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Moekou said: It's true that Kiritsugu's words ring true for the real world. However, one thing you either forgetting or are unaware of is that this is a world where there IS an afterlife that weighs your chivalry and honor, or lack thereof. Avalon, Valhala, whatever you want to call it-an afterlife for people that live heroic lives exists. In fact, this "dream of dying heroes" is literally what powers Saber, not in terms of willpower but in actual weaponized form. Thus, in this universe, it DOES in fact matter whether you fight honorably or cowardly. How does it matter? Caster was a terrible person before he died, granted he wasn't always like that especially when he was with Jeanne. Also assassins character, wouldn't be considered a "honorary" fighter. In the show, significant figures over time are given the option to become a heroic spirit, just like (DONT CLICK THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN Fate stay night or unlimited blade works) Anyways, I didn't like the way Lancer went out, but that's kinda the trend for being a lancer in this world LOL. You have to agree with kiritsugu though, Saber's ideals are not realistic at all. |
| You gotta love Emiya's pragmatism in the battlefield... Like back in that first fight between Archiblad and him. Bringing down his insanely magically reinforced building? Amazing :p I really like those types of characters. |
Linkark07 said: A part of me loved this episode, another part of me hated what Kiritsugu did to Kayneth, Sola and Lancer. Poor Lancer-kun, he was treated like scum, he was betrayed by his master and in the end he couldn't even finish the fight he promised to Saber. It was sad seeing him go that way. And then Kiritsugu making Maiya kill Kayneth and Sola. Kiritsugu really is a monster who will do anything for get his hands on the grail. I bet if Saber wasn't bound by a contract she wouldn't have minded to kill Kiritsugu right away. I don't think Kiritsugu made Maiya do anything. As she convinced Kotomine in S01.E08, she's all in. As an aside, I wonder if she's supposed to end up with Kiritsugu. |
| Another amazing episode Too bad Lancer had to die in such a way, What's going to happen to Iri, don't die yet please! |
BloodRequiem said: Hydnlife said: Yo this Shit was Raw, the way lancer being betrayed like that by his master and the humiliation that went along with it he just wanted an honorable dual was that to much to ask?, Sola Didnt deserve getting her Hand Cut off and kill i mean Kayneth deserved it but she didnt, Man Kiritsugu is one cold motherfucker the mind game was kinda tight "i cant kill you but she can shit was to cold" 10/10 actually she deserved to die more than kayneth since it was she who started all this jealousy shit between them Sola-ui was set up with Kayneth by her family in an arranged marriage. She never loved him. She fell in love with Diarmuid, which I don't really think was such a terrible a thing for her to do, especially since all it'd take is for her not to willingly resist his enchanted mole. Becoming obsessed with Diarmuid to the point that she'd twist one of Kayneth's fingers until it snaps off to get Diarmuid's command seals? Yeah that was pretty fucked up, but Kayneth couldn't feel it and again she's under the influence of Diarmuid's charm. Stack that up against Kayneth's coldblooded murder of Risei in this episode alone and he was clearly more deserving of his fate than Sola in my mind. |
TopgunUKApr 22, 2012 12:50 AM
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| if you can really hate, trully hate a character, then its a great character, kiritsugu its a hero, a guy so good that he turned evil to continue doing good, just plainn epic, now more than ever, one of my favorites poor lancer, his dying curse is gonna be my walpaper...XD |
| Being a fan is like having a penis. Its nice to be proud of it But don't pull it out in public and wave it in other's faces Kyurem Black. Kyurem White. Together they are Pretty Kyurem. |
dio_brando86 said: Yumekichi11 said: stAtic91 said: Is it possible for someone to copy and paste the parts omitted even if from the LN. I would like to read them.And the BD version will be even better since it will most likely have a few cut scenes. For example, it seemed like part of Kiritsugu and Saber's talk was gone since they suddenly teleported from the corpses of Kayneth and Sola-Ui to the car, where Irisviel was standing. Here's the whole conversation: woah wall of text is that really neccessary? anyways I have no pity for Kayneth and Sola. They both are manipulative and ruthless, but Kiritsugu just outplayed both of them XD |
zzzeallyApr 22, 2012 1:26 AM
| Gen Urobuchi being Gen Urobutcher... I'm raving for more depressing Sunday. 5/5 |
