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Sep 28, 2016 1:16 AM
#151
jal90 said: How are you defining good in terms of a introductory episode? The way I see a good introduction episode is one that introduces the main characters, the story, hook(what draws the viewer to continue watching the show) and a minor conflict ( The main conflict can be revealed in the first episode but its not a requirement) that is resolved. The shows I have watched of your examples have solid introduction episodes. An introduction episode is probably not going to have the same impact on the viewer as the climax but the first episode is extremely important and key to any successful anime.I didn't say «absolutely awful», just «not one of the best». And under this label Gintama, One Piece, Azumanga Daioh, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Tutu, The tatami galaxy, Welcome to the NHK, Akage no Anne, etc. among my 10s and off the top of my head. The only clear ones I can mention for the contrary are Mushishi and Usagi Drop. |
Sep 28, 2016 2:18 AM
#152
I personally try to watch around 3 episodes before I decide, unless the first one really really threw me off. But I have experienced it with TV shows as well, that if I come back at a much later time and try to rewatch it, the overall view on it changes and I push through another ep or two. I'd say in many cases it really depends on the genre of the anime as well. If you got story heavy ones it is almost obvious they can't put in everything in the first ep. It gets restricted to one part and the rest follows after, often enough by ending the ep in a major cliffhanger that will have your jaw touch ground. So no, in most cases I would disagree. |
Sep 28, 2016 2:18 AM
#153
romagia said: "The first episode is a good indicator of the overall quality of a show."???? Absolutely preposterous i say good sir. No man in the faculty of their minds could ever cum up with such a thing. There is indeed no point here, only trash. And others should know it instead of writing 4 pages of non-stop fun. Quite. Such a contention should not be entertained even for a moment by the fine gentlemen of My Anime List. And of course, any person who styles themselves critics would snicker at the fool proposing they only watch one episode and be done with it! As good old chap Shakespeare once wrote, "lord, what fools these mortals be!" |
Sep 28, 2016 2:48 AM
#154
15poundfish said: jal90 said: How are you defining good in terms of a introductory episode? The way I see a good introduction episode is one that introduces the main characters, the story, hook(what draws the viewer to continue watching the show) and a minor conflict ( The main conflict can be revealed in the first episode but its not a requirement) that is resolved. The shows I have watched of your examples have solid introduction episodes. An introduction episode is probably not going to have the same impact on the viewer as the climax but the first episode is extremely important and key to any successful anime.I didn't say «absolutely awful», just «not one of the best». And under this label Gintama, One Piece, Azumanga Daioh, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Tutu, The tatami galaxy, Welcome to the NHK, Akage no Anne, etc. among my 10s and off the top of my head. The only clear ones I can mention for the contrary are Mushishi and Usagi Drop. ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿? Do I have to remind you that your original premise was "the pilot always tends to be one of the best episodes in the show"? Of course most of these are good. That's beside the point. |
Sep 28, 2016 5:27 AM
#155
The first episode is a terrible indicator for wether or not a show is good. Take Hunter x Hunter for example. |
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Sep 28, 2016 5:46 AM
#156
I disagree. My top examples of shows that got better after their first episode are Another and Princess Tutu. |
"No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
Sep 28, 2016 6:26 AM
#157
The first episode sets things up. It can be promising as you are introduced to a whole bunch of stuff but mainly characters and mechanics which stand out from the crowd. That's pretty much it to me, so many things devolved after a couple of episodes which achieved more than your regular animes, and many more didn't do much for more than one hour. |
Sep 28, 2016 7:12 AM
#158
yes. most of quality aspect like animation, soundtrack, main characters, and voice actor can be seen from episode 1 |
Sep 28, 2016 9:01 AM
#160
I think it is more the opposite. A bad beginning use to mean that the series is not going anywhere. For example, I think Gakkou Gurashi first chapter was awesome. But at the end it wasn't as good as its beginning. But usually when you see a fantasy school-centered harem anime you can tell if it is going to be bad from the very beginning. Just take Gakusen Toshi Asterisk and Rakudai Kishi, both from last year fall season. I think almost all of us could tell which one was completely terible and which one was at least decent with only the first 1 or 2 first episodes. |
Sep 28, 2016 9:10 AM
#161
