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Kokkoku: Moment by Moment
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Mar 11, 2018 8:55 AM
#1

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Junji really is a freak of nature. His physical transformation made him look different but he's also less mentally human as well.

Pretty tense episode. Using a baseball attack strategy is a bit unorthodox but clever imo. I'm also kinda impressed at how well these characters are developing their powers. I'm really impressed by Makoto this episode especially considering how young he is compared to the others.

Mar 11, 2018 9:41 AM
#2

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Looks like the villain has a history as well, not surprising seeing his behaviour.
The question is what does his past have to do with the current situation and why is he doing the things he has done so far.
Mar 11, 2018 10:29 AM
#3

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Really nice episode. The dad's hoax was found out already, and Makoto did some awesome things to contribute to the problem.

Sagawa is at the brink of not being able to fight back anymore, which is why we're going into his past to see just why he got so interested in the Stasis world. So far we know he had only one friend and the fact that he witnessed some uh unholy actions lol. Honestly, when they ended it with the intercourse thing, it kinda made me laugh but just wonder how that effected him.

Overall really good episode, 2 episodes left... We're reaching the end. Next episode will probably be all of his backstory then last episode will be wrapped up with maybe Sagawa getting Juri out? Idk. Let's just see till the end.
Mar 11, 2018 10:35 AM
#4

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2762
This episode was okay. Makoto controlling the Herald to fight against Junji was pretty cool. They had a chance to take him out, but decided not to smh. At least we got to know about his backstory, not all of it anyway. He saw his parents having intercourse lol. I wonder how that affected him.
Mar 11, 2018 10:55 AM
#5

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Well it's Sagawa backstory time! Definitely wasn't expecting that, but I guess it makes sense. And after a pretty fun little battle too. Can't help but find this digression from that somewhat odd, unless there isn't gonna be anymore actual physical confrontations now or anything. Honestly I'm not sure what I'm expecting as we, presumably, near the finale, but guess we'll see.
Mar 11, 2018 11:11 AM
#6

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They beat sagawa up and makoto found out but he retreats.
Sagawa going into flashback mode now.
Mar 11, 2018 11:22 AM
#7
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im glad battletoads finally got an anime adaptation
Mar 11, 2018 11:43 AM
#8
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BlackstarFallen said:
He saw his parents having intercourse lol. I wonder how that affected him.

The father is Junji Sagawa's, and the mother is of that only friend of his. Friend's father is a working man and can't keep surveillance on his wife at every moment. Sagawa saw the true impurity that the cult stood for, corrupted and materialistic. And... decided to see whether anything he believed would be worth at the end?
Feels quite tragic, Sagawa was also a victim of a previous generation, and in his beliefs was prepared to murder a child (or was he?)... I can actually picture that in two more episodes (maybe one if they skip the epilogue with others) Sagawa would actually show Juri the way out, but in the last moment would attempt something to completely discredit him and have Grandfather nobly sacrifice himself for Juri and others. Hmmmmmmmm...
Re:formed
Mar 11, 2018 12:26 PM
#9

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Basically he got trauma after walking in his father having *** with his best friends mother. gg.
Mar 11, 2018 1:38 PM

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I'm interested in Sagawa's backstory, I find him to be a pretty interesting villain because his driving point of wanting to see how everything ends is something I think a lot of people have thought about before. Curious as to how all this is going to end.
Mar 11, 2018 1:52 PM

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Well Juri's dad's secret with Makoto ended up being discovered rather quickly. I liked the little battle we got in this episode, and now we're getting Sagawa's backstory. It should be interesting....I mean, it's already gotten off to an interesting (and traumatizing) start.
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Mar 11, 2018 3:16 PM

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I can see why this anime took a nosedive when it came to the score. I honestly had it at around a 9, but the past three episodes...meh I'm just not a big fan of "Well this dude is nuts, im joining you. WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE YOU?...Uh you see this dude??? He fucking nuts!!"

I have it at like a 7 right now. If the dad wasn't around it would be a lot better.

i think just the weird balance of "comedy" and violence is what bothers me. Also the animation has been lacking. Add in random scenes as well. For instance the Doctor asked Majima and Sako if they were coming, and then it just cut to Sagawa in the house. Just felt weird to me.

