Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata ♭ Episode 9 Discussion

BladeMemories said:
IMO. I really hate Eriri to the bones

Remember when they were kids she abandoned tomoya because he`s an otaku and does not want to sacrifice her Social Life?

And Now this for the second time.

Eriri is so much worse than Tomoya, IMO She`s much more selfish and inconsiderate thinking its always about her.

And I agree Only MASOCHIST would want to work with Akane, If you have any self respect as a professional you wont..

Nigami_Shin said:
i really hate it when they force drama like that.

also it seems like the writer from Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata doesn't know anything about how creatives are handled or creativity in general. usually you give them as much free space as possible - every big corporation does it.

4kicks said:
Where the hell does Utaha get off telling Tomoya all that after the fact? Apologizes mean jack shit when she never even bothered to talk to him about it until after a whole month, well after she took the job. If Tomoya didn't meet up with her at the gate, I doubt she would have said a single word to him...the fucking bitch. Should have straightforward told him what he needed to know the moment she realized it--at day 1...not sit around her ass hoping Mr. Dense will get her hints she throws around, or figure it out on his own until it's all too late. It's up to team members to support one another, speak out when needed, and not let a single person shoulder everything. Any leader needs to be able to listen to what their team members has to say if they have an objection, or else that may spell ruin for the project if something is deliberately overlooked hoping the team leader would notice it eventually. If the objection gets vetoed, only then can the blame be on placed on the leader if shit hits the fan. Megumi may have forgiven Tomoya for keeping things to himself, but those two made the exact same mistake as Tomoya did, and when she finds out...oh boy. Communication is the heart to any team after all; it can make or break them. In the real world, miscommunication can mean getting shown out the building by security.

When push comes to shove, it's one thing, I get it...but that kind of emotional abuse is what drives people over the edge, broken, even suicidal (with IRL instances to prove it). I'm not saying what Akane said was wrong because it definitely had some merit, but it's the way she said it. I welcome constructive criticism that doesn't pull any punches, but I wouldn't be able to work for someone that insulting, disrespectful, and overall toxic who treats people like trash. I'd straight up tell the bitch to go fuck herself If I were Eriri (especially now when she's not on the payroll yet). I can almost guarantee the bitch is running a black company. As an employer, I'd fire that woman the instant I found out her abusive practices, no matter how good she is or how much money she brings in; I want a team player, not a nutjob drunk on her own talents, power-tripping. I'd hate to be married to that mess.

Also, that thing about her work being easily copied. It just doesn't add up. If Akane can easily copy her level of work...here's an idea: hire the more talented person who drew the copies or do it goddamn yourself. And no fucking shit it was "easy" to copy, anybody can copy (tracing excluded) with a sufficient amount of artistic skill, because they have a frame of reference to look at, right in front of them to work off of. In fact, that's standard practice required for many artists in the industry because they can't have only one person doing all the illustrations all the time (excluding small studios)...if they did, anime studios would never be able to release consistently weekly episodes, and there wouldn't be any point to having giant companies with hundreds of artists; many of whom have to pick up after another where the previous one left off. That shouldn't be enough call Eriri's work "terrible" or whatever Akane called it. Hell, even pixiv artists that do fanart as a hobby can copy an original so well to the point you wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't official art--it's worthy of praise, but nothing unusual.

At this point in time, Tomoya is too weak-willed and needs to step up his game, and that Akane bitch is too full of herself that needs to be knocked down a few pegs. Eriri knew Tomoya was going to make a new game, but the bitch gave him the shaft and took a job without telling him because another bitch baited her into it, backstabbing Tomoya. Utaha is full of shit, saying she wanted to work with Eriri again, when she knew damn well Akane didn't care about her. Megumi is out of the loop, the only person left worth rooting for. And everybody has forgotten about Michiru.

4kicks said:
Where the hell does Utaha get off telling Tomoya all that after the fact? Apologizes mean jack shit when she never even bothered to talk to him about it until after a whole month, well after she took the job. If Tomoya didn't meet up with her at the gate, I doubt she would have said a single word to him...the fucking bitch. Should have straightforward told him what he needed to know the moment she realized it--at day 1...not sit around her ass hoping Mr. Dense will get her hints she throws around, or figure it out on his own until it's all too late. It's up to team members to support one another, speak out when needed, and not let a single person shoulder everything. Any leader needs to be able to listen to what their team members has to say if they have an objection, or else that may spell ruin for the project if something is deliberately overlooked hoping the team leader would notice it eventually. If the objection gets vetoed, only then can the blame be on placed on the leader if shit hits the fan. Megumi may have forgiven Tomoya for keeping things to himself, but those two made the exact same mistake as Tomoya did, and when she finds out...oh boy. Communication is the heart to any team after all; it can make or break them. In the real world, miscommunication can mean getting shown out the building by security.

