves or at least get help. Cracking down on perverts is how you reduce the amount of perverts. Now, I do actually think that the Japanese have started to care a little bit more about combatting sexual assault, however, they still need to go way beyond "uuuh let's just give the womynz man free cars, problem solved". French men who grope certainly exist, but they don't have the sort of opportunities that the men in Japan do. I never argued that molestation is not a problem. I was arguing about the reason why it happens and also the fact that the numbers of these cases could be inflated due to false accusations, considering in many circumstances its a "he said" "she said" situation. And that is also bad, what you're missing is that if efforts were actually made to combat train gropings, then the amount of false accusations and need for anti groping accusation insurances would be reduced as well.Perhaps I was misunderstanding your stance. You're free to criticize other cultures, but that doesn't mean they need to or should change. They also are not necessarily going to change in the way you want. There are certainly cultures I disagree with as well, but I honestly don't care that much unless I am personally affected. Often times with laws though when a certain case sets a precedent, other countries can soon follow. Also its just kind of fun to follow world politics, but anti-islamic sentiment in particular seems a bit zealous to me. There are also different ways to spread culture like how the UN does it. In many ways those are "forced" as well, but because they are seen as "good changes" they are not always pushed against. Sure, a country is free to choose to change or not change in accordance with or not in accordance with my wishes, and I am just as free to judge them based on their actions.People really need to educate themselves on Japan's female trains, they just believe hear say, and use it in their arguments, Japan has Female only trains, not because the Gov't felt it was needed, but because Feminists pushed for female only trains after manipulating the issue of Japan's overcrowded subway into "there is a groping problem on trains". There is no problem, if there was was, it would be insignificant, considering Japan's low Rape statistics. The only thing that has to change in Japan, is it's Sexist and discriminatory female only trains, not it's education system, they don't need Western propaganda shovelled into it. |
Sep 19, 2017 9:02 AM
#314
zodd0 said: 15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. Did the guy just made a mindless, aimless generalization about the feminist movement? Oh my. Bourmegar said: Darek said: Bourmegar said: So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... Funny how many of the 'pro free speech' want to censor feminism, isn't it? |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Sep 19, 2017 9:07 AM
#315
@Nyu Yeah fam, I'm sure the Japanese police and Japanese rail work companies are full of angry radical feminists. I'm not even gonna comment on the second paragraph where you claim Japan is a sexist and discriminatory female only train instead of a country. |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Sep 19, 2017 9:18 AM
#316
TheBrainintheJar said: zodd0 said: 15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. Did the guy just made a mindless, aimless generalization about the feminist movement? Oh my. Bourmegar said: Darek said: Bourmegar said: No issue with it, if the author wants it to be there, so be it. I guess my stand ends there when it comes to politics being a part of media of any form. I mean politics where part of art since the dawn of time.So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... Funny how many of the 'pro free speech' want to censor feminism, isn't it? Wanting to censor the censorists isn't censorship. You're basically arguing that people should be "tolerant of racists". Your only arguments have ever been semantics. Comic_Sans said: @Nyu Yeah fam, I'm sure the Japanese police and Japanese rail work companies are full of angry radical feminists. I'm not even gonna comment on the second paragraph where you claim Japan is a sexist and discriminatory female only train instead of a country. Feminists don't lobby? That's what your asserting, that the only way Feminists can change things is by controlling the systems. That isn't true. Feminist changes happened by campaigning, not by controlling the government. |
Sep 19, 2017 9:30 AM
#317
@Nyu Okay, disprove my claims about molestation not being a problem in Japan and prove that it's 100 % radical feminist propaganda then. Go on, I'm waiting. |
Comic_SansSep 19, 2017 9:33 AM
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Sep 19, 2017 9:31 AM
#318
TheBrainintheJar said: zodd0 said: 15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. Did the guy just made a mindless, aimless generalization about the feminist movement? Oh my. Bourmegar said: Darek said: Bourmegar said: No issue with it, if the author wants it to be there, so be it. I guess my stand ends there when it comes to politics being a part of media of any form. I mean politics where part of art since the dawn of time.So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... Funny how many of the 'pro free speech' want to censor feminism, isn't it? yh it truly is, They truly know what free speech is..... they are like "hey I will use my free speech to take away yours!" |
Sep 19, 2017 9:36 AM
#319
I'm not super familiar with Japanese feminism but from what I know it's a lot different than what we see in the English-speaking world. Also a lot weaker because Japan is extremely traditionalist conservative. There's already a lot of anime that are supposed to be supportive of equality and women's rights. I know Tomino likes to put messages of equality in his Gundam shows, but you could hardly tell because they're still war stories about tough boys shooting each other. |
FMA:B OUTDATED noot KIMI NO NA WA OVERRATED noot LONG HAVE WE WAITED noot PINGU IN THE CITY WAS CREATED noot |
Sep 19, 2017 10:32 AM
#320