Basically the only reason I'm going to finish it is to see if Juri does get out. Also who is the catalyst to bring time back to normal? Like if Juri is the only one remaining just the clock start again???

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Mar 11, 2018 3:59 PM
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Nice episode, as it shows Sagawa's (or the Herald's) past. Its interesting what will happened in remaining episodes. Will they be all back in their real world? Hahaha
Mar 11, 2018 5:00 PM

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988
By the size of the oppai of the mother of his friend and how it shaked when she apeared you could already tell where the story was going. uhasuhassaijh omg

Such lame anime..


...
Mar 11, 2018 8:40 PM

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SO Sagawa after being made to look like a god got his ass handed to him.
Mar 11, 2018 10:25 PM

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so sagawa's father was a religous who banged the mother of his best friend

that is probably the most legit reason one can have to hate the world and become a villain
WorthinessMar 11, 2018 10:30 PM
Mar 11, 2018 10:37 PM

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and now we get to see more of Sagawa's past
Mar 12, 2018 3:48 AM

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Only by Mother's tits, i guessed that this was going to turn out to be ntr or cheating and in this case cheating...
gosh.. whats with japanese and their cheating on their partners...
also the actions scenes were pretty good..
Mar 12, 2018 6:16 AM

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97
Hey anime, can you please stop making me hate Takafumi more and more in every episode?
Mar 12, 2018 6:24 AM

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Is there any reason I should care about Sagawa's backstory at this point? No, no there is not.
Mar 12, 2018 6:32 AM

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I just... don't even. What is this story about, again? I'm not sure even the author knows.
Mar 12, 2018 7:11 AM

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I pretty much liked the fight against Sagawa,the coordinated attacks were nice.

Once he was weakened he had to retreat and now we get infos about his past.


The last scene must have been a shock for him xD

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Mar 12, 2018 7:13 AM
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564089
This episode just had me like... What?
Mar 12, 2018 7:19 AM
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I've critiqued many episodes of this trash story on these forums yet all the weebos come in and defend it saying it's good how it is. Now a couple people are coming and and starting to realize that Kokkoku is a mess. It's not even that original if you consider Japanese religious culture. How many episodes did I say that the plot doesn't make sense and is only being pushed forward for convenience? The story is bad, characters inconsistent and stupid, and everything happens conveniently like grandpa being able to always teleport away to safety when he's just about to take a lethal hit, BUT he can't control it well... Come the fuck on.
Mar 12, 2018 1:24 PM

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Ever since Sagawa turned into the hulk this anime have gone downhill...

shiro_kai said:
By the size of the oppai of the mother of his friend and how it shaked when she apeared you could already tell where the story was going. uhasuhassaijh omg

Such lame anime..


...

Man she sure had a huge rack, no wonder she's a slut.
Mar 12, 2018 2:03 PM

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Tenth said:
Ever since Sagawa turned into the hulk this anime have gone downhill...




Nah, for me was when Juri Stolen Neji`s eyes and started using that chidori from Sasuke
Come on, you need at least 2/3 years of sacred training for that..
Mar 12, 2018 2:34 PM

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12524
Liking the episodes more and more...but pretty hard to sympathies with the antagonist I guess
Mar 12, 2018 4:18 PM
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May 2016
1
only the part with Makoto was awesome. other than that was pretty meh.
Mar 12, 2018 8:59 PM
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Jul 2018
564089
Loved the 'strategical' mind game involve during the battle. However the episode ended quite weird cliffhanger lol (imo the episode should have ended by finishing Sawaga's backstory) . Also I don't think there is much left :O

Mar 12, 2018 11:17 PM

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Nice episode! at least we have a bit of comedy from Takafumi!
And in the end they all found-out that its Makoto who is controlling the Herald!
Damn! Sagawa is stronk one vs all! and they're still having a hard time!
So Sagawa childhood past is all about sexual illicit affairs relationship of their parents?!?
5/5.