When push comes to shove, it's one thing, I get it...but that kind of emotional abuse is what drives people over the edge, broken, even suicidal (with IRL instances to prove it). I'm not saying what Akane said was wrong because it definitely had some merit, but it's the way she said it. I welcome constructive criticism that doesn't pull any punches, but I wouldn't be able to work for someone that insulting, disrespectful, and overall toxic who treats people like trash. I'd straight up tell the bitch to go fuck herself If I were Eriri (especially now when she's not on the payroll yet). I can almost guarantee the bitch is running a black company. As an employer, I'd fire that woman the instant I found out her abusive practices, no matter how good she is or how much money she brings in; I want a team player, not a nutjob drunk on her own talents, power-tripping. I'd hate to be married to that mess.

Also, that thing about her work being easily copied. It just doesn't add up. If Akane can easily copy her level of work...here's an idea: hire the more talented person who drew the copies or do it goddamn yourself. And no fucking shit it was "easy" to copy, anybody can copy (tracing excluded) with a sufficient amount of artistic skill, because they have a frame of reference to look at, right in front of them to work off of. In fact, that's standard practice required for many artists in the industry because they can't have only one person doing all the illustrations all the time (excluding small studios)...if they did, anime studios would never be able to release consistently weekly episodes, and there wouldn't be any point to having giant companies with hundreds of artists; many of whom have to pick up after another where the previous one left off. That shouldn't be enough call Eriri's work "terrible" or whatever Akane called it. Hell, even pixiv artists that do fanart as a hobby can copy an original so well to the point you wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't official art--it's worthy of praise, but nothing unusual.

At this point in time, Tomoya is too weak-willed and needs to step up his game, and that Akane bitch is too full of herself that needs to be knocked down a few pegs. Eriri knew Tomoya was going to make a new game, but the bitch gave him the shaft and took a job without telling him because another bitch baited her into it, backstabbing Tomoya. Utaha is full of shit, saying she wanted to work with Eriri again, when she knew damn well Akane didn't care about her. Megumi is out of the loop, the only person left worth rooting for. And everybody has forgotten about Michiru.


I agree. Also wouldn't make sense to treat your money maker, the MVP, the backbone of the project like some kind of pack mule. Akane implied that she didn't mind whether or not Eriri was on board when she showed her work could be imitated. It's like if a company tried telling the original mangaka illustrator that the anime they're adapting was good without their input/supervision, all while berating them, saying they're unneeded now that they already hold the license to adapt their work from the publisher. That just wouldn't make sense.

RyouHayato said:
Well as far as I read this forum discussion I agree with all opinion about this anime turned into a shitty drama.

Didn't like that Akane girl appearance at the end of the series and we knew that there's only 2 episode left. I think this is going to be a rushed series and shitty ending.

Mich666 said:
Serves him right, I say. It was really pleasure for me to watch him suffer, and that really says about his quality as main protagonist.

Utaha shined this time, every one of her words were on spot. And when being offered a dreamjob, there is really saying no, if only for getting more experience. Let's face it, Tomoya really sucked as director and I would rather watched where Utaha and Eriri can go without his meddling. And what's more his indecisiveness is even worse, he knows all of the girls loves him yet he still cannot decide and commit to one of them if for the fear for breaking something precious... but he's hurting them all even more by this behavior. And his arrongance to even ask them to work with him again while effectively offering them nothing in return, only pain.

It's pretty clear why they don't want to suffer with him anymore and why they want to grow instead. And mind me, this is the right choice else they would be regreting that for rest of their lives. The best thing Tomoya could do here is to make the game by himself without being carried by others. And wait for one year till their engagement is over. Sadly, this won't probably happen in the anime.

It's getting bit overdramatic, kinda, but so far I'm willing to accept it if the end is any good. And I do think happy ever-after end won't work here anymore, not in this situation. And the fact there are only two more episodes hints at the continuation in another season.

NudeBear said:
This show works best as a cute, light-hearted comedy between katou and tomoya. The rest is fine (the harem) but what really drags it down is this nonsensical, overbearing drama. These girls were professionals long before they started working with Tomoya and Tomoya refused to give them any news/proposals for months, so they went ahead and found other proposals. This isn't backstabbing or betrayal, it's real life and he could always ask for their partnership again sometime in the near future. The problems in this show aren't really a big deal as they make it out to be.

