This show getting as popular as possible is the best possible thing for the anime industry

Apolygon2 said:
Love it or hate it, you can't deny that this shows production value, at the very least budget wise is so far and above what is considered normal.

Mappa has taken a risk by pouring so much into this. meaning if this blows up even more than what the they expected, more studios will realize that making extremely high budget adaptations of wildly loved sources is the way to go.

but for that to happen, this needs to more than just, as popular as other big shounen titles.

It shouldn't just be big, it should be the biggest.

that would be a lead to a new era of anime. anime has become bigger than ever, so the top of the market can be bigger productions than ever if we prove that it's worth it.


and don't give the "it's talent not money BS"

being able to afford 12 different endings and animating the shit out of the most unimportant possible scenes is not just talent. it takes time, man power and a lot of money.

not to say the staff aren't talented, but talent alone would not result in a product like this.

and that's besides the point of the producer himself saying he was going all out for the first time with this show.

Apolygon2 said:
Love it or hate it, you can't deny that this shows production value, at the very least budget wise is so far and above what is considered normal.

Mappa has taken a risk by pouring so much into this. meaning if this blows up even more than what the they expected, more studios will realize that making extremely high budget adaptations of wildly loved sources is the way to go.

but for that to happen, this needs to more than just, as popular as other big shounen titles.

It shouldn't just be big, it should be the biggest.

that would be a lead to a new era of anime. anime has become bigger than ever, so the top of the market can be bigger productions than ever if we prove that it's worth it.


and don't give the "it's talent not money BS"

being able to afford 12 different endings and animating the shit out of the most unimportant possible scenes is not just talent. it takes time, man power and a lot of money.

not to say the staff aren't talented, but talent alone would not result in a product like this.

and that's besides the point of the producer himself saying he was going all out for the first time with this show.

CreepHazard said:
Y'all not even understand what the OP was tryna say. He said all anime need a production like CSM and for that it needs to blow up

Apolygon2 said:
Love it or hate it, you can't deny that this shows production value, at the very least budget wise is so far and above what is considered normal.

Mappa has taken a risk by pouring so much into this. meaning if this blows up even more than what the they expected, more studios will realize that making extremely high budget adaptations of wildly loved sources is the way to go.

but for that to happen, this needs to more than just, as popular as other big shounen titles.

It shouldn't just be big, it should be the biggest.

that would be a lead to a new era of anime. anime has become bigger than ever, so the top of the market can be bigger productions than ever if we prove that it's worth it.


and don't give the "it's talent not money BS"

being able to afford 12 different endings and animating the shit out of the most unimportant possible scenes is not just talent. it takes time, man power and a lot of money.

not to say the staff aren't talented, but talent alone would not result in a product like this.

and that's besides the point of the producer himself saying he was going all out for the first time with this show.

Badguy_oncel said:
no lol, opposite will happen. The only thing that happens is crappa makes shit load of money, this is bad cause they'll take all the popular manga and make mess out of it.

Besides CSM will never surpass kny in japan and beating jjk is also not given. Heck it's not even the most watched anine in japan right now.

There's an high chance mappa will become madhouse 2.0

Apolygon2 said:
Love it or hate it, you can't deny that this shows production value, at the very least budget wise is so far and above what is considered normal.

Mappa has taken a risk by pouring so much into this. meaning if this blows up even more than what the they expected, more studios will realize that making extremely high budget adaptations of wildly loved sources is the way to go.

but for that to happen, this needs to more than just, as popular as other big shounen titles.

It shouldn't just be big, it should be the biggest.

that would be a lead to a new era of anime. anime has become bigger than ever, so the top of the market can be bigger productions than ever if we prove that it's worth it.


and don't give the "it's talent not money BS"

being able to afford 12 different endings and animating the shit out of the most unimportant possible scenes is not just talent. it takes time, man power and a lot of money.

not to say the staff aren't talented, but talent alone would not result in a product like this.

and that's besides the point of the producer himself saying he was going all out for the first time with this show.

Apolygon2 said:
Love it or hate it, you can't deny that this shows production value, at the very least budget wise is so far and above what is considered normal.