| I was rather disappointed with season 2... Until this very episode. Reality vs Ideal and so forth. I'm glad I continued watching Fate/Zero |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
yaHzee said: Moekou said: It's true that Kiritsugu's words ring true for the real world. However, one thing you either forgetting or are unaware of is that this is a world where there IS an afterlife that weighs your chivalry and honor, or lack thereof. Avalon, Valhala, whatever you want to call it-an afterlife for people that live heroic lives exists. In fact, this "dream of dying heroes" is literally what powers Saber, not in terms of willpower but in actual weaponized form. Thus, in this universe, it DOES in fact matter whether you fight honorably or cowardly. How does it matter? Caster was a terrible person before he died, granted he wasn't always like that especially when he was with Jeanne. Also assassins character, wouldn't be considered a "honorary" fighter. In the show, significant figures over time are given the option to become a heroic spirit, just like (DONT CLICK THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN Fate stay night or unlimited blade works) The Grail was corrupted in the third war. Assassin was due to a particular ruling implementation, not natural selection. Also, members of the Ḥashshāshīn were often religious martyrs and can certainly be called Muslim heroes-they were willing to give their lives for their belief, and followed their society's code of honor. *avoids shameless Assassin's Creed references* By theory only true heroes can be called forth. This is why the cast made a big deal out of characters like Caster in Fate/Stay Night and brought up the Grail's corruption. |
| I am so shaken up... Seeing Diarmuid die like that.. OH GOD.. That shame and humiliation he felt seethes through me. I hate Kiritsugu, despite the fact that he was right in doing what he did, in order to achieve the Grail and since the end for his path had only to turn out that way... The means he used, disgusting. Strategically, yes, his execution of his powers of logic were to the core perfect, but... I stand by Diarmuid and Saber's right to chivalry. God.. he was scary... Diarmuid was scary while he wept his rage.. It seems that the fate of those legendary heroes come to a cyclic close. Their ideals remain the same, and their desires to salvage themselves of their past remain unfulfilled.. ..and the tear in Diarmuid's eyes when Kayneth shames him for not taking care of Sola.. It made my heart stop a beat. |
KundaliniApr 22, 2012 2:02 AM
| _____ _ _ ______ Within pain, there is desire. _____ _ _ ______ |
Topgunuk69 said: BloodRequiem said: Hydnlife said: Yo this Shit was Raw, the way lancer being betrayed like that by his master and the humiliation that went along with it he just wanted an honorable dual was that to much to ask?, Sola Didnt deserve getting her Hand Cut off and kill i mean Kayneth deserved it but she didnt, Man Kiritsugu is one cold motherfucker the mind game was kinda tight "i cant kill you but she can shit was to cold" 10/10 actually she deserved to die more than kayneth since it was she who started all this jealousy shit between them Sola-ui was set up with Kayneth by her family in an arranged marriage. She never loved him. She fell in love with Diarmuid, which I don't really think was such a terrible a thing for her to do, especially since all it'd take is for her not to willingly resist his enchanted mole. Becoming obsessed with Diarmuid to the point that she'd twist one of Kayneth's fingers until it snaps off to get Diarmuid's command seals? Yeah that was pretty fucked up, but Kayneth couldn't feel it and again she's under the influence of Diarmuid's charm. Stack that up against Kayneth's coldblooded murder of Risei in this episode alone and he was clearly more deserving of his fate than Sola in my mind. he prob wouldnt have shot risei if sola didnt do what she did having yourself crippled and your finacee taken away can mess alot with your sanity |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Great episode! Lancers death was very well done. Nice to see Kiritsugu finally showing his true colors as well. Heh. I had actually forgotten how stupid Kiritsugus wish for the grail was. |
| Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you. |
| And this is why Kiritsugu is SO much better than Shirou. I simply love the bastard! =P |
| Awesome Episode..... Kiritsugu is the fucking awesome....... 5/5 |
 |