zodd0 said: Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. Yeah, our definitions don't change the harm feminists continue to inflict on society and hobbies. I am fine with conceding I don't know the "true feminist" but I could care less about them because they have no influence or power. zodd0 said: You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. Feminism is an ideology first and foremost. A dogmatic ideology can have many similarities with a cult or religion. The concept of male privilege and patriarchy theory is analogous to original sin or the invisible scapegoat in that blames a specific group of people for no reason other than being born. Feminism issues collective guilt on all men for the actions of a few bad man by their teaching men not to rape slogans or revises history to make it appear all men treated women like chattel in the modern western world. Feminism is an ideology, wanting empowered women in art is not inherently feminist in the same way true love is not christianity. One characteristic an ideology claims to espouse doesn't mean you subscribe to the ideology if you hold that same value. |
15poundfishSep 19, 2017 10:43 AM
Sep 19, 2017 10:41 AM
#321
If feminism is a cult, so are their MRA equivalents. So that about dismisses… at least 50-75% of the arguments in this thread. Welp. The extremist version of anything is never good, especially if it's fundamentally consistent of extremists from the get go (hi, neonazi fags). Hence why I think that radfems (which sadly comprise much of the third wave feminist demographic and originate from Dumblr), and MRAs (who are almost all whiny r/incel manchildren) are both retards. Then again isn't that the guy who tried to justify the alt right's existence? Euuuuugh. I think you all should just join the cult of personality that is the movement for Nasujima Takashi. Therein you basically worship a psychopathic monster. |
Sep 19, 2017 11:16 AM
#322
15poundfish said: Yeah, our definitions don't change the harm feminists continue to inflict on society and hobbies. I am fine with conceding I don't know the "true feminist" but I could care less about them because they have no influence or power. Even though you admit you don't know what feminism is you still insist on discussing it as if you know even more than people who actually do know. 15poundfish said: Feminism is an ideology first and foremost. A dogmatic ideology can have many similarities with a cult or religion. The concept of male privilege and patriarchy theory is analogous to original sin or the invisible scapegoat in that blames a specific group of people for no reason other than being born. Feminism issues collective guilt on all men for the actions of a few bad man by their teaching men not to rape slogans or revises history to make it appear all men treated women like chattel in the modern western world. No, I explained to you what feminism is and you even admitted you don't know what is is. Please, I've seen too much of this bullshit from male MAL-users. You are another uneducated conspiracy theorist who can't be taken seriously. 15poundfish said: Feminism is an ideology, wanting empowered women in art is not inherently feminist in the same way true love is not christianity. One characteristic an ideology claims to espouse doesn't mean you subscribe to the ideology if you hold that same value. Quit saying that feminism is this and that when you clearly are clueless and even somewhat admitted you are. Female empowerment is central to feminism, it actually is feminism per definition, and it is the main feminist theme in sources of entertainment, anime being one. Where the hell you get "true love" from I have no idea, but your comparasion is laughable and ridiculously unintelligent. Studio Ghibli has always had strong feministic themes and narratives in their movies. Their directors clearly have highly feministic ways of thinking. That you are denying this and even claim that there is no feminism in anime is a generalization that defies all logic and definitely in the top-5 stupidest things I've heard on MAL so far, and I've heard som really mindblowingly stupid shit here... |
Sep 19, 2017 12:41 PM
#323
zodd0 said: Even though you admit you don't know what feminism is you still insist on discussing it as if you know even more than people who actually do know. It was a joke about a certain fallacy feminists like to invoke. zodd0 said: No, I explained to you what feminism is and you even admitted you don't know what is is. Please, I've seen too much of this bullshit from male MAL-users. You are another uneducated conspiracy theorist who can't be taken seriously. Explained what? The thread is about the bad influence feminism has on anime not about semantics over definitions. If you don't know what patriarchy theory is you can't call yourself a informed feminist. Anime and third wave feminism have nothing in common unless you watch dubs from funimation or watch crunchyroll subs. zodd0 said: Quit saying that feminism is this and that when you clearly are clueless and even somewhat admitted you are. Female empowerment is central to feminism, it actually is feminism per definition, and it is the main feminist theme in sources of entertainment, anime being one. Where the hell you get "true love" from I have no idea, but your comparasion is laughable and ridiculously unintelligent. I was pointing out your faulty logic in reasoning where you think certain characteristics in anime must be feminist because of similarities. Your logic would be similar to this if you apply to anything. 1. Nazi's drink water 2. Person B drinks water 3. Person B therefore is a Nazi. Its similar to how a cult member will find these connections that don't exist by claiming a certain characteristic is part of the cult when either no connection is shown or the connection doesn't require the former. Female empowerment doesn't require feminism and to call any anime with a strong female protagonist feminist shows a extremely poor understanding of feminism. |
Sep 19, 2017 1:00 PM
#324