Mappa has taken a risk by pouring so much into this. meaning if this blows up even more than what the they expected, more studios will realize that making extremely high budget adaptations of wildly loved sources is the way to go.

but for that to happen, this needs to more than just, as popular as other big shounen titles.

It shouldn't just be big, it should be the biggest.

that would be a lead to a new era of anime. anime has become bigger than ever, so the top of the market can be bigger productions than ever if we prove that it's worth it.


and don't give the "it's talent not money BS"

being able to afford 12 different endings and animating the shit out of the most unimportant possible scenes is not just talent. it takes time, man power and a lot of money.

not to say the staff aren't talented, but talent alone would not result in a product like this.

and that's besides the point of the producer himself saying he was going all out for the first time with this show.

Apolygon2 said:


there are so many things wrong with this that I don't even know how to answer it.

so I will just say this.

if mappa becomes a studio that makes shit that looks like: sonny boy, death parade or one punch man s1, I will gladly take it.

Badguy_oncel said:
my man madhouse has been in decline since 2011 when all the talent workers left and went bankrupt.

The same chad studio which burned 1 million per each death note episodes is now doing shows like sonny boy and no guns no life which is nothing.

Mind you,it's fucking million dollars per ep in 2006. For comparison expensive shows like aot final season max out at 150k- 200k per episode, where bulk budget goes to cg.

One punch man was animated by extremely talented freelancer who went there own ways after s1, that's why s2 was done by Jc staff. Madhouse handling popular shows in near future is unlikely.

Their film "deadline" with 30million budget was a disaster which made only 7million

So please enlighten me where did I go wrong dear stranger

CreepHazard said:

The part where CSM is more popular than Deadline would ever be

Badguy_oncel said:
even opm was popular and it barely made profit. So your point kid?

CreepHazard said:

My point is OPM made profit, just not for the studio because it never single-handedly funded it, so most of it went to the production committee
Chainsaw Man on the other hand was funded entirely by MAPPA (OPs Point if you didn't understand) and therefore they reap what they sow

Badguy_oncel said:
first of all opm didnt make much profit, if it did then they would've given top tier production quality like aot s2.

Secondly since mappa has invested full, there are taking huge risk, they need to make lot of profit to break even their huge budget since they are the sole producers

CreepHazard said:
Y'all not even understand what the OP was tryna say. He said all anime need a production like CSM and for that it needs to blow up

RopeBuny said:
It’s like video games. Naturally a higher ans a smoother experience results in good success. That includes every possible element from art to music to even story.

BenStro said:
Totally disagree, absolute nonsense.

Anyone in their right mind would know that people like a high-budget adaptation of a loved source material. Chainsaw Man doesn't need to be popular for this to be known. It's just simple logic.

BenStro said:

This. Chainsaw Man doesn't need to be popular for this to be known. It's common sense, really.

CreepHazard said:

The poor production quality of Season 2 had absolutely nothing to do with the profit of season 1 OR its budget.
It was done by a J.C Staff, a studio not really known for flawless animation. If you think that it did, then you're fucking stupid
The core staff of season 1 and the director went their own ways as the first season caught up with the Manga up to that point and had to wait for more source material. Once it was available it was too late and hence a new core team and director were, and all the talented freelancers who worked on the first season like Arifumi Imai (probably busy working on AoT season 3 at the time), Yutaka Nakamura, Tatsuya Yoshihara, Keiichiro Watanabe, Toshiyuki Sato and Yoshimichi Kameda (a lot more prominent animators just check the staff list on MAL it's just too long) were gone.
It was like the biggest dream team for Sakuga arranged under the hood of MadHouse.
Season 2 couldn't bring even a fraction of the sheer animator prowess of season 1, and so it failed hard at the animation part.
As far as I know Season 1 and Season 2 had almost the same budget or even more because of the amount of actually GOOD CGI in it.
And my guy has the audacity to call me a kid bro doesn't even know how the industry works

Badguy_oncel said:

first of all opm didnt make much profit, if it did then they would've given top tier production quality like aot s2.

Secondly since mappa has invested full, there are taking huge risk, they need to make lot of profit to break even their huge budget since they are the sole producers

Badguy_oncel said:
"jc staff is not know for flawless animation"
Looks like the kid hasn't watched railgun index series. Watch more anime kid.