XaneKudo said:


Oddly enough, I would agree to this if it wasn't for one simple fact: the anime seems to be catering to the fact that Utaha and Eriri's main point of motivation is to have someone kick them in the ass instead of finding their own self-motivation, something that Akane does very well and Aki doesn't. The sad thing is, that method can only work for so long, and it's usually a last resort when the creator's hit rock bottom. If you find yourself needing that kind of motivation to do your best all the time, then you'd become totally lost when someone gives you free reign to do whatever you please, hence why Eriri is in her current slump. She became too dependant on someone to push her instead of finding her own motivation, which asks the question "Why does she draw?" Utaha is somewhat in the same boat, only going along with the offer because Eriri did as the major reason.

In that kind of context, Aki isn't exactly a bad director. He's just not the kind of person to use that last resort method, and would rather have them use their own love for the art to push themselves higher (aka they think they can do better than what they previously done, which is common for a lot of creators to say to themselves after a completed project). What's bad is the girls' motivations to get better by having someone constantly push them and not find the self-motivation to better themselves.

The first point when Utaha told Aki exactly what he needed to do and why they left was spot on, but they took a month to even say remotely anything to him, and it was when he put his proposal out, and Eriri even knew that he had something planned beforehand. The issue here is that they didn't tell him about anything...and remember that Katou said that they shouldn't keep secrets from each other last episode...



The ony backstabbing part is that they didn't say anything to him for a month about it, which isn't exactly very professional. It would be fine if they told him about it when they found out, so they could have a discussion about it, and that way he wouldn't overreact about it and even encourage them to go ahead with it while he says his farewells.

Sadly, the communication between them is hella lost, and let's not forget what Katou said about keeping secrets last episode...

Lyulka said:


Totally agree with you,

But I think the other factor is that no matter how of an asshole Akane is, the fact is that she`s a famous producer in the industry

She has the resources to bring Utaha and Eriri to the professional arena, though they were already professionals, in the context of Game creation. Aki`s puny Game cant even compete to Akane`s

In short The two girls are seeking both fame and glory, not just artistic value,

Roy_Focker said:


So, this is what you would have considered a mind-break if this were to be a hentai with the scumbag finally able to separate the heroine(s) from the mc...!? At this point I would like for Tomoya to go and ask Izumi to be her new artist (I know she has obligations with her brother Iori's dōjin circle "Rouge en rouge.") but he needs to grow a backbone... and compete against Akane with all his strength and disadvantage and even if it is a long shot beat her at her game.

On a side note:
Utaha-senpai role reduced to a nanny that has to be an insult to bad she said yes to the proposal and joined Akane team to be able to work with Eriri again...

Tokoya said:
This episode ending way too abruptly but damn this was intense from beginning to end O_O

The rage in this thread is hilarious though....Yeah it was pretty shitty of them to not tell him about things but honestly, given how stupid Tomoya is + the fact that they have their own careers to begin with, can you really get mad at them for working on a project that's THIS big?

I've been watching anime for years so that one girl's over the top dialogue didn't bother me but rather I think a lot of you are missing the point of it all = Basically she's acting like how publishers and editors treat their content creators (Even though it's an extreme exaggeration).....I feel like this woman's over the top moments distracted a lot of you of this fact because be that as it may, Tomoya is still insanely guilty of everything all of these girls have told him

I mean look at Weekly Shounen Jump for example......They demand A LOT from their mangaka and we know this because guys like Kishimoto and Togashi have talked about deadlines etc and its even more evident now with the new mangaka showing up whereas if they aren't working up to what they want them to be, they get axed (Which is why guys like the creator of Hungry Joker had to resort to writing trash like Black Clover)

This is a leading person in the industry giving them a golden opportunity that tons of people would kill for, let's be realistic here people....Jesus this is almost as bad as all the people bitching over Scum's Wish

XaneKudo said:


I agree. If given an oppertunity to better themselves, why not take it? Still, I don't think he's that dumb. Insensitive, but definitely not dumb. The only thing I can try to argue here is that their reasons as to why they need to get better are not the best ones, and the anime caters to those reasons.

Basically, in any other universe, Tomoya would be a decent director, maybe even good. In this one, he's shown as a poor one since the people who want to work with him need the push motivation instead of the self motivation, which can only work for so long until they need the self motivation, which is something that Eriri needs right now since she's stuck in the push motivation and no one is helping her get to that self motivation.