I think that's about feminists telling you what feminism is since you're obviously clueless. 15poundfish said: Explained what? The thread is about the bad influence feminism has on anime not about semantics over definitions. "Bad" is subjective. The thread is created by a neo-nazi who hates feminism. Feel free to think feministic influence is bad, but at least understand what feminism is first. 15poundfish said: If you don't know what patriarchy theory is you can't call yourself a informed feminist. Anime and third wave feminism have nothing in common unless you watch dubs from funimation or watch crunchyroll subs. You miss the point. I know what it is and I know anti-feminists deny the existence of the patriarchy. Female empowerment is feminism per definition. zodd0 said: I was pointing out your faulty logic in reasoning where you think certain characteristics in anime must be feminist because of similarities. Your logic would be similar to this if you apply to anything. 1. Nazi's drink water 2. Person B drinks water 3. Person B therefore is a Nazi. Your logic is this: 1. A movie glorifies Hitler and describes the Holocaust as a hoax that never happened. 2. The movie has nothing to do with nazism or antisemitism. zodd0 said: Its similar to how a cult member will find these connections that don't exist by claiming a certain characteristic is part of the cult when either no connection is shown or the connection doesn't require the former. Female empowerment doesn't require feminism and to call any anime with a strong female protagonist feminist shows a extremely poor understanding of feminism. Saying that female empowerment is not feminism is like saying racism towards Jews is not antisemitism. Unlike me and unlike Studio Ghibli themselves, you are clueless about feminism. To quote one of Ghiblis founders and main producers: "Miyazaki is a feminist. He also has this conviction that to be successful, companies have to make it possible for their female employees to succeed too. You can see this attitude in Princess Mononoke: all the characters working the bellows in the iron works are women. Then there's Porco Rosso: Porco's plane is rebuilt entirely by women." It's the third highly feministic quote from Ghibli I have now posted in this thread. |
Zoldra0Sep 19, 2017 1:04 PM
Sep 19, 2017 2:53 PM
#325
Nyu said: TheBrainintheJar said: zodd0 said: 15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. Did the guy just made a mindless, aimless generalization about the feminist movement? Oh my. Bourmegar said: Darek said: Bourmegar said: No issue with it, if the author wants it to be there, so be it. I guess my stand ends there when it comes to politics being a part of media of any form. I mean politics where part of art since the dawn of time.So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... Funny how many of the 'pro free speech' want to censor feminism, isn't it? Wanting to censor the censorists isn't censorship. You're basically arguing that people should be "tolerant of racists". Your only arguments have ever been semantics. Comic_Sans said: @Nyu Yeah fam, I'm sure the Japanese police and Japanese rail work companies are full of angry radical feminists. I'm not even gonna comment on the second paragraph where you claim Japan is a sexist and discriminatory female only train instead of a country. Feminists don't lobby? That's what your asserting, that the only way Feminists can change things is by controlling the systems. That isn't true. Feminist changes happened by campaigning, not by controlling the government. I don't see how saying bad things about video games is crying for censorship. Some criticism of feminism is valid, but that one never took hold of me. I never saw a 'censor this!' feminist. No, Anita doesn't count. She's a critic who doesn't ask for it. |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Sep 19, 2017 9:16 PM
#326
zodd0 said: You miss the point. I know what it is and I know anti-feminists deny the existence of the patriarchy. Female empowerment is feminism per definition. No, but hijacking definitions and redefining words doesn't make it feminist. zodd0 said: So its hearsay from a co-worker, also even if miyazaki was a feminist none of his works are feminist. People just like to call his works feminist because he has female protagonists that are generally good characters. Only Yesterday, which is probably one of the best ghibli film's with a female protagonist is like the opposite of what feminists would want.To quote one of Ghiblis founders and main producers: "Miyazaki is a feminist. He also has this conviction that to be successful, companies have to make it possible for their female employees to succeed too. You can see this attitude in Princess Mononoke: all the characters working the bellows in the iron works are women. Then there's Porco Rosso: Porco's plane is rebuilt entirely by women." It's the third highly feministic quote from Ghibli I have now posted in this thread. |
Sep 20, 2017 2:50 AM
#327
15poundfish said: No, but hijacking definitions and redefining words doesn't make it feminist. You still don't understand what feminism is. 15poundfish said: So its hearsay from a co-worker, also even if miyazaki was a feminist none of his works are feminist. People just like to call his works feminist because he has female protagonists that are generally good characters. Only Yesterday, which is probably one of the best ghibli film's with a female protagonist is like the opposite of what feminists would want. No, it's a statement from one of Miyazakis closest friends, one of Ghiblis main co-founders and most successful producers. Once again; Ghiblis works are feminist because they are filled with feminist themes, messages and narratives. They are made by feminists who want to empower females in movies, as well as empower the female audience who are watching them. As I mentioned in the thread already Only Yesterday was in fact so feminist that it wasn't originally distributed in the west, with Ghibli refusing to let Disney cut away references to menstruation. Ghibli has always been many miles ahead of Disney when it comes to feminism. You are completely clueless once again. |
Sep 20, 2017 5:01 AM
#328