"One punch man s1 had talented freelancers who didn't return for s2 "
I literally said the same thing to other guy. It's not my fault if you have some reading issues.

I was talking about profit not budget kid. Production quality doesn't involve only budget. Why are you bringing up budget?
The main purpose of anime is to boost up manga sales. Now 30m is good but it's not anything extrodinary and anime in 2015 was still niche, people started recognizing anime only during pandemic time when they had lot of time to watch. Opm s1 was not a block buster hit.

Ofcourse there are exception like vinland saga and mob were passion triumphs greed

zarrapha said:
This idea of more anime getting ridiculous animation quality is stupid. With Japan running out of local manpower, they run to SMS like Twitter to scout for overseas talent. That should tell you how bad the animator shortage in Japan is. In fact, this has been what anime producers have been trying to do but they obviously fail. The reason why they fail is the fact that they expect such a high-quality production but still try to cut corners.

They don't give animators enough time, they severely underpay their animators and expect them to stay. They even expect experienced animators to fix the newbie animator's awful work but don't train them (understandably, because everybody's too busy with their responsibilities to help the newbie out). This ends up becoming a loop where the newbie animator is a burden to the production.

The better way of improving anime production quality without the cost of the animator's health is to copy the Kyoto Animation model. Reduce the amount of anime produced, try to be the top bidder in every production committee you're on, give your workers a proper salary, give your workers proper production schedules, pick the right anime to adapt, actually train your animators, that kind of stuff.

This kind of business model is hard to get, studios like MAPPA, Wit, and Production I.G are still trying to follow Kyoani's model.

CreepHazard said:

iirc MAPPA did start a program to train new animators and are already working on becoming more like KyoAni so progress is being made. Honestly the entire work system in Japan is just very extreme, not just anime

CreepHazard said:

JC Staff still isn't known for flawless animation. Railgun is pretty much the absolute peak of J.C Staff (except maybe Kazuma's hand in the Konosuba movie) and now compare that to the peak animation of MAPPA, Ufotable, KyoAni or former Madhouse. Absolutely average.
I don't have reading issues, not my problem if you forget things that you said and all of a sudden talk about profit affecting production quality like wtf.
Season 1 made a very good profit as it was extremely popular, and if you give the source for otherwise I'm willing to admit that it wasn't profitable. Even the Manga is in the Top 100 highest sales.

Badguy_oncel said:
again kid popular does not mean profit, anime sufferers from lot of piracy issues. They were already treading on dangerous waters after hxh and opm didnt help much. If it really made good profits they wouldn't have filed bankruptcy.

Top 100 means nothing for extremely popular shows like opm, it should have been in top 30 atleast. lmao shows like promised Neverland and gintama has more manga sales than opm, even vagabond with literally no adaption has 80n+ manga sales.

Nowadays every popular shonen shows reach at least 50m sales, I mean fucking tokyo revengers has 70m sales and that thing got shitty adaptation. Meanwhile your extremely popualr and "very profitable show" opm sits at 30m sales with paltry 1.1m sales per volume

CreepHazard said:

A major part of MadHouse was acquired by NipponTV in 2011, and almost completely acquired by 2014 (95% stocks) So HxH, OPM, Death Parade and all were after MadHouse saved themselves from the Redline disaster.
So basically OPM or HxH never accounted for their bankruptcy, it was actually the animators leaving that messed them up (remember OPM was animated by freelancers?) Afterwards their reputation just got worse and worse until now, and now they're just another studio.
Also if piracy were such a big issue why do we not see Demon Slayer or KyoAni projects falling apart due to it? Because they have better measures against piracy? (which we know they don't).

The top 100 might sound lousy until you figure out there's tens of thousands of manga out there. So yes the top 100 means it's extremely popular. Stuff like Demon Slayer only got there because the Anime boosted the manga sales a FUCK TON

Also that's just the manga sales, OPM is the 4th most popular show on MAL, JUST MAL. So yes it was pretty fucking profitable.

Still didn't get your 'not profitable' source for some reason.

