Chisato is a terrible character.

StaleNut said:
If you think anyone's reading that, well you might wanna reconsider. This is a MAL forum, people don't care about your opinion, especially when it's so long and convoluted.

thunderkitten667 said:

According to Niconico, Lycoris Recoil is second only to Uncle from Another world, but only as of recently, since it has been number one for the past 11 weeks. Next time do your research?

GrimAtrament said:
so a character is bad because they have an character flaw and don't act like edgy power fantasy portagonist 1000? I get that people on mal don't like being reminded that they are flawed humans, but to bad we all have our flaws our hypocrites and we are not perfect. You call it a bad character I call it realistic.



never heard of it.

SaiyanGod_15 said:

IKR just your typical "It's Popular so let's hate it because it's the cool thing to do" bandwagon. I been seeing this with Bleach as well ever since It's Blood war arc was announced.

SkyhighCFC said:


God forbid a popular show receive criticism!

SaiyanGod_15 said:

Idc if a show gets criticism as long as it's constructive :P

chocomayu said:
*yawn* nice try, next person please

boku said:
fwiw, I think it boils down to whether her morals are 'no direct killing' or 'being a savior' (despite her saying it outright that she wants to be a saviour in the flashback in epi 9).

If it's the former, her actions are still consistent and in line with her morals and ideals. She doesn't care about the trolley problem, 'indirect killing' doesn't bother her all that much, and being repulsed to killing (like how she describes it at the aquarium in epi 4) just so happens to have an altruistic side effect and she's just not killing simply because she 'does what she wants', which is to not feel disgusted about having to kill someone.

If it's the later, her actions are inconsistent and not in line with her own morals and ideals. Which can be chalked up to either lazy writing or her being dumb and mixing 'no killing' with 'being a saviour'.

Still like Chisato though lol.

SkyhighCFC said:


Can't tell if you're being serious or not. Either way, it doesn't even matter. Because the fact is COTE has been the most watched anime this szn 🤷‍♂️

Secret333 said:


1. She could've shown even the slightest hint of seriousness rather than her "4 people died? eh, whatever"
2. She could've tried.
3. If Chisato went and planted a bomb and detonated it because she's sad, but no one died due to sheer luck and not anything she did, would you call that in character because nobody died?
4. Again, she could've tried. You see how Takina tried to hit him after he ran away. Something like that. And her not liking DA shouldn't have anything to do with capturing a terrorist.
5. She didn't give them any option, she just kicked them out and closed the shop down.
7. People took this line litteraly and fail to see the point behind it so they just say "she didn't die though" and think they responded. I know she's not dead. I say she doesn't die in the post. And I say that the only reason she doesn't die isn't because of Chisato stopping the woman, but just due to sheer luck on the side of Takina.
8. Until Mizuki and Kurumi pulled in with the helicopter and explained the situation, they didn't have any of that on their mind. And Chisato and Takina clearly think the rope gun is relieble since the left Majima alone after they tied him up. We, the audience, know it's not relieble by the end of the episode. The charecters do not.
9. You brought that up out of nowhere, saying that I don't think other dark things happened when I never said anything like that.

You know what? The points I raised do not matter to the show, because like I said, I don't think the writers are aware of them. We're not gonna get a scene where Takina asks Chisato "why the hell did you let her kick me out of a window possibly to my death?" because the writers don't think that's something that happened. And at what point do we have enough "nitpicks" to conclude that there's a problem with what the show tells us vs what we see?

animedude1287 said:


1: Well, she didn't, and that's just not who she is.
2: Tried what? You keep saying she could do something, but don't say anything about what she could do. Even if she took Majima's gun, she wouldn't use it cause it has live ammo. So, again they'd be at a stalemate.
3:Well, not seeing any more intelligent conversations from this point. You clearly don't know Chisato as she would never do something like this. Stop being so desperate to win this one.
4: Cause Takina has a gun on her, and Chisato doesn't. I'm starting to think you shut your eyes when you watch this.
5: I didn't say she gave them an option. This is just what she wanted.
7: But you still put the line down like this. So it's your own fault for putting it like that. She didn't die, and the only thing she did that you seem not to understand is a pull-up. Next time think before you put something like that down because people are just going to call you out on it.