Mar 13, 2018 11:46 AM
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eedaesung said:
I've critiqued many episodes of this trash story on these forums yet all the weebos come in and defend it saying it's good how it is. Now a couple people are coming and and starting to realize that Kokkoku is a mess. It's not even that original if you consider Japanese religious culture. How many episodes did I say that the plot doesn't make sense and is only being pushed forward for convenience? The story is bad, characters inconsistent and stupid, and everything happens conveniently like grandpa being able to always teleport away to safety when he's just about to take a lethal hit, BUT he can't control it well... Come the fuck on.

U mean Re:Creators doesn't have these issues?

Anyway, Kokkoku is more interesting than Re:Creators personally for me. If I had to scrutinize every show going with your logic.. most shows are trash by your definition. I rather focus on which is more entertaining. For eg; you don't watch an action film and expect good story plot.
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Mar 13, 2018 2:32 PM
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luccide said:
eedaesung said:
I've critiqued many episodes of this trash story on these forums yet all the weebos come in and defend it saying it's good how it is. Now a couple people are coming and and starting to realize that Kokkoku is a mess. It's not even that original if you consider Japanese religious culture. How many episodes did I say that the plot doesn't make sense and is only being pushed forward for convenience? The story is bad, characters inconsistent and stupid, and everything happens conveniently like grandpa being able to always teleport away to safety when he's just about to take a lethal hit, BUT he can't control it well... Come the fuck on.

U mean Re:Creators doesn't have these issues?

Anyway, Kokkoku is more interesting than Re:Creators personally for me. If I had to scrutinize every show going with your logic.. most shows are trash by your definition. I rather focus on which is more entertaining. For eg; you don't watch an action film and expect good story plot.


Re:Creators was always meant to be illogical. Fictional characters have invaded reality. You can't get much more unrealistic than that. Re:Creators never tried to be something it is not. Kokkoku's characters are ridiculous in comparison.

Take this comparison of characters: The magical girl in Re:Creators is deceived by a villain into believing in the wrong side because she's a naive character from a children's show. She uses magical hearts to create huge explosions in a crowded city only to later realize the consequence of her actions.

Now look at the villain from Kokkoku. Everyone boasts him up to be some kind of super intelligent mad strategists who is not only god like in strength, but in foresight as well. Yet, when they put grandpa's blood into the rock, Sagawa leaves the rock undefended allowing grandpa and Juri to warp in and smash the rock. Then chaos ensues and that other guy randomly switches sides on a dime and everyone seems to know what's going on.

Sagawa, god of foresight and religious strength, seriously couldn't see that coming? Not only that, but the whole grandpa teleportation thing is explained terribly. The author should have just made it so the grandpa can teleport where he wants. Don't make it a plot point that he can't control it well, then have every single example in the show of him controlling it well, i.e., being able to escape from lethal attacks within a split second literally every single time. I mean being able to avoid COUNTLESS lethal attacks with precision. That can't be said that he can't control it that well. Remember him and Juri teleporting directly into the house to attack the thugs?

That's my problem with this show. Says one thing, does another. I really wanted this show to be good because there aren't that many mature anime that gets produced anymore and aside from Devilman Crybaby I didn't know of any other Seinen shows this season, but this show tries to explain everything through dialogue, but then gives the viewer a big fuck you by being completely random and illogical.
Mar 14, 2018 1:05 AM
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eedaesung said:
luccide said:

U mean Re:Creators doesn't have these issues?

Anyway, Kokkoku is more interesting than Re:Creators personally for me. If I had to scrutinize every show going with your logic.. most shows are trash by your definition. I rather focus on which is more entertaining. For eg; you don't watch an action film and expect good story plot.


Re:Creators was always meant to be illogical. Fictional characters have invaded reality. You can't get much more unrealistic than that. Re:Creators never tried to be something it is not. Kokkoku's characters are ridiculous in comparison.

Take this comparison of characters: The magical girl in Re:Creators is deceived by a villain into believing in the wrong side because she's a naive character from a children's show. She uses magical hearts to create huge explosions in a crowded city only to later realize the consequence of her actions.