Badguy_oncel said:
demon slayer is extremely popular in japan where it makes most of its revenue, hence bypassing the piracy issue. Aot and one piece is literally the most pirated manga out there, while one piece didn't get much affected, aot lost lot of sales in western world where they simply pirated. If not it would've hit at least 150m. The craze for aot was high outside japan which unfortunately meant it lost many revenue due to piracy

Secondly while ds got fuck ton of manga sales in japan OPM DID NOT, 30m sales for extremely popualr show that to an action shonen is just peanuts. Fucking gintama, a golden standard for underrated anime has more manga sales. LET THAT SINK IN.

You're just indirectly proving my point

Less sales= less profit= less producers interest.

No studio is going to release their performance, especially if bad, that's why you look at manga sales, that's how many analysts publish their report.

MAL popularity means nothing. Aot is the most popualr show but you and I both know shows like pokemon and naruto have more views considering they were released 12yrs prior to aot.

Kingdom is nowhere a popular show in mal but its already in its 5th season. why? Because its manga sales are pretty good and steady with over 80m sales. At least I hope now you'll understand how manga sales tell a lot about a series performance in most cases

BenStro said:
Totally disagree, absolute nonsense.

Anyone in their right mind would know that people like a high-budget adaptation of a loved source material. Chainsaw Man doesn't need to be popular for this to be known. It's just simple logic.

zarrapha said:
This idea of more anime getting ridiculous animation quality is stupid. With Japan running out of local manpower, they run to SMS like Twitter to scout for overseas talent. That should tell you how bad the animator shortage in Japan is. In fact, this has been what anime producers have been trying to do but they obviously fail. The reason why they fail is the fact that they expect such a high-quality production but still try to cut corners.

They don't give animators enough time, they severely underpay their animators and expect them to stay. They even expect experienced animators to fix the newbie animator's awful work but don't train them (understandably, because everybody's too busy with their responsibilities to help the newbie out). This ends up becoming a loop where the newbie animator is a burden to the production.

The better way of improving anime production quality without the cost of the animator's health is to copy the Kyoto Animation model. Reduce the amount of anime produced, try to be the top bidder in every production committee you're on, give your workers a proper salary, give your workers proper production schedules, pick the right anime to adapt, actually train your animators, that kind of stuff.

This kind of business model is hard to get, studios like MAPPA, Wit, and Production I.G are still trying to follow Kyoani's model.

AwokenStroken said:
Aspects of an artistic medium being successful is good for the mediums market success? woah

I don't see this as good, because of this we'll see more lackluster but flashy battle shonen :(

Tabibitosan_ said:
so what you're saying is.... More money needs to be invested in other studios. As if we don't have enough anime that are being carried by production quality, you want even more of them? That is certainly an opinion for sure.

Tabibitosan_ said:
so what you're saying is.... More money needs to be invested in other studios. As if we don't have enough anime that are being carried by production quality, you want even more of them? That is certainly an opinion for sure.

BenStro said:

This. Chainsaw Man doesn't need to be popular for this to be known. It's common sense, really.

CreepHazard said:

Less producers interest yet it's getting a third season

The manga is more popular than Pokemon and Evangelion which were extremely popular anime and made more profit than OPM itself. Also much less popular manga like Fire Force and Golden Kamuy are getting their 4th season which should mean that they're profitable, except their manga sales show the opposite. So no, manga sales aren't the best indicator for an anime's success. Blu-ray sales kind of are, however, and from that OPM S1 seems to be a healthy success and made a generous profit considering its average budget.

And I still did not get a source, a legitimate source.
Also how come you never mentioned manga sales when I previously asked the source? Sounds to me like you're completely in the dark here and just spitting nonsense.

Badguy_oncel said:
lol pokemon is primarily a gaming franchise, they dont give a crap about manga sales. 80% of revenue comes from games and card.

Fire force is getting third season and guess what the final volume is selling well.

Lmao golden kamuy is popualr in japan, they used golden kamuy in japan to promote fucking spiderman. As long as the show is popular in japan with dedicated viewers,they'll make sequels.

But guess what opm doesnt satisfy both the things. Its sales are not extraordinary and it's not popular in japan. Golden kamuy is way more popular in japan than opm.
Also you have streaming services now which was not that popualr in 2015. Blue ray sales doesn't mean anything now.

If you think opm was extremely profitable show then give me proof. My proof like I said is manga sales and how well it does in japan