Why would Takina ask Chisato that in the first place? Takina knows Chisato's gun is full of live ammo and won't fire it. Again, this just shows how little attention you pay to the show. Also, the show is good at showing us, and not telling us. While they aren't amazing, it's better than some animes I see.

animedude1287 said:


1: Well, she didn't, and that's just not who she is.
2: Tried what? You keep saying she could do something, but don't say anything about what she could do. Even if she took Majima's gun, she wouldn't use it cause it has live ammo. So, again they'd be at a stalemate.
3:Well, not seeing any more intelligent conversations from this point. You clearly don't know Chisato as she would never do something like this. Stop being so desperate to win this one.
4: Cause Takina has a gun on her, and Chisato doesn't. I'm starting to think you shut your eyes when you watch this.
5: I didn't say she gave them an option. This is just what she wanted.
7: But you still put the line down like this. So it's your own fault for putting it like that. She didn't die, and the only thing she did that you seem not to understand is a pull-up. Next time think before you put something like that down because people are just going to call you out on it.

Why would Takina ask Chisato that in the first place? Takina knows Chisato's gun is full of live ammo and won't fire it. Again, this just shows how little attention you pay to the show. Also, the show is good at showing us, and not telling us. While they aren't amazing, it's better than some animes I see.

GrimAtrament said:


to continue off this @Secret333

mostly for points 1-4

1. most people don't overly care when they hear about police deaths or just random deaths in general on the news. Literally most people i've seen go "oh no anyways." I've yet to see anyone break down on hearing about deaths of an unamed stranger. There is nothing they could have done about it. And Chisato hasn't been with most the Lycoris in years. So I doubt she would have been emotionally attached to any of them outside Harukawa, Fuki.

2.honestly the only thing she could have tried is leaving the room, but that could have lead to a worse situation since it would get civilians involved and she even managed to defuse the situation with Majima slightly before Takina arrived.

3. this is a strawman.

4. Chisato was unarmed Majima was armed, do you honestly expect her to take out a fully grown combat trained adult unarmed? whos being unrealistic now?

Secret333 said:


1. And I'm saying that's contradictory to what she is. I guess we can never see eye-to-eye on this one.
2. Lycorises are trained in close quarters. We see them fight with their fists multiple times through-out the show. You decided they're at a stalemate because the show tells you that.
3. Oh you don't see how that was a response to your pathetic argument of "nobody died so it's fine". Yeah no intelligence is here because you seem incapable of comprehending the very obvious point. The MC put people's lives in danger. It's so fucking simple yet you don't get it.
4. Nah, I'll help you out on this one. Takina didn't try because she had a gun. She tried because she saw a terrorist and had the normal reaction of trying to stop them. Doesn't have anything to do with having guns. And again, Chisato could try to defeat him in hand to hand combat since his gun is irrelevant to her.
5. "Chisato was just giving them the option. Again, I don't think she did anything wrong" copy-pasted from your previous response. And I know that's what she wanted. I never said otherwise.
7. You legit can't read can you? I told you I said Takina doesn't die. When I said she let Takina die, that's because to her, she has no reason to believe Takina would live after falling from that window. Again, you, and people who made that same response can't comprehend anything beyond the surface interpretation, can you?

If I thought someone was my dearest friend, and they didn't move a muscle to try and help me as a crazy lady is trying to kill me, I'd sure as hell ask them why they didn't do shit. And before you say "oh that's just you" no. I'm using "I" as an example of what ANY person would do. And funny you mention the gun with real bullets. Isn't that what she uses seconds later against Yoshi to save Takina? The problem is that the writers put the moral dilemma for Chisato in that scene, but she should've had that dilemma as the lady was charging at Takina. And as we saw with Yoshi, she could very well try to shoot the lady in her legs or somewhere where she wouldn't die. But she just didn't. She just let Takina drop from a building.