Zoltor said: TheBrainintheJar said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: I don't see why people have strict rules for these kinds of things, I merely drop shows based on how much they test my patience. Yikes, you really should come up with some kind of rules. I really hope you're understating your analyzing/testing process, because if not, I'm scared to ask how many crappy anime you end up watching a lot of, before figuring out, that It's a really crappy anime. I'm not saying I have no analyzing process in dropping things, usually it's how many times the show annoys me in some way before I feel it's no longer worth continuing, which usually happens within the first episode or so. I just don't see why people have these strict 3 episode rules, and the like, it seem arbitrary to me. Oh ok. Well the 3-4 rule, is a min amount that should be seen before making a decision, as the 1st episode usually has no baring on the rest of a series(unless It's like a comedy or straight up romcom, as they pretty much always stay consistent throughout the series, and they're not about story telling), doesn't mean such a rule limits you to such, you can definitely watch more if you feel a specific anime needs more time. This rule exists for a reason, It's to avoid dropping/writing off a potentially great anime, due to jumping to conclusions. The fact is most anime/stories in general change quite a bit after the "opening act", so to say(and that's just most anime, that doesn't even count special case anime, that either start off with a prelude or involves a lot of world/character building). I guess I'm just more fickle than others, I'd rather watch a show that manages to pique my interests quickly, one that shows signs of getting better soon, or at the very least one that doesn't instantly irritate me. Also I don't think I miss out on much by dropping things as I wish to, I've never totally written off a show, and I'm open to going back to one for whatever reason. Length is also something to consider, if a 12 episode show takes 1/4 of its total running time to get going, that really questions whether it's worth it. Yea naturally a 12-13 episode show, would require the suspension of such a rule, not to mention usual standard requirements ingenal(such is only for a quick fix, and you can only hope for so much from such anyway). @TheBrainintheJar My condolences then, because very few even high end anime, have anything better then just a meh/ok 1st ep. Digimon Tamers, Medabots, Denou Coil, Shinsekai Yori, Tatami Galaxy all had attention-grabbing and great openers. If a storyteller is good, they can tell a good story in 20 minutes. That's not true, there's a reasons movies are rated on a completely different scale, then series are. Also I love how all you people who seem to think a 1st ep is = to a entire anime series, seem to also gloss over the fact, that even when a 1st ep is great, it sure as hell Isn't a indication the rest of the series is or is even the direction the story will take. Remember anime like Sengoku Basara, what a great 1st ep, shame basically the entire rest of the series sucked. Oh yea, lets not forget the shitstorm that is SAO. Hell even when a series doesn't go to shit, the first ep has little to nothing to do with a anime most of the time. Take Moribito Guardian of the Spirit for instance, the 1st episode is epic, and implies It's going to be a epic wuxia series, but that's not how the series plays out at all, it instead plays out as a pure sol, very little drama, no tragedy to speak of, and next to no action... The 1st ep Isn't very representative of the anime 1 bit, and if someone didn't like very deliberately paced sol anime, they would hate it, even though they loved the 1st ep. In cased where there Isn't a prelude, studios love to attempt to turn a 1st ep into a glorified trailer, and most of the time, that's all the 1st ep is. Do you buy video games just based off stupid CG trailers? I certainly hope not. There's so many different types of story telling, that even negates a fist episode mattering at all(and at very least, not by its own anyway), you first ep people just outright ignore all the nuances, and changes of a story. Here's another example, Spice and Wolf has a very average 1st ep, nothing special here, and I assure you the last thing people would expect, is a extremely intelligent sol, that goes into old world trading, in such super high detail. This is a prime example of a anime being way better then the 1st ep too. ect, ect, ect, ect. Now back to rewatching Victorian Romance Emma, a anime that while has a pretty good 1st ep for a sol anime ingeneral, sure as hell doesn't indicate that the series would end up being this great. Good thing I don't judge a anime on just the 1st ep :) Every episode is important. If it isn't, it shouldn't exist. Else it just wastes 20 minutes of my life. I don't judge an anime based on the 1st episode. Few episodes are as good as the whole series. Still, a lot of first episodes tell me a lot about how a series is going to be. Many great shows had attention-grabbing first episode that lay down a lot of great ideas they'll develop. |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Sep 28, 2016 9:38 AM
#162
TheBrainintheJar said: Zoltor said: TheBrainintheJar said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: I don't see why people have strict rules for these kinds of things, I merely drop shows based on how much they test my patience. Yikes, you really should come up with some kind of rules. I really hope you're understating your analyzing/testing process, because if not, I'm scared to ask how many crappy anime you end up watching a lot of, before figuring out, that It's a really crappy anime. I'm not saying I have no analyzing process in dropping things, usually it's how many times the show annoys me in some way before I feel it's no longer worth continuing, which usually happens within the first episode or so. I just don't see why people have these strict 3 episode rules, and the like, it seem arbitrary to me. Oh ok. Well the 3-4 rule, is a min amount that should be seen before making a decision, as the 1st episode usually has no baring on the rest of a series(unless It's like a comedy or straight up romcom, as they pretty much always stay consistent throughout the series, and they're not about story telling), doesn't mean such a rule limits you to such, you can definitely watch more if you feel a specific anime