Now look at the villain from Kokkoku. Everyone boasts him up to be some kind of super intelligent mad strategists who is not only god like in strength, but in foresight as well. Yet, when they put grandpa's blood into the rock, Sagawa leaves the rock undefended allowing grandpa and Juri to warp in and smash the rock. Then chaos ensues and that other guy randomly switches sides on a dime and everyone seems to know what's going on.

Sagawa, god of foresight and religious strength, seriously couldn't see that coming? Not only that, but the whole grandpa teleportation thing is explained terribly. The author should have just made it so the grandpa can teleport where he wants. Don't make it a plot point that he can't control it well, then have every single example in the show of him controlling it well, i.e., being able to escape from lethal attacks within a split second literally every single time. I mean being able to avoid COUNTLESS lethal attacks with precision. That can't be said that he can't control it that well. Remember him and Juri teleporting directly into the house to attack the thugs?

That's my problem with this show. Says one thing, does another. I really wanted this show to be good because there aren't that many mature anime that gets produced anymore and aside from Devilman Crybaby I didn't know of any other Seinen shows this season, but this show tries to explain everything through dialogue, but then gives the viewer a big fuck you by being completely random and illogical.

Why would you think Kokkoku is meant to be logical though? The last time I check, Kokkoku was supposed to be fictional scenarios in a reality setting as well.

I think you might feel contrived for the grandpa's power and that's why you can't accept the random explanation. I find it perfectly fine though since they even try to balance and show the randomness differently time to time.

The contrived plotting in Re:Creators was even worse for me to the extent that I had to stop watching and come back to finish most of the time.

Furthermore for me, I don't feel like they make Sagawa feels like a god in the show. The most he might be in my impression is a sage or demigod since he's in between the herald and human being.

1. It's really common for most people to drop their guard once they have achieved their objective, something along this line.

2. I believe 2 and 3 is explained in the show. With Sagawa power, he didn't sense the rest of the group nearby him. He wasn't aware that the grandpa could do that teleportation as well, hence he didn't see that coming. Talking about the grandpa teleportation at this point of time, what's wrong with showing that the grandpa could do that miracle? Human being when desperate can do thing way beyond what they think they can do (similar to 1)(and to elaborate, even more so when it's for yourself or loved ones). And at that time, it was the most dangerous moment / crisis in the entire show for the grandpa.
---If this happens again for the grandpa, then it's not acceptable for me. Using it just once in the show is alright---

3. If I remember correctly, it was explained that the area within the stone was supposed to be dangerous when it got activated. Hence, Sagawa stepped back. Why put himself in danger? What Juri did was another desperate move (wasn't planned - she wasn't even aware that she could land right there). If she didn't managed to do that, not only her grandpa is gone, she herself is in danger as well since she's within the red zone. Human nature in play again.

Human being's will to self preservate and survive is greater than you think. Else why do u think that human being has been on earth for so freaking long while dinosaurs, and etc all goes extinct. Then again like I said, it might feel contrived for some. But for me, I feel that the story did takes measures to reduce that as much as possible so it's not as ridiculous as what you thought (trash????!); just my opinion.
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Mar 14, 2018 4:28 AM

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How long will the Dad continue to suck is the question on my mind now, at least everyone's aware of it now. Anyway, Sagawa has been weakened and now offers Juri a way out supposedly. Honestly, I kind of believe him myself. The situation has changed now, so maybe he's thinking about his own survival through all of this? Guess I'll know next episode.
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Mar 15, 2018 12:34 AM

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Pretty good episode. We're reaching the endgame.
I won't lie though, Sagawa's backstory almost put me to sleep. It's not necessarily bad but it's not very interesting imo. Interested to see how this will all wrap up.
Mar 15, 2018 6:59 AM
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http://news.nicovideo.jp/watch/nw3284063
This anime will end with 12 episodes.
Mar 15, 2018 9:30 AM
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eedaesung said:
luccide said:

Human being's will to self preservate and survive is greater than you think. Else why do u think that human being has been on earth for so freaking long while dinosaurs, and etc all goes extinct. Then again like I said, it might feel contrived for some. But for me, I feel that the story did takes measures to reduce that as much as possible so it's not as ridiculous as what you thought (trash????!); just my opinion.


