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guntrix said: While this episode (and the whole series for that matter) are not bad by any means, I fail to see it becoming a memorable series on the levels of Clannad or Angel Beats. Not even close imo. Well, yeah. Angel Beats' soundtrack, short story, few bits of decent drama, and fluffy animation make it more accessible than the good parts of Refrain that take so long to get to. Angel Beats doesn't actually pack any memorable story qualities, though, sadly. If Kyousuke's farewell isn't considered to be as memorable as Hinata jumping in to fulfill Yui's simple wish for a husband, or for a group of guys who have barely known each other in the afterlife to have their farewells in Angel Beats, or for a shoehorned melodramatic sudden romantic departure between Otonashi and Angel Beats while Lia screams sad music in your ears, then it's obviously because of Angel Beats' animation. But then I guess, the animation is part of the show. Doesn't really matter anyway, since Angel Beats is just a lesser developed version of Little Busters that becomes many people's first show because of its simplicity and accessibility. Sadly, people don't remember the uniqueness of a story, but they remember shows for their fluffy animation and scenes that stick out regardless of how well they were built up. If you felt like Angel Beats was memorable and Little Busters wasn't, well, you're still essentially getting Maeda's recycled story ideas and themes from the Little Busters visual novel redelivered in Angel Beats, so it just says that your taste would've naturally aligned with a properly produced Little Busters anime. Honestly, even lumping Angel Beats into the same tier as Clannad is laughable. |
Vladz0rDec 24, 2013 4:08 PM
guntrix said: So if I rate Angel Beats higher it's because I'm falling victim to Maeda's recycled story ideas of a lacklustre show? Could it not be because you and I are different people and therefore have different tastes? No. You're falling victim to Maeda's recycled ideas from the Little Busters visual novel, that turned into this lackluster show as a result of JC Staff's poor handling. It's whatever. I wish this show had turned out better and just try to come up with some ways to defend the story quality, and using the fact that Maeda rehashed ideas into Angel Beats from the original Little Busters VN (which is far better than this anime) just says that conceptually, the ideas he presents are something that are still appreciated anyway, even if this anime failed to convey them. |
fauzty said: Refrain yourself from hating J.C.Staff, please. We are all aware of that fact that it is animated by J.C. Staff, from the very beginning. In case you don't know, we all know that fact. Well, Warner Budgets and the lack of Nagai and Fumihiko are what I actually hate. Oh, and Tonokawa. He sucks. |
Ol-Hybrius said: Angel Beats! is far superior than Clannad for me, even though it's only 13 episodes. I may be subjective since it's my first anime, but Clannad is the second I watched, so... I dunno, the only girls I like in Clannad (Tomoyo and Kyou) aren't very developped and I find the AB! cast better. It was funnier for me and the ending made me cry while Clannad only made me sad for Tomoya. Clannad's true end is also worse than AB!'s last seconds in my opinion. The thing that I value friendship story more than family's may have something to do with my judgement as well. This again proves that it's just a matter of opinion. XD I know and heard people who think Clannad or Kanon are the most superior. Angel beats too, despite it cut short from 24 episodes to 12 episodes because of tsunami (bad luck, so it would've been an amazing anime). I can see a remake in the future after it's visual novel is released in the future. There are people I know that even thinks Little Busters' ANIME is superior surprisingly that hasn't read the VN beforehand. They must of been able to connect a lot with the characters. I know nothing about Air and the other small visual novels though. |
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| Not gonna respond to the rest of stuff, because it'll result in a circular discussion, but... MagicFlier said: I know nothing about Air and the other small visual novels though. Air is longer than Kanon. It was KyoAni's first Key adaptation and it was too short, hence its weak reception nowadays compared to other Key works. |
| Bus incident like in this series just happened not to long ago in my country. Heart ache. Last episode, can't come any sooner. |
| Last week was better drama wise but this episode explained what happened. Questions is what happened to Riki after seeing what happened in the bus, looks like he needs to be cheered up now or at least face reality. Guess Riki and Rin need each other now explaining why Kyousuke wanted them to be a couple. Sad to see what happened to the other characters tho. |
Vladz0r said: Not gonna respond to the rest of stuff, because it'll result in a circular discussion, but... MagicFlier said: I know nothing about Air and the other small visual novels though. Air is longer than Kanon. It was KyoAni's first Key adaptation and it was too short, hence its weak reception nowadays compared to other Key works. I figured something was left out of AIR. Man that anime made no sense. |
| Finally, Riki and Rin is back to the real world. Can't wait to see how will this end. |
| Not seeing a problem here. I don't WANT the anime to end of the bad ending. That's why they call it a BAD ending. |