Unfortunetly, you started using insults instead of actual arguments, denying what you said one post ago, ignoring my arguments, and trying to end conversations with "stop being so desperate to win this one". That's just sad, man.

animedude1287 said:

And you don’t want to use anything for support. I’ve given reason after reason. You just don’t want to lessen. Your just as sad.

I think we’re done here.

Secret333 said:


1. Most people aren't Chisato. Most people don't go out of their way to make sure they don't kill people if those people are trying to kill them. Most people didn't swear to become a saviour since childhood. Most people don't think (as stated by Chisato herself) that their mission in life is to use their supernatural ability to help people.
For points 2-4. We know the Lycorises can take adult men in hand to hand combat. We see them do that multiple times in this show. But I guess poor Chisato can't do anything if the show just says she can't.
And I'm not exactly sure who you're saying strawmanned who for point 3.

Secret333 said:
I know fully well how many people love this character, so I am fully prepared to qualify that statement.
Full spoilers and a longish read ahead. You can skip to the last paragraph for a tldr.

If we first try to describe Chisato, she's an upbeat lycoris who used to work for the DA, now trying to find the person who gave her a second chance in life by replacing her weak heart with a mechanical one. She's the best lycoris ever, owing to her supernatural ability to dodge bullets that she had from birth, but she never wants to take away people's lives, so she uses non-lethal bullets, and goes out of her way to make sure the people she fights do not die, not even by friendly fire from their comrades.

Ignoring the mechanics of how anything I said above works, here are what I consider to be the moments that weaken or destroy her character:

1. Episode 6 starts with Takina telling Chisato that 4 lycorises lost their lives. Chisato's response to this is very careless, and it's clear she doesn't even give a shit. A moment later she's all smiles because "Takina is gonna live with me, yay!". A normal person would've had a more serious reaction to that, but Chisato should've had an even bigger reaction because of much she values people's lives, and she grew in the same environment that the dead lycorises grew up in. She recieved the same brutal training in her childhood, so the tragedy of their wasted lives should've hit her harder but no, no signs of fucks given here.
2. In episode 8 she talks with the terrorist that killed those 4 lycorises, tried to kill her two episodes ago, and massacred an entire police department who were all innocent people. We know he can't hit her with the gun, he even puts it down. Does she try to stop him? arrest him? anything? nope. he can just go away and enact his plan that leads to even more people dying. Great job Chisato!
3. In episode 9 she just straight up shoots at innocent civilians at a highway, making them lose control of their car. She's just very lucky that that didn't cause an accident that lead to them + anyone else on the road dying. Fucking Mizuki's reaction to this is also of someone who doesn't give a fuck about people's lives. "But she was dealing with a lot and she was sad at that time, that scene is there to show us that she's not herself" is a defense that someone might try. The problem is this betrays her character, her morals, and just normal common sense. I can't believe this needs to be said but you can't just shoot at people just because you're sad. And does she look back at this regretfully? nope. Zero introspection and zero acknowledgement that she endangered innocent lives. This scene reminds me of that deleted scene from Captain Marvel, if anyone knows that one.
4. Again in episode 9, when Kusonoki questions her on letting Majima go, her response is "it's not my job". Forget about what's ethical, forget about what any normal decent human being would've done if they knew someone is a terrorist and they have the ability to stop them. She gives the stupidest excuse I've ever seen and dumbass Kusonoki doesn't say anything to that.
5. In episode 10, when she finds out Mizuki and Kurumi are looking for a way to save her, she decides to close down the cafe because "I can't have you guys wasting time worrying about me". This is just selfishness. It would weigh too much on her conciouseness to have them there trying to help her, so she's just gonna force them to leave their lives in Japan and move countires on her whim. And the two dumbfucks don't even argue back against that. No speech about how much she means to them or any kind of friendship speech that actually would've been appropriate for that moment because those two are nothing but glorified plot devices.
6. This point is less of a character thing, I just wanted to point this out because it's funny. At the end of episode 11, when Majima is shooting at her and Takina, she uses her bullet proof bag to block the bullets. She did that a lot and blocked a lot of bullets, but 1 bullet just knocks the bag out of her hand and so far away it falls down out of reach. The bullet didn't even hit her hand. This is funny because had she not lost that bag there, she could've just blocked Yoshi's bullets in episode 12 when he was shooting Takina, effectively bailing her out of making the choice. I guess the writers realized this and decided that the best solution is: "uuhh she just loosens her grip on the bag and loses it. Genius!". This is just lazy writing at its finest.
7. Chisato let Takina die in episode 12. That's the truth. When that lady who works for Yoshi was charging at Takina to kill her, Chisato didn't try to stop her, which lead to Takina falling off the building. Chisato is just very very lucky Takina fell on a beam and was able to hold on to dear life when the expected scenario would be that she falls to her death.
8. Chisato let's Yoshi go free. He's the guy who funded the terrorists and lead to so many innocents dying, and tried to kill her friend, but no. He gets to go because she can't kill him. So she just can't tie him up with her convenient gun that ties people up? She can't go after him after she calmed Takina down? Nah because we let terrorist funders go free in this show.
9. The choice is bullshit. She fired a real bullet for once. Did she actually have to kill someone? No. We can't let the show be too dark so we're gonna bait the choice while having the show bail her out so now she can't learn or grow or develope in any meaningful way.
10. Majima fucking emptied a mag on her friends when they were standing in the elevator. They could all be dead if it wasn't for Fuki's quick thinking. How does she respond to that happening? She doesn't. She lets it happen and then confronts him with "Yo.". I have to assume this is planned and they're gonna do something together next episode but fucking hell, lucky none of your friends were hurt in this stunt, huh Chisato?