zodd0 said: Did you watch Only yesterday? I doubt you have because its not a feminism movie.15poundfish said: No, but hijacking definitions and redefining words doesn't make it feminist. You still don't understand what feminism is. 15poundfish said: So its hearsay from a co-worker, also even if miyazaki was a feminist none of his works are feminist. People just like to call his works feminist because he has female protagonists that are generally good characters. Only Yesterday, which is probably one of the best ghibli film's with a female protagonist is like the opposite of what feminists would want. No, it's a statement from one of Miyazakis closest friends, one of Ghiblis main co-founders and most successful producers. Once again; Ghiblis works are feminist because they are filled with feminist themes, messages and narratives. They are made by feminists who want to empower females in movies, as well as empower the female audience who are watching them. As I mentioned in the thread already Only Yesterday was in fact so feminist that it wasn't originally distributed in the west, with Ghibli refusing to let Disney cut away references to menstruation. Ghibli has always been many miles ahead of Disney when it comes to feminism. You are completely clueless once again. |
Sep 20, 2017 5:19 AM
#329
15poundfish said: Did you watch Only yesterday? I doubt you have because its not a feminism movie. You should realize by now you have no idea what feminism is, so you don't exactly qualify for stating what's feminism and what's not. I've destroyed your arguments in every post so far, yet you still wanna attempt to hang in there with a sentence or two. lol |
Sep 20, 2017 5:31 AM
#330
15poundfish said: Did you watch Only yesterday? I doubt you have because its not a feminism movie. This can't be left as a blanket statement. Explain. |
Sep 20, 2017 6:46 AM
#331
jal90 said: 15poundfish said: Did you watch Only yesterday? I doubt you have because its not a feminism movie. This can't be left as a blanket statement. Explain. Only Yesterday centers around Taeko's nostalgia for the country life because her farming holiday brings back old memories. The first major conflict in the film is that she is unmarried and is being bothered by her mother with proposals. She shoots off her mother's proposal and goes to her grandma's to work on the farm. She is picked up by Toshio and throughout the 10 day vacation they talk with one another about farming, childhood, etc. Near the climax of the film, her grandma suggests marrying Toshio and she leaves feeling guilt over whether the country life is right for her and whether Toshio is right for her. After talking with Toshio in the car in the rain she overcomes some guilt over her childhood "first love" and leaves on a bus in the morning. At the end of the film it implies she goes back to the country and starts a relationship with Toshio. None of this is feminist, Taeko's family in the film are socially conservative and she ended giving up her service career in the city to probably be a farmer's wife if we are going by the ending of the film. Many feminists view marriage as a oppressive transaction between a women and a man. Even if we ignore feminists differing views on marriage nothing in this film sounds feminist. |
15poundfishSep 20, 2017 6:50 AM
Sep 20, 2017 7:04 AM
#332
15poundfish said: jal90 said: 15poundfish said: Did you watch Only yesterday? I doubt you have because its not a feminism movie. This can't be left as a blanket statement. Explain. Only Yesterday centers around Taeko's nostalgia for the country life because her farming holiday brings back old memories. The first major conflict in the film is that she is unmarried and is being bothered by her mother with proposals. She shoots of her mother and goes to her grandma's to work on the farm. She is picked up by Toshio and throughout the 10 day vacation and talk with one another about farming and her childhood. Near the climax of the film, her grandma suggests marrying Toshio and she leaves feeling guilt over whether the country life is right for her and whether Toshio is right for her. After their talk in the rain she overcomes some guilt over her childhood "first love" and leaves on a bus. At the end of the film it implies she goes back to the country and starts a relationship with Toshio. None of this is feminist, Taeko's family in the film are socially conservative and she ended giving up her service career in the city to probably be a farmer's wife if we are going by the ending of the film. Many feminists view marriage as a oppressive transaction between a women and a man. Even if we ignore feminists differing views on marriage nothing in this film sounds feminist. This is a valid reading of the film, I think. But there are aspects that kind of contradict this. First and firemost, you are not taking into account the aspect of free will and empowerment. Taeko does not go with Toshio because she has to, but because she wants to. In order to finally make a decision, she has to break her routine, a routine that is oppressive and goes against her will, and she has to defy social expectations that are put on her. The idea of leaving all the progress she has made living a normative life just to follow her impulses is a huge growth for her. It's exactly the contrary she's been taught to do: follow conventions, know your position. Second, it is true that the family of Taeko is socially conservative. And so is Taeko, and the movie does handle it. She wants to be free but at the same time she feels like she owes something to the society, and she is not comfortable with the idea of not conforming. Her final decision is short-sighted and sort of an indication of this personal lack of truly radical views on the world, but it is a big change for her. No doubt that for many other people deciding to live in the country with a man she just knew is not empowering, but for Taeko, given her background, it is. Also, part of the issue you seem to have here is assuming that life in the city offers her more possibilities than life in the country, when the city for her represents everything that is normative and socially accepted, and therefore everything she has to leave behind. Her service career is part of what she was told to do. It's the country what equals liberation. Again, her context is what dictates this, and it is not necessarily the same for every woman but it is for her. The movie is not feminist in the sense that it applauds the specific choices Taeko makes in there, but in the sense that it applauds the idea of her making them and getting rid of her chains, in her own personal way. |