needs more time. This rule exists for a reason, It's to avoid dropping/writing off a potentially great anime, due to jumping to conclusions. The fact is most anime/stories in general change quite a bit after the "opening act", so to say(and that's just most anime, that doesn't even count special case anime, that either start off with a prelude or involves a lot of world/character building). I guess I'm just more fickle than others, I'd rather watch a show that manages to pique my interests quickly, one that shows signs of getting better soon, or at the very least one that doesn't instantly irritate me. Also I don't think I miss out on much by dropping things as I wish to, I've never totally written off a show, and I'm open to going back to one for whatever reason. Length is also something to consider, if a 12 episode show takes 1/4 of its total running time to get going, that really questions whether it's worth it. Yea naturally a 12-13 episode show, would require the suspension of such a rule, not to mention usual standard requirements ingenal(such is only for a quick fix, and you can only hope for so much from such anyway). @TheBrainintheJar My condolences then, because very few even high end anime, have anything better then just a meh/ok 1st ep. Digimon Tamers, Medabots, Denou Coil, Shinsekai Yori, Tatami Galaxy all had attention-grabbing and great openers. If a storyteller is good, they can tell a good story in 20 minutes. That's not true, there's a reasons movies are rated on a completely different scale, then series are. Also I love how all you people who seem to think a 1st ep is = to a entire anime series, seem to also gloss over the fact, that even when a 1st ep is great, it sure as hell Isn't a indication the rest of the series is or is even the direction the story will take. Remember anime like Sengoku Basara, what a great 1st ep, shame basically the entire rest of the series sucked. Oh yea, lets not forget the shitstorm that is SAO. Hell even when a series doesn't go to shit, the first ep has little to nothing to do with a anime most of the time. Take Moribito Guardian of the Spirit for instance, the 1st episode is epic, and implies It's going to be a epic wuxia series, but that's not how the series plays out at all, it instead plays out as a pure sol, very little drama, no tragedy to speak of, and next to no action... The 1st ep Isn't very representative of the anime 1 bit, and if someone didn't like very deliberately paced sol anime, they would hate it, even though they loved the 1st ep. In cased where there Isn't a prelude, studios love to attempt to turn a 1st ep into a glorified trailer, and most of the time, that's all the 1st ep is. Do you buy video games just based off stupid CG trailers? I certainly hope not. There's so many different types of story telling, that even negates a fist episode mattering at all(and at very least, not by its own anyway), you first ep people just outright ignore all the nuances, and changes of a story. Here's another example, Spice and Wolf has a very average 1st ep, nothing special here, and I assure you the last thing people would expect, is a extremely intelligent sol, that goes into old world trading, in such super high detail. This is a prime example of a anime being way better then the 1st ep too. ect, ect, ect, ect. Now back to rewatching Victorian Romance Emma, a anime that while has a pretty good 1st ep for a sol anime ingeneral, sure as hell doesn't indicate that the series would end up being this great. Good thing I don't judge a anime on just the 1st ep :) Every episode is important. If it isn't, it shouldn't exist. Else it just wastes 20 minutes of my life. I don't judge an anime based on the 1st episode. Few episodes are as good as the whole series. Still, a lot of first episodes tell me a lot about how a series is going to be. Many great shows had attention-grabbing first episode that lay down a lot of great ideas they'll develop. Important in telling the full story/painting a complete picture, perhaps yea, but important as in "especially good", no. There's reasons why, in story telling, there are things called climaxes, you can't expect an entire story to be a climax, and frankly most, if not every story would suck, if that were the case. |
ZoltorSep 28, 2016 2:45 PM
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Sep 28, 2016 10:58 AM
#163
kamisama751 said: After the first episode you can basically see in which direction the show is heading qualitywise. You said: fuck that shit, drop is for the WEAK!! Masochism all the way, hm? That's called completionist duh #hardwork #dedication O shit u have AA? Never know that before. |
Sep 28, 2016 11:06 AM
#164
Sep 28, 2016 11:10 AM
#165
kamisama751 said: just open the goddamn app and notice the curator who is replying to your comment fukboi XDYou said: kamisama751 said: After the first episode you can basically see in which direction the show is heading qualitywise. You said: fuck that shit, drop is for the WEAK!! Masochism all the way, hm? That's called completionist duh #hardwork #dedication O shit u have AA? Never know that before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA Which AA do you mean? I assume "Attitude Adjustment, a wrestling move used by John Cena". xD |
Sep 28, 2016 11:20 AM
#166
I know deciding not to watch an anime after only seeing first ep is wrong but I can't help it. There are so many anime which I've only seen first episode of but can't find myself to continue. I don't bother even adding them to my list :I |
Sep 28, 2016 11:30 AM
#167