Mauno said: Production team when the 2nd season started: 'Oh my god, we have only 13 episodes left and this many servants and others to kill. We'll have to keep it two deaths minimum per episode.' :P Anyways loved the episode. Kiritsugu is badass. that is what happened in the book so... |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| This show. THIS SHOW. Best episode since episode 11 of the first season. Lancer's death was unbelievably tragic. He couldn't even get an honorable battle with Saber. Meh Kiritsugu. He's cold, ruthless, and calculating, but he's too one-note for me, despite his strange - and almost out of character - outburst over Kirei quite a few episodes back. Kirei's always been more fascinating to me, in his wildly unpredictable ways. Even Gilgamesh has a soft spot for him, and he barely acknowledges anyone. Anyway, I wonder how he'll react to Risei's death. |
| Holy frack. I'll be honest, I didn't like 1st and 2nd episode. But this one...this one was pure gold. Flawless. Kiritsugu is damn great. He's complete anti-hero. Somehow, after all this episodes, Kirei is still most interesting. I look forward to clash between these two, and it's bound to happen. This episode returned my fate(no pun intended :P) into fate/zero, I just hope they keep up with this quality. |
sugarcane said: What a twist of fate.. totally didn't see that Lancer's death would end up like that. Kiritsugu is such a hypocrite. hows he a hypocrite when he said that he will use any means possible to achieve victory hes the end justifies the means type saber on the other hand is the true hypocrite in episode 15 she doesnt tell lancer about her ability to defeat caster which prolonged the fight risking the lives of the people of fuyuki when she claims that she upholds chivalry and wants to save the people |
| As a child, I was told that society is a melting pot of talents; knowledge and experience combined to form important alloys that will contribute to mankind. When I got to highschool, however, I thought that it's more like a river in which the water represents our peers while we ourselves are the stones in the river. Constant erosion by mindless majority sheeping has made us lose our unique edge. After I hit the age of 18, I realized that I've been wrong all along. Society is no melting pot. Society is no river. Society is a person, a very skilled rapist, and he has fucked us all. |
| Poor Lancer :/ |
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| Lancer died :| And without even having a proper battle TT_TT This cant be happeneing. Curse you Kiritsugu !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
 |
| Excellent, gripping episode. Kiritsugu is a cold, ruthless bastard but he has a point. War is hell. There is no such thing as a glorious war, specially if you're on the losing side. While his methods are completely reprehensible, his logic is sound. I'm really looking forward to getting a backstory from him in this anime. It should be interesting to say the least. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| However I look at it - the best way the grail could grant Kiritsugus wish is by destroying humanity. He really is the last person who should be allowed to claim it. |
| Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you. |
| Someone's had a bad day: (Large-ish screenshot) |
| So this episode show us the real nature of Diarmuid he was bothering us by sayin' he wants to put he's live as a knight and ready to die for his master But when the time comes to fulfill he's duty and saves one live of his master family ,He's just become a mad and change into evil spirit , I really doubt that he just wants to fulfill he's knighthood , In other hand Saber can understands kiritsugu's point of view , But kiritsugu can't understand her and that show us who is the right ,Saber couldn't say anything yet she's recognize that her master is sought for justice too. |
| oh poor lancer ;__________; |
| I'll always facepalm at how much insult Lancer accepts. He should be my master in anger management xD But DAMN at the end of his life... THAT'S why ppl shouldn't keep it all in. He pretty much cursed everything xD I do wonder though, did he snap towards Saber as well? He was looking at her at some point. I'm sad he had to die like that though. Everyone deserves their last wish. Or at least let him have a good fight. His 180 degrees change wasn't that much of a surprise as a finally explosion of feelings. Peace Lancer! V |
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| i'll be getting nightmares tonight |
| THIS SHOW IS SO EPIC! キタ━━━\(゜∀゜)/━━━!!!!! |
| What Emiya did to Kayneth and Sola and Lancer... Damn I hate him... Still I love Saber and Iri :) I hope she is ok... |
 |