Sep 20, 2017 9:52 AM
#333
Not surprised that the direction this thread went. But to answer OPs original question, no. As a former comic book fan I'm all too aware at what the forcing of ideologies can do to a medium. Luckily, Japan isn't as delusional as western countries are in that aspect and don't really care about a bunch of western anime/manga fans crying about minorities/feminism/lgbt nonsense. |
Sep 20, 2017 10:05 AM
#334
This shit's still going?! Let's just agree to keep feminism away from anime....not because it's good or bad, but because it's too divisive. Jesus. |
Sep 20, 2017 10:14 AM
#335
I don't care about it as long as it's what the creators really want. If they are forced to put it in it's going to be conveyed in a shallow way after all. This is not only my stance on feminism but on every topic that is even vaguely political. It's not like it hasn't happened yet. Like many have said already Ghibli is one of the most feminist movie studios around and it shows in their work, mostly in Miyazaki's. |
Sep 20, 2017 10:16 AM
#336
jal90 said: This is a valid reading of the film, I think. But there are aspects that kind of contradict this. First and firemost, you are not taking into account the aspect of free will and empowerment. Taeko does not go with Toshio because she has to, but because she wants to. In order to finally make a decision, she has to break her routine, a routine that is oppressive and goes against her will, and she has to defy social expectations that are put on her. The idea of leaving all the progress she has made living a normative life just to follow her impulses is a huge growth for her. It's exactly the contrary she's been taught to do: follow conventions, know your position. Second, it is true that the family of Taeko is socially conservative. And so is Taeko, and the movie does handle it. She wants to be free but at the same time she feels like she owes something to the society, and she is not comfortable with the idea of not conforming. Her final decision is short-sighted and sort of an indication of this personal lack of truly radical views on the world, but it is a big change for her. No doubt that for many other people deciding to live in the country with a man she just knew is not empowering, but for Taeko, given her background, it is. Also, part of the issue you seem to have here is assuming that life in the city offers her more possibilities than life in the country, when the city for her represents everything that is normative and socially accepted, and therefore everything she has to leave behind. Her service career is part of what she was told to do. It's the country what equals liberation. Again, her context is what dictates this, and it is not necessarily the same for every woman but it is for her. The movie is not feminist in the sense that it applauds the specific choices Taeko makes in there, but in the sense that it applauds the idea of her making them and getting rid of her chains, in her own personal way. I don't think her old life routine was oppressive its just that she was bored and longing for the country life. The social expectations on finding a career in the city was not gendered, Toshio even talks about giving up going to tokyo and decided to work on the farm with his dad. The film seems more like a criticism of the idea that if you live in the country you need to go to tokyo to get a job. That can't really be called feminist when the societal expectation applies to both genders. The only female gender role expectation was for taeko to find a man because she is 27, which she found at the end of the film. I don't think Taeko was a closest feminist that was not exposed to more radical views, she was a nostalgic individual looking for a change in her life. The movie glorifies the simple country life in contrast to the complex city life. Its not a new theme in movies and it doesn't become feminist by slapping a label on it. And to call any female protagonist that plays an active role in their story feminist is reaching, its the basic part of any good story for the protagonist to be an active character rather than a passive character. The main struggle she had in the film was neither finding a man or defying societal expectations but whether moving to the country was the right decision. Would she still have the passion for the country like she does during her vacations? The ending implies that she would be content living in the country. She wasn't chained down or oppressed by society she just wanted a change in her life. |
Sep 20, 2017 10:44 AM
#337
--ALEX-- said: Let's just agree to keep feminism away from anime....not because it's good or bad, but because it's too divisive. Let's first of all understand what feminism is and understand that there's already a lot of feminism in anime... |
Sep 20, 2017 12:13 PM
#338
@Comic_Sans I'm feeling like we agree on more than we disagree on at this point and it seems silly to muse on about another posters intentions. As far as my last thoughts though culture doesn't necessarily have one side to it. In addition to being densely populated Japan is also extremely conformist, meaning people are just less likely to get involved in other people's business and call out other people's shitty behavior. I'm sure you're aware of the popular phrase "the nail the sticks out shall be hammered down". I don't think this necessarily translates into a sexist or misogynist culture. Rather its just a symptom of the conformity as my previous point still stands, why would a culture that hates women give them special privileges and access? I do believe western interventionism is a bigger issue than you make it out to be. This doesn't have to come in the form of a hard change through war and occupation (although in Japan's case it has been occupied by America since WW2 and there are still American army bases in Japan and they are not allowed to have their own formal military), but softer changes and suggestion like the UN only offering aid to certain countries if they adopt more western values. Also as I've stated before I'm not in the business of telling other people how to run their countries or how their culture should change, these things should be done voluntarily and without "incentives". |