In many instances I could see this being the case, as the first episode often sets the overall environment of what the entire series is going to offer. Though with more anime than one, I've come across series that started off with promise to me, but eventually turned out to be 'not so good' of a series. However, opposite to this would be those anime series that start off with nothing overly special about the anime itself, but then coming into the second season, the anime somehow becomes quite good. This was the case with me for The World God Only Knows. In general though, the first episode often paints a distinct picture of what the overall season (or the series itself as a whole) is going to be like. |
Sep 28, 2016 11:36 AM
#168
Zefyris said: no it's not. that was never the case and will never be. -You can definitely see tendencies for things like animation quality, music, cast quality, that kind of things. Usually those things are either consistent during the show or downgrading as the shows goes on, not upgrading. -For the quality of characters, plot, you cannot see a thing. Not. a damn. thing. Not a single one. So if that's what matter to you, you cannot judge anything from the first episode. Not even that much in fact, by 3 episodes as well. -For the quality of script and storyboard, that kind of things isn't handled by the same persons during a whole show so the bad quality of one episode doesn't necessarily transmit to the following ones, so useless as well. This is because of that kind of shitty belief/behaviour in the anime/manga community that shows and manga try desperately to attract /catch the viewever attention in one chapter/Episode, resulting in breaking the narration structure, in premises of a story that the author cannot even handle afterwards (so all that was interesting happened in the first part, basically, after that nothing interesting to see) and that in reverse authors who still choose to build their story properly and steadily don't sell and don't go until their end, effectively resulting in half assed endings. Thanks a lot, seriously. That's one reason for which novel >>> anime. Novels are sold with the whole volume so the authors have plenty of time to catch the reader's attention in 300-1000 pages. SO they never had to lower themselves to the crappy methods the anime medium use in order to sell. disagree, you won't see full value of characters in first episode but can get a solid impression of the level of characterization you can expect - you can't judge how dynamic a character is but you can get a strong impression of their depth from a small number of their interactions and most novels that sell well do have immediate surface appeal from the beginning in some way |
Mayuka said: did you call holier than thou bitch right here last.fm |
Sep 28, 2016 11:40 AM
#169
kamisama751 said: You said: kamisama751 said: You said: kamisama751 said: After the first episode you can basically see in which direction the show is heading qualitywise. You said: fuck that shit, drop is for the WEAK!! Masochism all the way, hm? That's called completionist duh #hardwork #dedication O shit u have AA? Never know that before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AA Which AA do you mean? I assume "Attitude Adjustment, a wrestling move used by John Cena". xD Holy shit. A moelitist is traumatizing Annie may Amino. A true elitist likes moe and don't drop annie may. |
Sep 28, 2016 1:15 PM
#170
Zoltor said: TheBrainintheJar said: Zoltor said: TheBrainintheJar said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: I don't see why people have strict rules for these kinds of things, I merely drop shows based on how much they test my patience. Yikes, you really should come up with some kind of rules. I really hope you're understating your analyzing/testing process, because if not, I'm scared to ask how many crappy anime you end up watching a lot of, before figuring out, that It's a really crappy anime. I'm not saying I have no analyzing process in dropping things, usually it's how many times the show annoys me in some way before I feel it's no longer worth continuing, which usually happens within the first episode or so. I just don't see why people have these strict 3 episode rules, and the like, it seem arbitrary to me. Oh ok. Well the 3-4 rule, is a min amount that should be seen before making a decision, as the 1st episode usually has no baring on the rest of a series(unless It's like a comedy or straight up romcom, as they pretty much always stay consistent throughout the series, and they're not about story telling), doesn't mean such a rule limits you to such, you can definitely watch more if you feel a specific anime needs more time. This rule exists for a reason, It's to avoid dropping/writing off a potentially great anime, due to jumping to conclusions. The fact is most anime/stories in general change quite a bit after the "opening act", so to say(and that's just most anime, that doesn't even count special case anime, that either start off with a prelude or involves a lot of world/character building). I guess I'm just more fickle than others, I'd rather watch a show that manages to pique my interests quickly, one that shows signs of getting better soon, or at the very least one that doesn't instantly irritate me. Also I don't think I miss out on much by dropping things as I wish to, I've never totally written off a show, and I'm open to going back to one for whatever reason. Length is also something to consider, if a 12 episode show takes 1/4 of its total running time to get going, that really questions whether it's worth it. Yea naturally a 12-13 episode show, would require the suspension of such a rule, not to mention usual standard requirements ingenal(such is only for a quick fix, and you can only hope for so much from such anyway). @TheBrainintheJar My condolences then, because very few even high end anime, have anything better then just a meh/ok 1st ep. Digimon Tamers, Medabots, Denou Coil, Shinsekai Yori, Tatami Galaxy all had attention-grabbing