WildEagle- said: Dude, read up on the Tale of Diarmuid and Grainne. In life he was literally forced into escaping along with his Master's fiance in great part due to his curse (that any woman who looks at his love spot will fall in love with him), and I say forced because Grainne forced him into compliance. After much tribulations his foster father intercedes to earn him pardon from his Master. Fast Foward and the vengeful Master invites him on a hunt, in which he's attacked and mauled by a Boar. Water drank from Fionn's hands was said to heal any man's wounds but Fionn would literally let it slip every time as he made fake attempts at saving his life, hence letting him die.So this episode show us the real nature of Diarmuid he was bothering us by sayin' he wants to put he's live as a knight and ready to die for his master But when the time comes to fulfill he's duty and saves one live of his master family ,He's just become a mad and change into evil spirit , I really doubt that he just wants to fulfill he's knighthood , In other hand Saber can understands kiritsugu's point of view , But kiritsugu can't understand her and that show us who is the right ,Saber couldn't say anything yet she's recognize that her master is sought for justice too. Now Diarmuid died betrayed just for one betrayal he didn't even wanted to do. Now Kayneth did what again? Yes, he FORCES DIARMUID TO KILL HIMSELF. In other words he dies betrayed AGAIN, by oponents he once thought of as honorable (remember he doesn't survives long enough to learn Saber had no part on the plan). I say he has more than enough reasons to turn into an spirit full of enmity and hate. |
 |
| so who's next going to be kill? |
| It's interesting how people feel knee-jerk hate to different characters each episode without knowing their back story. I bet Kirei will be the next hated character after next week's episode. |
Subby said: It's interesting how people feel knee-jerk hate to different characters each episode without knowing their back story. I bet Kirei will be the next hated character after next week's episode. definitely! |
Subby said: It's interesting how people feel knee-jerk hate to different characters each episode without knowing their back story. I bet Kirei will be the next hated character after next week's episode. I pretty much loved every character, but whatever reason Emiya had it's not ok to kill not only Lancer (it's his fault) but Kayneth too, after promising freedom... That moment when you feel happy and suddenly realize it's trick... Come on... |
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Leon-Gun said: WildEagle- said: Dude, read up on the Tale of Diarmuid and Grainne. In life he was literally forced into escaping along with his Master's fiance in great part due to his curse (that any woman who looks at his love spot will fall in love with him), and I say forced because Grainne forced him into compliance. After much tribulations his foster father intercedes to earn him pardon from his Master. Fast Foward and the vengeful Master invites him on a hunt, in which he's attacked and mauled by a Boar. Water drank from Fionn's hands was said to heal any man's wounds but Fionn would literally let it slip every time as he made fake attempts at saving his life, hence letting him die.So this episode show us the real nature of Diarmuid he was bothering us by sayin' he wants to put he's live as a knight and ready to die for his master But when the time comes to fulfill he's duty and saves one live of his master family ,He's just become a mad and change into evil spirit , I really doubt that he just wants to fulfill he's knighthood , In other hand Saber can understands kiritsugu's point of view , But kiritsugu can't understand her and that show us who is the right ,Saber couldn't say anything yet she's recognize that her master is sought for justice too. Now Diarmuid died betrayed just for one betrayal he didn't even wanted to do. Now Kayneth did what again? Yes, he FORCES DIARMUID TO KILL HIMSELF. In other words he dies betrayed AGAIN, by oponents he once thought of as honorable (remember he doesn't survives long enough to learn Saber had no part on the plan). I say he has more than enough reasons to turn into an spirit full of enmity and hate. He's former master betray him for nothing more than a revenge , But kayneth for the sake of his wife , The wife of his master that he couldn't save her , Lancer sure were aware of that kayneth forsake him for sola's live under kiritsugu mercilessness,And He's for sure knows that Saber like him never know that would happen according to her attitude in episode 8 Lancer knows that kiritsugu isn't like saber like kayneth and him , I guess for a knight Die for the sake of your master family is a honor , To be honest I don't know what he want First I was believe he want to fulfill his knighthood in the aspect of the master that he couldn't fulfill with his former master , But die for your master like this should fulfill what he really wants but he just tricking himself in what he really wants after see the death again |