LoneWolfSep 20, 2017 12:16 PM
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Sep 20, 2017 12:55 PM
#339
@LoneWolf I'm feeling like we agree on more than we disagree on at this point and it seems silly to muse on about another posters intentions. As far as my last thoughts though culture doesn't necessarily have one side to it. In addition to being densely populated Japan is also extremely conformist, meaning people are just less likely to get involved in other people's business and call out other people's shitty behavior. I'm sure you're aware of the popular phrase "the nail the sticks out shall be hammered down". I don't think this necessarily translates into a sexist or misogynist culture. Uuuh yeah except that Japan is well known for being one of the least equal developed countries, so that shit won't fly with me. Of course the "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down" mentality adds to it as well but claiming that Japan is on the same level as the West when it comes to equality between the sexes is just wrong.Rather its just a symptom of the conformity as my previous point still stands, why would a culture that hates women give them special privileges and access? I have already explained why that argument doesn't hold water, women only subway cars is not a special privilege but merely an attempt to sweep the problem with train molesters under the rug because it doesn't actually solve the problem.I do believe western interventionism is a bigger issue than you make it out to be. This doesn't have to come in the form of a hard change through war and occupation (although in Japan's case it has been occupied by America since WW2 and there are still American army bases in Japan and they are not allowed to have their own formal military), but softer changes and suggestion like the UN only offering aid to certain countries if they adopt more western values. Also as I've stated before I'm not in the business of telling other people how to run their countries or how their culture should change, these things should be done voluntarily and without "incentives". Life consists of favors and returned favors, if a country's leaders don't like the UN's deals then they are free to refuse them and then turn to a different organization that offers deals they find reasonable and thus keep their culture intact from westernization. No, I don't see how basic trading 101 is a problem. |
Comic_SansSep 20, 2017 1:02 PM
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Sep 20, 2017 1:02 PM
#340
What kind of feminism? If it's really about woman right then why not? Just don't overdo it. IMO, best thing to do is put it subtly, so when people discover it, it will shine and have good reception. |
"I'm tired, Boss. Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly at each other." - John Coffey, Green Miles |
Sep 20, 2017 3:30 PM
#341
--ALEX-- said: This shit's still going?! Let's just agree to keep feminism away from anime....not because it's good or bad, but because it's too divisive. Jesus. As long as Different ppl keep on being exposed to anime, Keeping away movements like Feminism is impossible. |
Sep 21, 2017 4:52 AM
#342
TheBrainintheJar said: Nyu said: TheBrainintheJar said: zodd0 said: 15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. Did the guy just made a mindless, aimless generalization about the feminist movement? Oh my. Bourmegar said: Darek said: Bourmegar said: No issue with it, if the author wants it to be there, so be it. I guess my stand ends there when it comes to politics being a part of media of any form. I mean politics where part of art since the dawn of time.So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... Funny how many of the 'pro free speech' want to censor feminism, isn't it? Wanting to censor the censorists isn't censorship. You're basically arguing that people should be "tolerant of racists". Your only arguments have ever been semantics. Comic_Sans said: @Nyu Yeah fam, I'm sure the Japanese police and Japanese rail work companies are full of angry radical feminists. I'm not even gonna comment on the second paragraph where you claim Japan is a sexist and discriminatory female only train instead of a country. Feminists don't lobby? That's what your asserting, that the only way Feminists can change things is by controlling the systems. That isn't true. Feminist changes happened by campaigning, not by controlling the government. I don't see how saying bad things about video games is crying for censorship. Some criticism of feminism is valid, but that one never took hold of me. I never saw a 'censor this!' feminist. No, Anita doesn't count. She's a critic who doesn't ask for it. The UN tried to censor anime, "feminists certainly don't want to censor anything", Gaming news outlets like Kotaku and polygon are always asking for censorship, and they get it, like Tracer's appearance getting censored, like Street Fighter getting censored, this happens all the time, Feminists got GTA V censored, by getting it removed from stores in Australia, Anita is asking for censorship, that is the point of her videos, to try and change the things in games that she is criticising. Or are you just gonna get into semantics, "but that'ssss not reallllyyy censorship". If so, I'm blocking you and ignoring your posts from now on. |
Sep 21, 2017 4:56 AM
#343
I don't get why you are so against censorship Nyu, the nazi are all about censorship. Well, though I guess instead of censoring people, they just murdered and silenced them. |
Sep 21, 2017 4:56 AM
#344