and great openers. If a storyteller is good, they can tell a good story in 20 minutes. That's not true, there's a reasons movies are rated on a completely different scale, then series are. Also I love how all you people who seem to think a 1st ep is = to a entire anime series, seem to also gloss over the fact, that even when a 1st ep is great, it sure as hell Isn't a indication the rest of the series is or is even the direction the story will take. Remember anime like Sengoku Basara, what a great 1st ep, shame basically the entire rest of the series sucked. Oh yea, lets not forget the shitstorm that is SAO. Hell even when a series doesn't go to shit, the first ep has little to nothing to do with a anime most of the time. Take Moribito Guardian of the Spirit for instance, the 1st episode is epic, and implies It's going to be a epic wuxia series, but that's not how the series plays out at all, it instead plays out as a pure sol, very little drama, no tragedy to speak of, and next to no action... The 1st ep Isn't very representative of the anime 1 bit, and if someone didn't like very deliberately paced sol anime, they would hate it, even though they loved the 1st ep. In cased where there Isn't a prelude, studios love to attempt to turn a 1st ep into a glorified trailer, and most of the time, that's all the 1st ep is. Do you buy video games just based off stupid CG trailers? I certainly hope not. There's so many different types of story telling, that even negates a fist episode mattering at all(and at very least, not by its own anyway), you first ep people just outright ignore all the nuances, and changes of a story. Here's another example, Spice and Wolf has a very average 1st ep, nothing special here, and I assure you the last thing people would expect, is a extremely intelligent sol, that goes into old world trading, in such super high detail. This is a prime example of a anime being way better then the 1st ep too. ect, ect, ect, ect. Now back to rewatching Victorian Romance Emma, a anime that while has a pretty good 1st ep for a sol anime ingeneral, sure as hell doesn't indicate that the series would end up being this great. Good thing I don't judge a anime on just the 1st ep :) Every episode is important. If it isn't, it shouldn't exist. Else it just wastes 20 minutes of my life. I don't judge an anime based on the 1st episode. Few episodes are as good as the whole series. Still, a lot of first episodes tell me a lot about how a series is going to be. Many great shows had attention-grabbing first episode that lay down a lot of great ideas they'll develop. Important in telling the full story/painting a complete picture, perhaps yea, but important as in "especially good", no. There's reasons why, in story telling, there are things called climaxes, you can't expect an entire story to be a climax, and frankly most, if not every story would suck, if that weren't the case. I don't think a story can be all-climax. It would lose its effectiveness. Tonal and pacing shifts are necessary to maintain that and interest. But by 'important', I mean that the episode will contribute something to the bigger picture. It won't just have things happening, but has a meaningful significance. The first episode of Medabots doesn't show its philosophy, but it's a great introduction of its two main characters and that's why, even on its own, it's a great episode. |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Sep 28, 2016 3:29 PM
#171
Sora_no_Umi said: There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... Let me look at my profile for a sec.... oh, I have 471 anime completed....Your argument is invalid. |
Sep 28, 2016 3:41 PM
#172
CapitalistGod said: I more or less agree. There's just so many anime out there, it's impossible to have enough time to watch them all. But I like to give a one episode rule where I try atleast one episode to see if it hooks me. Of course there are numerous issues with this, most notably with longer anime series since the first episode will most likely be a sort of tutorial with a slow but steady rise. A show that needs building up or relies on tonal shifts are just exceptions to the rule and from the first episode alone, more often than not... you'll have a rough idea of what you'll get from a show. This also applies both for critical viewers and those who watch purely for enjoyment. Well, do you agree? or disagree? Also, I say this having over 30% of my dropped list being dropped in or after the 1st episode. Haha! In general though, for anime up to 24 to 52 episodes, I think this is a good philosophy to follow. |
Sep 28, 2016 3:45 PM
#173
Sora_no_Umi said: memenime aside, There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... - the 3 episode rule is often criticized (and by often i mean in this other thread by op) - as seen in post #29 which i suggest (re)reading, anyone that watch enough anime will become better at judging from the first episode + whatever information you know before watching (not the opposite where did u get that impression lol) |
Sep 28, 2016 4:45 PM
#174
Most shows tend to not change as much from when you began them but rarely, does a show seem to get even more interesting as you go on. |
Numbuh 3, you've got to get off the couch, you cannot sit in that tree house, girl you like Rainbow Monkeys so grab your little shit and then swing! Hand tracks be tracking me to different doorways. In a maze, and I don't know what to do. Guaranteed though, Ima find the emeralds. |
Sep 28, 2016 4:49 PM
#175
Digibro doesn't even say they scale. Just that it's rare for a good show to have a bad premiere. Good shows can have generic premieres (Hunter x Hunter and Eva imo), but it's tough for a premiere one dislikes to turn into a show one likes. For some reason people think this about Steins;Gate, but it had a good premiere so idk. |