Lyulka said:

Yeah that was Im expecting too. BUT!!!

Sorry I cant just prevent myself from saying this cuz the drama is damn hilarious its so bad.

DONT READ IF YOU DONT WANT TO KNOW.

XaneKudo said:

The anime seems to be catering to the fact that Utaha and Eriri's main point of motivation is to have someone kick them in the ass instead of finding their own self-motivation, something that Akane does very well and Aki doesn't. The sad thing is, that method can only work for so long, and it's usually a last resort when the creator's hit rock bottom. If you find yourself needing that kind of motivation to do your best all the time, then you'd become totally lost when someone gives you free reign to do whatever you please, hence why Eriri is in her current slump. She became too dependant on someone to push her instead of finding her own motivation, which asks the question "Why does she draw?" Utaha is somewhat in the same boat, only going along with the offer because Eriri did as the major reason.

In that kind of context, Aki isn't exactly a bad director. He's just not the kind of person to use that last resort method, and would rather have them use their own love for the art to push themselves higher (aka they think they can do better than what they previously done, which is common for a lot of creators to say to themselves after a completed project). What's bad is the girls' motivations to get better by having someone constantly push them and not find the self-motivation to better themselves.

XaneKudo said:
The first point when Utaha told Aki exactly what he needed to do and why they left was spot on, but they took a month to even say remotely anything to him, and it was when he put his proposal out, and Eriri even knew that he had something planned beforehand. The issue here is that they didn't tell him about anything...and remember that Katou said that they shouldn't keep secrets from each other last episode...

HikaruKaneko said:
I don't know about this. That ending was overblown to the point of absurdity. For years I've been surrounded by many creative people and I can't say I know anyone who would do what Utaha and Eriri did in the way they did it. I understand wanting to push yourself as an artist but I don't believe for a second that they couldn't do that with the group they were already in. Also for them to not mention anything about what they are going to do until Tomoya comes to them with a new proposal (which they apparently knew he wanted to do) is just crazy to me. This is much worse than what Tomoya did to Megumi and I would question whether or not Utaha and Eriri are even worth spending time with.

NudeBear said:
This show works best as a cute, light-hearted comedy between katou and tomoya. The rest is fine (the harem) but what really drags it down is this nonsensical, overbearing drama. These girls were professionals long before they started working with Tomoya and Tomoya refused to give them any news/proposals for months, so they went ahead and found other proposals. This isn't backstabbing or betrayal, it's real life and he could always ask for their partnership again sometime in the near future. The problems in this show aren't really a big deal as they make it out to be.

Mich666 said:

As a content creator myself I can say the I'm always giving the best results when I have firm deadline before me and set goals I have to reach in this time. It's how those things usually works and it's nice this anime reflects on that. It's also true to closer the deadline is the mork work gets done as one had to immerse completely into their work. I agree it's not necessarily a pleasant to work this way and when there is deadline after deadline with tons of work one can burn-out pretty fast. But... that's why there are plans and that's why the work should be diveded into small chunks, milestones that would work as partial achievements. Being creative with lots of freedom often leads to setting too many of those goals and one can get easily overwhelmed with nothing being done properly.

If.. and only if he manages to come with some counterargument to Akane's words, if he offers them a freedom of work bounded by a clear vision that allows them to grow and to project themselves into he may yet still have a chance. But their possibilities are certainly limited by now and I don't believe his current dating romance is something to meet those expectations (even though we all know the anime we are all watching right now is the final result of all that). I don't think his attempts to reach the end that satisfies everyone will work now, he clearly needs to choose now, he needs to ditch all of his undecesiveness.

I want to believe they would come with some clever solution to this situation yet at the same time I fear this anime just bends some characters into compliance with whatever motivational naive friendship nonsense he is going to say in anger to show them he can be a demanding direactor too. Other than that, the only solution I see for their problem would be him and Katou also joing Akane's RPG team if Utaha and Eriri would say they won't work for her without them (as it would be a great learning experience for their future dream game which can be one year delayed). But as reality goes I don't see this outcome very probable.


But at that time Katou only meant him and her, not the others. And he took like three months without even talking to her, if they had some trust before it's all gone by now, and mind me those things can heal in time but never completely, the memories always remains. All the secrecy only means they don't really want to work with him again for they only remember their painful experience and don't want necessarily get hurt again (which is kinda human behevior to stay away from such things). And it's obvious you won't enjoy something you have to force to do.