| OKAY - Loads of epic things went down in this episode but what made my day was Kiritsugu's lecture - Thank heavens somebody shut Saber and the now departed Lancer up. There is no glory on the battlefield - and there is no honour in a conflict where two people resolve to take each other's lives. PRAGMATISM: 1 ROMANTICIZED CHIVALRY: 0 |
the_trainman said: Kayneth was better? Please... His constant insults towards Lancer... Killing Kirei's old man so no other master would get command spell (even though Risei was tricky bastard too, but still) Gilgamesh would show hell to Kayneth if he was his servant lmao Yet he was call kiritsugu "Rat" because his utilize the machines and he's use it to Kill Risei , where's the dignity of magus ? |
WildEagle- said: the_trainman said: Kayneth was better? Please... His constant insults towards Lancer... Killing Kirei's old man so no other master would get command spell (even though Risei was tricky bastard too, but still) Gilgamesh would show hell to Kayneth if he was his servant lmao Yet he was call kiritsugu "Rat" because his utilize the machines and he's use it to Kill Risei , where's the dignity of magus ? What both of you said is true, but what Emiya did is no better... |
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basabeo said: Lancer.. :/ That was just sad. Why does my favorite character always have to die in these things. I knew he was going to die.. didn't think it would be so brutal.. *cries* He and Saber are my favorite characters. The way he died reminded me of Unlimited Blade Works where the other Lancer was also ordered to commit suicide by Kirei, I think. What Kiritsugu did here was cruel!!! Even though that's what this anime is all about, I still think he shouldn't have gone that far. I wished Lancer stayed a bit long in the second season ;( |
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WildEagle- said: the_trainman said: Kayneth was better? Please... His constant insults towards Lancer... Killing Kirei's old man so no other master would get command spell (even though Risei was tricky bastard too, but still) Gilgamesh would show hell to Kayneth if he was his servant lmao Yet he was call kiritsugu "Rat" because his utilize the machines and he's use it to Kill Risei , where's the dignity of magus ? He was no longer a magus at that point... |
| Whenever you correct someone's grammar just remember that nobody likes you. |
akutasame94 said: WildEagle- said: the_trainman said: Kayneth was better? Please... His constant insults towards Lancer... Killing Kirei's old man so no other master would get command spell (even though Risei was tricky bastard too, but still) Gilgamesh would show hell to Kayneth if he was his servant lmao Yet he was call kiritsugu "Rat" because his utilize the machines and he's use it to Kill Risei , where's the dignity of magus ? What both of you said is true, but what Emiya did is no better... Emiya do what he did in a point he do it for the sake of the world no matter what's a childish Idea it is better than someone do it because dignity the_trainman said: Xayoz said: He was no longer a magus at that point... That's true, but I think he would kill Risei in any case. He would have probably just used magic if he had't lost the abilities. Magus see themselves as a noble human begins ,mostly of them see the normal people as a trash , Bothering themselves and others by dignity , The look down at people because the use technology and find a kind of entertainment , For them if normal people live like the middle ages is better even if technology saves people make live easier it's aiming to the future , But magic aiming to the past no matter what if a magus with a dignity became a normal human he shouldn't utilize technology under any circumstance but for kayneth after what he says about magus nobility and when he insult waver for this , And now forsake it like a trash I dislike the term "Nobility" but when you look at another magus like tokiomi you find what's the nobility of magus is not kayneth . |
| This ep. Gives so many mixed feelings. |
| of all of the heroic spirits the most loyal one died in such a humiliating way. I respect him what he did , but yeah thats how kiritsugu does his job |
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| Ah, Lancer, too bad your glorious death turned into such a humiliating death... Also, when Emiya came up with that contract at Kayneth, I was like 'Not myself... Someone else will', and there was Maiya. Well done, Kiritsugu. I only think it is such a pity for Lancer. I really liked him. Even Sola-Ui, but not Kayneth. That conversation with Saber and Emiya was really nice in composition. Both Saber and Emiya hiding their faces with only Irisviel in the middle showing hers... |
| Dutch anime blogger with a love for Ikuhara's antics and proper storytelling. |
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