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| The problem is that the girls' farewells don't even lead into the bad ending like how they did in the VN. I felt nothing because I felt like it was shooting straight to the true ending. The girls in the anime were also pretty weak, and the flashbacks felt hollow and "fake" except except for maybe Kurugaya's, which really felt great, believable, and in-character. It's like when they make the girls appear like in the end of episode 11, they do a weak job of it and I just don't even believe that they're supposed to be the same girls I've come to love, from the VN or the anime. Anyway, the next episode looks a lot better so far. Preview: http://i.imgur.com/riDJEWI.png |
| Finally got some time after Christmas to watch newest episode and... Oh. As usual, don't know how to feel about it. No 'bad end' scene, which, well, just WAS really important in the game. But on the other hand, Rin's development was shit in this series, probably every other girl had more than her. She just barely started this episode. Rin's one of my favourite female characters EVER, but while watching the anime I feel like I barely know her :/ That's just awful. I can't think of Riki and Rin as a couple here, sigh. Still, when commenting only the anime, I guess it wasn't bad or anything. Scenes with girls were good. It IS kinda funny though, Riki is sleeping in front of the bus and uhm, nothing it going to happen? Well he better wake up fast anyway. |
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| It's not that they're not in character. It's just a sort of weird feeling of emptiness when the girls appear. I don't think it was actually bad in that scene, but it's a sort of feeling with the girls appearing so much in episodes 11-12. It feels like they're around more than they should, and that it's all just to milk the emotions out of them more. I think it's the sort of feeling that when Kengo broke down harder in episode 9 because of JC Staff's changes, I didn't feel his breakdown in episode 11 nearly as much. The girls appearing twice in episode 11 sort of changed how I reacted to this episode. The biggest part for me was that this didn't feel like it was a last farewell. It really loses value on rewatch because of Rin's Super Saiyan powerup at the end. Anyway, some people think that Rin comforting Kengo in episode 11, not being mindbroken, not saying lines out of character like "Where did the two idiots go?" and "Kengo hugged me" (out of no where) make her better so much of a better charcter. I feel the same as Kitsu-nee, honestly. There's so little of all the great comedy from Masato, Rin, and even Kengo in Refrain, that I don't feel connected to her even as much as in the VN. Being less annoying because now she's not quite as traumatized didn't make me feel closer to her. I already understood that those lines were because of her misunderstanding, and I didn't feel like "Wow, Rin, you're a fucking idiot." I felt more sympathetic for her not understanding what's going on. Anyway, can't wait till this shit's over. |
| Yep, I guess it is just beyond you ;) |
| Well, I know that many people disliked Rin for being the canon heroine, but oh well. It was the point of the game that their romance was so fragile, it was just the begining for them after all. It might seem to be forced, but it was believable. They still acted more like friends, but shared some sweet moments at the same time. And they STILL had so much more development. Uhm, in the anime living together lasted one song. Rin taking care of Miles? Pfft, deleted. Not that it was one of the major scenes in her route, LOL. |
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| I would trade either of those scenes for more believable friendship with Komari. Which is what I was given. Now Rins character in the VN had more events for sure, but she also had a different personality.To me, now she feels more well rounded if you know what I mean. Unfortunately the original story didn't given two shits about Rin so even if she is more well-rounded it doesn't help quite enough. |
hyperknees91 said: I would trade either of those scenes for more believable friendship with Komari. Which is what I was given. Now Rins character in the VN had more events for sure, but she also had a different personality.To me, now she feels more well rounded if you know what I mean. Unfortunately the original story didn't given two shits about Rin so even if she is more well-rounded it doesn't help quite enough. Rin was more of a plot device then Koshiki Miyuki who is the best girl |
| Lawl it's sad but true. |
| @planetarian Miyuki not being a fleshed out character was another gripe I had with Little Busters. It would've been cool to see done if there was time and budget to cover a lot of the source material's issues. Things like Rin's lack of character development and Miyuki being saved by Kengo repeatedly are some issues that are ignored because of how the repetitiveness of Little Busters worked as a strength for its believability. I never questioned Rin, because she was around for so long, she has two routes, she's the childhood friend, Kyousuke's sister, etc. @MCAL Those are some great points from the common route development. I think the ideas were definitely a step in the right direction. My issue is that the pacing doesn't feel like the shift in focus towards the main 5 LBs gets fully established in the anime. Simply being around Rin for a while in her route and in Refrain had me care quite a bit for her, despite her not having the well-rounded personality where she dynamically interacts with the heroines. I think the girls' parting thing was more of a way for the player to feel for losing the other girls rather than for us to feel Rin losing the other girls. It even feels like Kyousuke's plan to make Rin stronger was a side thing, and that Maeda focused more on Riki because the player is Riki, after all. In terms of creating KEY enjoyment, I think development for Rin wasn't a priority, and amusing people with Rin's comedy scenes was sufficient for her simple role in Refrain. Sadly, this would transition pretty badly to anime, since Refrain focuses on