Sep 28, 2016 5:02 PM
#176
It really depends on the show. For some animes the first few episodes can be seen as a high point (looking at you SA:O) and some of them can be seen as something to get through because you aren't used to it or because they are very slow that nothing gets accomplished or feels like there is anything (honey and clover is one that comes to mind). Its rarely representative of the final product though especially if there are any huge plot twists or turns that throw you off in the series. |
Sep 28, 2016 5:05 PM
#177
I somewhat disagree, though this is more in the case that good animes tend to take 3+ episodes before turning out great. Some can take even 10 or more episodes to get to the good parts. So no, the first episode is not necessarily a good indicator on the overall quality of the anime. But generally after several episodes one should have a good enough impression to decide whether to continue the show or not. |
Sep 28, 2016 7:13 PM
#178
No, not at all. I dont see the "3 episode rule" as ironclad either, but thats much more of a safe bet than to say 1st episode is a win or lose for the entire series. I thought Taboo Tattoo started out pretty strong for the first episode, but the rest of it was just complete garbage. I thought the first episode of Re:Zero was kinda meh, I was expecting it to be like Konosuba since I had just finished it right before. Now Re:Zero is #1 on my top favorites list and will probably stay there for quite awhile. |
Link10103Sep 28, 2016 7:16 PM
Sep 28, 2016 7:59 PM
#179
My gosh! I did check your dropped list. Nah, not really. I also have a friend like that, but for me you may have missed some good anime. Sometimes it depends upon the style of author that's why many would be hooked on episode 1. There are some anime that will give you that impression but may give you a twist while the episode continues. |
atKatlinSep 28, 2016 8:06 PM
Sep 28, 2016 8:03 PM
#180
I disagree. Remember Gintama? In my opinion, it was boring. I thought I could say it's good by the first episode, but as I continued, I loved it. Haven't added it to list yet. |
Sep 28, 2016 8:15 PM
#181
romagia said: Sora_no_Umi said: memenime aside, There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... - the 3 episode rule is often criticized (and by often i mean in this other thread by op) - as seen in post #29 which i suggest (re)reading, anyone that watch enough anime will become better at judging from the first episode + whatever information you know before watching (not the opposite where did u get that impression lol) ya it's true that you can get better at judging with more experience, but I feel like, especially with recent anime seasons, that the whole premise vs execution thing becomes more relevant. what i mean by that is it might have really good premise and gets executed horribly, or the plot becomes stagnated and pointless, leading to cliche usages and/or plot armors. Personally, I usually just watch until I have a pretty solid idea of what's happening, but I find that just watching the first episode is hard to have a concrete idea of what will happen Of course, I could be retarded and just need a bigger sample size to reach a conclusion, but that's just me. CapitalistGod said: Sora_no_Umi said: There's the three episode rule for a reason...wtf op, have you onl seen like 5 anime? Anyone that watch enough anime would use their common sense to reach the conclusion that te first episode indicates nothing of the anime... Look at sao and re:zero... Let me look at my profile for a sec.... oh, I have 471 anime completed....Your argument is invalid. Well if you can judge the quality of an anime just based on the first episode, then that's a godlike ability... My biggest problem with judging from only one episode is that sometime it have good premise, but the director/author gets stagnated and doesn't know how to keep up with previous expectation and the whole anime goes completely to shit. I find that watching about 3 episodes-ish can give a pretty good sense of how far the story can go with its setting and ideas, but most of the times, since first episode are mainly used to dump exposition (of course with exceptions of some anime), it's kinda hard to grasp how the story might develop. |
Sep 28, 2016 9:51 PM
#182
jal90 said: Its a qualitative statement on the quality of the episode based on a curve. There is no possible way to grade an episode quantitatively because many episodes are created for different purposes. A pilot episode has to have a higher level of quality to be green lighted on television and to keep viewers tuned in to watch the next episode. The first impression is often what determines the success of a television show and the same is true in Anime.¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿? Do I have to remind you that your original premise was "the pilot always tends to be one of the best episodes in the show"? Of course most of these are good. That's beside the point. |
Sep 29, 2016 12:23 AM
#183
15poundfish said: jal90 said: Its a qualitative statement on the quality of the episode based on a curve. There is no possible way to grade an episode quantitatively because many episodes are created for different purposes. A pilot episode has to have a higher level of quality to be green lighted on television and to keep viewers tuned in to watch the next episode. The first impression is often what determines the success of a television show and the same is true in Anime.¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿? Do I have to remind you that your original premise was "the pilot always tends to be one of the best episodes in the show"? Of course most of these are good. That's beside the point. I find that you can rate episodes individually, but episodes aren't songs on a music album. They're directly tied to the big picture and, by nature, don't sit too comfortably on their own. So I don't expect every episode of a great anime to be great. I just expect it to keep moving the ideas forward. |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Sep 29, 2016 8:03 PM