--ALEX-- said: This shit's still going?! Let's just agree to keep feminism away from anime....not because it's good or bad, but because it's too divisive. Jesus. It's divisive because it is bad, and it is factually bad, why? Because discrimination is bad, and Feminists support systemic discrimination like Affirmative Action. Comic_Sans said: @LoneWolf I'm feeling like we agree on more than we disagree on at this point and it seems silly to muse on about another posters intentions. As far as my last thoughts though culture doesn't necessarily have one side to it. In addition to being densely populated Japan is also extremely conformist, meaning people are just less likely to get involved in other people's business and call out other people's shitty behavior. I'm sure you're aware of the popular phrase "the nail the sticks out shall be hammered down". I don't think this necessarily translates into a sexist or misogynist culture. Uuuh yeah except that Japan is well known for being one of the least equal developed countries, so that shit won't fly with me. Of course the "the nail that sticks out gets hammered down" mentality adds to it as well but claiming that Japan is on the same level as the West when it comes to equality between the sexes is just wrong.Rather its just a symptom of the conformity as my previous point still stands, why would a culture that hates women give them special privileges and access? I have already explained why that argument doesn't hold water, women only subway cars is not a special privilege but merely an attempt to sweep the problem with train molesters under the rug because it doesn't actually solve the problem.I do believe western interventionism is a bigger issue than you make it out to be. This doesn't have to come in the form of a hard change through war and occupation (although in Japan's case it has been occupied by America since WW2 and there are still American army bases in Japan and they are not allowed to have their own formal military), but softer changes and suggestion like the UN only offering aid to certain countries if they adopt more western values. Also as I've stated before I'm not in the business of telling other people how to run their countries or how their culture should change, these things should be done voluntarily and without "incentives". Life consists of favors and returned favors, if a country's leaders don't like the UN's deals then they are free to refuse them and then turn to a different organization that offers deals they find reasonable and thus keep their culture intact from westernization. No, I don't see how basic trading 101 is a problem.Japan is equal, men and women have Equality. Just because there are no Affirmative Action programs to give you special treatment because you're a woman, doesn't mean it's lacking equality. |
Sep 21, 2017 4:58 AM
#345
Rotton-Girl said: What if the author's vision is political? Real talk, I would say an author's vision is always "political", one way or another. People write stuff based on their belief and ideologies, as well life experiences. Then again, "political" is a meaningless word, nowadays. |
Sep 21, 2017 5:03 AM
#346
Bourmegar said: --ALEX-- said: This shit's still going?! Let's just agree to keep feminism away from anime....not because it's good or bad, but because it's too divisive. Jesus. As long as Different ppl keep on being exposed to anime, Keeping away movements like Feminism is impossible. You mentioned on a different post that, you think it's wrong to censor Feminism, however, Feminism is censorship, so by censoring Feminism, we are preventing the wide scale censorship they would enforce. Feminism has no place in Anime, and people keep bringing up Miyzaki, he is hardly a Feminist, having female characters in a story is not Feminist, having a independent woman is not feminist, it's real life. He is hardly a feminist, women have been independent for hundreds of years, that's not some new concept. The only thing that makes him feminist, is his assertion that he is a feminist, he has nothing to show for it. Bernrika said: I don't get why you are so against censorship Nyu, the nazi are all about censorship. Well, though I guess instead of censoring people, they just murdered and silenced them. I only support censorship of Feminism, cause it's like Racism, you can't be tolerant of racism, because it prevents being tolerant of other peoples. |
Sep 21, 2017 5:05 AM
#347
Sep 21, 2017 5:07 AM
#348
Bernrika said: Nyu said: I only support censorship of Feminism, cause it's like Racism, you can't be tolerant of racism, because it prevents being tolerant of other peoples. The fact that a literal nazi is writing this is really funny. Well I'm not a literal Nazi, my version of it is reformed. |
Sep 21, 2017 5:07 AM
#349
Nyu said: TheBrainintheJar said: Nyu said: TheBrainintheJar said: zodd0 said: 15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. Did the guy just made a mindless, aimless generalization about the feminist movement? Oh my. Bourmegar said: Darek said: Bourmegar said: No issue with it, if the author wants it to be there, so be it. I guess my stand ends there when it comes to politics being a part of media of any form. I mean politics where part of art since the dawn of time.So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... Funny how many of the 'pro free speech' want to censor feminism, isn't it? Wanting to censor the censorists isn't censorship. You're basically arguing that people should be "tolerant of racists". Your only arguments have ever been semantics. Comic_Sans said: @Nyu Yeah fam, I'm sure the Japanese police and Japanese rail work companies are full of angry radical feminists. I'm not even gonna comment on the second paragraph where you claim Japan is a sexist and discriminatory female only train instead of a country. Feminists don't lobby? That's what your asserting, that the only way Feminists can change things is by controlling the systems. That isn't true. Feminist changes happened by campaigning, not by controlling the government. I don't see how saying bad things about video games is crying for censorship. Some criticism of feminism is valid, but that one never took hold of me. I never saw a 'censor this!' feminist. No, Anita doesn't count. She's a critic who doesn't ask for it. The UN tried to censor anime, "feminists certainly don't want to censor anything", Gaming news outlets like Kotaku and polygon are always asking for censorship, and they get it, like Tracer's appearance getting censored, like Street Fighter getting censored, this happens all the time, Feminists got GTA V censored, by getting it removed from stores in Australia, Anita is asking for censorship, that is the point of her videos, to try and change the things in games that she is criticising. Or are you just gonna get into semantics, "but that'ssss not reallllyyy censorship". If so, I'm blocking you and ignoring your posts from now on. we already talk about this nyu... the one who refute it also japan feminist... so it was "faminist" who honestly UN is is acually filled with moralist conservative if anything than pro cencorship versus feminist againts cencorship... |