And all of this doesn't include her constantly shifting power levels, the uncharacteristic stupid decisions she makes, how she never wonders if people could've been saved if she killed Majima in the tower incident (The most obvious question she should be asking herself). But this thread is long enough already.

I made this thread because while I always criticized other aspects of the writing, I don't think I went too deep into characters because there was always the chance they'd develope in a good way. I don't see that happening with episode 13 but I would happily eat my words if it proved me wrong. Characters is usually the thing people point to for this show but the characters are as terrible as the rest of the show. This is a 2/10 show on a good day.

If you asked the writers to describe Chisato, I don't think any of the above would come up. It really feels like the writers ignore innocent lives and have no awareness of the implications of the decisions the characters make or do not make. But the unfortunate reality is this:

Tldr; Chisato is an extremely selfish, immoral character that can be as compitent or as incompitent as the writing needs. She doesn't want to kill people with her own hands, but gives no fucks about people dying if she's not holding the gun. She forces others to follow her whims and desires and they rarely question her. She has no compelling developement or struggle. Chisato is not a waifu bait because a jpeg of a random female character would be a better waifu than this horrendous disaster of a character.

GrimAtrament said:


no that would be Made in Abyss: Retsujitsu no Ougonkyou according to analytics also i am serious wtf is COTE?

MAL_mashu said:
I like Chisato, but I only like her as a pair with Takina. The two personalities really just balance each other nicely. I haven’t been this much of a fan of a yuri since Puella Magi.

SkyhighCFC said:


The show isn't really a yuri tho

SkyhighCFC said:


Source? If you're right about Made in Abyss being #1 I wouldn't mind. Because quite frankly it deserves it. But COTE is Classroom of the Elite. I'm shocked there are people who haven't even heard of it.