the bros, and Rin's main development is her gradual recovery. But yeah, with the types of good characters changes they've done with Rin, it would've been great if Little Busters could've had more budget to adapt more scenes overall. There are slow paced common route episodes that spend an ENTIRE episode on small things like Kud's roommate episode, the test of courage, saving the cafeteria, etc. I know some of the episodes like the Sasami letters and Secret missions are important to Rin's development, but damn if they could've incorporated a lot more nice scenes from the VN, there could've been a more solid attachment to the heroines, maybe. Rin and Refrain, of course, I'll always ask for a more fleshed out and slower pace. The amount of time we get for the bros just isn't enough. The show shoving Secret foreshadowing down the audience's throat could've been held off if they could've fleshed out the events better and made them more genuinely engaging and enjoyable to watch. So yeah, the development feels better, but the attachment still feels short. I would've liked to see more girl time akin to episode 15. I also think that the parting of the girls should've flashed back to some in-anime scenes in order to recall Rin's interactions with the heroines, because something like Rin and Mio talking together feels out of the blue. But yeah, that's another result of the episode limit. There could've been more buildup of emotional and more memorability here. It feels like Rin's believability as a character surpassed Maeda's original work through these changes in the anime. Seeing how flawed some aspects of Little Busters are in its transition to anime would be cool to work off of for a remake, but it feels like the anime and VN both have some great aspects that each other are missing. I fret that we'll never get a true all-in-one wholesome experience in regards to fleshing out all the Little Busters. (aka a remake, because I'd love to see someone work off of these great ideas) Err... I wonder if I should've posted this in the VN discussion. I'll repost it, not like my post count is getting any lower, anyway... |
| Omg you can't do this to me! D; How can you end an episode like that? >< *snif* dem feels, I want to see the final episode already T_T |
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| Honestly while i think JC STaff has done a great job and this series is going to get a 10/10 from me, i agree it should have been a whole lot better, and its kinda weird because JC staff has shown that it can make great anime's....... Aka Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo and Toradora, yet they couldn't quite pull it off here :/ |
| Sigh... JC Staff: A Team- good directors, good producers, good budget, good scriptwriters B Team- shit directors, shit producers, shit budget, shit scriptwriters Little Busters got B team directors and budget, but is somehow pulling through because of occasionally bursts of budget and decent scriptwriting. The scriptwriting is sometimes thorough and the screenplay is detailed, but sometimes they totally drop the ball with whatever the hell they're doing and forget to include basic things that would make the drama a lot better. Plus, the episode count and amount of content per episode is lower than it needed to be. You can't make up for 20 hours of common route spent with Komari and everyone with a mere 3 episodes preceding her arc, for example. The CR eps are slow paced too because they don't have the budget to animate a lot of scenes every episode. Just look at the test of courage, save the cafeteria, Kud roommate, Puppet Show, Sasami confession episodes. Most of those events could've been done without taking up an entire episode. I don't think the episode itself actually having a plot based around larger events quite makes up for how dragged out and slow paced it gets. As for the comedy/drama's actual execution and animation... I won't even get into that right now. Oh, and many of the characters are high pitched as fuck and annoying. Most of them lost any sort of charm they had in the VN through the poor voice directing. They're not top tier seiyu that sound great regardless of voice directing. Jun Maeda directing the voice actors much better for the most part. Kengo and Kyousuke's VAs are the few exceptions, because Midorikawa has spent thousands of hours voicing Kyousuke over the years, and Kengo worked hard for his Refrain scenes. Yui Horie's Riki is also pretty good at times in Refrain, definitely more believable for the farewell segment. But yeah, my love for Masato, Haruka, Kud just completely died in the anime, sadly. I'm still surprised they even have a fanbase from this adaptation. Haruka just pops up like a squeaky weasel going "Nani nani?!" when she was almost Kurugaya-level charming with her voice quite often. Kud's voice is less smooth and more of a high pitched squeal as well. Still, Refrain miraculously pulled through. I still can't believe episode 11 has 93% 5/5s, because I expected it to barely exceed 80% and not be taken seriously because of the lack of buildup. The fact that it got an 8.35 already is even more baffling. If this hits 8.50, I'll eat my hat. |
Vladz0rDec 27, 2013 9:34 AM