#184
Most people disagree, but I always thought One Piece was good from the start! Even if the story and characters, and animation..kinda..maybe..not, got better from that point on until it really picked up steam. And to pick up steam on volume 8 of 82 is pretty good. |
ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Sep 29, 2016 8:13 PM
#185
There are some shows that have a deteriorating effect, like the studio blows a good chunk of funds on the first episode, generally to hook and get the viewers interested, but as the show progresses, you'll note drops in quality, while it may not effect the story heavily, it can and does effect ones personal enjoyment. This meaning you can't judge visual quality by the first episode. Tokyo Ghoul, Taboo Tatoo and Magi are some examples. Then on the other hand, there are shows with just completely misleading or wasted potential after the first episode. Kotoura-san for example always comes to mind when I think of good first episode that was misleading for the rest of the show. A dark and heartbreaking first episode about a young girl being abandoned by her family and everyone around her because of her ability all within the first episode only to turn into another happy going romcom the next and to make it worse, the problem gets resolved in a matter of minutes in another episode. All that build up from the first episode wasted, like, dafuq. |
Sep 29, 2016 8:33 PM
#186
CapitalistGod said: My drop list is about the same. One can get the feel/style of an anime in the first episode. That's usually enough for me to determine if it might be worth watching or not.Also, I say this having over 30% of my dropped list being dropped in or after the 1st episode. Haha! |
Sep 29, 2016 8:41 PM
#187
CapitalistGod said: A show that needs building up or relies on tonal shifts are just exceptions to the rule and from the first episode alone, more often than not... you'll have a rough idea of what you'll get from a show. This also applies both for critical viewers and those who watch purely for enjoyment. Well, do you agree? or disagree? Also, I say this having over 30% of my dropped list being dropped in or after the 1st episode. Haha! i actually agree... unless its a really popular anime like steins gate which i knew started off slow then picked up.. if i watched 3 eps of anime no matter if i liked the quality or plot so far it would add up so fast and i would end up wasting alot of time.. :[ |
Sep 30, 2016 2:51 PM
#188
Paul said: Then on the other hand, there are shows with just completely misleading or wasted potential after the first episode. Kotoura-san for example always comes to mind when I think of good first episode that was misleading for the rest of the show. A dark and heartbreaking first episode about a young girl being abandoned by her family and everyone around her because of her ability all within the first episode only to turn into another happy going romcom the next and to make it worse, the problem gets resolved in a matter of minutes in another episode. All that build up from the first episode wasted, like, dafuq. I think that Kotoura-san's whole deal is to convey that no matter how tragic your past can be, you can still be happy. Although it's heavily romanticized. Also, considering that it only happens for the first half of the first episode, it's not really misleading at all. In fact, the second half clearly shows what I'm talking about. |
Sep 30, 2016 2:58 PM
#189
CapitalistGod said: Paul said: Then on the other hand, there are shows with just completely misleading or wasted potential after the first episode. Kotoura-san for example always comes to mind when I think of good first episode that was misleading for the rest of the show. A dark and heartbreaking first episode about a young girl being abandoned by her family and everyone around her because of her ability all within the first episode only to turn into another happy going romcom the next and to make it worse, the problem gets resolved in a matter of minutes in another episode. All that build up from the first episode wasted, like, dafuq. I think that Kotoura-san's whole deal is to convey that no matter how tragic your past can be, you can still be happy. Although it's heavily romanticized. Also, considering that it only happens for the first half of the first episode, it's not really misleading at all. In fact, the second half clearly shows what I'm talking about. I do recall a part of the first episode already showing off the typical romcom scenario but the way the show portrayed it made you think there might be more to it than just that, but sadly it wasn't. I think it would have been far better if it was shown as a flashback in a later episode instead of just starting off with it. If it did, I probably wouldn't even have high hopes for it and just enjoy it as another romcom show with a character who gets revealed to have a bad childhood. |
Oct 10, 2016 11:53 AM
#190
sasalx said: No it's not and Steins;Gate is the biggest example for this.That's why there is a rule called "3 episode rule." You just can't expect to see plot with it's full glory by only watching one episode. Bullshit. I loved Steins Gate from the very beginning. If something would make me hate this show in first episode/s I wouldn't be able to like it later. Something opposite - I hated ngnl from the very beginning and it wasn't changed in next episodes. To be more precise - it changed to be a lot worse than 1st episode. In 90% cases I can tell if I want to watch something or not after 1st ep. If I'm irritated by something in 1st episode, then it most likely won't change in future (direction, type of humour, type of MC etc). And if I'm not able to like characters, direction styles or humor type, then it doesn't matter if plot gets better in the end of the show. I don't want to lose my free time to watch something which I just don't like. |