Sep 21, 2017 5:09 AM
#350
Kuma said: Nyu said: TheBrainintheJar said: Nyu said: TheBrainintheJar said: zodd0 said: 15poundfish said: similarity feminists will deny objective facts about science as being patriarchal propaganda. Ironically, all you're doing here is denying facts. You and all other anti-feminists have your own personal defenitions of what feminism is. It won't change facts though. 15poundfish said: Ghibli films are also not feminist in the same way a movie about love is not christian. You compare a religion to a womens rights movement, that's a new one. Everyone who has seen Ghibli films and at the same time knows what feminism is knows that it's one of the most feministic film studios in the world. It's run by feminists and it's movies are filled with feminist themes and narratives. 15poundfish said: In spirited away the main theme is about a selfish brat becoming more courageous and independent by living in the spirit world while finding a way to save her parents. What made me decide to make this film was the realisation that there are no films made for that age group of ten-year old girls. It was through observing the daughter of a friend that I realised there were no films out there for her, no films that directly spoke to her. Certainly, girls like her see films that contain characters their age, but they can't identify with them, because they are imaginary characters that don't resemble them at all. With Spirited Away I wanted to say to them 'don't worry, it will be all right in the end, there will be something for you', not just in cinema, but also in everyday life. For that it was necessary to have a heroine who was an ordinary girl, not someone who could fly or do something impossible. Just a girl you can encounter anywhere in Japan. Every time I wrote or drew something concerning the character of Chihiro and her actions, I asked myself the question whether my friend's daughter or her friends would be capable of doing it. That was my criteria for every scene in which I gave Chihiro another task or challenge. Because it's through surmounting these challenges that this little Japanese girl becomes a capable person. It took me three years to make this film, so now my friend's daughter is thirteen years old rather than ten, but she still loved the film and that made me very happy. - Miyazaki If Miyazaki is not a feminist, then nobody is. Did the guy just made a mindless, aimless generalization about the feminist movement? Oh my. Bourmegar said: Darek said: Bourmegar said: No issue with it, if the author wants it to be there, so be it. I guess my stand ends there when it comes to politics being a part of media of any form. I mean politics where part of art since the dawn of time.So now I wonder, what do you think about political stuff in Anime? Yh We ppl should be able to talk about things, thus media like anime should also be able to talk about things that the creator wants to show and discus about. This is why I don't like censorship, it makes us harder to talk about sensetive subjects like for example suicide or even femenism and etc. And if we cannot talk or discus about these things then things will only get worse thanks to ignorance. Sadly, ppl here seem to want to shut up each other instead of having a reasonable discussion here...... Funny how many of the 'pro free speech' want to censor feminism, isn't it? Wanting to censor the censorists isn't censorship. You're basically arguing that people should be "tolerant of racists". Your only arguments have ever been semantics. Comic_Sans said: @Nyu Yeah fam, I'm sure the Japanese police and Japanese rail work companies are full of angry radical feminists. I'm not even gonna comment on the second paragraph where you claim Japan is a sexist and discriminatory female only train instead of a country. Feminists don't lobby? That's what your asserting, that the only way Feminists can change things is by controlling the systems. That isn't true. Feminist changes happened by campaigning, not by controlling the government. I don't see how saying bad things about video games is crying for censorship. Some criticism of feminism is valid, but that one never took hold of me. I never saw a 'censor this!' feminist. No, Anita doesn't count. She's a critic who doesn't ask for it. The UN tried to censor anime, "feminists certainly don't want to censor anything", Gaming news outlets like Kotaku and polygon are always asking for censorship, and they get it, like Tracer's appearance getting censored, like Street Fighter getting censored, this happens all the time, Feminists got GTA V censored, by getting it removed from stores in Australia, Anita is asking for censorship, that is the point of her videos, to try and change the things in games that she is criticising. Or are you just gonna get into semantics, "but that'ssss not reallllyyy censorship". If so, I'm blocking you and ignoring your posts from now on. we already talk about this nyu... the one who refute it also japan feminist... so it was faminist pro cencorship versus feminist againts cencorship... Feminists in Japan couldn't support censorship of anime, cause they would lose a significant amount of support. So, they just done what was in their best interest. Feminists in Japan are as toxic as those in the West, they got Affirmative Action implemented in Japan last year. Which is systemic discrimination. |
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