I'm going to pretend that you just forgot for a moment Darwin's theory of evolution and assume that I am still conversing with a somewhat intelligent individual who just had a slight slip of the tongue.

That might not be the best example but still, it depends on how much you want to accept too. The general audience is not going to take Dawinism into account probably. It can also be why some people who are incurable survive years and years beyond what their doctor told them. They might be desperate because they want to watch their child grow up and for whatever reasons.

I'm not trying to judge but I have a feeling you might be somebody who doesn't like or had a neutral stance for movie like Interstellar because you tend to scrutinize the show.
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Mar 15, 2018 4:40 PM

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I thought this was the first bad episode of the series, personally. Flashback feels random and completely out of place.

Anyway, like a lot of other people in this thread, I knew it was leading up to the father having sex with Sagawa's friend's mother right when she showed up. Looking up to his father as this pure, upstanding figure - the outcome seemed obvious. Especially for a kid, that must have been a shocking thing to see.
Mar 15, 2018 6:23 PM

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This episode was fucking infuriating between:
1: Juri's dad being a fucking tool, omfg he is the most aggravating character in the series by a large margin, and
2: the characters just kinda loafing about when they had multiple opportunities to bumrush Sagawa, especially once he was captured by the Handler.

But I'm glad the series isn't going the whole "kill the villain, save the day" route. Or, well, if it is, then it's taking an indirect route to that goalpost. Kinda like them waiting until everything has settled and having Sagawa reveal his motivations to his enemies late-series rather than inserted randomly in revelation to his pawns early-series. Sagawa isn't a particularly noteworthy villain, but he's not a by the books cliche and I appreciate that.



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Mar 16, 2018 2:15 AM
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Why do we need a background story on the villain's past? Asides that this was interesting to watch.
Mar 17, 2018 6:02 PM

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6196
Wow, that fight was pretty intense.


... um ...
Mar 18, 2018 2:22 AM
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Amazing when starter to eat the other Herald!!! kekeke
Mar 19, 2018 4:28 AM

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11410
The fight was cool despite that lacks of some coherence. First, why nobody attacks Sagawa when he was very weak? Second, i'm tired of the plot armor of Juri. Sagawa could kill her quickly when she was close but nothing happend. Funny that he can harm Shouko in seconds but not Juri. Third, the past of Sagawa was shown too late. 2/5
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Mar 19, 2018 4:32 AM

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shiro_kai said:
Tenth said:
Ever since Sagawa turned into the hulk this anime have gone downhill...




Nah, for me was when Juri Stolen Neji`s eyes and started using that chidori from Sasuke
Come on, you need at least 2/3 years of sacred training for that..


This anime went gone downhill so fast when Juri's powers appeared. Aside from the asspull transformation of Sagawa, the plot armor of Juri is annoying and the 'overpower family' just worse.
NurguburuMar 19, 2018 4:37 AM
All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath.
Mar 21, 2018 1:54 PM
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3802
That was a nice teamwork, Sagawa is finally weakened! Speaking f Sagawa, I don't think his past is really necessary but since we got more insight into his goals. it's ok...
Mar 22, 2018 6:48 AM

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12524
Well the story thickens more…I pretty much hate the father in the story… I guess the grand father is leaving statis world
Mar 22, 2018 3:44 PM

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That fight was so poorly choreographed, it just advanced at a snail's pace.
Mar 25, 2018 8:16 AM

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3537
They made Dad too hateable. A little too stereotypically stupid for such a hyperrealistic(in fantasy anime terms) show

Not exactly well scripted
Apr 9, 2018 9:45 AM

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1167
So, not that I'm complaining, as I'm loving this show.

It just, seems like it doesn't know what route it's taking. They were up in arms to defeat him, had plan and all, finally corner him while he's weak, then it's flashback story time on the final 2 eps :D
Apr 17, 2018 3:57 PM

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So Sagawa's dad used the religion to get girls...
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