rsc-plOct 10, 2016 12:03 PM
Dub = fake crap. Always. |
Oct 10, 2016 11:57 AM
#191
based on the first episode you can't tell if it will get rushed or drop the quality so i would disagree with this. I mean Cheer Danshi for example was not that bad at the start but it become bad later. |
Oct 10, 2016 12:07 PM
#192
Tbh, that only works for people that are very strict and demanding of quality in plot/story and execution, as opposed to the majority that are more concerned with their personal entertainment...People like that are very meticulous when analyzing the entire episode and can easily spot the kinds of things that will remain unchanged throughout the whole show... So yeah, that method won't work for most people... |
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
Oct 10, 2016 1:28 PM
#193
@rsc-pl Woah slow down.Just because you don't someone's opinion doesn't means you can call it bs. rsc-pl said: sasalx said: No it's not and Steins;Gate is the biggest example for this.That's why there is a rule called "3 episode rule." You just can't expect to see plot with it's full glory by only watching one episode. Bullshit. I loved Steins Gate from the very beginning. If something would make me hate this show in first episode/s I wouldn't be able to like it later. Something opposite - I hated ngnl from the very beginning and it wasn't changed in next episodes. To be more precise - it changed to be a lot worse than 1st episode. In 90% cases I can tell if I want to watch something or not after 1st ep. If I'm irritated by something in 1st episode, then it most likely won't change in future (direction, type of humour, type of MC etc). And if I'm not able to like characters, direction styles or humor type, then it doesn't matter if plot gets better in the end of the show. I don't want to lose my free time to watch something which I just don't like. Btw this is bullshit. |
Oct 10, 2016 4:02 PM
#194
rsc-pl said: sasalx said: No it's not and Steins;Gate is the biggest example for this.That's why there is a rule called "3 episode rule." You just can't expect to see plot with it's full glory by only watching one episode. Bullshit. I loved Steins Gate from the very beginning. If something would make me hate this show in first episode/s I wouldn't be able to like it later. Something opposite - I hated ngnl from the very beginning and it wasn't changed in next episodes. To be more precise - it changed to be a lot worse than 1st episode. In 90% cases I can tell if I want to watch something or not after 1st ep. If I'm irritated by something in 1st episode, then it most likely won't change in future (direction, type of humour, type of MC etc). And if I'm not able to like characters, direction styles or humor type, then it doesn't matter if plot gets better in the end of the show. I don't want to lose my free time to watch something which I just don't like. I actually only watched the first 8 episodes of S;G and enjoyed it thoroughly. Many people talk about how amazing it is because it builds up, but it sounds silly. Just because it takes its time before going fully wacko doesn't mean it can't build characters or show amusing situations. |
WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Oct 10, 2016 4:06 PM
#195
More like a good indicator for whether the show is for you or not. Exceptions just disprove the rule. |
Oct 10, 2016 5:56 PM
#196
HyperL said: Tbh, that only works for people that are very strict and demanding of quality in plot/story and execution, as opposed to the majority that are more concerned with their personal entertainment...People like that are very meticulous when analyzing the entire episode and can easily spot the kinds of things that will remain unchanged throughout the whole show... So yeah, that method won't work for most people... But, but... some people can have a meticulous approach with their personal entertainment(or rather they're hard to please). |
Oct 10, 2016 6:16 PM
#197
CapitalistGod said: HyperL said: Tbh, that only works for people that are very strict and demanding of quality in plot/story and execution, as opposed to the majority that are more concerned with their personal entertainment...People like that are very meticulous when analyzing the entire episode and can easily spot the kinds of things that will remain unchanged throughout the whole show... So yeah, that method won't work for most people... But, but... some people can have a meticulous approach with their personal entertainment(or rather they're hard to please). I woudn't put much faith on that...When people watch purely for enjoyment, what often entertains them a eventful episodes...But there are many first episodes out there that focus on introducing the characters and premise, and not much else happens, then the plot only really starts on the second episode or something...So I really doubt you can decide how much the whole show will entertainm you on the first episode...I'd recommend them to at least watch the second episode to see if things become eventful and entertaining by then... |
You are not your body, you are your brain, the "self" that emerges from within it. |
Oct 10, 2016 6:20 PM
#198
I have a five Episode rule... 1 episode is just not enough to grasp onto in order to draw a fair conclusion of an opinion as many things can/cannot changes over the space of 20 minutes |
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