| Whatever. It's because I liked how the source material made the characters more charming, and other people never saw anything besides Refrain as anything special, so I don't really care what they have to say about the characters being close to the original. At the least, Masato in the anime fucking sucks, and isn't cool or lovable. I've gone back and forth between the anime and the VN and seen the anime plenty to know how annoying he is. Key did the voice directing better for making the girls more charming. My arguments about the annoying voice changes and simplification of the comedy, and them stretching out the episodes into slower paced long term events that fun aren't unbased. I couldn't care less about the test of courage having some "larger purpose", be it a reference for Riki and Rin's fears or whatever. It's great that they tried to give it some sort of purpose for you, I guess. The fact that I can bash so much shit in this show just proves how disappointing it was. It'll always be considered the black sheep among Key works, and when I recommend a favorite show to friends, I can't even recommend Little Busters because they won't enjoy it or they'll never finish it, so I just wind up recommending Clannad. I've had better success recommending the VN than I have the anime. Every time I think about a show to recommend people, I have to lean away from talking about this show that represents a story I really loved and felt engaged in. I seriously can't even say that this show is "good enough" when recommending the show to even a casual watcher and get them to like the girls or the bros is so hit or miss. I'll continue to bash it because I'm more upfront about the issues with this adaptation than most of other people here. |
| That bus crash was absolutely brutal. Rin's become such a strong person. I'm really going to miss this show when it ends tomorrow. |
| @fauzty I wasn't saying I didn't like the common route. I love the common route and heroine routes. I was implying that you and others have no clue what made it so good in the VN, since you seem to think the anime is up to par. It's running through the motions. "The Little Busters are seen having fun with each other on-screen, so it's the common route." "Girls are getting their problems solved in the show, so it's supposed to be emotional." |
Vladz0rDec 28, 2013 3:15 AM
| dunno why you all cant just accept some people like it and some people don't, instead of arguing about it all the time *rolls eyes* |
| Dem Komari feels ;_; |
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| Meh, the recent drama relies to much on recap-ish scenes imo. Not a bad episode, but i just don't feel it. Most emotional arc for me was the one about Kurugaya. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| What is a "true endings"? I remember reading earlier in this forum about Clannad: Afterstory having a "true ending" or something. |
| @UsaraDark Clannad spoilers: In Refrain in the VN, there are multiple endings as well, and JC Staff chose to do the true end without showing the normal ending first. KyoAni adapted both endings for Clannad's After Story arc. In the second season, the normal end is episode 21, and the true end is episode 22. So yeah, there's one ending to the Refrain anime, but people wanted there to be two endings, despite it being magical on the lines of Clannad's ending. (Except Refrain's true ending didn't feel like as much of an asspull) But yeah, the true end is often a sort of happy ending, or something that ties the story together in some way. Sometimes it's just the "fated" story route according to the writer, or the canon storyline. It depends what who's writing it and how they choose to go about their endings. And this thing usually applies to visual novels and their adaptations. Oreimo did this sort of thing with the OVAs following season 1, though. The OVAs have the "true end" of the story, and the first season itself ended at an alternate ending, an alternative choice by the MC. |
Vladz0r said: @UsaraDark Clannad spoilers: In Refrain in the VN, there are multiple endings as well, and JC Staff chose to do the true end without showing the normal ending first. KyoAni adapted both endings for Clannad's After Story arc. In the second season, the normal end is episode 21, and the true end is episode 22. So yeah, there's one ending to the Refrain anime, but people wanted there to be two endings, despite it being magical on the lines of Clannad's ending. (Except Refrain's true ending didn't feel like as much of an asspull) But yeah, the true end is often a sort of happy ending, or something that ties the story together in some way. Sometimes it's just the "fated" story route according to the writer, or the canon storyline. It depends what who's writing it and how they choose to go about their endings. And this thing usually applies to visual novels and their adaptations. Oreimo did this sort of thing with the OVAs following season 1, though. The OVAs have the "true end" of the story, and the first season itself ended at an alternate ending, an alternative choice by the MC. So a true ending was what the visual novel or anime was made for, and for Clannad's case, it was to tell the story of Nagisa and Tomoya. I have yet to check out the visual novel of Little Busters, but I think I get it now. Thanks! |
| Yep yep. The true end goes at least a step beyond the other endings. |
| This felt really lame and pretty cliché. Kyousuke's scene in the previous episode was well done and had some impact, but this made me durp all over the place. Hopefully I can give this at a decent rating in the end... Q_Q |
I almost never read discussions after I made my post, if you want to reply PM me or post on my profile page. |
| For the last time I warn everyone : Watch out there's many ninjas with onions xD After next ep ended... I want to see LB! EX... Soon... Especially Sayaaaaaa xD |
"Signature removed"   |
| Rin Is so strong now. I'm so pleased with the character development. |
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| Go Rin and Riki! Save everyone! There's still chance! |
| Kyousuke has prepared them well returning to the real world For Riki having a narcolepsy is convenient again followed by Rin coming back to the scene of accident The crying that lacked previously came for Rin now Mio Nishizono made a valueable appearance and Komari shined at the end The bus would have been burst in flames by now with the time that went by |
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