SkyhighCFC said:


The show isn't really a yuri tho

GrimAtrament said:

And? Chisato is still human not some omnimessah. Being human means being flawed. Actually quite a few do including myself i work at retail do you know how many gun threats, physicals violence etc that we experience every day? I still don't have a body count where I work despite how many times I've had to defend myself and I work in literally what are the city slums in one of the more dangerous states. maybe hard to believe, but most people don't think murder as the immediate thing to do when being attacked. many deaths from cases where the person defending themselves kills someone are usually accidental. The fact that you are going out of the way to not treating Chisato as a human is literally kind of what the shows talking about with the DA treating them like tools and not people with flaws and human emotions.

the fact that you omitted the combat trained part shows how shaky your argument is. not to mention that Majima was in a apartment complex I might add would have lead to civilian collateral. Chisato was right to prevent Taikna from chasing him at that moment especially since Majima himself was not engaging in combat.
on 3. you are creating a hypothetical situation where you want to get a one sided answer thus it is a strawman because it's irrelevant since it never happened and never will happen.

GrimAtrament said:


you can literally check on MAL top airing. what you mean source? neither of you provided a source so I assume you are talking about on this site.




people said the same thing about Nanoha
before this official art dropped.

MAL_mashu said:

I’ve only watch Nanoha ViVid but it was pretty obvious that was a lesbian relationship when Vivio talks about her “two moms”

GrimAtrament said:


you can literally check on MAL top airing. what you mean source? neither of you provided a source so I assume you are talking about on this site.




people said the same thing about Nanoha
before this official art dropped.

steely2017 said:
agreed this Shaw has a cool concept and good story but chisato and takina have ruined for me, the only reason i'am still watching is majima

SkyhighCFC said:


Maybe YOU should do your research, because on multiple sources (such as ABEMA) it shows that COTE is the #1 most watched anime from this season. It shocked me too, but it's clearly COTE.

ACasualViewer said:


You're all wrong, One Piece has the most viewers this season on Japanese TV, like pretty much every season except when Demon Slayer is on.

Secret333 said:
I know fully well how many people love this character, so I am fully prepared to qualify that statement.
Full spoilers and a longish read ahead. You can skip to the last paragraph for a tldr.

If we first try to describe Chisato, she's an upbeat lycoris who used to work for the DA, now trying to find the person who gave her a second chance in life by replacing her weak heart with a mechanical one. She's the best lycoris ever, owing to her supernatural ability to dodge bullets that she had from birth, but she never wants to take away people's lives, so she uses non-lethal bullets, and goes out of her way to make sure the people she fights do not die, not even by friendly fire from their comrades.

Ignoring the mechanics of how anything I said above works, here are what I consider to be the moments that weaken or destroy her character:

1. Episode 6 starts with Takina telling Chisato that 4 lycorises lost their lives. Chisato's response to this is very careless, and it's clear she doesn't even give a shit. A moment later she's all smiles because "Takina is gonna live with me, yay!". A normal person would've had a more serious reaction to that, but Chisato should've had an even bigger reaction because of much she values people's lives, and she grew in the same environment that the dead lycorises grew up in. She recieved the same brutal training in her childhood, so the tragedy of their wasted lives should've hit her harder but no, no signs of fucks given here.
2. In episode 8 she talks with the terrorist that killed those 4 lycorises, tried to kill her two episodes ago, and massacred an entire police department who were all innocent people. We know he can't hit her with the gun, he even puts it down. Does she try to stop him? arrest him? anything? nope. he can just go away and enact his plan that leads to even more people dying. Great job Chisato!
3. In episode 9 she just straight up shoots at innocent civilians at a highway, making them lose control of their car. She's just very lucky that that didn't cause an accident that lead to them + anyone else on the road dying. Fucking Mizuki's reaction to this is also of someone who doesn't give a fuck about people's lives. "But she was dealing with a lot and she was sad at that time, that scene is there to show us that she's not herself" is a defense that someone might try. The problem is this betrays her character, her morals, and just normal common sense. I can't believe this needs to be said but you can't just shoot at people just because you're sad. And does she look back at this regretfully? nope. Zero introspection and zero acknowledgement that she endangered innocent lives. This scene reminds me of that deleted scene from Captain Marvel, if anyone knows that one.
4. Again in episode 9, when Kusonoki questions her on letting Majima go, her response is "it's not my job". Forget about what's ethical, forget about what any normal decent human being would've done if they knew someone is a terrorist and they have the ability to stop them. She gives the stupidest excuse I've ever seen and dumbass Kusonoki doesn't say anything to that.
5. In episode 10, when she finds out Mizuki and Kurumi are looking for a way to save her, she decides to close down the cafe because "I can't have you guys wasting time worrying about me". This is just selfishness. It would weigh too much on her conciouseness to have them there trying to help her, so she's just gonna force them to leave their lives in Japan and move countires on her whim. And the two dumbfucks don't even argue back against that. No speech about how much she means to them or any kind of friendship speech that actually would've been appropriate for that moment because those two are nothing but glorified plot devices.
6. This point is less of a character thing, I just wanted to point this out because it's funny. At the end of episode 11, when Majima is shooting at her and Takina, she uses her bullet proof bag to block the bullets. She did that a lot and blocked a lot of bullets, but 1 bullet just knocks the bag out of her hand and so far away it falls down out of reach. The bullet didn't even hit her hand. This is funny because had she not lost that bag there, she could've just blocked Yoshi's bullets in episode 12 when he was shooting Takina, effectively bailing her out of making the choice. I guess the writers realized this and decided that the best solution is: "uuhh she just loosens her grip on the bag and loses it. Genius!". This is just lazy writing at its finest.
7. Chisato let Takina die in episode 12. That's the truth. When that lady who works for Yoshi was charging at Takina to kill her, Chisato didn't try to stop her, which lead to Takina falling off the building. Chisato is just very very lucky Takina fell on a beam and was able to hold on to dear life when the expected scenario would be that she falls to her death.
8. Chisato let's Yoshi go free. He's the guy who funded the terrorists and lead to so many innocents dying, and tried to kill her friend, but no. He gets to go because she can't kill him. So she just can't tie him up with her convenient gun that ties people up? She can't go after him after she calmed Takina down? Nah because we let terrorist funders go free in this show.
9. The choice is bullshit. She fired a real bullet for once. Did she actually have to kill someone? No. We can't let the show be too dark so we're gonna bait the choice while having the show bail her out so now she can't learn or grow or develope in any meaningful way.
10. Majima fucking emptied a mag on her friends when they were standing in the elevator. They could all be dead if it wasn't for Fuki's quick thinking. How does she respond to that happening? She doesn't. She lets it happen and then confronts him with "Yo.". I have to assume this is planned and they're gonna do something together next episode but fucking hell, lucky none of your friends were hurt in this stunt, huh Chisato?

And all of this doesn't include her constantly shifting power levels, the uncharacteristic stupid decisions she makes, how she never wonders if people could've been saved if she killed Majima in the tower incident (The most obvious question she should be asking herself). But this thread is long enough already.

I made this thread because while I always criticized other aspects of the writing, I don't think I went too deep into characters because there was always the chance they'd develope in a good way. I don't see that happening with episode 13 but I would happily eat my words if it proved me wrong. Characters is usually the thing people point to for this show but the characters are as terrible as the rest of the show. This is a 2/10 show on a good day.

If you asked the writers to describe Chisato, I don't think any of the above would come up. It really feels like the writers ignore innocent lives and have no awareness of the implications of the decisions the characters make or do not make. But the unfortunate reality is this:

Tldr; Chisato is an extremely selfish, immoral character that can be as compitent or as incompitent as the writing needs. She doesn't want to kill people with her own hands, but gives no fucks about people dying if she's not holding the gun. She forces others to follow her whims and desires and they rarely question her. She has no compelling developement or struggle. Chisato is not a waifu bait because a jpeg of a random female character would be a better waifu than this horrendous disaster of a character.